The Aftermath

February 15, 2003 5:09 PM

US Plans Post Iraq Liberation Does this point to US Imperial ambitions, or is it what is needed if Saddam is ousted? How does this work with the Liberation of Iraq, and the Iraq Congress?
posted by npost (18 comments total)

Everything and everywhere America does something leads to Imperialism. We took over Germany and Japan, invaded them, forced them to accept a constitution and to work within a democratic framework. And just look how we pushed an imperialistic agenda. And we fought in S. Korea to stave off the northern invasion-a sign of imperialism--and today the South has a full democracy.
No matter where we go and why we go there and for what purpose, it is IMPERIALISM, as in the Marshall Plan, and the record have having given more money for humanitarian aid than any country in history--but another example of imperialism.
posted by Postroad at 5:16 PM on February 15, 2003

Damned Imperialism!
posted by RobbieFal at 5:24 PM on February 15, 2003

Postroad trumps again!
posted by dash_slot- at 5:36 PM on February 15, 2003

An interesting stat I read in the Economist last week: 60% of Iraqis are 100% dependent on their govt for survival

Do we really want this burden? I have a hard time dealing with the fact that my tax dollars go to pay for healthcare for non-citizens in this country, even if they are working in the restaurants I eat in and keep my local economy running. To support an entire nation of folks clear across the globe would stretch my generosity, er, quite a bit further.
posted by H. Roark at 5:39 PM on February 15, 2003

Don't worry, H. Roark, some of those 60% will be vaporized during their liberation. As Uncle Joe famously put it: "Death solves all problems -- no man, no problem."
posted by Ljubljana at 5:44 PM on February 15, 2003

Postroad conveniently ignores decades of fairly brutal South Korean dictatorships only recently replaced by a democracy plus what we did for the post-Gulf War uprisings in Basra after inciting them in the first place: zero, zip, nada.
posted by y2karl at 6:42 PM on February 15, 2003

Overview of Modern Korean History

The Betrayal of Basra
posted by y2karl at 6:56 PM on February 15, 2003

Thanks for the Korea link, y2karl (although those damn title attribute snazzifiers of Matt's popped up and refused to disappear on me again, hiding the comment box).

This recent discussion on Plastic, sparked by this silliness from Glenn Reynolds on whether the US is a new Imperialist was (for me) excellent, and both interesting and educational.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:23 PM on February 15, 2003

Looks like the US plan is a rehash of the previous CIA-sponsored coups in Iraq, just with more firepower: replace yesterday's dictatorial general with tomorrow's. Which worked so well for Iraq.
posted by riviera at 7:23 PM on February 15, 2003

With the amount of oil Iraq supposedly has, it shouldn't be a problem to support most if not all of their citizens with proceeds from their sale. It seems to be the way most oil-rich countries are supporting their citizens.
posted by gyc at 8:04 PM on February 15, 2003

Looks like the US plan is a rehash of the previous CIA-sponsored coups in Iraq, just with more firepower: replace yesterday's dictatorial general with tomorrow's. Which worked so well for Iraq.

See here also.
posted by y2karl at 8:21 PM on February 15, 2003

With the amount of oil Iraq supposedly has, it shouldn't be a problem to support most if not all of their citizens with proceeds from their sale. It seems to be the way most oil-rich countries are supporting their citizens.

Sincerly depends on who gets the profits, now doesn't it. If IRAQ gets the profits from Iraqi oil, then their economy should boom. If Iraq gets the "humanitarian aid" authorized by the conquerors US, while US firms bleed profits from Iraqi oil, well...

Hey, US support and aid works for Afganistan, doesn't it?
posted by Wulfgar! at 8:51 PM on February 15, 2003

Boy, stavros, a picture is worth a thousand words, innit?
posted by y2karl at 11:49 PM on February 15, 2003

Hey, US support and aid works for Afganistan, doesn't it?

Well, German support and aid appears to be doing so. Yeah, those Germans.
posted by riviera at 1:57 PM on February 16, 2003

i thought this nytimes article was pretty interesting:

Almost to a man, these Iraqis said they wanted the Iraqi dictator removed. Better still, they said ˜ and it was a point made again and again ˜ they wanted him dead. The men, some in their teens, some in their 50's, told of grotesque repression, of relatives and friends tortured, raped and murdered or, as often, arrested and "disappeared."

But their hatred of Mr. Hussein had an equally potent counterpoint: for them, the country that would rid them of their leader was not at all a bastion of freedom, dispatching its legions across the seas to defend liberty, but a greedy, menacing imperial power.

˜ nuanced ˜
posted by kliuless at 8:06 PM on February 16, 2003

Speaking of Afghanistan: "Interference in Afghanistan's affairs by all of its neighbors is once again increasing, but while other states--India, Russia, Iran, the Central Asian Republics--back this or that warlord or ethnic group, Pakistan is seen to be once again backing extremists. Pakistan wants to retain a major influence in the Pashtun belt in the south and east of Afghanistan, as millions of Pashtuns also live in Pakistan. But its actions are ensuring that those Pashtun tribal chiefs who have been sitting on the fence since the defeat of the Taliban gravitate back to the Taliban and al Qaeda."
posted by homunculus at 9:45 PM on February 16, 2003

Bush's Presidential Malpractice
posted by homunculus at 10:13 PM on February 16, 2003

My nickname for The Country Formerly Known as Iraq is "Cheneyville".

Kanan Makiya: Our hopes betrayed

The plan is the brainchild of the would-be coup-makers of the CIA and their allies in the Department of State, who now wish to achieve through direct American control over the people of Iraq what they so dismally failed to achieve on the ground since 1991.

Its driving force is appeasement of the existing bankrupt Arab order, and ultimately the retention under a different guise of the repressive institutions of the Baath and the army. Hence its point of departure is, and has got to be, use of direct military rule to deny Iraqis their legitimate right to self-determine their future. In particular it is a plan designed to humiliate the Kurdish people of Iraq and their experiment of self-rule in northern Iraq of the last 10 years, an experiment made possible by the protection granted to the Kurds by the United States itself. That protection is about to be lifted with the entry into northern Iraq of much-feared Turkish troops (apparently not under American command), infamous throughout the region for their decades-long hostility to Kurdish aspirations.

All of this is very likely to turn into an unmitigated disaster for a healthy long-term and necessarily special relationship between the United States and post-Saddam Iraq, something that virtually every Iraqi not complicit in the existing Baathist order wants.

posted by owillis at 10:29 PM on February 16, 2003