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All hail The Ayatollah Of The 21st Century
February 3, 2004 8:12 AM   Subscribe

All Hail The Ayatollah Of The 21st Century Ayatollah Ali Sistani of Iraq is the spiritual leader of the Shi'ia Muslims in Iraq and seems to be a force to be reckoned with as his clout grows. He now has a website and questions can be submitted. We particularly like his views on oral sex:
Question: "I am really sorry that I have to ask this type of Question. But Since I grew up in a western country; I really don't much about our religion. And I can't ask this Question to my parents due to subject matter. Brother my question is, can we have an oral sex before or after the sexual intercourse or can we have oral sex at all? Is it haram? "
Answer: "Oral sex act is permissible with the consent of both husband and wife provided that no liquid gets into the mouth."
posted by turbanhead (37 comments total)

 
Well, he's more liberal than Mufti Ebrahim Desai who advises that oral sex is not permissable although mutual masturbation is allowed, but it's best not to see each other's private parts.

And I christianity had a ludicrous terror of sex.
posted by Pericles at 8:28 AM on February 3, 2004


Good link! Thanks.

Yes, the tendency of Islamic law to legislate on every little detail of life can seem funny, as can its cousin, the Talmud. But let me suggest that that's not really the point here. The tendency of Islamic law to conflate moral authority and poltical authority is part of what gives a guy like Sistani so much clout.

Imagine a fundamentalist government in the U.S. legislating in detail what kind of sex consenting adults can have and imposing punishments for it ... oh, wait, the United States did just that up until 2003.
posted by hairyeyeball at 8:29 AM on February 3, 2004


when a male administers oral sex upon a female, how is it possible that no liquid get in the mouth? methinks the holy man imagines only one form in which it is the male on the receiving end. typical paternalist ignorance.
posted by quonsar at 8:41 AM on February 3, 2004


quonsar: dental dam
posted by biffa at 8:44 AM on February 3, 2004


We particularly like his views on oral sex:

We who?
posted by davehat at 8:46 AM on February 3, 2004


typical paternalist ignorance.

Not that I'm defending Islam by any means, but if I had to guess, his response is a modern decision, and not one passed on through the generations. Therefore, when women have the authority, or gumption to ask, you will see a similar rule spoken.

Islam was originally founded upon a maternalistic society, which was circumvented early in its history. Like all religions, its foundations are rich in culture and require a thorough understanding to enjoy its depth.
posted by BlueTrain at 8:47 AM on February 3, 2004


By "We" we mean the royal "we"
posted by turbanhead at 8:59 AM on February 3, 2004


Thanks for clearing that up your majesty ;)

Fascinating link. The sections on Islamic law are very informative.
posted by davehat at 9:05 AM on February 3, 2004


How about this apparently english -> arabic -> english translation:

Alfred Hitchcock, the famous movie producer said, “The eastern woman was very attractive by herself and this attraction gave her tremendous power. But by taking great steps in bringing herself on a par with her western sister, the eastern woman has gradually abandoned the hijãb; and this has gradually decreased her attractiveness [and hence her power]

I like imagining Alfred emerging from his silhouetted profile, and enunciating that in his stodgy voice.
posted by bendybendy at 9:05 AM on February 3, 2004


I actually used to have coffee with a guy who wrote the ask the mufti column in the newspaper. He used to get some real howlers too.

The best one of these I ever heard went something like: "If I am asleep, and there is an earthquake, and I fall through the floor into the bed of the woman who lives beneath me and land right in her, are we married?"
posted by ednopantz at 9:12 AM on February 3, 2004


1. what if a believer has more than one wife (this permitted), can he do three the same night?
2. what if the guy or babe is gay, is this permissible since certain roadways are a bit closed off for traditonal manner of doing it.
3. Is the woman allowed to swallow or must she spit out?
4. No mention being made, I assume that anal sex (the royal road) is permissible, as it might be with animals, ie, goats and camels and chickens.
5. If either party wears dentures, must these be removed, making things perhaps safer, or is this not an issue.
6. Can toe licking be construed as foreplay leading to oral sex or is that porject a thing unto itself.
7. Do children get taught about oral sex in religious school or do they focus only on the traditional basics, like a stury of Jewish immigration to Ellis Island in the early 1900s?
posted by Postroad at 10:01 AM on February 3, 2004


The mufti says : That depends on what "land in her" means.
posted by troutfishing at 10:02 AM on February 3, 2004


One can engage in oral sex in they do not receive liquid, if the moon has risen and the sun itself not yet risen beyond any visible mountain ranges, if not more than three goats are awake on the immediate (determined by the walk of four geese) premises, if the woman is at least four days removed from menstruation, and if the man involved has not eaten cheese, spinach, or tomato in the last forty-eight hours.

Go forth and be righteous.
posted by xmutex at 10:04 AM on February 3, 2004


What if one of those goats is merely goatnapping ?
posted by troutfishing at 10:23 AM on February 3, 2004


Clearly this guy not only has never given head but isn't even aware how it works (ie, that some fluid is produced almost immediately after full arousal).
posted by billsaysthis at 10:35 AM on February 3, 2004


The best one of these I ever heard went something like: "If I am asleep, and there is an earthquake, and I fall through the floor into the bed of the woman who lives beneath me and land right in her, are we married?"

Well, that covers all the likelier scenarios.

It must be noted that one could make fun of the finer points of disputes in the interpetation of Hasidic rabbinical law, too--there as well you have ancient holy scriptures being interpeted in a later age by contemporary authorities over what seem to be silly pointless issues to non-believers. This is a living religion in the process of adapting to modern times.
posted by y2karl at 10:52 AM on February 3, 2004


Yeah, I think the mufti told the questioner to keep dreamin' pal. It says more about the undersexed/overstimulated questioners than it does about the tradition. .
posted by ednopantz at 11:07 AM on February 3, 2004


Oral sex act is permissible with the consent of both husband and wife provided that no liquid gets into the mouth.

So, wait, this husband and wife we're talking about - I have to go down on both of them? Or, I just need the consent of both to give liquid-free oral pleasure to either?

-- signed, Puzzled But Eager
posted by nicwolff at 11:22 AM on February 3, 2004


Question: Is anal intercourse permissible.?

Answer: Anal intercourse is permissible if wife is consenting but it is strongly undesirable (makrooh).


makrooh is my word for the day.
posted by RylandDotNet at 11:38 AM on February 3, 2004




Masturbation is not permissible under any circumstances.

The Ayatollah Of The 21st Century...my arse!
posted by dash_slot- at 12:16 PM on February 3, 2004


Are there similarly mad teaching in Christian or Jewish sects?

Are you kidding? Of course -- Its the same game of telephone, friend.
posted by Satapher at 12:50 PM on February 3, 2004


Masturbation is not permissible under any circumstances.

yes, but what if you're asleep, and there is an earthquake? :D

makrooh!
posted by kliuless at 1:24 PM on February 3, 2004


have any of you sent in any questions?

;)
posted by titboy at 1:32 PM on February 3, 2004


Are there similarly mad teaching in Christian or Jewish sects?

Are you kidding? Of course -- Its the same game of telephone, friend.
.
Where?
posted by thomcatspike at 1:41 PM on February 3, 2004


Are there similarly mad teaching in Christian or Jewish sects?

The Old Testament has some pretty hilarious things to say about
rape, among other things.
posted by sklero at 2:24 PM on February 3, 2004


hee hee. The Bible is pretty funny.
posted by xmutex at 3:08 PM on February 3, 2004


"Funny" depends on whether you're the one watching or the one doing.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 6:23 PM on February 3, 2004


...until people start taking it seriously.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 6:25 PM on February 3, 2004


Pericles, there is ample "mad teaching" to go around in Christian, Jewish, and Buddhist sects (and probably in Hinduism, Shintoism, Parseeism, and every other major world religion, but I don't know much about them).

You'll be glad to know that Rabbi Dr. Asher Meir thinks that stealing bases is in accord with Jewish law.

According to Brother Buddy Martin, though Christians should avoid mind-reading. And don't even think about getting a cosmetic tattoo.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:56 PM on February 3, 2004


Oh, and the Dalai Lama doesn't think too much of oral sex, either.
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:01 PM on February 3, 2004


Sidhedevil - ( re - "In the same interview, he [ The Dalai lama ] specifically said he was "for" (heterosexual) sex with condoms or the pill. That is, it's fine for heterosexuals to have non-procreative sex, recreational sex -- as long as they go "straight" for it, with no foreplay involving the "hands," "mouth" or "anus." ) - I'm not sure that the Dalai Lama has ever had sex. It's a shame his branch of Buddhism is yoked to these repressive puritanical mores. Blech.

I still, nonetheless, like the Dalai Lama overall. I wouldn't hire him as a sex therapist though.

Gandhi had some odd views on sex, acquired later on in his life, as well. He eschewed carnal relations his long-suffering wife, likening her to a cow (or something like that, though cows of course are revered in Hinduism so that might blunt the marital insult somewhat) and chose to sleep, instead, with young women.......

But only to develop his willpower against temptation ! - He would not, apparently, engage in carnal contact with these bed partners, for he believed that the conservation of his sperm was necessary for reasons of mystical doctrine - celibacy increased his life and spiritual vitality.

I have read that the Mahatma would greet his young bedmates in the morning with such as - "Well, sister, did you have a productive bowel movement ?" . Gandhi had, reportedly, something of a fixation with bathrooms and human waste excretion.
posted by troutfishing at 8:30 PM on February 3, 2004


white bread = evil
posted by Satapher at 9:43 PM on February 3, 2004


Actually troutfishing, maybe discussion of bowel movements is a fairly common Indian pastime? I recently read a novel called Shantaram based on the true story of an Australian bank robber who escaped from a maximum security prison in Oz and fled to India (an amazing read btw, highly recommended). I seem to remember the main character being surprised by his Indian friends' interest in his bowel movements. Must be all those curries...
posted by Onanist at 11:57 PM on February 3, 2004


Whilst we are on this tangent, it is true that Ayurdedic living requires one to maintain vigilance regarding the nature of ones excretia. This may be one of the reasons why it is traditionally normal conversation in India.
It may also be because shits more interesting in India. There are many words for the different types of shite to facilitate discussion, aparently.
I like the tale of Meera Syal returning to India to visit relatives she had never met before. She developed a severe case of Dehli-belly on arrival and had to rush to the toilet when she got to the family home without saying hello. When she returned to the entrance hall the entire family were waiting for her expectantly. Her great grandmother (or similar) whom she had never met before, the maternal family leader, spoke first; Hello Meera, how was your shit?.
posted by asok at 4:18 AM on February 4, 2004


sklero -- Those links were fantastic! There was really a lot of effort put into matching the expressions with the incidents. I particularly like the expression of the slave trader in this one or the look of shock and pain in this one.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:08 AM on February 4, 2004


C_D, I hate to disagree, but this is the best (and it ties into Onanist's and troutfishing's comments above).
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:08 AM on February 4, 2004


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