God's on line 3, Satan's on hold...

February 26, 2004 6:22 AM

God loves Republicans...
Governor Huckabee of Arkansas, while speaking to the Republican Governors Association meeting pretended to get a phone call from God, who seemed really friendly to the Republicans.
Isn't this blasphemous? And why can't I find any other reporting of this amazing display of religious fanaticism in any other outlet of the "liberal media?" [more inside]
posted by jpburns (84 comments total)

Interesting double standard. Just yesterday, the Squawk Radio crowd was excoriating Andy Rooney for the selfsame thing.
posted by RavinDave at 6:25 AM on February 26, 2004

From the Countdown transcript (no direct link, search for "Huckabee" on the link above):

HUCKABEE:  And, you know, God, this is a pretty big event.  We‘ve got a lot of people and I‘ve only got a very short time here.  Oh, you‘ve got all the time in the world.  I understand.  Yes, lord.  And you want me to deliver a message.  And that would be? 

Yes, sir.  Well, we want—yes, sir.  We want to do what‘s right.  And our president does.  And we‘re behind him, yes, sir, we sure are.  Yes, sir, we know you don‘t take sides in the election.

(LAUGHTER)

HUCKABEE:  But, if you did, we kind of think you‘d hang in there with us, lord, we really do.  So...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 
posted by jpburns at 6:25 AM on February 26, 2004

insert mandatory we're on a mission for God joke here


posted by matteo at 6:30 AM on February 26, 2004

... also, in a total sidenote...

I "heart" Countdown with Keith Olbermann. What a clever, fun, and well-written show.
posted by jpburns at 6:31 AM on February 26, 2004

Trying to understand things like this is pointless. Either you get it or you don't. Personally I've gotten over how goofy Christians are long ago. I think the deal here is that Huckabee needs more of a daddy figure in his life.
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:47 AM on February 26, 2004

The madcap antics of religious people, especially the American right wing, has become exceedingly dull and no longer surprises nor amuses me, whatever they get up to. They're all nuts and I really wish they'd go away. However, they will probably take over the world whilst people like me are busy studiously ignoring their bizarre behaviour... it's all part of their master plan, I'm sure.

(on preview - what y6y6y6 said)
posted by chrid at 6:52 AM on February 26, 2004

Isn't this the same governor Huckabee who congratulated Canada on preserving our national igloo (video)?
posted by dotComrade at 6:55 AM on February 26, 2004

In the small Idaho town where I grew up there was a family--they were smack dab in the middle of the televangelist target demographic of uneducated and poor--who got a phone call from God and packed up and moved away to I forget where to preach His word. I assumed, as did most people as I recall, that it was someone making a prank call but no one ever came forward. And He is reputed to move in mysterious ways, so go figure. Gee, I hadn't thought about that for years.
posted by y2karl at 6:57 AM on February 26, 2004

Please don't tar all Christians with the same brush! We're not all that arrogant. In fact, I'd say the vast majority of us are rather dull, everyday people.
posted by tippiedog at 6:58 AM on February 26, 2004

I don't understand what's supposed to happen here. Are we supposed to be angry that he "blasphemed"? Or that we have religious nutjobs in office? The former wouldn't bother me unless I was, myself, a religious nutjob. The latter is not exactly news.

Having said that, I get a kick out of seeing people like this embarrass themselves. A big part of the problem in this country, IMO, is that too many people don't ever grow up. They never grow out of their simplistic, childish worldview.

I "heart" Countdown with Keith Olbermann. What a clever, fun, and well-written show.

Should there be sarcasm tags around that? I'm serious. That show sucks.
posted by jpoulos at 6:59 AM on February 26, 2004

What's that Sooty? You think abortionists should burn in hell?
posted by biffa at 7:04 AM on February 26, 2004

who got a phone call from God


one hopes She didn't call them collect -- imagine the phone bill
posted by matteo at 7:05 AM on February 26, 2004

What's the big deal? It was just a lame joke. I'm in meetings fairly often where somebody says, "that better be God calling, " when someone's cell phone starts ringing. Not to mention Bruce Almighty. Goofy religious humor is hardly fanaticism.
posted by monkeyman at 7:09 AM on February 26, 2004

Sorry jpoulos... Should I have added IMHO?

I like the show... you may not...
posted by jpburns at 7:09 AM on February 26, 2004

The God of the Republicans is not the God of everyone else.

The God of the Republicans set up shop in the temple, and the Republican Jesus is out back selling handguns to oilmen dressed in black.
posted by the fire you left me at 7:15 AM on February 26, 2004

I wonder which cell phone company god uses? And what kind of phone?
posted by spilon at 7:16 AM on February 26, 2004

Can't She use the cellphone camera already? I so want to see the pictures of Her new piercing.
posted by liam at 7:31 AM on February 26, 2004

What monkeyman said. I seriously doubt most people there, including the Arakansas governor, actually believed he was talking to God. It was just a really stupid joke...

and, yes, I'm sure many of them do believe God really is on their side, but that's hardly news
posted by Stauf at 7:36 AM on February 26, 2004

Phone call from God... now if it had been collect, it would have been daring!
posted by deanc at 7:39 AM on February 26, 2004

What bothers me more than this are reports that attorneys in the Roy Moore case in Alabama are apparently throwing bible verses at each other while arguing his case (audio link here).

"Separation of church and state never separated God from government. God gives us our rights, the government is there to protect them and if it doesn't, it needs to be abolished."

-- Former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore

Uh, yeah Roy. Some of us don't believe in your magical sky being, and don't believe that it gave us our rights. That's the point of separation of church and state.
posted by moonbiter at 7:48 AM on February 26, 2004

Did Newhart ever pull a "god-on-the-phone" bit in all his routines? I wonder if God mentioned anything about the sanctity of marriage to Gov Huckabee while he had him on the phone?
posted by infowar at 8:12 AM on February 26, 2004

I guess the point I wanted to make is that it scares me to see elected officials taking sides with god, in effect wrapping themselves in the cloak of religion (now there's a twisted metaphor). I'm not a religious person, and it scares me that our country give signs of becoming a theocracy. When did this happen? What does that mean for me and my family?

What really scares me is the critical mass of these kind of stories. Just recently we had:

• That pilot asking Christians to hold up their hands...
• The whole Alabama/Ten Commandments thing...
• Georgia State Superindendent of Schools Kathy Cox's nonsense about banning the use of the word "evolution"
• The president constantly invoking God in speeches...
• People flocking to a movie about a jewish martyr being beaten to death...

I always hope that mankind will progress forward, and become more enlightened as the species evolves, but this kind of thing makes me think that we're all just a buncha monkeys worshiping the monkey god.

Uh... IMHO...
posted by jpburns at 8:13 AM on February 26, 2004

God gives us our rights

Technically, the whole apple thing lost us those rights. Just ask Abel.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 8:21 AM on February 26, 2004

God has to love everybody, even republicans, that's how how got the gig in the first place.
posted by johnnyboy at 8:35 AM on February 26, 2004

As an Arkansas resident, I apologize.

Would it help or hurt to advise all that are Gov is a Baptist Preacher?

Would it help or hurt to advise that he came to office as a cranky Lt. Gov., a Rebup in a sea of 'Crats, who then proceeded to run a defense campaign over the current administration?

Would it help or hurt to explain that he came to the Gov's chair after our then-Gov resigned as fallout from the Starr court's finding him liable for some tax fraud in a biz dealing?

Would it help or hurt to advise that Huckabee is pretty much the poster child for stealth politics? And that his prior background was as a television preacher down around Texarkana?

What if I told you about all the "gifts" he takes from campaign contributors, such as his never-ending supply of new suits? And high-dollar "speaking engagements" at various Arkansas churches?

He's the current golden boy of Repub fundies and there's always a rumor about him being groomed for national office.

Arkansas's a funny state. I like it here, but ... it's funny.
posted by Elvis at 8:37 AM on February 26, 2004

I live in Arkansas as well. Everything Elvis said.

Oh yeah, and I'd add one thing. Huckabee's rise in state politics was kind of linked to him attacking this thing called Governor's School, which takes rising high school seniors and puts them in an environment that encourages them to think creatively and critically for 6 weeks. Huckabee pretty much came out and called it communist and that it turns children gay. Up until him actually becoming the governor, he as a serious critic of Governor's School.
posted by geekhorde at 9:33 AM on February 26, 2004

There's more to this than meets the eye.

Now - given the fact that George W. Bush believes that he was called by G_d to lead America and to also invade Iraq ( and probably to do away with "evildoers" as well - however he perceives them ) this clumsy "phone call from God" prank could even be interpreted (maybe) as a wry commentary on the president.....well, if Huckabee hadn't run the joke into the ground and proceeded to take a crap on it and then dance around in the offal.....

"HUCKABEE:  Yes, sir.  We‘ll pass those good words on.  I see.  You talked to the president and he talks to you anyway.  And we know that.  And we know that—yes, sir.  Take care of the family and marriage and the people of America and all the people and the children."

But there is a method to this madness, I assure you. Look at the meme that Huckabee is reinforcing here with a very few carefully selected words : Republicans/God/Family/Marriage/Defense of 'Morality'/shepherds to the flock/children.....(yada yada). Imagine the last sentence of the above quote inserted into a national address or campaign speech of GW Bush - not too out of place, eh? Not at all. And - as a multipurpose gaffe - it promotes the "kindler, gentler" meme, the theme of GW Bush (and the GOP overall) as the gentle shepherd caregivers working for the Lord by ministering to the needs of the American flock.

Now, imagine the same quote, slightly reworked : relax.....relax your toes, relax your legs....your muscles melt into the couch.....close your eyes.....imagine swelling violins in the background, and a heavenly choir more beautiful than anything you've ever heard over imagined......birds chirp and sing.....you suddenly feel so deliciously sleepy....there's a dove, and also a rainbow !.....imagine that rainbow....imagine following it's gentle, glorious rays and there, at the end of the rainbow, is George W. Bush, his hand outstretched to greet you........you are getting very sleepy....witness the lion lying down the the lamb....George W. Bush......God, family, children......count the sheep and sleep and dream of good and wholesome things.....things and values far from those DEMOCRATS ! What an enticing aura these words spin, a message tailor made to be crammed into the subconscious of the American voting public. As a multipurpose gaffe, it promotes the "kindler, gentler" meme, the theme of GW Bush (and the GOP overall) as the gentle shepherd caregivers working for the Lord by ministering to the needs of the American flock.

I'm not calling these Rovian tactics subtle - I don't think they are to people schooled in this sort of associative linguistic PR - but I'd be very surprised to hear any discussion of this on mainstream media venues and outside of the groves of academe (but you might be able to read it on my blog - if I get my ass in gear and stop pecking away so much on my darling Metafilter

I see a continuity here with Ron Paige's "NEA as a terrorist organization" gaffe ( see here for speculative scenario of Karl Rove selling this sort of scheme to GW ) . Look for many more such "appalling" gaffes by minor players in the Administration and the GOP.

The clincher for this hypothesis of mine is this statement by David Frum, speechwriter to GW Bush and close pal with Richard Perle. A little over two months ago now, on December 13th (immediately following the capture of Saddam Hussein), on his blog at the National review Online, Frum wrote this :

"For now, let’s say that while the President’s opponents have made much sport of the idea that God called George Bush to the presidency, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to doubt that God wants President Bush re-elected."

Now : Frum is the speechwriter most responsible for the creation of the slogal "Axis of Evil". And - although he fell out of the good graces of the Bush Administration for a bit, especially (I'd guess) after this - 'Borger: "According to Frum, the Bush White House is in the grip of Christian evangelism. The first words he hears on his first day at work are: 'Missed you at Bible study' - a rebuke to his new boss, Gerson, from some unnamed Bush lieutenant. Attendance at such sessions were 'if not compulsory, not quite uncompulsory either.'" Frum is Jewish, but he was nevertheless expected to wade through the New Testament with the President.....Frum, who worked with the President for 13 months, says that Bush "believes that the future is in 'stronger hands than his own.'" ' - Frum is evidently now back on the team in some capacity - as a writer/handler to smooth out Perle's rougher edges and sell the "War against Evil" concept, and also to push this PR agenda.

The last attribute I'd peg on frum is stupid. He's a professional propagandist - no more no less. And a very good one at that. So : after reading his remarkable (and little noted) statement on the NRO website, the notion gradually sunk into my thick skull that Frum - and others - could be working a loosely organized PR/agitprop strategy to advance certain memes by uttering such "shocking" things that the mass media would certainly broadcast them far and wide and - in the process - reinforce certain key Rovian themes.

Think about it this way - in the advertising field, the air, TV. and print exposure which resulted from the Paige or Huckabee gaffes (I think Frum's attempt sputtered) would represent, probably many millions of dollars of free campaign advertising.

The US media laps it up, but I've always liked the "planned ignoring" approach to such attention getting behavior. NEVER talk to a stalker...and - in general - it's unwise to acknowledge attention seeking asshats as well : don't feed bears, pigeons, or GW Bush republicans. It only makes them bolder and more pushily aggressive - even violent. Planned ignoring. It works with children, and it should work against this sort of BS as well.

Ahh, but I'm dreaming. The US media is putty in their hands.
posted by troutfishing at 9:40 AM on February 26, 2004

y2karl, that's going right in the bag of tricks if I ever wind up with an evangelizing neighbor. Now I just need to get the phone company to change my caller id display to "Christ, J.H."
posted by yerfatma at 9:59 AM on February 26, 2004

Ahhh....

Christians.

The only group it is PC to hate.

If such hateful things were said about Muslims, Environmentalists or socialists, there would be a great LeftyMeFi uprise about the intolerance and bigotry.

But those Christians... what scum they are, eh?


HypocritFilter
posted by Seth at 10:02 AM on February 26, 2004

I always hope that mankind will progress forward, and become more enlightened as the species evolves, but this kind of thing makes me think that we're all just a buncha monkeys worshiping the monkey god.

Well, we do seem to be right in the frickin' middle of a tidal wave of sanctimonious religious bullshit, whereby those of us who don't subscribe to this sort of discriminatory, repressive and narcissistic rhetoric have to grab tight to something lest it wash us away.

But absolutely, it almost feels as if all this is coming to a head.

And y'know, Seth, isn't the implied superiority of this particular brand of Christianity enough for you? Anyone who insinuates that a real Christian couldn't possibly be a liberal can, frankly, fuck off. That includes Huckabee, if that's what he meant - and I think it was.
posted by kgasmart at 10:10 AM on February 26, 2004

Christians bash everyone else = God's good work

Anyone bashes Christians = hate
posted by RylandDotNet at 10:11 AM on February 26, 2004

Seth: It's like if I was a sensible everyday kind of guy living in Iran, making fun of the crazy fundamentalist neighbours next door, same deal.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:12 AM on February 26, 2004

Anyone bash anyone else = bigotry and hatred

Anyone bashes Christians = enlightenment.

HypocritFilter
posted by Seth at 10:14 AM on February 26, 2004

Equal signs used to express blanket statements on society = stupid
posted by DrJohnEvans at 10:17 AM on February 26, 2004

Seth: We're not bashing _christians_ we're bashing this crazy motherfucker who thinks God is a damn republican for fuck's sake. If I was a Christian I'd be just as bemused.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:18 AM on February 26, 2004

kneejerkfilter
posted by mcsweetie at 10:25 AM on February 26, 2004

Space, feel free to parse it how you like.

But on each of these issues noted by jpburns, and on any discussion that involves Christians, there is an overwhelming anti-Christian bias.
posted by Seth at 10:25 AM on February 26, 2004

Seth,

With all due respect to you, people are bashing Christians because there are Christians in positions of power who are abusing their positions to impose their religious beliefs on others through legislation, governance and rhetoric.

If there were Muslims in power in this country who were doing the same thing, they would get bashed too and there would be no cries of 'You're anti-Muslim!"

As a minority in this country, Muslims are misunderstood and mistreated. Therefore, criticising them is 'politically incorrect' because of their minority status and lack of political influence.

As much as Christians want to decry their 'victimization', they are not victims. They make up the majority of our population.

What you are hearing here are the cries of the dispossessed. Those who are being forced to swallow this crap from those in authority and who don't have the means to bring these self-righteous biggots from power simply because they are in the minority.

Bash on! (and pass the sledgehammer!)
posted by PigAlien at 10:33 AM on February 26, 2004

Jesus, protect me from your followers.

As for the alleged Christian-bashing, I am reminded of a Hawkeye Pierce quote to Frank Burns...

"Frank, you invite abuse. It would be impolite not to accept it."
posted by terrapin at 10:38 AM on February 26, 2004

what scum they are, eh?

well, they are ALL scum, Seth, but the crosshangers live and breathe in vast numbers among us, and actually seem to have attained some positions of secular power from which they attempt to foist their lurid ministrations on the majority of the herd.

now, a real hypocrite would just gun them all down. we right-minded liberty-minded upholders of the democratic principles allow them to exist, and occasionally castigate thier most ludicrous excesses. they are like larry flynt, repugnant but necessary to preserve the ongoing function of the first amendment. but we let them live. and speak. and in huckleberry hound's case here, continue to indulge themselves in thier jesus fantasies even as they engage their own neices in lewd conduct and further dilute any spark of intelligence that may have glowed in them there mountains. i may be misinformed, but it seems to me the christies are the ones who think god is located between the legs of the underaged. see how frequently they commune with him!
posted by quonsar at 10:38 AM on February 26, 2004

The only group it is PC to hate.


nah. hating gays is going to be government policy very soon.

and after all fundamentalist Christians own the White House, the entire Congress, and have very very powerful friends in the Supreme Court.
endangered minority, indeed


*taking Seth seriously, for a once in a while, just to enjoy shooting a few fish out of a trollish barrel*

Seth,
With all due respect to you,
it's not really "due", no. sometimes people willingly waive their right to due respect.
posted by matteo at 10:45 AM on February 26, 2004

Seth, your true colors are showing.
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:50 AM on February 26, 2004

You know, I could have predicted this thread would turn out this way, except I'm not very good at predictions.
posted by Tin Man at 10:54 AM on February 26, 2004

Just so I am clear.


It is acceptable to be Christian, as long as one doesn't act upon his beliefs as a Christian. Because if you act on it, then you become labelled "a fundamentalist" and you might offend someone else who isn't a Christian.

Is that the rule of the game?




(This kind of reminds me of Bowers v. Hardwick - it's ok to be homosexual, but one cannot act upon it).
posted by Seth at 10:54 AM on February 26, 2004

Seth,
With all due respect to you,
it's not really "due", no. sometimes people willingly waive their right to due respect.
posted by matteo at 10:45 AM PST on February 26


Case in point.
This guy is attempting to defend against Christian bashing, so he isn't due any respect. Such enlightenment!

.... And the MeFi circle continues.....


Seth, your true colors are showing.
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:50 AM PST on February 26

And what color is that?

Besides being tired of continual LeftyFilter circle jerks in every thread in the blue... bashing whatever the GroupThink has decided should be bashed.
posted by Seth at 10:58 AM on February 26, 2004

If part of your 'beliefs' is that God supports your political party, then yes, you very much deserve all the bashing that comes your way.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:04 AM on February 26, 2004

If part of your 'beliefs' is that God supports your political party, then yes, you very much deserve all the bashing that comes your way.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:04 AM PST on February 26

What do you care?
You don't believe in God.



Would you care if the same joke was made with Papa Smurf instead of God? To you, they are no different.


And, if these people are correct, that the Christian God does exist, is there any doubt in your mind that he WOULD support Republicans?


It is an amazingly facile argument: I don't believe God exists; I think Christians are crazy for believing so much in God; but I can't tolerate them acting as if their God supports them.
posted by Seth at 11:11 AM on February 26, 2004

Seth,

Again, you have the right to act as you please. As a gay man, I hope I have the right to 'act' gay (whatever that means).

The issue isn't about Christians staying in the closet. The issue is about Christians in positions of power attempting to influence politics and legislation which affects US ALL, including atheists, agnostics, buddhists, muslims and everyone else according to their own religious beliefs which not everyone shares.

The reason Christians are up in arms is because our society is becoming, in fact, much more religiously pluralistic. As Christian's power over our government begins to wane, as it slowly has, Christians will begin to fight to keep the power that was theirs by default.

This is a power struggle, and the people in power are the Christians. People are 'bashing' Christians because they are struggling to take power away from the Christians. It is a war - a cultural war. I'm glad to know what side I'm on and I'm glad to say that in the long run, we're winning.
posted by PigAlien at 11:12 AM on February 26, 2004

HUCKABEE: And, you know, Satan, this is a pretty big event. We‘ve got a lot of people and I‘ve only got a very short time here. Oh, you‘ve got all the time in the world. I understand. Yes, lord. And you want me to deliver a message. And that would be?

Yes, sir. Well, we want — yes, sir. We want to do what‘s right. And our president does. And we‘re behind him, yes, sir, we sure are. Yes, sir, we know you don‘t take sides in the election.

(LAUGHTER)

HUCKABEE: But, if you did, we kind of think you‘d hang in there with us, lord, we really do. So...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
posted by moonbiter at 11:14 AM on February 26, 2004

Where, exactly, did I say what my opinion on the existance or non-existance of a creator God? Oh, I just said I wasn't a Christian, and Seth took it to mean I don't believe in god.

There's tolerance for you. We can all ignore Seth now.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:20 AM on February 26, 2004

It is acceptable to be Christian, as long as one doesn't act upon his beliefs as a Christian...

So you are saying that Christians believe they can call God up on the telephone and pretend that she is in favour of George Bush's policies of divide and conquer in order to raise money?

Wow. And all this time I thought Christianity was about loving one's neighbour as oneself. I am so behind the times.
posted by terrapin at 11:21 AM on February 26, 2004

and the Republican Jesus is out back selling handguns to oilmen dressed in black.

That would be Supply Side Jesus.
posted by homunculus at 11:27 AM on February 26, 2004

That isn't a particulary deconstructive view of my original point Space (and terrapin).

Space, you do not believe in the Christian God. From your perspective, it is no different if they are saying that Papa Smurf favors their policies.

Or try this on side. If Nader was up there saying how Mother Nature called him and wants him to win so that he can implement a ton of Green policies, would you care? No. Because you don't believe in Mother Nature.

Are you really bothered by the thought that the Christian God would naturally support Christians in their work? Are you implying that they are trying to appropriate YOUR god?


And terrapin, how is a Republican saying that the Christian God favors the party that seeks to maintain God's place in society NOT loving one's neighbour as oneself?
Are you suggesting that the Golden Rule requires Christians to surrender to the will of secularists?


The issue is about Christians in positions of power attempting to influence politics and legislation which affects US ALL, including atheists, agnostics, buddhists, muslims and everyone else according to their own religious beliefs which not everyone shares.
posted by PigAlien at 11:12 AM PST on February 26

Can the EXACT same logic be turned against EVERY interest group? Is that not a condemnation of Greens, socialists, tax reformists, muslims, secularists, libertarians, abortionists, rastafarians.... etc. Everyone of those groups is "attempting to influence politcs and legislation which affects US ALL" according to "their own beliefs which not everyone shares."

Here is a hint: people support policies they believe in. Why are Christians more or less worthy of scorn than Greens? They act in the same way, they just worship a different God.

The answer is that, unlike all the rest of those groups, it is PC to treat Christians negatively: bias, animus, hatred, derision, like they are inferior or crazy.
posted by Seth at 11:33 AM on February 26, 2004

And terrapin, how is a Republican saying that the Christian God favors the party that seeks to maintain God's place in society NOT loving one's neighbour as oneself?

When the Republicans also try and amend the Constitution to discriminate against fellow human beings.
posted by terrapin at 11:38 AM on February 26, 2004

Are you really bothered by the thought that the Christian God would naturally support Christians in their work? Are you implying that they are trying to appropriate YOUR god?

Actually I am bothered that Republicans are trying to appropriate THEIR God.

Really believing that god is on your side leads to people doing things like flying planes into buildings and lying to start wars. And if he didn't honestly believe that God was on his side and saying so on the phone, but instead using his belief in God to rally supporters, then that's just a rather scummy thing to do, and not terribly Christian (whatever version of Christianity one subscribes to, most don't call for putting words into God's mouth)
posted by Space Coyote at 11:46 AM on February 26, 2004

Percisely, you people do have a hatred of Christianity. You are mad that they follow their beliefs.


Do you hate Republicans because they are Christians?
Or
Do you hate Christians because they are Republican?


There appears to be a conflation between the two, so I am wondering where the real animus lies....
posted by Seth at 11:53 AM on February 26, 2004

Seth: If Huckabee got on the phone and pretended Papa Smurf had called and told him that he was doing the lord Papa Smurf's will by getting the president elected, we would make fun of him too.

And if the president and the Smurfigious Right were trying to use our tax dollars to support Smurf-based charities, schools and organizations, then a lot of us would be mad as hell.

And if we had judges trying to put giant monuments to the Ten Smurfendments, and telling us that "Separation of church and state never separated Papa Smurf from government. Papa Smurf gives us our rights, the government is there to protect them and if it doesn't, it needs to be abolished" then a lot of us would be a bit worried.
posted by moonbiter at 11:58 AM on February 26, 2004

I wonder if god loves republicans who are also predatory lender who steal poor peoples houses?
posted by specialk420 at 12:00 PM on February 26, 2004

I went to Arkansas Governor's School in 1995 and I didn't catch teh ghey.

Of course my fundie aunts and uncles were pretty pissed about the whole "thinking for yourself" thing.

Here's to James Randi, Koyannisqatsi, and David Hilbert's Hotel.
posted by mbd1mbd1 at 12:03 PM on February 26, 2004

Any time one thinks one has their creator god on their side, it seems to make them a little less concerned with democratic processes, which is ultimately why separation of church and state is so important.

I don't hate anyone. I hate the practice of using peoples faith as a way to influence their political beliefs, and I think someone who believes they speak for God is dangerous, but at the same time rather pathetic.
posted by Space Coyote at 12:04 PM on February 26, 2004

Er, "put giant monuments to the Ten Smurfendments onto state property,"

Oh, and wouldn't you be a bit bothered if the people wanted the teachers in your children's school to lead them to say, every morning "One Nation, under Papa Smurf" as part of a national pledge of allegiance?
posted by moonbiter at 12:05 PM on February 26, 2004

specialk420 - Christians believe God loves everyone... sinners included.


moonbiter - again, how is your analysis different from EVERY OTHER interest group? Greens try to impose their beliefs and have their interests funded by tax dollars. And they do NOT have majority support, unlike Christian policies.

Same with LGBT. But imagine someone being insulting to them.... it would be a LeFt feeding frenzy.
posted by Seth at 12:05 PM on February 26, 2004

you've never answered, Seth:

how can fundy Christians possibly be a persecuted minority since they own the White House, Congress, etc?

how can they be a persecuted minority since their election-year support is so important that your President wants to spray-paint the Constitution with AmericaHatesFags graffiti, just to please them?

what you choose to ignore, in your blatant trolling, is that people here are (for the most part) against fundamentalism, not religion per se. they're against fundamentalism. and theocracy.
but it's probably too subtle a point.

oh, and you long ago waived the "due respect" thing because of your despicable manners.
posted by matteo at 12:08 PM on February 26, 2004

Seth - God hates fags, or didn't you know that?
posted by PigAlien at 12:10 PM on February 26, 2004

unlike all the rest of those groups, it is PC to treat Christians negatively: bias, animus, hatred, derision, like they are inferior or crazy.

ah, we approach the crux! you see Seth, greens and homos and christies are funadamentally (no pun) different. a green acts based on his considered opinions and scientific/spiritual concern for the viability of life on an increasingy polluted planet. and while there remains some doubt, a homo pretty much is a homo out of necessity: choosing doesn't seem to be much involved there. but christies? they make a conscious decision to worship all-powerful non-existent beings who live in the sky, walk on water, make like david copperfield with loaves and fishes. christies *are* inferior - and crazy. the same goes for those foaming at the mouth mohammadans. you see Seth, a man who walks in here criticizing logic and reason because it refuses to talk with, be guided by, and worship ghosts *is* inferior and crazy.
posted by quonsar at 12:16 PM on February 26, 2004

SETH:

Please stop trying to speak for all Christians.

You do not.

Thank you.
posted by geekhorde at 12:28 PM on February 26, 2004

"Is that the rule of the game?"

No. The rule is that when people act like idiots, especially in public, and especially when they're elected officials, we get to make fun of them.

If Christian belief gives your life strength and meaning, then I think that's wonderful. Good for you.

But Huckabee is taking it way beyond that isn't he? He's doing something that even many Christians here think is goofy. So why are we being castigated for joking about his goofiness?

And it is my oppinion that the Christian religion is goofy. I don't expect you to be happy about that, but it is what it is. Opinion. And I don't want you to change. I don't think your beliefs should be censored. But as long as I have to be immersed in a culture that cherishes religious goofiness, I think I should be allowed to make fun of it.

If the various religions would keep their beliefs to themselves, that would be fine. But to a very oppressive degree they insist on making me feel uncomfortable for not being a believer.

So. I make fun of you. You make fun of me. We both understand each other. And we both (or at least I) accept each other's right to believe what we want.

But goofy is goofy. I respect Huckabee's right to believe what he wants, but when he does stuff like this he's fair game. Don't like it? Take it personally? Good for you. I don't like it, and I take it personally when politicians try to push prayer in schools, place religious beliefs in the Constitution, place their commandments in courthouses, paste "In God We Trust" all over the landscape, etc.
posted by y6y6y6 at 12:32 PM on February 26, 2004

y6y6y6:

Amen brother and/or sister.
posted by geekhorde at 12:35 PM on February 26, 2004

it's not so much that WE hate christianity, it's just that WE hate freedom and morality and also want things to go badly in Iraq.

anyways, I'm just glad that it wasn't a democrat. I mean, we're only now getting over the janet jackson thing. can you imagine?
posted by mcsweetie at 12:37 PM on February 26, 2004

Ten Smurfendments! I'm dying over here.
posted by jennyb at 12:37 PM on February 26, 2004

Hi. Me again.

I just want to be clear, here. While I'm not a believer in god, I totally respect the freedom and right of anyone to worship in any way they care to as long as they don't force their religion on others or pass judgment on others. That, in my mind is "unchristian."

I'm no bible scholar, but:
Matthew 6:6
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

I think these folks aren't christians, they're self-righteous pigs who use the guise of religion to pass judgment on others. Jesus would spit on them (okay... he wouldn't, but you get my point...).
posted by jpburns at 12:59 PM on February 26, 2004

Seth - I would just like to say that it's good to see you speaking up more. MetaFilter with no balance is no fun.

"Same with LGBT. But imagine someone being insulting to them.... it would be a LeFt feeding frenzy."

You keep coming back to this point, and I'm finding it a bit wanting.

1) It's not completely true.

2) LGBT folk are routinely ridiculed. Christians? Not so much.

First of all we make fun of goofy people pretty equally around here. Nader, PETA, Dean, etc have all taken a share of liberal pounding over the last few months. And frankly it doesn't matter who we talk about, some here will bash them, and others will get pissed about that. Rather than a feeding frenzy I tend to see more of a spirited give and take. Welcome to MetaFilter.

Secondly - Gays and lesbians are a minority. Christians are a majority. When a monority gets insulted by a majority there is a chilling and intimidating effect. When a majority gets insulted by a minority........... Well, tough cookies.
posted by y6y6y6 at 1:16 PM on February 26, 2004

Protection for and from religion is such a fundamental principle in our country, it's the first thing listed in the Bill of Rights. When any representative of the government acting in their professional capacity invokes religion, they are betraying the ideals this country was founded on.

[Y]ou people do have a hatred of Christianity. You are mad that they follow their beliefs.

Even if that were true, I doubt anyone here would support a constitutional amendment banning Christians from holding public office. That's because we're not bigots.
posted by turaho at 1:17 PM on February 26, 2004

Papa Smurf isn't a Republican. He's clearly from one of the blue states.

HAHAHAHAHA! BLUE STATES! GET IT?!

It is an amazingly facile argument: I don't believe God exists; I think Christians are crazy for believing so much in God; but I can't tolerate them acting as if their God supports them.

I don't care if the guy next door wants to pretend to talk to God, and believes that God shares his political beliefs. When an elected government official does so, it's something altogether different.
posted by jpoulos at 1:44 PM on February 26, 2004

Seth...there are several things that disturb me about your comments.

First your assumption that it is perfectly acceptable for religious groups of any kind to try and enact laws based on their religious ideology. Not only does this violate our Constitution but it corrupts the very foundations of our legal and legislative structure. Religion should not be the basis for politics in our country.

Second that we are somehow intolerant of Christians or Christianity as a group here on Metafilter. I guarantee you we show far more tolerance and respect than sites like the free republic would if I were to show up and start quoting Buddhist teachings. This being said I don't think any of us here bears any animosity towards Christianity or people who have faith in Christ. The real animosity lies when those beliefs and those people try to control, manipulate or otherwise contradict our own freedoms and abilities to have a differing opinion on creation, philosophy and existence.

The Governor of Arkansas is being mocked here for two basic reasons:

1. He seems to suggest that the Christian God only likes Republicans which should be taken as an insult to ANY Christian.

2. He directly suggests that those assembled will try and enact laws contrary to our Constitutional protection of the separation of Church and State. This should be taken as an insult to ALL Americans.
posted by aaronscool at 2:02 PM on February 26, 2004

"The Governor of Arkansas is being mocked here for two three basic reasons:"

Just like Dean when we mocked him, he got up on stage and acted like a doofus.
posted by y6y6y6 at 2:23 PM on February 26, 2004

I'm more curious to know if the governor of Arkansas is fan of Ellen DeGeneres. Anyone else remember her bit about receiving a phone call from God? Skipping over the 'Are Christians mouthbreathers?' arguments, I ask, "Are Christians stealing material from known homosexuals?'
posted by haqspan at 2:51 PM on February 26, 2004

Just for the record - I bashed everyone.
posted by chrid at 3:50 PM on February 26, 2004

Me too. "Lefty groupthink"? Whaaaa? I got yer lefty groupthink right here, ass blanket.

Seth, try not to use words like "deconstructive." They only confuse me. Anyway, just what is your point? Do you sincerely mean to tell me that you feel oppressed by all the terrible, awful freethinkers?

Get over yourself already.
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:51 PM on February 26, 2004

Seth, I don't agree with a single word that you said. But, I have to admit, the discussion got a lot less interesting when you left.

I'd like to see more christians would give their opinion on this issue and other issues like this on Metafilter here.

Whatever happened to 111? He was fun, too.
posted by graventy at 5:56 PM on February 26, 2004

It only takes one Seth to keep between 10 and 20 regular Metafilter commentators mightily distracted.

Energy vampire.
posted by troutfishing at 7:43 PM on February 26, 2004

The whole God-on-the-cell-phone gag was corny, and I could see how Christians might view it in bad taste, but it's pretty innocuous stuff.

I'm more disturbed by Magic Mike's shooting down of a relief bill for tornado victims because he objected to tornados being referred to as acts of God. It's not so much a question of faith as it is one of idiocy, and how some people use the former as a jumping-off point into the latter.

(I interviewed Huckabee-as-Lt. Gov when I worked at a paper in Hot Springs, AR. Struck me as a nice guy, FWIW. One of the questions I fielded was, "How would you compare leading a congregation to holding public office?" Wish I could remember the response.)
posted by luminol at 3:54 AM on February 27, 2004

...view it as being in bad taste...

oops
posted by luminol at 3:56 AM on February 27, 2004

I'm losing track... a priest who rules arkansas got a phone call from a fictional magical being who rules a mushroom town?
posted by snarfodox at 7:05 PM on February 27, 2004