We weren't even supposed to be here!

September 1, 2004 1:49 PM

After swearing off his (five-part) "Jersey Trilogy" forever with the release of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back in 2001, Kevin Smith (already busy with Fletch Won and The Green Hornet has announced that View Askew is preparing a Clerks sequel, entitled Clerks 2: The Passion of the Clerks. The movie "is about what happens when that lazy, 20-something malaise lasts into your 30s." Since many of us were among those the "lazy 20-somethings" that launched Smith's career, this raises a few questions, most of which are inside. The simple one, though, is this: Is anyone still buying what he's selling? For what it's worth, I am.
posted by Sinner (40 comments total)

Then, of course, there's the fact that the oft-criticized (unfairly, if you ask me) Mallrats was largely considered to be the the sequel to Clerks, the lengths Smith went to in order to shoehorn the ensuing three movies (including Chasing Amy and Dogma into pretty tight continuity and the Clerks cartoon semi-debacle. In the viewaskew forums post linked to above, Smith did a pretty good job of responding to every conceivable criticism in advance (he's not doing it for the money, he's not doing it for the cred after Jersey Girl (or "the unofficial sequel to Gigli") flopped, and "it's the best thing I've ever written" (google cache reminds that he said the same about Jersey Girl)). Do you believe him? Will you go? Or do you just not care?

After several days of googling, consideration and fear of "Pepsi Blue" callouts, this post was surprisingly, yet unmistakeably inspired by ParisParamus.
posted by Sinner at 1:53 PM on September 1, 2004

I'm a lazy 40 something now and I can still get a chuckle out of some of the Kevin Smith stuff.
posted by damnitkage at 1:54 PM on September 1, 2004

zzzzzzzzzzz...

uh, whuh? whu haupen? did kevin smith learn how to frame a shot yet? no? then why'd you wake me i go back to sleep fudge love fries zzzzzzz.....
posted by solistrato at 2:02 PM on September 1, 2004

"37? In a row?!" Still cracks me up. < /in-joke>
posted by krewson at 2:04 PM on September 1, 2004

Kevin Smith really fucking sucks.
posted by dydecker at 2:07 PM on September 1, 2004

What he said.
posted by mr.marx at 2:14 PM on September 1, 2004

I think he's great with comedy in many of it's forms, but terribly ham-handed with drama. He just doesn't get the skill of having your characters earn their emotions, his dramatic characters come off as 2 dimensional and arbitrary (just for genre comparison, I think Joss Whedon almost always gets that part right). That's why I skipped Jersey Girl (which really did look too much like Gigli or some Hanks/Ryan crap from the previews) but may be willing to pay up for a clerks sequel or the Fletch installment.
posted by milovoo at 2:17 PM on September 1, 2004

milovoo - your distaste for his "dramatic sense," such as it is, is exactly what bugged me so much about Dogma. I love a good comedy, I love a good think piece, I'm fascinated by religion, philosophy and social criticism and it's a damn shame that you just can't fit all of those things into one movie. Or at least not into Dogma, which felt exactly like he wanted to make a serious movie but with the the training wheels still on. Chasing Amy, on the other hand, did a very solid job with drama, if you ask me. Not flawless, by any stretch, but what is?

I still haven't seen Jersey Girl, though I intend to (grudgingly) . Oh, and dydecker, solistrato and mr. marx - if Smith sucks, who's good by comparison? I'm not playing snarky, I'm genuinely curious.
posted by Sinner at 2:24 PM on September 1, 2004

I think a good script overrules bad cinematography anyday. No one actually says: "This is really funny, but I just can't watch it unless he frames the shots better."
posted by smackfu at 2:27 PM on September 1, 2004

"37? In a row?!"
Now that is a bucket full.
posted by caddis at 2:35 PM on September 1, 2004

Well said stevedave ... sorry smackfu.
posted by feelinglistless at 2:41 PM on September 1, 2004

Or at least not into Dogma, which felt exactly like he wanted to make a serious movie but with the the training wheels still on.

Yup, having a poop-monster kills any possible chance of being taken seriously, no matter how hard you try, the two are mutually exclusive, AFAIK.
posted by milovoo at 2:44 PM on September 1, 2004

I, for one, am stoked to see another View Askewniverse picture. Love em. And if you don't, you are too old, too out of touch, too cynical, etc. etc.
posted by Quartermass at 3:04 PM on September 1, 2004

Oh, and thanks for this great post. It helps soften the blow I took yesterday when I found out about Stephen King's untimely death.
posted by Quartermass at 3:05 PM on September 1, 2004

If Smith sucks, who's good by comparison?

Instead of Clarks, watch Ruby in Paradise
Instead of Mallrats, watch Over the Edge
Instead of Dogma, watch A Man Escaped
Instead of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, watch Pieces of April
Instead of Jersey Girl, watch Une Liasion Pornographique
posted by dydecker at 3:07 PM on September 1, 2004

I like Kevin Smith movies. I liked Clerks, I liked Chasing Amy (even with Ben Affleck in it), I liked Dogma too.

Not everything he's done is worth watching but show me a director who's never created a dog.

And quartermass, are you existing in some alternate universe or are you the only one who knows about King's death?
posted by fenriq at 3:50 PM on September 1, 2004

Am I the only person that enjoyed "Jersey Girl?"
posted by drezdn at 3:59 PM on September 1, 2004

And quartermass, are you existing in some alternate universe. . . http://metatalk.metafilter.com/mefi/8202#166623
posted by caddis at 4:15 PM on September 1, 2004

Kevin makes me laugh and as long as that is the case, I'm dishing him some bucks. Plus, he does that down to earth "I like my fans" thing pretty well (even if it is just for the money). And man, does he tell some good stories.

Also check out MoviesAskew.
posted by sexymofo at 4:41 PM on September 1, 2004

Is anyone still buying what he's selling?

Fuck yeah you fucking fuck.

Am I the only person that enjoyed "Jersey Girl?"

Fuck yeah you fucking fuck.
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:45 PM on September 1, 2004

Chasing Amy.
Just that.
posted by signal at 4:51 PM on September 1, 2004

dydecker: With all due respect, you might as well have said "instead of seeing Kevin Smith movies, you should read books/go for a drive/eat your brocolli/transform yourself into a fighter plane." The point being that you're not coming close to comparing apples to apples.

Perhaps not sufficiently implicit in the question - though you're the only one who seems not to have grasped it - was the idea that we were mostly talking about comedy movies here. Smith's a populist, I'm positive he doesn't figure himself as Altman, Kubrick, Nichols, Hitchcock, Spielberg, Scorcese or ... fill in the blank, really. He fills an entirely different function and provides entirely different sort of product, which doesn't in any way mean he "fucking sucks."

(On preview, sexymofo, "An Evening With..." was great, and I also admire the guy's loyalty to his fans)
posted by Sinner at 4:55 PM on September 1, 2004

You'd BETTER give dydecker his due respect! Look how much more indie (meaning "worthwhile and good") he is!
posted by kevspace at 5:35 PM on September 1, 2004

All you folks (Kevin might use a different word) dissing Kevin on the Internet don't be surprised to see Jay and Silent Bob show up at your door to kick your ass.
posted by caddis at 5:40 PM on September 1, 2004

All you motherfuckers are gonna pay. You are the ones who are the ball-lickers. We're gonna fuck your mothers while you watch and cry like little bitches. Once we get to Hollywood and find those Miramax fucks who are making that movie, we're gonna make 'em eat our shit, then shit out our shit, then eat their shit which is made up of our shit that we made 'em eat. Then you're all you motherfucks are next. Love, Jay and Silent Bob.
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
posted by caddis at 5:45 PM on September 1, 2004

kevspace, your damn right those movies are worthwhile and good. Dismissing them because of some fashion or other is your loss.
posted by dydecker at 5:50 PM on September 1, 2004

I will shove an icepick into any eyesocket you like, including my own, in order to keep Smith as far away as possible from the Fletch series.

Fletch's Won and Too deal with bigger issues that Smith has ever been able to grapple in his movies. The two only work after reading Fletch through, say, Fletch's Moxie to understand his Father Issues. However, once cannot access the series through them first. You need to go through Fletch proper to do that and the Chase version way too much on people's minds for that to happen.

Zack Braff, given some time, could do Fletch over again (direct, not act - maybe he could be Wheeler in Fletch and the Man Who down the road ). Smith is old news and must stay away.

/Fletch snob
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:25 PM on September 1, 2004

Kevin Smith really fucking sucks.

note: dydecker is a possible communist. Although I'll grant you that Over The Edge kicked ass.

I don't particularly care about Kevin Smith's technical abilities or artistic credibility. He's made movies which accurately reflect the cultural and emotional world I live in. For that I love the guy.

Welcome back, Dante and Randal, ya cock-smokin' clerks.
posted by jonmc at 6:31 PM on September 1, 2004

Instead of Mallrats, watch Over the Edge

Over the Edge rocks... one of my all time favs. Good job dydecker.
posted by wfrgms at 8:03 PM on September 1, 2004

Am I the only person [who] enjoyed "Jersey Girl?"

Ebert liked it.
posted by kindall at 8:54 PM on September 1, 2004

Mallrats should have been 60 minutes but besides that all five are rewatchable. A Clerks sequel has the possibility of being really good if it's not just a rehash. Missed Jersey Girl because it was only in theatres here for like a day but I see they are releasing to DVD shortly so I'll have to pick it up.
posted by Mitheral at 12:25 PM on September 2, 2004

Fuck him, fuck him in his silly ass!
posted by Smooth at 12:48 PM on September 2, 2004

Technically Mallrats was a prequel to Clerks. Let's get our facts right okay. I guess people save their venom for duplicate FPPs.
posted by Smooth at 12:55 PM on September 2, 2004

I like films with snappy dialogue - Swingers and Roger Dodger spring to mind - so Smith has a certain appeal to me. However...

I don't understand this love of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. Matt Damon says fuck, Ben Affleck says fuck, that Dawson shithead says fuck, Piedick says fuck, a whole bunch of other people say fuck and there are virtually no jokes. It's even more bizarre to note that Smith thinks the scene where the catsuited girls break in to the lab, is a really good action scene. Yeah, apart from the fact that it's a six minute scene that's five fucking minutes too long. Completely clueless.

And I loved Clerks, liked Mallrats (that bit with Stan Lee is brilliant), really liked Chasing Amy, and only the last half of Dogma sucked. Don't think I'll bother with Jersey Girl.
posted by dodgygeezer at 12:59 PM on September 2, 2004

dodgygeezer -
I have to agree with you on Roger Dodger and Swingers, not to mention the larger "snappy dialogue" comment. Off the top of my head, I'd also have to recommend "Kicking and Screaming." Others?

On the other hand, I really did enjoy J&SBSB - though the lab scene is exactly the embarassment that you described it as.
posted by Sinner at 2:50 PM on September 2, 2004

JSBSB is the roadie movie every guy wanted to go on. With no money and no skills Jay and Silent Bob manage to:

Travel the breadth of the US,
smoke some good stuff,
pick up Shannon Elisabeth,
steal an Orangatang,
and end up with enough money to fly all over and put the beat down on a bunch of people who have been dissing them on the internet. Who hear wouldn't mind doing at least some of those things.

Hands up everyone who would jump at the chance to put the beat down on fool on the internet.

Kevin says on the DVD that the girls were supposed to be more obviously gay but a lot of the development along those lines were cut when he ended up in trouble with GLAAD(?). Even this cut of the movie was only released after he payed them off. He hints the heist scene was impacted.
posted by Mitheral at 3:10 PM on September 2, 2004

I don't understand this love of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back

Well, I lay more straight guys by seeing it with them than without ...
posted by WolfDaddy at 6:23 PM on September 2, 2004

Hm. I rather liked Strike Back -- not to the point where I would feel a compelling desire to engage in gay sex, but I enjoyed the film. Certainly far more than I enjoyed Mallrats, which seemed overfunded and underwritten.

I'm not excited about Girl, and may never see it, but I'll probably watch Return of the Clerks at some point.
posted by majick at 6:34 PM on September 2, 2004

Just saw Jersey Girl - It's good. Not brilliant - not as good as Chasing Amy or Dogma, but much better than most movies made in the United States for a wide audience. It has a somewhat cliched plot (mostly at the climax), which nevertheless still works - you really care about the characters. The child playing the seven year-old daughter is excellent. If you like Kevin Smith films (particularly if you prefer Chasing Amy to Clerks), you should like it.
posted by jb at 7:31 PM on September 4, 2004

/Fletch snob

wait, you mean those cheap crime paperbacks that i enjoyed as a child...? the character chevy chase screwed up...? this is something i can be a snob or a purist over...? cool beans, heh. i don't think kevin smith has the right sensibilities to pull it off, but i'll pay $10 to see if i'm right or wrong.

loved jay and silent bob (booboo-kittyfuck, bwah!), the rest of his movies... meh. (chasing amy made my ears bleed, glad that chick sort of faded into obscurity) i'll see the clerks sequel when it ends up on tmn.ca
posted by t r a c y at 8:42 PM on September 4, 2004