I guess this is what passes for an answer.

May 6, 2005 7:37 AM

"And what do I have to say in rebuttal? Not a g-----n thing." Ajai Raj, the UT-Austin student arrested for saying a naughty word to Ann Coulter, offers his "Open Letter to Anyone Who Gives a Sh*t About Justice." As unabashed and blunt as- well- Ann Coulter, but still admirably less juvenile than other recent commentaries.
posted by XQUZYPHYR (80 comments total)

Yeah, you know what, fuck Ann Coulter.

That's one of the main problems I see in mass media today, who are the liberals that they get on TV, Alan Colmes?

You've got to be kidding me.

When do we get to see Henry Rollins have a conversation with someone like Coulter?
posted by Relay at 8:26 AM on May 6, 2005

At least he admits he was a jackass. There was no crime committed, though, so the misdemeanor charge is bullshit.
posted by graventy at 8:35 AM on May 6, 2005

Relay: "When do we get to see Henry Rollins have a conversation with someone like Coulter?"

Oh, hell yeah. Rollins/Clinton 2008!
posted by Plutor at 8:39 AM on May 6, 2005

What a dumbass.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 8:39 AM on May 6, 2005

That's one of the main problems I see in mass media today, who are the liberals that they get on TV, Alan Colmes?

Alan Colmes is a liberal? Why don't they just call that show "Hannity and his little bitch"? Colmes is ugly, even...
posted by delmoi at 8:41 AM on May 6, 2005

his radio show is mildly interesting.
posted by glenwood at 8:42 AM on May 6, 2005

Sure, he's a jackass, but he's also totally awesome. He's right: what would Ann Coulter say about that anyway?
posted by josh at 8:46 AM on May 6, 2005

Coulter specializes in being an entertainer whose act features "fighting words."

This guy isn't making some whiney free speech argument, he says flat out that if La Coulter is looking for a fight, she can have one. And if the price of admission is a class C misdemeanor ticket, so be it.

It's all pretty crass, but it also seems like the inevitable destination of Coulter's spew. Congratulations to all for setting a new low.

But better pies fly than bombs boom.
posted by warbaby at 8:47 AM on May 6, 2005

I suddenly like this guy a whole lot.
posted by mcsweetie at 8:47 AM on May 6, 2005

I vote for Chuck D.

He's a perfect candidate to go toe to toe with somebody like Coultier, what with the Air America show and all. Plus, he'd have her for breakfast and show her what a brotha' know.

Extra points if Flava comes along.
posted by bhance at 8:48 AM on May 6, 2005

I don't agree with Ann Coulter's viewpoints, but I think she has every right to discuss what she believes. My problem with her lies in the fact that she doesn't want to DISCUSS anything. She just wants an audience to talk AT. Therefore, I think that Mr. Raj was just asking a question in a language she would understand.

Had he said it any other way, he would've been shot down by Coulter. Kudos to him. Made me laugh just thinking of her reaction.
posted by Mrs. Green at 8:49 AM on May 6, 2005

The people that hate her have become her microphone stand for me. Otherwise, she would just be a face in the political crowd than a person who I’ll now extend an ear to. Though only long enough to know what the new issues the left has with her. I can’t think of one person I talk to at my work who even knows her or heard her name and adding some of them fully support Bush.
posted by thomcatspike at 8:51 AM on May 6, 2005

When this passes for best of the web, perhaps we see valid reasons for screening posters at public forums who want to post for no other reason than to vent their liberal frustration.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:54 AM on May 6, 2005

What a dumbass.

That's pretty much his point. He was a dumbass. And a jackass. And rude, crude and socially unacceptable. But that's the only language people like Coulter know. You can't make a mockery of someone who's already made a mockery of civilized discussion.

I'm not sure I'd waste an evening to see Ann, even to ask her about sodomy, but I'm glad someone did.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:57 AM on May 6, 2005

What's with the censorship of "goddamn"?? I actually had to RTFA to find out what it was supposed to be :-x
posted by Chunder at 8:57 AM on May 6, 2005

It'd be interesting if people like this started pulling a Raj at every Coulter speaking event. What, really, would she do?

I don't think it'd be a good thing. It'd just get her yet more undeserved attention. But it'd be interesting.
posted by gurple at 8:58 AM on May 6, 2005

What's with the censorship of "goddamn"?? I actually had to RTFA to find out what it was supposed to be :-x

I bleeped "Shit" too. I figured the 99% of MeFi that reads when they're supposed to be working wouldn't want them on the home page. :)
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 9:01 AM on May 6, 2005

I approve of his t-shirt.
posted by Wolfdog at 9:02 AM on May 6, 2005

While I thought this guy was hilarious, we really shouldn't be giving this Coulter person any more attention than she already has. Move on folks, nothing to see here.
posted by sid at 9:05 AM on May 6, 2005

Terrific! I'm going to write a letter to this guy in rebuttal, so we can have yet another front-page thread about this same incident.
posted by soyjoy at 9:07 AM on May 6, 2005

What's interesting to me is that instead of simply ejecting this guy from the event (or escorting him, as he said he was already leaving), they arrested him.
Just as with the RNC protesters last year, the cops likely knew the charges wouldn't ultimately stick, but arrest is an effective way of silencing protest for the duration of the event.
I find this a disturbing trend in a country where free speech is allegedly protected.
posted by cows of industry at 9:08 AM on May 6, 2005

Ajai Raj's analysis of the situation and improvised question is patriotic, inspired, and laudable. His question undercuts the rhetoric surrounding (at least) the neo-conservative attack on gay Americans. It rightly points out that the sanctity of marriage is not an ideal that can be subscribed to but a process that must be engaged in.

What really makes me admire Raj's question is that it points out (from one angle) the hypocrisy of the neo-conservative movement, a movement that now threatens to destroy the rights of many by claiming that extending and/or maintaining those rights to all in fact threatens those rights.

Liberals are minding their manners like good niggers did during the era of Jim Crow. Not until someone thoughtful like MLK, Malcolm X, or Mahatma Ghandi has the daring to deconstruct the very game that's being played will the American Left be able to defend the freedom and well being of all Americans rather than a select God-fearing few.

Here's to all those who have the courage to go beyond the bounds of conventionalized discourse.

And the rest of you? Go fuck yourselves hard.
posted by mistersquid at 9:10 AM on May 6, 2005

Eh, mistersquid? Maybe I'm being obtuse, but how exactly did Raj's question "point out the hypocrisy of the neo-conservative movement"? I mean, he gets absurdist points, yes, but how did it point out their hypocrisy?

As you can find out by reading just about every single MetaFilter thread in the last 3 months, the Right grounds its anti-homo crusade in Leviticus, which talks about lying with a man as with a woman. Fucking wife in ass is, I guess, lying with woman as with man. Yeah, ok, so it's the same plumbing, but if you're going to buy into any of that Biblical literalist claptrap I don't see how you're going to be affected by Raj's question. As far as literalists are concerned, he's missing the point.

Maybe I'm missing something here. Can someone point out to me why Raj's question was somehow witty or intelligent or relevant?

I mean, don't get me wrong. I dig the potty mouth thing. But I think it'd be cooler if he'd said something useful at the same time.
posted by gurple at 9:21 AM on May 6, 2005

mistersquid: Word.
"conventionalized discourse" got us another four years of Bush.
And it's not like any politeness or manners or respect is ever forthcoming from the right...The left lie down, and the right just kicks them.
posted by cows of industry at 9:23 AM on May 6, 2005

I don't know that I buy the whiny, "The cops arrested me, what kind of country do we live in" line - right or wrong, what the hell do you expect - but I really, really like the attitude of someone who responds to Ann Coulter's "fuck you" with, "No, Ann, fuck you."
posted by kgasmart at 9:24 AM on May 6, 2005

kgasmart: I expect to be able to respond "No, Ann, fuck you" to Coulter's "fuck you" and not get arrested.
posted by cows of industry at 9:28 AM on May 6, 2005

I expect to be able to respond "No, Ann, fuck you" to Coulter's "fuck you" and not get arrested.

I expect the charges will probably be dropped. Quietly.
posted by kgasmart at 9:29 AM on May 6, 2005

Can someone please point out what is wrong exactly with anal sex?

/doesn't engage in it, matter of fact, doesn't engage in much sex at all, yet likes to watch movies where it's featured.
posted by jsavimbi at 9:31 AM on May 6, 2005

the Right grounds its anti-homo crusade in Leviticus, which talks about lying with a man as with a woman. Fucking wife in ass is, I guess, lying with woman as with man.

unless, of course, laying with someone has nothing to do with sex. but it's hard to energize the base about cuddling.
posted by mcsweetie at 9:33 AM on May 6, 2005

What I really want to know is, didn't she say *anything*? What was the first thing she said after the, ahem, 'sanctity of marriage' comment?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:34 AM on May 6, 2005

She paused for a moment, to savor the image in her mind...
posted by cows of industry at 9:36 AM on May 6, 2005

Coulter is a commercial proposition. At $30K a show, she laughs all the way to the bank, no matter what happens.

On the other hand, the bozos who hire her are expecting to also make a buck off the gig.

If they get squashed, they lose money. The wingers in my town ate $20K when nobody showed for Ann's hatefest last year. Serves them right.

See this business: ( * ) -- I want you to wreck it

If it becomes a guaranteed financial loss to hire her, then she will be less of a problem.
posted by warbaby at 9:36 AM on May 6, 2005

mistersquid: Hell yes.

I like this unrepentant jackass even more now that I've read his rebuttal. It was absurd, yes, but effective. She couldn't possibly expect something like that.
posted by cmyk at 9:43 AM on May 6, 2005

sure, he's a dumb ass ... and frankly, all the liberal people who lined up to ask her questions they know damn well she's going to dismiss are dumbasses too ... she's not an elected official, we don't HAVE to pay attention to her

this is my solution ... quit watching ... quit paying attention ... if enough people deprive the mass media and their pathetic shills like ann of their audience, they lose power ... read the paper and the internet and turn the propaganda box off

and don't go to speeches like ann coulter's ... a half-empty auditorium would speak louder than anything anyone could say

on preview - warbaby - i'm glad they lost 20k ... that's EXACTLY what needs to happen
posted by pyramid termite at 9:43 AM on May 6, 2005

This reminds me of the law student at NYU who asked Justice Scalia if he "sodomizes his wife," while a small group of students stood outside the window yelling things like "Fuck you, Nino!"
Do these people really think they are improving the situation in this country at all? The only people who will support such behavior are people who ALREADY agree with them.
I basically hate Ann Coulter, but I would have wanted to kick Raj's ass too. And I completely agree that homosexual sexual conduct is a constitutionally protected activity, and I personally support gay marriage. But despite my intellectual support of that, if anyone asked me, in front of my wife and hundred of other people, if I fucked her in the ass, I would be blind with rage, as I think most people would. If I could restrain myself from assaulting him, I would at least want somebody to throw him out. Is this the best way to win hearts and minds? I don't think so.
I also think this is why Republicans have been so successful lately, the rabid knee-jerk liberals who somehow have come to represent the Democratic party have alienated a large part of American society. Most people don't want a theocracy in this country, but they also cannot in their heart support the kind of people who consider themselves heroes for asking a Supreme Court justice, in front of his wife, if he fucks her in the ass.
If we are trying to get the support of the vast group of moderate voters, this is not the way to do it.
Partially because of people like Raj, the Republican party has gotten claim to family, patriotism, plain talk, and good sense, and these values have always been and will always be the most important concerns of the American people.
I think the progressive among us, and the Democratic party, have some serious repair work to do.
posted by banishedimmortal at 9:55 AM on May 6, 2005

The notion that Coulter and other political analysts base their opinions on how much money they may make is something I did not consider until quite recently, but it definitely makes perfect sense as it is even more immoral than actually holding those beliefs.

Everyone is actually just a big happy family underneath the charade and I’m sure this applies to the business world as well as the political one, after all its becoming increasingly difficult to discern between the two. The documentary, or docudrama as Arnie was quick to call it in the 25th anniversary edition released in concordance with his campaign for governor, Pumping Iron is a parallel example. It is made out to seem as if there is an intense rivalry and dislike for the other competitors, but in actuality the bodybuilders are all friends who train together and spend most of their spare time together. Obviously this harmonious way of life does not create the drama needed to harness the interest and money of the general public.

The question that comes to mind is what is the best course of action for the people who see through the smoke and mirrors? There is a very fine line between caring too little and caring too much. My conclusion is that attention needs to be brought to the process as a whole, not the individuals who carry it out.
posted by ttopher at 10:03 AM on May 6, 2005

And Mr. Squid's "The rest of you can go fuck yourself hard" attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. Until you are ready to implement your own personal dictatorship to shape society into a liberal paradise, Pol Pot, we still have to persuade people to agree with what we believe in. Many people (including a young Malcolm X if I remember rightly) believed , and some still believe, that MLK was exactly the kind of "house nigger" you are railing against. MLK tried to persuade the vast majority of moderate Americans, through noble and dignified speech and actions, that things had to change, and we honor him for it. The same Americans, including myself, would never have supported the same basic idea when combined with the "by any means necessary" madness that Raj is inching dangerously close to. But clearly some people have neither the patience nor practicality nor nor perspective for such subtleties. If Raj is what passes for an "effective" and "courageous" progressive today, then you've completely lost my support. But you couldn't give a shit, could you?
posted by banishedimmortal at 10:12 AM on May 6, 2005

what mistersquid said
posted by dead_ at 10:14 AM on May 6, 2005

If we are trying to get the support of the vast group of moderate voters, this is not the way to do it.

But Coulter's vitriol is?

Look, this guy doesn't speak for liberalism - conservatives will try to make that out to be the case, but Coulter's views are a hell of a lot more representative of what the Republican Party has become than this guy's views are representative of the Democrats.

And frankly, if this country is getting to the point where right-wing extremism is just fine but left-wing extremism must be stamped out, then Raj's approach may be the only approach left.
posted by kgasmart at 10:15 AM on May 6, 2005

People like Ann Coulter and Michael Savage are court jesters, buffoons. But a lot of libs continue to take the bait and responding to their often psychotic tirades seriously, which competely distracts them and keeps them from building what they desparately need: a message that connects with more than just a few people.

The likes of Coulter and Savage, I think, need to be treated as Ajai treated them, just to keep the crazy bullshit they spew in the sideshow, so that the adults can focus on the serious issues. Theoretically, at least.
posted by psmealey at 10:18 AM on May 6, 2005

I'll admit that I'm glad he said it. Sometimes the truth is vulgar. However, I don't think we would want to promote this as a blueprint for resistance. I can't imagine MLK or Malcolm or Gandhi, etc. saying "fuck" (in public). On the other hand, words are just words. Perhaps I should just take what I can get nowadays when it comes to resisting authority/Republicans.
posted by crapulent at 10:18 AM on May 6, 2005

If we are trying to get the support of the vast group of moderate voters, this is not the way to do it.

To continue, I think this is EXACTLY the way to do it. If similar things were to happen every time she spoke, eventually an association would be eventually be well founded that Coulter = Nasty/Vulgar (though it shocks me that she has credibility in any circles outside of the KKK). If this goes on long enough, she gets sent back to the margins where she really belongs.
posted by psmealey at 10:41 AM on May 6, 2005

I suddenly like this guy a whole lot.
posted by mcsweetie

Me too.
posted by tizzie at 10:48 AM on May 6, 2005

God bless you lefties. I am excessively diverted by the way Coulter's style flies right over your obsessively literal heads. Hint: she's taking the piss. Always. Of course, accepting that means that ole Raj is more a sucker than a hero. . . .
posted by gsh at 10:58 AM on May 6, 2005

Ohhhhh... She's just kidding. Now I get it! That's really sweet, gsh. Thanks for figuring this out for us.
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 11:07 AM on May 6, 2005

I think just laughing at them would be the best solution.
posted by ttopher at 11:12 AM on May 6, 2005

Hint: she's taking the piss. Always.

I think they said that about Julius Streicher, too.
posted by kgasmart at 11:14 AM on May 6, 2005

Hint: she's taking the piss. Always.

Dude. Catch up with the rest of the class. Everyone knows she's taking the piss (standing up, I imagine). That's just one less reason to engage her on her terms.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:15 AM on May 6, 2005

gsh: you don't get it.

Everyone gets her "jokes." No one takes them literally, even if that's the only way you can understand what's going on here.

She just sucks. It's the kind of "humor" where the "humorist" says something that you agree with and then you laugh. No insight, no argument, no twist, no wordplay, naught but sweet nothings for soothing cretins. It's like the lame "women can't drive" jokes, but instead of women, it's liberals (whoever the hell they are anymore) and instead of saying they can't drive, it's an unfocused and faux-angry ramble that is too holy for any editor to touch.
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:20 AM on May 6, 2005

As a friend of mine just said to me, "she gets off on having people kicked out." It's true, Ann Coulter loves it when her audience can gasp and see who the enemy is, in their midst! They're going to think any attempt to actually be reasonable is stupid compared to her amazing rhetoric. There's really no way to effectively voice dissent or actively engage her in debate.

Coulter spoke near here and I know people who went to see how horrible she could really be, or to try to ask some questions to defuse her rants. It's worthless. The only thing that really works is ignoring her completely.
posted by mikeh at 11:33 AM on May 6, 2005

it's hard to energize the base about cuddling. - mcsweetie

I laughed until my soft drink came out of my nose. Thank you. I needed that.
posted by rush at 11:40 AM on May 6, 2005

warbaby writes " Coulter specializes in being an entertainer whose act features 'fighting words.'"

hehe... sure it's easy to act tough, but it says a lot when someone who does turns into a whiny little bitch the moment someone takes her up on it :-)
posted by clevershark at 11:46 AM on May 6, 2005

or wrecking her puckered brown starfish.
posted by stenseng at 11:49 AM on May 6, 2005

gsh writes "Hint: she's taking the piss."

And all this time we thought she was just into anal sex!

Hint: it's a joke, I know what "taking the piss" means.
posted by clevershark at 11:51 AM on May 6, 2005

kgasmart writes " I don't know that I buy the whiny, 'The cops arrested me, what kind of country do we live in' line"

Hey, it works for college Republicans, doesn't it?
posted by clevershark at 11:55 AM on May 6, 2005

Well, thank heavens you guys get it! I confess, I was worried. So, all this garment rending and pie-chucking is some kind of ironic Foucaultian subtextual analysis slash performance art in order to problematize the signifier. I'll have to rethink now because, yeesh, I wasn't giving liberals any credit at all.
posted by gsh at 12:04 PM on May 6, 2005

Waitaminute... I thought we just thought Coulter was a thuggish fascist asshat.

GSH, don't complicate things with your elitist intellectual-speak.
posted by stenseng at 12:08 PM on May 6, 2005

When this passes for best of the web, perhaps we see valid reasons for screening posters at public forums who want to post for no other reason than to vent their liberal frustration.

Jesus. Give me a break.
posted by ORthey at 12:20 PM on May 6, 2005

gsh writes "So, all this garment rending and pie-chucking is some kind of ironic Foucaultian subtextual analysis slash performance art in order to problematize the signifier."

Cons are so cute when they try to use big words!
posted by clevershark at 12:30 PM on May 6, 2005

I'm waiting for the Right Wing Republicans swim suit calendar, and I'm hoping Ann is the centerfold...

What if three people do it? What if three people walk in, ask Ann about husbands who just $%&# their wives in the #$$, and walk out?

Sorry. If banishedimmortal don't recognize real political activism, then maybe we do have some repair work to do... hell, look around: that's practically a forgone conclusion.

One more note: If you want to stop Ann, you're gonna have to talk loud.
posted by ewkpates at 12:33 PM on May 6, 2005

ORthey, that's a riff on the previous thread on this subject.

gsh, if Coulter's taking the piss, wouldn't she be able to handle hecklers better? Improvise? Riff? Oh, is her game that deep? Right, I'm not sure.
posted by furiousthought at 12:37 PM on May 6, 2005

So Mr. Raj got trolled. La dee fucking da. My first reaction to this story when it appeared was to think that he had been hired by Coulter herself to reinforce her drivel about what a bunch of America-hating loonies us liberals are. I still wonder...

*goes, fucks self hard*

On preview: we can't "stop" freaks like Ann Coulter, but we don't have to help them, and that's basically what Raj unwittingly did. What you can do is put forward compelling speakers who can make a better case, like the aforementioned Henry Rollins.
posted by pieisexactlythree at 12:38 PM on May 6, 2005

What about Coulter versus a couple of war veterans from Iraq, like the ones in Michael Moore's book? Would that be a debate worth watching?
posted by Termite at 12:55 PM on May 6, 2005

I'm waiting for the Right Wing Republicans swim suit calendar
Looking at this list of top polled right wing columnists, you'd have two months. Just paste Ann's picture on your calendar in the April 1st slot.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:17 PM on May 6, 2005

i say she should be asked about ass fucking everywhere she goes. Sort of an Alice's Restaurant for the aughts.
posted by pointilist at 1:31 PM on May 6, 2005

Plutor: "Oh, hell yeah. Rollins/Clinton 2008!"

Brilliant!

I'd vote for that team.

And think of it, what are they going to bang on concerning Henry, that he's loud and obnoxious?

They THINK people like him are drug addicts, but Henry's got the straight edge.

Ian McKay for press Secretary.
posted by Relay at 1:35 PM on May 6, 2005

All you people talking about how liberals need to be sugar and sweet and everything nice all the time can eat my balls.
posted by delmoi at 1:53 PM on May 6, 2005

All you people talking about how liberals need to be sugar and sweet and everything nice all the time can eat my balls.

Is anyone saying that? I must have missed that part of the thread.

If by being "sugar and sweet and everything nice", you mean not acting in a silly childish manner which serves only to make us look like the bufoons the right wants to portray us as, then pass me the barbecue sauce!
posted by pieisexactlythree at 4:08 PM on May 6, 2005

Good for him. If you're antagonizing an asshole, and you think it's merited, then fucking admit and say you're glad you did it. He gets an A+ for Awesome in my book.

But then, I also like that he's wearing a penny-arcade shirt.
posted by shmegegge at 4:34 PM on May 6, 2005

Metafilter: Taking the Piss Through Ironic Foucaultian Subtextual Analysis Slash Performance Art.
posted by ericb at 4:46 PM on May 6, 2005

Priceless.
posted by ericb at 4:48 PM on May 6, 2005

ericb, try this one.
You'll either laugh your ass off or want to claw your eyes out (or both!).
posted by pieisexactlythree at 5:07 PM on May 6, 2005

All you people talking about how liberals need to be sugar and sweet and everything nice all the time can eat my balls.

Shows that your more concerned about your own ego and credentials than in actually getting anything done.
posted by jonmc at 5:51 PM on May 6, 2005

I don't know about that. I think the reason we lost the last election is that we didn't fight hard enough and mean enough.
posted by shmegegge at 11:01 PM on May 6, 2005

i say she should be asked about ass fucking everywhere she goes.
Now that's an idea.

I'd like to see someone with the balls and the money to fight the cops attempting to arrest them in a situation like Raj's. It was an illegal arrest. He was exercising his constitutional right to free speech, they were restricting it.
Get a good enough lawyer and you can put a cop in the hospital and walk. The precedence would make law enforcement all over the country think twice about pulling that "your under arrest...oh well the charges didn't stick" crap to suppress dissent. 'Course it'd take a LOT of money. Hmmmm wonder if Soros is willing to bankroll it.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:06 AM on May 7, 2005

re: Coulter taking the piss

From a Fifth Estate interview:

Ann Coulter: I said we should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity. And the whole topic is getting a teensy bit boring for me.
Bob McKeown: Was that a joke as well?
Ann Coulter: No, it was not. In fact, I think Canada may have noticed this, but by Friday of the week of 9/11, point one and point two were official government policy. [arrogant smirk and chuckle]

If she is taking the piss, she's the reincarnation of Andy Kaufman.
posted by blendor at 7:10 AM on May 7, 2005

pieisexactlythree - laughing my ass off! Thanks.
posted by ericb at 7:29 AM on May 7, 2005

Is Ann Coulter Safe for Children?
posted by ericb at 8:23 AM on May 7, 2005

The latest from Ajai Raj. I was not there as a representative of any political party; I did not come with the intent to protect an ethos or defend a platform, much less to incite chaos or violence. His tone is is more subdued than in it was in the May 5th letter linked in the post.
posted by PY at 4:38 PM on May 7, 2005

The left will never win by being polite and following the rules.

Is this the way to civil discourse? No.

But we needs uncivil discourse on the wings, reminding people that it's ok to call bullshit.
posted by dreamsign at 1:05 AM on May 8, 2005