big box mart walmart
October 15, 2005 12:20 AM Subscribe
Big Box Mart. More info on big boxes. Some rules for shopping in big boxes.
A short history of America before the big boxes arrived.
So what is America actually doing right at the moment?
...Actually 'Lost' is great - and there are a few good movies... Now if only you could make the whole place into one massive film set....
posted by Meccabilly at 1:51 AM on October 15, 2005
...Actually 'Lost' is great - and there are a few good movies... Now if only you could make the whole place into one massive film set....
posted by Meccabilly at 1:51 AM on October 15, 2005
Geez. I guess Wal*Mart really IS the evil empire!
posted by dingobully at 2:55 AM on October 15, 2005
posted by dingobully at 2:55 AM on October 15, 2005
The "rules" link is dead:
The posting you were looking for has been removed from the server.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:07 AM on October 15, 2005
The posting you were looking for has been removed from the server.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:07 AM on October 15, 2005
Whoever wrote those rules should stay the fuck out of Costco. When everyone seems to be in your way, it must be you!
posted by Goofyy at 4:11 AM on October 15, 2005
posted by Goofyy at 4:11 AM on October 15, 2005
Wha? Big Box Mart isn't Costco, it's Wal-Mart. Costco is a great company -- it pays its employees well, sells brand name items in bulk and with a membership fee up front and derives savings that way and not from cheap labor overseas in any way more objectionable than any other store that sells products.
Here's one of hundreds or perhaps even thousands of articles about how Costco is an excellent example of a national chain, very much in contrast to "we'll call immigration on you" Wal-Mart.
posted by VulcanMike at 5:53 AM on October 15, 2005
Here's one of hundreds or perhaps even thousands of articles about how Costco is an excellent example of a national chain, very much in contrast to "we'll call immigration on you" Wal-Mart.
posted by VulcanMike at 5:53 AM on October 15, 2005
And, as with the last Jib Jab animation that was done before the election, they're a place you go for a funny cartoon that plays off stereotypes and not a place you go for social commentary. I'm ususally okay with taking my entertainment and my politics separately (besides on the Daily Show), but somehow when Jib Jab does it, all I can think of is people who think that the military recriuting problem was solved because they saw the news reports without realizing the goals were adjusted and of course the "Saddam was involved with 9/11" crowd."
I'd enjoy their stuff much more if they had credibility past "we make the funny" -- and when I feel like they're making sweeping, even ignorant generalizations, I don't find it funny at all.
posted by VulcanMike at 5:59 AM on October 15, 2005
I'd enjoy their stuff much more if they had credibility past "we make the funny" -- and when I feel like they're making sweeping, even ignorant generalizations, I don't find it funny at all.
posted by VulcanMike at 5:59 AM on October 15, 2005
If Big Box Mart is Wal-Mart, then why did they decide to use an image of a Target store for the outside of Big Box Mart, put the employees in red, made the Big Box Mart red and white... It just seems obvious they're picking on Target in this one. But isn't Target supposed to be cool?
Hell, I guess it could K-Mart, they use red as their color too. But who's seen a K-Mart lately?
posted by aristan at 8:08 AM on October 15, 2005
Hell, I guess it could K-Mart, they use red as their color too. But who's seen a K-Mart lately?
posted by aristan at 8:08 AM on October 15, 2005
Big Box = any store that sucks the life out of small town America and kills local business.
I just bought a vacuum at K-Mart.
posted by Eideteker at 8:22 AM on October 15, 2005
I just bought a vacuum at K-Mart.
posted by Eideteker at 8:22 AM on October 15, 2005
The references to "everyday low prices" and forcing suppliers to make things cheap enough to sell there are specific to Wal-mart. It's unfortunate that they've confused big-box stores (like Costco, an excellent Blue-state company) with the dreadful Wal-mart.
Far from sweeping generalizations, I think they did a fair job of pointing out the problems that Wal-mart causes.
And now that Jib-Bab have improved their animation, perhaps they could work on the rhyming and scanning of their lyrics. Amateurish in the extreme.
posted by QuietDesperation at 8:24 AM on October 15, 2005
Far from sweeping generalizations, I think they did a fair job of pointing out the problems that Wal-mart causes.
And now that Jib-Bab have improved their animation, perhaps they could work on the rhyming and scanning of their lyrics. Amateurish in the extreme.
posted by QuietDesperation at 8:24 AM on October 15, 2005
23skidoo writes " The 'rules' link is dead
"Rules for Shopping in Big Boxes"
Whee!! All of a sudden I'm all for the death penalty.
For the author.
Hi, welcome to the rest of the world. Please get off of your high horse.
posted by Deathalicious at 8:32 AM on October 15, 2005
"Rules for Shopping in Big Boxes"
Whee!! All of a sudden I'm all for the death penalty.
For the author.
Hi, welcome to the rest of the world. Please get off of your high horse.
posted by Deathalicious at 8:32 AM on October 15, 2005
Work on the following premesis:
1. All big guys use their bigness to screw over those smaller, those with less or no clout.
2. Some big guys are not nice to their employees. You do not have to shop there...there are alternatives if you want.
3. WalMart is not always inexpensive. Check out their prices for sodas and milk...you must shop around even in that store.
4. Big stores do drive out small places, ie, Walmart, Home Deport, Staples...tradeoff? the prices via big guys usually lower, even at bookstores such as B and N (compared to the small private bookstores). Again, you have a hoice here or to shop online.
5. Figure out what means most to you: social concerns (employee conditions etc), price, bigness, convenience, etc and make your choice. What others do is simply what others do and ought not impact on your choice.
posted by Postroad at 9:18 AM on October 15, 2005
1. All big guys use their bigness to screw over those smaller, those with less or no clout.
2. Some big guys are not nice to their employees. You do not have to shop there...there are alternatives if you want.
3. WalMart is not always inexpensive. Check out their prices for sodas and milk...you must shop around even in that store.
4. Big stores do drive out small places, ie, Walmart, Home Deport, Staples...tradeoff? the prices via big guys usually lower, even at bookstores such as B and N (compared to the small private bookstores). Again, you have a hoice here or to shop online.
5. Figure out what means most to you: social concerns (employee conditions etc), price, bigness, convenience, etc and make your choice. What others do is simply what others do and ought not impact on your choice.
posted by Postroad at 9:18 AM on October 15, 2005
Yeah, I'd like to have the minute or so I spent reading that Craiglist bullshit back, please. What a dick that guy is.
posted by fixedgear at 9:20 AM on October 15, 2005
posted by fixedgear at 9:20 AM on October 15, 2005
It figures I'm the only one who enjoyed the Craigslist piece.
posted by keswick at 9:35 AM on October 15, 2005
posted by keswick at 9:35 AM on October 15, 2005
I'm not worried about the big box marts so much as I am the little boxes. On the hillside.
You know, the little boxes made of ticky tacky.
posted by maxsparber at 9:46 AM on October 15, 2005
You know, the little boxes made of ticky tacky.
posted by maxsparber at 9:46 AM on October 15, 2005
4. Big stores do drive out small places, ie, Walmart, Home Deport, Staples...tradeoff? the prices via big guys usually lower, even at bookstores such as B and N (compared to the small private bookstores). Again, you have a hoice here or to shop online.
But if anything, shopping online increases the problem. If you shop online, there's pretty much just a giant warehouse that it gets sent from, which means more low skilled warehouse jobs and some tech jobs, but that's about it.
As far as bookstores, except on bestsellers and sales items, most physical bookstores sell books at list price. You can pay a little extra at Barnes and Noble to get a discount each year, but otherwise the prices are really the same as other bookstores (except for the sprawling bargain sections). In fact on bestsellers, Target and Walmart usually beat the bookstores on price.
I work for a chain bookstore. I get annoyed by the attitude people have against chain bookstores mostly because mine pays me better than the "independent" bookstore which has 4-5 locations, and which opened a bookstore right across the street from a feminist bookstore, something far more antagonistic than what the chains do (except to each other). I can't complain, because I get better pay and benefits than the "indie" booksellers, the only downside is people seem to assume you have less knowledge about books because you work at a chain.
posted by drezdn at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2005
But if anything, shopping online increases the problem. If you shop online, there's pretty much just a giant warehouse that it gets sent from, which means more low skilled warehouse jobs and some tech jobs, but that's about it.
As far as bookstores, except on bestsellers and sales items, most physical bookstores sell books at list price. You can pay a little extra at Barnes and Noble to get a discount each year, but otherwise the prices are really the same as other bookstores (except for the sprawling bargain sections). In fact on bestsellers, Target and Walmart usually beat the bookstores on price.
I work for a chain bookstore. I get annoyed by the attitude people have against chain bookstores mostly because mine pays me better than the "independent" bookstore which has 4-5 locations, and which opened a bookstore right across the street from a feminist bookstore, something far more antagonistic than what the chains do (except to each other). I can't complain, because I get better pay and benefits than the "indie" booksellers, the only downside is people seem to assume you have less knowledge about books because you work at a chain.
posted by drezdn at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2005
Women and Walmart
WikiWalmart
Krugman on Walmart
Good for jib jab. Sweeping ignorant overgeneralization? Sorry, but I disagree.
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 10:31 AM on October 15, 2005
WikiWalmart
Krugman on Walmart
Good for jib jab. Sweeping ignorant overgeneralization? Sorry, but I disagree.
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 10:31 AM on October 15, 2005
I don't see why the government has fairly firm rules against monopolies but no rules against monopsonies like wal*mart, I don't have a problem with wal*mart having a very efficient infrastructure that cuts costs, but when a retailer grows big enough that it is able to threaten a producer with not marketing its items in exchange for very low wholesale prices that's a problem.
posted by I Foody at 10:51 AM on October 15, 2005
posted by I Foody at 10:51 AM on October 15, 2005
I own some Wal-Mart stock. *big evil grin*
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 12:14 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 12:14 PM on October 15, 2005
If people are so concerned about small mom & pop stores, they'd actually shop there instead of Wal*Mart.
posted by gyc at 1:08 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by gyc at 1:08 PM on October 15, 2005
One thing is technical production and distribution efficiency , another economic one, another financial one.
One is distributing the earned money (wealth) in a efficient way (leading to stabilization of workers buying power), another is choosing to just hoard money and run away leaving the workforce to deal with the problems.
Welcome to the world of blind exploitation.
posted by elpapacito at 1:10 PM on October 15, 2005
One is distributing the earned money (wealth) in a efficient way (leading to stabilization of workers buying power), another is choosing to just hoard money and run away leaving the workforce to deal with the problems.
Welcome to the world of blind exploitation.
posted by elpapacito at 1:10 PM on October 15, 2005
Who came up with this idea that Big Box is cheaper anyway? I buy my spices, dry goods, and produce from local markets that are waaay cheaper. I'm not convinced. Meat is all about tunover so I do buy that at the local chain grocery.
Seriously, what is a deal at Wal-Mart?
posted by betaray at 1:30 PM on October 15, 2005
Seriously, what is a deal at Wal-Mart?
posted by betaray at 1:30 PM on October 15, 2005
Wal-Mart is nothing without its consumer base. It matters not a whit to Wal-Mart if jobs are outsourced to China or anywhere else, really -- they're there to sell a product and make money.
The real blame for the "Wal-Mart effect" rests squarely with people who shop there -- you know, the "but where else am I going to get a huge jar of pickles for $4?" crowd. It's hinted at in the JibJab video -- but it needs some clarification; Wal-Mart isn't putting people out of a job, idiots are putting themselves out of their jobs by shopping there.
posted by clevershark at 1:34 PM on October 15, 2005
The real blame for the "Wal-Mart effect" rests squarely with people who shop there -- you know, the "but where else am I going to get a huge jar of pickles for $4?" crowd. It's hinted at in the JibJab video -- but it needs some clarification; Wal-Mart isn't putting people out of a job, idiots are putting themselves out of their jobs by shopping there.
posted by clevershark at 1:34 PM on October 15, 2005
I agree it is the consumers. They are willing to save a few pennies, unconcerned that those savings are made possible by cuts in hours, benefits, and work conditions that they themselves would not tolerate.
posted by maxsparber at 2:23 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by maxsparber at 2:23 PM on October 15, 2005
clevershark : your argument putting the blame entirely on the buyers shoulders is very weak, as they wouldn't be able to "shop" themselves out of job without the help of SomeBigBox exploiting cheap asiatic workforce (sometimes claiming the product is made in u.s.a with cheap tricks ...like "forgetting" to mention only a final formal assembly is effectively made in usa)
Similarly one may say that no is forcing the buyers to shop SomeBigBox ; therefore they may as well go shop to AnotherBigBox if they don't want to shop themselves out of job !
Yet those who sustain this free market ideological argument forget that if SomeBigBox can do anything to sustain its profit (including exploiting asymmetries in markets) then buyers and workers can do the same, for istance by organizing pikets or looting stores or manipulating rdif tags or whatever is needed ; if it's far west it's far west for everybody, not just only for BigInterest.
Certainly there are many mafioso organizations very much looking into how to exploit BigBox enourmously rich coffers..maybe if history repeats some of them will join some unions...so that BigBox may need to pay protection money to mafia (quite a bad partner to deal with) to keep union strikes at a bait.
Isn't it a lot cheaper to deal with workers and unions ? Isn't it better to give them money, as they'll spend much of the money in stores anyway ?
posted by elpapacito at 2:42 PM on October 15, 2005
Similarly one may say that no is forcing the buyers to shop SomeBigBox ; therefore they may as well go shop to AnotherBigBox if they don't want to shop themselves out of job !
Yet those who sustain this free market ideological argument forget that if SomeBigBox can do anything to sustain its profit (including exploiting asymmetries in markets) then buyers and workers can do the same, for istance by organizing pikets or looting stores or manipulating rdif tags or whatever is needed ; if it's far west it's far west for everybody, not just only for BigInterest.
Certainly there are many mafioso organizations very much looking into how to exploit BigBox enourmously rich coffers..maybe if history repeats some of them will join some unions...so that BigBox may need to pay protection money to mafia (quite a bad partner to deal with) to keep union strikes at a bait.
Isn't it a lot cheaper to deal with workers and unions ? Isn't it better to give them money, as they'll spend much of the money in stores anyway ?
posted by elpapacito at 2:42 PM on October 15, 2005
If Big Box Mart is Wal-Mart, then why did they decide to use an image of a Target store for the outside of Big Box Mart, put the employees in red, made the Big Box Mart red and white... It just seems obvious they're picking on Target in this one. But isn't Target supposed to be cool?
I thought they were just trying to mix elements from more than one, so as not to get sued.
And I agree with prettyboyfloyd. If anything, I thought that JibJab was getting more pointed with their social criticism. They were determinedly "bipartisan" with the election animations, but not here. At the same time, of course, Wal-Mart is a pretty easy, big, uh ... target.
posted by dhartung at 4:01 PM on October 15, 2005
I thought they were just trying to mix elements from more than one, so as not to get sued.
And I agree with prettyboyfloyd. If anything, I thought that JibJab was getting more pointed with their social criticism. They were determinedly "bipartisan" with the election animations, but not here. At the same time, of course, Wal-Mart is a pretty easy, big, uh ... target.
posted by dhartung at 4:01 PM on October 15, 2005
elpapacito writes "clevershark : your argument putting the blame entirely on the buyers shoulders is very weak, as they wouldn't be able to 'shop' themselves out of job without the help of SomeBigBox exploiting cheap asiatic workforce"
Economics 101 = "very weak"? Please. It's tempting as hell to say "well, Wal-Mart's gonna be around whether I shop there or not so I might as well shop there," and true as it might be -- just as in voting, one "vote" or purchase means sweet FA in the grand scheme of things -- that doesn't make someone with that attitude any less a part of the problem.
The vast majority of people just don't have the education to realize that the $4 giant jar of pickles comes at a far greater price than the one they pay at the cash, but that doesn't make them any less a part of the problem either.
If you think going around screwing with RFID tags is going to help the cause, go right ahead. But if in the course of that mission you find yourself walking out of the store having bought stuff, you may not be anti-big box warrior you fancy yourself to be.
posted by clevershark at 4:47 PM on October 15, 2005
Economics 101 = "very weak"? Please. It's tempting as hell to say "well, Wal-Mart's gonna be around whether I shop there or not so I might as well shop there," and true as it might be -- just as in voting, one "vote" or purchase means sweet FA in the grand scheme of things -- that doesn't make someone with that attitude any less a part of the problem.
The vast majority of people just don't have the education to realize that the $4 giant jar of pickles comes at a far greater price than the one they pay at the cash, but that doesn't make them any less a part of the problem either.
If you think going around screwing with RFID tags is going to help the cause, go right ahead. But if in the course of that mission you find yourself walking out of the store having bought stuff, you may not be anti-big box warrior you fancy yourself to be.
posted by clevershark at 4:47 PM on October 15, 2005
The Jib Jab was alright, I wanted to punch the central character though. Smarmy cleverness gets old.
posted by fenriq at 6:56 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by fenriq at 6:56 PM on October 15, 2005
fenriq -- I'll second that... who does the guy think he is, Maddox?
posted by clevershark at 7:57 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by clevershark at 7:57 PM on October 15, 2005
They are willing to save a few pennies, unconcerned that those savings are made possible by cuts in hours, benefits, and work conditions that they themselves would not tolerate.
America is really cheaping itself to death. We don't want to pay taxes, so education, health care, and the like suffer. We don't want to pay too much for clothes and knick knacks, so places like Walmart thrive, in turn leading to outsourcing of jobs. We don't want to pay too much for everything so we do all our purchasing on the internet, and everyone starts getting paid peanuts to work in warehouses.
posted by drezdn at 10:57 PM on October 15, 2005
America is really cheaping itself to death. We don't want to pay taxes, so education, health care, and the like suffer. We don't want to pay too much for clothes and knick knacks, so places like Walmart thrive, in turn leading to outsourcing of jobs. We don't want to pay too much for everything so we do all our purchasing on the internet, and everyone starts getting paid peanuts to work in warehouses.
posted by drezdn at 10:57 PM on October 15, 2005
Thank you Clevershark. I haven't walked into a Wal*Mart in over 5 years, but I still can't seem to break the Home Depot habit. They have Sam's Club (Wal*Mart) around here too. (members and friends only) where you can get a whole pallet of giant jars of pickles, and they only cost $1.23 per giant jar that way...
posted by Balisong at 11:31 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by Balisong at 11:31 PM on October 15, 2005
I work for Target at a distribution center. The work environment, pay, and benefits are excellent. I give it an A.
Wal*Mart is truly the evil empire targeted here. The story I hear from their employees is almost always the same: I'm underpaid, kept just a tad below full time so as not to recieve benefits, and the working conditions are horrible.
Also, the low prices don't stay low once the businesses in the area go under. Then, with no competition, Wal*Mart is free to jack them up as high as they want. Some communites turn into ghost towns after Wal*Mart shows up, drains all of the resources dry, and moves on.
Wal*Mart is the largest corporation in the world. They are expanding so rapidly that they open a company the size of Target every year.
posted by dingobully at 2:02 AM on October 17, 2005
Wal*Mart is truly the evil empire targeted here. The story I hear from their employees is almost always the same: I'm underpaid, kept just a tad below full time so as not to recieve benefits, and the working conditions are horrible.
Also, the low prices don't stay low once the businesses in the area go under. Then, with no competition, Wal*Mart is free to jack them up as high as they want. Some communites turn into ghost towns after Wal*Mart shows up, drains all of the resources dry, and moves on.
Wal*Mart is the largest corporation in the world. They are expanding so rapidly that they open a company the size of Target every year.
posted by dingobully at 2:02 AM on October 17, 2005
clevershark:
It's tempting as hell to say "well, Wal-Mart's gonna be around whether I shop there or not so I might as well shop there"
Well ,thanks for futher reinforcing my point that one needs one BigBox asian (or whatever country) exploiter to seduce people into
shopping. Certainly it's tempting to exploit one apparent golden opportunity and nobody is a saint, but that doesn't make that
any less damaging.
By analogy people shouldn't be using addictive drugs like cigarettes or alcohol, yet some of them do and the effects of drugs are certainly very tempting and nobody is a saint...but if they had to cultivate their own plants, filter impurities and all the work by their own you'd see that some would do drugs anyway, but others would give up as it would require too much effort / cost too much or that it would be deadly in many istances.
Similarly, if you bring unstustainable low price to the masses they'll happily buy into the illusion as they may (as well) believe it's made possible by technical advancements ALONE (for instance by robotics). I don't buy into the irrational excuse that Walmart must be free to do
whatever the hell they please because they're selling products and giving some jobs...because by analogy I could do the same with drug pushers, they're selling products and giving jobs.
The vast majority of people just don't have the education to realize that the $4 giant jar of pickles comes at a far greater price than the one they pay at the cash, but that doesn't make them any less a part of the problem either
Exactly, they're PART of the problem but they're not the entire problem. What's the other part ? Hint hint..the pushers.
posted by elpapacito at 6:28 AM on October 17, 2005
It's tempting as hell to say "well, Wal-Mart's gonna be around whether I shop there or not so I might as well shop there"
Well ,thanks for futher reinforcing my point that one needs one BigBox asian (or whatever country) exploiter to seduce people into
shopping. Certainly it's tempting to exploit one apparent golden opportunity and nobody is a saint, but that doesn't make that
any less damaging.
By analogy people shouldn't be using addictive drugs like cigarettes or alcohol, yet some of them do and the effects of drugs are certainly very tempting and nobody is a saint...but if they had to cultivate their own plants, filter impurities and all the work by their own you'd see that some would do drugs anyway, but others would give up as it would require too much effort / cost too much or that it would be deadly in many istances.
Similarly, if you bring unstustainable low price to the masses they'll happily buy into the illusion as they may (as well) believe it's made possible by technical advancements ALONE (for instance by robotics). I don't buy into the irrational excuse that Walmart must be free to do
whatever the hell they please because they're selling products and giving some jobs...because by analogy I could do the same with drug pushers, they're selling products and giving jobs.
The vast majority of people just don't have the education to realize that the $4 giant jar of pickles comes at a far greater price than the one they pay at the cash, but that doesn't make them any less a part of the problem either
Exactly, they're PART of the problem but they're not the entire problem. What's the other part ? Hint hint..the pushers.
posted by elpapacito at 6:28 AM on October 17, 2005
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posted by Malor at 12:29 AM on October 15, 2005