Quitting Drinking Dogmatically

November 28, 2005 4:03 PM

Vandals in suits and bow-ties burned down an Oakland liquor store last night,apparently the same vandals who smashed cases and displays last Wednesday. The police and store owners have suggested they have ties to a local community of Black Muslims. Both stores attacked belonged to the Yemini American Grocery Association and were targeted because they were selling alcohol. Said one store owner: "They asked us if we were Muslim. When we said 'yes,' one of them said that good Muslims shouldn't be poisoning the community with alcohol, or something like that."
posted by ScottMorris (54 comments total)

This happened two blocks from my house. I was in the liquor store the other night arguing with the clerk because he thought my New York ID might be fake. Ultimately, they were nice guys. The whole thing is really odd and horrible to me because the local Black Muslims are targeting Muslim immigrants and acting as religious enforcers.
posted by ScottMorris at 4:10 PM on November 28, 2005

the local Black Muslims are targeting Muslim immigrants

Do they have any evidence that it's actual NOI members doing this? It could be some rouge band of wannabes. This just strikes me as something that would be a PR disaster and the NOI is usually shrewder than that.

But, ultimately, appointing yourself as someone fit to come between grown people and their indulgences is sove heavy duty hubris.
posted by jonmc at 4:14 PM on November 28, 2005

Sounds like the same maniacal Muslim response to a societal problem that eventually leads to blowing up cars in crowded areas or flying planes into buildings. Religious fanaticism is a terrible thing.
posted by allkindsoftime at 4:15 PM on November 28, 2005

the Nation of Islam had reviewed the security tape and cleared its members of any wrongdoing.

But in this neighborhood its all about the community anyway. I'm not saying this comes from Farrakhan.
posted by ScottMorris at 4:21 PM on November 28, 2005

There are at least 2 different prominent Black Muslim groups in the area; and according to the San Francisco Chronicle:

"On Saturday, members of the Nation of Islam joined elected officials and a group representing Middle Eastern convenience store owners to condemn the vandalism."

posted by mistersix at 4:39 PM on November 28, 2005

Though I doubt that ScottMorris is a "relative" of his, this post has dhoyt stink all over it.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:41 PM on November 28, 2005

Deputy Chief Howard Jordan would not say whether a separate black Muslim group based on San Pablo Avenue in North Oakland was under investigation.

That's the more interesting one anyway because it's the one up the street. Most of the newspapers reported that the Black Muslim Bakery was unavailable for comment, which seems to be the center of the Muslim community around here.

And Wulfgar!, what? Why do you say that? Isn't dhoyt the villainous Republican around here or something?
posted by ScottMorris at 4:49 PM on November 28, 2005

wulfgar, it's an interstingly weird story, let's not turn this into another personality conflict.
posted by jonmc at 4:54 PM on November 28, 2005

Sounds like the same maniacal Muslim response to a societal problem that eventually leads to blowing up cars in crowded areas or flying planes into buildings. Religious fanaticism is a terrible thing.

I don't have many good things to say about islam. But please don't start thinking that the NOI is a legitimate offshoot of islam. The Nation is a UFO cult in a half-assed muslim wrapper.
posted by Mayor Curley at 4:58 PM on November 28, 2005

Mr. Morris, if you don't know who dhoyt is, or what he is infamous for, you'd best not be asking silly questions. Dhoyt was an asshole who used multiple personalities to tease the site with vaguely anti-muslim newsfilter posts ... just to get a rise. This seems very much of that sort.

On preview, jonmc, it is a vaguely weird story, very much the sort one might find at the Little green weirdos, but hardly what one would post at MetaFilter ... save to be provacative. I'm not claiming that Morris is dhoyt, just that he's walking in similar moccasins, to the detriment of us all.
posted by Wulfgar! at 5:01 PM on November 28, 2005

More local news on Metafilter.
posted by fire&wings at 5:05 PM on November 28, 2005

Mr. Morris, if you don't know who dhoyt is, or what he is infamous for, you'd best not be asking silly questions.

Say what? Since he doesn't know he is/was, he therefore shouldn't ask who he is/was? Odd.
posted by billysumday at 5:11 PM on November 28, 2005

Interesting post, but a long ways from anything like a trend yet. And it is good to see the NOI joining the condemnation of the act.

(W! and F&W: If this were some a story about some Baptists burning down a liquor store in Oklahoma wouldn't you be all over it?)
posted by LarryC at 5:14 PM on November 28, 2005

Isn't dhoyt the villainous Republican around here or something?
posted by ScottMorris at 5:49 PM MST on November 28 [!]

billysumday; that's a silly.fucking.question. Yes?
posted by Wulfgar! at 5:14 PM on November 28, 2005

On preview, jonmc, it is a vaguely weird story, very much the sort one might find at the Little green weirdos, but hardly what one would post at MetaFilter ... save to be provacative. I'm not claiming that Morris is dhoyt, just that he's walking in similar moccasins, to the detriment of us all.

It was on the National news tonight, too. And there's some questions and issues that the incident brings up; are they from the NOI? If not, then who are they? Are their motivations altrustic, muddleheaded or both? Is it insultingly presumptious for a bunch of self appointed religious leaders to make decisions for a whole community?

Why the hostility towards such a conversation?
posted by jonmc at 5:15 PM on November 28, 2005

Wulfgar!, I apologize, my post seems to be sorely misunderstood. I in no way intended to be anti-Muslim. In fact, as I see it the protagonists of this story are Muslims. They are the local immigrant population that is under victim of these attacks by other local "Muslims" who preach a fanatical version that shares very little but the name with those of the Middle East. I did not mean to provoke anyone.

I posted the story because I thought it was representative of an interesting cultural phenomenon that might be of use to people not living in this area. As it was, one of my links came from the Seattle Times, showing that this story does possibly have more than a national interest. If Muslim immigrants aren't safe from people who even share their namesake, how far can the abuse of this population go?
posted by ScottMorris at 5:16 PM on November 28, 2005

LarryC, no, I wouldn't. Kindly prove your assumption (no sweat, dude. I know you can't. But at least try.)
posted by Wulfgar! at 5:16 PM on November 28, 2005

ScottMorris, apologies. I still have issue with the presentation of this story, but it is possible that you don't view it in the way that I do. I will bow out now.
posted by Wulfgar! at 5:18 PM on November 28, 2005

It's rare that I'll say this, but Mayor Curley is dead-on in his description of the NOI. My buddy Dom was in the first Million Man March, and he said that at first it was positive messages about self-sufficiency, then Farrakhan started rambling about the "Mother Wheel," and Dom was all "Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and step on board the mothership..."

Minister Farrakhan isn't Malcolm X, he's a bush league David Koresh with some political savvy.
posted by jonmc at 5:19 PM on November 28, 2005

This is an odd one -- it seems remarkably unsophisticated, guaranteed to reap bad press and, if religiously motivated, not a very good way to gain converts. Hell, this is Oakland and I'd be stunned if the liquor stores didn't have tenfold as many patrons as the local mosques.

It almost seems more like a plan that a few fundie nitwits would cook up to hurt local Muslims and take out a few bottles of demon rum at the same time.

/tinfoil hat
posted by cedar at 5:19 PM on November 28, 2005

So an alcoholic and a religious fundamentalist walk into a bar...
posted by VulcanMike at 5:38 PM on November 28, 2005

hmmm, vaguely reminiscent of one of the "tribes" from _The Diamond Age_....
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:52 PM on November 28, 2005

Some NOI history here and in the Wikipedia article; their relationship with official Islam is extremely tenuous, as can be seen from the fact that Elijah Muhammad taught "that W.F. Muhammad was literally God in person." I agree with jonmc that this is "an interestingly weird story" and with the poster that it's "representative of an interesting cultural phenomenon." And dhoyt is completely irrelevant here.
posted by languagehat at 5:58 PM on November 28, 2005

their relationship with official Islam is extremely tenuous, as can be seen from the fact that Elijah Muhammad taught "that W.F. Muhammad was literally God in person."

Here's a great article by my main man Jim Goad comparing and contrasting (not entirely unfavorably) Elijah Muhammad & George Wallace.
posted by jonmc at 6:05 PM on November 28, 2005

side note: I am not entirely hostile to the Nation Of Islam. When it came into being, White America needed to hear the shit these guys were saying, even the "grafted devil," BS, even if only just to realize just how angry black people were. I'm nost saying everything is hunky-dory now, but it's definitely a more complex picture than it was then.
posted by jonmc at 6:07 PM on November 28, 2005

Based on folks from the local NOI condemning this criminal behavior, and the folks from Yusuf Bey's group not doing so, this looks much more likely to be a story about a local "Black Muslim" group, not affiliated with the NOI, committing violence.
The story behind that group would've made a better post, and I'm suprised you didn't include some of it, ScottMorris, so as to head off a bunch of talk about the NOI:

"Nedir Bey stalked into the room. Bey is the public face of Oakland's most prominent Black Muslim organization, the man who lobbies the City Council, orchestrates media events, and runs interference for the group's elusive leader, Yusuf... According to Onipede, Bey took out a Beretta 9mm handgun, slid it into his shoulder holster, and told Grant to follow him outside. Onipede's blood ran cold when Bey allegedly pointed at him and issued his next order: 'He said ... that if I leave that building there, they should break all my bones.'"
"Authorities initially wondered if [Antar] Bey, the appointed successor to lead the Black Muslim organization his late father founded, may have been assassinated. Infighting has plagued the group since Yusuf Bey's death in 2003 of colon cancer... Yusuf Bey's reputation took a hit in later years as he defended himself against allegations in Alameda County that he raped young women from 1976 to 1995. Most charges were later dropped, and one was pending when he died."
"'I thought by bringing this business to the Bay Area the needs of the people would be furnished,' said Bey, president and CEO of Your Black Muslim Bakery Inc., a chain of natural ingredient bakeries in Oakland. 'Everything we stand for is serving the people spiritually, physically and psychologically.'"
"The evil old man is dead. Yusuf Bey, the leader of Oakland's largest Black Muslim sect, whose reputation as a community leader survived a long history of violence, racism, and rape, died last week after undergoing surgery to remove a blockage in his colon."

posted by mistersix at 7:03 PM on November 28, 2005

Your Black Muslim Bakery on San Pablo makes great banana muffins.
posted by squirrel at 7:07 PM on November 28, 2005

I saw the local TV coverage, and what the witnesses said, and it certainly sounds like the attack was by some young black males who are nominally a part of -- but not working under orders from -- the Nation of Islam.

This, however, is hardly some new sign of the tehhrahists and their ideology immigrating to the US, though. There's a longstanding, widespread resentment of non-blacks running liquor stores in Black neighborhoods, encouraging crime and alcoholism.

The same expressions of anger against non-black businessmen who run these stores in black neighborhoods were seen quite clearly during the LA riots, and arguably mean less today than they did then.

Nobody in the black community is coming forth to defend these acts, so that's a very positive thing.
posted by insomnia_lj at 7:14 PM on November 28, 2005

This, however, is hardly some new sign of the tehhrahists and their ideology immigrating to the US, though.

who claimed it was?
posted by jonmc at 7:16 PM on November 28, 2005

For reference, I also lived in this area for a while, and the Black Muslim community is both large and visible. They hand out leaflets in front of the Pack and Save a couple blocks from where this happened. There is also weird Black Muslim strip-mall thing on San Pablo anchored by "Your Black Muslim Bakery", which was founded by the same Yusuf Bey mentioned by mistersix.

Based on location alone, I would say this is much more likely to be Bey's followers than NOI.
posted by Lazlo Hollyfeld at 7:16 PM on November 28, 2005

Know what my favorite part of the NOI mythology is? Jacub or Yakub or whatever his name is-- the evil black scientist who created white people. Just because he could.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:25 PM on November 28, 2005

What a terrible reason to invent white people!
posted by squirrel at 7:28 PM on November 28, 2005

My theory is he wanted a hockey team.
posted by jonmc at 7:29 PM on November 28, 2005

Fool! It was basketball coaches.
posted by squirrel at 7:42 PM on November 28, 2005

Fantastic bakery name, but I can't help but think they were influenced by my own 'Your White Atheist Bar and Grill', but it may be just a coincidence.
posted by SweetJesus at 8:34 PM on November 28, 2005

mistersix, I didn't include it because I actually wasn't aware of Bey or his influence, though I suspected that the Black Muslim Bakery was not directly affiliated with the Nation of Islam. Even then, I was perhaps unclear that it seemed more like several Black Muslims working independently rather than under orders of the NOI. The Bakery's history certainly does add another wrinkle to this story. I only recently moved here and I've noticed the very prominent Black Muslim population, but was not aware of their particular history. Thanks!
posted by ScottMorris at 8:40 PM on November 28, 2005

From one of the articles I read: "Bey discovered the Nation of Islam in 1964, and in 1971 he moved his Santa Barbara bakery to the East Bay, having named it Your Black Muslim Bakery on the personal recommendation of Nation of Islam leader Elijah Muhammad. Following the strict dietary laws of the Black Muslims, Bey gained a reputation for offering solid, healthy fare that was free of refined sugar, fats, and preservatives."

A few sentences further on in that article I see this: "Similarly, little is known about his formal relationship with the Nation of Islam. East Oakland's Muhammad Mosque #26 is the official East Bay center of Louis Farrakhan's movement. According to minister Keith Muhammad, the two organizations are distinct and separate." The two organizations being the NOI mosque and the bakery; this does not mean that their personnel don't overlap or that they're two different kinds of Black Muslims, as it also does not mean that the NOI officially ordered this "clean-up crusade". It sounds like they Beys are "loose cannons" from NOI, or like that's what they want us to think.

I recall that when I lived in Baltimore there were were some problems when the Fruit of Islam ("FOI"), the NOI's "security team", got hired by the City to be security guards in the Projects, problems that involved the FOI beating up alleged druggies and drug dealers, throwing them out of windows, etc.
posted by davy at 8:57 PM on November 28, 2005

Of course the S.F. Chronicle article says of the YBMB bunch:

"Members of that group, which operates the Your Black Muslim Bakery store chain, also wear bow ties and suits similar to those popular with the Nation of Islam. They have declined to comment on the liquor store vandalism.

The North Oakland group, which was headed for about 30 years by founder Yusuf Bey until his 2003 death, has no ties to the Nation of Islam, a national group headed by Louis Farrakhan."

It could be that they have no official ties now; YBMB could be spin-offs or splittists. (Which of course would not mean "the Official NOI" are angels.)


posted by davy at 9:06 PM on November 28, 2005

MetaFilter: a UFO cult in a half-assed 'news' wrapper.
posted by mephron at 6:39 AM on November 29, 2005

If the white man ain't the devil, how come every time a UFO comes down and picks one up, they kick his ass?
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:11 AM on November 29, 2005

They're not kicking his ass, dude..
posted by jonmc at 7:12 AM on November 29, 2005

That a quote from the Real Jews Are Black Dudes (aka the twelve angry tribes) who wear plastic He-Man armor and rant and rave on the Deuce (or used to), they make the NOI look like a Methodist ladies auxilliary bakesale club. Although I have to admit that if they changed it to "tickle his ass" they might get even more laughs from the line.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:23 AM on November 29, 2005

That a quote from the Real Jews Are Black Dudes (aka the twelve angry tribes)

Oh, those guys, with Jheri Curl Last Supper poster where the apostles look like Teddy Pendergrass' pickup band.
posted by jonmc at 7:46 AM on November 29, 2005

HA!
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:52 AM on November 29, 2005

I've heard that there has been a "power vacuum" within Dr. Bey's group since his death. It may be a splinter group, i.e. it was not an "official" action by YBMBakery folks, but wildcat action by some apostate subset of them.

In any case, they make rocking sweetrolls.
posted by ubi at 9:18 AM on November 29, 2005

They're right next to the Kill Whitey Krullers, right?
posted by jonmc at 9:24 AM on November 29, 2005

What's wrong with killing Whitey? If they'd start with me they'd solve half their problem right there.
posted by davy at 10:05 AM on November 29, 2005

Whitey has a tendency to self-destruct, anyway.
posted by jonmc at 10:33 AM on November 29, 2005

This, however, is hardly some new sign of the tehhrahists and their ideology immigrating to the US, though.

Aiie! It's France all over again!
posted by Artw at 12:42 PM on November 29, 2005

Apparently, the owner of the store was kidnapped shortly before the fire and turned up yesterday afternoon in the trunk of a car.
posted by ScottMorris at 1:10 PM on November 29, 2005

Two perpetrators have been caught, according to this article on cbsnews.com. One of them is Yusuf Bey IV.
posted by cass at 9:24 AM on November 30, 2005

(turned themselves in, I should have said)
posted by cass at 9:25 AM on November 30, 2005

One of them is Yusuf Bey IV.

Surprise, surprise. Two more men arrested yesterday.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:37 AM on December 9, 2005

Great muffins, though.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:38 AM on December 9, 2005