But don't hate her when she gets up to leave
February 22, 2006 7:51 AM Subscribe
Neutral Milk Hotel demos, videos, and bootlegs. Brainchild of enigmatic, now-reclusive singer/songwriter Jeff Mangum (not Magnum!), the "fuzz-folk" project known as Neutral Milk Hotel began and ended in the 90s and only released two LPs, but is still held as a touchstone by many indie rock critics.
More live recordings can be found at the site for Elephant 6, the collective which included NMH and other bands like Beulah, Circulatory System, Elf Power, and Apples in Stereo.
The complete discography and more MP3s. Some lyrics. (Previously)
No problem, I've been meaning to do this for awhile. I particularly recommend the 40 Watt Club videos from the main link. And here's my version of King of Carrot Flowers, pt. 1.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:00 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by ludwig_van at 8:00 AM on February 22, 2006
I was listening Aeroplane Over the Sea not three minutes ago. Excellent.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:03 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by Ironmouth at 8:03 AM on February 22, 2006
I take that back. When I turned mute off my speakers, it was still playing. What's that called, sernedipity?
posted by Ironmouth at 8:05 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by Ironmouth at 8:05 AM on February 22, 2006
I was just listening to ludwig_van's version of King of Carrot Flowers last night, spooky. Very nice set of links, thanks.
posted by jessamyn at 8:11 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by jessamyn at 8:11 AM on February 22, 2006
one of my all time favorites. excellent post and thanks!
posted by jessica at 8:18 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by jessica at 8:18 AM on February 22, 2006
Ha, that's funny jessamyn. I should also point out, since there's a lot there, that if you click the main link and scroll all the way down there's a recording of John Darnielle of The Mountain Goats performing Two Headed Boy, as well as some other covers.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:18 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by ludwig_van at 8:18 AM on February 22, 2006
Aeroplane over the Sea still holds up amazingly well today, and I'm confident it will in 10 or 20 years from now. Great site. Thanks for the link.
posted by tiger yang at 8:25 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by tiger yang at 8:25 AM on February 22, 2006
BTW, the Mountain Goats (they're my favorite band) rendition of Two Headed Boy was great.
posted by tiger yang at 8:27 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by tiger yang at 8:27 AM on February 22, 2006
I love neutral milk hotel, great post!
posted by nuclear_soup at 8:30 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by nuclear_soup at 8:30 AM on February 22, 2006
So what happened with Magum? Does anyone know why he's now a recluse, if he's making music, etc.?
posted by OmieWise at 8:43 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 8:43 AM on February 22, 2006
thanks! I am a happy woman because of this. great post.
posted by miss tea at 8:51 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by miss tea at 8:51 AM on February 22, 2006
"Song Against Sex" makes me grin like a idiot...thanks a lot!
posted by black8 at 8:51 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by black8 at 8:51 AM on February 22, 2006
Let me pile on to say this is a great post. Aeroplane is one of my all-time favorite albums.
posted by hupp at 8:54 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by hupp at 8:54 AM on February 22, 2006
I got introduced to NMH via The Decemberists, another band that has an oddly literary quality to them -- perhaps because the lead singer has an English degree (if I recall). Not the same sound, but similar uniqueness in my opinion.
posted by petrilli at 9:00 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by petrilli at 9:00 AM on February 22, 2006
Excellent. I just shot my man-gum. The guy who owns that first site better have cheap bandwidth.
posted by fleetmouse at 9:03 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by fleetmouse at 9:03 AM on February 22, 2006
Actually, omiewise, from what I've read, Mangum isn't a recluse as much as he just didn't want to release music that he'd written anymore. Orange Twin did release a set of music that he recorded at an Eastern European festival which is actually pretty great.
posted by sleepy pete at 9:11 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by sleepy pete at 9:11 AM on February 22, 2006
Found NMH and the whole Elephant 6 collective through Beulah, another defunked yet excellent band.
Other fantastic bands from the collective include Of Montreal and The Minders.
posted by a47danger at 9:21 AM on February 22, 2006
Other fantastic bands from the collective include Of Montreal and The Minders.
posted by a47danger at 9:21 AM on February 22, 2006
I was always vaguelly aware of NHM, but it wasn't until I heard the Dresden Dolls cover of Two Headed Boy that I really got into the album. The link goes to a bootleg of the cover performed live. There aren't any studio versions, yet.
posted by heresiarch at 9:25 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by heresiarch at 9:25 AM on February 22, 2006
On retrospect, I'm not sure what MeFi policy is on links to mp3s. As far as I can tell the link is legal and legit, but if it's bad form to post something like that, please nuke my post(s).
posted by heresiarch at 9:26 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by heresiarch at 9:26 AM on February 22, 2006
Awesome post. On Avery Island is one of my top albums ever - well, they both are, actually.
I was just going to ask if anyone knew about the Bulgarian folk music; thanks for the link, sleepy pete. I heard the recording once and remember liking it - but does anyone know why he did that? I think Balkan folk music is great, but i found it supremely amusing that one of my indie-rock friends got so enthusiastic about it when he otherwise never would have taken an interest. I'm not sure whether to take the Orange Twin project seriously or not. Did Jeff Mangum give any sort of context or motive for it? Does anyone own the album?
posted by xanthippe at 9:28 AM on February 22, 2006
I was just going to ask if anyone knew about the Bulgarian folk music; thanks for the link, sleepy pete. I heard the recording once and remember liking it - but does anyone know why he did that? I think Balkan folk music is great, but i found it supremely amusing that one of my indie-rock friends got so enthusiastic about it when he otherwise never would have taken an interest. I'm not sure whether to take the Orange Twin project seriously or not. Did Jeff Mangum give any sort of context or motive for it? Does anyone own the album?
posted by xanthippe at 9:28 AM on February 22, 2006
It's bands like NMH that leave me wondering if music with such a heavy focus on lyrics deters our ability to appreciate instrumental or foreign music. I've met one too many indie folk (NMH, Mountain Goats, Decemberists, Sufjan Steves, Apples in Stereo, The Shins, Spoon, etc.) fans who couldn't be bothered to listen to anything without lyrical focus (that they could understand).
posted by Mach3avelli at 9:29 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by Mach3avelli at 9:29 AM on February 22, 2006
Maybe the people that you run into just prefer lyrically-focused music. It might be a matter of developed personal taste, rather than a matter of destruction of ability to appreciate something else. I say this because I tend to be very appreciative of good lyrics, and like all of those bands that you listed, but still enjoy non-English and instrumental music (classical, mostly, but some jazz), depending on my mood.
(Tell those people who like that list of bands to check out the Dresden Dolls, btw. You will swell their lyrically-focused indie rock hearts with joy.)
Anyway, good post. I miss NMH.
posted by jennyb at 9:36 AM on February 22, 2006
(Tell those people who like that list of bands to check out the Dresden Dolls, btw. You will swell their lyrically-focused indie rock hearts with joy.)
Anyway, good post. I miss NMH.
posted by jennyb at 9:36 AM on February 22, 2006
In the Aeroplane: 90s :: Forever Changes: 60s
posted by bendybendy at 9:44 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by bendybendy at 9:44 AM on February 22, 2006
It almost never fails when I play NMH at my fortnight dj gig someone will immediatly ask for the Decemberists
posted by edgeways at 9:46 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by edgeways at 9:46 AM on February 22, 2006
xanthpipe: I own the album. I think it's great, but I listen to a lot of folk music (and not the Joan Baez type). The CD is "real," so I think you should take it seriously. This interview covers it pretty well.
posted by sleepy pete at 9:49 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by sleepy pete at 9:49 AM on February 22, 2006
yeah im grabbing all these boots etc. ive never heard the song bucket. it was always a joke with us that we wondered what bucket might be like because someone in the crowd on another live boot i had yells a request for bucket and jeff goes "you know bucket?"
for what its worth i hear he lives in brooklyn and is seen frequently at 'other music' a record shop in manhattan.
posted by c at 9:50 AM on February 22, 2006
for what its worth i hear he lives in brooklyn and is seen frequently at 'other music' a record shop in manhattan.
posted by c at 9:50 AM on February 22, 2006
This makes me so happy. On Avery Island is just one of the best albums ever (Aeroplane is, too, it's just "Naomi" that puts OAI over the edge of awesomeness for me). I'll be checking these mp3 out tonight!
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 9:54 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 9:54 AM on February 22, 2006
Two things interesting about lyrics and popular independent music:
The first is that I wonder if it is just how things swell and fall. I mean five years ago (or so) it seemed like everyone in the indie scene was talking about instrumental music -- Godspeed, Explosions in the Sky and the like. There seems to have been shift over the past two to three years during which the focus has turned to more lyrically based musics.
Second, there is something interesting, that I am not smart enough to unpack, about how this is conversely mirrored by Mangum. After producing these records which are considered enormous touchstones for new lyrical indie pop, he has turned to making soundscapes and field recordings of non-English folk music. I don't really know what that means, but figured someone here (and smarter) might be able to suss it out.
posted by verysleeping at 9:54 AM on February 22, 2006
The first is that I wonder if it is just how things swell and fall. I mean five years ago (or so) it seemed like everyone in the indie scene was talking about instrumental music -- Godspeed, Explosions in the Sky and the like. There seems to have been shift over the past two to three years during which the focus has turned to more lyrically based musics.
Second, there is something interesting, that I am not smart enough to unpack, about how this is conversely mirrored by Mangum. After producing these records which are considered enormous touchstones for new lyrical indie pop, he has turned to making soundscapes and field recordings of non-English folk music. I don't really know what that means, but figured someone here (and smarter) might be able to suss it out.
posted by verysleeping at 9:54 AM on February 22, 2006
I love this. Thank you. I first heard NMH many years ago at a friends house. It was entirely too late, and we were entirely too drunk (amongst other things) and Aeroplane blew my mind and broke my heart in one fell swoop.
posted by elwoodwiles at 10:03 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by elwoodwiles at 10:03 AM on February 22, 2006
The first is that I wonder if it is just how things swell and fall. I mean five years ago (or so) it seemed like everyone in the indie scene was talking about instrumental music -- Godspeed, Explosions in the Sky and the like. There seems to have been shift over the past two to three years during which the focus has turned to more lyrically based musics.
It's a trend I've noticed too. Every top 2005 year-end list placed Sufjan, The New Pornographers, or Antony and the Johnsons in the top spot. But speaking of ebb and flow, instrumental music is on the rebound. It's going to get crazy over the next couple years, alone because many of the new marquee bands have ditched the whole pretentious vibe and go straight for the jugular.
Here are some fascinating examples:
Saxon Shore - Marked with the Knowledge
Laura - Levodopa
Caspian - Quovis Further Up In
posted by Mach3avelli at 10:05 AM on February 22, 2006
It's a trend I've noticed too. Every top 2005 year-end list placed Sufjan, The New Pornographers, or Antony and the Johnsons in the top spot. But speaking of ebb and flow, instrumental music is on the rebound. It's going to get crazy over the next couple years, alone because many of the new marquee bands have ditched the whole pretentious vibe and go straight for the jugular.
Here are some fascinating examples:
Saxon Shore - Marked with the Knowledge
Laura - Levodopa
Caspian - Quovis Further Up In
posted by Mach3avelli at 10:05 AM on February 22, 2006
I can't listen to those because I'm at work, so if you would kindly tell me: Are they like GSYBE-type instrumental stuff? Or like electronic instrumental stuff? (I should have mentioned earlier that my husband is deep into a lot of labyrinthine electronic subgenres and I like a lot of those, too (I know that I generally like something called "microhouse" at least), although really repetitive lyrics tend to irritate me.) The larger question here being, which trend are we talking about?
As for Mangum, wasn't Olivia Termor Control pretty sound-scapey at times? Or at least very dense and noisily weird, as I remember.
And given that God Speed and Sigur Ros, maybe I think, released new albums recently that just weren't quite so gushed over, the fulcrum of the trends seem to be the people making the year-end lists, and not the people making the music.
I might not mean fulcrum, but hopefully you get my drift.
posted by jennyb at 10:15 AM on February 22, 2006
As for Mangum, wasn't Olivia Termor Control pretty sound-scapey at times? Or at least very dense and noisily weird, as I remember.
And given that God Speed and Sigur Ros, maybe I think, released new albums recently that just weren't quite so gushed over, the fulcrum of the trends seem to be the people making the year-end lists, and not the people making the music.
I might not mean fulcrum, but hopefully you get my drift.
posted by jennyb at 10:15 AM on February 22, 2006
Last I heard from my friends who know Jeff well, he’s living in NYC and working as a radio DJ. I know he joined up with Olivia Tremor Control for one song during their show in New York last summer. The last time I personally saw him perform in public was as the drummer for Circulatory System at the 40 Watt just after their first album in 2001.
A film project by Major Organ & the Adding Machine is in pre-production, but I don’t know if Mangum is participating in it.
Thanks for the link, I’ll be downloading a lot!
posted by ijoshua at 10:18 AM on February 22, 2006
A film project by Major Organ & the Adding Machine is in pre-production, but I don’t know if Mangum is participating in it.
Thanks for the link, I’ll be downloading a lot!
posted by ijoshua at 10:18 AM on February 22, 2006
Mach3avelli: It's bands like NMH that leave me wondering if music with such a heavy focus on lyrics deters our ability to appreciate instrumental or foreign music.
Ah, come on. By that rationale, you could say the same about Dylan, The Beatles, Bowie, Talking Heads, Pulp, or anyone else whose lyrics are predicated on narrative storytelling as they are on emotions.
On preview: jennyb is right. It's the people making the lists, not the albums, that dictate things. And anyway, are you telling us that back in 99/2000/2001, nobody was raving about Smog/Elliott Smith/Cat Power/Folk Implosion etc. at the same time as they were praising Godspeed or Mogwai?
posted by Len at 10:18 AM on February 22, 2006
Ah, come on. By that rationale, you could say the same about Dylan, The Beatles, Bowie, Talking Heads, Pulp, or anyone else whose lyrics are predicated on narrative storytelling as they are on emotions.
On preview: jennyb is right. It's the people making the lists, not the albums, that dictate things. And anyway, are you telling us that back in 99/2000/2001, nobody was raving about Smog/Elliott Smith/Cat Power/Folk Implosion etc. at the same time as they were praising Godspeed or Mogwai?
posted by Len at 10:18 AM on February 22, 2006
I can't listen to those because I'm at work, so if you would kindly tell me: Are they like GSYBE-type instrumental stuff? Or like electronic instrumental stuff? (I should have mentioned earlier that my husband is deep into a lot of labyrinthine electronic subgenres and I like a lot of those, too (I know that I generally like something called "microhouse" at least), although really repetitive lyrics tend to irritate me.) The larger question here being, which trend are we talking about?
Very guitar-pedal (distortion, delay, reverb, ebow, etc.) and synth-heavy. Instrumental music that rocks out with its cock out.
posted by Mach3avelli at 10:24 AM on February 22, 2006
Very guitar-pedal (distortion, delay, reverb, ebow, etc.) and synth-heavy. Instrumental music that rocks out with its cock out.
posted by Mach3avelli at 10:24 AM on February 22, 2006
Muchos, muchos gracias.
posted by youarenothere at 10:26 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by youarenothere at 10:26 AM on February 22, 2006
Thanks, Mach3avelli. That sounds very appealing. I will investigate further when I'm in a situation that guitar-pedal, synth heavy cock rock won't draw stares from people who sign my pay checks.
posted by jennyb at 10:37 AM on February 22, 2006
posted by jennyb at 10:37 AM on February 22, 2006
n preview: jennyb is right. It's the people making the lists, not the albums, that dictate things. And anyway, are you telling us that back in 99/2000/2001, nobody was raving about Smog/Elliott Smith/Cat Power/Folk Implosion etc. at the same time as they were praising Godspeed or Mogwai?
I mean, sure, they were, but the "it" bands of the time carry much broader popularity. I just read a tour diary biopic of Cat Power in GQ. That didn't happen 5 years ago. How many instrumental bands have been hyped since the dawn of GYBE/EITS/Sigur Ros? (Actually, SR's major label debut made quite a bit of headway in 2005.) I guess I'm talking in more general terms, and as much as we'd like to deny it, music journalists do hold a lot of sway in what the general population listens to.
For those interested, my top 50 album list of 2005.
posted by Mach3avelli at 10:41 AM on February 22, 2006
I mean, sure, they were, but the "it" bands of the time carry much broader popularity. I just read a tour diary biopic of Cat Power in GQ. That didn't happen 5 years ago. How many instrumental bands have been hyped since the dawn of GYBE/EITS/Sigur Ros? (Actually, SR's major label debut made quite a bit of headway in 2005.) I guess I'm talking in more general terms, and as much as we'd like to deny it, music journalists do hold a lot of sway in what the general population listens to.
For those interested, my top 50 album list of 2005.
posted by Mach3avelli at 10:41 AM on February 22, 2006
Len and jennyb: Absolutely, I'm not suggesting that brilliant instrumental music isn't being made now, nor that lyrical stuff wasn't recognized in the early aughts; but that in general, the popular independent music press (the list-makers and in some pretty big ways, the taste-makers) are paying more attention to 3 minute songs these days than to 8 minute pieces.
Mach3avelli clearly being an exception!
On preview: What he said. Exactly.
posted by verysleeping at 10:53 AM on February 22, 2006
Mach3avelli clearly being an exception!
On preview: What he said. Exactly.
posted by verysleeping at 10:53 AM on February 22, 2006
I just read a tour diary biopic of Cat Power in GQ. That didn't happen 5 years ago.
I wouldn't have thought Godspeed would have been doing GQ tour diary puff pieces five years ago either, knowing them.
(Seriously, though) There haven't been that many hyped instrumental bands since GYBE etc were being touted mostly because it's all cyclical and so much of what came after was either not very good in the first place or just too plain odd for the outer fringes of the mainstream. And yes, Sigur Ros's new album made headway, but they were hardly operating on the margins up until taking EMI's fat paycheck. How long ago was it they appeared on the soundtrack to Vanilla Sky? Even Mogwai (Mogwai!) were used in one episode of Sex And The City as nice pretty backing music.
As for music hacks holding a lot of sway on what people listen to, in some ways yes, over a particular subset of the general record-buying populace, the vast majority of which is mostly comprised of people who buy five CDs a year. Most people couldn't give two shits what people reviewing records think; they're more swayed by radio, TV, advertising, and so on.
On preview:
the popular independent music press (the list-makers and in some pretty big ways, the taste-makers) are paying more attention to 3 minute songs these days than to 8 minute pieces.
Oh, definitely. But that's because – where an independent music press still exists; there's not much of one left in Britain, sadly – they're mostly fickle and always on the hunt for something new; after a couple of years of giving review-length blowjobs to hairy, seriously political Canadians, it was time to start venerating the people doing the exact opposite. Hence, the rise of the Strokes, The White Stripes &c. It'll bounce back soon enough, mind – if you take the start of the musical cycle which culminated in the early 2000s love for all things long, instrumental & noisy, it goes back to the mid 90s post-rock boom. Which means The Strokes can't be over soon enough ;)
posted by Len at 11:00 AM on February 22, 2006
I wouldn't have thought Godspeed would have been doing GQ tour diary puff pieces five years ago either, knowing them.
(Seriously, though) There haven't been that many hyped instrumental bands since GYBE etc were being touted mostly because it's all cyclical and so much of what came after was either not very good in the first place or just too plain odd for the outer fringes of the mainstream. And yes, Sigur Ros's new album made headway, but they were hardly operating on the margins up until taking EMI's fat paycheck. How long ago was it they appeared on the soundtrack to Vanilla Sky? Even Mogwai (Mogwai!) were used in one episode of Sex And The City as nice pretty backing music.
As for music hacks holding a lot of sway on what people listen to, in some ways yes, over a particular subset of the general record-buying populace, the vast majority of which is mostly comprised of people who buy five CDs a year. Most people couldn't give two shits what people reviewing records think; they're more swayed by radio, TV, advertising, and so on.
On preview:
the popular independent music press (the list-makers and in some pretty big ways, the taste-makers) are paying more attention to 3 minute songs these days than to 8 minute pieces.
Oh, definitely. But that's because – where an independent music press still exists; there's not much of one left in Britain, sadly – they're mostly fickle and always on the hunt for something new; after a couple of years of giving review-length blowjobs to hairy, seriously political Canadians, it was time to start venerating the people doing the exact opposite. Hence, the rise of the Strokes, The White Stripes &c. It'll bounce back soon enough, mind – if you take the start of the musical cycle which culminated in the early 2000s love for all things long, instrumental & noisy, it goes back to the mid 90s post-rock boom. Which means The Strokes can't be over soon enough ;)
posted by Len at 11:00 AM on February 22, 2006
I just can't wait for a ska revival!
I'm only slightly joking.
By the way, did want to mention that this is a wonderful post. Had the dumb luck of seeing NMH in Detroit in 95 or 96 (opening! for Butterglory!) -- the entire band hopped up and down in sync with each other and the beat for pretty much the entire show. The band's ability to co-mingle utter despair and reckless joy even came through in their live performance.
posted by verysleeping at 11:22 AM on February 22, 2006
I'm only slightly joking.
By the way, did want to mention that this is a wonderful post. Had the dumb luck of seeing NMH in Detroit in 95 or 96 (opening! for Butterglory!) -- the entire band hopped up and down in sync with each other and the beat for pretty much the entire show. The band's ability to co-mingle utter despair and reckless joy even came through in their live performance.
posted by verysleeping at 11:22 AM on February 22, 2006
As much as I like In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, I have to say that I like Olivia Tremor Control's stuff and Circulatory System more. It maintains the same mystical, timeless quality but there's more going on - which for me is a plus. When the hell is Blasting Through coming out?!
And while I'm here, your favorite band sucks.
Thanks for the post!
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 11:46 AM on February 22, 2006
And while I'm here, your favorite band sucks.
Thanks for the post!
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 11:46 AM on February 22, 2006
Thanks, l_v.
posted by safetyfork at 12:28 PM on February 22, 2006
posted by safetyfork at 12:28 PM on February 22, 2006
hairy, seriously political Canadians,
Dibs on that for a band name.
posted by jokeefe at 1:01 PM on February 22, 2006
Dibs on that for a band name.
posted by jokeefe at 1:01 PM on February 22, 2006
Memories. One of the best live shows I've ever attended was Olivia Tremor Control at the Horseshoe in Toronto. Actually, I remember when Elephant 6 bands were pretty much the only interesting shows coming through the city and it was quite common to hit up the Horseshoe on a Thurs-Fri-Sat night and one of the bands would be there.
I miss those days.
posted by purephase at 1:06 PM on February 22, 2006
I miss those days.
posted by purephase at 1:06 PM on February 22, 2006
Thanks for the interview link, too. So he quit the stage to become a Buddhist. I hope he decides to release the sound montages someday.
I still find Orange Twin strange, but it sounds like a positive thing - maybe it'll get the kids off their couches and, err, onto the couches of some hostels in Bulgaria. But apparently he wasn't thinking of it that way at all. Nice that he's donating the proceeds to charity, too.
posted by xanthippe at 1:45 PM on February 22, 2006
I still find Orange Twin strange, but it sounds like a positive thing - maybe it'll get the kids off their couches and, err, onto the couches of some hostels in Bulgaria. But apparently he wasn't thinking of it that way at all. Nice that he's donating the proceeds to charity, too.
posted by xanthippe at 1:45 PM on February 22, 2006
(here's the interview again, that sleepy pete linked way up there)
posted by xanthippe at 1:58 PM on February 22, 2006
posted by xanthippe at 1:58 PM on February 22, 2006
wondering if music with such a heavy focus on lyrics deters our ability to appreciate instrumental or foreign music
You do know that "Words .... or Music?" is the music world's version of "Ginger or Mary-Anne?" For my part, as a confirmed "words" type, NMH is a band that helps me appreciate its non-lyrical qualities. Certainly the way Mangum uses his imperfect voice as an instrument is itself non-lyrical.
In fact, I've been thinking about the relationship between ITAOTS and Nine Inch Nails' The Downward Spiral. Obviously spiritually and thematically at opposite ends (you could go on for several minutes listing things in which they're opposites), but the musical craftsmanship is similar -- to my ears, both albums transport me to a different place simply through the creation of a unique and multi-layered soundscape.
posted by dhartung at 4:20 PM on February 22, 2006
You do know that "Words .... or Music?" is the music world's version of "Ginger or Mary-Anne?" For my part, as a confirmed "words" type, NMH is a band that helps me appreciate its non-lyrical qualities. Certainly the way Mangum uses his imperfect voice as an instrument is itself non-lyrical.
In fact, I've been thinking about the relationship between ITAOTS and Nine Inch Nails' The Downward Spiral. Obviously spiritually and thematically at opposite ends (you could go on for several minutes listing things in which they're opposites), but the musical craftsmanship is similar -- to my ears, both albums transport me to a different place simply through the creation of a unique and multi-layered soundscape.
posted by dhartung at 4:20 PM on February 22, 2006
I'm not sure whether to take the Orange Twin project seriously or not.
They've put a lot of work over time into their eco-village, not the sort of thing one does for a lark. Their musical endeavors comprise good stuff from Athens over the past decade or so. And they're mighty nice people, never a smirk on their faces.
I for one take them seriously.
posted by gwyon at 5:42 PM on February 22, 2006
They've put a lot of work over time into their eco-village, not the sort of thing one does for a lark. Their musical endeavors comprise good stuff from Athens over the past decade or so. And they're mighty nice people, never a smirk on their faces.
I for one take them seriously.
posted by gwyon at 5:42 PM on February 22, 2006
I definitely agree with dhartung on the words/music thing. and, personally, why not have both? I understand the argument above, don't get me wrong, but On Avery Island ends with a 12 minute sound collage (I think it's 12, it's been awhile since I listened to it) so it seems that both elements were a part of NMH as well.
I think one of the biggest things about Mangum is just that he wrote a couple of beautiful albums, one that touched a lot of people (Aeroplane) and, if I understand correctly, the thought of having to write that again just didn't appeal to him at all, so, he just left it. I'm really thankful that he left the music he did and I hope that one day he's able to write more. And thanks for the post l_v!
posted by sleepy pete at 5:42 PM on February 22, 2006
I think one of the biggest things about Mangum is just that he wrote a couple of beautiful albums, one that touched a lot of people (Aeroplane) and, if I understand correctly, the thought of having to write that again just didn't appeal to him at all, so, he just left it. I'm really thankful that he left the music he did and I hope that one day he's able to write more. And thanks for the post l_v!
posted by sleepy pete at 5:42 PM on February 22, 2006
I think all music we enjoy transports us to that musical nirvana. What I think is interesting is trying to determine what sort of personality traits correlate with the different ways people listen to music (if any such exist). Personally, I've got my own aesthetic down to such a science that I can tell instantly from a five-second sampling if I'll like a song/album/band. Part of my search is to try and discover wherein my aesthetic is rooted. Thinking back to the songs I enjoyed when I was just eight years old, I can compare them to songs I enjoy today and feel the similarities (moods, themes, vamping, minor chord progressions, etc.). Odd, even, because I'm vastly different in personality to the trends present within my music circles. I do believe it's in my brain somewhere, and I'll feel happy discovering the origins (I can at least already trace the evolutions).
posted by Mach3avelli at 5:46 PM on February 22, 2006
posted by Mach3avelli at 5:46 PM on February 22, 2006
Good lord. If you think you can judge any/every band you hear from a "five second sampling" then you're really missing out on some amazing music. That's not science. That's blinkered ignorance. Would (could?) you really judge – say – Godspeed on five excerpted seconds of Blaise Bailey Finnegan III? Bowie on the first two chords of Ziggy Stardust? Hüsker Dü on the start of Don't Want To Know If You're Lonely? DJ Shadow on a few of the words spoken in the the breakdown of Lost & Found? If you think so, you need to listen to music differently. (Apologies if I don't reply for a while. This is my last post before heading to bed for the night; it's gone 2am here)
posted by Len at 6:26 PM on February 22, 2006
posted by Len at 6:26 PM on February 22, 2006
Would (could?) you really judge – say – Godspeed on five excerpted seconds of Blaise Bailey Finnegan III? Bowie on the first two chords of Ziggy Stardust? Hüsker Dü on the start of Don't Want To Know If You're Lonely? DJ Shadow on a few of the words spoken in the the breakdown of Lost & Found?
From the heart of those songs mentioned, yes. "5 seconds" is hyperbole, so I apologize for that. I should clarify my method: I'll just fast-forward to the middle of a track and continue sliding the bar every couple seconds. I get the gist of most songs this way. For the amount of music I go through (about 30 albums a week), this is the most sane method to separate the wheat from the chaff. I'm sure I miss a few golden songs here and there, but for the most part, I find myself well more than enough good music.
It's all a game of numbers and probability, this method. And the fact that it's purely aesthetic (rather than lyrical) provides me with the advantage of discerning most good stuff immediately according to my tastes. It's actually more of skipping over what I don't enjoy rather than holding onto what I do. Whiny voice over acoustic guitar? Skip. Two-chord, screamo-fest? Skip. High-fret guitar? Hold. Minimalist, rising intensity -> climax? Hold. Something new? Investigate! Etc.
But yeah, it's through enough trial-and-error that I'm confident in my ability to stick to what I know/avoid what I dislike/keep an open ear for new, innovative sounds. It's an efficient umbrella. (And of course, those that pass the test go on to stricter and stricter standards until I love it enough to listen to it ad nauseum.)
posted by Mach3avelli at 7:23 PM on February 22, 2006
From the heart of those songs mentioned, yes. "5 seconds" is hyperbole, so I apologize for that. I should clarify my method: I'll just fast-forward to the middle of a track and continue sliding the bar every couple seconds. I get the gist of most songs this way. For the amount of music I go through (about 30 albums a week), this is the most sane method to separate the wheat from the chaff. I'm sure I miss a few golden songs here and there, but for the most part, I find myself well more than enough good music.
It's all a game of numbers and probability, this method. And the fact that it's purely aesthetic (rather than lyrical) provides me with the advantage of discerning most good stuff immediately according to my tastes. It's actually more of skipping over what I don't enjoy rather than holding onto what I do. Whiny voice over acoustic guitar? Skip. Two-chord, screamo-fest? Skip. High-fret guitar? Hold. Minimalist, rising intensity -> climax? Hold. Something new? Investigate! Etc.
But yeah, it's through enough trial-and-error that I'm confident in my ability to stick to what I know/avoid what I dislike/keep an open ear for new, innovative sounds. It's an efficient umbrella. (And of course, those that pass the test go on to stricter and stricter standards until I love it enough to listen to it ad nauseum.)
posted by Mach3avelli at 7:23 PM on February 22, 2006
wondering if music with such a heavy focus on lyrics deters our ability to appreciate instrumental or foreign music
I boggle at this too. I just don't think about music this way. I think that's why so many people respond to NMH's work so viscerally -- they didn't, either. They were as adventerous with instrumentation as they were lyrically. I just read Kim Cooper's 33 1/3 book about Aeroplane and I think the most important point she emphasizes is that the core of Elephant 6 grew up together in a small town. Their music has that quality of play, the serious play that kids are best at, and the intimacy of a conversation between the deepest of friends. It just doesn't fit into a binary like "lyrics vs. instruments" or even "now vs. then" or "me vs. you." It's far more fluid than that.
Anyway, there is no other (relatively) contemporary record as important to me as Aeroplane, and no model of making music -- no spirit -- more inspiring. Cooper quotes Julian Koster at the end of the book, and he says something about that spirit I've not been able to stop thinking about, and have been meaning to set down somewhere easy to find whenever I want it. It may as well be here:
"I think what Elephant 6 meant for us is very simple: there's something pure and infinite in you, that wants to come out of you, and can come out of no other person on the planet. That's what you've got to share, and that's as real and important as the fact that you're alive. We were able, at a really young age, to somehow protect each other so we could feel that. The world at large, careerism, money, magazines, your parents, the people at the rock club in your town, other kids, nothing is going to give you that message, necessarily. In fact, most things are going to lead you away from it, sadly, because humanity is really confused at the moment. But you wouldn't exist if the universe didn't need you. And any time I encounter something beautiful that came out of a human somewhere, that's them, that's their own soul. That's just pure, whatever its physicality is, if the person can play piano, if they can't play piano, if they're tone deaf, whatever it is, if it's pure, it hits you like a sledgehammer. It fills up your own soul, it makes you want to cry, it makes you glad you're alive, it lets you come out of you. And that's what we need: we desperately need you."
posted by melissa may at 9:07 PM on February 22, 2006 [2 favorites]
I boggle at this too. I just don't think about music this way. I think that's why so many people respond to NMH's work so viscerally -- they didn't, either. They were as adventerous with instrumentation as they were lyrically. I just read Kim Cooper's 33 1/3 book about Aeroplane and I think the most important point she emphasizes is that the core of Elephant 6 grew up together in a small town. Their music has that quality of play, the serious play that kids are best at, and the intimacy of a conversation between the deepest of friends. It just doesn't fit into a binary like "lyrics vs. instruments" or even "now vs. then" or "me vs. you." It's far more fluid than that.
Anyway, there is no other (relatively) contemporary record as important to me as Aeroplane, and no model of making music -- no spirit -- more inspiring. Cooper quotes Julian Koster at the end of the book, and he says something about that spirit I've not been able to stop thinking about, and have been meaning to set down somewhere easy to find whenever I want it. It may as well be here:
"I think what Elephant 6 meant for us is very simple: there's something pure and infinite in you, that wants to come out of you, and can come out of no other person on the planet. That's what you've got to share, and that's as real and important as the fact that you're alive. We were able, at a really young age, to somehow protect each other so we could feel that. The world at large, careerism, money, magazines, your parents, the people at the rock club in your town, other kids, nothing is going to give you that message, necessarily. In fact, most things are going to lead you away from it, sadly, because humanity is really confused at the moment. But you wouldn't exist if the universe didn't need you. And any time I encounter something beautiful that came out of a human somewhere, that's them, that's their own soul. That's just pure, whatever its physicality is, if the person can play piano, if they can't play piano, if they're tone deaf, whatever it is, if it's pure, it hits you like a sledgehammer. It fills up your own soul, it makes you want to cry, it makes you glad you're alive, it lets you come out of you. And that's what we need: we desperately need you."
posted by melissa may at 9:07 PM on February 22, 2006 [2 favorites]
On Avery Island is just one of the best albums ever (Aeroplane is, too, it's just "Naomi" that puts OAI over the edge of awesomeness for me).
I think Aeroplane is amazing, but OAI is really indulgent for me. I think a lot of people miss it, because they are so focused on Aeroplane. It has everything that I used to like about Nirvana, but so so so much more.
"So prudddddyyy"!
posted by Packy_1962 at 2:08 AM on February 23, 2006
I think Aeroplane is amazing, but OAI is really indulgent for me. I think a lot of people miss it, because they are so focused on Aeroplane. It has everything that I used to like about Nirvana, but so so so much more.
"So prudddddyyy"!
posted by Packy_1962 at 2:08 AM on February 23, 2006
Wow, I didn't expect to find so many NMH fans here. I get a lot of weird looks when I tell people they're my favorite band. I'm glad you folks enjoyed the post.
Thanks to sleepypete for posting the pitchfork interview, which I meant to include in the original post. Here's another article which I forgot about, too. A very in-depth post-Aeroplane article with a lot of into about the band's backstory and Mangum's state post-'98.
As for the instrumental vs. lyrical debate above, it seems like a rather moot point to me. Sure, Sufjan and Antony sing, but I don't think it's accurate to say that the lyrics are their primary draw in the way that the music must be for a solely instrumental band. For a band like NMH or The Decemberists you'd have more of a case. Sufjan's instrumental arrangements are the best feature of his music, IMO, and at any rate are quite sophisticated and classically-inflected. Ditto for Arcade Fire.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:03 AM on February 23, 2006
Thanks to sleepypete for posting the pitchfork interview, which I meant to include in the original post. Here's another article which I forgot about, too. A very in-depth post-Aeroplane article with a lot of into about the band's backstory and Mangum's state post-'98.
As for the instrumental vs. lyrical debate above, it seems like a rather moot point to me. Sure, Sufjan and Antony sing, but I don't think it's accurate to say that the lyrics are their primary draw in the way that the music must be for a solely instrumental band. For a band like NMH or The Decemberists you'd have more of a case. Sufjan's instrumental arrangements are the best feature of his music, IMO, and at any rate are quite sophisticated and classically-inflected. Ditto for Arcade Fire.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:03 AM on February 23, 2006
Thanks, ludwig_van, for reminding how effing great NMH is. It's like a child's poem that has learnt all kinds of new words and concepts by itself but somehow has trouble growing up. It's moving, amusing and deeply grievous at the same time.
A while ago, some early demos surfaced on the web, originating from a tape from an ex-roommate of Jeff's. It was discussed among the bunnies at the time. I'm not sure if it's the same thing as this though, or whether there is any overlap.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:32 AM on February 23, 2006
A while ago, some early demos surfaced on the web, originating from a tape from an ex-roommate of Jeff's. It was discussed among the bunnies at the time. I'm not sure if it's the same thing as this though, or whether there is any overlap.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:32 AM on February 23, 2006
« Older Mob Deep | Vintage High-Tech Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by ubi at 7:57 AM on February 22, 2006