Saddam Hussein is Dead
December 29, 2006 7:17 PM   Subscribe

Saddam has been executed, Iraqi media reports
posted by pyramid termite (347 comments total) 5 users marked this as a favorite

 
sorry, guys, but we CANNOT have a lousy damned south park video fpp as our thread for this
posted by pyramid termite at 7:17 PM on December 29, 2006


.
posted by fandango_matt at 7:20 PM on December 29, 2006 [4 favorites]


Goodnight, sweet prince.
posted by champthom at 7:20 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


A moment of silence? Surely the correct response to news like this is to wildly fire your assault rifle into the air, shouting "Allahu Akbar"
posted by Chunder at 7:22 PM on December 29, 2006


"sorry, guys, but we CANNOT have a lousy damned south park video fpp as our thread for this"
posted by pyramid termite at 7:17 PM on December 29

You're absolutely right. What we really needed was a lousy one link Newsfilter post like this one.
posted by Second Account For Making Jokey Comments at 7:22 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


someone was going to do it, weren't they?
posted by pyramid termite at 7:23 PM on December 29, 2006


Awesome, that means the war's over now and everyone can come home.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:26 PM on December 29, 2006 [5 favorites]


No, the correct response is to post a one-link front-page-post on MetaFilter about Saddam Hussein's execution just so you can say you were the one who posted a one-link front-page-post on MetaFilter, and hopefully win that fucking Wii.
posted by fandango_matt at 7:26 PM on December 29, 2006


Whoo? Who!!
posted by Balisong at 7:28 PM on December 29, 2006


As I noted in the hopefully-doomed earlier thread, the . has now jumped the shark. Or the stingray.

Would it be okay if I fired my nerf gun and shouted "Akbar and Jeff"?

And if all hell broke loose right now in Iraq, would anybody notice?

Personally, I support this thread with the one link to MSNBC.com, but I think this link to MSNBC.com is better (but I could never post it to the front page).
posted by wendell at 7:28 PM on December 29, 2006


Yay! That'll fix it!
posted by The Deej at 7:29 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


How long before the link to Ogrish.com of the un-official leaked video?
posted by Balisong at 7:30 PM on December 29, 2006


Thanks for the information, Pyramid. I had missed the news in that shitty South Park thread.

A good post to MetaFilter is something that meets the following criteria: most people haven't seen it before, there is something interesting about the content on the page, and it might warrant discussion from others.

1. Considering it just happened, not many people could have seen this before.
2. It's pretty interesting that this guys is dead.
3. Definitely will warrant discussion. Now, if we could get them to talk about Saddam instead of the damn fpp, that'd be better.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 7:31 PM on December 29, 2006


In other news, Bush voted most evil person of 2006 in AP poll.(mov)
posted by dobbs at 7:32 PM on December 29, 2006


Sorry, not most evil, the biggest villian.
posted by dobbs at 7:33 PM on December 29, 2006


Paging the Ghost of Saddam Hussein sockpuppet account.
posted by Balisong at 7:33 PM on December 29, 2006


What's the deal with one link posts anyway? Am I supposed to derive great pleasure from clicking multiple links just to get the gist of a story?
posted by dropkick at 7:33 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


Somewhere in Pakistan, Bin Laden chuckles and orders another cup of tea.
posted by planetkyoto at 7:33 PM on December 29, 2006 [4 favorites]


[gif tag of kangaroos playing basketball]
posted by CynicalKnight at 7:33 PM on December 29, 2006


Saddam, they said you was hung!
posted by ColdChef at 7:34 PM on December 29, 2006


And yet we still have a thread for this. My point in the other thread stands.

I know where you're coming from, pyramid termite. I really do. But we were going to have a news-chatfilter thread about this. If the Ladies Home Journal had run an article, "Which Butternut Squash Soup Recipie Did Saddam Pick For His Last Meal?" and you'd linked to that, the result would be the same.
posted by Cyrano at 7:34 PM on December 29, 2006


woah, mass deletions!
posted by b1tr0t at 7:36 PM on December 29, 2006


sorry, guys, but we CANNOT have a lousy damned south park video fpp as our thread for this

That seems to imply that this one dude's murder is somehow some sort of momentous watershed moment, when in fact it's of almost no real significance, except in a tit-for-tat sense for all his victims. For whom, kudos, and for the rest of the world, ok, so?
posted by signal at 7:36 PM on December 29, 2006


Mission Accomplished.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:36 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Sometimes you kick, sometimes you get kicked.
posted by furtive at 7:36 PM on December 29, 2006


That seems to imply that this one dude's murder is somehow some sort of momentous watershed moment

the iraqis seem to think differently, i bet
posted by pyramid termite at 7:37 PM on December 29, 2006


Hey, look, the World Trade Center rebuilt itself!

What?

Again?
posted by eriko at 7:37 PM on December 29, 2006


i feel safer now.
posted by quonsar at 7:37 PM on December 29, 2006


I'll miss his gumption.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:38 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


i feel quonsar now.
posted by ColdChef at 7:38 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


That'll show him for knocking down them towers.
posted by bigbigdog at 7:38 PM on December 29, 2006


I'll miss his 'stache.
posted by ColdChef at 7:39 PM on December 29, 2006


that tickles.
posted by quonsar at 7:39 PM on December 29, 2006


I don't understand.

Saddam was a well known person. He died.
Why the MeFi controversey?

Since when do we not do these sorts of threads here?
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 7:42 PM on December 29, 2006


Personally, I'm looking forward to the coming plethora of sublime, erudite YTMND pages.
posted by Tube at 7:42 PM on December 29, 2006


When I feel quonsar, I take Extra Strength Smockoprin.
posted by wendell at 7:42 PM on December 29, 2006


Oops. That was in response to signal's comment, btw.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 7:42 PM on December 29, 2006


It's funny how there's a lot of contradiction in the press reports about whether he was hanged. That darn Iraqi government is so secretive.
posted by zek at 7:43 PM on December 29, 2006


But some of his old partners in genocide remain at large.
posted by homunculus at 7:43 PM on December 29, 2006


.
posted by Mister Bijou at 7:44 PM on December 29, 2006


,
posted by mazola at 7:46 PM on December 29, 2006


In other news: Bush is on the run.
posted by homunculus at 7:46 PM on December 29, 2006


Thanks for the memories, Saddam.
posted by homunculus at 7:47 PM on December 29, 2006 [24 favorites]


*
posted by Jimbob at 7:48 PM on December 29, 2006


At last, our long national nightmare is finally able to get going properly.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:49 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


By which I mean, if only Pinochet could have got some of the same treatment.
posted by Jimbob at 7:49 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Great link homunculus!
posted by kisch mokusch at 7:52 PM on December 29, 2006


#
posted by octothorpe at 7:52 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


Remember the faux-Saddams? Guess they can come out of hiding now.
posted by scheptech at 7:52 PM on December 29, 2006


   _____
   1      |
   1      |
   1      :
   1     (.)
   1
   1
   1
   1
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
posted by pardonyou? at 7:54 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]



Ah, 19th century-style execution: a clear triumph for human rights and the rule of law.
posted by bukharin at 7:54 PM on December 29, 2006 [6 favorites]


"#
posted by octothorpe"


Eponysterical. But then, you knew that.
posted by Eideteker at 7:55 PM on December 29, 2006


If he was tried in an Iraqi court and the whole thing was supposed to show how the Iraqis now had a functioning justice system, why did we have custody of him the whole time?

This whole thing was a show trial and a travesty, and now we have the execution--i betcha our govt. leaks pictures of him dead in time for the Sunday papers.
posted by amberglow at 7:55 PM on December 29, 2006 [6 favorites]



How long before the link to Ogrish.com of the un-official leaked video?
posted by Balisong at 10:30 PM EST on December 29


From Ogrish:

Upgrading site, please visit back shortly
posted by x_3mta3 at 7:55 PM on December 29, 2006


I'm quite glad he's dead.
posted by pemulis at 7:55 PM on December 29, 2006


I'm pissed that they fucked this one up so badly. It's great that the fucker is dead, but the trial should have been a legitimate, believable process rather than the farce that it appeared to be.

As it is he's just going to be a martyr for a lot of Iraqis.
posted by bshort at 7:57 PM on December 29, 2006


quonsar marked the other thread as a favorite.

homunculus, That's an excellent short video about Saddam's involvement with the CIA! Thanks.
posted by nickyskye at 7:58 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


YAY! NOW THERE WILL BE PEACE AND PROSPERITY IN IRAQ! OUR TROOPS CAN GO HOME! WHAT A ROUSING SUCCESS FOR THE BUSH AGENDA! JUST LIKE AFGHANISTAN!
posted by dw at 7:58 PM on December 29, 2006


Awesome link homunculus! Must-see viewing.
posted by dropkick at 7:58 PM on December 29, 2006


We win Iraq! We found the WMDs and we killed the bad man! Mission accomplished!
posted by Nelson at 7:58 PM on December 29, 2006


Wow, that was really worth three trillion dollars.

In other news, the US is one of the few Western countries that still doesn't have national healthcare. Guns not butter and all that.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:58 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


How fucking grotesque.

We just need the footage to play on CNN to confirm we really are the new Roman Empire. Well, not very new in terms of morality.
posted by Bletch at 7:59 PM on December 29, 2006


poppy must be so proud.
posted by quonsar at 7:59 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


(Oh, and I hope that he's welcomed into hell by the damned with flowers and sweets.)
posted by dw at 7:59 PM on December 29, 2006


i betcha our govt. leaks pictures of him dead in time for the Sunday papers.

They showed pics of sons Uday and Qusay so people in the area would get it.
posted by scheptech at 7:59 PM on December 29, 2006


Does anyone have the tally of how many people have died so far so that dubya could avenge his daddy's name?

Does Saddam's death mean that we can stop worrying about terrorism?
posted by SteveTheRed at 8:00 PM on December 29, 2006


"Our respect for human rights requires us to execute him, and there will be no review or delay in carrying out the sentence," Mr Maliki said

Disgusting.
posted by amberglow at 8:01 PM on December 29, 2006 [5 favorites]


It's just too bad that Derek Jeter didn't try to kill Bush's dad. I've never liked him either.
posted by allen.spaulding at 8:04 PM on December 29, 2006


Wow, James Brown, Gerald Ford, and now Saddam, all in less than a week. I guess these things really do come in threes.
posted by notswedish at 8:05 PM on December 29, 2006



Ah, 19th century-style execution: a clear triumph for human rights and the rule of law.


Thank you, bukharin. I think this is a really interesting point. I've noticed that the media seems to feel as squeamishly about this as I do. If Saddam had been killed in combat, this would be played up in the grandest tradition of Hollywood heroism, wherein the bad guy had been defeated.

But this bad guy looks old and forlorn, has used his dying words to plead for peace, and now has (apparently, allegedly) been executed in a manner which most prominently features in our national memory as a common way to murder black folks in racist fervor: publically, by hanging. Not exactly a token of reconciliation.
posted by Embryo at 8:05 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


It's too bad Ford died too early to pardon him.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:06 PM on December 29, 2006 [7 favorites]


On my own site, I already predicted:

Three hours after Saddam Hussein is hanged, President Bush will announce that all American troops will be withdrawn from Iraq, declaring “everything’s done that I thought needed to be done.” Celebrations will be muted when it is learned that the withdrawal route is set up to go through downtown Tehran.

Unfortunately, it was at the top of my "Predictions for 2007", so I don't have a clue what's going to happen now.
posted by wendell at 8:07 PM on December 29, 2006


but but we haven't handed him over yet.. or at least that was the official line for ALL of today.
posted by edgeways at 8:07 PM on December 29, 2006


maybe in your national memory, but iirc, white people were also hanged quite often.
posted by keswick at 8:07 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Dude! Double Drudge siren!
posted by The Straightener at 8:07 PM on December 29, 2006


I guess these things really do come in threes.

I was going to say that, too. Pretty crazy, huh?
posted by londontube at 8:08 PM on December 29, 2006


I love the CNN graphic. It's exactly like the one they use for celebrities.
posted by hyperizer at 8:08 PM on December 29, 2006


And if "these things really do come in threes", then Castro is safe for a while.
posted by wendell at 8:08 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Wikipedia on the details of Saddam Hussein's execution. Wikipedia's biography of Saddam Hussein.

More about the relationship between the CIA and Saddam Hussein.
posted by nickyskye at 8:09 PM on December 29, 2006


I don't see how Saddam's execution will aid in stability to Iraq. Another asinine move on the part of the American forces. This execution is a slap in the face to Sunnis who see the trial as evidence of Shiite revenge and injustice. The trial was a circus from the beginig and should have never taken place. Saddam should have been kept locked up and left out of the picture. Now he gets to be a martyr (mostly becuase of what a joke the trial was). Good luck, American troops.
posted by j-urb at 8:09 PM on December 29, 2006


For sure, keswick. But my point is: this feels hasty and emotional, not just. And few appear to have the stomach to pretend otherwise -- for whatever reason.
posted by Embryo at 8:09 PM on December 29, 2006


I'm watching right now as huge mobs of Iraqis in Dearborn, Michigan are celebrating and dancing in the streets. Many had family members who were executed by Saddam and his government. I don't think by any stretch his death was worth this war, but it was clearly a significant event for a lot of people who are more affected by him than those of us typing on our keyboards.
posted by pardonyou? at 8:09 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Riverbend:
Why make things worse by insisting on Saddam's execution now? Who gains if they hang Saddam? Iran, naturally, but who else? There is a real fear that this execution will be the final blow that will shatter Iraq. Some Sunni and Shia tribes have threatened to arm their members against the Americans if Saddam is executed. Iraqis in general are watching closely to see what happens next, and quietly preparing for the worst.

This is because now, Saddam no longer represents himself or his regime. Through the constant insistence of American war propaganda, Saddam is now representative of all Sunni Arabs (never mind most of his government were Shia). The Americans, through their speeches and news articles and Iraqi Puppets, have made it very clear that they consider him to personify Sunni Arab resistance to the occupation. Basically, with this execution, what the Americans are saying is "Look- Sunni Arabs- this is your man, we all know this. We're hanging him- he symbolizes you." And make no mistake about it, this trial and verdict and execution are 100% American. Some of the actors were Iraqi enough, but the production, direction and montage was pure Hollywood (though low-budget, if you ask me).

That is, of course, why Talbani doesn't want to sign his death penalty- not because the mob man suddenly grew a conscience, but because he doesn't want to be the one who does the hanging- he won't be able to travel far away enough if he does that.
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 8:11 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


From Ogrish:

Upgrading site, please visit back shortly


Actually, Ogrish was "incorporated into" Liveleak.com quite some time ago, effectively killing the site. Now it's just another video sharing site. Pity, really. Ogrishforum.com is still up and kicking though.
posted by bob sarabia at 8:12 PM on December 29, 2006


Yeah, add it to the list of Bush Administration absurdities, forehead-slappers, rage-boilers, politics-over-policy moments, etc. The fact that they didn't keep Saddam out of the picture........................................... these people are supposed to be politicians.
posted by Embryo at 8:12 PM on December 29, 2006


For $3,000,000,000,000 USD AT THE VERY LEAST, I WANT A FUCKING VIDEO CLIP of this Bozo's stringtie!!!1!!1
posted by HyperBlue at 8:13 PM on December 29, 2006


According to Wikipedia, the execution was videotaped and the tape will be rboadcast, so it shouldn't be too hard to find in a few days.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:14 PM on December 29, 2006


I guess these things really do come in threes.

sometimes, you got to help them along a little

ok, i don't quite get what the rush was here ... it seems like the iraqis ... or if you prefer, the american controlled iraqis were just clamoring outside of the prison, waving the execution order around, saying "WE GOTTA DO THIS NOW!!" ... and the u s let them

my opinion is that it would have been more punishment for him to spend the rest of his life rotting in a jail cell

but then maybe he had too many stories to tell, right?

i can't think of this as the worst thing that happened all day in the world ... but it's not the best thing, either
posted by pyramid termite at 8:15 PM on December 29, 2006


who is this riverbend douche and why do people feel compelled to quote him like he is an educated or insightful person?
posted by keswick at 8:15 PM on December 29, 2006


The trial was a circus from the beginig and should have never taken place.

Enh. I think it should have taken place -- in the Netherlands, under the auspices of international justice.
posted by solid-one-love at 8:16 PM on December 29, 2006


who is _________________ and why do people feel compelled to quote him like he is an educated or insightful person?

You have heard of the internet before, right?
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:17 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Republicans ... aw, fuck it.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:17 PM on December 29, 2006


...but he was the only one who knew where the WMD's were. Dang it. Where's Jack Bauer when you need him.
posted by starman at 8:17 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


James Brown...Gerald Ford...Saddam.

We have our celebrity death trifecta. Mickey Rooney can relax awhile longer.
posted by konolia at 8:18 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Balisong, I'll see your "How long before the link to Ogrish.com of the un-official leaked video?" and raise you a "How long until the un-official leaked video and ensuing casket footage are edited into the awesomest Dick in a Box mash-up evar?".
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:21 PM on December 29, 2006


I have a scoop for Drudge direct from my father-in-law. I've been assured that Barack Hussein Obama is secretly flying his flag at half-mast for Sadam, not Gerald.
posted by tfmm at 8:23 PM on December 29, 2006


106 U.S. troop deaths makes December deadliest month in Iraq for 2006

Troop death toll in Iraq exceeds number of 9-11 count

Six soldiers die in three separate roadside attacks

American Troop Death Toll Approaches 3,000; Most Soldiers Died Before 25th Birthday

Over 100,000 Iraqis Flee Homes Last Month


But hey, dead guy. So we got that.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:26 PM on December 29, 2006 [4 favorites]


Saddam has been executed?

I thought Gerry Ford pardoned him?

Oh wait, that was Nixon!

Sorry.
posted by Relay at 8:29 PM on December 29, 2006


I'm actually with Solid on this one, such things should be tried by persons who don't have a conflict of interest, and that includes no one in Iraq. It was how Germany was handled, it was how Serba was handled, and I think makes the most sense.
posted by edgeways at 8:29 PM on December 29, 2006


Well, I don't like the war that we started to root him out (putatively) and I'm disgusted at all the loss of life that's happened in the course of it. But I'd also be lying if I said I felt any sympathy at all for Saddam.
posted by jonmc at 8:30 PM on December 29, 2006


An img tag would be nice
posted by stammer at 8:31 PM on December 29, 2006


I can't wait for the video of the execution to be released so I can watch it over and over, along with the video of the World Trade Center collapsing, over and over, and then maybe I'll watch that putt that Tiger Woods made where the ball hung on the edge of the hole with the Nike swoosh displayed just right...
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 8:33 PM on December 29, 2006


Hey kids, it's time for yet another Choose Your Own MetaFilter Comment Adventure!

1) .|.

or

2) *
posted by loquacious at 8:35 PM on December 29, 2006


Hey, tomorrow we get it on Youtube!
posted by Artw at 8:38 PM on December 29, 2006


I was hoping for "_" myself.
posted by wendell at 8:38 PM on December 29, 2006


CNN is reporting that Shias were dancing around his body singing anti-Sunni songs in the moments after death.

First off, why was the hoi-poloi even present at an execution intended to at least quell some of the animosity in Iraq?

Second, why the fuck can't this administration even pull off a proper execution?

I'll be shedding no tears tonight for a guy who should have done himself and the rest of us a favor by putting a bullet into his brain, but why turn this into reason 10,000 for the Sunnis to hate both the Shia and the US occupation?
posted by bardic at 8:40 PM on December 29, 2006


And now for The Hanging Dot:

?
posted by AmberV at 8:40 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


With all the flags in this country at half-mast, I suspect that more than a few people will think that it's because of Saddam.
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:41 PM on December 29, 2006


Josh Marshall gets it:

Hanging Saddam is easy. It's a job, for once, that these folks can actually see through to completion. So this execution, ironically and pathetically, becomes a stand-in for the failures, incompetence and general betrayal of country on every other front that President Bush has brought us.

President Bush needs something that he can point to and say "Look! I did this! I made this happen!" What's so sad isn't just that it's a hollow victory, the ritual slaughter of a pathetic and broken old man. It's that it's a gigantic mistake.

Saddam's still on trial for genocide; for the murder of a hundred thousand Kurds. This is the kind of trial that's vitally important for the sake of history. The facts get documented and entered into the record, and future generations get a (more or less) reliable recounting of the crimes committed. Killing him now means that trial stops. The historical record gets trampled in the rush to a cheap photo op.

More than that, this makes Saddam into a martyr. Coming rushed on the heels of a trial wracked with procedural incompetence, this can't help but look like Shiite retribution to the average Iraqi on the street, whether Sunni or Shiite, although the personal reaction to that vengeance is obviously going to be different. But it's not going to look like justice. This is going to anger Sunnis and inflame Shiites to more violence. It's gasoline thrown on the fire of the--

Hell, I was going to type insurgency there, but we can't even call it that any more. It's not a civil war, either. It's just anarchy, running loose in the streets, and the government (Iraqi or American) is helpless to control it. This is going to make things worse.

Look, Saddam was a bad, bad, bad, bad man, and although I'm personally more or less opposed to the death penalty, if anybody has it coming, he was probably near the top of the list. I'm not shedding any tears for him, but the man should have shipped off to the Hague to contemplate the rest of his short, miserable days in Slobodan Milosevic's old cell. This is a collosally short-sighted fuck-up; par for the course in our grand Iraqi adventure, in other words.
posted by EarBucket at 8:43 PM on December 29, 2006 [15 favorites]


____(XP)-|--<
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:44 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


!
posted by triolus at 8:49 PM on December 29, 2006


Juan Cole on the execution: "Through the bumbling of the U.S.-backed regime, justice becomes revenge, and a despot becomes a martyr."
posted by bardic at 8:50 PM on December 29, 2006 [4 favorites]


Well fuck.

Not that I'm the biggest fan of mass-murdering dictators, but this makes me feel nauseous. What exactly have we proved?

Fuckety fuck.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 8:51 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


"With all the flags in this country at half-mast, I suspect that more than a few people will think that it's because of Saddam."

I was out of the country when all this deathing happened, so when I came back and saw the flag at half-staff in front of the post office, I thought for a second that it was for James Brown before I remembered hearing that Ford (the Lazenby of presidents) had died. I was laughing for about 4 minutes. I mean, it's not implausible that the nation would mourn the National Funk Congress majority leader, right?
posted by Eideteker at 8:51 PM on December 29, 2006


EarBucket (and Josh Marshall):

Bingo.
posted by StrangeTikiGod at 8:52 PM on December 29, 2006


You know we ordered this done now and not in a month or 2. There'll be a clear reason very soon why it was now. (Iran? the surge? ...)
posted by amberglow at 8:52 PM on December 29, 2006


FYI, 94% of death penalties were carried out in China, the U.S., Iran, and Saudi Arabia. Dozens of countries kill people.
posted by kozad at 8:53 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


They should have thrown him in Rudolph Hess's old cell for the rest of his life.


Oh well.

Boohoo for Saddam, couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
posted by a3matrix at 8:55 PM on December 29, 2006


There'll be a clear reason very soon why it was now.

A Muslim holiday starts tomorrow. In addition to PR, it's an actual Iraqi law -- prisoners can't be executed during said holiday.
posted by bardic at 8:55 PM on December 29, 2006


fu sh!
posted by clyde at 8:55 PM on December 29, 2006


Not being surprised, I'm at least glad they took care of this based on a convinction of crimes which he did under our 'seal of approval' at the time. If anything, does Saddam's lesson not prove to our 'allies' that we'll soon as string you up when you're no longer willing to play ball?

bad riddance, though.
he was good for much more deposition.

I'd like to hope that this serves Iraq in any constructive way possible.
posted by Busithoth at 8:56 PM on December 29, 2006


Kozad: Yes, and how many of those countries listed are third-world nations? And how many are first-world nations?

Face it, we're the only country on the list that's not a backwater nation, repressive theocracy or a communist nation notorious for egregious human rights violations.
posted by StrangeTikiGod at 8:57 PM on December 29, 2006


So truly, no more Tiger Hand?

:(
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:57 PM on December 29, 2006


As long as Castro dies by wednesday I'll beat the spread
posted by svenvog at 8:58 PM on December 29, 2006


So did he get a death erection? The taxpayers have a right to know if they finally got the snuff film they paid for.
posted by homunculus at 8:58 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Freedom is well hung.
posted by bardic at 8:59 PM on December 29, 2006


Thanks for the memories flash
posted by hortense at 9:00 PM on December 29, 2006


From the Bush check list:

2 supreme court judges - check!
Billions & billions in permanent tax cuts to friends- check!
Kill Saddam - check!

- The guy is actually getting his agenda done, step by step
posted by growabrain at 9:00 PM on December 29, 2006


Eid Mubarak!
posted by jimfl at 9:05 PM on December 29, 2006


James Brown, Gerald Ford and now Saddam. It's true - they do come in 3s...
posted by crank at 9:07 PM on December 29, 2006


They sure do.
posted by EarBucket at 9:10 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


I wonder what kind of rope they used.
posted by liquorice at 9:11 PM on December 29, 2006


...and why do I have "go go power rangers!" stuck in my head now?
posted by liquorice at 9:12 PM on December 29, 2006


This thread is useless without pictures.
posted by turducken at 9:15 PM on December 29, 2006


What you all are saying here about how awful his killing is, is just so weird for me to read. I don't see any reason to keep him alive. He deserves it and more. People, the Shiites and Sunni's don't NEED an excuse to kill each other-they will do it anyway. The country is already in the shitter and in a serious civil war. If this gives a few thousand survivors of his terror a reason to dance for a while, then great. The rest will kill just they would of had he rotted in prison.

This SOB deserves to die and I'm glad it was by a good old fashioned hanging. If he killed, raped, and destroyed hunge numbers of my family and friends with impunity, I would have liked to see him drawn & quartered, as well. And then I'd go piss on his grave.

I really see this as the only good thing that has come out of the stupid useless war.

But I see I am in the minority here.
posted by aacheson at 9:17 PM on December 29, 2006


Osama bin Laden will certainly rejoice, along with Bush and Blair. And there's a thought. So many crimes avenged.
But we will have got away with it.

posted by leftcoastbob at 9:17 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


If he'd been blown to bits in his hidey-hole, or suffered an 'unexpected' heart attack in his cell, I'd feel a lot less uncomfortable, particularly given that the timing was a deliberate fuck-you to Iraq's Sunnis, who consider today the start of Eid ul-Adha.

New regimes put the old ones on trial. It's a long precedent, but it's not always a good one. And this isn't even the trial of Louis XVI or Charles I. Still, there's nothing George W. Bush likes more than an execution, so he's got one as a late present.
posted by holgate at 9:22 PM on December 29, 2006


Wouldn't it have "healed the nation" (of Iraq) to just pardon Saddam instead?
posted by amberglow at 9:23 PM on December 29, 2006


Something else to think about--if the genocide trial had gone ahead, it's likely that some very uncomfortable allegations would have surfaced about American support for Saddam's regime in the 1980's. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that Saddam was rushed to the gallows to keep his mouth shut.
posted by EarBucket at 9:23 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


Killing people to show that killing is wrong, etc.

I totally feel safer now. I'm sure all nobody's going to freak out and go on a killing spree because of this event.
/sarcasm

The only bright side is that things are so fucked up in Iraq as is, it's going to take a lot of work to make it worse. They did indeed make him a martyr. We all would've been better served with him getting older and crazier, and living out his days in a cell.
posted by mullingitover at 9:24 PM on December 29, 2006


Death fetishism is disgusting. The death 'penalty' is disgusting. No matter how repellent and awful a man Hussein was (and, lest we forget, he was eagerly aided and abetted by the CIA, and almost certainly the very top echelons of the US government), killing him served no rational fucking purpose whatsoever.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:24 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Except it feels good when it's your family that was murdered and raped to see him die.
posted by aacheson at 9:27 PM on December 29, 2006


Stupid.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:28 PM on December 29, 2006


So, are the Sunnis going to take revenge?
posted by amberglow at 9:31 PM on December 29, 2006


What Earbucket said. If I understand correctly, Saddam was not convicted of genocide (although this is what the lap-dogs in the American press will surely call it). He was convicted (rightfully) of signing the death-warrants for roughly 180 Kurds. Splitting hairs I guess, but the United States could by no means allow for a trial on genocide charges, given the fact that they occured under a Reagan administration that was more than happy to supply him with all the chemical WMD's he wanted (and strangely enough, there's some evidence that Israel gave him lots of intelligence too, since it was used against those enemies-of-enemies, Iran).
posted by bardic at 9:33 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


I can't quote it, but the line about when it ever becomes moral for a group of persons to do what it would be immoral for one individual of the group to do is appropriate here, aacheson - if your answer is "never", then capital punishment is wrong for anyone, no matter how many of your family was murdered and raped on that person's orders.

A bad man is dead. Worse things will surely come.
posted by yhbc at 9:33 PM on December 29, 2006


So, are the Sunnis going to take revenge?

Yes. It's called "American occupation of Iraq ca. 2006."
posted by bardic at 9:33 PM on December 29, 2006


Man, I'm glad that's over. This means we won the War on Terror, right? *Whew* It was getting pretty dicey for a while there.
posted by bob sarabia at 9:35 PM on December 29, 2006


Fox News brings a delicate hand and dispassionate eye to the complex issues of our times as always.
posted by StopMakingSense at 9:40 PM on December 29, 2006 [4 favorites]


Doesn't this feel like every other bit of big news related to this clusterfuck of a war?

Statue toppled, thunder runs, mission accomplished, Saddam captured, his sons killed, elections, Zarqawi killed, elections, Saddam hung. Always something that is big news, a major change, some turning point. Media frenzy, pundits squawking in full plumage, somebody generates some theme music for segment intros.

And then it turns out it's just another event in a place where events are outrunning people's abilities to even respond to them, let alone influence them.

In two months will it be apparent that Saddam's hanging was of no major importance, because the important things aren't involving the past actors, but the people involved in the present in Iraq?

Does it seem like the US has no effective influence over Iraq, and hasn't for some time? Is George Bush as irrelevant to Iraq as Saddam?

Maybe America's part in the Iraq War has been over for some time, and we just haven't noticed yet.
posted by dglynn at 9:48 PM on December 29, 2006 [3 favorites]


I really, really thought that it was likely that Saddam was somehow going to escape our clutches last minute and regain control of Iraq. Oh well. Now I have to wait until January 22nd for Prison Break to come back on Fox.
posted by premiumpolar at 9:52 PM on December 29, 2006


Juan Cole on the execution: "Through the bumbling of the U.S.-backed regime, justice becomes revenge, and a despot becomes a martyr."
posted by bardic at 8:50 PM PST on December 29 [+]


So much for letting the dust settle, eh Juan? I mean, as likely as this eventuality seems, I've seen little evidence that Iraqi Sunnis as a whole consider Saddam an icon or leader among them. Don't you have to, like, like someone before you can view them as a martyr?

Juan's right, it's the timing of this, and the American management of it, that make it so glaringly stupid. But not because anyone cares about Saddam -- because it will make Iraqis more enraged about what the United States has done/is doing to Iraq.
posted by Embryo at 9:53 PM on December 29, 2006


Saddam used his power of evil to make one last attempt on Bush's life. A little too close for my comfort.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 9:54 PM on December 29, 2006


dglynn, America's part in the war is mostly to shuttle around 20 year old kids in hummers around so they can get blown up by IEDs, drop bombs from F-16s on buildings (the news hardly ever mentions these daily occurences), misappropriate reconstruction funds, and generally look like two year olds who aren't quite sure how to to wipe their asses or use the toilet effectively.

That and test new weapons.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:54 PM on December 29, 2006


premiumpolar: I had mused about that possibility as well. I actually was just a moment ago musing about the possibility that this was rushed not because of politics but because if things happen quickly, it's easier to fool people. Maybe we haven't seen the last of Mr. Hussein...?
posted by Embryo at 9:55 PM on December 29, 2006


Embryo, CNN says that the Iraqis will release footage and photos to the media soon.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:57 PM on December 29, 2006


How long does it take to use Photoshop/AfterEffects?
posted by Embryo at 9:58 PM on December 29, 2006


Just a thought.
posted by Embryo at 9:58 PM on December 29, 2006


Maybe America's part in the Iraq War has been over for some time, and we just haven't noticed yet.

Nope--not til we've secured the oil.
posted by amberglow at 10:02 PM on December 29, 2006


GOOD              BAD               EVIL
|-----------------time--------------------->
J. Brown    G. Ford      S. Hussein      ?

posted by wfrgms at 10:02 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


Burhanistan: As someone who has a brother who served and was injured in Iraq, and who told me about it, your assessment is quite similar to his.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 10:03 PM on December 29, 2006


Oh, c'mon. Everyone knows Soul Brother #1 was SUPER BAD
posted by docgonzo at 10:06 PM on December 29, 2006 [2 favorites]



Rumsfeld: One day, you'll pay for this, Saddam.
Hussein: (blinks) ...What?
Rumsfeld: Haha! Just kidding. I had you going for a second there, no?
Hussein: Ha Ha Ha HA! Ha. Don, don't do that shit to me.
Rumsfeld: Right, sorry. ...So..... anyway, you'll be executed just before dawn, so nobody can tell that it's really not you, and that you've actually been secreted away.
Hussein: Sweet. Can I go to Elba? I heard that place was awesome.
Rumsfeld: Sure, whatever. All right, time to go teabag Cheney.
Hussein: Ha Ha! All right Don. Whatever that means.
Rumsfeld: I love how we always understand each other.
(the pair shakes, camera flashes)
posted by Embryo at 10:07 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]




He was delicious.
posted by cerulgalactus at 10:07 PM on December 29, 2006




yeah, pretend this was above what I just posted.
posted by Embryo at 10:08 PM on December 29, 2006


...this. (what's going on?)
posted by Embryo at 10:09 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty sure this is the keynote event of the Necrophiliac Masturbator Pride Festival.

I'm just going to stand back and watch as formerly respected folks give unequivocal evidence that they like to wank off to death, dying and decay.
posted by isopraxis at 10:12 PM on December 29, 2006


I wish I lived in a world that was cut and dry enough for death, dying and decay to be above "wanking off" about.
posted by Embryo at 10:16 PM on December 29, 2006


Except it feels good when it's your family that was murdered and raped to see him die.
posted by aacheson


I understand why people were out for Saddam's blood. What I'm not seeing is a reason to have his blood on our hands.
posted by leftcoastbob at 10:18 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Hey guys, Embryo here. I just read a CNN article about Saddam being executed in response to his killing of Kurds in response to an assassination attempt in response to him being an oppressive dictator, and it was fuckin depressing. Just depressing. So yeah. I mean you should probably check it out. But yeah, don't expect it to be too awesome.
posted by Embryo at 10:21 PM on December 29, 2006


Sic semper tyrannis.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:21 PM on December 29, 2006


Isopraxis: true enough. The same people who also enjoy going over space shuttle explosions and twin tower collapses. They've passed the threshold where there's a sense of "good" and "bad"...it's just more carnage to ogle and ogle some more. Kind of like their petting a little puppy or something.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:24 PM on December 29, 2006


and they're petting their puppy
posted by Burhanistan at 10:25 PM on December 29, 2006


Face it, we're the only country on the list that's not a backwater nation, repressive theocracy or a communist (edit: any) nation notorious for egregious human rights violations.
posted by StrangeTikiGod at 8:57 PM PST on December 29

Yet.


I support capital punishment in extreme cases. I certainly do not support it to the extent it is currently used in the US. There is no question that this man deserved to be punished; even to die for the things that he did.

But this? This made me feel dirty inside. This was not right. The way this was done was indecent. I feel like we've been set back about a thousand years, as a species. This could have been done...better.

And I know these questions have already been asked, but they bear repeating, and I really want to know the answers to them:

Where is Osama? Where are the impeachment proceedings against Dubya et al? Where are the trials and executions of all the other dictators and fuckwits running around viciously murdering people in ways and numbers Hussein could only dream of in his wildest fantasies? Where was our outrage when he was perpetrating these crimes against humanity under our watchful eye?

Meh. I'm going to go get loaded. I only hope that the people who were personally affected by Hussein's madness and brutality are able to find some closure, some sense of peace, so that at least a little bit of good can come out of an otherwise truly shit situation.
posted by perilous at 10:27 PM on December 29, 2006 [5 favorites]


I'm glad I didn't get Saddam a 2007 calendar for Christmas.
posted by mazola at 10:31 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


OK, so Saddam is dead. WHERE THE FUCK IS OSAMA?
posted by Effigy2000 at 10:32 PM on December 29, 2006


. . . Only, now in the petting and wanking, comes the sensation that dead puppies are just as useful, if not preferable to live ones.
posted by isopraxis at 10:39 PM on December 29, 2006


Osama is in the sovereign country of Pakistan.
posted by homunculus at 10:40 PM on December 29, 2006


Oh H-E-double hockey sticks!!! Now we'll never know if all the evil in the world was because of Saddam or James Brown.

Either way the path is no clear for the inelegant pelvic thrusting of old white men everywhere. Huzzah!!!



I'm curious to see who will try to spin Saddam into a martyr first. My money's on the Libertarians. ooo no wait, Green Party.
posted by SinisterPurpose at 10:48 PM on December 29, 2006


Osama is still festering in the hearts and minds of scared Americans, which is right where he wanted to be.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:48 PM on December 29, 2006


Shave the inside of your skull.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:49 PM on December 29, 2006


Osama bin Laden doesn't scare me, but that he and his family are still not in custody only highlights how much the current administration is a corrupt embarassment.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:52 PM on December 29, 2006


I kinda agree with ya perilous. I feel profoundly disturbed about how this has happened, abiet it was not the decision of the U.S. to have him hanged, rather the Iraqi tribunal.

I get somewhat reminded of a lesson learned by the many acts of vengeance within our societies....does it make our lives and our future better? I'm inclined to say no...but then I'd get into why I'm against punishment by death which has been a beaten horse topic, and I'm set in my views as to why.

As long as there is this ferverent need to cause the death of others, the problems will continue to exist in Iraq....as it is almost seen as a neccessary means to an end, almost conditioned in its application to the conflicts at hand.

I've watched a bit of coverage, heard how many felt the execution was neccessary to end the sectarian conflicts, how others felt it would only cause more violence. It's like watching weather forcasters predicting the course of a storm years from now...much akin to the vagueness of a fortune teller. You can't predict the future, you can only anticipate, you can only do the right things "now" and hope for the best.

It's a day of closure for many today, but for me, feels like it is also a day of sadness for humanity's grasp of itself.
posted by samsara at 10:58 PM on December 29, 2006


This world was never meant for one as beautiful as you.
posted by sourwookie at 11:00 PM on December 29, 2006


This thread really can't go anywhere good. Stare at this excellent Mandelbrot zoom for awhile instead.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:05 PM on December 29, 2006


WHERE THE FUCK IS OSAMA?
Unfortunately, bin Laden was a really good hider.

"Fuck Saddam. We're taking him out." -- George W. Bush, March 2002

"After all, this is the guy who tried to kill my dad." Or did he? Maybe not.

Saddam, they said you was hung!
And they was right!

From the Wikipedia page (at least for now):
AND THEN THE DONKEYS WERE LIKE WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
posted by kirkaracha at 11:06 PM on December 29, 2006


Don't you have to, like, like someone before you can view them as a martyr?

No.

This is my only objection to hanging Saddam Hussein.

I wish I lived in a world that was cut and dry enough for death, dying and decay to be above "wanking off" about.

The cliché is "cut and dried" -- and please do feel free to put "wanking off" above any of your other potential activities. I suspect that's where your true gift lies.
posted by vetiver at 11:06 PM on December 29, 2006


.
posted by blacklite at 11:15 PM on December 29, 2006


Finally hung him, eh? Well, I never really liked him.
posted by hojoki at 11:19 PM on December 29, 2006


someone was going to do it, weren't they?

Oh come on, pyramid_termite. Someone was going to steal that car with the unlocked doors, weren't they? Someone was going to eat that pie on the windowsill, weren't they? If it wasn't you, the very next man to come along would have shot that stray cat for sport, wouldn't he?

Thanks for stooping to your lowest expectations of folks and validating/exemplifying them for everyone watching. How that act is an excuse for itself is totally beyond me.
posted by scarabic at 11:28 PM on December 29, 2006


wow - so the guy that the US (especially the Reagan and Bush Senior administration) supported while he did the crimes he was hung tonight for those very crimes... while the Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney and the rest of the criminals who did support him in the past clapped and clinked their champagne glasses together. my first question when I heard this was: who is responsible for more innocent Iraqi civilian death and destruction? George W. Bush? or Saddam Hussein? ... I think we know the answer.
posted by specialk420 at 11:31 PM on December 29, 2006


Is it just me or is the Middle East spiraling even more out of control?
posted by j-urb at 11:34 PM on December 29, 2006


It's important to remember that not capturing Osama is not a failure, but rather, it's a success that hasn't occurred yet.
posted by homunculus at 11:39 PM on December 29, 2006


Here's a contrarian's view:

Saddam Hussein was an evil despot who was responsible for the murder and torture of thousands of people. He is one of the most despicable characters in recent history. He threatened the United States, plotted the assassination of American Presidents, and developed and deployed weapons of mass destruction. The world is a better place with Saddam gone, and we can hope that his fall from power, capture, trial, and execution will serve as a deterrent to other evil men who might have designs on using the machinery of the state to commit mass murder.

It is a good thing that Saddam Hussein was executed after a trial conducted by Iraqis, where evidence of Saddam's murders was brought forward and where Iraqi judges did their best fairly to weigh all of the evidence presented, despite the defendant's best efforts to disrupt the proceedings. While we can pick nits about aspects of the trial, or about the war in Iraq, or about the death penalty more generally, Saddam's execution is a milestone that might help thousands or tens of thousands of his victims feel that there is some sense of justice in the world, even if that justice came at the cost of upheaval and even human casualties.
posted by Slap Factory at 11:40 PM on December 29, 2006


Is it just me or is the Middle East spiraling even more out of control?

You ain't seen nothin' yet.
posted by homunculus at 11:43 PM on December 29, 2006


Kirklander said it best.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 11:44 PM on December 29, 2006


The best plan I heard for getting out of this was pressing his uniform, and putting him back in power before we evacuate. I don't care that he is dead, but it is incredibly stupid to have done this while we occupy the country. No one will believe this was legitimate, or that the US was not pulling the strings. The 21st century should not suck this much.
posted by thirteen at 11:45 PM on December 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


And this, as I'm still mourning James Brown. Speaking of which, have you heard the live version of "Ain't it Funky Now" with Bootsy and Catfish from "Star Time?" Holy god.

Listen to that, and forget this. His death changes nothing.
posted by raysmj at 11:47 PM on December 29, 2006


veltiver, I love how you just called me a wanker, and then in the same comment, also corrected my use of a phrase, even though the difference between the proper phrasing and what i wrote was completely irrelevant as to the meaning -- both of the phrase itself, and my comment.

My point stands -- if you're too serious to let other people be silly, you're fuckin' silly.

p.s. I made several very serious comments in this thread, along with the less serious ones.
posted by Embryo at 11:54 PM on December 29, 2006


Well, this does nix one of the better exit strategies I've heard. We can no longer apologize politely to the world and reinstall Saddam.
posted by kid ichorous at 11:59 PM on December 29, 2006


What thirteen said above. Jinx.
posted by kid ichorous at 12:00 AM on December 30, 2006


Slap Factory: I can't see how this execution will help anyone believe in justice. Rather, it seems to demonstrate that when the US Government say they're your friend and shake your hand, it probably means that sooner or later they will have you killed.
posted by stammer at 12:12 AM on December 30, 2006


Curses to getting drunk with friends while news is happening. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, though, really.
posted by wandering steve at 12:19 AM on December 30, 2006


Stammer -- You really think that family members of Saddam's victims would not consider Saddam's death just retribution?

Also, aren't there scores or hundreds of officials from foreign countries who have shaken hands with high-ranking U.S. officials over the years? (President Bush recently gave an awkward back rub to Angela Merkel, for instance, but I do not think that she is in any danger of being deposed, tried, and executed.) Aren't the better predictors of the United States seeking to "have you killed" that you have become an international pariah through murdering tens of thousands of people, developing and using weapons of mass destruction, and plotted to assassinate presidents of the United States?
posted by Slap Factory at 12:24 AM on December 30, 2006


I find this execution to be simultaneously an important historical event and a meaningless piece of theatre. It is symbolically extremely powerful, as it shows naked American hypocrisy to a blinding degree. And I can't help feel angry myself, as the news stations recount Saddam's biography and carefully omit any involvement by the CIA.

The news claims it's all party hats in confetti in Iraq today, but I have substantial doubts. This is exactly the sort of Roman Empire madness that insurgents will rightly grab ahold of.
posted by mek at 12:25 AM on December 30, 2006


Slap Factory writes "Here's a contrarian's view:"

Thank you for this fresh perspective. I've been watching Fox and the rest of the mainstream press, and they're all blah blah capital punishment is immoral blah blah he had US backing all along blah. Damned liberal media.
posted by mullingitover at 1:03 AM on December 30, 2006


Crosses out CAPTURED on Ace of Spades, writes DEAD.
posted by portisfreak at 1:12 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]


All because of a hanging chad
We end up hanging Saddam
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 1:15 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


CNN is reporting that he died wih "fear in his face" which contradicts other (BBC) comments, and the latest video footage, where he appears calm, almost dignified. Also, the BBC keep mentioning that when he was captured he was "cowering in a hole", but I'm sure I read something that stated this wasn't the case and was just propoganda. Can anyone provide a link to this cos its bothering me?
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 1:29 AM on December 30, 2006


Uncle Saddam

A documentary about the life of Saddam Hussein.

[Google Video / 63 Minutes]
posted by homodigitalis at 1:30 AM on December 30, 2006




Is it just me, or the ski masks look really shady?
posted by portisfreak at 1:33 AM on December 30, 2006


Oops. Link.
posted by portisfreak at 1:34 AM on December 30, 2006


Looks like something to leaked.
posted by portisfreak at 1:41 AM on December 30, 2006


Err, got leaked.
posted by portisfreak at 1:42 AM on December 30, 2006


Slap Factory, I presume you were giving us a demonstration of how it's possible to prove just about anything by picking the right talking points. If so, I'm impressed.
posted by cillit bang at 2:06 AM on December 30, 2006


looks downright dapper in that scarf, portisfreak
good find!
posted by tsarfan at 2:39 AM on December 30, 2006


Rumor has it the complete video will be distributed soon ! Suprising ?
Wiki thread with world leaders reactions
posted by elpapacito at 2:47 AM on December 30, 2006


Also , on a tangent : why humanizing after years of dehumanizing of Saddam ?
posted by elpapacito at 3:05 AM on December 30, 2006


What a world we live in.

THE TYRANT IS DEAD! RELEASE THE VIDEO ON THE INTERNET TO SATIATE THE PUBLICS BLOOD LUST!
posted by Effigy2000 at 3:36 AM on December 30, 2006


Robert Fisk: a dictator created then destroyed by America.
posted by The God Complex at 3:40 AM on December 30, 2006


The video of the noose being placed on Saddam Hussein is now also being shown on CNN as well as on the Repubblica Italia/tv al-Hurra link that portisfreak found.

According to AsiaNews.it, Iraqi television initially said Saddam's half-brothers Barzan Ibrahim and Awad Hamed al-Bandar were hanged too. But National Security adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie, who attended the execution, later said the two men would be hanged after the Muslim holiday Eid al-Adha, which started today and ends in the first week of January.
posted by nickyskye at 3:42 AM on December 30, 2006


Another generation of angry terrorists successfully bred.
posted by fire&wings at 3:46 AM on December 30, 2006


Also, aren't there scores or hundreds of officials from foreign countries who have shaken hands with high-ranking U.S. officials over the years? (President Bush recently gave an awkward back rub to Angela Merkel, for instance, but I do not think that she is in any danger of being deposed, tried, and executed.) Aren't the better predictors of the United States seeking to "have you killed" that you have become an international pariah through murdering tens of thousands of people, developing and using weapons of mass destruction, and plotted to assassinate presidents of the United States?

You really should read the article I just posted. The United States wants to "have you killed" when you've outlived your use and it would make for good press. That's pretty much it. Up until that point, you can gas and kill whoever you want--even better, you can use your weapons of mass destruction on people the American government wants you to kill, and you'll get a handshake and some kickbacks.
posted by The God Complex at 3:48 AM on December 30, 2006


Alvy Ampersand: "____(XP)-|--<"

(XP)-|-< might have been put to death, but (VISTA)-|-< is born to take it's place!
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:53 AM on December 30, 2006


.
posted by fandango_matt at 10:20 PM EST on December 29 [+ 1 favorite]


marked as a favorite by mathowie
posted by nickyskye at 4:03 AM on December 30, 2006


marked as a favorite by mathowie

And by flapjax at midnite. But it was a mistake. I'm gonna remove it. In a couple of days.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:38 AM on December 30, 2006


a sad day for america

Al Jazeera has this take on it
posted by altman at 4:56 AM on December 30, 2006


Here's camraphone footage of the body.
posted by tapeguy at 5:37 AM on December 30, 2006


The Bush regime wants yout to be stuck with the moral scar of having seen Saddam hung. Don't play into their hands, don't watch the videos.
posted by furtive at 5:40 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


It's important to remember that not capturing Osama is not a failure, but rather, it's a success that hasn't occurred yet.
-- Homeland Security Department Advisor, Fran Twonsend

I suspect she pulled this from someone's (we won't say whose) daily affirmations:

I am not a failure. I am a success that hasn't occurred yet.
I am not a failure. I am a success that hasn't occurred yet.
I am not a failure. I am a success that hasn't occurred yet.
I am not a failure. I am a success that hasn't occurred yet.
I am not a failure. I am a success that hasn't occurred yet.

and so on, mix with brushing of teeth, pulling open of eyes while staring into mirror, splashing of cold water on face, rubbing of neck.
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 5:47 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


Happy New Year, homunculus. It's all champagne and confetti over at the American Enterprise Institute.
posted by maryh at 5:55 AM on December 30, 2006


Required Reading.

It's a few years old, but good.
posted by god hates math at 5:55 AM on December 30, 2006


Hey, you know what I didn't need to see first thing this morning? A picture of Saddam Hussein with a noose around his neck on the front page of CNN.com. Whatever happened to the days when there was a little warning of "sensitive material" ahead, click at your own risk. We're not all bloodthirsty animals who want to see someone (no matter how evil) killed, or about to be killed.
posted by amro at 5:56 AM on December 30, 2006


On a derailing tangent : It is ok to see murdered bodies, acts of violence, titillating flagellations of christs, but it is NOT ok to see intercourse on tv.

Back on the topic :
the two men would be hanged after the Muslim holiday Eid al-Adha
Casual ? Let's see what Eid ul-Adha may be ...

celebrated by Muslims worldwide as a commemoration of Prophet Ibrahim's willingness to sacrifice his son Ismael for Allah.

Uh oh...hanging a leader on this day...uhm...on a day of sacrifice of...INNOCENT ?
People in these days are expected to visit their relations, starting from their parents, then their families and friends.
Bloody perfect, what will their talking topic be ? Bingo ? Britney ? Or the fact an eastern leader was hanged by americans in a sacred occourrence ? Who knows !

Maybe somebody really really want to piss off some factions, incite some more fighting, there are more reasons to remain another 3-4 years I guess ? Who could benefit for this, like, increased price of oil, cost plus accounting, military spending ? It must be the ketchup producing liberals.... I KNOW ! It is a secret plot to destroy all of Iraqui tomatoes !
posted by elpapacito at 6:10 AM on December 30, 2006 [2 favorites]


Uh oh...hanging a leader on this day...uhm...on a day of sacrifice of...INNOCENT ?

it gets worse ... according to sunnis, the holiday begins saturday, but according to shi'ites, it begins sunday

a possible interpretation is that of the shi'ites saying "screw you" to the sunnis ... nice, eh?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:16 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


When are they going to do his friend Rumsfeld? I want to see that video.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:22 AM on December 30, 2006


shi'ites saying "screw you" to the sunnis ... nice, eh?

Possible, unless they also see it as possible provocation to further divide (and conquer, divide et impera isn't exactly a new strategy) Iraq ..after all it is no secret the current govt is an american creation...and that nobody could have forced the yanks to "give up" Saddam exactly today and not a few days later.
posted by elpapacito at 6:23 AM on December 30, 2006


Oh, and finaly something about this war too easy to screw up. Capturing and killing Saddam is the only "success" these guys have been able to claim, which is why they work it like it mattered.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:24 AM on December 30, 2006


Now Satan has a brand new demon working for him.
posted by bwg at 6:25 AM on December 30, 2006


Ops forgot: Saddam alleged last words , among others, were an extortation to iraqui people to "remain united "
posted by elpapacito at 6:25 AM on December 30, 2006


Did you see the pictures yet? The "officials" doing the dirty work look like they borrowed their ski masks from the guys that decapitated that soldier*, and their stylish, "Thugs-R-Us" jackets from the 9/11 hijackers. And the location? >>"Gentlemen, we've got to carry out a somber and serious official task with all kinds of significance for our new government. Let's do it out in the garage."

*The soldier's name was Nick Berg.
posted by Trochanter at 6:35 AM on December 30, 2006


Nick Berg wasn't a soldier: he was a guy in Iraq putting up cable towers.

But yes, the tribunal picked out one of Saddam's crimes that didn't require discussing either the support or the blind eye of the countries that invaded Iraq in 2003. And yes, this is victors' justice. And yes, it was timed as a calculated insult to the Sunni majority.

I don't mourn the bastard, but the utter tawdriness of this is like lipstick on a stuck pig. But George Bush tells us that it's a milestone for this burgeoning democracy that they dangled Saddam from a rope, as he slept through it all, just as he slept through the deaths of those Texas inmates he signed off on like they were Visa stubs at a restaurant.
posted by holgate at 6:51 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


holgate: sorry man but you can't just hang that on Bush , he is just a punching sack, a convenient expendable scapegoat that took minor shit...he wasn't hanged so I guess he got it easy.

Idiot ? Yeah he is no bright bulb at all . Seelping throught executions ? Like billions of people. Responsible for _everything_ in Iraq and US ? Nope, that's bullshit.
posted by elpapacito at 6:59 AM on December 30, 2006


Mullingitover -- Are you saying that almost everyone here who disagrees with me has the real contrarian view? I guess context is important.
posted by Slap Factory at 7:03 AM on December 30, 2006


|
*

(asshole at the end of a rope,see?)

my condolences to george galloway
posted by reality at 7:03 AM on December 30, 2006


I don't see how Saddam's execution will aid in stability to Iraq.

It is instability that is the goal, and Bush is doing an outstanding job. If Iraq were stable, we wouldn't need to hang around and help them protect our oil.
posted by crispynubbins at 7:05 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


Cilit -- Not sure what you mean. Wasn't using talking points. I think that mass murder and genocide and the use of chemical weapons on civilians (or otherwise for that matter) are evil acts, and all evidence I have ever seen or read indicates that Saddam was an evil man. The fact that he was tried and convicted and then executed for his crimes in a country where he previously could order rape or torture or disappearance at will seems just to me. I wish it had happened to Hitler or Pol Pot or Stalin, too.
posted by Slap Factory at 7:10 AM on December 30, 2006


.
posted by lester's sock puppet at 7:10 AM on December 30, 2006


sorry man but you can't just hang that on Bush , he is just a punching sack

Well, he's more responsible than most. He may be a punching sack now but when things were peachy* he was our glory sack. Or something.

*relative term
posted by maryh at 7:11 AM on December 30, 2006


Let's do it out in the garage.

Too bad they couldn't wait a couple of days. They could have gotten a prime time cameo of Saddam dropping with the ball on Dick Clark's New Year's Rockin' Eve.
posted by crispynubbins at 7:13 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]


A Muslim holiday starts tomorrow. In addition to PR, it's an actual Iraqi law -- prisoners can't be executed during said holiday.

Just so long as he doesn't rise again on the third day. That'd be awkward.
posted by Alt F4 at 7:19 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]


So, which torturing murdering world leader should we try next?
posted by washburn at 7:23 AM on December 30, 2006


Nick Berg wasn't a soldier: he was a guy in Iraq putting up cable towers.


We're all soldiers, pal. Soldiers in the war of putting up cable towers.
posted by Trochanter at 7:40 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


I think that mass murder and genocide and the use of chemical weapons on civilians (or otherwise for that matter) are evil acts, and all evidence I have ever seen or read indicates that Saddam was an evil man.

Funny thing is, he wasn't convicted on any of those big charges. He wasn't convicted on the Nuremberg charge of waging aggressive war (for rather obvious reasons) and the genocide charges are now mooted. The tribunal's remit was to nab him on 'second-degree dictatorship', something relatively and domestic with minimal embarrassment for his jailers.

Like I said, if you're going to do summary justice, just shoot the evil fucker in a back room or hang him from a lamppost and be done with it. Don't dress it up as some kind of triumph for democracy and the judicial process while the bombs are going off outside.
posted by holgate at 7:55 AM on December 30, 2006 [2 favorites]


.
posted by delmoi at 8:27 AM on December 30, 2006


particularly given that the timing was a deliberate fuck-you to Iraq's Sunnis, who consider today the start of Eid ul-Adha.

First explanation I've heard for the weird-ass timing that;s made much sense.

Of course I was mainly looking for American political motives...
posted by Artw at 8:34 AM on December 30, 2006


The US government helped determine the execution date. A federal judge in Washington DC denied [PDF] Saddam's request for a stay. (And here I thought Iraq had "real and full sovereignty.")

John Marshall:
This whole endeavor, from the very start, has been about taking tawdry, cheap acts and dressing them up in a papier-mache grandeur -- phony victory celebrations, ersatz democratization, reconstruction headed up by toadies, con artists and grifters. And this is no different. Hanging Saddam is easy. It's a job, for once, that these folks can actually see through to completion. So this execution, ironically and pathetically, becomes a stand-in for the failures, incompetence and general betrayal of country on every other front that President Bush has brought us.
Meanwhile, 108 Americans have been killed in Iraq this month, making it not just the "deadliest month in 2006," but the third-deadliest month of the entire war. The only two months that saw more Americans killed were April and November 2004, during the assaults on Fallujah.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:43 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]


Well then it makes no fucking sense at all.

Though you get mild irony points for giving him a sham trial and then a summary execution.
posted by Artw at 8:46 AM on December 30, 2006


Not sure what you mean. Wasn't using talking points.

Yes you were, even if you thought of them yourself, and even if the statements you made are technically true. You've isolated the few aspects of the case against Saddam that don't make us look like idiots/savages/hypocrites, reworded and exaggerated them to sound as bad as possible, and completely ignored the larger reality of what's happened. This is what spindoctors are paid to do.
posted by cillit bang at 8:48 AM on December 30, 2006


I love Tony Hendra's headline: Former American Puppet Executed By Current American Puppets.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 8:50 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


So the US is just handing Iraq over to the Shiites, right?
posted by bshort at 8:57 AM on December 30, 2006


FYI, 94% of death penalties were carried out in China, the U.S Texas, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

Fixed that for you. (Seriously Texas kills like 20-50 times as many people as the rest of the US combined)
posted by delmoi at 8:58 AM on December 30, 2006


So it goes.
posted by brevator at 8:59 AM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


Slap Factory writes "Aren't the better predictors of the United States seeking to 'have you killed' that you have become an international pariah through murdering tens of thousands of people, developing and using weapons of mass destruction, and plotted to assassinate presidents of the United States?"

...all of which, except for the assassination attempt, were backed by the USA, supplied by the USA, used (IIRC) troops trained by the USA.

What was your point again?

Slap Factory writes "I think that mass murder and genocide and the use of chemical weapons on civilians (or otherwise for that matter) are evil acts"

Yes. But was he convicted of those? No.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:59 AM on December 30, 2006


delmoi - does that mean we can expect to see a body worlds exebition stocked entirely with Texans any time soon then?
posted by Artw at 9:04 AM on December 30, 2006


By the way, John Marshall was one of the most levelheaded guys on the blogsphere for a long time. He was known mostly for being the guy who would actually call people up and do research, and his major point was to oppose social security privatization. I remember hearing someone say "When I want a centrist opinion, I read TPM" He's really been radicalized lately, it's interesting to that kind of passion out of him.
posted by delmoi at 9:04 AM on December 30, 2006


I think Marshall's maybe the best blogger working right now. I don't think he's gotten any less levelheaded; he's just pissed off. As he should be. As we all should be.
posted by EarBucket at 9:10 AM on December 30, 2006


hmm, actually it looks like my Texas execution stats are a bit wrong historically. Texas has executed 376 people, while the rest of the country has killed about 700. (Since the reintroduction of the death penalty, I guess). This is what the first source I googled said.
posted by delmoi at 9:10 AM on December 30, 2006


federal judge in Washington DC denied [PDF] Saddam's request for a stay. (And here I thought Iraq had "real and full sovereignty.")

actually, if you read the court's ruling, the reason for the court's denial is that it didn't have jurisdiction over iraq's sovereign court system or the international force holding saddam prisoner ... so there's no contradiction at all

(it's beyond me how the court would enforce a decision in iraq, anyway)
posted by pyramid termite at 9:15 AM on December 30, 2006


I heard NPR's biography/history of Saddam this morning. It was pretty stunning in what was left out. Mainly the roll the US had in propping him up as dictator and supporting his war against Iran. They made a great deal of listing his many military campaigns against neighboring countries and his own people, including the use of biological agents, yet they failed to mention US backing and supplying of his military, including the biological agents.

Both Gulf wars were characterized as Saddam "entering into war against the US". One could possibly make this claim for GW1 (an attack against Kuwait's oil is an attack against the US, etc.) but GW2? I do believe we fired the first shots there. NPR even had the gall to play audio of Bush and Cheney repeating the "wmd" claim.

I swear sometimes I think FOX news is running parts of the NPR news desk these days.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:20 AM on December 30, 2006


But it wasn't ever an Int'l force holding Saddam--it was US custody all along--even all during the Iraqi show trial. We only handed him over to Iraqi custody right before they hung him.

remember this picture from Thurs in Crawford? Those were the people in the masks, with Rummy added for kicks.
posted by amberglow at 9:25 AM on December 30, 2006


it gets worse ... according to sunnis, the holiday begins saturday, but according to shi'ites, it begins sunday

a possible interpretation is that of the shi'ites saying "screw you" to the sunnis ... nice, eh?
posted by pyramid termite


Actually, there is a dispute most every year about the date of Eid ul Adha, with some groups obediently following the decisions of the scholars in Saudia Arabia as if it were the Vatican, and others following the lunar calendar to mark the beginning of the festival. The difference is not shia or sunni, as there are various sunni organizations in the USA who have made contrary statements about the beginning of Eid. So I don't think this point can be pinned on sectarianism.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:25 AM on December 30, 2006


...This rush to execute him had the feel of a gangster silencing the key witness to a crime. ...
posted by amberglow at 9:41 AM on December 30, 2006


... It is truly vile to listen to George Bush anoint himself the Arbiter of Due Process and Human Rights by praising the Iraqis for giving a "fair trial" to Saddam when we are currently holding 13,000 individuals (at least) around the world in our custody -- many of whom we have been holding for years and in the most inhumane conditions imaginable -- who have been desperately, and unsuccessfully, seeking some forum, any forum, in which to prove their innocence. ...
posted by amberglow at 9:45 AM on December 30, 2006


Well he certainly deserved it, but so do some other people I can think of (you know like the people actually responsible for 9/11 and the bastards who let them get away). Surprised Saddam didn't get to pull a Goering. Anyhow the whole episode is sickening. The rush to execution, the guys in the masks. It just makes the Iraq government look like a sham and really not much different than the Al Queda gangs performing beheadings or the militia groups carrying out genocide. A legitimate government "of the people" shouldn't have to hide behind masks, especially when it is dealing out justice (in any form). Also what is up with that guy talking animatedly to Saddam just before they slip the noose around his head, he looks like he's trying to sell Saddam insurance, but perhaps he's reminding him of his crimes and why he's being put to death. I guess we'll find out in the coming days. Or not.
posted by Skygazer at 9:55 AM on December 30, 2006


So, will we bomb Iran before or after the State of the Union? (i'm sure Georgie is over Iraq now that Saddam's gone--it's Dick's baby now, for oil)
posted by amberglow at 10:10 AM on December 30, 2006


I'm so very glad that the perpetrator of September 11 has finally been hanged for his crime. Finally, our long national nightmare is over.

What? We've always been at war with Eurasia.
posted by WCityMike at 10:11 AM on December 30, 2006


Maybe he had it coming, but I wince at hearing some of the exclamations of exultation I heard yesterday. Kind of an echo of...somebody...Bertolt Brecht, maybe...saying, "Don't rejoice, you men. For though the world stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again."
posted by pax digita at 10:12 AM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]


Saddam's Execution and the Campaign Against Iran
posted by homunculus at 10:17 AM on December 30, 2006


Kimochi warui...
posted by Drexen at 10:20 AM on December 30, 2006


so much for indefatigablity
posted by bonaldi at 11:00 AM on December 30, 2006


Lynched by the mob --... Saddam's lynching might send a shiver through the collective, if artificial, spine of the Arab ruling elites. If Saddam can be hanged, so can Mubarak, the Hashemite joker in Amman and the Saudi royals - as long as those who topple them are happy to play ball with Washington.
posted by amberglow at 11:26 AM on December 30, 2006


Juan Cole: Top Ten Ways the US Enabled Saddam Hussein
posted by amberglow at 11:40 AM on December 30, 2006


Arab pilgrims in Mecca expressed outrage on Saturday that Iraqi authorities had chosen to execute former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein on a major religious holiday, saying it was an insult to Muslims.
posted by pyramid termite at 11:43 AM on December 30, 2006


thank you amberglow, i knew there was a word the better described what just happend. lynched. yeah, that has the right ring to it.
posted by nola at 12:08 PM on December 30, 2006


A dictator created then destroyed by America:
Who encouraged Saddam to invade Iran in 1980, which was the greatest war crime he has committed for it led to the deaths of a million and a half souls? And who sold him the components for the chemical weapons with which he drenched Iran and the Kurds? We did. No wonder the Americans, who controlled Saddam's weird trial, forbad any mention of this, his most obscene atrocity, in the charges against him. Could he not have been handed over to the Iranians for sentencing for this massive war crime? Of course not. Because that would also expose our culpability.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:31 PM on December 30, 2006 [2 favorites]


The LA Times asked four historians how Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln would have handled Iraq.
Like the British decision to subjugate the American colonies, the Bush decision to democratize Iraq has been misguided from the start. The administration never appreciated the odds against its success, and it disastrously confused conventional military superiority with the demands imposed on an army of occupation.

No man in American history understood those lessons better than Washington, who viewed them as manifestations of British imperial arrogance, which he described as "founded equally in Malice, absurdity, and error." If dropped into Baghdad, he would weep at our replication of the same imperial scenario.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:41 PM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


The ONLY thing which can get the Bush administration off life support and out of the ICU is another terrorist attack in the US.

After an extreme rush to judgement and execution, Saddam is hanged a couple of days before gigantic night-time, open air celebrations in almost all American cities.

Two days-- time enough for shock to subside and some quick and dirty plans to be made, but not so long that there can be any blame for intelligence failures after the fact.
posted by jamjam at 1:15 PM on December 30, 2006


kirkaracha: im torn on the issue you bright up regarding 'american culpability'. however, i do want to point out that saddam was in fact scheduled to face charges for the anfal massacre.
posted by phaedon at 1:20 PM on December 30, 2006


bright = brought
posted by phaedon at 1:20 PM on December 30, 2006


Holgate -- Three points: First, he was convicted of murdering 148 people, right? I understand that reasonable person can differ on this point, but I would support the death penalty for anybody who was convicted of murdering on that scale.

Second, he was captured, tried, represented by a defense (and assisted in that defense by a few notable American lawyers), and convicted according to the law of Iraq. Do you really consider that to have been "summary justice?" Again, reasonable minds may differ, but I have always thought that summary justice in these circumstances would have been shooting him in the head without process or the ability to present a defense. Maybe we are just talking past each other, but if Saddam's trial was summary justice in your view, then what sort of process was necessary for his trial to have been at least minimally fair?

Third, do you think that Saddam was not responsible for using chemical weapons against civilians, or torturing and murdering Iraqis, or plotting the assassination of an American President? I am not saying that he should have been executed for those acts if he was not convicted of them, but as a bystander who is commenting on whether Saddam's execution was a good thing, I don't think it is completely wrong to take them into account even in the absence of a trial and conviction.
posted by Slap Factory at 1:21 PM on December 30, 2006


Cilit Bang -- I am not using talking points; YOU are using talking points. (Now you are supposed to say that I am using talking points again, and then I will respond. Thanks.) No need for ad hominem. We might have different ideas about what talking points are, but I was merely posting my comments here. Sorry if it disagreed with your point re hypocritical, barbaric, etc.
posted by Slap Factory at 1:23 PM on December 30, 2006


Dirtynumb -- My point was that it is unfair to claim that shaking hands with a United States official (I think the earlier poster was referring to the Rumsfeld picture) was a harbinger of death or assassination at the behest of or with the acquiesence of the United States. You probably understood that to be my point if you read the comment to which I was responding, but you were being snarky because you disagree with me.

Also, I was commenting on whether I thought Saddam's execution was justified based on what I know about what he has done, not sentencing him to death. Those sorts of opinions are not limited to conviction beyond reasonable doubt, etc., so I feel comfortable sharing them with you even in the absence of a formal indictment and verdict.
posted by Slap Factory at 1:30 PM on December 30, 2006


Who did encourage Saddam to attack Iran? I understand the assertions in the Fisk article about American culpability. My question is, do we know what individual or individuals passed along the message? I've heard the allegations enough to understand them, and I do not think that America is beyond realpolitik (even clumsy, Ngo Dihn Diem realpolitik), but who in the Carter Administration was whispering in Saddam's ear at the time? Anyone have any hard facts on that?
posted by Slap Factory at 1:33 PM on December 30, 2006


I would support the death penalty for anybody who was convicted of murdering on that scale.

I would support the death penaliy for anybody that disagrees with me, but have you read today paper , they call me insane !
I'd hang these fuckers .....but all I can do is cutting the advertisement, or call their crony director !

What do you think, that killing Saddam will resurrect any of the people that were killed by him , or somehow killed because of him ? Does it make it EVEN ?

Somehow many people believe that killing him was a fair punishment for his crimes , but they seem to be so distracted by this kind of Far West cheap spectacle they believe it is over, justice was served, it's done Mission Accomplished ! We now resume our usual programming...

And if the Iraquis dare complain about anything..SHUT up sandniggers, you were the ones that should have rebelled against Saddam, we were so gracious to save you after putting you in trouble, get to work you lazy eastern mexicans ! It's EVEN, don't owe you anything.
posted by elpapacito at 1:42 PM on December 30, 2006


Second, he was captured, tried, represented by a defense (and assisted in that defense by a few notable American lawyers), and convicted according to the law of Iraq.

And when he committed those acts, he was not in contravention of Iraqi law at the time. I invite anyone to provide the first cogent refutation of that fact that does not also indict GWB. Both of them killed thousands of Kurds using executive authority in the interests of national security, after all.

And God help us when the next regime down the pike hangs us for breaking their laws as opposed to ours.

Even worse was the conviction and execution of his former chief judge. That kind of shit is, to me, indefensible.

then what sort of process was necessary for his trial to have been at least minimally fair?

To be fair, he can't be tried under the laws of the new regime; he can only be tried under international law, which I agree he broke many times.

But then he wouldn't have been executed.
posted by solid-one-love at 1:43 PM on December 30, 2006


Car bombs target Shiites in Iraq
posted by homunculus at 1:46 PM on December 30, 2006


Belgium , Utu, Tutzi ..trying to repeat history I guess.
posted by elpapacito at 1:48 PM on December 30, 2006


Elpapcito -- I guess to answer your specific question, no I don't think that killing Saddam will resurrect his victims. By way of more general response to your post, wanting to kill people for disagreeing with you is not healthy, and it is not nice to use the n-word in reference to people of different races. Also, as a substantive matter, I do not think that executing Saddam is an all-sufficient answer to the problems in Iraq, or that the world's and the United States' responsibility to Iraq is now complete; only that Saddam's execution seems like a fair and just result given all the evil things that he has done.
posted by Slap Factory at 1:53 PM on December 30, 2006


Solidonelove -- Are you arguing about law or fairness? If you think that only international tribunals applying international laws could provide a fair trial, I'm not sure I would even begin to go about trying to disabuse you of that idea, but reading your comment, it seems like you are making a legal "act of state" doctrine or "ex post facto" defense. I am not sure what the legal basis for that argument would be. I have not researched Iraqi law, but I would imagine that it prohibited unlawful killing, and I would be surprised if there were an exception for Saddam's whims or that Saddam took care to justify all of the murders he committed with technical justifications. Also, I do not think there is any legal basis for saying that international law is the only -- or even one of the -- proper forums for trying Saddam. Am I wrong about that?

Also, when did George W. Bush kill thousands of Kurds? Are you referring to the Iraq War? Saddam Hussein was trying to exterminate Kurds, and we were trying to topple Saddam and install a new regime in Iraq. Do you not think there is any distinction there?
posted by Slap Factory at 2:00 PM on December 30, 2006


Solidonelove -- Are you arguing about law or fairness? If you think that only international tribunals applying international laws could provide a fair trial,

There is a huge difference between a fair trial and a fair outcome. If you're not going to have a fair trial, with bother with this bullshit? Just Hang him from a chopper on Fox News.

I am not sure what the legal basis for that argument would be. I have not researched Iraqi law, but I would imagine that it prohibited unlawful killing, and I would be surprised if there were an exception for Saddam's whims or that Saddam took care to justify all of the murders he committed with technical justifications.

If you don't know much about Iraqi law, then why are you talking about it?
posted by delmoi at 2:23 PM on December 30, 2006


Solidonelove -- Are you arguing about law or fairness?

Both.

If you think that only international tribunals applying international laws could provide a fair trial

Not speaking to generalities. Speaking to this specific case, and yes, only an international court could have fairly tried Saddam. And, yes, you couldn't even begin to disabuse me of that idea because you'd be wrong.

I am not sure what the legal basis for that argument would be.

Well then get back to us when you are sure, rather than parroting talking points.
posted by solid-one-love at 2:25 PM on December 30, 2006


By way of more general response to your post, wanting to kill people for disagreeing with you is not healthy

True, for them !

it is not nice to use the n-word in reference to people of different races.

Apologies accepted. Just don't do it again, ok ? Repeat with me : there is no such thing as "races" or "subraces" in the human -species- ok ?

Saddam's execution seems like a fair and just result given all the evil things that he has done.

And as empty as a vacuum in space, as the results are : he's dead. So what ?

He already was taken out of command, he was completely harmless, except for what he knew and may have told about his past that probably frightened many self righetous people trying hard to appear holier then him.

For all I know many iraquis and iranians would have liked to see him in rot in jail for the rest of his life, but behold that wouldn't have been humane ! Let's hang him instead, that's humane !

On a tangent: that so so reminds me timeless Blazing Saddles movie by Mel Brooks , in which the well-to-do, lovely little elder lady who certainly prayed in church daily meets the up and coming Bart, the new sheriff of the town !
Bart: Mornin', ma'am. And isn't it a lovely mornin'?
Elderly woman: Up yours nigger.
posted by elpapacito at 2:51 PM on December 30, 2006


I'm not sure if anyone posted this; I just saw it put up on Digg.

The Execution, full video. Graphic.
I haven't watched it myself, but I'm sure it's the real thing.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 2:57 PM on December 30, 2006


yep it is
posted by elpapacito at 3:04 PM on December 30, 2006


what a sad little world we live in.
posted by phaedon at 3:05 PM on December 30, 2006


Anybody with a strong stomach and understanding the language tell us what is being said ?
posted by elpapacito at 3:06 PM on December 30, 2006


I agree, phaedon. I just scroll-wheeled through all this nonsense for a straight minute, thinking that this can't possibly be what life is supposed to be about. It snowed a little bit today, which it hasn't done very much this year. I think I'm going for a walk.
posted by sleevener at 3:09 PM on December 30, 2006


(hasn't snowed very much where I live, I should've said)
posted by sleevener at 3:10 PM on December 30, 2006


Saddam was executed for ordering the killings or executions of approximately 150 men as reprisal for an assassination attempt in Dujail in July 1982, during the Iran-Iraq War.

Then what happened?
By mid-1982, Iraq was on the defensive against Iranian human-wave attacks. The U.S., having decided that an Iranian victory would not serve its interests, began supporting Iraq: measures already underway to upgrade U.S.-Iraq relations were accelerated, high-level officials exchanged visits, and in February 1982 the State Department removed Iraq from its list of states supporting international terrorism.
...
The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country's official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan.
...
By the summer of 1983 Iran had been reporting Iraqi use of using chemical weapons for some time. The Geneva protocol requires that the international community respond to chemical warfare, but a diplomatically isolated Iran received only a muted response to its complaints...

The U.S., which followed developments in the Iran-Iraq war with extraordinary intensity, had intelligence confirming Iran's accusations, and describing Iraq's "almost daily" use of chemical weapons, concurrent with its policy review and decision to support Iraq in the war [Document 24]. The intelligence indicated that Iraq used chemical weapons against Iranian forces, and, according to a November 1983 memo, against "Kurdish insurgents" as well [Document 25]
...
Soon thereafter, Donald Rumsfeld (who had served in various positions in the Nixon and Ford administrations, including as President Ford's defense secretary, and at this time headed the multinational pharmaceutical company G.D. Searle & Co.) was dispatched to the Middle East as a presidential envoy.
After the US knew that Iraq was using chemical weapons that were "developed in part through 'the unwitting and, in some cases, we believe witting assistance' of numerous Western firms," it recognized Saddam's government as the "legitimate government" and restored diplomatic relations with Iraq.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:11 PM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


The Execution, full video. Graphic.

A trillion dollars spent in Iraq and they can't afford a tripod?
posted by mazola at 3:13 PM on December 30, 2006


elpapacito: he died reciting the Muslim testament of faith. The group chanting was a form of veneration of Prophet Mohammed.
posted by Burhanistan at 3:21 PM on December 30, 2006


Was it a fair trial, flawed process or plain revenge?
posted by amberglow at 3:27 PM on December 30, 2006


thanks for the translation
posted by elpapacito at 3:28 PM on December 30, 2006


Here's what I said about it a few days ago, which seems appropriate given all the talk about videos and the like being leaked to the net:

I hope when they hang him they're playing The Rapture's "Pieces of the People we Love"; and I hope they have disco lights, a big replay screen, and the biggest wall of fucking cheapseats this world has ever seen.

And maybe, right before they marionette the fucker, when the air is ripe with electricity (galvanic energy?!), that big replay screen lights up and the people in the cheapseats are treated to a montage of what a good little boy Saddam was for all those years: gas attacks and mass graves and handshakes from Donny.

And maybe while everyone is busy trying to ignore the 1080p elephant in the room the door will swing open and Saddam will hang in the near-death light of a thousand television cameras. But everyone will be too busy Lady Macbething their raw hands to notice, and he'll just hang there, quietly, so quietly you might, if you really listen, hear the sharp intake of breath as a new generation of "terrorists" are born in the fucked-out craters of ruined buildings all over the world.


Essentially every reputable court in the western world has said the trial was a sham at best and an illegal operation at worst, but, as usual, this means little or nothing to the American government.

posted by The God Complex at 3:32 PM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


I don't mourn the bastard, but the utter tawdriness of this is like lipstick on a stuck pig. But George Bush tells us that it's a milestone for this burgeoning democracy that they dangled Saddam from a rope, as he slept through it all, just as he slept through the deaths of those Texas inmates he signed off on like they were Visa stubs at a restaurant.

Yes, exactly. And, more than the sheer tawdriness of the affair, there is also this, from the article I linked earlier:
Who encouraged Saddam to invade Iran in 1980, which was the greatest war crime he has committed for it led to the deaths of a million and a half souls? And who sold him the components for the chemical weapons with which he drenched Iran and the Kurds? We did. No wonder the Americans, who controlled Saddam's weird trial, forbad any mention of this, his most obscene atrocity, in the charges against him. Could he not have been handed over to the Iranians for sentencing for this massive war crime? Of course not. Because that would also expose our culpability.
posted by The God Complex at 3:36 PM on December 30, 2006


sic semper tyrannis.
posted by smoothvirus at 4:55 PM on December 30, 2006


Meanwhile, at the Pentagon, business as usual
posted by amberglow at 5:19 PM on December 30, 2006


sic semper tyrannis.

You know, I've been seeing this popping up around the blogosphere, and I have to wonder if the people using it understand the context. Comparing Saddam to Julius Caesar and/or Abraham Lincoln? Please.
posted by EarBucket at 5:20 PM on December 30, 2006


we did it on an American Base!!! wtf is wrong with them?

... His execution at 6:10 a.m. was announced on state-run Iraqiya television. Witnesses said 14 Iraqi officials had attended the hanging, at the former military intelligence building in northern Baghdad, now part of an American base. ...
posted by amberglow at 5:34 PM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


I was kind of hoping he'd escape and be some sort of lex luthor type of supervillain - i guess my foreign office ambitions end right here : )
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:43 PM on December 30, 2006


This wasn't justice, though I won't presume to say what would have constituted justice. Perhaps it isn't even possible. What reparation can anyone really make for mass murder, or even one murder? Definitely, though, there will be no justice so long as so many of those involved are not forced to answer for what they have done.
posted by orange swan at 6:21 PM on December 30, 2006


I can't believe nobody said it.

NooseFilter.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 6:59 PM on December 30, 2006


Another witness, national security adviser Mowaffak al-Rubaie, told The New York Times that one of the guards shouted at Saddam: "You have destroyed us. You have killed us. You have made us live in destitution."

"I have saved you from destitution and misery and destroyed your enemies, the Persian and Americans," Saddam responded, al-Rubaie told the Times.

"God damn you," the guard said.

"God damn you," responded Saddam.

posted by Skygazer at 7:28 PM on December 30, 2006


In cowboy and other movies the hangman's noose always went to the back of the neck of the person being hanged. I couldn't understand why the executioner at Saddam's hanging put the knot to Saddam's left side and wondered if this were done on purpose and more, or less, humane. So I looked it up and it turns out there is, of course, a history and science of hanging.

The, er, bottom line is that: The long drop method was designed to break the prisoners' neck by allowing them to fall a pre-determined distance and then be brought up with a sharp jerk by the rope.

At the end of the drop the body is still accelerating under the force of gravity but the head is constrained by the noose which delivers a massive blow to the back and one side of the neck which - combined with the downward momentum of the body - breaks the neck and ruptures the spinal cord. This is thought to cause instant unconsciousness and rapid death. The drop given was usually between 4 and 10 feet depending on the weight and strength of the prisoner. The actual amount being calculated to provide a final "striking" force of approximately 2200 lbs force (one ton) which - combined with the positioning of the eyelet of the noose normally under the left angle of the jaw (the submental position) - causes fracture and dislocation of the neck usually at the second and third or fourth and fifth cervical vertebrae.

posted by nickyskye at 7:39 PM on December 30, 2006


Fark won't be linking to the Saddam execution video, so feel free to stop submitting it now
posted by R. Mutt at 7:52 PM on December 30, 2006


So I looked it up and it turns out there is, of course, a history and science of hanging.

See also: Duff's Handbook on Hanging
Don't let the Hitchens introduction put you off.
posted by Chrischris at 8:04 PM on December 30, 2006


I can't get enough of that wonderful Duff Handbook on Hanging.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:33 PM on December 30, 2006 [1 favorite]


I don't know what to make of all this. I don't know what to think and I care even less. The image from Edvard Munch's Scream keeps haunting me, but I can no longer see fear in that face as I once did. I see shame. Screaming because he's experiencing a horrendous blood-curdling emotion of shame that can't be put into words, so he screams. And it's a primal scream, cuz he doesn't have anything else he can do.

I'm ashamed of all of humanity regardless of theology or ideology or otherology, and am ashamed that I am a member of this elitist club of hatemongers and violent offenders. Millenia of brutality and bloodlust, and we still have learned nothing.

Whether you pierce your tongue or bomb a nation, it's still self-mutilation. When one part of humanity bombs or hangs another part of humanity, it is the same as if your hand pierced your own tongue. If given a choice, I'd pierce my tongue. Those we elected into office made the other choice on our behalf. Wasn't that kind of them?
posted by ZachsMind at 8:44 PM on December 30, 2006 [3 favorites]


CNN is being fed false information about what Saddam said in his final moments. Anyone who knows a lick of Arabic can clearly hear him saying the Shahadat, or Muslim testimony of faith. He says it once, then gets halfway through "Mohammed rasulullah" as he drops. CNN reports it as if he is saying "Muqtada al-Sadr" in a mocking tone. Stupid.
posted by Burhanistan at 8:55 PM on December 30, 2006 [4 favorites]


Brothers! We are foregathered here to preserve our hallowed culture'n heritage! From intrusions, inclusions and dilutions! Of culluh! Of creed! Of our ol'-time religion! We aim to pull evil up by the root! Before it chokes out the flower of our culture'n heritage! And our women! Let's not forget those ladies, y'all,lookin' to us for p'tection! From darkies! From Jews! From Papists! And from all those smart-ass folk say we come descended from the monkeys! That's not my culture'n heritage! Izzat your culture'n heritage? And so... we gonna hang us a neegra!

"but who in the Carter Administration was whispering in Saddam's ear at the time?"

Hmmm...what happened at the time that might interest the U.S. in taking Iran down a peg but not using official channels to do it. Hmmm...hmmm...nope, nothing comes to mind. Hmmm. Who told the Shah the U.S. would back him up? Who planned Operation Rice Bowl? Pushed training the mujaheddin? Was very anti-soviet 'cause of his polish background? Hmmm...
After that Reagan made it policy. Everyone was more afeared of the Rooskis than anyone else. Didn't help that both sides were punching holes in our oil tankers. But we seemed to have forgiven Iraq a whole lot at that time.
And that's been the hallmark of many extremely dominant societies and the further iteration of that pattern in smaller powerful societies within them - you do whatever is expediant for the now.

Which explains this.
It saddens me slightly that many people haven't learned that executing individuals doesn't remedy anything, any more than eating one fish solves your hunger problems.
But there are always little men with short lives to be hanged or do the hanging. Someday we'll grow up. We've come this far, and that was a massive amount of work and sacrifice. Kinda nice remembering that in any time of adverse zeitgeist.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:11 PM on December 30, 2006


From the National Security Archive: Saddam Hussein: More Secret History. This telegram from the British Embassy, Baghdad, to The Foreign and Commonwealth Office, December 20, 1969 is fascinating reading.
posted by nickyskye at 10:27 PM on December 30, 2006


The President's praise of fair trials and the rule of law
posted by homunculus at 10:48 PM on December 30, 2006


"I have no race prejudices nor caste prejudices nor creed prejudices. All I care to know is that a man is a human being, and that is enough for me; he can't be any worse."

-Mark Twain, Concerning the Jews (hilariously enough, given the circumstances ,but no less telling given the circumstances) (Harper's Magazine, Sept. 1899).
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:32 AM on December 31, 2006


Gotta throw in my two cents:

I just can't get into it, nor can I see the glee in his hanging.

We've effectively made the man a martyr.

Bush fucks up everything he touches.
posted by rougy at 9:00 AM on December 31, 2006


I'm curious to see who will try to spin Saddam into a martyr first. My money's on the Libertarians. ooo no wait, Green Party.

Uh - yeah.

If you think it matters what Americans say about Saddam, you're probably one of the "best and brightest" who think that a troop surge is a good idea.
posted by rougy at 9:06 AM on December 31, 2006


...Here we are seeing 21st century psychological operations. It's hard to know who is directing this internet traffic, but it can be concluded there were elements within America's government and/or military, working in concert with Iraq's current scarecrow power-holders, who wanted as many people as possible in the world to see Saddam hang. And from that rope hanged not just that bearded old man, but whatever was left of our culture that hasn't been degraded by the 7 years of 'leadership" we've been dragging around with us.
posted by amberglow at 1:46 PM on December 31, 2006


“When you get to Paradise, Saddam, be sure to send me a postcard." ...
posted by amberglow at 1:49 PM on December 31, 2006 [1 favorite]


Saddam has risen from the dead, he is seen around Baghdad.

First Bush tries to redo WWII, now he tries to redo the crucifixion of Jesus in his continuing megalomaniacal fit of historical reenactment.
posted by Buck Eschaton at 2:09 PM on December 31, 2006


Aberglow: that's awesome (the postcard thing).
posted by delmoi at 1:07 AM on January 1, 2007


something about this war too easy to screw up

I take it back. They screwed this up too.
posted by fourcheesemac at 2:28 PM on January 1, 2007


isn't it tho, delmoi? : >

Bush's Foreign Policy In One Sentence:
"Hey Iraqis, I made you a delicious pigshit & bacon sandwich, why won't you eat it?"

posted by amberglow at 2:36 PM on January 1, 2007


About 90 percent of Iraqis feel the situation in the country was better before the U.S.-led invasion than it is today, according to a new ICRSS poll.
posted by amberglow at 2:42 PM on January 1, 2007


Frontline: The Darkside
posted by homunculus at 10:26 PM on January 2, 2007


Well, turns out some of those ski-masked hangmen had a few words for Saddam on the gallows. Read about it here (a transcript/translation is under 'The man is being executed' headline), and, if you're so inclined, see it here.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:16 AM on January 3, 2007


and what's this about 3 videos, one from a minister in the govt?
posted by amberglow at 1:14 PM on January 3, 2007


Afghan warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar says his fighters helped al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden escape a US offensive five years ago.
posted by homunculus at 9:46 PM on January 11, 2007


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