Web 2.0

March 8, 2007 9:44 AM

What is Web 2.0? [PDF]The best description of Web 2.0 that I have read. The six big ideas... 1 Individual production and User Generated Content 2 Harness the power of the crowd 3 Data on an epic scale 4 Architecture of Participation 5 Network Effects 6 Openness
posted by bobbyelliott (78 comments total)

I thought it was just about pastel colors and bubbly logos?
posted by matty at 9:48 AM on March 8, 2007

damn matty, beat me to it.

i'd also say that it's about chunky colorful logos on wet floors. can't forget that reflective surface.

heck, now you can do that in powerpoint 2007, so that design has officially jumped the shark. not that it didn't 2 years ago, but...
posted by mrballistic at 9:50 AM on March 8, 2007

...and pornier porn!
posted by Dizzy at 9:51 AM on March 8, 2007

it's big "top x percent" gifs and guys in pink shirts holding microphones!
posted by quonsar at 9:58 AM on March 8, 2007 [3 favorites]

web 2.0 is about getting rich off other people's work while hiding behind fancy-sounding-yet-poorly-thought-out concepts like "the wisdom of crowds."

also, it is about echo chambers and circlejerking with people who are just like you
posted by keswick at 9:59 AM on March 8, 2007 [7 favorites]

"Architecture of Participation?"
Wow, post-postmodern
posted by xjudson at 10:00 AM on March 8, 2007

Harness the power of the crowd...

Yeah, because me and everyone I know can't wait to all pull the chariot of the next big rich idiot.
posted by hermitosis at 10:00 AM on March 8, 2007

drop shadows baby!
posted by xjudson at 10:01 AM on March 8, 2007

DON WADERS NOW
posted by boo_radley at 10:05 AM on March 8, 2007

Ecstatic fucktarditude! That is the secret to web 2.0.

In web 2.0, anyone can post a dopey PDF on a blog! If anyone can do it, so can I!

Fish on.
posted by Mister_A at 10:09 AM on March 8, 2007

AskMetafiltr: getting rich off other people's work while hiding behind fancy-sounding-yet-poorly-thought-out concepts like "the wisdom of crowds."

I kid.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:12 AM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

also, it is about echo chambers and circlejerking with people who are just like you

In the echo chamber circle jerk, everyone can hear you moan.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 10:15 AM on March 8, 2007 [2 favorites]

w e b 2 . 1 i s p u t t i n g a s p a c e b e t w e e n e v e r y t h i n g
posted by xjudson at 10:17 AM on March 8, 2007

Yeah, because me and everyone I know can't wait to all pull the chariot of the next big rich idiot.

Yeah, because none of these websites provide useful services. Instead, sites like del.icio.us and flickr enslave you to do menial, joyless tasks that are exactly analogous to pulling a chariot. Saving a bookmark? Whip me, wealthy master, I don't think I can do this without proper motivation. Share my images with the world? Oh, mighty rich idiot, don't water me the next time we stop for a drink. I promise, I'll do better without.

Not defending the branding of these sites as Web 2.0, but it's not like these sites rely on their users to be horses or slaves to the aristocracy.
posted by sequential at 10:18 AM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

Well now that I've actually tried to read the piece, I agree even more with what I already said. Blech!

Sidebar: One of the reviewers is from Lowbrow University! I went there too!

PS: I love that movie where bobbyelliott wants to be a dancer but his hard-bitten Irish dad thinks he's a poofter.
posted by Mister_A at 10:19 AM on March 8, 2007

Web 2.0 is so 2006.
posted by thirteenkiller at 10:21 AM on March 8, 2007

Web 2.0: Choosing to revert to a PDF document to communicate something important.
posted by gum at 10:21 AM on March 8, 2007 [6 favorites]

That sounds a lot like Web 1.0.
posted by notyou at 10:22 AM on March 8, 2007

1 Individual production and User Generated Content 2 Harness the power of the crowd 3 Data on an epic scale 4 Architecture of Participation 5 Network Effects 6 Openness

What does all this shit mean?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:23 AM on March 8, 2007

sequential, I'm mainly griping about the brainless doublespeak of a philosophy that pretends to celebrate the "individual" but really depends on the predictibility of its needs just as much as ever.

Congratulating us on being special and for doing whatever we want on the internets, while straining to funnel those deeds and wants into certain areas so that every action becomes a transaction. Even the concept of Web 2.0 is a way to create subtle limitations on what is considered "new" and modern and marketable.
posted by hermitosis at 10:27 AM on March 8, 2007

Waht, no RSS feeds and mash-ups?
posted by Artw at 10:29 AM on March 8, 2007

Web 2.0: Choosing to revert to a PDF document to communicate something important.

That wins the thread.
posted by tittergrrl at 10:29 AM on March 8, 2007

From the delicious and meaty 64 page PDF:

'I have always imagined the information space as something to which everyone has immediate and intuitive access, and not just to browse, but to create.'
Tim Berners-Lee, 1999

I know a IT professional or two that would just laugh at that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:36 AM on March 8, 2007

The term "Web 2.0": Dumb
The hype over "Web 2.0": Dumber
The agonizing over the hype over "Web 2.0": Funny, for a while
Actual features of "Web 2.0": Pretty cool
posted by DU at 10:37 AM on March 8, 2007 [4 favorites]

Seriously?

Web 2.0 is rooted in AJAX. The idea of using embedded tech (of a web browser, usually JavaScript but possibly Flash as well) to talk to servers without you having to "load" another web page.

Basically, it was just a cheap trick to remove the perception of page loads and maybe reduce the need to manage multiple web pages by keeping it all within a single page.

It started with simple stuff like news tickers and didn't have any real name associated with it. Now it's getting some media buzz and someone slapped what was suppose to be a fancy sounding name to it. Now anytime I hear someone say "Web 2.0" I just groan internally because it's a term used by people who don't understand what they're really talking about. I'm sure there are a million parallels that others could provide to other industries. Like people who pull phrases out of there ass when talking about their car.

Now, as the term continues to proliferate, people are making up their own definition, as seen in the linked PDF. Most (actually all) of the concepts discussed in the PDF are not new at all. They're quite old; in use in the mid 90s and some in use since the web's creation.

In actuality, the "2.0" thing is just a pile of bullshit. It's a term marketing execs latched onto for promotional purposes. It's unfortunate that the term has reached mainstream. It just confuses everyone.
posted by ruthsarian at 10:39 AM on March 8, 2007

Web 3.1
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:39 AM on March 8, 2007

In before LOLOLWEB2.0. crap.

Web 2.0 is a handy marker for those services which accommodate a liberalization of information usage without assuming this surrenders their information ownership. As a label it's permanently tainted by all the misapplication and appropriation of the term driving it into meaninglessness. Which is kind of ironic, when you think about it.

If you're worried about buzzwords, beware the coming misappropriation of the phrase 'social software'. Currently it has specific meanings relevant to information sharing, but sometime soon a startup (or Microsoft) is going to use it as a marketing term to make their default installation of DotNetNuke sound special.

As for this paper? Well, it's got an Executive Summary in lieu of an abstract, so it's got my back up already -- it's a position paper, not academic research regardless of who reviewed it.
posted by ardgedee at 10:42 AM on March 8, 2007

More happy horseshit
posted by Mister_A at 10:42 AM on March 8, 2007

Web 2.0 is rooted in AJAX

And even the term "AJAX" tends to be mis/overused. The "X" is for XML, but people apply the term to anything that uses javascript to display something on a page, when all that is good old 1997-style DHTML. (and even DHTML was a somewhat pointless buzzword that pretended to be some kind of new language, when really it just meant using javascript with HTML)
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:47 AM on March 8, 2007

...and pornier porn!

Impossible! The "real-world" maximum on porniness was reached in 1998, and while the theoretical Maximal Pornic Quotient (MPQ) is some 30% higher than any laboratory MPQ achieved to date, significant increases in MPQ are quite impossible with the pornotech systems in place today. Nanopornotech may increase MPQ slightly, but come on, that's a pipe dream!

In the meantime we will have to be satisfied with mere transpornigration because the era of easy super-pornification has ended! That's right, we've reached peak porn!
posted by Mister_A at 10:57 AM on March 8, 2007

Mister_A : You're dismissing the giant untapped popper reserves up north, as well as the Microsoft/Vivid partnership which is researching promising leads into theoretical ultra-porn. We're nowhere near peak porn, and to raise an alarmist voice now does nobody any good.
posted by boo_radley at 11:01 AM on March 8, 2007 [3 favorites]

Wow.
I always wondered what an entire document written entirely by constantly pounding the button on the New Economy Bullshit generator would read like. I just never got around to it, myself.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:02 AM on March 8, 2007 [2 favorites]

sequential, I'm mainly griping about the brainless doublespeak of a philosophy that pretends to celebrate the "individual" but really depends on the predictibility of its needs just as much as ever.

Fair enough, hermitosis, point well made. Mea culpa.
posted by sequential at 11:03 AM on March 8, 2007

From what I can tell, Web 2.0 is sort of a catch-all for any significant innovation that has become popular in the past 5 years.
posted by Afroblanco at 11:10 AM on March 8, 2007

1 Individual production and User Generated Content 2 Harness the power of the crowd 3 Data on an epic scale 4 Architecture of Participation 5 Network Effects 6 Openness

What does all this shit mean?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:23 PM EST on March 8

It means no revenue other than adsense clickbots.
posted by Pastabagel at 11:10 AM on March 8, 2007

And cat macros.
posted by solistrato at 11:15 AM on March 8, 2007

Metafilter: dismissing the giant untapped popper reserves.
posted by treepour at 11:22 AM on March 8, 2007

I'm even cooler than the rest of you. I am jaded about yet to be invented technology.
posted by srboisvert at 11:22 AM on March 8, 2007 [2 favorites]

Here's web 2.0 in all it's finest: a Web 2.0 bullshit generator, Bullshitr!

Web 2.0 lets you:
-harness peer-to-peer folksonomies
-post viral ecologies
-disintermediate user-contributed ecologies
and
-engage citizen-media communities
posted by sephira at 11:23 AM on March 8, 2007 [2 favorites]

Punt peak-porn. Those promoting peak-porn points of view are pointless partners of the porn-profit complex. A-rabs are sitting their sheep pelicled poopers on plenty of prime porn. A plethora of porn. A virtual plentenseous profusion of priceless premium pornographic paraphenalia.
posted by sfts2 at 11:26 AM on March 8, 2007

Show me the spec. Then I'll believe "Web 2.0" is actually something.
posted by chairface at 11:27 AM on March 8, 2007

We did this before - within the past year, didn't we? IMHO, web-double-ought is important because it's now a cultural movement, albeit mostly vain, shallow, and superficial.

Instead of worrying about how you make money off of it, howsabout we look at the potential benefits to society?

1. UGC is a big deal to Old Media because it's free content. And just like Hollywood, the "best" content will rise to the top and translate to old media. But those millions of people who are "practicing" writing, or YouTubing, or photoshopping, or collaborating on things are cumulatively adding to society, and gaining skills that are transferable in the workplace, plus they most likely are learning something new that they are enjoying.
2. Wisdom of Crowds: Individuals are dumb, markets are efficient, and crowds can be smart (and dangerous). But democracy is a messy thing. We pay a lot of attention to stock markets, Vegas, futures markets, and prediction exchanges, don't we?
3. Examining big data can mean new discoveries. It can also mean false positives (ie. MySpace sex offenders).
4. The greater the level of engagement (or interaction, for people), the stronger their feelings, and the more likely they are to link it to positive emotions. Doing online research to pick the camera you want and reading the opinions of others may likely cause you to enjoy the purchase more afterwards.
5. Network effects: When you are composing a MeFi post, how useful is del.icio.us versus Google for finding those esoteric BOTW links?
6. Openness: More transparency = more trust. If you share everything, then you have nothing to hide (within reason). And allowing other people to "mashup" your data gives you new ways to look at things, new insights, and potentially new opprtunities for monetization.

Web 2.0 might be a pretentious buzzword, but it's a part of the culture now, which means it can become a real force for change.
posted by rzklkng at 11:30 AM on March 8, 2007 [2 favorites]

Jews did Web 2.0

Lol Jews. Lol Web 2.0.
posted by chlorus at 11:33 AM on March 8, 2007

1 Individual production and User Generated Content 2 Harness the power of the crowd 3 Data on an epic scale 4 Architecture of Participation 5 Network Effects 6 Openness

1, 2, 4, and 6 seem to just be "LOL PEOPLE"
3 and 5 seem to just be "LOL INTERNETZ"
posted by lostburner at 11:39 AM on March 8, 2007

Hey you guys want to go around with your heads in the sand about peak porn, that's fine with me. Just try and explain it to your kids, who will be stuck jerking off to the Sears catalog.
posted by Mister_A at 11:52 AM on March 8, 2007 [2 favorites]

Web 2.0 does not exist.
posted by caddis at 11:52 AM on March 8, 2007

Well here's the best description of Web 2.0 that I have read.
See also.
posted by Demogorgon at 12:07 PM on March 8, 2007

Web 2.0 is rooted in AJAX. The idea of using embedded tech (of a web browser, usually JavaScript but possibly Flash as well) to talk to servers without you having to "load" another web page.

I'm pretty sure "Web 2.0" as an umbrella term came out before "AJAX". Plus, Wikipedia is canonically web2.0, and doesn't use AJAX. try again.

What makes things confusing is that Web2.0 was actually defined by a number of sites: Flickr, Google, Wikipedia, etc. The "essence" of these sites define web2.0
posted by delmoi at 12:16 PM on March 8, 2007 [2 favorites]

Because the web now is *just* like it was in 1999. No really! Get off my lawn you kids!
posted by badstone at 12:17 PM on March 8, 2007

What does all this shit mean?

If you dumb it down much more, there's not a whole hell of a lot left to say: Web 2.0 does things! With data! And people!
posted by badstone at 12:19 PM on March 8, 2007

I think it's pretty telling that a parody of flash intros and Web-speak from seven years ago remains entirely relevant to this discussion.

And speaking of Flash intros, remember that within the last few years people have more or less got over the urge to MACROMEDIA EVERYTHING, and Flash is finding its due (and secondary) place in tasteful web design. The same will be true of many of the things that are being developed under (or in reaction to) the ridiculous "Web 2.0" hype; the good stuff will float, the bullshit will rot.

But there will be a period of great discomfort while all that bullshit is rotting.
posted by poweredbybeard at 12:21 PM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

delmoi: What makes things confusing is that Web2.0 was actually defined by a number of sites: Flickr, Google, Wikipedia, etc. The "essence" of these sites define web2.0

I thought that web2.0 was defined (vaguely) by Tim O'Reilly in an effort to sell conference seats and books?

Beyond that, there is nothing here that is new to people who have not been looking at CSCL/W and Online Communities since the mid-80s.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 12:36 PM on March 8, 2007

But, the basic problem with CSCL/W and Online Communities is that they are not things that can be simply built by just throwing computer system cookbooks at them.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 12:40 PM on March 8, 2007

I always thought web 2.0 meant the web went from read only perspective for users to a read-write-exectue deal.
posted by YoBananaBoy at 12:47 PM on March 8, 2007

I always thought web 2.0 meant the web went from read only perspective for users to a read-write-exectue deal.

And that happened, ohh, back in 1994?
posted by KirkJobSluder at 12:56 PM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

What is Web 2.0?

Based on presented evidence, 64 pages of self-referential wankitude, in handy PDF format.

I just want to know: will web 2.0 work on my current interweb tubes, or will I have to buy a new interweb, or is there some sort of an adaptor or something? I live in an apartment and don't want to have to tear out my walls to get this great new "web 2.0" thing I keep reading about.
posted by pdb at 1:05 PM on March 8, 2007

Ok, so I learned from you guys that

user generated content & folksonomies & ajax => web 2.0
&
web 2.0 => bad, evil overlords, corporate speak, old hat, etc.

But

mefi => user generated content & folksonomies & ajax

are we resonating so strongly in our groupthink way that discussing mefi itself is forbidden? Am I out of tune?
Or is mefi exempt from web 2.0 criticism because we only got ajax goodness recently and our look & feel is so clunky and Matt is the good shepherd? no offense intended to christians
Or am I breaking the rules for not posting this on metatalk?
Or am I asking to many questions?
posted by jouke at 1:05 PM on March 8, 2007

You are so fired from MetaFilter, jouke.
posted by Mister_A at 1:18 PM on March 8, 2007

jouke: Let me put it to you in simple words that can satisfy the infantile short attention span of Web 2.0 advocates.

THE FUCKING INTERNET HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT USER GENERATED CONTENT AND FOLKOSONOMIES!!!

Web 2.0 advocates need to be hit in the face with a good volume on the history of computer-mediated communication until they stop taking credit for things they didn't invent.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 1:21 PM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

But jouke, metafilter has been doing user generated content for seven years now, folksonomy for several years. Only the ajax is new, so calling it Web 2.0 now, would mean web 2.0 has either been around forever, is rather arbitrary, or is essentially meaningless.
posted by drezdn at 1:21 PM on March 8, 2007

or

Metafilter: Web 2.0 before it was cool
posted by drezdn at 1:24 PM on March 8, 2007

And that happened, ohh, back in 1994?
And that was Web 1.0.
Version 2.0 is not doing anything "new", it's trying to push doing the same things to another level. Adding "Bleach Borax and Brighteners" to detergent. Going from Windows 3.1 to 95 (but, hopefully not from 98 to Me or XP to Vista). Connecting the readers, the writers, the servers and the owners in a way that'll make most if not all of them happier. Until something blows itself up (real good) or collapses under its own weight, following which is a period of quieter progress until it's time to burst forth with 3.0!
posted by wendell at 1:26 PM on March 8, 2007

Every time a geek mentions "Web 2.0," a kitten dies.
posted by ed at 1:30 PM on March 8, 2007

I'm fired.
I knew that you guys in the US are allowed to do that on the spot....
I shouldn't have come here. I'll go back to the Dutch internet now. There I can stay after not being welcome for at least a few months to half a year according to labour law.

Kirkjob: I think that using all caps has been bad form since way back when. And using expletives doesn't make you more convincing either.

drezden: I like the conclusion that you inferred from my set of implications.
posted by jouke at 1:34 PM on March 8, 2007

Is the Dutch internet all porn and weed? If so, I'm buying a ticket to Dutchland so I can check it out ;)
posted by Mister_A at 1:38 PM on March 8, 2007

While I'm 'cleaning out my desk' in the famous cardboard box that you use according to movies; yes, weed and porn to your hearts content. And also abortion & euthanasia. We're famous for that too.
posted by jouke at 1:50 PM on March 8, 2007 [1 favorite]

"I think it's pretty telling that a parody of flash intros and Web-speak from seven years ago remains entirely relevant to this discussion. "

I entered in order:

Pizza
food
eat pizza, it's food

and I was treated to the funniest 30 seconds of my day, if not week. Thank you.

That all being said, the semantic web looks to be a bit more interesting. With OWL and Knowledge base reasoners like Pellet, attempts are being made to generate a framework where meta data allows automatic discovery of information and services. Of course ontology in the computer science field was around well before before the web, but this application of it could yield the ability for any user to bring online an application or dataset that would be incorperated into a large coherent navagatable Knowledge base.

Or that's the hope, there's some serious problems on the whole with domain merging.
posted by The Power Nap at 1:54 PM on March 8, 2007

Ok, so I learned from you guys that

user generated content & folksonomies & ajax => web 2.0
&
web 2.0 => bad, evil overlords, corporate speak, old hat, etc.

But

mefi => user generated content & folksonomies & ajax

Yes, I believe keswick already noted that Mefi is Web 2.0:

also, it is about echo chambers and circlejerking with people who are just like you

(zing!)
posted by chrominance at 2:16 PM on March 8, 2007

Of course ontology in the computer science field was around well before before the web,

Even longer in library science.
posted by stet at 2:18 PM on March 8, 2007

every generation thinks they invented sex
posted by infini at 3:04 PM on March 8, 2007

This is the worst thread I've ever scrolled to the bottom of. I guess that makes me an idiot. Let me check.

Yup, I'm an idiot.
posted by MarshallPoe at 3:41 PM on March 8, 2007

"Of course ontology in the computer science field was around well before before the web,

Even longer in library science."

Not arguing that. The CS version of ontology is actually a dumber subset of REAL ontology.
posted by The Power Nap at 3:57 PM on March 8, 2007

Here's web 2.0 in all it's finest: a Web 2.0 bullshit generator, Bullshitr!

I made that, by the way. It remains the single most popular page on my site, to my eternal chagrin.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:12 PM on March 8, 2007

Web 2.0: Geeks learn Marketing.
posted by solipse at 5:56 PM on March 8, 2007

So basically, anything other than static HTML is Web 2.0.
posted by scheptech at 6:41 PM on March 8, 2007

OMG I'm in the same blue room as the creator of the Bullshitr? *falls to the floor to kowtow in abject submission to his intellectual might and superiority*
posted by infini at 7:20 PM on March 8, 2007

s'only a bit of javascript (and some sarcasm)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:52 PM on March 8, 2007

I thought Web 2.0 was still in beta?
posted by algreer at 4:48 AM on March 9, 2007