Just good ol' boys never meanin' no harm...

March 19, 2007 2:12 PM

It's Hazzardgate! While Dukes Fest '07 is still set to go off without a hitch, John Schneider and Tom Wopat have apparently been blacklisted from their scheduled July 14th appearance at the Cincinatti Pops after the local NAACP branch complained about the original tv show's "racist overtones." But of course the big questions are... what does Cooter think about it all? How will the Hazzard fans cope? And what about the Ukes of Hazzard? Are they involved? Boss Hogg remains silent on the issue.
posted by miss lynnster (66 comments total)

What I find offensive is that a symphony would even consider a Dukes of Hazzard themed performance. I mean symphony and the Dukes of Hazzard should never appear in the same sentence together.
posted by birdherder at 2:35 PM on March 19, 2007

So, does anyone else remember the (let's face it, pretty crappy) Dukes special from like '96 or '97 where Roscoe got an on-screen handjob from an evil woman trying to replace Boss Hogg? That blew out several important circuits in my brain.
posted by COBRA! at 2:43 PM on March 19, 2007

I'm sorry, this is the twenty-first century.
posted by solistrato at 2:45 PM on March 19, 2007

birdherder writes "I mean symphony and the Dukes of Hazzard should never appear in the same sentence together."

The Dukes of Hazzard represents the nadir of American television, a veritable symphony of hackneyed plots, low-brow jokes, and broad stereotypical characters.
posted by mr_roboto at 2:46 PM on March 19, 2007

Jones said apparently the orchestra decided some people could be offended because the Confederate flag was on the "General Lee" car featured in the show.

I love this. Saying "some people could be offended" by the Confederate flag is like saying some people could be offended by being called nigger.
posted by three blind mice at 2:48 PM on March 19, 2007

Previous thread on the guy who inspired The Dukes of Hazzard.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:48 PM on March 19, 2007

360 degree stupidity. You forgot hundreds of bent car frames mr_roboto.
posted by srboisvert at 2:50 PM on March 19, 2007

Fine. No problem. Starsky and Hutch happen to be available. And David Soul - you read that correctly: "SOUL" - is just itching to sing his 70's hit "Don't Give Up On Us."

See what you've done?
posted by hal9k at 2:52 PM on March 19, 2007

The Dukes of Hazzard represents the nadir of American television.

At least it didn't take itself seriously. Look at the depressing, preachy, self-important crap that's on today- like "The Wire", "24", "Grey's Anatomy" or "Law & Order".

"Hackneyed plots, low-brow jokes, and broad stereotypical characters" are rife in today's drama and sitcom fare. It's just that today, they hire movie actors who can no longer get movie parts and call everything "critically-acclaimed".

TV is so not fun nowadays.
posted by Jay Reimenschneider at 2:59 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

jay reimenschnader: I agree (The Wire notwithstanding. that show rocks)
posted by jonmc at 3:02 PM on March 19, 2007

Saying "some people could be offended" by the Confederate flag is like saying some people could be offended by being called nigger.

Though its use is sometimes mired in racism, it's also a compelling symbol of independence and anti-Federalism to many in the south. I'm pretty sure this was its intended meaning on the show, and that someone would have to be deliberately obtuse to see it as a statement on race. After all, the swastika is still used (as it has been for centuries) in Asian and Hindu art, despite its more widespread connotation with Hitler.
posted by kid ichorous at 3:13 PM on March 19, 2007

Hot pursuit! Goo-goo-goo-goo! Hang on, flash!

Sorry, couldn't resist.
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:18 PM on March 19, 2007

Hey Smart Dalek, that link didn't work. Well, it didn't for me, anyhow.
posted by miss lynnster at 3:26 PM on March 19, 2007

yeah, a show that deliberately went out of its way never to be racist is racist.

And the Wire is an awful show.

This thread is just chock full of things that are accurate.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:36 PM on March 19, 2007

Though its use is sometimes mired in racism, it's also a compelling symbol of independence and anti-Federalism to many in the south.

Bullshit. It's the battle flag of a pack of traitors who codified slavery into their constitution, got their asses handed to them, and and taught their descendents to spend the next hundred and fifty years whining about their poor, trod-upon "honor" and "heritage."

Your favorite childhood tv show/breakaway national movement sucks.
posted by RakDaddy at 3:36 PM on March 19, 2007 [3 favorites has favorites]

the swastika is still used (as it has been for centuries) in Asian and Hindu art, despite its more widespread connotation with Hitler
Err, it's still used widely in art in those places precisely because it's widespread connotations have nothing to do with Hitler in those contexts.
posted by Abiezer at 3:39 PM on March 19, 2007

Hey RakDaddy, looks like you live in Santa Monica, which doesn't give you the right to call bullshit on what southerners believe or don't believe. Also, please educate yourself on the civil war before you make statements about "traitors". Pre-war America was a loose confederation of states, one that no one was prohibited from leaving by the constitution. Southerners don't have many symbols of pride, and yes, a lot are proud of the confederate flag because they have family who died for it to defend their homes.

Not necessarily to defend their right to have slaves, just their homes.
posted by Roman Graves at 3:45 PM on March 19, 2007

Though its use is sometimes mired in racism, it's also a compelling symbol of independence and anti-Federalism to many in the south.

That's what it has alway ment to me. I do not fly it because it could be taken as a symbol of hate by other people. But my first impressions of the rebel cross was that it ment more than anything , the south. Just that and only that a symbol of the south. But I do understand why most people don't see it that way. Part of the way people see that flag has to do with how it has been used historically , and part of the way people see it has to do with impressions they have been given of the south by outsiders, who don't understand , and or prefer to sensationalize the image only. Part of the reason it seems sensational, is because it is a warning. Not really to African Americans, although it often is, but to anyone who may be some place they don't belong. Why don't they belong ? Thats a long story , but part of it involves moonshine some of the time.
posted by nola at 3:48 PM on March 19, 2007

You are all arguing very passionately. about a small city's symphony tribute to a cheesy TV show that went off the air over 20 years ago. Your courage is truly inspirational. Fredom loving people everywhere will sleep soundly tonight.
posted by jonmc at 3:58 PM on March 19, 2007

Also in the south it is often a symbol of working class , or poor people who just don't give a fuck what you think of them. That means other southerners too, like the folks in town who have nice big hummers to drive around. Some country folk don't mind fucking with the button down city boys, this is one way to assert yourself as poor, but proud, and a form of empowerment for poor working class southerners.
posted by nola at 3:58 PM on March 19, 2007

Roman Graves, geography has nothing to do with pointing out that the Confederacy was evil, plain and simple.

No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

That's right there in the Confederate States Constitution, Article I, Section 9. Your ancestors may have fought for their homes, but their government made it legal to treat other human beings like cattle.

The American South has plenty to be proud of, but the Confederacy? Slavery? The Dukes of fucking Hazzard? Please.
posted by RakDaddy at 3:59 PM on March 19, 2007

Man, that "Cooter" guy will do anything to get some press.
posted by squidfartz at 3:59 PM on March 19, 2007

And obviously people are always aligned with their government.

Your geography doesn't have anything to do with the Confederacy being evil, no. We all know that's an obvious point. What it does have something to do with is whining about their poor, trod-upon "honor" and "heritage." I hate to say "It's a southern thing and you wouldn't understand", but it is.

And hey...I never said I was proud of The Dukes of Hazzard. Maybe Hee Haw.
posted by Roman Graves at 4:09 PM on March 19, 2007

RakDaddy , your point about geography is well taken, but understanding a culture by way of proximity to it, has it's merits also.

If you're going to judge the past by the morals of the the present, be aware that like today, there is more going on than can be easily summed up or explained here in just a very few words.

I don't want to get into it here, but if you know anything about life or history you know it's complicated and never black or white.
posted by nola at 4:10 PM on March 19, 2007

On Preview: Sorry about the derail here everyone. I'm not a fan of the dukes of hazard, I just don't like reading the same assumptions , and hateful statements about the south , without stating my point of view on it. sorry, carry on.
posted by nola at 4:12 PM on March 19, 2007

"Well, them Duke boys managed to escape from Roscoe, but know them damn webgeeks is jabberin' at em. Hope the General can take the rough road ahead"

*plunk plunk*
posted by jonmc at 4:14 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

Roman Graves-

On "Hee Haw," I'm with you. Buck Owens was a god.
posted by RakDaddy at 4:26 PM on March 19, 2007

the swastika is still used (as it has been for centuries) in Asian and Hindu art, despite its more widespread connotation with Hitler

I should also point out that that the German swastika is an inverse (right-facing vs left-facing) of the one used in most Tibetan and Hindu art. But it is a very very old symbol.

As for the post. I happened across an episode of TDoH awhile back (I loved the show when I was a kid) and was dumbfounded at just how inane it was. You can never go back. Why some folks want to have a festival over it just baffles me.
posted by elendil71 at 4:27 PM on March 19, 2007

nola: nice analogy.
posted by boo_radley at 4:29 PM on March 19, 2007

Should I take that as sarcasm?
posted by nola at 4:32 PM on March 19, 2007

No, not at all.
posted by boo_radley at 4:33 PM on March 19, 2007

Them dorks, them dorks!
posted by fandango_matt at 4:40 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

Oh, where oh where are you tonight?
Why did you leave me here all alone?
I searched the world over and I thought I'd found true love.
But you met another and PTHHP! you was gone.

Saaaaa-lute!
posted by miss lynnster at 5:07 PM on March 19, 2007

1) Pops != CSO (technically)

2) Cincinnati's Symphony Orchestra is the 5th oldest in the country and considered one of the best in the world.

3) The Pops is also considered one of the best in the country
posted by Mick at 5:24 PM on March 19, 2007

it's also a compelling symbol of independence and anti-Federalism to many in the south

I'd have more sympathy for that viewpoint if the Confederate battle flag¹ hadn't been explicitly adopted as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement. Georgia added the Confederate battle flag to its state flag in 1956, to protest Brown v. Board of Education². South Carolina started flying the flag over its state house in 1962. University of Mississippi students stood around a Confederate flag and protested James Merediths' attempt to register in September 1962. Alabama Governor George "Segregation Forever" Wallace started flying the Confederate battle flag over the state capitol in (something he April 1963 in response to US Attorney General Robert Kennedy visiting Montgomery to urge Alabama to integrate the University of Alabama. Montgomery, Alabama was festooned with Confederate flags flown by people protesting the March 1965 Selma-to-Montgomery march.

Robert S. McElvaine summed it up pretty well:

The Confederate flag has never been a symbol of states' rights. The state powers it has represented during and since the Civil War--slavery, segregation, lynching, racism--are all states' wrongs. Many whites, particularly young whites in the South, say that they should not be blamed for what their ancestors did. Fair enough. But if they want to be emancipated from that legacy, they must reject it. The first symbolic step for the younger generation in separating itself from the wrongs of its forebears is not to apologize for slavery, but to stop venerating a heritage that was centered on slavery and a flag that came into existence in defense of slavery.

¹ What almost everyone calls "the Confederate flag" was the battle flag, not one of the national flags of the Confederacy.
² Ironically, Georgia changed its flag to a design that, like the North Carolina flag, resembles the Stars and Bars, the first actual Confederate flag. (Mississippi's flag has incorporated the Confederate battle flag since 1894.)
posted by kirkaracha at 5:42 PM on March 19, 2007 [11 favorites has favorites]

[flagged as fantastic]
posted by fandango_matt at 6:03 PM on March 19, 2007

So I guess we're not going to talk about the time Roscoe got a handjob?
posted by COBRA! at 6:12 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

Southerners don't have many symbols of pride, and yes, a lot are proud of the time Roscoe got a handjob because they have family who died for it to defend their homes.
posted by Roman Graves at 6:28 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

Also, please educate yourself on the civil war before you make statements about "traitors".

Traitor: Takes up arms against his own country.

Describes the CSA *perfectly*

As to "States Rights" -- it is nothing more than a deceitful concept, created *after* the rebellion was crushed by the a former leader of that rebellion, one Jefferson Davis.

The *single biggest mistake* made by the reconstruction republicans was not hanging that man, and several *hundred* more traitors like him. We have paid for that mistake time and time again, and we're paying for it now.

Or, in case you're not getting it.

To hell with the South.

To hell with "Southern Culture."

To hell with the slavery and repression it stands for -- from 1800 to today -- from those who fought and died to keep men enslaved to those bastards on the Mississippi River bridge keeping people from escaping the flooded New Orleans, to those bastards working hard to make sure that "those people" can't vote, can't get the education they need, can't get the health care they need, and so on.

And most importantly, to hell with every one of you sick, perverted bastards -- traitors to all this country stood for -- who attempt to defend those depraved excuses for Americans.
posted by eriko at 6:28 PM on March 19, 2007 [2 favorites has favorites]

I'm sorry a bunch of creeps used the confederate flag as their symbol for hatred and violence. It's the same thing another group of of haters did to an important Hindu symbol.

It's sad that the symbol has been permanently tainted, and can no longer be used in our culture. It's too bad.

We can at least look at the bright side: there'd be a lot of healing and community-building if everyone really got serious about doing the right thing.

Imagine the irony of having a flag-burning party to celebrate a step forward in human equality, social progress, and the power of democracy!
posted by five fresh fish at 6:30 PM on March 19, 2007

the swastika is still used (as it has been for centuries) in Asian and Hindu art, despite its more widespread connotation with Hitler

Widespread connotation with Hitler here in the West. I do not believe the same is at all true in many parts of the East.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:33 PM on March 19, 2007

kirkaracha, thank you for your post. I did want to clarify that McElvaine's statement:

"The Confederate flag has never been a symbol of states' rights."

is rhetorical, not factual. The flag is just a symbol of Southern defiance of the military, legal and cultural dominance of the North. While this has manifested itself wrongheadedly in rallying against just and necessary Federal interventions, it isn't always limited to this sort of thing. Even here in Boston, I've met Southern transplants who own a flag as a matter of pride in their state of origin. They've not been racist - certainly not in comparison to some who fly Irish or Italian flags around here.
posted by kid ichorous at 6:33 PM on March 19, 2007

"it's also a compelling symbol of independence and anti-Federalism to many in the south"

I'd have more sympathy for that viewpoint if the Confederate battle flag hadn't been explicitly adopted as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement.
posted by kirkaracha

I cringe every time I see an rebel flag in the south, and everything you wrote is true.

Yet it has nothing at all to do with why the majority of people in the south who use it as a sign of independence do so. They're not clinging onto the flag because of civil right connections, they're (sadly) ignorant of it's past. To them, it simply represents the south and is used as a defensive mechanism to the multitude (both fair an unfair) attacks by other parts of the country.

And that's why geography matters. One can have a firm grip on history and have little idea of the whys and hows of the south. It's slowly changing, from the inside, and bigoted opinions like those of eriko actually hurt the situation.

Still, even in the past 20 years, it's gotten much better. I think most people outside of the south believe rebel flags are the preferred flag. I hardly ever see the rebel flat in urban deep south. It's last refuge is small rural sections.
posted by justgary at 6:39 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

fff: Widespread connotation with Hitler here in the West. I do not believe the same is at all true in many parts of the East.

What does "here in the west" mean? I live in a city where there are quite a few Asian Americans. The last few times I've seen a swastika (outside of a television), it has been on an Asian product or piece of architecture.
posted by kid ichorous at 6:40 PM on March 19, 2007

Sounds like the NAACP is ruining the perfect amalgam of two celebrated art forms: orchestral music and televised redneck caper solving. Once upon a time people might have said you were crazy to combine peanut butter and chocolate, peas and carrots or Nelly and Tim McGraw. Now they are all ubiquitous and the world is a better place for it. I can just see the conductor of the Cincinnati Pops executing a perfect hood slide across the General Lee and landing on the podium to conduct a crescendo that overpowers the Dodge Hemi as it cranks out the horsepower to power the Dodge off the stage in an acrid cloud of white smoke.
posted by Frank Grimes at 7:54 PM on March 19, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

Yes. And what you describe is not widespread here in the west. Yeesh.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:55 PM on March 19, 2007

The National Association for the Advancement of Cooter People (a Dukes of Hazzard fan club) are horrified by the other NAACP's actions.
posted by Frank Grimes at 7:56 PM on March 19, 2007

The National Association for the Advancement of Cooter People

I thought they developed a topical vaccine for that...
posted by miss lynnster at 8:51 PM on March 19, 2007

Can't mention Boss Hogg without linking to the Boss Hogg Soundboard. Then of course there's the Uncle Jesse soundboard, the Rosco soundboard, and who could forget Daisy Duke.
posted by thisisdrew at 9:06 PM on March 19, 2007

I never watched the show, as I could tell it was fuck-stupid, but I am impressed that they were able to get a character named "Cooter" on national, prime time TV.

Did he have kinfolk named Snatch, or Poontang?
posted by Tube at 9:19 PM on March 19, 2007

I never watched the show, as I could tell it was fuck-stupid

Well then, I've never met you but I can tell you are 'fuck-stupid.'

Hey, you're right! Being an idiot IS fun!
posted by Dagobert at 9:41 PM on March 19, 2007

I wanna hear more about the handjob.
posted by stinkycheese at 10:24 PM on March 19, 2007

To them, it simply represents the south

Is there a time when it didn't represent slavery and racism? South Carolina's justification for secession is largely a defense of slavery. The Confederate constitution (line-by-line comparison with the US Constitution) explicitly endorses slavery and doesn't weaken the central government in favor of states' rights.

The first incarnation of the KKK was almost immediately after the end of the war, founded by former Confederates. The first incarnation of the Klan lasted almost a decade. Mississippi added the Confederate flag to its state flag during the Jim Crow era. Birth of a Nation (1915), which sparked the Klan's second incarnation, features Klansmen consecrating a Confederate flag by dipping it in a dead woman's blood. This incarnation lasted until the early 1940s. The States' Rights Democratic Party (the "Dixiecrats") was founded in 1948 in protest of the Democratic Party adopting an anti-segregationist plank in the platform, and they adopted the Confederate flag as a symbol of defiance.

I've met Southern transplants who own a flag as a matter of pride in their state of origin.

Why can't they use their home state's flag?

I'm not a South-hating northerner. I was raised in Virginia, about 10 miles from the battlefield at Manasses. I've been interested in the Civil War since high school, and I always empathized with the Confederates because they were the underdog, and because the land they were defending was the land I grew up on. I still admire the military achievements of Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee, even though I agree with Ulysses S. Grant that their cause was "one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:27 PM on March 19, 2007

Um, excuse me. The civil war ended 142 years ago. Mmmkay? Some wrong-headed people still promote racism, but they aren't all from Confederate states. Last I noticed, the folks running Washington were doing a job promoting a different racism.

Acting like racism/slavery is the only cultural distinction of the Old South is ignorant, and tiresome. I can't help but think this south-bashing only serves to encourage some folks to wave their rebel flag.
posted by Goofyy at 11:52 PM on March 19, 2007

"I've met Southern transplants who own a flag as a matter of pride in their state of origin."

Were they black?

I don't really know the South very well. I went to Atlanta, Georgia, once. The first thing I noticed was:
"Wow, there sure are a lot of black people around here."
The second thing I noticed was:
"Wait, so why are all the managers white?"

Racism/slavery is the only cultural distinction of the Old South, aside from the mint julep. Some of us are of the opinion that the New South should stop venerating a flag which celebrates all that racism and slavery.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:11 AM on March 20, 2007

To them, it simply represents the south

Is there a time when it didn't represent slavery and racism? South Carolina's justification for secession is largely a defense of slavery. The Confederate constitution (line-by-line comparison with the US Constitution) explicitly endorses slavery and doesn't weaken the central government in favor of states' rights.

Again, you're looking at this as if it's a history class situation, and you're talking about state decisions. When it comes to state decisions, I agree with you. I was referring to individuals. Are there people who use the confederate flag to promote racism? Yes. Do I think the confedarate flag should be flown in the south? No. It has way to much baggage.

But there are plenty of people in the south (ex. alabama) that when asked will tell you it represents southern pride, and they mean it. They don't know anything about why south carolina flies it, they don't know anything about the confederate constitution. You can call them ignorant (and usually poor), and they are, but you're missing the reason they're flying it.

Maybe you can try and educate them, but as long as you have other ignorant people yelling "fuck southern heritage" you're fighting a losing battle.
posted by justgary at 12:22 AM on March 20, 2007

I don't really know the South very well. I went to Atlanta, Georgia, once.
posted by sebastienbailard

Racism/slavery is the only cultural distinction of the Old South
posted by sebastienbailard

That's brilliant.

I don't really know the South very well. I went to Atlanta, Georgia, once. The first thing I noticed was:
"Wow, there sure are a lot of black people around here."
The second thing I noticed was:
"Wait, so why are all the managers white?"
posted by sebastienbailard

New York had the greatest number of black-owned firms with 129,324, followed by California (112,873), Florida (102,079), Georgia (90,461) and Texas (88,769). These five states accounted for about 44 percent of all black-owned businesses in the United States. Other states with high numbers of black-owned firms include Maryland, Illinois, North Carolina, Michigan, Virginia and Louisiana.

Once again, brilliant.
posted by justgary at 12:23 AM on March 20, 2007

link
posted by justgary at 12:24 AM on March 20, 2007

I'd like to thank justgary for being a lot more eloquent than I am.

This south-bashing thing does only encourage some people to wave their rebel flag, and saying that racism/slavery is the only cultural distinction of the Old South is possibly the most ignorant thing I've heard all day (which is remarkable following the post from eriko). People go around shitting on an entire culture and wonder why it's such a sore spot.

None of us Dixie folk are defending the rebel flag, we're simply trying to explain why it continues to have use outside of hateful circumstances. But it appears that most are incapable of seeing this as anything other than a black and white idea (no pun intended).

I'm very proud to be from the South. I'm even more proud because of it's history and that I was able to rise above it as a person. I grew up hearing "nigger" thrown around in casual public conversation and running from that shaped who I am for the better.

The South is a complicated place full of strange duality. I can accept that not everyone understands that, but it disgusts me that most people don't care to try.
posted by Roman Graves at 1:11 AM on March 20, 2007

Georgia USA
White persons, percent, 2005 (a) 66.1% 80.2%
Black persons, percent, 2005 (a) 29.8% 12.8%
Black-owned firms, percent, 2002 13.4% 5.2%

via http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13000.html

Your numbers seem to make sense. I guess Georgia isn't racist any more? (Or maybe black people are more likely to own the little stores, and white people are more likely to own the big stores?)
http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2004/0504leondar.html

"Children in Poverty in Georgia"
"The 2000 U.S. census found that, in Georgia, 354,633 related children under the age of eighteen were living below the poverty level. A majority of these, 222,909, were African American and represented 30 percent of all black children in the state. The census figures show that 9 percent, or 113,621, of all white children, and 25 percent, or 33,364, of all Hispanic children in the state also live in poverty. "
http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-3126&hl=y

We should argue over a different metric, like per capita incarceration rates. I'm sure the situation of black people today has nothing to do with the cultural distinction of the Old South?
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:13 AM on March 20, 2007

Your numbers seem to make sense. I guess Georgia isn't racist any more?

I've argued this topic on metafilter many times (the south is a favorite whipping boy on mefi, you'll fit in nicely), and I decided a while back to just let it go. Every once in a while I get dragged back in. With statements such as that there's no point in any debate.

You've been to the south once yet you seem to have it all figured out in black and white, ultra-simplistic terms. South = Racism. Roman Graves is right, the south is a complicated place. I'll be the first to admit the south's shortcomings, and it's far from perfect. But the worst attitudes in the south are no different than your attitude towards the south. Changing someone's mind who sees the south as evil and the lone bastion of racism is no easier than changing the mind of a hardcore racist. They're both deep rooted in hate and ignorance.

It reminds me of summers spent in a small town in New England. Northerners who only knew of the south through books would ask ridiculous questions about race, problems with race, etc, almost as if we still had different bathrooms. Meanwhile, there wasn't a black person living there.

Atlanta also has a black woman as mayor, and a black police chief. But you've been there once, so you know, maybe progress is just an illusion.
posted by justgary at 1:55 AM on March 20, 2007

So as we all agree that slavery is bad, then anyone who owned slaves is bad and any symbol that these people used is bad, why do we still venerate the Founding Fathers. Shouldn't we disavow ourselves of symbols they used too?

I am against using the Rebel flag and the Stars and Bars when the intended point is to support slavery but is it necessary to throw the baby out with the bathwater?
posted by Dagobert at 2:16 AM on March 20, 2007

On the 'Damned Show' DVD there is a spoof of the Dukes called 'The Gooks of Hazzard' which includes some Asian-Americans.
posted by doctorschlock at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2007

The South?
posted by Otis at 8:08 AM on March 20, 2007

sigh.
posted by tadellin at 9:08 AM on March 20, 2007

i'm glad i'm a yankee and live in a state where black people aren't segregated, the klu klux klan isn't active, confederate flags aren't flown, and i didn't grow up hearing the word "nigger"

there's just one problem with that ... except for being a yankee, everything i just wrote is a baldfaced lie

i grew up in a town that some have nicknamed "little detroit" ... i have a black co-worker who grew up in the same town who calls it "little mississippi"

he didn't have to explain it to me, i knew
posted by pyramid termite at 4:42 AM on March 21, 2007