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Cold War back on.
June 3, 2007 6:46 PM   Subscribe

Cold War back on.
posted by reklaw (159 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

 
*digs bomb shelter, fills it with kool-aid, Dave Brubeck records and cans of corned beef hash. and a can opener. this time i wont forget the can opener*
posted by jonmc at 6:48 PM on June 3, 2007 [5 favorites]


What a dick.

But of course, shrub and Condi set the stage for this with their idiotic missile defense boondoggle.
posted by delmoi at 6:51 PM on June 3, 2007


Bring it. We've done this before.

*crawls under desk*
posted by disclaimer at 6:52 PM on June 3, 2007


Turduckencover.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:53 PM on June 3, 2007 [10 favorites]


Why do I just end up feeling more and more helpless every day? I'm going to school to try to change some of this stuff, but I can't help but feel that there's nothing really to be done.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 6:54 PM on June 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


The Bush administration insists that planned missile interceptors and radars in Poland and the Czech Republic are no threat to Moscow. The Pentagon claims the system is designed to shoot down missiles from Iran and North Korea.

In an unrelated story, the Russian Government has placed 12 ballistic-missile submarines off the coast of New York City.

Senior Russian officials say the submarines are there to counteract aggression from Brazil.
posted by Avenger at 6:54 PM on June 3, 2007 [22 favorites]


Mission Accomplished!
posted by pruner at 6:58 PM on June 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


george, while you were busy looking into putin's soul, why the fuck didn't you look into your own, you stupid, stupid bastard? ... what was the point of us winning the cold war just to have your stupid ass start it up again now?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:59 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


When will someone in a position of authority actually say what everyone is thinking?

"Dear Putin,

Fuck off, loser."
posted by odinsdream at 7:00 PM on June 3, 2007


In a further jibe at the US, Mr Putin said no one country should be allowed to dictate its views to others. "Certain participants in the international arena assume that their opinion is the ultimate truth. That, naturally, does not help create an atmosphere of trust."

Neither does arming up.

I sympathize with his motivations for what Putin is doing, but not with what he is doing. This is not the way to get where we want to go. This is not the way.
posted by orange swan at 7:01 PM on June 3, 2007


Ah Fatherland!
posted by OrangeDrink at 7:03 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Does this mean that Frankie Goes To Hollywood were actually relevant and may be so again?

Woo- hoo! Now I don't have to secretly disgusted with myself for enjoying yesterday's FPP !

Now I can be open about it! Woo-hoo!
posted by humannaire at 7:05 PM on June 3, 2007


How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. Really.
posted by Sailormom at 7:10 PM on June 3, 2007


OK, so now we've always been at war with Eurasia, right?
posted by pompomtom at 7:12 PM on June 3, 2007 [9 favorites]


Putin's just trying to cash in on the fact that the 80s are back.
posted by hob at 7:12 PM on June 3, 2007 [6 favorites]


Time to unearth zombie Reagan. *brains*
posted by i_am_a_Jedi at 7:13 PM on June 3, 2007


I can't help but think this is just the logical progression of the ZOMG neocons and their pursuit of scaring the ever-living shit out of the American populace.

Neocons: ZOMG TERRISTS WILL KILL YOU! We have never lived in such danger!

American: Never? So what was having 20,000 nukes pointed at our heads for nigh on 50 years? A tea party?

Neocons: ...

Putin: Bleah! I vant to shoot missiles!

Neocons: ZOMG CRZY RUSSKIES AND MISSLES WILL KILL YOU! We have never lived in such danger!
posted by quite unimportant at 7:16 PM on June 3, 2007 [10 favorites]


Oh, great...now I've got this video stuck in my head.

*joins disclaimer underneath the desk*
posted by MissNefertiti at 7:16 PM on June 3, 2007


cool, just when my stock was flatting out.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 7:18 PM on June 3, 2007


pootie-toot-toot!
posted by quonsar at 7:26 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Woah. I saw The Police this weekend and Patrick Swayze was near me in the audience. It's like we're going back to the future.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:27 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


do

not


WANT
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:27 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


And all I can think about are sheets of kombo (kelp) covered herring roe.
posted by AmberV at 7:28 PM on June 3, 2007


Maybe this will put the so-called WoT in perspective. I know we were not nearly so afraid of terrorists when the threat of nuclear armageddon was there.
posted by absalom at 7:31 PM on June 3, 2007


On the bright side, this may very well portend the resurrection of Bloom County.
posted by milquetoast at 7:33 PM on June 3, 2007 [6 favorites]


It might help a friend of mine get over her irrational fear of the earth being stormed by a ravenous army of the walking dead, too, but I consider that rather cold comfort.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:33 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


FFS.

One of my fears is that the American public is going to just wait and wait and wait for things to change, while a corrupt Administration brings the world to global war, environmental destruction, and economic collapse, all in the hopes of provoking Armageddon.

They are fucking evil lunatics. Get them out of office already, dammit!
posted by five fresh fish at 7:36 PM on June 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


At least Cold War I was about something - communism versus Democracy - Cold War II is, what?
posted by stbalbach at 7:37 PM on June 3, 2007


Time to unearth zombie Reagan.

George W. Bush clearly has one super-power: the ability to make dyed-in-the-wool liberals simultaneously nostalgic for Reagan, Nixon, and Barry Goldwater.
posted by Creosote at 7:38 PM on June 3, 2007 [3 favorites]


Where is Ronnie now that our nation needs him? Standing close to Patrick Swayze? That is nearly as threatening
posted by Postroad at 7:38 PM on June 3, 2007


Morons on either side of the Bering strait. What you gonna do?
posted by signal at 7:41 PM on June 3, 2007


look at the silver lining: a regional nuclear exchange will kick up enough debris to halt global warming long enough for us to figure out a remedy.
posted by bruce at 7:44 PM on June 3, 2007


Well, I guess if the Bush administration couldn't provoke China into a nuclear war, Russia will have to do.


Seriously, do these guys have thier own private planets or something? What do they expect the spoils of an all out nuclear holocaust to be?
posted by maryh at 7:46 PM on June 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


We're going to get some seriously awesome thrash metal out of this.
posted by The Straightener at 7:46 PM on June 3, 2007 [4 favorites]


I guess Putin isn't going to feel the need to roll into Afghanistan anytime soon, huh?

Dammit.
posted by Talanvor at 7:49 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Maybe even a sequel to Blast From The Past!
posted by Xere at 7:49 PM on June 3, 2007


As a child of the 80s, I approve of this new direction in geopolitics.

Hey neighbor let me give you some advice
The russians are about to pulverize us
In our sleep tonight
That is if the crazy arabs
Or the riots dont get us first
And the fire will rain down from the sky
The fire will rain down from the sky
People will die--people will die
People will die--people will die
But go ahead sleep tight in your beds
Remember what the wise man said

posted by Heywood Mogroot at 7:50 PM on June 3, 2007 [3 favorites]


At least Cold War I was about something - communism versus Democracy - Cold War II is, what?

Corporate imperialism vs. totalitarian kleptocracy!

(So it's the Godfather III of geopolitical sequels. Whaddaya gonna do?)
posted by gompa at 7:50 PM on June 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


Who benefits the most from a new cold war?
posted by _aa_ at 7:53 PM on June 3, 2007


Step one: you cut a hole in the box.
posted by 517 at 7:57 PM on June 3, 2007 [6 favorites]


Hawks on both sides?
posted by cavalier at 7:59 PM on June 3, 2007


I, for one, am not surprised.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:01 PM on June 3, 2007


Weird thing this time - America is seen as the big bad bear...
posted by Webbster at 8:04 PM on June 3, 2007


posted by maryh Seriously, do these guys have thier own private planets or something? What do they expect the spoils of an all out nuclear holocaust to be?

The stock prices of Halliburton and KBR when they're awarded the rebuilding contracts.
posted by fandango_matt at 8:06 PM on June 3, 2007


I refuse to play bad cop. Canada it is.
posted by litfit at 8:06 PM on June 3, 2007


Eh. Both sides are trying to keep the people in line. It's all a lot of show boating if you ask me.

I for one am glad to be able to use the term "russkies" again.
posted by Roman Graves at 8:14 PM on June 3, 2007


Put-être, he thought Bush was suggestively dubbing him "Shootie Shoot."
posted by rob511 at 8:14 PM on June 3, 2007


When/if Mitt "Flip-Flop" Romney takes charge, all Americans -- like all Mormon families -- will be mandated to have at least a one-year survival supply on-hand, as in the Mormon Table of Four Survival Plan.

Have faith my Brothers and Sisters. We'll be equipped to survive any Cold (aka "Fucking, Freakin' Hot, Melting-All Molecules, Elements and Illicit Substances) War.

School kids -- remember to "duck-and-cover (aka Turduckencover)." A suggestion -- lodge your head as far up your assshole as possible. The smell will be far more pleasant than that of your burning skin, organs and skeletal framework.
posted by ericb at 8:21 PM on June 3, 2007


So is this what it feels like to stand on the threshold of a really, really bad shift in the course of history? If so, it sure does suck.
posted by treepour at 8:22 PM on June 3, 2007 [4 favorites]


If we wait long enough the Russkies (!) will just die off anyway. That shield is a waste of money!
posted by Scoo at 8:25 PM on June 3, 2007


This is what happens when you have an administration who's only willing to work with other leaders in a 'my way or the highway' attitude.

What do you expect Putin to do when the US is explicitly violating treaties it has signed in regards to the construction of missile defense systems?

I don't like the guy, but he has to react to the unilateral decisions the US is making in the geopolitical theater.
posted by id at 8:33 PM on June 3, 2007


I made you a missle, but I launcheded it.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:35 PM on June 3, 2007 [10 favorites]


On the plus side, I may be able to finally execute the end of the world/nuclear apocalypse plan I devised in the eighth grade. On the minus side, that plan involved being at the mall when the bombs starting falling and totally hooking up with that hot guy at the Orange Julius.
posted by thivaia at 8:37 PM on June 3, 2007


Stop worrying, George has it under control. He's invited Vlad to a sleepover at Dad's house. Hopefully Putin will leave his dog back in the Kremlin.
posted by maryh at 8:38 PM on June 3, 2007


When will someone in a position of authority actually say what everyone is thinking?

"Dear Bush,

Fuck off, you malcompetent sociopath."
posted by stenseng at 8:39 PM on June 3, 2007 [4 favorites]


So anybody know what Putin's plans are after the election?
posted by afu at 8:45 PM on June 3, 2007 [4 favorites]


What do they expect the spoils of an all out nuclear holocaust to be?

Ascension to heaven.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:49 PM on June 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


I'm a bit confused. Whose the bad guys this time?

Soviet Style 'Torture' Becomes 'Interrogation'
posted by Ironmouth at 8:51 PM on June 3, 2007


It's all a lot of show boating if you ask me.

Isn't that sort of what Saddam was doing around '02-'03? And don't we have enough sickening dread hanging around already? Honestly, I'm finding it difficult to keep a Mr. Rogers-like outlook when what I really want to do is smash a particular of foolish-looking face in with a brick.

Dear Mr Bush: let's not pointlessly antagonize the slimy sociopath who gets his chuckles by imagining his dog tearing up your dog. Let's just...not.
posted by frobozz at 8:52 PM on June 3, 2007


The Missile Defence has been a stupid idea from the start. It hardly works and doesn't offer any protection. Not against Iran, Russia or China.

So why provoking Russia - which has hardly any 'friends' around it - with installing loads of hardware right at it's border?!

The descalation since the end of the USSR so far worked oke, NATO expanded, the EU expanded, trade and travell increased. Although Russia politics has become worse overal relations were not bad. Escpecially on the military side - since Russia had with it's resources a big enough 'stick'.

So once again it is stupid to force the Russians to step up it's military power, since it will take away badly needed money to rebuild the countries society and economy. We need a stable Russia and an 'open' Russia.

Europe doesn't want a military conflict and most people dislike or even hate the whole american initiative. Some east european politicians might enjoy provoking it's old master under the protection of the US. And the US enjoy's playing HyperPower again and again ... for no real benefit for world peace.

So if this really turns into a cold war, I will find myself once again protesting in front of US bases like in the late eighties when the Pershing II came to Europe.
posted by homodigitalis at 9:05 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Sweet. This is such a relief. Happy times are here again.


At least Cold War I was about something - communism versus Democracy - Cold War II is, what?


Russia needs to reassert its sphere of influence. It'd be insane to stand by and wring their hands while America builds a new global empire, tossing huge military bases and posts all over Europe and Asia and Africa.

And this sets up the communists to play their trump card which is Iran. A nuclear Iran will wield enormous influence and gain major prestige and Moscow can make it happen. They don't even have to be secret about it. Russia and Iran already have the channels in place, somebody just needs to say the magic words, "mutual defense."
posted by nixerman at 9:07 PM on June 3, 2007


Vote Kasparov!
posted by Partial Law at 9:07 PM on June 3, 2007


I refuse to play bad cop. Canada it is.

Interesting thing about Canada. As a country, I like it a lot.

But if you are from the US and you are running away, they don't want you.

I learned this by moving there...when the US declared war on Iraq, spring '03.

Just so you know, I was made welcome, and fell in love and am now looking to move back, but the whole my-country-sucks-so-I-am-moving-to-yours thing is a no-go.

And I even renounced my citizenship before a US consular agent during a time of war. Big no-no. But it still didn't fly.

Canada for sure wants the US to get it together. (Hey, Canada was able to do it!) But heads up. Just because you imagine you personally are not part of the solution does not make you Canada's problem.
posted by humannaire at 9:14 PM on June 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


Bush Flunks Diplomacy 101
posted by homunculus at 9:22 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Heiligendamm

Exactly what I was thinking.
posted by Clay201 at 9:29 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Russia's Putin warns of retaliatory steps if U.S. installs missile defense in Europe

"Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks."

"The missiles are flying. Hallelujah. Hallelujah!"

Wolverines!
posted by kirkaracha at 9:38 PM on June 3, 2007


So we're back to this, then?

Oh well, we've been calm enough for 16 years. It's sometimes so bizarre to remember how things were, how we thought and what we worried about before 1991 - in the mid-80s, say - and strange to know or work with people who had never really known it. I've always wondered how people that age looked at all the old movies and music and books from the Cold War, and from the nuke scares and whether it seemed utterly unreal. I wonder if we'll really go back to that?
posted by dilettante at 9:42 PM on June 3, 2007


Add India to the list
posted by Webbster at 9:47 PM on June 3, 2007


"And this sets up the communists to play their trump card which is Iran. A nuclear Iran will wield enormous influence and gain major prestige and Moscow can make it happen. They don't even have to be secret about it. Russia and Iran already have the channels in place, somebody just needs to say the magic words, "mutual defense.""


the "communists?"


What.


Seriously.
posted by stenseng at 9:50 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


"Car!"

....

"Game on!"
posted by anthill at 9:55 PM on June 3, 2007 [3 favorites]


Well, if history is any guide, those damned Daleks are behind this plot. You'll see. You will all see!
posted by Kikkoman at 9:58 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I was wondering the same thing when I read that, stenseng. Sounds like somebody was a little too brainwashed during Cold War 1.0
posted by Eekacat at 10:09 PM on June 3, 2007


So anybody know what Putin's plans are after the election?

Hah. Like Putin is going to allow another election. While everyone thought Russia was turning into a democratic state, Putin has been bringing it right back into the Soviet era, just sans communist ideology. He was the head of the KGB, and now his cabinet is filled with former KGB members. Russia has just become the largest mafia in the world.
posted by KingoftheWhales at 10:12 PM on June 3, 2007 [3 favorites]


Thanks to all this sabre-rattling, I've finally found a reason to buy a gun. So I can shoot myself in the head before this happens to me.
posted by chrominance at 10:12 PM on June 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


It's the final countdown.

DEEDLE DEE DEE.
DEEDLE DEET DEET DEE.
posted by davelog at 10:12 PM on June 3, 2007 [4 favorites]


Wow, if I were a defense contractor that made nuclear missiles I'd be tickled pink right now. Of course it would be very cynical of anyone to think that any of their campaign donations to Bush/Cheney had anything to do with this.
posted by any major dude at 10:27 PM on June 3, 2007


Well, if it's not love,
then it's the bomb
the bomb the bomb the bomb the bomb
that will bring us together.
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:37 PM on June 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


Like Putin is going to allow another election.

Well, he may allow another "election," but his hand-picked successor is supposedly Sergei Ivanov, who is ideologically his soulmate and also (unlike Putin) happens to speak fluent English. Should be an interesting next everal years.
posted by blucevalo at 10:38 PM on June 3, 2007


several years
posted by blucevalo at 10:40 PM on June 3, 2007


Canada for sure wants the US to get it together. (Hey, Canada was able to do it!) But heads up. Just because you imagine you personally are not part of the solution does not make you Canada's problem.

I'm half-joking, but some of us are familiar with Canadian immigration law (so refreshingly straightforward) and fortunate enough to already have one foot on either side of the border. A friend's reactionary move there, however, turned out much worse than the experiences you describe.

Let's don't talk about "solutions" in the context of the US when we're currently exhibiting some of the symptoms of fascism.
posted by litfit at 10:48 PM on June 3, 2007


No one likes us
I don't know why.
We may not be perfect
But heaven knows we try.
But all around even our old friends put us down.
Let's drop the big one and see what happens.


Also

.
posted by tzikeh at 12:04 AM on June 4, 2007


Well, at least the rapture index (#23 - Gog [Russia]) is up, with Putin threatening Europe. I am inclined to think this dispensationalism business is too obscure to matter, but then there is that speech of Bill Moyers' at Harvard Medical School ....
posted by Adamchik at 12:05 AM on June 4, 2007


Don't bomb when you're the bomb.
posted by nonmerci at 12:06 AM on June 4, 2007


Cold war, eh? I guess it beats what I had planned for next week.

Man, do I hate that country sometimes.
posted by Krrrlson at 12:21 AM on June 4, 2007


I'm kinda glad this is happening. We (the US) have been abusing our power unopposed for a bit to long. And the irony if the situation is almost poetic. I mean, the disconnect is astonishing:
"Condoleezza Rice said Thursday that Russian President Vladimir Putin's moves to consolidate power are troubling."

We did this. We deserve this. We put a president who would rather swing his dick at problems than use diplomacy. Now another dick swinging leader has taken up the challenge and "OMG, how did this happen?" reports the new.

That, and Russians make better bad guys in the movies. Sorry, but its true.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 12:42 AM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]


Hey, you see that?

I just backed that dog into a corner with a big stick, and now it's growling -- I say growing at me!

Vicious fucking dog.
posted by dreamsign at 1:09 AM on June 4, 2007 [3 favorites]


(growling both times)
posted by dreamsign at 1:09 AM on June 4, 2007


I don't think Bush knows who he's fucking with.
posted by Optamystic at 3:09 AM on June 4, 2007


We deserve this.

Maybe, but it's the Europeans he's threatening to annihilate.
posted by Phanx at 3:12 AM on June 4, 2007


People just don't want to believe a war could happen. The old Cold War has convinced them that shit like that can go on forever without blowing up. And people living near the new missile bases involved think of it more as a lucky prize:
The future location of the U.S. anti-missile shield in Poland is still an official secret but in the northern city of Slupsk [good spot for intercepting Iranian missiles, eh?] the locals already know they may live next to it.

The facility, which has caused controversy in Europe and anger in Moscow, is a hot topic in Slupsk and nearby Redzikowo, an ex-military airfield poised to house the rocket silos and about 200 U.S. military personnel.

Surveys show most Poles oppose the conservative government's plan to host the anti-missile base, fearing it could make ex-communist Poland a target for attack.

But in Slupsk and Redzikowo, apprehension seems outweighed by hopes for an economic boost and a new lease of life for the struggling community around the defunct airfield.
Maybe we'll be blown off the map eventually, but in the meantime we'll get 200 Americans (earning about as much as 600 locals?) living and spending here, plus all the jobs created in building the base and supporting it for the next X years. Yay, crapitalism.
posted by pracowity at 3:24 AM on June 4, 2007


It's the eighties all over again! Suddenly, my CD collection has become more relevant. Only this time around, I'll have the financial wherewithal to stockpile the resources I need to repopulate the planet out of a spring-laden cave just off of the Meremac River with my friends.

And, while we're pulling out the old song lyrics, "I hope the Russians love their children too."
posted by adipocere at 4:21 AM on June 4, 2007


*sigh*

And yet more proof that the world can resemble a skipping record. (Or a scratched CD.)
posted by Neilopolis at 4:34 AM on June 4, 2007


Itsu, the London sushi establishment where Litvinenko may have been poisoned by Putin with plonium-210, is also taking an aggressive stance towards its neighbor.
posted by Martin E. at 4:38 AM on June 4, 2007


"STRUGGLE!"
posted by Neilopolis at 4:55 AM on June 4, 2007


It's just talk, and mostly for the Russian audience.

Plus, this bellicose braggadocio is the only kind of language that Bush & co can communicate in anyway - maybe this'll actually get through to them. They've certainly never listened to any of the reasoned, sensible reasons why a missile defense 'shield' is utterly stupid.
posted by Flashman at 5:32 AM on June 4, 2007


How is it that Bush and America can drop out of all these arms treaties, and generally run around acting like a dick, and when Putin reacts, he's suddenly a jerk-ass for starting the cold war extended dance remix.
posted by chunking express at 5:59 AM on June 4, 2007


You know, you'd think that Bush would at the very least risk putting the U.S. back onto the brink on intercontinental war over something that works. I mean at least in Iraq, there was oil. He lied about the WMDs and we all knew it was just about the oil, but even though he fucked it all up there is actually oil in Iraq.

The missile system? It doesn't work. It never did. It never will. It does. Not. Work. We're risking war over that? With Russia? It's like breaking into your neighbor's house to steal the BetaMax player sitting in a cardboard box in his rec room.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 6:00 AM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]



Do we get punk rock again?

Because I'll take more punk rock. And old school hip-hop.

Other than that, I don't want the nightmares or the dead certainty ("Red Dawn" anyone?) that I will die in a nuclear war.

I hope to god the next US President has a brain because this is getting to be a serious drag. I need a break from history.
posted by From Bklyn at 6:05 AM on June 4, 2007


stbalbach: "At least Cold War I was about something - communism versus Democracy - Cold War II is, what?"

Actually, CWI was about Capitalism vs. Communism. 'Democracy' was fine for the rich western nations, but not really an overall goal (for instance, the toppling of left-wing democracies in Latin America and their replacement by right-wing (capitalist) dictatorships in the '70s).

And, on a more profound level, CWI was not so much a struggle between 2 opposing ideas as a way to galvanize and keep in check each side's client-nations and populace. A semi-permanent, built-in external enemy.

The more things change...
posted by signal at 6:11 AM on June 4, 2007


USSA - USSR

/butthole
posted by Balisong at 6:21 AM on June 4, 2007


The only winning move is not to play.
posted by doublesix at 6:38 AM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]


It's just talk, and mostly for the Russian audience.

Russia has just successfully tested two new missiles. It's not ALL just talk.

Man, americans are so fucking pathetic! You've got pretty much everything you wanted in the 90's. Berlin wall fell, Cold war ended, Russia opened up to foreign investment. A whole bunch of missiles that where pointing at you and Western Europe were scrapped. But hey, that was just not good enough for you, you ignorant, cocky rednecks. You just had to go around waving your dick and pissing off people. We're super-hyper-mega-giga-motherfucka power! We're the New Rome! History ended!
We can do whatever we want. Well, guess what, you can't. You can't do anything about an old dude on a dialysis machine, you can't do anything about the retarded alcoholic hick that somehow got to be your President. (well, we know how THAT happened. You idiots voted for him because he looked cool throwing a football and acted like a freaking herdsman, something that for some reason passes for teh cool for you people.) And now this dipshit has pissed off enough people to re-iginte something that you spent fifty years hiding under a desk or in a hole in the backyard form. And the smartest thing you can come up with is jokes about your 80's CD collection.

"We want to be heard, we want our position to be understood. But if that does not happen, we lift from ourselves any responsibility for the steps we take in response, because we are not the ones who are initating the arms race in Europe."

This shit is serious, people!
posted by c13 at 6:42 AM on June 4, 2007 [3 favorites]


Settle down, Beavis.
posted by Optamystic at 6:48 AM on June 4, 2007 [3 favorites]


c13: yes, cos all 350 million Americans are to blame for the pitiful foreign policy of one pitiful man and his pitiful band of cronies. Indeed. Rant on, you crazy diamond.
posted by absalom at 6:55 AM on June 4, 2007


As a child of the 80s, I approve of this new direction in geopolitics.

Heh, an Oingo Boingo fan, there ARE others out there.
posted by mattoxic at 6:59 AM on June 4, 2007


absalom: "c13: all 350 million Americans are to blame for the pitiful foreign policy of one pitiful man and his pitiful band of cronies. "

Yes. At the very least, guilty by inaction.
posted by signal at 7:02 AM on June 4, 2007


Just friggin' great. I spent the first thirty years of my life figuring I'd disappear in a puff of radioactive smoke and now I get to spend the last thirty years of my life figuring the same friggin' thing.

It just goes to show that I've always been right about one thing: nobody who actually wants to be president/prime minister/supreme dictator or whatever its called in your country should under any circumstances be allowed to do the job.
posted by lordrunningclam at 7:06 AM on June 4, 2007


yes, cos all 350 million Americans are to blame for the pitiful foreign policy of one pitiful man and his pitiful band of cronies.

Riiight. Half the country didn't vote for him and the other half is doing everything they possibly can to contain the motherfucker. And of course one one but him is responsible. The good christian folks of the military-industrial complex obviously are against the whole idea.
posted by c13 at 7:39 AM on June 4, 2007


Yes. At the very least, guilty by inaction.

What's the recommended action, then, revolution whenever the election doesn't go your way?
posted by mkb at 7:46 AM on June 4, 2007


I think that GWB is still having issues with that fuzzy math thing. He thinks that the cold war and global warming will cancel each other out.
posted by leftcoastbob at 7:48 AM on June 4, 2007 [3 favorites]


c13: yes, cos all 350 million Americans are to blame for the pitiful foreign policy of one pitiful man and his pitiful band of cronies.

I for one feel some personal culpability, yes. Can't speak for the other 349,999,999. This wasn't Saddam's Iraq where tight social controls, an incredibly ornate network of snitches, and the very real threat of execution kept internally driven social and political change from happening. As Americans we have the freedom and the tools to direct the course of the nation. Those of us who believe in diplomacy and cooperation with the rest of world did not succeed against those who favor a belligerent and aggressive stance. What's happening here now is as much about "our" failure as "their" success.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 7:50 AM on June 4, 2007 [2 favorites]


As Americans we have the freedom and the tools to direct the course of the nation.

As Democratic party's disregard of the will of the voters and approval of Iraq war spending bill aptly illustrates..

Look, I'm just pretty pissed at the moment. We're rapidly loosing any ground we've made since the 90's. Only this time in addition to nuclear annihilation we've got to worry about the terrorists, global warming, peak oil, 8-trillion debt (or whatever it is up to now), an a police state here at home. But hey, bring 'em on!

By the way, US population is 301,139,947 (July 2007 est.). Just crossed 300 million last October.
posted by c13 at 8:10 AM on June 4, 2007


Don't forget, he wasn't elected the first time round; it was a judicial coup d'etat.

I share the frustration-- can you guys pls elect someone sane next time round, kthnxbi-- but don't act as if every disenfranchised American voter is personally responsible for Bushco. Not to mention that millions of them marched against the invasion, and were ignored.
posted by jokeefe at 8:12 AM on June 4, 2007


Do we get punk rock again?

Because I'll take more punk rock. And old school hip-hop.

posted by From Bklyn

I don't know, but I hope we don't get more reggae songs about redemption. Wouldn't you hate to sing another song of freedom? That's all I ever had. Redemption songs.
posted by micayetoca at 8:17 AM on June 4, 2007


You idiots voted for him because he looked cool throwing a football and acted like a freaking herdsman, something that for some reason passes for teh cool for you people.

The popular vote went to Gore the first time and the second time the difference between the exit polls and actual "results" was so great that the election would have been declared a fraud anywhere else in the world. While this may be news to some Americans due to our pathetic and thoroughly complicit media, I thought people from allegedly more enlightened parts of the world were better informed.
posted by treepour at 8:18 AM on June 4, 2007 [2 favorites]


Apparently Sting was wrong and the Russians actually hate their children too.
posted by GuyZero at 8:19 AM on June 4, 2007


I couldn't find 'Red Skies At Night', but 'Stand Or Fall' by the The Fixx is just as good.

Now where did I put all my cassettes from the 80's?
posted by sparkzy at 8:32 AM on June 4, 2007


but don't act as if every disenfranchised American voter is personally responsible for Bushco.

Expansion of NATO into Easter Europe started happening long before Bushco came to power. It's not that Russians just flipped out over the radar thing all of a sudden. The imperial king-of-the-hill attitude is shared by both Republican and Democrats in equal measure, and the messianic zeal to "show the light" is not confined to the snake-handlers. Bush may be an outlier, but he can't be held responsible for all of it.

GuyZero, Russians actually worry about their children. They see how America brings freedom and democracy to the world and they are concerned. But you would have to be a sane person to understand that.
posted by c13 at 8:39 AM on June 4, 2007


How long until Bush's version of the "I've just signed legislation that outlaws Russia forever. The bombing will begin in five minutes" comment? And how long until he actually does it, the crazy bastard?

WOLVERINES! indeed.

Pooty-poot, let's not forget, is also a member of a spytastic family with power-grabbing issues (former KGB head having a spat with child of former CIA head? gotta love it). And he's been pals with the Bushes for a while. I don't want to go all tinfoil hatty here, but maybe this is the 2008-election-prevention mechanism?
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:40 AM on June 4, 2007 [2 favorites]


That's right, folks: the U.S. acts and the world reacts. There is never another explanation for any other countries' behavior and they always tell the truth about their intent and rationale.
posted by rockhopper at 8:42 AM on June 4, 2007 [3 favorites]


This sounds like the set up for a joke or the basis of a satirical novel: A Presidential administration so pathologically inept, it undoes the "crowning achievement" of it's greatest hero, Ronald Reagan.

Hilarious. Terrifying.

*Cues up Eighties by Killing Joke on itunes and goes to dig up CRASS and Dead Kennedy's vinyl*
posted by Skygazer at 8:46 AM on June 4, 2007


That's right, folks: the U.S. acts and the world reacts. There is never another explanation for any other countries' behavior and they always tell the truth about their intent and rationale.

No, they just hate us for our freedoms.
posted by c13 at 9:00 AM on June 4, 2007


Eighties
posted by Skygazer at 9:01 AM on June 4, 2007


Metafilter: taking what Putin says at face value.
posted by rockhopper at 9:03 AM on June 4, 2007 [2 favorites]


I always wondered what it would be like to time-travel.
posted by rtha at 9:13 AM on June 4, 2007


DO YOU WANT TO PLAY A GAME?
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:39 AM on June 4, 2007


DO YOU WANT TO PLAY A GAME?

*ahem*

do

not

...

....

.....

WAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTT
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:48 AM on June 4, 2007 [2 favorites]


Translating the abundance of no doubt baffling '80s pop culture references for anyone reading this who is under 25:

Bush: This...is...SPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRTTTTTTTAAAAAA

Putin:
No, THIS...is...SPPPPPPAAAAAAARRRRRTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


My work here is done.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:53 AM on June 4, 2007


So, c13, someone's forcing to live here? Boy, that must suck.

You're an American Citizen. Are you including yourself as one of the "fucking pathetic"? If not, why haven't you saved us all from our own stupidity?


Just curious.
posted by mewithoutyou at 9:59 AM on June 4, 2007


So, speak up, whippersnappers! Who among you do not actively remember the Cold War? There's a small but significant generation gap between me (born '81) and those just a few years younger whose active memory doesn't really extend earlier than the fall of the Wall and the disintegration of the USSR (and Holland's European football championship, but I digress). I wonder if this goes for Americans as well.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:02 AM on June 4, 2007


When is Bush just going to rip his fucking mask off and reveal the goat's head underneath?

Oh yeah: When his cloven hooves can dance on our ashes.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:12 AM on June 4, 2007


So whose crown prince we gotta shoot to make this thing hot?
posted by eegphalanges at 10:20 AM on June 4, 2007 [6 favorites]


Does this mean we can have Carl Sagan back? I miss Cosmos.
posted by everichon at 10:24 AM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]


Morons on either side of the Bering strait. What you gonna do?

Liberal Democracy not dead. Move to the Netherlands, or maybe Norwat or Sweden, farther away from the US than Canada.

Think about the Jews that fled Hitler, to Paris or Antwerp or Amsterdam...

I bet they felt like real schmucks on the train to Auschwitz.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:48 AM on June 4, 2007


Iranian Envoy Larijani calls US missile defense 'joke of the year'
posted by maryh at 10:55 AM on June 4, 2007


*Cues up Eighties by Killing Joke on itunes and goes to dig up CRASS and Dead Kennedy's vinyl*

Oh yeah! Killing Joke! I saw them at the Hammersmith Palais (I think) in the summer of '83! Great stuff! We'd just come back from Berlin and seeing, like, the Wall and stuff. And Crass! Awesome! THE NATURE OF YOUR OPPRESSION IS THE AESTHETIC OF OUR ANGER! Kickass.

And the DKs, of course! *wanders off singing Holiday in Cambodia at top of lungs*
posted by jokeefe at 11:14 AM on June 4, 2007


If Putin really wants to threaten Europe, he'll stop sending them oil this winter.

This posturing is aimed right at Bushco, and to scare the other G8 and Euro governments into pressuring Bushco along with him. I hope it works, the missile defense system is a foolish waste of time and money and we really have better things to do than antagonize the Russians.
posted by zoogleplex at 11:36 AM on June 4, 2007


This thread nicely illustrates why the USA is viewed in the way it is nowadays in the rest of the world. Bravo everybody!
posted by stinkycheese at 11:47 AM on June 4, 2007



The whole missle defenses thing is about the dough-re-mi anyway, isn't it?

I mean, it never worked. The whole thing is so transparent. Of course, I thought invading Iraq was transparently war-for-war-profits' sake too, but I seemed to be in the minority...
posted by From Bklyn at 11:59 AM on June 4, 2007


On the bright side, this may very well portend the resurrection of Bloom County.

Psst, hey, milquetoast. Don't look now, but Berke is back at Salon.
posted by cgc373 at 12:05 PM on June 4, 2007


Vladmir Putin has also announced that he is the true heir of Mahatma Gandhi.
posted by gsteff at 12:20 PM on June 4, 2007


So, c13, someone's forcing to live here? Boy, that must suck

Like I said, mewithoutyou, I'm just pissed. One of the reasons that I'm pissed is that I'm forced to seriously consider leaving. And I really, really don't want to do it, but the way things are going leaves little alternative. The degree of stupidity is such that neither I nor anyone else can help, I'm afraid. The decider is starting a new Cold War while the Congress is trying to sue OPEC because they think we should have cheaper gas.


Zoogleplex, they are not posturing. They've just tested a cruise missile that is pretty much identical to the one that got scrapped before, both designed specifically with Europe in mind. And a brand spanking new MIRVed ICBM that has the latest bag of tricks against ABM systems. And here we are worrying about Iran.
posted by c13 at 1:11 PM on June 4, 2007


No one saw this coming? Seriously?
Defense strategy is so much a language of it’s own, but it’s really easy to read sometimes.
(Which is why I kick myself in the ass over Iraq so much because between what I knew and what people were telling me I went with what people were saying because I trusted their integrity. Last time that happens).

Seems to me this lends itself to a greater world stability. It might appear as though opposition of U.S. dominance is a negative thing, but we are/were in danger of our reach vastly outstripping our grasp and that would lead to a serious, and potentially world-threatening, upheaval.

This creates a nice prescedent in the messages it sends. Lesser nuclear powers have less of a reason - in this set of circumstances - to play crazy (make their launch codes more democratically available or available to lower level commanders).
Russia had a long time to respond in this way to the U.S. missile program. We rattled it for quite some time.
I suspect they’re responding now because of the situation in Pakistan.
That’s speculation.
But still, it doesn’t hurt. If anything it gives Europe more incentive to involve themselves in U.S. affairs (they’re the one’s with the gun to their heads). Putins: “Listen to us or we’ll shoot those people” thing exposes the serious policy flaws in the missile shield (even if it did work technically perfectly): it doesn’t shield our allies/friends/other business interests.
It isn’t/wasn’t really worth the money - excepting that it’s forced - or rather, invited - Russia to adopt this posture.
Hopefully we’ll let go of world dominance, it’s too damned heavy a burden anyway - and it’s all downside for our public - private interests use the U.S. as the stalking horse to force policies to their advantage and politicians grab more power.
Really a corrosive situation.
This might lead to greater cooperation between Europe and Russia. Or it will lead to a schizm forcing cooperation between the former soviet states, either way, it will create blocs more able to stand up to U.S. dominance.
Again, speculation, but if we don’t have nuclear supremacy to fall back on, perhaps we’ll be less willing to engage conventionally on our own. I hope so.

I’m reminded of the old adage - almost any man can endure adversity, but the true test of character is to give a man power.
U.S. politicians are failing that test miserably, most particularly in foreign affairs.
No question something like this would happen, just a matter of when.
posted by Smedleyman at 1:29 PM on June 4, 2007


Eighties -- I ♥ you skygazer. I'm waiting for someone to bring this back in a real, unironic way...

I, for one, warmly welcome our thermonuclear overlords. Ever since that boogeyman got shoved back in the closet the best we could conjure up is the ever-present threat of unnamed terrorists polishing their axes in preparation for another 9/11 and its wonderful aftermath. By comparison, worldwide destruction and the end of life as we know it is a warm and shiny scary we can all go to bed knowing at least we wouldn't live through it...

Extra bonus: all those "we only have ten minutes before the missles land, darling" fantasies. W00t!
posted by Ogre Lawless at 1:49 PM on June 4, 2007


My fourth grade teacher told us she'd rather go up on the school roof and die instantly than live through a nuclear bomb attack.

FOURTH GRADE, people. She scarred us for life! That said, I like Ogre Lawless' plan.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 2:25 PM on June 4, 2007


One of the reasons that I'm pissed is that I'm forced to seriously consider leaving. And I really, really don't want to do it, but the way things are going leaves little alternative. The degree of stupidity is such that neither I nor anyone else can help, I'm afraid.

This puts me in mind of Ralph Nader in 2000, when asked about the possibility that in drawing votes away from Gore the election might more easily swing to Bush, answering that it didn't matter because they were both equally bad. Obviously, he was wrong. My point is that it is possible for a small number of people to matter - we don't need to give up, we need to do more. Will doing more matter in the long run? Quite possibly not, and definitely not in the short term. But I don't think it's nothing to have at least a few voices of reason among the ignorant, cocky rednecks.
posted by frobozz at 2:57 PM on June 4, 2007


Putins: “Listen to us or we’ll shoot those people” thing exposes the serious policy flaws in the missile shield (even if it did work technically perfectly): it doesn’t shield our allies/friends/other business interests.

See, I don't think he's saying that at all. I think he means exactly what he's saying. "If you're going to install a system that is made specifically to threaten us (russia), we have no choice but to take measures to counteract it." He's not so much threatening Poland to make US listen, as he's warning Poland itself. All of which makes me wonder, do Poles really think that just because they were allowed to join the big boy's club, someone actually will give a damn about them when the shit hits the fan? They had WWII as a lesson, was that not enough? What the hell are they thinking?
posted by c13 at 5:04 PM on June 4, 2007


neun und neunzig Luftballons
Auf ihrem Weg zum Horizont
Hielt man fuer UFOs aus dem All
Darum schickte ein General
Eine Fliegerstaffel hinterher
Alarm zu geben, wenn es so war
Dabei war da am Horizont
Nur neun und neunzig Luftballons

posted by Samuel Farrow at 7:11 PM on June 4, 2007


Damn you, Samuel Farrow.

*tries unsucessfully to shake earworm out of head*
posted by jokeefe at 8:39 PM on June 4, 2007


Oh if only they had listened to Patton way back when....this wouldn't even be an issue now. We need another Patton.
posted by GlowWyrm at 9:17 PM on June 4, 2007


Who will remember this on election day 08?
posted by crewshell at 10:38 PM on June 4, 2007


What the hell are they thinking?

Considering that the following are all on the table (or rather under it) for any given deal: actual dollars, loans, debt reduction, construction deals, services deals, direct trade, 3rd party trade, UN votes, UN vetoes, and pressure through non-governmental organizations dominated by the U.S. from ICAO to the WTO, I don't tend to spend a lot of time wondering why nations agree to do things that don't seem to be in their best interests.

My ears perk up when someone does something in their own interests. Then you know there's going to be trouble.
posted by dreamsign at 4:12 AM on June 5, 2007


all those "we only have ten minutes before the missles land, darling" fantasies.

indeed
posted by mr.marx at 6:41 AM on June 5, 2007


signal: Well, next time my personal finances, time, energy, efforts, and votes do not make the election go my way, I'll start handing out molotov cocktails. I expect you to be first in line.

c13: Believe me, I feel you, but so far all you've presented is venom and anger. Yes, believe me, I'm acutely aware of this administration's blunders over the past 7 years. I was vocal in my opposition to just about everything this clown has done. Yes, the Democratic and Republican partys is comprised largely spineless creatures of politick. What do you suggest? I mean, certainly your zingers, witticisms, and pithy easy-shots are just the thing to right the ship of state! I mean, seriously, being unreasonably castigatory does nothing to promote your message, and makes you come off like an angry, unreasonably kook whose message I want to ignore, even though I agree with it. The tone of national discourse is still shrill and accusatory enough, do you really want to buy into the same game?
posted by absalom at 7:29 AM on June 5, 2007


Russia has nothing to fear from missile defence, says Bush

Neither does the U.S.!
Now let's just defende Cuba with a few missiles... (heck, you've tried to overthrow that country. At least that would make sense)
posted by dreamsign at 8:45 AM on June 5, 2007


absalom: "signal: Well, next time my personal finances, time, energy, efforts, and votes do not make the election go my way, I'll start handing out molotov cocktails. I expect you to be first in line.

Actually, I was already "first in line" when we got rid of our tyrant. Not with molotov cocktails, as you fantasize about, but marching, handing out leaflets, being a courier for the election observers, etc. (I was only 17, so I couldn't vote at the time).
My "personal finances" weren't really a concern at the time, though. Wonder why you brought that up?
posted by signal at 10:55 AM on June 5, 2007


Signal: I brought it up meaning I gave money to preferred candidates.
posted by absalom at 12:16 PM on June 5, 2007


absalom: "...I gave money to preferred candidates."

And how's that working out for you?
posted by signal at 12:52 PM on June 5, 2007


Working out better than if I had stood on the corner handing out molotov cocktails, but not so well as I'd like.
posted by absalom at 1:42 PM on June 5, 2007


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