Crack Lung

June 23, 2008 1:47 AM

Amy Winehouse has Emphysema. The 24 year old artist, whose career has netted multiple awards but has often been overshadowed by her drug use, now faces a lung condition that can be slowed but never reversed, with effects ranging from shortness of breath to cyanosis and heart faliure.
posted by Artw (292 comments total)

Will they try to make her go to rehab?
posted by optovox at 1:52 AM on June 23 [6 favorites]

I thought about a rehab reference for the title, but then I said no, no, no.
posted by Artw at 1:56 AM on June 23 [55 favorites]

She has a great voice. Just a shame about the person it's attached to.
posted by slimepuppy at 1:59 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

Actually, her dad says she has emphysema, but that's it. Amy's a great singer and songwriter, who is brutal to her body.
posted by Joybooth at 2:04 AM on June 23

And here I thought she just had zero impulse control and multiple addictions.
posted by chuckdarwin at 2:20 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

Thanks heaps for the spoiler. Now I'll have to resort to reading about Brangelina's desire to adopt an alien baby in this week's gossip mags.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:48 AM on June 23

Her dad actually appealed to drug dealers to stop selling to her. Talk about the ultimate admission of total failure as a parent.
posted by allkindsoftime at 2:50 AM on June 23

Talk about the ultimate admission of total failure as a parent.
Seriously? I am embarrassed that I know this much about Amy Winehouse, but by all accounts, she was a normal, if slightly rebellious, teenager, and until fairly recently, she was of a healthy size and didn't appear in the gossip columns for smoking crack, etc. Whatever she has going on now is likely a manifestation of some kind of mental illness which has nothing to do with the way she was raised. I think the fact that her dad is doing everything in his power to help his daughter (which, since she is a legal adult with a shitload of her own money, isn't much) speaks to the fact that he is, actually, a great parent.
posted by cilantro at 3:04 AM on June 23 [52 favorites]

I'm sure he'd welcome your suggestions about how you stop your adult daughter fucking up her life, allkindsoftime. Feel free to provide them.

Hell, there are probably a few parents reading mefi right now with adult offspring who are determined to do dumb, self-destructive stuff. I'm sure they'd welcome your simple steps to get them to cut that shit out.
posted by rodgerd at 3:10 AM on June 23 [7 favorites]

Is this where we all make ourselves feel righteous and superior by mocking troubled people?
posted by srboisvert at 3:11 AM on June 23 [9 favorites]

MetaFilter: mocking troubled people

I'd say that's a yes.
posted by bwg at 3:14 AM on June 23

HA HA!
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:20 AM on June 23

Whilst I'm no big fan of Winehouse, I get sick of hearing all this shit about her. She's a talented musician, and a nutcase. She's also rich. Of course she's into drugs. Did the News of the World et al. write spiteful gossip like this in the days of the Stones or the Beatles?

Fame, eh? It's a killer disease.
posted by Acey at 3:23 AM on June 23

Does this make anyone else sad? I've had a feeling for a while that if she doesn't get the right kind of help she's going to kill herself. I get no pleasure watching someone self-destruct so dramatically with paparazzi cameras documenting every painful moment, and every other blog and message board laughing at how horrible she looks.
posted by louche mustachio at 3:25 AM on June 23 [4 favorites]

Her dad actually appealed to drug dealers to stop selling to her.

A full-grown woman with money, determination, and an intercontinental career is not even going to be around for her father to do anything but try to phone. Asking the dealers to lay off is ludicrous (because where would dealers be if they started caring about who they hurt?), but I can't blame him for trying. He might have had better luck trying her handlers and friends, but they also don't own her, don't have much motivation to aggravate her, and can't stop her from doing whatever the fuck she wants to do. All you can do to save determined addicts is get them convicted or declared incompetent and then throw them into a place where it's hard to get what's killing them. Of course, then maybe something or someone else will kill them.
posted by pracowity at 3:36 AM on June 23

cilantro writes 'Whatever she has going on now is likely a manifestation of some kind of mental illness'

More like a manifestation of Blake Fielder-Civil.
posted by jack_mo at 3:38 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

Louche, yes, it makes me sad too. She was a beautiful and extraordinarily talented young lady who could have had an amazing future ahead of her. With her fame and riches, she's sadly turned into something else, something sad, and if I can say this without sounding judgmental, something ugly. I really hope she hasn't reached a dead end, and that there's still hope for her to turn around.
posted by premiumpolar at 3:46 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

Not judging the guy about his talented and screwed up adult child (if we believe that people can rise above an awful upbringing due to their character, the opposite is likely to apply) but where is the good, or even the neutral, in him making himself the story by blabbing this to the press? It seems unclassy and ghoulish somehow, since there is nothing to be done about it and disclosing an illness seems like one of those things you let the afflicted party do, or not do as they wish to. It's Amy Winehouse; the odds that she was never going to explain the hospital thing without her dad helpfully filling in the blanks are very slim.

It seems like there has been some nontrivial increase over the last few years of parents of freaking-out stars who have journo phone numbers on speeddial.
posted by Your Time Machine Sucks at 3:46 AM on June 23

She has a great voice. Just a shame about the person it's attached to.

That voice would be nothing special without the person to which it is attached. It's the price some performers pay to reach their fans.

Rock on Amy. Don't listen to the squares.
posted by three blind mice at 3:47 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

Rock on Amy.

Indeed.
posted by fire&wings at 4:01 AM on June 23

That voice would be nothing special without the person to which it is attached.

Well she's got a great voice full stop... but the 'heart', the core of herself as an artist, what makes her a great star comes from what's inside. Unfortunately that also leads to self-destructive behavior. Yeah, I feel sad for Amy because in what seems to now be a world of utterly over-produced plastic singers she seemed like a throwback to better time.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:14 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

HA HA!

Congratulations on an absolutely vile and witless comment. Your compassion for your fellow creatures is obviously without bounds.

Does this make anyone else sad?

Yes, it does. This is a talented and troubled person who is doing herself a deal of damage. I hope she can pull herself back from the edge.
posted by Wolof at 4:25 AM on June 23

Maybe it says more about me than I want to consider, but I'd always assumed that drug dealers would consider it something of a prize to be known as "the dealer who provided XXXs fatal high".

Telling dealers to back off is never going to happen. She's rich, she's desperate and now she's going to be in physical and mental pain. They can demand pretty much any price they want...
posted by twine42 at 4:26 AM on June 23

Baby smoke with me
And tell me what you see
You're not gonna see the best of me yet
Given time I'll fall behind all the rest

I got more crack in me
As the whole world can see
I can catch the pipe in my hands
Wait, what I forgotten who I am

Remember my shame
Fame

I'm gonna live not much longer
I've really learned how to fly
High
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:31 AM on June 23

You people have hilarious fantasies about dealers. I thought more of you were... experienced.
posted by CautionToTheWind at 4:31 AM on June 23

Wait wait wait--a up and coming musical entertainer has turned to drugs??
posted by DU at 4:33 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

Did the News of the World et al. write spiteful gossip like this in the days of the Stones or the Beatles?

Pretty much, yeah. Remember Marianne Faithfull and the Mystery of the Hidden Mars Bar?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:33 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

So how does she get emphysema when as far as I know lots of addicts do not, at least at that age?
posted by konolia at 4:36 AM on June 23

As to drug use clips, this one is really sad, with the combination of destroyed judgement, enslavement, and career damage.
posted by StickyCarpet at 4:37 AM on June 23

This is terrible news. Emphysema is a horrible thing to live with, and an awful way to die. I would never have thought someone so young could get it.
posted by orange swan at 4:42 AM on June 23

Konolia :

Other less common causes of emphysema include:
* Intravenous drug use in which some of the non-drug additives like corn starch can be toxic to lung tissue
* Immune deficiencies in which infections like Pneumocystis carinii can cause inflammatory changes in the lung
posted by Dave Faris at 4:42 AM on June 23

I can't find the particular promotional photo I was after, but the bottom one on this BBC story, showing Amy during 2003 or 2004 does almost as well. Sad face.
posted by nthdegx at 4:45 AM on June 23

She's 24 and she's had FAME!!! land on her like a ten-ton weight. Acting up and going a bit crazy is part of the package.

I've had a very small dose of fame, and it reached me around the time I turned 40. I can usually go out in public without being recognized and accosted by total strangers (although it happens, from time to time). I'm probably two or three orders of magnitude more obscure than Amy Winehouse, and I've had an extra two decades on her to figure out who I am and to get myself grounded. Even so? It fucks your head up. And I can just barely begin to imagine the pressure she's been under for the past few years. (Those of you taking cheap pot-shots at her or criticizing her appearances should pause for a moment to think: how would I feel if total strangers felt that my body was public property and a fit subject for their judgement? Be ashamed; be very ashamed!)

Self-medication is one way of dealing with intolerable social pressure, and blocking out the sight of all those distorting mirrors reflecting her own face back at her the whole time is probably one of her priorities. To the extent that Amy Winehouse has a drugs problem that the media is focussing on, it's one that the media has created by applying pressure to a vulnerable personality.

Partial solution: strict privacy laws (and shoot the record industry marketing and publicity types who let the tabloids get in her face in the first place, before they kill any more talented 18 year olds).
posted by cstross at 4:47 AM on June 23 [33 favorites]

Is it just me or is this site, which can't even spell "exclusive" properly, uses ALL CAPS in an article, and references the subject being rushed to the hospital after "a fit", not really the kind of reliable source that makes a good FPP?
posted by loiseau at 4:51 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

When I saw that one recent picture of her where she looks like a scab encrusted 600 year old Grimm's tale crone I was like, "What the fuck is she snorting now? Botulism?"
posted by The Straightener at 4:53 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

Talk about the ultimate admission of total failure as a parent.

Something tells me that you actually don't have any kids, allkindsoftime. Or maybe you just sprang from your mothers womb, fully formed, as a conscentious, law-abiding, middle-of-the-road, conservative adult?

For the rest of us, though, there's the problem of agency. Kids don't always do what their parents want them to do -- and sometimes, that's actually not their parents fault. Again, I know that this is a notion many Americans struggle with. If everything isn't absolutely perfect, then somebody has to be to blame, because you need to find somebody to sue.

In the real world though, you get situations where everyone tries their hardest, everyone does their best, and people and things just repeatedly fuck up. And there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Now, I've no idea about the extent to which Winehouse's parents have any culpability with regard to her problems, but from what I've seen of father and daughter, they appear to have a very close, loving relationship. While disapproving of her behaviour, he's kept the lines of communication open, and is encouraging her to change wherever possible. He seems to be the furthest thing imaginable from the vile parents of people like Lindsay Lohan and Brittney Spears who have regarded their kids as property to be exploited in sickness or in health.

But I appreciate that this kind of approach to one's children isn't that well regarded in the USA, where Tough Love seems to be the recommended strategy when dealing with children who screw up. Well, here's a clue: cutting off your children's allowance doesn't work that well when they're a multi-millionaire, and packing them off to boot camp really isn't feasible when your kid happens to be a rich and married 24 year old adult.

Outside the USA, there comes a point when we expect our children to stand on their own two feet and be responsible for their own screw ups. The age tends to vary somewhat, but I don't think anywhere still considers 24 a kid.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:59 AM on June 23 [9 favorites]

Maybe it says more about me than I want to consider, but I'd always assumed that drug dealers would consider it something of a prize to be known as "the dealer who provided XXXs fatal high".

What the hell? I don't think the average "Drug Dealer" is interested in their client base. The ones selling hard-core stuff are probably users themselves and have deluded themselves into thinking the stuff isn't that harmful, or that their users can handle it -- or they're higher ups who never deal with street junkies.

It's the same as Oil companies who have convinced themselves that global warming doesn't exist, or whatever. Once money is involved in something, it becomes difficult to think about the downsides of things rationally.
posted by delmoi at 5:07 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

All you can do to save determined addicts is get them convicted or declared incompetent

Determined being the key word here. She isn't going to get help voluntarily until she wants it. In some cases, health awakenings are enough to trip that desire to get off the merry-go-round. Let's hope that's the case with her. Sad? Yes, indeed.
posted by netbros at 5:08 AM on June 23

I think there's a bunch of celebrities that manage not to get fucked up by fame & a larger number of ignored people who manage to get fucked up without being at all famous, so I call bullshit on the "price of celebrity" argument.

She got in with a bad crowd & had enough money to really damage herself, so that's what she did. I feel sorry for her family and to a smaller degree I feel sorry for her, but I refuse to accept that this is any different to the woman who used to sit by the door of our local KFC asking for money to fuel her drug and alcohol addictions.

Talent be damned. That whole "sensitive but genius artist who can't help themselves because they feel things more than mere mortals" argument is a damaging piece of self-perpetuating mythology that does more harm than good.
posted by seanyboy at 5:10 AM on June 23 [16 favorites]

Yeah, I feel sad for Amy because in what seems to now be a world of utterly over-produced plastic singers she seemed like a throwback to better time.

Honestly, I do and I don't. I feel sorry for the person, but as an artist she's such a huge breath of fresh air that I'd hate to see her get cleaned up.

cstross, I think blaming the media is going a bit far. I've never been famous, but I know a thing or two about self medication. Certainly "the media" can fan the flames, but there are lots of ways to get the fire started that have nothing to do with photographers.
posted by three blind mice at 5:12 AM on June 23

there are plenty of other new bright young things out there that dont turn to drugs and are the same age. no sympathy for her what so ever, all she's good for is propping up sales figures of trash mags and tabloids.
posted by monkeyJuice at 5:15 AM on June 23

I was going with alpha 1 antitrypsin deficiency. Emphysema and liver disease in the young. Didn't know crack cocaine could do that so quickly.
posted by gramcracker at 5:20 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

Severe drug users can become immunocompromised, and I'm guessing that this is what happened in her case. She had impetigo within the past year, and I'd wager that the emphysema is the result of a respiratory infection, exacerbated by the smoking.

I love her voice and I feel sad for her, but I find her very tough to look at. She looks like she could drop dead at any moment.
posted by emd3737 at 6:03 AM on June 23

there are plenty of other new bright young things out there that dont turn to drugs and are the same age. no sympathy for her what so ever, all she's good for is propping up sales figures of trash mags and tabloids.

This is disgusting. "Turning" to drugs? Really? As though this is an active choice she makes every time she uses? Addiction is a serious behavioral problem and not a choice. You may as well be saying that bipolar people are making a choice to max out their credit cards when they have a manic episode. Did you know? Depressed people can just choose to stop being depressed.

I'm 23 and I'd say that 24 years old is still "a kid" as in, you're allowed to make mistakes and they shouldn't have to haunt you for the rest of your life.
posted by giraffe at 6:14 AM on June 23 [6 favorites]

Maybe it says more about me than I want to consider, but I'd always assumed that drug dealers would consider it something of a prize to be known as "the dealer who provided XXXs fatal high"

No-one in the service industry want's to kill their clients before getting maximum return at the very least. Seeing as how Amy Winehouse probably pays good money and a lot of it, I really think killing her would not be any sort of prize!

All this bollocks about the drugs, if it wasn't crack she would probably be killing herself with booze, tortured artists and all that. Sad but hardly unpredictable.
posted by twistedonion at 6:15 AM on June 23

I feel sad for Amy because in what seems to now be a world of utterly over-produced plastic singers she seemed like a throwback to better time.

I loved her first album. She's a very engaging singer and it's a damn shame she's bent on becoming a 21st century Janis Joplin, but, really, she's not the only talented and engaging singer out there. The notion that she's a star, some kind of a singular figure, instead of just a talented person with a job to do is a little part of the problem here.

as an artist she's such a huge breath of fresh air that I'd hate to see her get cleaned up.

Untrue and gross.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:17 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

If true, this is really sad. I love her voice and her music, and if this ends her career the world will be poorer for it.

There have been a lot of artists whose musical gifts seem to be difficult to separate from their substance abuse problems (Johnny Cash is the first who comes to mind for me, but it is actually a really long and sad list) -- something about self-medicating both with the performance and the substance. And then you get the copy cats, who turn it around and figure that the way to be as awesome as their favorite dead singer is to develop the same bad habits.

There was a really good article about Britney a couple of months ago, focusing on the role the hangers-on and the handlers play when a star starts to have mental and substance problems. A regular person, who lacks that huge array of enablers, would hit bottom and end up broke and in a detox center pretty fast, but when there is an army of people focused on getting you up on stage, regardless of what it takes to get you there, these problems can become really extreme before someone hits bottom.
posted by Forktine at 6:25 AM on June 23

I pretty much think that if you're cracking on a troubled person who is doing no (direct) harm to anyone but herself (I mean, I feel sorry for her dad and all), largely because they're there and you can do it and it'll make you feel better about your own pathetic life for a second or two, fuck you, and you're a douchebag. So. You know. Now you know. Asshole.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:26 AM on June 23 [5 favorites]

Amy, Amy, Amy. This makes me very sad. I hope this will be enough to make her realize that she needs serious help, but I'm not convinced it will be.

Forktine, I would love to read that article if you can dig it up.
posted by fiercecupcake at 6:38 AM on June 23

I have never heard an Amy Winehouse song, somehow, so I know her only from tabloid updates.

Recommendations (links?) from the assembled gallery?
posted by rokusan at 6:40 AM on June 23

I'm 23 and I'd say that 24 years old is still "a kid" as in, you're allowed to make mistakes and they shouldn't have to haunt you for the rest of your life.

Of course, it changes your perspective if, at age 23 or 24, the rest of your life is maybe another six months.
posted by StandardObfuscatingProcedure at 6:45 AM on June 23

"Hey I got talent and money, now let me piss it away with a crappy husband and drug use. Oh yea and I got emphysema, feel bad for me."

Sorry Miss Winehouse, if you changed your ways and learned from your mistakes, then maybe I would. But no. I really don't care.
posted by dasheekeejones at 6:48 AM on June 23

Boy, if crackheads could just learn from their mistakes.
posted by phaedon at 6:55 AM on June 23

I thought she was going to pop those little rat babies into her giant gaping maw at any second. I could barely finish the video, but did out of morbid curiosity.

Anyway, it's a shame.
posted by self at 7:07 AM on June 23

Here is the Britney article I was remembering; there are some similarities in the out-of-control downward spirals, though there couldn't be more difference in the talents of the artists in question. (Well, that's not fair -- Britney's not untalented, but her talent has never been focused by any artistic temperament or clear sense of aesthetics.)
posted by Forktine at 7:10 AM on June 23

Recommendations (links?) from the assembled gallery?

This is a personal favorite.

Also, I'm pretty sure Amy Winehouse never asked anyone to feel bad for her. Can someone quote an interview or something saying otherwise?
posted by giraffe at 7:16 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

Does this make anyone else sad? I've had a feeling for a while that if she doesn't get the right kind of help she's going to kill herself. I get no pleasure watching someone self-destruct so dramatically with paparazzi cameras documenting every painful moment, and every other blog and message board laughing at how horrible she looks.

Agreed. I generally skip right past news about her; it's just too sad.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:20 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

I think that she, maybe more than any other musician, is obsessed with the 27 club mythology. Others have certainly gone out of their way to die young, but who else has created an entire identity out of dying young?
posted by roll truck roll at 7:22 AM on June 23

Wait a second... this is from the Sunday Mirror. I thought that the Sunday editions of respected UK papers were basically no better than the US's Weekly World News--printing dubious articles that report secondhand information from anonymous or mistaken sources in a way that helps them avoid being sued for libel. UK MeFites, what's the real scoop?
posted by infinitewindow at 7:24 AM on June 23

YTMS"where is the good, or even the neutral, in him making himself the story by blabbing this to the press?"

Well, this is a way of creating a public outcry. This outcry may in turn create pressure on her music labels to "protect" her (or, more likely their investment). This may lead to them forcing her into rehab and therapy.

It's not too much of stretch to see things turning out this way. Whether or not it all works out in the end is, of course, another question entirely.
posted by oddman at 7:28 AM on June 23

An unsurprising amount of people ignorantly pontificating about problems they've never had and will never understand.

Rokusan, here's a nice little Amy moment
posted by merocet at 7:35 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

Giraffe: "I'm 23 and I'd say that 24 years old is still "a kid" as in, you're allowed to make mistakes and they shouldn't have to haunt you for the rest of your life."

As a general principle I mostly agree with your conclusions: mistakes shouldn't haunt your forever. But this has nothing to do with being a kid or not.

Also, you're 23, you've had time finish a Bachelor's degree (or an MA if you're industrious) and start your career. You're not a kid anymore. Face it. You may not want the responsibilities and lifestyle of an adult (or more accurately you don't want the responsibilities and lifestyle of a stereotypical, cliched understanding of adulthood), but that doesn't make you any less of an adult. You're not a kid, your are an adult that wants to abdicate as much responsibility as possible.
posted by oddman at 7:35 AM on June 23 [5 favorites]

if you're cracking on a troubled person

There's nothing special about a drug addict troubled person that should render them safe from being cracked on, especially when it's a self destructive junkie troubled person who is pissing away a life and talent that many would kill for. Sympathy can only go far when a person is refusing to any help and their own parents are reduced to asking drug dealers not to sell to her. I would hope she cleans up and continues making good music for a long time, but if she continues fucking up then the only sympathy I got is for the other talented musicians who never got her the big break.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:37 AM on June 23

"...pissing away a life and talent that many would kill for."

Apparently she'd kill for it too - she just won't kill anyone else.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:41 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

cstross, I don't doubt that being famous is a freaky experience, but as three blind mice points out, chronic chemical abusers will always find an excuse to self medicate. The cartoonist John Callahan drew a strip once where he was in group therapy with fellow alcoholics who were presenting their "reasons" for drinking: "I drank because I had the nickname 'Corky'!" "I drank because my shoes were too tight!" "I drank because I have a machine on my back that forces me to drink!"

That's not to say that her handlers or the press or whomever haven't been assholes, because, pretty clearly, they have. But it's not helping to suggest that it's their fault; after all, they're not the ones who wrote and recorded "Rehab."
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:42 AM on June 23

Brandon Blatcher: I posit that there is a middle ground between mockery and sympathy that is probably most appropriate here. You don't have to sympathize with Amy Winehouse or feel bad for her, per se, but drug addiction is an insidious, horrible problem that doesn't really deserve mockery.

I'm sitting here, and not really thinking, "oh that poor woman," but at the same time, not really thinking, "wow, how stupid." Mostly it's just, "how unfortunate," and "is there perhaps a way to either not need to document her downfall, or at least not sensationalize it?"
posted by explosion at 7:56 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

Brandon Blatcher: I posit that there is a middle ground between mockery and sympathy that is probably most appropriate here. You don't have to sympathize with Amy Winehouse or feel bad for her, per se, but drug addiction is an insidious, horrible problem that doesn't really deserve mockery.

That's pretty much what I was about to say, too. I'm not trying to argue that we should all light candles for Amy Winehouse; I'm just saying that the degree to which some people take evident glee in how fucked up she is says a lot more about them and how they feel about their own no doubt shitty lives than it does about her.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:05 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

I dont understand all the "talented" comments about her. At best she's a forgettable one-hit wonder. Without her producers and handlers and backup musicians (who arent total wrecks) something tells me she'd still be busking.

Shame all of this, but we're not losing a Jimi Hendrix here. We're losing a Toni Basil here.
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:25 AM on June 23 [13 favorites]

I posit that there is a middle ground between mockery and sympathy that is probably most appropriate here

I can agree with that. Drug addiction is horrible but it doesn't mean the person isn't human.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:26 AM on June 23

You're not a kid, your are an adult that wants to abdicate as much responsibility as possible.

That is rude as all hell and you don't even know me. You are basing this on a single statement I made on the Internet. Well, I guess that's par for the course, eh? For the record, I was vaguely responding to the statement that no one considers 24 to be "a kid". If you or someone you love magically transformed into a responsible adult at the age of 18, then I apologize for my sweeping generalization. I, however, still make mistakes because I'm young. Hopefully by the time I turn 50 I will understand protocol for renting a car, picking a good insurance plan or starting a 401K.

You can't judge Amy Winehouse for the choices she makes and you don't know if she's a responsible person. Just because she uses drugs doesn't mean she's incapable of paying her rent on time or putting money into a savings account. There's a huge difference between making a mistake and owning up to it vs. doing whatever the hell you want with impunity. People make mistakes so they can learn. I certainly don't want to be done learning by the time I'm 24. And I certainly don't want to judge people younger than me just because I've lived longer (or "better") than them.

You can feel free to make arguments re: maturity vs. age and I will politely disagree with you. Personal attacks in my direction that are completely unrelated to Amy Winehouse make you a jerk with an agenda.
posted by giraffe at 8:30 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

Without her producers and handlers and backup musicians (who arent total wrecks) something tells me she'd still be busking.

You could say that about ANY artist. Becoming successful requires not only talent and working hard, but also considerable luck. At least she wasn't a carefully-concocted, dolled up and digitally enhanced "singer" like so many other "talents" out there.

Shame all of this, but we're not losing a Jimi Hendrix here. We're losing a Toni Basil here.

In a time in which we're being force-fed Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera and Joss Stone, Amy Winehouse was a real breath of fresh air.

Seriously, who's out there right now? Cher or Madonna making yet another "come back" album? A hope that Hilary Duff or Miley Cyrus will someday make music that appeals to people over 12?

So no, maybe we're not losing a Jimi Hendrix here, but Jimi's pretty much legendary. It's not even a fair comparison.
posted by explosion at 8:46 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

You can't judge Amy Winehouse for the choices she makes and you don't know if she's a responsible person. Just because she uses drugs doesn't mean she's incapable of paying her rent on time or putting money into a savings account.

This is strange. The only thing you can judge people on are their actions. And it is fair to judge her poorly for her abuse of drugs and alcohol that led to her present medical condition. And it's that abuse in the face of advice telling her that she'd end up in precisely this situation that establishes her as an irresponsible person. The fact that she paid her rent and saved money are irrelevant. Almost everyone does those things, it isn't an accomplishment.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:47 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

As an artist I think she's pretty limited and her hype far outweighs her talent. I really do believe that her career has been greatly helped by her reckless lifestyle and sad antics. Most people would have stopped talking about her as her single slipped into the world "oh I used to like that song - what was her name?", but by staying in the press she's stayed current in people's minds.

It's sad when anybody gets seriously ill, but her being in bad health doesn't make me forgot how much I don't like her as a musician or pop culture train wreck. I've never wished ill on her, I've just wished that she'd just go away.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 8:47 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

Soul Music is a tough gig. She shoulda been in contact with Keith Richards from the beginning. He woulda told her about Blues and Dues. Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Billie Holliday. Trying to hold magic in your hands can kill you. And she's kind of an asshole anyway. Much better people fall than her.
I'm not sad and I'm not surprised.
posted by Flex1970 at 8:50 AM on June 23

Emphysema is a prison. You're tied to an oxygen bottle and eventually suffocate to death. Peace on you, Amy.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:54 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

When someone this young gets this sick and may possibly die it's the promise of what could have been that's lost. The girl has the gift and might have been able to develop it if not for her sickness. It's fucking tragic is what it is.
posted by hojoki at 8:57 AM on June 23

Recommendations (links?) from the assembled gallery?

I'm partial to this video of her singing Love is a Losing Game. Particularly poignant, if you know even a little bit about her and "her Blake".
posted by hellopanda at 9:00 AM on June 23

Whatever she has going on now is likely a manifestation of some kind of mental illness

I did read an interview where she talked about being bi-polar and refusing to medicate it.

And god I hate Generation Y. So glad my family decided to just skip it and my next youngest relative is 11. Maybe by the time she hits 23 self-righteous whining won't be in fashion anymore.
posted by fshgrl at 9:02 AM on June 23

I've said my opinions on Amy Winehouse, her talent, and her demons previously. Won't add more.
Just makes me sad. Period.

.
posted by miss lynnster at 9:05 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

In a time in which we're being force-fed Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera and Joss Stone, Amy Winehouse was a real breath of fresh air.

Why? What has she done that shows anymore depth than the rest of the pop stars? She has a skilled vocal range perhaps, but so do the finalists on American Idol. Why does jazz, the style with the most consistently empty lyrics that almost never moves past personal relationships and troubles, get put on a pedestal?

This is a musician we're talking about here. Rather than contribute something to the social good, she chose a career path of aggression and achieved money and fame. Unlike the Britney Spears types who seem to have largely been forced into that lifestyle by idiot parents, she willfully took this path (so far as I know, I'll accept that I haven't studied her backstory and could be wrong here). I don't in any way wish harm on anyone, but certainly find it a little irksome when loads of sympathy are fed to people who reaped the rewards in life undeservedly when so many unrewarded innocents suffer on and on.
posted by kigpig at 9:15 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

Amy Winehouse on David Letterman, singing Rehab. And she's no one-hit-wonder; just listen to the entire first cd. She's got a great voice, great phrasing, and she writes great songs, and seems to love singing. I wish she'd get whatever help she needs to have this not be the end of her.
posted by tula at 9:16 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

I read a pretty good essay in Time Magazine a few months back that pointed out how the difference between Amy Winehouse and, say, Britney Spears is in their art; with Britney, the mental illness and addiction has no connection to the bland manufactured music and dancing, but Amy actually takes her issues and channels them into her songwriting, much in the same way that Curt Cobain did. I think that's a pretty valid point. She is an artist, for all her troubles, so her troubles are more poignant than the schadenfreude that goes along with the Britney Spears circus.
posted by infinitywaltz at 9:19 AM on June 23 [5 favorites]

In a time in which we're being force-fed Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera and Joss Stone, Amy Winehouse was a real breath of fresh air.

..which she maybe should've been breathing AHAHAHA!

*smokes* *coughs*
posted by jonmc at 9:19 AM on June 23

I feel bad for what ever demons are haunting her...

...on the other hand I also know that she has received more opportunities to change her life than most in the world ever will.

As for a contrast to other artists, say what you will about Christina Agulera, she is a very talented singer. Probably a better singing talent than Amy IMHO, but she doesn't represent the "rebellion" that people want to see.
posted by ozomatli at 9:24 AM on June 23

say what you will about Christina Agulera, she is a very talented singer

I always wanted Christina to sing a cover of 'I'm Nobody's Baby Now" with full orchestral/band backing-no dancepop synths. It would've been amazing.
posted by jonmc at 9:26 AM on June 23

What has she done that shows anymore depth than the rest of the pop stars?

Well, if nothing else, kigpig, unlike Britney, Pink, Jessica Simpson, or Christine Aguilera, to name a few, Amy Winhouse doesn't seem to intentionally cultivate the "slut" persona.
posted by Dave Faris at 9:26 AM on June 23

I always wanted Christina to sing a cover of 'I'm Nobody's Baby Now" with full orchestral/band backing-no dancepop synths. It would've been amazing.
posted by jonmc at 11:26 AM on June 23 [+] [!]

A-men. Has she done an "unplugged" type album?
posted by ozomatli at 9:31 AM on June 23

No she'll sound even more stupid every time I hear "Rehab."
posted by dopamine at 9:35 AM on June 23

WHO IS AMY WINEHOUSE?
posted by quonsar at 9:37 AM on June 23 [5 favorites]

I've already made a comment on this post in musical form (don't wish to self link, it's in my profile under Music), but let me just say she's gotten a lot of people into old school soul music, which is a Good Thing. Don't see it as a pop star thing, see it as a ravaged by the awesome power and melancholy of the blues thing, c.f. Billie Holiday and Janis Joplin.
posted by By The Grace of God at 9:38 AM on June 23

I'm 23 and I'd say that 24 years old is still "a kid" as in, you're allowed to make mistakes and they shouldn't have to haunt you for the rest of your life.
posted by giraffe

You're allowed to make mistakes at 23, 33, 53, but you pay for them at any age. That doesn't make you a kid.

What a naive thing to say.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 9:38 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

Yes, but when you're 23, you don't know enough to know that yet.
posted by Dave Faris at 9:40 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

Rather than contribute something to the social good, she chose a career path of aggression and achieved money and fame.

Music does contribute to the social good. She, through her music, has probably positively influenced more people than I ever will in my entire life.
posted by slimepuppy at 9:42 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

Agreed, slimepuppy. The entire United Kingdom should thank her for infesting the top 40 stations with decent music instead of the utter shite that would be there in a Winehouse free world.
posted by By The Grace of God at 9:44 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

This is strange. The only thing you can judge people on are their actions. And it is fair to judge her poorly for her abuse of drugs and alcohol that led to her present medical condition. And it's that abuse in the face of advice telling her that she'd end up in precisely this situation that establishes her as an irresponsible person.

I'm okay with saying that it's generally irresponsible to use drugs. However, I don't think it's fair to hold an addict accountable for his or her actions like continuing to use instead of getting clean (yes, there should be legal ramifications to related activities like stealing, because you're harming someone other than yourself, but jailing seems really unproductive to me). "If you keep using, you are going to kill yourself," doesn't mean much when you're an addict. Everyone already knows that overuse of drugs gets people killed.

If people were able to do the responsible thing and stopped using drugs just because they were told of the consequences, then there would only be a handful of people struggling with addiction problems. Unfortunately, addiction is really sinister. Most people don't have a life-changing moment that helps them "snap out" of it or "see the light." I could've sworn that it was recently discovered that part of the recovery process can include "falling off the wagon" a couple times before truly getting clean. This really makes me believe that addiction isn't just a personality flaw, because people who get on the wagon in the first place must want to kick their addictions, and then something happens along the way to ruin their progress.

Of course this opens a whole argument regarding whether addiction is a choice or not, because people are supposed to know if they have addictive personalities (??), or they should be smart enough to stay away from drugs (and what about people who are addicted to "legal" drugs? Or gambling? Or sex?). Do we judge Stevie Nicks less harshly because she was addicted to painkillers her doctor prescribed instead of crack?

I just can't believe that addiction is a choice, so that's why I can't judge someone negatively for being an addict. I like to think that the human spirit is significantly stronger than addiction, but that doesn't seem to be the case all the time. It's not irresponsible. It's just sad.

(Everyone poke holes in my argument now, because I just made myself depressed. Sigh.)
posted by giraffe at 9:46 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

This is what happens when a crackhead doesn't run out of money. It's been obvious amy winehouse was going to die for awhile.
posted by Tlogmer at 9:47 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

"Shame all of this, but we're not losing a Jimi Hendrix here. We're losing a Toni Basil here."

or, we're losing a human being. the lesson from all this shouldn't be that a(nother) talented singer is going down the toilet and it's a shame. the lesson is that, for whatever reason people of all colours, creeds and classes get into drugs, and when they're ready to get out, they need help, not to be judged by a bunch of callous assholes and consigned to the trash heap of history.

having known more than my share of drug addicts and parents of drug addicts, i'm tempted to wish that agony on the people who haven't the imagination to put themselves in that place and try to feel some sympathy. i'm just not capable of that sort of cruelty.
posted by klanawa at 9:49 AM on June 23 [6 favorites]

It's interesting how, no matter what happens to Amy Winehouse, I still don't care.

No, wait - not interesting. The other thing.
posted by greenie2600 at 9:51 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

You're allowed to make mistakes at 23, 33, 53, but you pay for them at any age. That doesn't make you a kid.

You're arguing semantics. Perhaps a better choice of phrase would be "still allowed to do immature things if you actually learn from them." I didn't say "you're allowed to get hooked on crack when you're 24 but not when you're 54."
posted by giraffe at 9:52 AM on June 23

Perhaps a better choice of phrase would be "still allowed to do immature things if you actually learn from them."

Also works at 3, 13, 23, 33, 53, 73....

There's no magic age. Who's doing the "allowing", anyway?
posted by rokusan at 9:55 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

I dunno. Probably the same authority that tells kids they don't know shit.
posted by giraffe at 9:57 AM on June 23

giraffe said:
"I'm 23 and I'd say that 24 years old is still "a kid" as in, you're allowed to make mistakes and they shouldn't have to haunt you for the rest of your life."

"If wishes were horses...", and all that.

Reality doesn't care how old you are. It's up to people at whatever age they are to realise they are making mistakes and fix them or ask for help and act on said help or otherwise identify the problem and amend it.

Someone else videotaping you while you're having sex without your knowledge or permission because you left a curtain open? Minor mistake on your part that shouldn't impact you for the rest of your life, but probably will.

Being really talented, choosing to do drugs despite the volumes of information and warnings along with attempts at parental and legal intervention, ruining said talent with said behaviour, refusing to address clear mental health issues in order to be cool...

...as sad as it is, this is precisely the type of mistake that should haunt you the rest of your life, because even if it's too late for you, you can now be someone else's horrible warning.
posted by batmonkey at 10:03 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

For the vultures: Predict Amy's dead and win a iPod touch
posted by goo at 10:04 AM on June 23

You mean the "authority" that has given her emphysema, and her other health issues, after she played fast and lose with her own body, disregarding advice from many people, both near and far?
posted by Snyder at 10:07 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

It's up to people at whatever age they are to realise they are making mistakes and fix them or ask for help and act on said help or otherwise identify the problem and amend it.

That's why I kicked my 3-year-old out of the house for pooping his pants. Oh, sure, some folks said I was being harsh, but it's good to know that batmonkey agrees with my decision.
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:07 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

S'funny. We (culture wise) use to revere rock and rollers for this kind of lifestyle... now people point and laugh. Not sure if it is an improvement or not.
posted by edgeways at 10:15 AM on June 23

rokusan: Here's a good primer for Amy Winehouse:

Rehab
You Know I'm No Good
Back to Black
Fuck Me Pumps
Tears Dry on Their Own

I think that the stray suggestion that she somehow deserved it — because of her fame, her irresponsibility, or whatever reason — is distasteful at minimum.
posted by Weebot at 10:18 AM on June 23

Well, if nothing else, kigpig, unlike Britney, Pink, Jessica Simpson, or Christine Aguilera, to name a few, Amy Winhouse doesn't seem to intentionally cultivate the "slut" persona.

But that's because society considers what she does as soulful and what they do as slutty. Behavioristically they each have their nuances but aren't all that different. And all are being physically provocative / appealing to some sex image or another. Hell Brittney was supposed to be the 'good girl' for some time and is in fact far from a slut from last I recall.

Music does contribute to the social good. She, through her music, has probably positively influenced more people than I ever will in my entire life.

influence does not equal good. What positive influence has her music had on anyone? What noble message is contained within? Unless, through her tragedy, it discourages others to follow her path...on preview it seems batmonkey has mentioned just that. But that's still not attributed to her music but her lifestyle. Otoh, music has plenty of negative influence since innately inscribed in its function is that beauty outweighs truth.
posted by kigpig at 10:21 AM on June 23

The other day I saw a commercial for "Duffy," singing in a style reminiscent of Winehouse and quoting reviews that made it seem like her UK-export style was completely unique. I thought "Wow. Universal Music is really hedging their bets with Winehouse being so self-destructive." It's a bit sadder with the knowledge that she is killing herself in a quite literal way.
posted by VulcanMike at 10:21 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

refusing to address clear mental health issues in order to be cool...

A lot of mentally ill people refuse to get treatment. It's because they're sick. Or because there's a huge stigma attached to being mentally ill. Or because you then have to admit that there is something wrong with you that you have no control over.
posted by giraffe at 10:27 AM on June 23

MrMoonPie:

What? How did you get that out of what I said? Gods, people baffle me in their insistence on being overly literal in order to cling to some bizarre personal point which has nothing to do with logical reality.

We learn lessons our entire lives. Accidents are not mistakes, although some accidents can be caused by mistakes.

If we didn't learn, we'd all still be crapping ourselves and smearing it on walls, eating bits of drek from the floor, and putting small metal objects into electrical outlets. We initially learn by someone identifying for us what we don't know and guiding us through the steps to overcome our lack of knowledge...if we're like the fortunate majority.

After a while, though, regardless of what our parents and guardians may or may not have taught us, we have to recognise our own gaps in knowledge and expectation and address them.
posted by batmonkey at 10:29 AM on June 23

Every man is a king, so long as he has someone to look down on. —Sinclair Lewis
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:31 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

On non-preview...

giraffe:
No shit.

Do they not teach reading comprehension and main idea in school anymore?
posted by batmonkey at 10:32 AM on June 23

influence does not equal good. What positive influence has her music had on anyone?

It convinced me not to go to rehab, for one.
posted by jonmc at 10:32 AM on June 23 [4 favorites]

You're arguing semantics. Perhaps a better choice of phrase would be "still allowed to do immature things if you actually learn from them." I didn't say "you're allowed to get hooked on crack when you're 24 but not when you're 54."

Allowed by whom, exactly? If you fuck up your health, that's going to haunt you regardless of how fair you think it is. Same thing at 16. If you were too ride a motorcycle without a helmet, and become paralyzed, there is no question about 'allowance', there is no one who gets to make a choice about it or forgive you. It's the same thing with damaging your body through whatever it is Amy Winehouse is doing. There is no one who can grant her a reprieve.

And speaking of 54 year olds, well, personally I don't see why they shouldn't get to take drugs, after all for many of them their health will already be shot or they'll only have 10-15 years of quality living ahead of them anyway. A little drug use won't be too much of an addition to the natural aging process, IMO.
posted by delmoi at 10:33 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

...her dad still drives a cab?
posted by Roman Graves at 10:33 AM on June 23

VulcanMike: I don't think Universal ever knew what to do with her. I remember seeing her at Coachella last year, right as she was hitting it big, and they had relegated her to the smallest stage there, which I'm sure didn't make the fire marshalls happy. I also recall a minor bruhaha about releasing / not-releasing her first album stateside.

Who can blame them, though? I wouldn't have ever thought that a pro-addiction motown throwback would become such a big hit.
posted by Weebot at 10:35 AM on June 23

I'd bet the underlying cause of her emphysema is also responsible for a lot of her odd and self-destructive behavior. You don't develop emphysema at 24 unless something big has gone really wrong, and that kind of thing can really change your personality.

I wonder if the emphysema could be a manifestation of lupus.
posted by jamjam at 10:35 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

After a while, though, regardless of what our parents and guardians may or may not have taught us, we have to recognise our own gaps in knowledge and expectation and address them.

How long is "after a while" then?

Do they not teach reading comprehension and main idea in school anymore?

Well, they certainly didn't teach manners when you were in school.

Do you really think Amy Winehouse is refusing to treat her mental issues to be "cool"?
posted by giraffe at 10:37 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

...her dad still drives a cab?

she's got a crazy old lady name o' Cocaine Katy who embroiders on her jeans/she got her poor old gray-haired daddy, drivin' her limousine...
posted by jonmc at 10:43 AM on June 23

What has she done that shows anymore depth than the rest of the pop stars?

She writes her own songs.
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:43 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

Do you really think Amy Winehouse is refusing to treat her mental issues to be "cool"?

I don't know if it's that simple. Maybe we're all just sick of inconsequential artsists who develop problems and get them cured by rehab/Jesus/Krishna/the Chicago Bears and then hang around forever pumping out self-enthused bland pap. It's kind of refreshing to see a star who's honestly commited to self-destruction.
posted by jonmc at 10:45 AM on June 23

In a time in which we're being force-fed Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera and Joss Stone, Amy Winehouse was a real breath of fresh air.

Sigh.... I suppose it's true but, while her music is perfectly OK, I would never put it on - I do like that classic 50-60s R&B but there is so much amazing material from back in the day, much of which has the additional romance of being history.

It makes me sad almost every day that few if any of the "music stars" of our day are famous for their musicianship; that Amy Winehouse is our best and brightest.

That said, it's very sad, what happened to her. She didn't end up with that voice without a ton of practice as well as talent; I hope she gets better, very soon.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:48 AM on June 23

Roman Graves: "...her dad still drives a cab?"

I'm not sure I understand the question. Fathers of pop stars shouldn't drive taxis? She should be supporting him? What else should he be doing?
posted by octothorpe at 10:55 AM on June 23

She writes her own songs.

She does? Token credits (and hence royalties) given as a sweetener to make her sign with Island, if anything.

As for her beloved Blake, he's a trustafarian thug with idiot friends.
posted by tapeguy at 11:01 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

She writes her own songs.

I could swear that Christina Aguilera does too. But then again, not writing their own songs actually gives an artist an excuse for banality...
posted by kigpig at 11:01 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

The 'writes their own songs' thing is a dopey-assed litmus test for quality. Plenty of great singers (Sinatra, Joe Cocker, Aretha Franklin) did not write their own material.
posted by jonmc at 11:08 AM on June 23 [5 favorites]

Madonna writes her own songs, which makes the lyrics the worst thing about them since she outsourcs everything else brilliantly.
posted by Artw at 11:09 AM on June 23

tapeguy: That's very selective. Back to Black was largely written by her alone. If you want to challenge those writing credits, go ahead, but that wouldn't be anything beyond speculation.
posted by Weebot at 11:09 AM on June 23

giraffe:
"How long is "after a while" then?"

As soon as your actions are impacting your ability to live a healthy and productive life and you're too old for CPS/Int'l analogue to take you away from irresponsible parents.

"Well, they certainly didn't teach manners when you were in school."

Awww, I'm sorry if you took that as me being mean. It wasn't, I promise, although I see how it could come off that way. When I was your age, we had spent many years with the phrases "no shit" and "no shit, Sherlock" as an evolution of "no duh". I'm sorry I didn't realise you were sensitive. I hope you'll pardon my lack of couth.

"Do you really think Amy Winehouse is refusing to treat her mental issues to be "cool"?"

I think she's partaking in destructive activities in order to keep some illusion of herself alive in her head and doing it publicly while out and about in front of cameras because she truly believes it's a credible and permissible method of existence, despite evidence to the contrary.

I understand that you're arguing from the position that she doesn't realise what she's doing. I think based on several statements and actions on her part that she does realise what she's doing and knows it is destructive and is too stubborn to admit that other people may be more right.

Here's some pointless backstory on my position:
My dad spent 20 years as a heroin junkie, which means he did anything else he could get his hands on. He knew what he was doing was wrong and hurt his family and was destroying his health, but he felt the cost was worth the ride. Now that his bones are turning to powder and he has to live on a pharmaceutical cocktail in order to get through the day, he feels differently and acknowledges we were right all along and that he knew it even then.

I'm not without empathy for Ms. Winehouse. She's clearly vulnerable and had some bad input at some point, either from her husband or friends or whatever. It's horribly sad to see someone who did have some modicum of talent and proved to be darkly interesting to lose their humanity and now, likely, their life. And, yes, it's partially sad because she's so damned young.

But this is the choice she made. She's been warned about it for years. The British medical community even had several physicians publicly release opinions that she needed to straighten up and consider her health, but she has stubbornly and immaturely held out, maybe not consciously, but it really is your job as a human to learn to be as conscious as possible about the impact of your decisions and then mitigate those that could harm you or others. And these are the repercussions of not doing so.

She could have been a musical treasure. Now she'll be a sad blip. I can only hope, as I said above, that this will help someone else make better decisions for themselves.
posted by batmonkey at 11:13 AM on June 23

So much for the compassionate MeFite stereotype.
posted by tkchrist at 11:14 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

I guess Tabloid Celebrity, with its metaphoric idolization/evisceration cycle, is better than old-fashioned, literal, stacking wood-around-a-stake witch-burning, but the whole thing still makes me uncomfortable.

As for Amy Winehouse-- and hey, even Britney Spears, and whomever next will be produced, packaged, purveyed, pumped-up, and then pulled apart into dainties and morsels for a hungry public, I sympathize.
posted by darth_tedious at 11:20 AM on June 23

But this is the choice she made. She's been warned about it for years. The British medical community even had several physicians publicly release opinions that she needed to straighten up and consider her health, but she has stubbornly and immaturely held out, maybe not consciously, but it really is your job as a human to learn to be as conscious as possible about the impact of your decisions and then mitigate those that could harm you or others. And these are the repercussions of not doing so.

I seriously doubt that a drug addict takes drugs without realizing the impact on personal health. I'm sure most addicts are acutely aware of the toll their addiction is taking on their bodies, or quickly grow awareness. Rather, it is that their compulsion subjugates all other needs and priorities, and repercussions are problems for another day.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:25 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

The 'writes their own songs' thing is a dopey-assed litmus test for quality. Plenty of great singers (Sinatra, Joe Cocker, Aretha Franklin) did not write their own material.

The question wasn't about quality, it was about what she's done that indicates "more depth" than Britney, et al.

And I disagree; I don't think songwriting is a dopey-assed litmus test. I don't think it's the be-all and end-all--it's certainly not the only litmus test--and like you said, plenty of great singers don't write their own material, but some people are more interested in songwriting than singing ability. A lot of my favorite musicians are pretty crap at singing but make up for it with great songwriting, and conversely, a lot of really talented singers have never really captured my attention because the songs just didn't do it for me.
posted by infinitywaltz at 11:30 AM on June 23

Blazecock Pileon:
You're preaching to the choir. I'm guessing I've got some kind of tone thing going on in my replies that's muddying my intentions, but, truly, we're on the same page here.

Most addicts have that same problem. It doesn't mean what they're doing isn't their responsibility.

I've got my own sick compulsions that harm my health. Just because it's a battle doesn't mean I'm excused from fighting it.
posted by batmonkey at 11:33 AM on June 23

we're not losing a Jimi Hendrix here. We're losing a Toni Basil here.

Maybe you have no idea, because you're all about the rock, man, but Basil has always had talent to burn. Besides "Mickey" and besides choreographing everything from American Graffiti to David Bowie's tours, to "Once In a Lifetime" for Talking Heads, she's been an actor, a video artist, and--back in the day--a member of Wallace Berman's Semina circle.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:40 AM on June 23 [3 favorites]

She's really interesting. Her videos convey a theme of isolation and the quality of being misunderstood, and I think it's her irreverence and subversion of all relevant stereotypes that makes her a cultural icon for this moment. It's like, let me get this straight: she's an English, Jewish, Foulmouthed, Tattoed, Motown Singing ...Crackhead? An original.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 11:41 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

but some people are more interested in songwriting than singing ability.

Call me spoiled, but I like both. And you listen to records, you don't read them.
posted by jonmc at 11:43 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

...with a beehive.
posted by Artw at 11:43 AM on June 23 [2 favorites]

Artw, that was a moment of accidental surrealistic beauty.
posted by jonmc at 11:45 AM on June 23

I'm just going to append "...with a beehive!" to everything now.
posted by Artw at 11:49 AM on June 23 [1 favorite]

...with a beehive!
posted by Artw at 11:50 AM on June 23

Of course, really what I should do is link that to the Lovecraftian horror of The Living Sign!
posted by Artw at 11:51 AM on June 23

I cheated myself
Like I knew I would
I told you I was trouble
You know that I'm no good

You can take that as ironic or tragic or what-have-you. But that about sums it up in her own words.
posted by wabbittwax at 11:56 AM on June 23

Addicts need treatment, but they have to want it. Maybe, God grant, this will move her in that direction.
posted by MarshallPoe at 11:57 AM on June 23

batmonkey, I'm sorry your dad was a junkie. I knew people who did (maybe still do, I don't know) heroin and it never really occurred to them that they were doing long-term damage. It was hard to watch. Massachusetts had the purest heroin in the states for awhile, I think. You could snort it. Don't know if that's still the case.

Anyway, I'm not saying it's par for the course, but a lot of people start using a drug thinking they'll stop before anything bad happens. The problem is, people like my friends, like Amy Winehouse, they all start using drugs before their cause/effect reasoning firms up. There's no logical connection that says "smoking crack = death" except whatever the police officer told you about drugs in elementary school. This is unfortunate, because some people don't firm up these connections until their early 20's.

Watching people disintegrate like that, I don't understand why anyone would say that staying addicted is a choice or a personality flaw. Kind of like how Layne Staley used heroin from when he was 15 until he died. He lost his liver and he had to keep using because he was in severe pain and would probably die without it (weighing like 90 pounds probably didn't help). It's something far more sinister than just being a fuckup.
posted by giraffe at 12:01 PM on June 23 [1 favorite]

I appreciate your sympathy, giraffe. I'm kind of beyond that part of it - sort of a "facts of existence" type thing at this point - but it doesn't mean I won't take a shoulder pat when it comes along.

"There's no logical connection that says "smoking crack = death" except whatever the police officer told you about drugs in elementary school."

Well, there is actually a hugely logical connection to that, called statistics, medical facts, and news reports. And simple chemistry & biology.

It has nothing to do with the police officer in elementary school, really. I know my perspective is a bit rare, but I believe if you're going to be using a substance to alter your consciousness, you owe it to yourself and society to research it, first, and determine possible negative effects and figure out if you can handle it or are otherwise willing to go down that path. You know, informed consent.

If one chooses to experiment the way the vast majority if the world chooses to do so - blindly & spontaneously - there are often opportunities after it has started for one to then do research after the fact and correct course or ask for help. Particularly in the age of the internet and Erowid (look it up).

If one choose to turn an experiment into a habit and never question it and spit on any who suggest they do so and avoid treatment when it is freely offered, well, there's really not much anyone can do but watch the inevitable decline.

And that's where Ms. Winehouse is at. Bless the poor little dear.

"It's something far more sinister than just being a fuckup."

Huh?
posted by batmonkey at 12:15 PM on June 23

It always startles me seeing the words great and talent being so misused on this particular website. Given a music industry that allowed the best to participate she'd be working at a convenience store for a living. She only seems like a great talent because the alternatives are just so much worse.

I watched a young cousin die of emphysema, someone who refused to quit smoking even after diagnosis. I hope Amy can quickly find a reason to like herself so she doesn't have to spend what's left of her life in turmoil and so her poor family can have some quality time with her. Outside of that small bit of empathy for her, I hope she cleans up so we all don't have to be tortured with photos of her in such a terrible state (esp. when those photos include her macking on Pete Doherty, holy shit).
posted by zarah at 12:25 PM on June 23

Also, a question:

How many of us actually *are* sick of the Tabloid Terror? You know, the whole following people around constantly and never giving them a private moment and pursuing them even when they begin to self-destruct?

Which leads me to another...

For those of us who are sick of it, is there anything you can think of to help turn the tide? Is there, in other words, anything we can do about it?
posted by batmonkey at 12:26 PM on June 23

The only thing that could stop it would be if nobody bought the magazines anymore. How do we make that happen?
posted by wabbittwax at 12:34 PM on June 23

And you listen to records, you don't read them.

You do? You mean...I'm doing it wrong?!
posted by infinitywaltz at 12:35 PM on June 23

You would have thought that if anything would have stopped it, it would have been back when Princess Diana was killed. It has only intensified since then. A hurricane of schadenfreude.
posted by Dave Faris at 12:36 PM on June 23

You do? You mean...I'm doing it wrong?!

If you're emphasizing lyrics over musicality, I'd have to say 'yes.' Music is not poetry, it's a sensual form far more than it's an intellectual one. Even rocks weirdo lyrical geniuses like Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen may not have been great singers, but they are great vocalists. Leonard Cohen is a great songwriter, but he is a terrible vocalist, which is why his songs sound better when covered by better vocalists.
posted by jonmc at 12:39 PM on June 23

For approximately two years, London has had two free evening "newspapers" that are handed out in front of Tube stations, thelondonpaper and London Lite. The former is published by R. Murdoch, the latter by Associated, publisher of the noxious Daily Mail and Evening Standard. Both these rags are unremittingly senationalist, downmarket and trade heavily on celebrity gossip. They have space to fill, and a London-based "troubled" celebrity is there bread and butter. It's "news" when they're pissed at a party. It's "news" when they're not pissed at a party. It's "news" when they skip a gig. It's "news" when they successfully show up for a gig.

Amy Winehouse is basically the patron saint of these freesheets. She's in them every day. She's paying for them. Her instability and relentless slow decline fills their pages, and means that her problems are essentially rewarded with coverage. Each lurch towards oblivion wins another splurge of coverage that is literally plastered all over London. There's a micron-thin layer of sanctimonious "concern" but it's basically WE LOVE YOU AMY EUURGH LOOK AT HER TOES GROSS. The influence of these two rags - and the rest of the celeb-based trash media - is a big part of the formula that appears to be killing Winehouse.

It might seem a bit parochial to focus on the two London freesheets, since Winehouse is in the rest of the media a lot as well, and the mass-market red-tops and supermarket magazines don't exactly have her best interests at heart, but I think it's woth mentioning as their influence is literally impossible to avoid when you're in London and invisible when you're not in London. Non-Londoners should know about them.

These newspapers and magazines are, in essence, hurting a young woman for money.
posted by WPW at 12:41 PM on June 23 [4 favorites]

Batmonkey, you're right, something should be done, and I have no idea what.
posted by WPW at 12:44 PM on June 23

It's kind of refreshing to see a star who's honestly commited to self-destruction.

That's what I was on about, jonmc. As usual, you said it better.

She makes Pete Dougherty look like a punter.
posted by three blind mice at 12:48 PM on June 23

The free newspapers have become a common thing in a lot of big cities. They are beneath contempt. They contain no real journalism, nothing even close to good writing, and are entirely built on wire-service reportage and recycled tabloid junk. I suppose they're paid for with ad space which means the end-user has no way to leverage the content by either buying or not buying. It's free. And you get what you pay for.

(this sort of negates my previous comment that all this would stop when people stopped buying the magazines)
posted by wabbittwax at 12:49 PM on June 23