Proof & The Pro-Family Pudding

July 21, 2008 10:08 AM

FlipFlop On The Family.
posted by Rykey (40 comments total)

Wait one bleeding minute... are you pointing out the hypocrisy or a Christian? Where did you find the time to research this rarity?
posted by dobbs at 10:17 AM on July 21

Hey, didja hear that some of the folks who backed Clinton and bashed Obama are now realizing that they'd have a better shot at agenda-setting if they recanted? It's totally true!

Or: "Sorry, not news."
posted by klangklangston at 10:17 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]

The only interesting bit for me: The author of that WorldNetDaily piece is called Unruh. Heh.
posted by Anderson_Localized at 10:22 AM on July 21

Christ, what an asshole.

(sorry, had to be said...however, the bigger this gets, and the more this prick is marginalized, the better. He's had my parents in his snake-dancer trance for about ten years now, and if given the opportunity, I'd not hesitate to punch him in the nuts.)
posted by notsnot at 10:24 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]

I'm actually happier with him backing McCain than not. That way, when McCain loses, he can't claim it was because he withheld his king-making powers.

Which is to say: Rats scrambling aboard a sinking ship is fine by me.
posted by DU at 10:26 AM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Don't drag pudding into this
posted by poppo at 10:30 AM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Back in the '80s, it was maddening to see these crackpots taken seriously. We told ourselves that, ultimately, no one would listen to them and they would fall off, their influence no longer tainting the political landscape.

What strange times we live in. It's like history never happened.
posted by batmonkey at 10:37 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Did anyone seriously think the religious right wouldn't come around to back McCain? To reject McCain would be freezing themselves out from access to the Oval Office, should McCain win. They aren't that insane.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:38 AM on July 21

Mr. McCain could earn (back) my respect if he were to respond with a polite "no thanks" to this. I'm still voting for the Irish guy -- Obama.
posted by mmahaffie at 10:44 AM on July 21

It is odd to see rats boarding a sinking ship.
posted by goethean at 10:44 AM on July 21

Can I just say that the phrase 'Flip-flopping', when used to mean anything other than walking around in the sandals of the same name, makes me want to slowly garrote the speaker with a piece of barbed wire.

I hated it when it was used in it's initial smear campaign and I hate it now even more because of it's irritating staying power.

Christian leader declares he couldn't support senator 'under any circumstances'
Posted: January 13, 2007

"I never thought I would hear myself saying this," Dobson said in a radio broadcast to air Monday. "... While I am not endorsing Senator John McCain, the possibility is there that I might." Sun July 20, 2008

Personally, I think it's great that Dobson wasn't going to support him, because it meant that we might have had a presidential cycle without aggressive input from the religious right. Or, maybe more importantly, a reduced need for either candidate to bother pandering.

Now I just find it funny that he's 'against his better judgment' considering changing his mind, which means to me that he's suddenly realized that if he doesn't try to support someone, it might an end to his beloved pandering. And God knows we can't have that.
posted by quin at 10:45 AM on July 21

Of course the religious right is going to embrace McCain. He's not their candidate of choice, but he's all they've got. If Obama wins they're out, no questions asked.

More to the point, McCain can't win without them, and they know it and he knows it. That gives 'em leverage, not as much as they'd like, but leverage nonetheless. Why do you think McCain, who previously called Falwell a divisive influence now thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread? Did McCain's disdain for Falwell really vanish? Of course not, but he knows he needs to play nice with the theocrats or he's got no chance of winning.
posted by sotonohito at 10:45 AM on July 21

To be fair, the Bible indicates that God Himself is none too consistent.
posted by DU at 10:46 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

Earlier, Dobson had said he could not in good conscience vote for McCain, citing the candidate's support for embryonic stem cell research and opposition to a federal constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, as well as concerns about McCain's temper and foul language.

Not in good conscience. Like this guy knows what a bad conscience is.

Fun to watch as the house of cards on which the Republicans built their 51% majority collapses under its own corrupt weight.

Most fun I've had in years.
posted by three blind mice at 10:49 AM on July 21

The phrase "flip-flop" and all reasonable synonyms thereof should be entirely banned from political discourse. To imply that it's wrong to change your mind when circumstances change is offensive. In fact, one could easily argue that an inability (or unwillingness) to do so is the root of all of the current administration's failings.
posted by Plutor at 10:50 AM on July 21 [20 favorites]

Plutor,

Precisely... I equate this to a line from one of my favorite, and ya'll can laugh at me later, anime. In Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust one of the vampire hunters points out that (paraphrased) "The Marcos Brothers have never backed down, that they have a reputation of never backing down, so they never can. If they did now they might as well give up." So Bush II has to stick to his guns or he really would be a lame duck, and essentially admitting it.

Of course, all of the political animals who are both inside (and by virtue of not being elected officials) outside gov't who jumped on the "Kerry is a Flip-Flopper" bandwagon last round are now using the Kerry campaign rhetoric to defend their own mind-change-ness. That's what makes me more sick.
posted by Sam.Burdick at 10:59 AM on July 21

EVERYONE, including Republicans, need to stop wasting time trying to please Focus of the Family or any other fanatic religious group. Fuck these people, they don't deserve anyone's pandering. Take away their alleged "political power" by ignoring them . (And yes it is almost that easy)
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:00 AM on July 21

After 2000, McCain Learned to Work Levers of Power (NYTimes, advertisements and registration required):

Over the next eight years, he mastered the art of political triangulation — variously teaming up with Mr. Lott against the president or the new Republican leaders, with Democrats against Republicans, and with the president against the Democrats — to become perhaps the chamber’s most influential member.

posted by peeedro at 11:01 AM on July 21

To imply that it's wrong to change your mind when circumstances change is offensive.

What unforeseeable circumstance changed?
posted by Rykey at 11:01 AM on July 21 [2 favorites]

The phrase "flip-flop" and all reasonable synonyms thereof should be entirely banned from political discourse.

That's not what you said in 2005.



posted by Kirth Gerson at 11:03 AM on July 21 [5 favorites]

To imply that it's wrong to change your mind when circumstances change is offensive.

Who implied that? More specifically, what new/changed circumstances prompted Dobson to go from "no way" to "OK, I guess so"?
posted by DU at 11:06 AM on July 21

McCain got the nomination.
posted by box at 11:08 AM on July 21

Kirth Gerson: "That's not what you said in 2005."

Shit, they have to get rid of that user search thing. I was offensive back in 2005, apparently.
posted by Plutor at 11:10 AM on July 21

You know, a revelation of this magnitude might just be enough to start to turn Metafilter against Dobson.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 11:11 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]

Plutor's a flip-flopper!
posted by Rykey at 11:12 AM on July 21

The sad thing is, people will blindly follow Dobson on this venture too (my parents included)
posted by Hands of Manos at 11:16 AM on July 21

Fuck these people, they don't deserve anyone's pandering. Take away their alleged "political power" by ignoring them

that's not how politics works. Republicans know the kulturkampf laundry list (outlawing abortion, official [Christian] prayer in school and the public square, etc) is a big vote getter among a wide swath of this country.

And since these positions don't cost them anything it's a freebie as long as their 51% majority holds. If they get rebuffed in November again then I guess it's back to the drawing boards for them.
posted by yort at 11:16 AM on July 21

Brand new day, Plutor; brand new day.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 11:17 AM on July 21

I'm not convinced that the hardline Christian population ( I mean the strict ones , evangelicals, creationists, etc) is as big of a voting force as people like to speculate. Out of the people in this country who are Christian, most of them are not as strict or insane as this, they don't all feel the urge to convert the land into a suburban Mega Church. Many are reasonable. I get the feeling in a way , that these media reports of huge fundamentalist Christian organizations with much political power all over the midwest and between coasts is sorta like the crack "epidemic" in the 80s- it's been exaggerated to seem like much more than it is. That's why I say stop treating them like they decide the fate of all national elections. But of course that would only work if everyone did it.
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:28 AM on July 21 [1 favorite]

What unforeseeable circumstance changed?

Not supporting McCain means having no influence when President-elect Obama takes office.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:33 AM on July 21

I enjoy the easy-to-put-on minimalism of flip-flops. That, and can be very inexpensive.
posted by everichon at 11:35 AM on July 21

After 2000, McCain Learned to Work Levers of Power

I saw that article this morning and wondered why it wasn't titled "After 2000, McCain Traded Soul, Maverick Image for Last Desperate Shot at Presidency." OK, I didn't really wonder, but it's annoying how the media still refers to him as a maverick after explicitly reporting on his transformation.

they don't all feel the urge to convert the land into a suburban Mega Church

Obama, McCain to stump at Orange County [mega] church

Plutor's a flip-flopper!

On flip-flopping!
posted by kirkaracha at 11:38 AM on July 21

Liquidwolf it isn't so much that they make up a large percentage of the population as it is that a) they vote often and reliably, b) they take orders well and act as a group, and c) they will volunteer for GotV operations and are a reliable source of money.

Absolute numbers mean little because voting is entirely voluntary, a small population that votes (reliably) is worth more than a large population that doesn't. Add in their money, the political power of a mobilized church network, and their GotV work, and the fundies are an absolutely essential resource for the Republicans.
posted by sotonohito at 11:39 AM on July 21 [2 favorites]

Not supporting McCain means having no influence when President-elect Obama takes office.

I wouldn't be so certain about that prediction.
posted by blucevalo at 11:40 AM on July 21

Kirth Gerson wins this thread.

Outstanding work.
posted by tadellin at 11:54 AM on July 21

I used to be wrong, now I'm right. It's a shame that most people will never know the liberation of that flip-flop.
posted by Plutor at 12:01 PM on July 21

Barack Obama contradicts and threatens everything I believe about the institution of the family and what is best for the nation. His radical positions on life, marriage and national security force me to reevaluate the candidacy of our only other choice, John McCain.

Clearly, the man who left his crippled wife for a blonde heiress young enough to be his daughter is the only one who can defend the family from notorious monogamist Barack Obama.
posted by EarBucket at 12:08 PM on July 21 [2 favorites]

At least they're working hard to put food on your family
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:09 PM on July 21

Just say you were for it before you were against it; that line always works.
posted by yhbc at 12:10 PM on July 21

The point here is that Dobson is going to endorse McCain because McCain is the nominee, and doing otherwise (which would be, essentially, telling his followers to stay home on election day) would just cause more problems than it solves.

If that did happen, and McCain looses, Dobson will be blamed for 4-8 years of Obama. If McCain wins, it'll show that the religious right has only a fraction of the power that it once wielded. But with an endorsement, Dobson can take credit if McCain wins. Or, if McCain looses, Dobson could just claim that the RR went down with the ship like the brave sailors they are.

Its about politics, not principle. Of course, as someone who's built his life around being a Man of Principle, he's tarnishing himself. Not that I'm surprised by that, mind you. Dobson wants to create an expressly political form of Christianity that will call the shots in this country. Nobody should be surprised that "political Christianity" slowly sacrifices it's principles. He who lays down with dogs, etc. etc.
posted by Avenger at 12:26 PM on July 21