Join 3,572 readers in helping fund MetaFilter (Hide)


And protected from witchcraft, too!
October 24, 2008 9:01 AM   Subscribe

Palin for 2012? She's popular with conservatives, and even before any potential makeover 6 out of 10 evangelicals think she is experienced enough to be president. She'd potentially get the Huckabee evangelical vote in the primaries *and* the talk radio wing. If Obama succeeds in taking moderates, the evangelical and talk radio wings will only be stronger. And the GOP would appear to already be talking about it.
posted by jaduncan (317 comments total) 12 users marked this as a favorite

 
Sweet dems are going to be in office for the next 8 years!
posted by Mastercheddaar at 9:04 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Didn't the Mayans have something to say about this?
posted by solipsophistocracy at 9:05 AM on October 24, 2008 [65 favorites]


Haven't they done enough to destroy their own party already?
posted by preparat at 9:06 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I think all Americans, no matter what political affiliation, can agree that they hope Palin is the GOP candidate in 2012.
posted by DU at 9:06 AM on October 24, 2008 [72 favorites]


She'd potentially get the Huckabee evangelical vote in the primaries

You know, uh, Huckabee lost the primaries. She may need a little more going for her than 6 out of 10 evangelicals. Good luck!
posted by tushfestival at 9:07 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Also, to put this in perspective, at least 8 out of 10 evangelicals think there's an invisible sky giant who helps their favorite sports team make goals.
posted by DU at 9:07 AM on October 24, 2008 [58 favorites]


Evangelicals would elect a potato with a "pro-life" sticker slapped on it.
posted by boo_radley at 9:08 AM on October 24, 2008 [75 favorites]


Ok, I get it. Democrats have infiltrated the GOP to destroy it from within. Everything makes perfect sense now.
posted by stavrogin at 9:08 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


If the economy is better in 2012, whoever is in the oval office will stay there (most likely).
posted by Mister_A at 9:10 AM on October 24, 2008


ha, and there'd be a brash outsider Yukon Gold that would interview poorly, but would energize the base. It'd all end in a hash, though.
posted by boo_radley at 9:14 AM on October 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


Oh, please please please please please.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:16 AM on October 24, 2008


Not cool jaduncan. She isn't even here.
posted by netbros at 9:17 AM on October 24, 2008 [12 favorites]


even before any potential makeover 6 out of 10 evangelicals think she is experienced enough to be president

Really? Only 6? After all the rabble-rousing and inciting of hatred of anyone not like her and her Christian brethren? And she can only get 6 out of 10 evangelicals to support her?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:18 AM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


The rift in the Republican party is only going to get worse. Palin may do better as a scapegoat in some people's eyes, and others are saying Palin 2012. Its could be like the Bull-Moose party all over again, only with less badassery and more Jeebusery.
posted by cimbrog at 9:19 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Not that this is related but I remember during the 1992 Republican convention in Houston a lot of delegates came into the museum I was working at with Quayle in '96 buttons.
posted by dog food sugar at 9:19 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Evangelicals would elect a potato with a "pro-life" sticker slapped on it.

I don't think Bush is going to run again.
posted by spiderwire at 9:19 AM on October 24, 2008 [41 favorites]


She may not look up to the task now, but in four years she will be a much more formidable opponent. She is very aggressive and if she does her homework will not look so uninformed on so many issues. I wouldn't sell her short as a candidate.
posted by caddis at 9:19 AM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


4 out of 10 saying she is not experienced enough (which the article states) doesn't translate into 6 out of 10 saying she is experienced.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:20 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


www.tinafeytrojanhorse.com
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:21 AM on October 24, 2008


She is very aggressive and if she does her homework will not look so uninformed on so many issues.

But she'll have plenty of oppo video from 2008 she'll have to explain away. Not to mention a humiliating defeat.
posted by DU at 9:22 AM on October 24, 2008


No. Please, no.
posted by mylittlehipster at 9:23 AM on October 24, 2008


4 out of 10 saying she is not experienced enough (which the article states) doesn't translate into 6 out of 10 saying she is experienced.

I am genuinely confused. How is this not 6 out of 10 implicitly (or, depending on the wording of the question, explicitly) saying she is indeed experienced enough?
posted by jaduncan at 9:24 AM on October 24, 2008


boo_radley : Evangelicals would elect a potato with a "pro-life" sticker slapped on it.

I don't know, potatoes have a long and sorted history of associating out with militant Irish Catholics and let's be honest, they are a little too brown on the outside for some people to be truly comfortable with them.

To pull it off, they might have to run the potato as a VP, you know, on the ticket, but sort of in the background. Ideally they shouldn't give it too many interviews either, because of the high probability of its bigotry of fryers coming out in the open.
posted by quin at 9:24 AM on October 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


If Palin or any of your super-fundie Jesusland people becomes President, Canada will have to invade, eh.
posted by illiad at 9:27 AM on October 24, 2008


If Palin or any of your super-fundie Jesusland people becomes President, Canada will have to invade, eh.

Until you guys stop re-electing Stephen Harper, let's keep the Jesusland stuff to a minimum.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:29 AM on October 24, 2008 [22 favorites]


Deathmatch for control of the GOP: Newt vs Palin!
posted by R. Mutt at 9:29 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


If Obama succeeds in taking moderates, the evangelical and talk radio wings will only be stronger.

This is one of those outcomes that people seem to predict for just about any scenario. If Obama wins, it will make the hard right feel victimized and angry and they'll rally behind that. If McCain wins, the hard right will feel emboldened because they delivered the votes. It becomes a meaningless prediction.
posted by mullacc at 9:30 AM on October 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


jaduncan: Just in case you are being genuine about being genuinely confused: "I don't know" is also a valid answer to the question of whether or not she is experienced enough. Also note that in the poll you're quoting, she seems to actually be doing worse as time goes on. Have to be careful with this polling data.
posted by penduluum at 9:33 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


On reflection, accepted. I hadn't considered it that way, but apologise.
posted by jaduncan at 9:33 AM on October 24, 2008


I will vote for her becAsue she is HOT. but in 8 years? I will vote for her daughter instead, baby and all.
posted by Postroad at 9:34 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Bristol/Bristol's Kid 2016!
posted by penduluum at 9:35 AM on October 24, 2008


Careful what you wish for. Palin has already softened in this election cycle and there's a potentially great story to be told about how John McCain thrust her into the limelight before she was ready, but now, in 2012, she's found her voice.

Plus, if Obama wins, the argument about lack of experience for Palin 54135413
goes sailing out the window for 2012.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:35 AM on October 24, 2008


Until you guys stop re-electing Stephen Harper, let's keep the Jesusland stuff to a minimum.

Yeah, and there's this fantastic "super-fundie" MP named Stockwell Day up there as well .....
posted by blucevalo at 9:35 AM on October 24, 2008


Until you guys stop re-electing Stephen Harper

I didn't vote for him. We have the Marijuana Party here.
posted by illiad at 9:36 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Polling data:

18. (ASKED OF REGISTERED VOTERS) Do you think [NAME] does or does not have the kind of experience it takes to serve effectively as president, if that became necessary?
...
Does Does not No opinion

b. Sarah Palin

9/29/08 RV 35 60 5
9/7/08 RV 47 45 8
9/4/08 RV 43 51 6

posted by unmake at 9:40 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Why do I suspect that Palin has turned into the Hillary Clinton of the Republican Party and that from now until she drops dead we'll keep hearing Democrats fantasize about her run for the White House?

Maybe because it's already true!
posted by briank at 9:41 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


DU: I think all Americans, no matter what political affiliation, can agree that they hope Palin is the GOP candidate in 2012. Except that ragtag, battered band of non-crazy Republicans who privately grieve at the joke their party has been reduced to. You think Colin Powell would be happy with Palin '12?

Speaking as a liberal, I'd like to see two developments in American national politics:
1. The emergence of a liberal party (the Democrats could as not-very-conservative, not liberal).
2. The emergence of a non-crazy conservative party if for no other reason than to keep the liberals honest.

When the GOP is reduced to a bunch of anti-gay, anti-science, anti-abortion, anti-rest-of-the-world populists (a trend which Palin '12 would continue), it becomes self-limiting and easy to dismiss. If the USA had a GOP that stood mainly for things like limited government and fiscal responsibility—Eisenhower Republicans, you could say—it might bring something useful to the table. As it is, it seems as if some of the more cynical Republicans back in the 60s and 70s latched onto evangelicals as a useful, tractable demographic but are watching their party be taken over by them.
posted by adamrice at 9:41 AM on October 24, 2008 [34 favorites]


I wouldn't sell her short as a candidate.

Unless she spends the next four years developing the ability of actually answering a direct question, there is no way she would survive the primaries.

Nearly all of her appearances thus far have been tightly controlled, and when she is allowed to improvise, she sounds like a talking point Markov generator. Being allowed to hide in the background as a VP might work, putting her as the primary on a ticket would most assuredly end in disaster.
posted by quin at 9:42 AM on October 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


Plus, if Obama wins, the argument about lack of experience for Palin goes sailing out the window for 2012.

That would only hold if he does well, because then they could say 'He didn't have much experience either, and that turned out fine!' But if that's the case, well, you can't run against an incumbent president by saying he did a great job.
posted by echo target at 9:42 AM on October 24, 2008


Goodbye for now, internets. see ya on Nov. 5th!

I just can't take it any more
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:43 AM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


Good observation, adamrice. I agree. A proper liberal party would be awesome, but so would a proper conservative party -- just to keep us liberals on our toes.
posted by grubi at 9:43 AM on October 24, 2008


I didn't vote for him. We have the Marijuana Party here.

Well, I didn't vote for Palin. Nor did I vote for Bush. We have a few loony politicians who are fake Jesus freaks, but we have other options, too.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:43 AM on October 24, 2008


From the original "6 of 10" story: But even within these Republican strongholds, questions about Palin's experience are fairly common. About four in 10 conservatives and white evangelical Protestants, three in 10 Republicans and a quarter of GOP women said she does not have the necessary experience.

If you've seen major political polls, you'll notice a gap between "support X" and "against X/support Y". There was 10% not represented in that poll - so only 4 conservative, white evangelical Protestants could believe Palin is experienced enough. Of course, 4 years is plenty of time to get experience, or at remember what she read about politics and news. But maybe that (V)PILF factor will also decrease in 4 years, who knows.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:43 AM on October 24, 2008


Even the Russians think she's hilarious.
posted by maryh at 9:47 AM on October 24, 2008 [8 favorites]


Poor Colin Powel - does he really hold that much sway with people? He was the unfortunate mouthpiece for the Iraq War, and I think he lost a lot because of it. Interestingly enough, though, some Republicans (who comment on blogs) might sway with the Powel Bump.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:50 AM on October 24, 2008


"But she'll have plenty of oppo video from 2008 she'll have to explain away" No she won't. They don't seem to have to explain away anything. It's freakin' amazing.

McCain is on the TV right now. He's basically running through a list of things that have been thoroughly refuted as complete and utter lies and just repeating them with a big grin. I'm not talking about things that are stretched or misrepresented - this is mostly tax-related BS even Fox suggested he stop spouting. McCain is also encouraging a lot of booing. Very healthy.

I listed for 36 minutes without hearing one single thing that he will do. Not one thing.

By the way, I assume everyone has heard that the "budget difference" between her and Walt Monegan had to do with her wanting to use a state plane for herself, right? And another part was around funding for a sexual and domestic abuse initiative? No wonder she canned his ass, god forbid the good people of real America get more information about women and children in peril. Those kids were born, how pro-life can you get?
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:51 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I can't wait for the Palin/Mittens slapfight that is going to be the 2012 GOP primary.
posted by Rangeboy at 9:51 AM on October 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


Speaking as a liberal, I'd like to see two developments in American national politics:
1. The emergence of a liberal party (the Democrats could as not-very-conservative, not liberal).
2. The emergence of a non-crazy conservative party if for no other reason than to keep the liberals honest


If the first happened, the second would automatically occur, as an out and out liberal party would transform the Democrats into a non-crazy conservative party.

Unfortunately for you, you're far more likely to see the Democrats stay where they are, the GOP get less crazy, and an extra-crazy conservative splinter party appear.

Or alternatively, the GOP will get more crazy and a non-crazy conservative party will appear. But the specter of communism is going to suppress any chance for a real liberal party for another 20, 25 years, at least.

And neither new party is particularly likely; the two current parties have a pretty good hold on the system of government.
posted by Caduceus at 9:51 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


We have the Marijuana Party here.

A party that has zero seats in Parliament.
posted by blucevalo at 9:52 AM on October 24, 2008


Previous comment regarding Palin's future chances.

Also, snarking on someone who isn't here any more is bad form, and makes one look especially stupid and jerky when they can't even spell the name right.

Until you guys stop re-electing Stephen Harper, let's keep the Jesusland stuff to a minimum.

In fairness to Harper he usually keeps the Jesus stuff to a minimum and is an evangelical in a country where their political influence is limited and regional. Occasionally he'll toss out a "God Bless Canada," depending on where he's speaking, but his affiliation with libertarianism, Straussian neoconservatism, and laissez faire economics is far more troubling.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:54 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


If I remember correctly, there was some talk a couple years ago in an Economist article about how the Republican Party might fracture from having to pander to so many interest groups. Palin might run in 2012, but it may be in some third party derivative of the GOP. She could even run with the Constitution Party (one hopes).
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:54 AM on October 24, 2008


Palin is an idiot. There is no way she could go 8 years (or even 4 years) without doing something so crazy that even the fundies wouldn't vote for her..

and "Evangelicals would elect a potato with a "pro-life" sticker slapped on it." is my favorite phrase of the day...
posted by HuronBob at 9:55 AM on October 24, 2008


Sure Peter, it is already accepted and apologised for

Sorry, jaduncan, I missed that. That'll teach me to get up and make a cup of tea in the middle of writing a post.

However, I'll happily run for president on behalf of the Marijuana Party in 2012. Thanks for the nomination.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:56 AM on October 24, 2008


but his affiliation with libertarianism, Straussian neoconservatism, and laissez faire economics is far more troubling.

One of these things is not like the other things / one of these things just doesn't belong...
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 9:56 AM on October 24, 2008


Why not? There's no reason to believe that Americans will be any smarter in four years, so she should have a chance.
posted by Legomancer at 9:57 AM on October 24, 2008


I don't know. I think four years of actual preparation could make her a viable candidate.

A horrific potential President, yes, no question, but four years is a long time to prepare for interviews and debates. And if she spends two of those years hosting a show on Fox, she'll get much better at thinking on her feet, too.

I think FuturePalin could be formidable.
posted by rokusan at 9:57 AM on October 24, 2008


Until you guys stop re-electing Stephen Harper, let's keep the Jesusland stuff to a minimum.

Have you looked up the definition of a minority government? America could sure use one right abouts now.
posted by GuyZero at 9:58 AM on October 24, 2008


Palin is an idiot.

idiots want representation in our government, too

but seriously, this woman has struck a nerve - the know-nothings of our times love her and the people on the left love to hate her

she's got star power and unless she does something really dumb, we're stuck with her for a long time
posted by pyramid termite at 10:00 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]




We have the Marijuana Party here.

A party that has zero seats in Parliament.



They just forgot to show up.
posted by The Whelk at 10:00 AM on October 24, 2008 [9 favorites]


Not that this is related but I remember during the 1992 Republican convention in Houston a lot of delegates came into the museum I was working at with Quayle in '96 buttons.

Dan Quayle is very related. He was the proto GWB. Or more to the point, the guy was so DUMB even morons could tell. So GWB was just that little bit more astute and informed. I think Sarah P is going the way of Quayle (ie: nowhere in particular). The thing to fear is the new and improved version (less white trash, less STUPID, a little more mature) but every bit as mean-minded, spiteful, xenophobic and otherwise nasty deep down inside ... but kinda folksy and pretty outside where it counts.
posted by philip-random at 10:00 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


However, I'll happily run for president on behalf of the Marijuana Party in 2012. Thanks for the nomination.

Would you apply a litmus test on judges for the Cannabis Cup?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:00 AM on October 24, 2008


I think FuturePalin could be formidable.

Sure, in the same sense that a Cybernetic McCain-bot could be a great challenger for the 2020 election too. It's all theoretical. My prediction, based on "science!" is that the Palin embarrasment will mean she'll even have a tough time running for anything more than a local election in Alaska. She'll become the Rep for her district to the US House and then fade into oblivion, much like Kathrine Harris.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:04 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I think four years of actual preparation could make her a viable candidate.

People have a pretty short memory span. They'll remember laughing at SNL skits, but less what they were laughing about, and make new, positive associations with her. She could be dangerous.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:04 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


I'm one of those crazy religious people who has always voted republican, have fairly conservative views and feel strongly about abortion. I really, really dislike the direction the GOP is going in, Palin's nomination and subsequent behavior being a perfect example.

I think her choice as VP was a shortsighted play for a particular demographic and a momentary boost in the polls. I think that all the people that are fawning over her now are deliberately choosing to overlook her lack of qualification, and justify it by a (twisted) comparison to what they see as Obama's limited experience.

Perhaps this is naive, but I really doubt that these people deep down actually believe that she is all that qualified vor VP, much less for president. But to admit as much would be to accept defeat, which is unacceptable. The slippery slope for people who feel so passionately/dogmatically about a few key issues is that its easy to get into an ends-justifies-the-means way of thinking. That is to say, they will look the other way on incompetance, deception, inexperience, etc so long as they think that it will affect [hot button issue], because [hot button issue] is so important. (I think this way of thinking goes on in both conservative and liberal circles)

That being said, I really doubt that Palin would have any chance winning the repulican nomination in the near future. I think that those people who are supporting her now because they don't have much of a choice, and are willing to cross their fingers and pray for McCain's health, wouldn't go so far as to actually nominate her as a presidential candidate, providing there are other likeminded candidates with actual experience.

In the meantime, until the republicans straighten out their act, this conservative is voting for Obama.
posted by jpdoane at 10:10 AM on October 24, 2008 [28 favorites]


One of these things is not like the other things / one of these things just doesn't belong...

Tell that to the Calgary School.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:10 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


6 out of 10 evangelicals would do well to remember that they don't necessarily represent the wishes of 6 out of 10 Americans.
posted by contessa at 10:12 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Speaking as a liberal, I'd like to see two developments in American national politics:
1. The emergence of a liberal party (the Democrats could as not-very-conservative, not liberal).
2. The emergence of a non-crazy conservative party if for no other reason than to keep the liberals honest.


One of my good friends is a Green Party delegate, and I am therefore contracturally obligated to point out on his behalf that "you know, there already are third-party candidates that fit both these specifications."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:12 AM on October 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


People have forgotten that Reagan was nothing but a male Sarah Palin. Clearly not in the loop and just a prop. And he was elected twice.

Fast forward to 2008 with an even more conservative mainstream news media than there was in the 80's.

Now fast forward to 2012 when Lachlan Murdoch owns the NY Times.
posted by Zambrano at 10:13 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Guys, the "Liberal Party" is the Green Party.
posted by giraffe at 10:13 AM on October 24, 2008


Or what EmpressCallipygos said.

Moving on..
posted by giraffe at 10:14 AM on October 24, 2008


As the acidic backwash of the McCain-Palin ticket gets thrown-up and redigested over the next four years of American political indigestion, I think the only thing that Palin will be running for in the future is a co-host spot on The View.
posted by mrmojoflying at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2008


maryh- that was hilarious. The Russians sing:
"I want to rear my little head."
posted by pointilist at 10:22 AM on October 24, 2008


2012 posts already?

DO NOT WANT
posted by scabrous at 10:23 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Don't forget that Palin will first have to get re-elected governor in 2010, and her little VP adventure seems to have energized her opposition up there. Her approval ratings are taking a major hit as many Alaskans realize that she is acting not so much governor as queen.

That said, if she survives up there, she could be a player in 2012, but the prevailing wind in the lower 48 isn't exactly favoring extreme right candidates. Even if she moderates, huge numbers of conservative non-Alaskans will remember not voting for McCain primarily because of her and will be pretty damn skeptical. And she won't have the new-car smell anymore, either.

In her favor, by 2012 she will have had time to read all 12 pages of the Constitution.
posted by Camofrog at 10:23 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


I am naive enough to hope that having an articulate and intelligent president for 4 years will change the whole landscape -- that people will actually come to expect intelligent political discourse -- and that a 2012 Republican candidate will come from a newly-strengthened grownup wing of the party.

I'm also naive enough to hope that I'll be able to stick an 'H' bumper sticker on my car and that people will not go batshitinsane that their president's middle name is Hussein.
posted by Killick at 10:26 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Perhaps this is naive, but I really doubt that these people deep down actually believe that she is all that qualified vor VP, much less for president.

i think they do - her main "qualification" is that she thinks and believes the right things and god is on her side and will tell her what she should do

seriously - and although i personally believe that god can guide a person i also believe that one is expected to do one's homework first, before asking for that guidance - because if you don't, god's answer is going to be - "why don't you quit and let someone who knows what they're doing handle it?"

but in the mindframe of many, they think that just because god "can do anything" that he WILL do anything just for them - including telling sarah palin how to be president

oh, well
posted by pyramid termite at 10:26 AM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


I'm assuming a hypothetical President Palin's first official act would be to establish Witchtanamo?
posted by Uppity Pigeon #2 at 10:26 AM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


People have forgotten that Reagan was nothing but a male Sarah Palin.

But his nickname was "The Great Communicator". He didn't know anything, but he could deliver a great line in a soothing voice. Palin can do neither of those things.
posted by DU at 10:26 AM on October 24, 2008


Yeah, I think watch for Palin in 2012, with a different story. She'll have been elected again in Alaska, and will be a bit more polished and palatable for the mainstream, and now will have a different message about energy independence (because, in theory, that landscape will have changed quite a bit), and she'll have a storyline of, "McCain and I would have won if only he had listened to me and fought harder."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:26 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Palin will not be the GOP nominee in 2012 if Obama wins, for four reasons:

1. An Obama landslide, which is looking increasingly likely, will mark the end of conservatism as we currently know it. You're already seeing the factions within the GOP starting to fight with each other, while moderate Republicans and intellectual conservatives are increasingly defecting towards Obama. There will be a lot of tumult within the party over the next four years, and there's no guarantee the two sections of the party that most favor Palin -- the social/religious conservatives and the fear-driven neo-cons.

2. Outside of Bush, name one religious conservative that has successfully won the GOP nomination. Alan Keyes, Gary Bauer, Pat Robertson, Dan Quayle, Sam Brownback, they've all failed and failed badly. Even Bush was less a religious conservative and more someone the religious conservatives supported because they thought he could win.

3. Which leads to Palin's Alaska problems. I would expect the Alaska GOP to mount a strong challenge to her in the primary, mainly because they don't like her. And that's before the DNC starts pumping cash to whomever is the Dem nominee. I have real doubts she'll make it to term two, and even if she does she'll have piles of political dirty laundry that will follow her to the nomination. If she loses the 2010 election, the religious conservatives will see her as incapable of winning. If she wins, she may still be seen as vulnerable.

4. And at the end of the day, Palin was stunt casting in this race, not a serious contender. And stunt casting means much of what's driving her is celebrity. And celebrity fades.

Right now I'm not sure if anyone we see now will be a nominee. Obama was seen as a long long shot in 2004 -- most everyone saw him as a candidate in 2012 if Hillary lost, 2016 if she won. If Bobby Jindal can survive his political struggles in Baton Rouge, then he may be a better choice for the GOP than Palin. Romney could try again and do well if Obama can't right the economic ship. If Rossi wins up here I can see the GOP drafting him as the "next Dubya" -- his lack of experience doesn't seem to be hurting him. And Lindsey Graham I think has the right sort of mix of experience and bona fides to be a compromise candidate for the warring GOP factions.

But Palin? Again, she needs to get another term in WasillaJuneau to be viable next time around. And now everyone will be gunning for her.
posted by dw at 10:29 AM on October 24, 2008 [10 favorites]


Aside to Giraffe: it's interesting knowing him, as we've gotten into some VERY lively conversations as of late since I tend to have not given up on the Dems yet.

Although, I did vote for the Green Party candidate in the last New York State gubernatorial election -- largely because I personally knew the candidate, and the idea of Malachy McCourt as governor just tickled me.

The fact after Spitzer went nuts, I could legitimately say "hey, I didn't vote for him," was just gravy.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:32 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


And celebrity fades.

But make-up doesn't, if reapplied often enough.

Who made more money than any other individual in the McCain-Palin campaign for the first two weeks of October? Palin's make-up artist -- $22,800 for two-weeks!

Wasn't there something said about lipstick and pigs?
posted by ericb at 10:33 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


I'm taking bets that, by 2012, we'll all be saying "Sarah who?"... then, when we remember, we'll just start laughing....

I have to admit that Sarah was the best thing that happened to the Dems this election cycle, I'm considering sending her a thank you card......
posted by HuronBob at 10:35 AM on October 24, 2008


She may not look up to the task now, but in four years she will be a much more formidable opponent. She is very aggressive and if she does her homework will not look so uninformed on so many issues. I wouldn't sell her short as a candidate.

But she already had 44 years to learn how speak a coherent sentence. This is like saying if New Kids on the Block waited 4 years to follow up Hangin' Tough they could have made Pet Sounds.
posted by snofoam at 10:36 AM on October 24, 2008 [42 favorites]


Would you apply a litmus test on judges for the Cannabis Cup?

If you aren't prepared to countenance experimentation with stem cells in cannabis genetics, then you're not getting on my bench. I forsee a future in which joints will actually roll themselves -- and if it takes the sacrifice of a million fetuses to get there, that's a price we'll have to pay.

People have a pretty short memory span.

We're gaining ground, folks...
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:37 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Until you guys stop re-electing Stephen Harper, let's keep the Jesusland stuff to a minimum.

Have you looked up the definition of a minority government? America could sure use one right abouts now.


Also just to note that in America, Stephen Harper would count as a Democrat in terms of policy. And he keeps the religious stuff, whatever it is, quiet. Canada's a pretty secular place, really.
posted by jokeefe at 10:39 AM on October 24, 2008


The US as a whole would be better off if the two major parties could somehow both split into 4 viable parties:

Progressives - Firedoglake/netroots/secularists/atheists
Democrats - Pretty much as they are now.
Libertarian republicans - small 'r' intentional
Theocratic Republicans/War Party - Today's ignorant Hannity/Rove/Bush/McCain capital 'R' Republicans
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:43 AM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


But she already had 44 years to learn how speak a coherent sentence. This is like saying if New Kids on the Block waited 4 years to follow up Hangin' Tough they could have made Pet Sounds.

That's a good point, but it doesn't explain how George W. got elected. The problem is not that Palin is an idiot, it's that 27% of the electorate thinks idiots are just what the Oval Office needs.
posted by Camofrog at 10:44 AM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


If Rossi wins up here I can see the GOP drafting him as the "next Dubya" -- his lack of experience doesn't seem to be hurting him. And Lindsey Graham I think has the right sort of mix of experience and bona fides to be a compromise candidate for the warring GOP factions.

Oh god. Please don't throw nightmare fuel like that at me. Rossi is terrifying.
posted by Caduceus at 10:44 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Fuck me in the ass with a rusty shovel that was just used to clean the cage of an elderly elephant suffering from dysentery.
posted by pmbuko at 10:48 AM on October 24, 2008


If the USA had a GOP that stood mainly for things like limited government and fiscal responsibility—

Well, that seemed to be the Ron Paul message and we see how that worked out for him. How far off track has the GOP gone when a man that espouses the bedrock principals of his party is written of as some kind of nut? The GOP has really lost it's way and a lot of reasonable people, like me, along the long road to Palinville. Look at McCain, he's pretty much abandoned everything that made made him a "maverick" and popular with moderates just to position himself better with the fabled GOP "base". Bad move John, I won't be voting for you, I hope you at least get a lapper from the Gov. before she heads back to Alaska.
posted by MikeMc at 10:49 AM on October 24, 2008


"she's got star power"

If by "star power" you mean, drove the McCain ticket into the ground, then I agree.
posted by bardic at 10:49 AM on October 24, 2008


Shooting star power, perhaps. She's the Tungunska of the Republican Party.
posted by snofoam at 10:50 AM on October 24, 2008 [13 favorites]


I'm pretty sure that if Obama wins now, Palin will try running in 2012 but won't make it out of the primaries.

Her in-experience would be even more of an issue because Obama will have had four years of actual presidential experience (as Bush used as a knock against Kerry).

As long as she stays based in Alaska, it'll be hard for her to gain national attention regularly, at least among non-Republicans. She could try to get more national attention by running for the Senate, but it doesn't seem like it would fit her style.

Plus, it seems like the giant wardrobe bill has to sit badly with many Republicans.

Now, if McCain were to win...
posted by drezdn at 10:51 AM on October 24, 2008


Well, that seemed to be the Ron Paul message and we see how that worked out for him. How far off track has the GOP gone when a man that espouses the bedrock principals of his party is written of as some kind of nut?

On the surface, yes, that was the Ron Paul message. If you looked at anything below the surface and had even the most basic knowledge of economics, it turned out that Ron Paul was, in fact, some kind of nut.
posted by Caduceus at 10:55 AM on October 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


I'll agree with dw and add another reason. I don't think that all cultural conservatives will go for a female president. They are willing to accept her as VP because it's been 34 years since the last time the VP assumed the powers of the president for any length of time. But I'd think that if she did run in the presidential primary, she'd get much more misognynistic flak than Clinton did this time around.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:58 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Well, that seemed to be the Ron Paul message and we see how that worked out for him. How far off track has the GOP gone when a man that espouses the bedrock principals of his party is written of as some kind of nut?

To be fair, Ron Paul actually is a nut.
posted by dersins at 10:59 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


People have forgotten that Reagan was nothing but a male Sarah Palin.

Boy. Sarah Palin has a male doppelganger for every decade you want foist some analogy on to.

Sarah Palin is the logical extension of where the GOP has been heading for thirty years. She may not be the final Kwisatz Haderach of the Bene GOPserit's not-so secret breeding program. But she's close.

The addle-brained god-fearing "everyman" of action. One who believes if we get ourselves right with god; IE: blame the ungodly for our problems, it's okay to take no responsibility for our OWN actions. By default OUR actions are sanctified by god. Bad wars. Deficit spending. The massive gulf between rich and poor? It's becuase god is angry with the gays.

See here is the GOP conundrum. We all know it's simple fact the GOP is incapable of governing in it's present incarnation. We have SEEN it. They had it all. The executive. The Judiciary. The legislative. And they couldn't even push through their OWN agendas. What did they get done? A war. A disastrous war run by incompetents that is a leading contributor to our potential economic collapse.

Thirty years of whipping up the hate over cultural issues produces an electorate unwilling and not itellegent enough to make compromises on big problems. It produces politician incapable of resolving larger problems because they need to constantly drum up controversy and hate which drives people of experience and integrity out of the system. The ELITES as they like to call them. You know. SMART PEOPLE.

REALITY CHECK FOR CONSERVATIVES. Culture is driven in large part by the mysterious forces of history and there is nearly nothing they can do to prevent inhibit or rush cultural progress short of destroying the country. Certainly not to the degree they want to - they culture they want dies in 1919.

And. SCENE.

And that is what they have nearly done. The contradictory rhetorical distortions to the space time continuum the GOP has to make in order to convince the country none of this bullshit is their fault only creates MORE divisiveness and lessens the likelihood they will EVER fix anything. You have to admit to mistakes in order to fix them.

For fuck sake these people are cop opting the CHANGE mantra without changing a god damn thing except the lingerie. And they think people will buy it? Well. They just might.
posted by tkchrist at 11:01 AM on October 24, 2008 [30 favorites]


cop opting = co opting
posted by tkchrist at 11:04 AM on October 24, 2008


But make-up doesn't, if reapplied often enough.

Who made more money than any other individual in the McCain-Palin campaign for the first two weeks of October? Palin's make-up artist -- $22,800 for two-weeks!

Wasn't there something said about lipstick and pigs?


Please. As much as there is legitimate to hate on McCain and Palin over this warddrobe stuff, acting her makeup-artist or hair stylist isn't. A good makeup artist (and this one did win an emmy last year) and a good hairstylist are worth their weight in gold considering that Palin is front of cameras constantly and needs to look her best at all possible times. Her hair style has created a huge craze - and it's a great look for her - and it's not easy to take care of it. There's a point where attacking the McCain/Palin/RNC hypocracy starts being legitimate and starts looking sexist. And why? Because we care more about how women look than men and we tend to enjoy attacking how a woman looks.

Stick with attacking her warddrobe choices and the fact that at least one RNC purchase (at Artelier in NYC) can't be accounted for by the original retailer. It makes more sense.
posted by Stynxno at 11:09 AM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Progressives - Firedoglake/netroots/secularists/atheists
Democrats - Pretty much as they are now.
Libertarian republicans - small 'r' intentional
Theocratic Republicans/War Party - Today's ignorant Hannity/Rove/Bush/McCain capital 'R' Republicans


I think this needs some alteration:

Liberal Party - including Firedoglake/netroots/secularists/atheists/MoveOn/Socialist Lighweights. Autocratically social liberals, economic lefties - Lead by Chomskyistas

Democrats - including the Radical Center/Old Line Republicans/Blue Dogs - A merger of what Centerist Democrats have become and what Republicans once were. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Lead by the Clinton Machine

Libertarians - What Republican Ideologues have become - fake cover name for Heritage Foundation NeoCons. In reality socially conservative while professing to be social liberals, in reality economic authoritarians while professing economic Liberalism. Lead by a race of Rovian lizard people.

Theocratic Rightists - Christian Coalition. Socially draconian, economically oblivious. Lead by Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ until the rapture ends the 6000 year old fiction called Earth.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:10 AM on October 24, 2008 [7 favorites]


What's the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?

I pit bull can't afford $22,800 to get makeup applied.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:11 AM on October 24, 2008 [13 favorites]


This is like saying if New Kids on the Block waited 4 years to follow up Hangin' Tough they could have made Pet Sounds.

Quoted for general humor value.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:12 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Palin as hockey grandma in 8 years...lots of makeup to botox away what time will do...look at McCain and you will note that time is not kind to people...ask my wife about me.
posted by Postroad at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Sort of off-topic but not too much: John McCain's brother has got himself in a bit of trouble and now his cell phone number is all over the internet.
posted by ob at 11:19 AM on October 24, 2008


The fact after Spitzer went nuts, I could legitimately say "hey, I didn't vote for him," was just gravy.

I gotta say, in addition to protesting the two party system*, it is pretty nice to know that your vote probably won't put a bad politician in office.

* Since access to safe and legal abortions is the top issue I consider every election, my vote is pretty much locked down by Democrats. Part of me kinda hates that. I sincerely hope we see more parties in future elections, rather than diversity among the two major parties. You really can't tell me that Colin Powell and Sarah Palin hold the same political beliefs, so why the hell are they in the same party?
posted by giraffe at 11:24 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Ooh, punditfilter!

Sarah Palin's big weakness is in interviews where she fumbles on questions she doesn't know the answer to.

If she worked for the next four years on how to handle this specific situation, and by this I don't mean knowing more stuff but instead having a simple, comforting response when she doesn't know the answer, she would be a much stronger candidate.

If I were a GOP strategist or publicist trying to position her for a run in 2012, I would make this one defect in her skills a top priority. Here's the coaching session:

When you don't know the answer, don't obviously BS and don't ramble, just say the following: "you know, that's a good question, and:

a. ... it reminds me of a story. .
b. ... many people feel the same way, which is why .
c. ... I think the real issue is .

I'll take my consulting fees in this currency, thank you.

posted by zippy at 11:27 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


darn that preview button, and gosh darn those angle brackets, you betcha

"you know, that's a good question, and:

a. ... it reminds me of a story. [insert heartwarming personal anecdote].
b. ... many people feel the same way, which is why [broadly popular party plank].
c. ... I think the real issue is [thing that bugs the party faithful, and what I'd do to fix it].
posted by zippy at 11:29 AM on October 24, 2008


I am thankful for her. The southern accent has taken a beating for years, particularly the last eight years, as the accent of misguided, bible thumping, know-nothing morons. Let some other accent take a bit of that heat for a while.
posted by gordie at 11:32 AM on October 24, 2008 [13 favorites]


4 out of 10 saying she is not experienced enough (which the article states) doesn't translate into 6 out of 10 saying she is experienced.

I am genuinely confused. How is this not 6 out of 10 implicitly (or, depending on the wording of the question, explicitly) saying she is indeed experienced enough?


Some people might have no opinion.

By your logic, if I took a poll asking, "Is Jaltcoh too inexperienced to be president?" and only 1% of respondents said "yes," I could fairly announce: "99% believe Jaltcoh is experienced enough to be president."
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:34 AM on October 24, 2008


Palin '12

First we might have "Plumber" '10
posted by drezdn at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2008


Let some other accent take a bit of that heat for a while.

I'm sad that I can only favorite this once, y'all.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:40 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


First we might have "Plumber" '10

On the plus side, we already know he's a liar. No surprises! Yes!
posted by giraffe at 11:41 AM on October 24, 2008


Oh...I though it was a joke or something when I saw that someone had a bumper sticker (on their SUV no less) that said PALIN2012.

Then again I did see another SUV with:
"Sarah Palin, you GO girl!"
written across the back window.
But I thought that was really funny regardless.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:41 AM on October 24, 2008


If you looked at anything below the surface and had even the most basic knowledge of economics, it turned out that Ron Paul was, in fact, some kind of nut.

You mean we can't go back to the Gold Standard?! Perhaps what I should have said was it's kind of sad when the only person who espouses your party's principals is the fringe candidate.
posted by MikeMc at 11:42 AM on October 24, 2008


It's not clear to me that Sarah Palin will be the nominee of the Republican party in 2012. As others have noted, she faces re-election in Alaska in 2010, and it is not certain that she will win. Even if she is politically viable in four years, it would be extremely unusual for her to be the next GOP presidential candidate. Since the founding of the Republican party in the 1850s, not once has the losing VP candidate gone on to become the party's presidential nominee in the following election. Only once has the losing VP ever even become the candidate - Bob Dole, Ford's running mate in the 1976 election, was the GOP nominee in 1996.

Here's a brief history of the most recent failed GOP VPs, and what they did after the election: 1948 VP Earl Warren (got appointed as Chief Justice of US Supreme Court); 1960 VP Henry Cabot Lodge (won the 1964 New Hampshire GOP primary, but that's about it); 1964 VP William Miller (retired from politics); 1976 VP Bob Dole (ran as GOP nominee in 1996); 1992 VP Dan Quayle (hahahaha); 1996 VP Jack Kemp (retired from politics).

Of course, history is not binding on Gov. Palin, but I think it shows that the GOP will not simply treat her as heir apparent. She will face significant resistance from within her own party in the 2012 primaries. Just from within the religious conservative wing of the party, she will face competition from Mike Huckabee and Bobby Jindal (who's already visiting Iowa). On top of that, she'll have to face someone from the businessman / Mr. Moneybags side of the party, currently represented by Mitt Romney. Toss in a neocon/homeland security candidate and an earnest libertarian, and who knows.
posted by thewittyname at 11:43 AM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


"she's got star power"

If by "star power" you mean, drove the McCain ticket into the ground, then I agree.


I see her star power more like "If you activate her by tilting her on her side, everyone will forget how badly you're doing and like you for a short while. After that, though, if you still suck, everyone will notice, you'll drop down into the red, and get you'll get boo'd off stage."

She's really the fake plastic guitar of candidates. fun to play with, sure, but limited in options and only able to play those certain songs in her repertoire.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:48 AM on October 24, 2008 [11 favorites]


she's got star power and unless she does something really dumb, we're stuck with her for a long time
posted by pyramid termite at 1:00 PM on October 24


I disagree. The boom time of evangelical christianity dovetailed with the Reagan/deficit spending driven boom in the 80's and 90's, and again in the 2000's. But that's all coming to an end now. We will see just how deep their faith runs when they live through the depression brought on by their evangelical president.

What worries me isn't Pail, because she's a dummy. What worries me is Huckabee, whose success in the primaries demonstrated how the entire evangelic wing of the republican party is one or two charismatic leaders away from a full-fledged nationalistic force. Huckabee ran on what amounts to an extreme socialist platform, and they ate it up. It shows that they are more interested in following a leader than any particular set of principles.
posted by Pastabagel at 11:49 AM on October 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


Limited government: Nonsense.
Palin: dumb.
Republican Party: Over.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:49 AM on October 24, 2008


For the 2008 election, there were 21 debates for the Republican primary.

Twenty. One. Debates.

A lot of them were smaller and a few weren't even televised but generously, assume the plausible candidates would have to attend at least nine or ten of those. Anyone thinking that Palin has a chance against the most obvious competitors (Romney, Huckabee) plus some likely additional challengers (Pawlenty, Barbour, Jindal) in that kind of environment is delusional.

In reality, and I'm not joking about this at all, the real reason Palin isn't running for president in 2012 is because she would have to give up the seven-figure contract she'ss have signed with Fox News to host a show following her defeat in the 2010 governor's race.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 11:51 AM on October 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


A lot can happen in four years, but right now it looks like being the Republican party nominee in 2012 is going to be like being the Whig nominee in 1856.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:52 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


And I know I harp on this a lot, but the deafeatism from the left is truly baffling sometimes. Evangelicals? Palin? An animatronic squirrel? Any one of them can probably win Kansas, Nebraska, Utah, and Idaho in 2012, but so what? The map looks like this this morning and it will probably look that way again in 2012.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:56 AM on October 24, 2008


I was going to link to that russian music video but someone beat me to it.

Oh and speaking of crazy McCain supporters.

See here is the GOP conundrum. We all know it's simple fact the GOP is incapable of governing in it's present incarnation. We have SEEN it. They had it all. The executive. The Judiciary. The legislative. And they couldn't even push through their OWN agendas. What did they get done? A war. A disastrous war run by incompetents that is a leading contributor to our potential economic collapse.

Uh, potential?
posted by delmoi at 11:58 AM on October 24, 2008


By the way, do you guys know the single person who deserves the most credit for that map, and the House and Senate numbers above it? Howard Dean and his 50-state strategy.
posted by drjimmy11 at 12:01 PM on October 24, 2008 [14 favorites]


Seems to me that a lot of people are forgetting something: While 4 years may be a long time for Palin to practice and improve, it's also a long time in which she might well kill her chances entirely. Not to mention that even if she were still a viable candidate in 2012, her opponents (in both parties) would have had 4 years to prepare their anti-Palin strategies.
posted by caution live frogs at 12:05 PM on October 24, 2008


I dunno. I am no Sarah Palin fan, but McCain's crowds went from 300 people to 30,000... and they're still big crowds.

The evangelical base might not be a majority, but it's the biggest plurality the Republican party has, and even if they lose in spectacular fashion this time, that won't change any time soon.

I also don't buy that she has to be re-elected in Alaska, or even finish her term to be viable in today's market. She could resign tomorrow, spend three years on television hosting some Fox and Friends thing, and voters would be "more comfortable" with her by 2012.

Again: none of this should be construed as Palin-positive. I think she's going to be a "name" in the party for awhile, and if she wants to run, she will.
posted by rokusan at 12:05 PM on October 24, 2008


My friends, I just want to come right out right now and admit to something. This is not easy to admit to, my friends, but it is the truth and I think it should be said. I am an elitist. es, it's true. I'm also pretty liberal most of the time, but my liberal vision of every person being equal regardless of their skin color or birth or level of education comes to a quite hypocritical limit and I want to set the record strait and admit it up front right here and now.

Yes, I feel, that while everyone is equal and deserves the same rights and privileges. While I think that everyone should have the same shot and that wealth really does do better if it's spread around more equally regardless of someone's birthright and status, I still think that someone should not do a job if they aren't qualified to do that job. I don't let my auto mechanic work on my teeth, nor vice versa. I don't get my kid's child care provider do my taxes and I'm pretty sure the guy that did help us with our taxes would not do well with my active toddler.

Tough, go-getting hockey moms are great! They are great for making sure that teachers stay engaged in the classroom. They are great for making sure that all the kids on the little league team get a chance to play and have a good time. They are great for making sure that the Haloween Carnival goes off without a hitch and that the school cafeteria doesn't serve the same thing over and over. With a little education and motivation a go-getting hockey mom could be a great city council person or even mayor. With legislative and executive experience, she could move up to bgger and better things, but, and here goes the hypocritical elitism part, she really shouldn't move on up until she's got that experience firmly nailed down. Making sure that the team's trophies have all the names spelled right for the big post-playoff pizza party and awards night is really not enough qualification for being handed the nuclear launch codes or being entrusted with oversite of a 14 trillion dollar budget.

"But Obama is only a two-year Senate veteran.." I can already hear you saying this, my friends, and it's certainly true, but Mr. Obama has some major differences. Obama has had national experience and exposure. Prior to that he worked in a state-wide capacity, this is more akin to where Ms. Palin is now starting to reach in her career, though his state was one that actually had people in it. Before that he had legal experience. Before that he was in grad school getting a degree. Before that he was a community organizer doin', as Palin put it, similar work to what she did briefly as mayor of Wasilla. Before that he was doing political organizing. Before that he was a college student working on and focusing on finishing a degree, something that Palin clearly was not doing as she bounced around and dabbled in university level education. Before that he was gaining valuable overseas experience, something that Palin still has yet to do and even disdains as an elitist activity (personally I've never had any money, but I've used every opportunity at my disposure to travel). So you see, he's well rounded, experienced in ways that it would take Palin years to acchieve.

So, I am clearly, my friends, a horrible and unrepentant elitist.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2008 [14 favorites]


As for her needing to be re-elected in Alaska, first: you'd have thought that losing to a dead guy, in red-state Missouri, would have kept Ashcroft from being taken seriously, but he was our AG for what, three four years?
posted by notsnot at 12:10 PM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


Palin: dumb.
Republican Party: Over.


Obama's polling ahead of McPalin today in Georgia.
In Georgia. Outlier or not, how many would've checked the "true" box next to this question on, say, January 1st: "Barack Obama will poll ahead of the GOP nominee in Georgia on October 24."

I'd really worried there was a common denominator so low in American politics that this Palin gambit would somehow work. My heartfelt thanks from Canuckistan, America, for exceeding my expectations for the first time in a generation.

Only thing left to worry about is the outright theft potential of them voting machines . . .
posted by gompa at 12:11 PM on October 24, 2008


PeterMcDermott said: However, I'll happily run for president on behalf of the Marijuana Party in 2012. Thanks for the nomination.

When you win, can I be Secretary of Agriculture? Can I? Please!
posted by dejah420 at 12:14 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


It's too easy to underestimate the intelligence and cunning of the GOP. They are learning a recipe from the use of Sarah Palin as running-mate and you can be damn sure they won't make the same mistakes next time.
posted by furtive at 12:27 PM on October 24, 2008


My heartfelt thanks from Canuckistan, America, for exceeding my expectations for the first time in a generation.

And I'll say it yet again -- best part about getting Obama in office is that we can mock Canadians over their Conservative minority government over and over and over and over....
posted by dw at 12:28 PM on October 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


One other thing to consider: If Obama is the president, he probably won't have much competition for the nomination in 2012, meaning in some areas Dems will be able to easily crossover and vote for (hopefully) the republican candidate they least hate. Then again, some might break for Palin, seeing her as the easiest to beat (ideally, no one would do this as it can backfire).
posted by drezdn at 12:29 PM on October 24, 2008


As for her needing to be re-elected in Alaska, first: you'd have thought that losing to a dead guy, in red-state Missouri, would have kept Ashcroft from being taken seriously, but he was our AG for what, three four years?

You know what's most sad about that? Now, after 8 years of the Bush admin. Ashcroft looks like a rational, reasonable choice.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:30 PM on October 24, 2008 [5 favorites]


Only once has the losing VP ever even become the candidate - Bob Dole

Let us not forget Richard Milhous Nixon.
Lost VP - 1960
President - 1968
posted by netbros at 12:31 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


By the way, do you guys know the single person who deserves the most credit for that map, and the House and Senate numbers above it? Howard Dean and his 50-state strategy.

Well, part of the credit. This has also been about the Dems applying the lessons of Rove -- microtargeting constituencies and going after McCain's strengths.

Win or lose, Obama has run one of the greatest political campaigns in the history of politics. I can't think of one in this nation's history that's run so well and been so disciplined.
posted by dw at 12:32 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


She'll get a show on FOX. At which point she'll be much too drunk and happy on her own popularity to run for office.

My theory is that Palin joined the ticket knowing she'd get beaten up and likely sink the ticket. But she also knew she could hog the media spotlight and later leverage that to move up the beauty queen ladder. I think she always considered being Governor as a stepping stone, but not for political office.

Sarah Palin is a beauty queen. Beauty queens don't want to be president, because presidents have to do real work and they get beaten up by journalists. She wants the spotlight, and that's what she'll go for. Honestly, which do you think Palin would prefer -

- Sarah Palin, President of the United States
- Sarah Palin, host of the Sarah Palin Show

I think she loved every second of her time on SNL. I think that's what she wants. Leader of the free world? Not so much.
posted by Ragma at 12:32 PM on October 24, 2008 [10 favorites]


I could definitely see Palin as a Fox commentator, but it really wouldn't help her run for the presidency (at least considering the audience size).
posted by drezdn at 12:34 PM on October 24, 2008


And I'll say it yet again -- best part about getting Obama in office is that we can mock Canadians over their Conservative minority government over and over and over and over....

. . . and still I'll wake up tomorrow morning in a country where you can live a long and healthy life and never once experience the strange sensation of being presented with a bill on departure from an emergency room.

/pissing contest

posted by gompa at 12:34 PM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


Let us not forget Richard Milhous Nixon.
Lost VP - 1960
President - 1968


No, Nixon was VP under Eisenhower. He lost running for president in 1960.

The only person since 1900* to have first been a losing VP then a winning president was FDR. He was the Dem VP nominee under Cox in 1920, then (of course) won in 1932.

Also, he wasn't paralyzed in 1920; he contracted polio in 1921.

* - Before 1900 a few people received electoral votes for VP then later came back to be president later, notably John Tyler and Andrew Johnson, though in both cases they were elected as vice-presidents and then succeeded deceased presidents.
posted by dw at 12:38 PM on October 24, 2008


boo_radley : Evangelicals would elect a potato with a "pro-life" sticker slapped on it.

Back in 1988, evangelicals helped elect an "interdenominational fundamentalist" potatoe with a "pro-life" sticker slapped on it.
posted by iviken at 12:38 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


When you win, can I be Secretary of Agriculture?

What was your stance on stem cell horticulture again? Because I'm not having none of those granola-eating, sandal-wearing, 'kind'-smoking hippies in my cabinet. When it comes to cannabis, my government is going for vigorous growth in bud yield and thc content. At a time like this, the economic salvation of the western world is depending on us to raise our productivity, and by God we intend to do it.

Any pinko concerns about whether it was grown in bat guano rather than 'chemicals' have got no place under a McDermott presidency.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:40 PM on October 24, 2008


. . . and still I'll wake up tomorrow morning in a country where you can live a long and healthy life and never once experience the strange sensation of being presented with a bill on departure from an emergency room.

I don't get a bill on departing from the ER; it comes a month later after they file with insurance! Nyah nyah!

posted by dw at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2008


You heard it here first, the path to the Palin presidency runs through "Dancing with the Stars."

She loses to the partner from Psych though.
posted by drezdn at 12:46 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


As for her needing to be re-elected in Alaska, first: you'd have thought that losing to a dead guy, in red-state Missouri, would have kept Ashcroft from being taken seriously, but he was our AG for what, three four years?

Being appointed AG after losing to a Democrat is one thing. But losing your own primary or even being forcefully ejected from the state party for ethics violations (perhaps I appreciate irony too much) is a much deeper wound to recover from. If experience is a problem, being a one term governor who excited the base to vote against her wouldn't help matters.
posted by pwnguin at 12:47 PM on October 24, 2008


best part about getting Obama in office is that we can mock Canadians over their Conservative minority government over and over and over and over....

A young boy in the U.S. learned about Canada and its Parliamentary system one day at school. He went home to talk to his father about it, since he knew his Dad was really awesome when it came to politics.

"Dad," he asked, "what are the Canadian Federal Liberals?"

"Well son," his Dad replied, "they're just like our Democrats, but further to the left."

The young boy absorbed this. "Dad," he asked again, "what are the Canadian Conservatives?"

"Well son," his Dad replied, "they're just like our Democrats, but further to the left."
posted by illiad at 12:53 PM on October 24, 2008 [14 favorites]


http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/10/24/no-way-palin-in-2012.aspx
posted by Postroad at 12:54 PM on October 24, 2008


Let us not forget Richard Milhous Nixon.
Lost VP - 1960
President - 1968


Let us not forget the real Richard Milhous Nixon:

1937-1942 - worked as successful attorney - became partner in Firm after only one year of practice
1942-1946 - decorated Naval officer
Won House 1946 (vs. 7 term incumbent!)
Won House reelection 1948
Won Senate 1950 (defeating or rather destroyed the career of a 3 term Rep. who was popular enough to oust the popular incumbent Dem. in the primary)
Won VP 1952
Won VP 1956
Lost Presidency 1960 by the slimest margin possible in a dirty campaign on both sides
Lost Governor 1962 by a slim margin
1962-1968 - stayed active in the political realm, running campaigns nationwide, winning friends, making allies, remaking his image, and creating alliances
1968 - ran against a flailing, failing, collapsing Dem. Party and won
posted by Pollomacho at 12:54 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Is this the new election thread? I'm here for the new election thread.
posted by lunit at 12:55 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


How about Palin/Bachman 2012? (No, it's not a link to the Onion.)
posted by rtha at 12:55 PM on October 24, 2008


MikeMc writes "Well, that seemed to be the Ron Paul message and we see how that worked out for him. How far off track has the GOP gone when a man that espouses the bedrock principals of his party is written of as some kind of nut?"

Paul is a libertarian, and a fairly strict right-wing one. He's a Republican, because independents and third parties don't do so well in local elections in Texas, although he's not a typical Republican. He previously ran for president as a Libertarian. The party is not really going to support someone like that. He's good on sticking to his principles, but he's not so good at being a leader, in the sense that a leader has to do more than stick to principles. For example, a good leader has to know how to be diplomatic and negotiate, as well as compromise.
posted by krinklyfig at 12:57 PM on October 24, 2008


Bachmann won't survive this election cycle, but I suppose they could form the ideal ticket for the "votes with the lower brain" party.
posted by graventy at 1:09 PM on October 24, 2008


Stynxno writes "There's a point where attacking the McCain/Palin/RNC hypocracy starts being legitimate and starts looking sexist. And why? Because we care more about how women look than men and we tend to enjoy attacking how a woman looks."

So, the $10,000+/mo. cost is justified?

How does this fit in with the complaints about John Edwards' $400 haircut? Is he less worthy of such pampering, because he's a man? Wasn't a lot of the focus on him about his good looks?

Not trying to troll, seriously. I'm just wondering how a so-called regular hockey mom can have a clothing and makeup budget that is multiples of what any real family with a hockey mom earns in a year. From what I understand, Michelle Obama shops at the Gap, which is more in line with a regular person's budget. Is she being foolish, considering "we care more about how women look than men and we tend to enjoy attacking how a woman looks"?
posted by krinklyfig at 1:09 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


There's a point where attacking the McCain/Palin/RNC hypocracy starts being legitimate and starts looking sexist. And why? Because we care more about how women look than men and we tend to enjoy attacking how a woman looks.

The right is playing the "sexism" card, but given how much time they spent shrieking and wailing over John Edwards' $400 haircut, I don't think they have a leg to stand on. They spent more on Palin's appearance than their faux Joe the Plumber makes in THREE YEARS, yet the Democrats are elitists?
posted by OolooKitty at 1:12 PM on October 24, 2008


Uh, what krinklyfig said.
posted by OolooKitty at 1:13 PM on October 24, 2008


rtha writes "How about Palin/Bachman 2012? (No, it's not a link to the Onion.)"

Wow, the fancy fascist ticket!
posted by krinklyfig at 1:13 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


The right is playing the "sexism" card, but given how much time they spent shrieking and wailing over John Edwards' $400 haircut, I don't think they have a leg to stand on.

Snort. Edwards was a Democrat, see? Different rules. He got caught in an affair and is now politically dead. If he had been a Republican, why, he could be running for President!
posted by bitmage at 1:19 PM on October 24, 2008


Is this the new longthread? Because if it is, I want a piece of it. This is my piece of it.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:33 PM on October 24, 2008


Krinklyfig: Paul is a libertarian, and a fairly strict right-wing one
He's only libertarian on economic issues. On social issues, he's in favor of government intrusion. He is also crazy.
posted by adamrice at 1:41 PM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


This is easily preventable. Have her run for President in 2013. The real election will be over before she realizes she was tricked.
posted by snofoam at 1:45 PM on October 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


Did someone say talking point Markov generator?
posted by designbot at 1:54 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


I'd never vote for Edwards for anything after hearing details about his affair and watching how he handled that, more specifically. But the reason for the $400 payments for a haircut was that the barber lost business for the rest of the day--Edwards was in effect making it up to the barber. Just wanted to point that out.
posted by raysmj at 1:55 PM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]



Wow, the fancy fascist ticket!


I'm envisioning a clothing line. Fancy Fascist Fashion. It'll be full of those star wars outfits.
posted by cashman at 2:03 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Fuck me in the ass with a rusty shovel that was just used to clean the cage of an elderly elephant suffering from dysentery.

I was thinking exactly the same thing, but in a different context.
posted by philip-random at 2:11 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


TheBudgetFashionista took a "Sarah Palin wardrobe challenge", and put together a campaign ready wardrobe for less than $2500.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:25 PM on October 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


How about Palin/Bachman 2012? (No, it's not a link to the Onion.)

From an ad on the Commentary site: "RENEW your subscription online and get our exclusive WORLD TERRORISM WALL MAP for FREE"

For, like, the kids' bedroom I guess.
posted by Camofrog at 2:42 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


So, the $10,000+/mo. cost is justified?

Yeah it is. When you're paying for a star makeup artist, you do get what you pay for. Not only does the makeup have to look good, it also has to handle the environment well. That means it has to last under the lights, deal with sweat and grime, and keep her looking refreshed at all times. Since she is casted as the "attractive one", she has to look the part which means she can't look old or tired or worn out. The RNC knows this so they hired the makeup artist responsible to handle the makeup on Dancing with the Stars. I would say that Palin's makeup has to stand up to the same level and type of challenges that the people on that show had to put up with.

How does this fit in with the complaints about John Edwards' $400 haircut? Is he less worthy of such pampering, because he's a man? Wasn't a lot of the focus on him about his good looks?

To me, the complaints about Edwards weren't really justified but they served the purpose of the Clinton and Obama camps when it comes to showing Edwards as being out of touch and hypocritical. Edwards got noticed for his looks and he knew it. A $400 dollar haircut was a maintence cost, in my mind. But it was an "okay" attack because men are viewed as not needing that high of a maintence cost associated with their looks (which is bullshit but that's the prevailing wisdom). But the difference with Palin is, since she's a woman who is being marketed heavily on her looks, having a huge makeup and hair expense is required. It's part of her uniform and it's something that any female politician in her shoes would have to use. I think that Hillary Clinton, if she was the current democratic nominee, would have the same kind of makeup requirement that Palin does and would be spending a large amount of money on just maintaining her looks. Palin isn't allowed to let her hair down or look unrefined which is something the male candidates are allowed.

From what I understand, Michelle Obama shops at the Gap, which is more in line with a regular person's budget. Is she being foolish, considering "we care more about how women look than men and we tend to enjoy attacking how a woman looks"?

Well, besides the fact that the Gap is a crap store and that no one should shop their for their clothing, Michelle Obama isn't on the ticket. She's not being elected to office but Palin is. I personally think attacking the amount of money the RNC spent on Palin's clothing is completely legitimate for the reason you mentioned - it's hypocritical for a self-described hockey mom and "regular person" to spend 150,000 on clothes in 2 months. However, when you start bringing up fees that I consider just normal maintence fees (hair/makeup) for her to merely maintain her apperance in public, you've stopped attacking the hypocracy and started attacking Palin for her having to act the way the public demands her too. And that, in my mind, is entering sexism. A better arguement is less attacking her for spending 20k on makeup in October but attacking the reason why she, or any woman in her position, would feel like they HAD to spend that much on makeup. A lot of this has to do with how she is marketed but a lot also has to do with her being a woman. If Hilliary had bags under her eyes at her rallies, it would hurt her - and that's a ridiculous truth about our 21st century reality.
posted by Stynxno at 2:43 PM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


This is the United States of America we're talking about, and maybe I'm too cynical about what face is put on the presidency, like maybe it really doesn't matter, like this isn't a true democracy, I once posted on my now-defunct LiveJournal pages an ersatz bumper sticker and I still think I'm more in tune with What the People Want than the Republicans--and I'm still thinking that to restore faith in the process, Republicans should be sitting this one out, fielding no candidate, sorry we were wrong, really we're sorry, but as it is Krusty The Clown could be president, and it just wouldn't make any difference
posted by Restless Day at 2:43 PM on October 24, 2008


Palin: 'I Don't Know' If Abortion Clinic Bombers Are Terrorists
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 2:47 PM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


McCain's crowds went from 300 people to 30,000

McCain/Palin crowds, maybe, but McCain-only "crowds" range from 15 people to claiming a crowd of 25,000 in a 16,000-capacity building.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:48 PM on October 24, 2008


drjimmy11: By the way, do you guys know the single person who deserves the most credit for that map, and the House and Senate numbers above it? Howard Dean and his 50-state strategy.

gompa: Obama's polling ahead of McPalin today in Georgia. In Georgia. Outlier or not, how many would've checked the "true" box next to this question on, say, January 1st: "Barack Obama will poll ahead of the GOP nominee in Georgia on October 24."

You know. For about 8 years now I've been arguing that "Fuck the South" and the "Urban Archipelago" approaches to politics are divisive, elitist, ignorant of the potentials for liberal activism, and in the end, a certain ticket for further marginalization and electoral losses.

I told you so.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 2:50 PM on October 24, 2008


cybercoitus interruptus: Palin: 'I Don't Know' If Abortion Clinic Bombers Are Terrorists
One of weirdest parts of this whole campaign is the number of times one thinks " this can't get any worse. If this was fiction, no-one would believe it possible". And yet here we go again: here we see Palin equivocating on whether those that bomb abortion clinics are in fact terrorists. Unbelievable!

Perhaps her hairdresser should take over for a while.
posted by vac2003 at 3:01 PM on October 24, 2008


Watching the news today, there were several GOP operatives, including Lieberman, pushing the "I don't believe the polls" "The polls must be wrong, the American people have faith in John McCain" claptrap, which is genuinely scary. I may just be a cynic - okay, definitely - but openly announcing your intention to steal the election ahead of time is a tad unsettling. On to the Palin topic...

But the difference with Palin is, since she's a woman who is being marketed heavily on her looks, having a huge makeup and hair expense is required. It's part of her uniform and it's something that any female politician in her shoes would have to use.

This is beyond disgusting. To even suggest that female politicians need to spend tens of thousands of dollars on make-up to be taken seriously... well, that is some utterly inscrutable level of stupid. And to suggest that Palin was helplessly dragged through Neiman Marcus and forced to spend money on outfits that "weren't her" or that somehow donating five-thousand-dollar jackets to charity after buying them with campaign money justifies the expense is downright absurd (though I do enjoy the image of a hobo sporting Palin's outfits). If that actually occurred, Palin is some combination of spineless, fake, and greedy.

Finally, apparently it's okay for you to observe that Palin is "being marketed heavily on her looks" but for people to disagree with you and state that this kind of spending is simply inappropriate, that appears to be sexist to you? Really? Objectifying female politicians, that's fine, but criticizing their six-digit misspending of campaign cash, oh, that's sexist, how dare you!

Believe it or not, there are hundreds of thousands of women out there that can put on their own makeup and buy clothes on a budget and look better and know more than Sarah Palin. That has nothing to do with sexism.
posted by mek at 3:03 PM on October 24, 2008 [11 favorites]


From cybercoitus interruptus' link:

Others who would want to engage in harming in innocent Americans or facilities, that uh, it would be unacceptable to...I don't know if you're going to use the word 'terrorist' there.

When you are using explosives to murder people and destroy property, all for the purposes of inflicting fear in a group who don't subscribe to your ideological beliefs? Yeah we do have a word for that. We call it "terrorism".

Just because you agree with the people breaking the law doesn't make it anything other than a tactic used to cause terror in a population.
posted by quin at 3:04 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


They should have spent the $20,000 on makeup for McCain.
posted by snofoam at 3:20 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Or, they could have spent the $20,000 making Ashley Todd's wounds look more realistic.
posted by snofoam at 3:23 PM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


They should have spent the $20,000 on makeup for McCain.

McCain campaign paid 3 makeup artists a total of $52,000 over 6 weeks
"The McCain-Palin campaign paid Amy Strozzi, the GOP vice presidential nominee's traveling makeup artist, $22,800 for the first two weeks of October, according to records filed with the Federal Election Commission last night. Strozzi received $13,200 for her work in September.

Records show McCain's makeup artist, Tifanie White, received $8,512 in September and $7,368 during the first two weeks of October.

The Republican National Committee paid a third makeup artist, Tracy Thorp, $980 for work in September.

In total, that's an expense of $52,000 for makeup artists during a six-week period beginning Sept. 1.

Ben Porritt, a spokesman for McCain-Palin, declined to discuss the makeup expenses. 'Our campaign is focused on talking about the issues,' he said."
BTW -- they also have incurred expenses for Palin's stylist to travel with the campaign.

I suspect that there are a lot of lower-cost alternatives for styling and makeup that could have been arranged.
posted by ericb at 3:50 PM on October 24, 2008


To be fair, the kind of makeup or makeover you need for TV is different than sort of makeup you need for the office. Any candidate who would take that risk is an idiot. See: Richard Nixon in the first televised presidential debate. He actually refused makeup on the grounds that it would be unmanly or something (although he did use a product called Lazy Shave or something to that effect, which was supposed to hide five o' clock shadow).

I would presume that the makeup expenses are higher for reasons outside of the makeup and labor alone, probably something more akin to the difficulty of working with a VP candidate, time taken away from normal business, etc. On the other hand, I don't think the expenses should be considered off-the-table in re to examination.

The clothing expenses, by contract, just seem completely unforgivable and comically hypocritical. I'm most thankful, nonetheless, for the "comically" part.
posted by raysmj at 4:05 PM on October 24, 2008


Bible Spice is going to have a hard enough time getting re-elected as Gov.

She is the anti-Cinderella heading back to AK without her pretty things just in time for the long cold dark winter.

btw, If she ran for the top spot her ties to the AIP would be front and center...
posted by edgeways at 4:32 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]



Fuck me in the ass with a rusty shovel that was just used to clean the cage of an elderly elephant suffering from dysentery.


Isn't that what just happened the last eight years?
posted by edgeways at 4:34 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


God, I'm tired of hearing about Sarah Palin. Of course, at least we're not talking about Ann Coulter anymore.
posted by jonmc at 4:41 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


casting my vote for Palin as media personality in 5...4...3...
posted by fingers_of_fire at 5:07 PM on October 24, 2008


First of all, for background: In my optimistic yet Schadenfreudic fantasy, November 5th will be the beginning of the effective end of the bizarre coalition that is the modern Republican Party. There will still of course be a "Republican Party", and it will of course win far more Congressional seats than it should in any sane world, but it will be in shambles, internally acrimonious, disunified, and wielding a shadow of its former power. This will be for the next decade or so.

By the time the next presidential elections run around, the "Batshit Crazy Hateful Christian Extremist" wing will be the main force in what's left of the party, wielding even more power (relatively speaking, within the party) than they do today, since most of the other factions will be splintering off, disgusted.

Now, with that background said:
If Bobby Jindal can survive his political struggles in Baton Rouge, then he may be a better choice for the GOP than Palin.
What is left of the Republican Party will not stomach nominating a negro.
Romney could try again and do well if Obama can't right the economic ship.
What is left of the Republican Party will not stomach nominating a Mormon.
If Rossi wins up here I can see the GOP drafting him as the "next Dubya" -- his lack of experience doesn't seem to be hurting him.
What is left of the Republican Party will not stomach nominating someone who believes that abortion in cases of rape and incest is acceptable.
And Lindsey Graham I think has the right sort of mix of experience and bona fides to be a compromise candidate for the warring GOP factions.
What is left of the Republican Party will not stomach nominating an obviously closeted homosexual.

I am aware that Bobby Jindal is not African-American. And I am willing to entertain the theoretical possibility that Lindsey Graham is not gay.
posted by Flunkie at 5:14 PM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


And I am willing to entertain the theoretical possibility that Lindsey Graham is not gay.

I am also willing to entertain this possibility. If by "not gay" you mean "hugs his knees and weeps at the thought of putting his winkle inside the dirty icky hoo-hoo of his wife but does so out a sense of duty to god. And as long as a copy of International Male is laying next to the bed."
posted by tkchrist at 5:25 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


And I'll say it yet again -- best part about getting Obama in office is that we can mock Canadians over their Conservative minority government over and over and over and over....

And I'll say it yet again: Canadian Conservatives = American Democrats. "Conservative" up north doesn't mean what it does down south.

This is beyond disgusting. To even suggest that female politicians need to spend tens of thousands of dollars on make-up to be taken seriously... well, that is some utterly inscrutable level of stupid.

I would humbly suggest that heavy makeup has become so normalized on the public faces of women that if you saw an un-madeup female politician's face you might be in for a shock. Seriously. Or even, say, Hilary Clinton without the eye surgery and botox, let alone the makeup. This, sadly, is what women are expected, even required, to do when under such intense public scrutiny. We're not supposed to ever look aged, or tired, or gray-haired.
posted by jokeefe at 5:25 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


Palin isn't running for president in 2012 is because she would have to give up the seven-figure contract she'ss have signed with Fox News to host a show following her defeat in the 2010 governor's race.
Another part of my optimistic yet Schadenfreudic fantasy: Fox News will not be able to afford seven-figure contracts.
posted by Flunkie at 5:34 PM on October 24, 2008


I am also willing to entertain this possibility. If by "not gay" you mean "hugs his knees and weeps at the thought of putting his winkle inside the dirty icky hoo-hoo of his wife but does so out a sense of duty to god.
Lindsey Graham is unmarried.
posted by Flunkie at 5:43 PM on October 24, 2008


Damn I didn't realize other people thought Lindsay Graham was gay, too!! I mean, c'mon, helloooooo, GAY.
posted by brain cloud at 5:49 PM on October 24, 2008


To me, the complaints about Edwards weren't really justified but they served the purpose of the Clinton and Obama camps when it comes to showing Edwards as being out of touch and hypocritical. Edwards got noticed for his looks and he knew it. A $400 dollar haircut was a maintence cost, in my mind. But it was an "okay" attack because men are viewed as not needing that high of a maintence cost associated with their looks (which is bullshit but that's the prevailing wisdom).

Edwards was attacked for being effeminate. It's also sexist. I realize that men have the advantage, so I'm not claiming it's the same thing as women face, but this is how men get judged for their sexuality and their appearance.

But the difference with Palin is, since she's a woman who is being marketed heavily on her looks, having a huge makeup and hair expense is required. It's part of her uniform and it's something that any female politician in her shoes would have to use.

Maybe if she weren't being marketed heavily on her looks?

I think that Hillary Clinton, if she was the current democratic nominee, would have the same kind of makeup requirement that Palin does and would be spending a large amount of money on just maintaining her looks.

But she's not being marketed heavily on her looks. I have doubts the bill would need to be that high.

Palin isn't allowed to let her hair down or look unrefined which is something the male candidates are allowed.

That's horseshit. It's excusable to play into sexist roles, but not to call them out on excessive spending, when they're running a populist campaign against elitism?

Well, besides the fact that the Gap is a crap store and that no one should shop their for their clothing

Some people consider being frugal more worthwhile than being vain.

Michelle Obama isn't on the ticket. She's not being elected to office but Palin is.

OK, so the first lady doesn't have to look good for the camera? You should tell that to Cindy McCain, who has no problem spending tons of cash for top designers for the campaign trail. It's her money, and that's fine. My point is that the image they're projecting is of a fashion plate with a blank check, not an everyday mom. Politics is not just about dressing to the nines. It's about symbolism. Some politicians make a point of buying cheap clothing so that they don't lose touch, or just to project that image, whatever, but you don't have to spend tons of cash to create the best image for your VP. She's supposed to be a maverick, right? She looks like a tool to me.

I personally think attacking the amount of money the RNC spent on Palin's clothing is completely legitimate for the reason you mentioned - it's hypocritical for a self-described hockey mom and "regular person" to spend 150,000 on clothes in 2 months. However, when you start bringing up fees that I consider just normal maintence fees (hair/makeup) for her to merely maintain her apperance in public, you've stopped attacking the hypocracy and started attacking Palin for her having to act the way the public demands her too. And that, in my mind, is entering sexism.

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics involved. I don't really need your litmus test, but if it makes you feel better ...

A better arguement is less attacking her for spending 20k on makeup in October but attacking the reason why she, or any woman in her position, would feel like they HAD to spend that much on makeup.

Yes, let's have such a conversation, and Sarah Palin can make a great, groundbreaking speech about feminism, one for the ages, much like Obama's speech on racism. I'm sure we'll come to see her as a poor victim for the tens of thousands of dollars spent on her hair and makeup, because she represents all women who have taken out mortgages on their makeup budgets in order to combat sexism. It happens all the time!

A lot of this has to do with how she is marketed but a lot also has to do with her being a woman. If Hilliary had bags under her eyes at her rallies, it would hurt her - and that's a ridiculous truth about our 21st century reality.

I think she'd try to make it as cheap as possible, if she thought it would be an issue otherwise. These things do come up if you toot your populist horn loud enough. Hillary isn't stupid.

I think the problem isn't so much the money, although it really is excessive, but the hypocrisy. They make a point of saying Obama's elitist, and they spend money like only the elite can do.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:49 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


jokeefe I definitely agree that makeup is sadly a non-negotiable... but there is a difference between makeup, and $20 000 of makeup.
posted by mek at 5:52 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


To me, the complaints about Edwards weren't really justified but they served the purpose of the Clinton and Obama camps when it comes to showing Edwards as being out of touch and hypocritical.
I guess maybe I didn't pay too much attention to the Edwards hair flap. It was the Clinton and Obama camps pushing this story? I thought that right wingers were pushing it.
posted by Flunkie at 5:59 PM on October 24, 2008


BTW, Stynxno, in case you didn't catch it, McCain's highest paid staffer is Palin's makeup artist.

I'm sure that a woman's makeup budget for tv would be higher than a regular person's, but the highest paid staffer? Seriously?
posted by krinklyfig at 6:03 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


potatoes have a long and sordid history
posted by five fresh fish at 6:15 PM on October 24, 2008


$20 000 of makeup.

maybe her makeup artist is Tom Savini.
posted by jonmc at 6:15 PM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


It's very hard following all the political threads these days without placeholders.
posted by Bookhouse at 6:18 PM on October 24, 2008


Sarah Palin is currently testifying to investigators about her alleged ethics violations. As governor of a state of about 700,000 people. She's been a candidate barely 3 months and has already made one horrifying, hair-tearing gaffe after another. She's cited as the reason why one intelligent conservative after the next is voting Democrat. She's managed to tank McCain's campaign. And you think she's going to make it out of the primaries?

She may be aggressive, but so is the elderly drunk who lives down the street from me. Even surrounded by the best and brightest, you couldn't make a viable candidate out of someone who lacks sophistication, tact and intelligence - you could coach her just before a debate, demanding all sorts of narrow guidelines from the moderator, but that still won't stop her from candidly stating that she doesn't know if OB-GYN clinic bombers are terrorists. You could make Sarah Palin live on an island for the next four years, being taught by some conservative kung-fu master who teaches her to walk on rice paper, carry a scalding cauldron with her bare forearms, evoke the memory of Ronald Reagan, day after night in the mountain temple. But within minutes of arriving on the mainland, she would still claim Democrats eat babies.

Palin in 2012? I'd welcome it, personally. If not for that grating, mom-from-Life With Louie accent.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:19 PM on October 24, 2008 [8 favorites]


It's very hard following all the political threads these days without placeholders.

Favorite each one and click this magical link.
posted by cillit bang at 6:31 PM on October 24, 2008


Marisa, favourited for the best laugh of the thread.
posted by jokeefe at 6:48 PM on October 24, 2008


Lindsey Graham is unmarried.

"To a woman" you mean.
posted by tkchrist at 7:06 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


if she did run in the presidential primary, she'd get much more misognynistic flak than Clinton did this time around.

The coverage of Palin actually has been quite sexist and sometimes misogynistic. The reason we're not noticing is that no one is really objecting. Her detractors obviously find plenty of other things wrong with her, and her supporters tend to promote her good looks and "traditional femininity" as a positive. Were I a serious, experienced female Republican politician, I'd be livid right now that my party was putting all its chips on a pretty lightweight and then dressing her like a rather inappropriate paper doll at the campaign's expense. But I'm not, so I can save myself that angst.

My point is, though, that she's not being taken very seriously. If she were being taken seriously, not only would there be far more widespread objections to the shallow caricature that is her portrayal by the campaign, she herself would insist on being covered as a serious candidate, talking about the issues, and getting the attention off her looks and her wardrobe. She's conspicuously not doing that - she's assenting to tokenism.
posted by Miko at 7:25 PM on October 24, 2008 [6 favorites]


Were I a serious, experienced female Republican politician, I'd be livid right now that my party was putting all its chips on a pretty lightweight
I think that "lightweight" is not appropriate here.

After all, it's actually the middle of the weight classes. Far too high.

She was a mini flyweight when she was on the Podunk town council.

Then got elected mayor of Podunk. Junior flyweight.

Then governor of Alaska? That's pretty impressive, regardless of the fact that it's, um, Alaska. I would say that bumped her all the way up to, oh, junior featherweight.

Then nominated as the Republican Party's Vice Presidential candidate? That in and of itself is worth a promotion to, say, junior lightweight.

Then she opened her mouth. Back down to about a junior bantamweight.

Sarah Palin is no "lightweight".
posted by Flunkie at 7:47 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Palin: 'I Don't Know' If Abortion Clinic Bombers Are Terrorists
That's because she's been palling around with them.
posted by bigbigdog at 8:11 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


btw, If she ran for the top spot her ties to the AIP would be front and center..

Everything would be top and center and there is a lot of stuff after only what? 6 years as mayor and less than 2 as governor? The girl can't help herself-- she is crafty but dumb AND she doesn't have an ethical bone in her body. I am amazed at how much Palin shit there is to uncover and I'm guessing that it hasn't all come yet. The media have had a month and a half to dig up dirt and some investigations have not been wrapped up yet.

Something I was thinking about today-- her budgeting priorities when she was Mayor of Wasilla. She claimed that the city budget could not stretch to pay for rape kits for rape victims yet she spent $50,000 to redecorate her office. That is enraging. Not to mention absurd for a town of 5000. And if she was running for president against me I would have an ad with one of those victims explaining what it felt like to be billed for her own rape kit. So much of this stuff is getting a pass because the Obama campaign is not running against her.

There is a very telling anecdote published in the New Republic
Palin also butted heads at times with Dick Deuser, the city attorney. Deuser was not your average small-town lawyer. He'd attended law school at the University of Minnesota and had worked for a prominent Anchorage firm. At one point, the council asked him about the legality of banning group homes--such as shelters for runaways--a position Palin championed. Deuser had an academic manner and was fond of citing Supreme Court precedent. When he explained that a ban would be unconstitutional, Palin appeared impatient with such legal niceties. "I would describe it this way: Sarah was not an in-depth person. Never has, never will be," Deuser says. "Her instincts are political as opposed to evaluative."
Sarah is a throwback, a politician who doesn't care what is ethical or even what is legal. She just wants her own way. She reminds me more of Huey Long than anyone else.

So I can't see a serious run for president. I think Alaska is the perfect place for her-- a state rotten with crooked politicians. And even Alaska may draw the line at another term for Governor Palin.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:20 PM on October 24, 2008 [4 favorites]


She reminds me more of Huey Long than anyone else.

That is a really interesting and provocative comparison. I see what you mean.
posted by Miko at 8:25 PM on October 24, 2008


She reminds me more of Huey Long than anyone else.

A less effective one. Although Huey didn't have today's mass media to contend with, so who knows?
posted by jonmc at 8:29 PM on October 24, 2008


This, sadly, is what women are expected, even required, to do when under such intense public scrutiny. We're not supposed to ever look aged, or tired, or gray-haired.

Governors Napolitano, Sebelius and Granholm

Looks like there was a sale on slacks down at the Nordstrom Rack.

I'm not saying these women aren't conscious of their image, or don't face a double standard when it come to their gender. But I've also never seen any of them stand up at the podium and noticed their clothes over whatever it was they were talking about.

This whole Palin shopping fiasco is about the hypocrisy of running an "average Mom" who's looking out for the little guy and taking on the elites, while spending that much on designer clothes. It shows either a complete lack of political savvy, or complete disdain for your base. Or both. If that's how she wants to do things, it doesn't mean she's a bad person, it just shows that her judgement doesn't match her message. That's not an attack, that's campaign strategy 101. It's why Michelle Obama wears $34 H&M dresses on the campaign, when it's pretty obvious she's got flashier duds in the closet at home.

I'm hoping Sarah Palin learns this lesson next january. Sitting at home flipping channels on the TV, Stopping briefly on CNN just in time to see Michelle Obama stepping out of a limo wearing something REAL expensive on her way into an Inaugural ball.
posted by billyfleetwood at 8:36 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


There is also this, if she did make a run at the presidency not only would all her missteps be under a microscope, there would be more time to deliver the bad news. Right now many of her supporters are sticking their fingers in their ears and singing "la la la I can't hear you" because they perceive that the Liberal Media is picking on her. That's mainly because the media has had only 6 weeks to cover her back story and there was a lot to cover. However, a Palin '12 campaign would mean 18 or 20 months of news coverage. It would also mean real interviews. Given her garbled, random syntax, I'm not sure she has the capacity to learn to speak clearly and cogently.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:41 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


The young boy absorbed this. "Dad," he asked again, "what are the Canadian Conservatives?"

"Well son," his Dad replied, "they're just like our Democrats, but further to the left."


Sadly, this hasn't been true since Peter MacKay sold out the real Progressive Conservative Party (Go Joe Clark, and the Red Tories!) to the fake, come-by-latelys who are trying, but failing, to pretend that they aren't Reform. They aren't even PCs anymore, they are the CC or something (Conservative Party of Canada). They don't have the same base, thought they are trying to get some of it back. But still much more western than the Bay Street PCs ever were.

So, yeah, if Obama wins, the U.S. will have a president who is more left wing than the current Canadian PM. Any Canadian who says otherwise is just in denial.
posted by jb at 8:52 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


A big part of the Palin narrative has been her family story - brave Bristol keeping her baby and marrying her baby's daddy. Oldest son, Track, enlisting in the army, fighting to keep us free. Adorable Piper and madonna-like Willow taking turns holding the darling, special needs baby.
And they're all just so damned attractive.

Its like a Hallmark Hall of Fame Movie, painted in broad strokes, easy to understand.

But within four years the marriage of Bristol and Levi may not be a photo op kind of thing. The problems that pushed Track into the military right out of high school (rumored enforced boot camp will sober you up and knock some sense into you) may not be over.

Us political junkies, we have read about all the cracks in the facade, but the republican base just has been digging the fairy tale. That fairy tale won't hold for four years.
And that is really all she has to offer.
posted by readery at 8:52 PM on October 24, 2008


So, yeah, if Obama wins, the U.S. will have a president who is more left wing than the current Canadian PM.

Unquestionably. But the party remains centrist-right, mostly, despite the machinations of Harper and Day. At least here in the West, Canadians won't stand for a hard-right government any more than they'd stand for a hard-left one.
posted by illiad at 8:59 PM on October 24, 2008


She's less popular than Romney or Huckabee.
posted by Jaltcoh at 9:01 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


But the party remains centrist-right, mostly, despite the machinations of Harper and Day. At least here in the West, Canadians won't stand for a hard-right government any more than they'd stand for a hard-left one.

Agreed; also remember that Harper's on a leash called a minority mandate, with that leash held by parties all further left than he may be, personally.
posted by jokeefe at 9:17 PM on October 24, 2008


I won't even try to make a prediction as to where Palin will be in four years. I can't see her getting the GOP nomination to run in 2012 as things stand (the GOP has to know they made a mistake picking her and Obama would leave her choking on his dust in the campaign anyway), but we live in cataclysmically changing times, and there are just so many things that could happen between then and now.

This campaign gives me hope that people are getting tired of incompetentcy and lies. The majority of American, regardless of their political convictions, know perfectly well that Palin is grossly unqualified to be VP.

And whatever frightening Bush-like candidates arise, I think the most important consideration is that there are demonstrably better candidates. It's not enough to have a non-Bush-like candidate, (i.e., Kerry). If you want people to change their ways and make better decisions, you have to give them better options, and you have to show them time and time again that there is a better way.

Personally, I'd rather spend my time thinking about where we could go from here rather than conjuring up visions of a disastrous future.

And I'll say it yet again -- best part about getting Obama in office is that we can mock Canadians over their Conservative minority government over and over and over and over....

I'm hoping you Americans will prioritize and fix the financial situation before you start mocking us. I've lost 12% of my retirement fund in the last three months.
posted by orange swan at 9:37 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Its like a Hallmark Hall of Fame Movie, painted in broad strokes, easy to understand.

Like a Thomas Kincaide painting.

Like a Love Is... cartoon.

Like Franklin Mint kitsch.

We've all met a Sarah Palin.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:50 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]


fff: you forgot this.
posted by brain cloud at 10:11 PM on October 24, 2008


We've all met a Sarah Palin.

Funny you should put it that way. I was watching The Aristocats the other day, and as per usual with a Disney DVD, the movie itself was sandwiched between miscellaneous ads for other Disney products (yes, I watch those, too - Sleepy Beauty is on Blue-Ray now!) and I saw this trailer for Snow Buddies. It looks so bad that not even the talking dogs - normally a default win for me, in my book - could salvage this thing from saccharine hell. By the end of the trailer, though, I became convinced that this is probably in the Palin family DVD collection. So now I skip past the ads on The Aristocats and go straight for the main attraction. Scales and arpeggios!
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:15 PM on October 24, 2008


In 2012 she'll be 52.. too old to inspire the attention she's getting from redneck men now.

...but she will inspire imitators.
posted by bonobothegreat at 11:02 PM on October 24, 2008


Did someone say talking point Markov generator?

Beautiful. It's like Haiku for our strange and particular historic moment. And I quote:

The way that I have understood
the world is had pushed for more troops
to help shore up our economy.


The lady speaks in rainbows.
posted by philip-random at 11:21 PM on October 24, 2008


They aren't even PCs anymore, they are the CC or something (Conservative Party of Canada).

I am still trying to make 'Conform' happen.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:22 PM on October 24, 2008 [3 favorites]


By the time the next presidential elections run around, the "Batshit Crazy Hateful Christian Extremist" wing will be the main force in what's left of the party, wielding even more power (relatively speaking, within the party) than they do today, since most of the other factions will be splintering off, disgusted.

I don't think you understand who really runs the Republican party. The Christian Right was used, and they know that. It's one reason why Obama has gained something like 20 points among evangelicals this time around (up to almost 35%, IIRC), mainly from picking up young (18-30) evangelicals. You won't believe how many younger people I know that you'd brand "Batshit Crazy Hateful Christian Extremist" who are voting for Obama.

No, the people who run the GOP are primarily people in business and finance who want the government to do their bidding -- stay out of their way as much as possible so long their pockets are lined with government cash. The GOP is a party of greed, just as much as the Democrats are a party of envy.

The Christian Right? Well, they'd throw them a bone every couple of years to help their "agenda" along, but for the most part they made sure the prize was just a leeeetle bit out of reach. Notice how, even with their years of power in Washington since 1980, they still haven't overturned Roe, and any of their attempts to even limit abortion has usually ended in failure? They could have put a bunch of abortion restrictions in place; heck, they probably could have put it in the Constitution if they picked the right time of history. But they didn't. And they didn't because banning abortion would have given that group no further reason to stick with the GOP.

If Bobby Jindal can survive his political struggles in Baton Rouge, then he may be a better choice for the GOP than Palin.

What is left of the Republican Party will not stomach nominating a negro.


THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN. Why wouldn't they nominate an Indian-American?

And Jindal was actually getting a lot of buzz for the veep slot, but ultimately he ran into trouble with the Louisiana Legislature and that derailed his hopes.

Jindal is one of your "batshit crazy" types, in fact (though I think his anti-Protestant beliefs may end up running them the wrong way). If he can survive Louisiana politics, he'll be one to reckon with come 2012.

Romney could try again and do well if Obama can't right the economic ship.

What is left of the Republican Party will not stomach nominating a Mormon.


THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN. Why wouldn't they nominate a Mormon?

And Romney does appeal to the pro-business end of the GOP more, and I think they may be the ultimate winners of the power struggle over the libertarians. The Christian Right probably wouldn't have a choice but to support him. After all, they had to hold their nose and vote for McCain. Maybe Romney taps Jindal for the veep slot.

If Rossi wins up here I can see the GOP drafting him as the "next Dubya" -- his lack of experience doesn't seem to be hurting him.

What is left of the Republican Party will not stomach nominating someone who believes that abortion in cases of rape and incest is acceptable.


THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN. Why wouldn't they nominate an Italian-American?

And Rossi's abortion beliefs are a little fuzzy. There are some questions whether his opposition to I-120 back in the day suggests he's a no abortion ever sort. And dropping "except rape and incest" is much easier for the right to swallow than, say, Giuliani's complete 180 on abortion.

I'm hoping Rossi's political career ends Tuesday after next, but I think he may win and completely muck up this state as part of his route to higher office.

And Lindsey Graham I think has the right sort of mix of experience and bona fides to be a compromise candidate for the warring GOP factions.

What is left of the Republican Party will not stomach nominating an obviously closeted homosexual.


THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN. Why wouldn't they nominate a... oh, yeah, never mind.

Still, Graham is "rumored" to be gay, but no one has ever filmed him with other men, and the rumors are mostly WELL HE IS UNMARRIED AND IN HIS 50S ITYKWIMAIKYD. Why does being an unmarried man automatically make you TEH GAY when the last three GOP gay sex scandals have featured MARRIED Republican men?

Graham does look and feel like McCain, only in a more Southern package that's a little closer to the heart of the base. Could he run and get through the endless barrage of I BET HE WANTS TO MOVE TO SAN FRAN NUDGE NUDGE WINK WINK that will trail him? Maybe.
posted by dw at 11:26 PM on October 24, 2008 [2 favorites]


Palin: 'I Don't Know' If Abortion Clinic Bombers Are Terrorists

Only if they're Muslims.
posted by sour cream at 12:27 AM on October 25, 2008


Ok, she is unqualified, fundamentalist, ignorant, and wears expensive outfits while espousing the values of middle America...

I GET IT.

not going to work.
posted by clearly at 1:46 AM on October 25, 2008


THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN.
THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN.
THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN.
THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN.


No, no, no and no they didn't. VP candidates are not nominated.

The Republicans nominated John McCain, or maybe more accurately John McCain was the only survivor of a weak litter this time around.

McCain and his advisors picked a woman all on their own, specifically a woman who didn't have very broad support within the party. I do no think Sarah Palin could have made it through the primaries and been nominated herself. (Next time, maybe, different question.)
posted by rokusan at 2:31 AM on October 25, 2008


In 2012 she'll be 52.. too old to inspire the attention she's getting from redneck men now.

She won't be 52, she'll be 48.
posted by Jaltcoh at 4:55 AM on October 25, 2008


VP candidates are not nominated.

(Point of order) yes, they are - that's how the convention works. McCain put her forth as his choice, and at the RNC on September 4, she was nominated.

Motion to Nominate V.P. by Acclamation
Floor: Alaska Delegation

Request for Second
Sen. McConnell

Adoption & Announcement of Nominee
Sen. McConnell

Appointment of Committee to Notify & Escort V.P. Candidate
Sen. McConnell


Her speech following this was her acceptance of the nomination.
posted by Miko at 7:31 AM on October 25, 2008


I once posted on my now-defunct LiveJournal pages an ersatz bumper sticker

This is not my photo. I appreciate the support though.
posted by ersatz at 7:49 AM on October 25, 2008


Here's further proof of Palin's unpresidentialcandidatability, as noted by Ear Bucket: Palin is categorically incapable of listening to advice:
Four Republicans close to Palin said she has decided increasingly to disregard the advice of the former Bush aides tasked to handle her, creating occasionally tense situations as she travels the country with them. Those Palin supporters, inside the campaign and out, said Palin blames her handlers for a botched rollout and a tarnished public image — even as others in McCain's camp blame the pick of the relatively inexperienced Alaska governor, and her public performance, for McCain's decline.

"She's lost confidence in most of the people on the plane," said a senior Republican who speaks to Palin, referring to her campaign jet. He said Palin had begun to "go rogue" in some of her public pronouncements and decisions.
Much of the rest of the article consists of various aids and advisors blaming either her or other aids and advisors. It's like a political Treasure of the Sierra Madre, with the presidency being the gold. I wouldn't be surprised if some time next week it's reported that Schmitt tried to smother Bounds with a pillow as he slept on the plane.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 8:03 AM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


In 2012 she'll be 52.. too old to inspire the attention she's getting from redneck men now.

...but she will inspire imitators.

posted by bonobothegreat at 2:02 AM on October 25

I blame TV reality shows for "Joe the Plumber" thinking he should take a stab at politics. Reality shows have proven that given bleached teeth and a buff body and a lot of exposure to the masses, ordinary people can go from nobody to celebrity in a few weeks without any particular talent. Example: Shoe designer, Elizabeth Hasselbeck gets national exposure on Survivor and goes on to co-host The View. Now she is campaigning for Sarah Palin. What kind of background does it take to become a darling of the Right Wing? She's not an intellectual heavyweight, nor is she particularly charismatic but she espouses the Right Wing agenda and she is pretty. I would not be surprised to see her take a run at a congressional seat.

Plus as time goes by, reality shows are casting dumber and weirder so that by contrast anybody with half a brain or an ounce of propriety starts looking good when compared to the contestents from Tia Tequila's Shot at Love or Flavor of Love Girls: Charm School.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:07 AM on October 25, 2008


Why Sarah Palin's dismissal of Fruit Fly research matters.
Today Palin gave her first policy speech in Pittsburgh, and with this one sentence she failed more spectacularly than should have been remotely possible in carefully written, highly prepared remarks:

"Sometimes these dollars they go to projects having little or nothing to do with the public good. Things like fruit fly research in Paris, France. I kid you not!"

Why does this sentence hit home to me? Because I'm a molecular biologist [...] and I use model organisms like fruit flies every day in my research.
What could those little things have to do with helping humanity, right?

Other than providing the basis for the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1995, I mean. The Nobel that was awarded to Edward Lewis, Christine Nüsslein-Volhard, and Eric Wieschaus for discovering the methods by which an egg - a single cell - patterns itself into bodily segments. Which has helped us to understand severe genetic abnormalities that cause major body patterning defects.
Ick! Science-- who needs it?! ....aside from everybody, I mean.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:18 AM on October 25, 2008 [13 favorites]


These handlers...they do NOTHING!

It is pretty amazing. Overhead projector and now fruit flies. Do they understand we're literally spending BILLIONS sequencing some protein? Could we do anything more wasteful?
posted by snofoam at 8:53 AM on October 25, 2008


Why Sarah Palin's dismissal of Fruit Fly research matters.

More on her comment and fruit flies.

Memo To Palin: Fruit Fly Research Has Led To Advances In Understanding Autism
"In [her] speech, Palin cited the need to do more for children with disabilities such as autism....Palin claimed that the amount that Congress spends on earmarks 'is more than the shortfall to fully fund IDEA [Individuals with Disabilities Education Act ].' She then ridiculed some of the projects — such as 'fruit fly research' — saying they have little or no value....she is apparently unaware that scientific research with fruit flies has led to valuable discoveries that have boosted autism research, as a study at the University of North Carolina demonstrated last year:
'[S]cientists at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine have shown that a protein called neurexin is required for...nerve cell connections to form and function correctly.

The discovery, made in Drosophila fruit flies may lead to advances in understanding autism spectrum disorders, as recently, human neurexins have been identified as a genetic risk factor for autism.'
The study of fruit flies has also been used for other autism research and 'revolutionize[d]' the study of birth defects."
posted by ericb at 9:30 AM on October 25, 2008 [5 favorites]


What does she think people were researching fruit flies for? I mean, anyone who takes introductory biology in college (or intro to genetics at even high school level) learn that fruit flies play a huge part in human genetic research. I mean, did she think they were getting research funding because fruit flies have powerful lobby machines in washington?

It sounds like she was trying to extend McCain's criticism for that other bear study project but once again completely misses the mark because she lacks the mental capacity to even scratch the surface of the subject and ask herself "why do we research fruit flies in the first place?".
posted by like_neon at 9:46 AM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Jesus, you MeFites love your political discussions. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for Romney 2012. He's the man who can lead humanity in the dawning years of global consciousness shift.
posted by Curry at 9:49 AM on October 25, 2008


Bookhouse: "It's very hard following all the political threads these days without placeholders."

Agreed.
posted by iamkimiam at 9:57 AM on October 25, 2008


Sarah Palin doesn't like that which she does not understand. And as she understands very, very little, she's against most things that require an education, require being well-read, require being aware of the world outside the family unit.

Also, fuck Sarah Palin. What a useless, two-bit maroon.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:14 AM on October 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN.
Republicans do what they're told.
THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN. Why wouldn't they nominate an Indian-American?
Because he's a negro.
THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN. Why wouldn't they nominate a Mormon?
Because he's a Mormon.
THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN. Why wouldn't they nominate an Italian-American?
Because he's in favor of legal abortions in cases of rape and incest.
THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN. Why wouldn't they nominate a... oh, yeah, never mind.
Exactly.

Again, I am aware that Bobby Jindal is not an African-American
posted by Flunkie at 10:18 AM on October 25, 2008


heh heh.
posted by snofoam at 10:31 AM on October 25, 2008


Palin's had a rough week, but this should please her: Administration Reopens Effort to De-List Endangered Gray Wolves
posted by homunculus at 11:04 AM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Surely this...?
posted by stagewhisper at 11:11 AM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


More on Palin "going rogue":

A second McCain source tells CNN she appears to now be looking out for herself more than the McCain campaign.

“She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone,” said this McCain adviser, “she does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else. Also she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember: divas trust only unto themselves as they see themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom.”

posted by KokuRyu at 11:42 AM on October 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


Rogue...or maverick?
posted by snofoam at 11:53 AM on October 25, 2008


I could also see her going rouge.
posted by snofoam at 11:54 AM on October 25, 2008


THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN.

I think it's an important point to note that they didn't nominate her. She was picked by the McCain campaign, announced as a publicity stunt to steal Obama's nomination thunder, and been largely sheltered from having to engage in a serious debate involving policy.

No, the people who run the GOP are primarily people in business and finance who want the government to do their bidding -- stay out of their way as much as possible so long their pockets are lined with government cash. The GOP is a party of greed, just as much as the Democrats are a party of envy.

Well, this group may nominate a woman. But I don't think they would nominate Palin. This is the group that has been grousing for a few years now that the Republicans deserve to loose for putting ideology an populism over sensible governance.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:56 AM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


The McCain campaign's "Celebrity" commercial was strangely prophetic. What do you think Sarah Palin do before election day? (Check all that apply.)

- Drop her baby
- Get caught shoplifting at Saks Fifth Avenue
- Show nipple and/or pantyless crotch
- Punch a photographer
- Get arrested for possession of an unregistered firearm and a small amount of black tar heroin
- Media discovers everything she ever said about herself is a lie & everything she has ever done is tainted by corruption
- Makes anti-semitic remarks to police officer
- Poses for photo doing "chinese" squinty eye thing with her fingers
posted by snofoam at 12:07 PM on October 25, 2008


What do you think Sarah Palin do before election day?

Talk to producers from FOX about the pilot for Rogue Nation, her primetime, straight-talkin' news show, to be aired some time next year.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:23 PM on October 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


De. Nial.
posted by you just lost the game at 12:25 PM on October 25, 2008


More angry scientists.
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 12:30 PM on October 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


Four Republicans close to Palin said she has decided increasingly to disregard the advice of the former Bush aides tasked to handle her, creating occasionally tense situations as she travels the country with them.

However, it does mean more fun for the rest of us.

Re: fruit flies

I once dated a cancer researcher who worked on fruit flies. But you know, that's just the kind of useless thing we Canadians spend our tax dollars on.
posted by orange swan at 12:34 PM on October 25, 2008


Oooooooo and she puts on her respectable Republican cloth coat:
“Your state is filled with good, hard-working people all loving the outdoors,” she said, “and it was nice and crisp getting off the airplane and coming into the — it reminded me a lot of Alaska, so I put my warm jacket on, and it is my own jacket. It doesn't belong to anybody else. My own jacket, for once, Alaska.”
No word as to whether or not she is keeping Checkers, the dog, for the...sniff...children.

Yet, she still needs to buy more clothes!
On Monday, the day before the Alaska governor appeared at a Reno rally, one of her assistants bought her a new suit for the occasion at an Ann Taylor store in an upscale Reno mall.

"She bought a short, three-quarter sleeve jacket, a skirt and a couple other items," store manager Suzette Ludden told the Reno Gazette-Journal.
Has she worn all the other stuff already? Maybe Goodwill just couldn't wait and snatched it all right out of the belly of the plane. Damn that greedy Goodwill Industries!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:43 PM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


The Source Of Palin Hate
posted by homunculus at 1:04 PM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


I read that earlier in the week, homunculus...it was hard for me to believe it was printed on a "respectable" conservative website, as opposed to, say, a photocopied newsletter being handed out by some wild-eyed crank on the street.

I think the U.S. right wing really is cracking up.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:33 PM on October 25, 2008


Rogues are backstabbers.
I learned that from Everquest.
posted by Balisong at 2:03 PM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


What does she think people were researching fruit flies for?

To kill God, make everyone (choose a) homosexual (lifestyle), and cause religious faith to make your hair turn green so that they can round up all the Christians into abortion camps.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:04 PM on October 25, 2008


This whole "going rogue" thing is the first smart thing she's done. She may not be an intellectual, well versed on Anything besides her ideological beliefs, or a very nice person. But she is one thing, and that is a successful politician. And as such, the total incompetence being waged by the McCain campaign is probably pretty obvious, even to someone with her limited politicalexperience.

“She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone,” said this McCain adviser, “she does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else. Also she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party.

Would you take advice from any of McCain's advisors right now? And why shouldn't she see herself as the next leader of the party? They put her in the #2 spot behind a guy who is currently not leading the party. Hell, she's just doing her job. McCain has all but abandoned his post at this point. The past weeks worth of News cycles have been about everyone but Mccain. His campaign is crumbling in the home stretch and he has done nothing to reign it in.

If Palin goes off ticket to saves her own ass, I will have twice the respect for her that I did a week ago.

Way back when She was first picked, and everyone made a big fuss about her not being vetted? And the Rebublicans were all, "Why do you hate her? Quit attacking her!"? Nobody was attacking her. It's a basic political truth. This is why you vet your pick.

Not just to find the embarassing stuff, or to stymie the opposition. But so you know who they are, how they react to things, and what their agenda is. At this point, should McCain lose, Palin should sue his ass for political malpractice. And then she should go back to Alaska and leave the rest of us alone.
posted by billyfleetwood at 2:34 PM on October 25, 2008


Would you take advice from any of McCain's advisors right now

There's a real irony here. You're saying she's astute for not trusting the people who presumably helped put her on the ticket. I'm not saying you're wrong, mind you, just observing the weird Moebius-strip nature of the McCain campaign's internal structure.
posted by adamrice at 2:44 PM on October 25, 2008


She may not be an intellectual, well versed on Anything besides her ideological beliefs, or a very nice person. But she is one thing, and that is a successful politician.

I'm sorry, I really have to disagree with this last point. A successful politician she is not. Lucky, perhaps, to have been chosen by Team McCain, but if anything, they've saved her from completely diving in flames by having to explain her baffling statements, time and time again. Granted, you're right that Team McCain aren't exactly the game masters - this is a bit like a team of basset hound puppies keeping a blind kitten away from a running lawnmower. But her bullying, pig-ignorant nature was beginning to destroy her carreer before she even left Alaska.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:51 PM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


I mean, anyone who takes introductory biology in college (or intro to genetics at even high school level) learn that fruit flies play a huge part in human genetic research.

And one would hope her father (Chuck Heath) understood the importance/impact of fruit fly research.

After all he was a high school biology teacher.*
“The fruit fly (Drosophila) has probably been the single most important organism for the study of genetics for over a century now. Almost everything we know about genetics, development, cell biology, neuroscience, and every other field of biology has strong roots in previous and current work on Drosophila. The fruit fly is one of a small handful of ‘standard model organisms’ used by thousands of scientists across the world to learn how our bodies, organs, genes, and proteins work. Most of what we know about how a single fertilized cell becomes the amazingly complex beings we are comes from studies initially done in Drosophila. Vast amounts of our understanding of the brain (and brain disorders, diseases, and defects) also come from initial studies in fruit flies.

…To decry research in [condescending and amazed tone] ‘the fruit fly’ is a testament to the true idiocy of this woman and to the failure of our public education system. In fact, her own father, Chuck Heath, was a biology teacher – obviously a complete failure of a biology teacher.”
* -- Maybe not. In his calculus “fruits” may have been nothing more than “fags.” Not that there's anything wrong with that!
posted by ericb at 3:30 PM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


a comment from one of Combustible Edison Lighthouse's links:

"What do you get when you cross Sarah Palin with a fruit fly?"

Same thing anyone else gets for crossing Sarah Palin: harassed, fired and shot from helicopters.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 3:42 PM on October 25, 2008


I'm sorry, I really have to disagree with this last point. A successful politician she is not.

I'm speaking purely from the position that she got herself elected mayor of her hometown, however small it may be, and ran a successful gubernatorial campaign.

You're saying she's astute for not trusting the people who presumably helped put her on the ticket.

I'm just guessing that given her "outsider" status she probably didn't have a good sense of the inner workings of the campaign before she signed on. Once the whirlwind honeymoon of the convention wore off, I'm sure she had a moment to assess the situation and make up her own mind about where things were headed. Besides, i would bet there's a big difference between creeped out by Joe Lieberman and Lindsay Graham on TV, and being creeped out by them up close and personal on the Straight Talk Express.

Plu, unlike Bush, I really do believe that her and Todd's Huntin' and fishin, Boot Wearin' country folk Alaska lifestyle is the real deal. So it wouldn't surprise me if she really does think all those DC consultant types are a bunch of wine sipping pussy know nothings fags, even the ones in her own party.
posted by billyfleetwood at 4:29 PM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


THEY. NOMINATED. A. WOMAN. Why wouldn't they nominate an Indian-American?

Because he's a negro.


OK, let's try this one more time. Jindal is a CATHOLIC.

Catholics are CHRISTIANS.

The Catholic Church is PRO-LIFE.

This is a party that once drafted ALAN KEYES, a BLACK CATHOLIC to run against Obama. (Though that was more a sign of desperation than reason.)

Jindal is POPULAR among the National Review/American Spectator crowd.

And, most of all... HE IS NOT WHITE. That's one of his HUGE selling points.

Again, why was Alan Keyes drafted? BLACK.

Why was Palin drafted? WOMAN.

So, again, why wouldn't they nominate an Indian-American?

And again, the Religious Right has NEVER actually run the GOP. They have only been their most dependable voting bloc, which is why McCain had to appease them in order to get the base working for him. The Religious Right can damage the GOP by staying home, but they also know they can't win on their own. And thus, Gary Bauer and Alan Keyes were doomed to the fringe.

In a sense, the Religious Right is to the GOP as the unions have been to the Dems -- keep 'em happy and they'll gladly vote for you. In the coming upheaval, that loyalty will be tested as sub-35 evangelicals turn into Obama Republicans and the older generation dies off.

I think we're probably returning to the way we were before the Moral Majority, where the religious vote wasn't concentrated in a single party. There's no way the GOP can just be the Religious Right, and there's no way the Religious Right can just be the GOP. Everyone knows this. The question is, will an Obama landslide push that reality forward?

And honestly, you have to keep slinging around "negro" like that? It makes you look more a small-minded bigot than the people you're criticizing.
posted by dw at 4:53 PM on October 25, 2008


Maybe by 2012 science will be obsolete.
posted by mazola at 5:01 PM on October 25, 2008


Well, this group may nominate a woman. But I don't think they would nominate Palin. This is the group that has been grousing for a few years now that the Republicans deserve to loose for putting ideology an populism over sensible governance.

And yet, they let Dubya be nominated, mostly because he was controllable. That's the question the elite within the party will have to ask -- can they tame her and use her as their mouthpiece, or will she be a dark combination of McCain's erratic loose cannon and Dubya's simple-minded thinking?

Again, like I said waaaaaaay upthread, there's no way Palin can win the nomination in 2012 unless she hangs on in Alaska and can become more transformational and less aspirational.

I'm still thinking Romney. He seems like the only one outside of Huckabee who's survived this GOP fiasco with his dignity (and his wonderfully coiffed helmet of hair) intact.

It's going to be fun watching Ron Paul, Howard Phillips, and Grover Nordquist be at each others' throats for the next four years, while the real money tries to figure out what to do next.
posted by dw at 5:01 PM on October 25, 2008


Maybe by 2012 science will be obsolete.

Our bright and glorious future!
posted by homunculus at 5:20 PM on October 25, 2008


Communication profs' Statement Concerning Recent Discourse of the McCain/Palin Campaign:
Both major campaigns have been criticized by fact-checking organizations for prevarications. We call on both campaigns to halt blatant misrepresentations of their opponent’s positions.

It would be misleading, however, to imply that since “both sides do it” there is no qualitative difference worth noting. In recent weeks, the Republican ticket of John McCain and Sarah Palin has engaged in such incendiary mendacity that we must speak out. . . . The McCain/Palin campaign and its surrogates, of course, will deny explicit racism. But their purposeful repetition of inflammatory false statements is unethical and stokes the fires of racism.

posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 6:19 PM on October 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


I'm speaking purely from the position that she got herself elected mayor of her hometown, however small it may be, and ran a successful gubernatorial campaign.

Granted ... and then proceeded to make scores of enemies due to an inflated sense of entitlement that her big fish in a little pond existence gave her. This isn't politicking; it's a scorched earth policy - stab people in the back when they make the mistake of helping you up, steal everything within reach of your new position, bully and badger people in the way, never think out an exit strategy, never think more than one move ahead. She's an amateur. My junior high school class president had more savvy than Sarah Palin.

Once the whirlwind honeymoon of the convention wore off, I'm sure she had a moment to assess the situation and make up her own mind about where things were headed.


I'm guessing there wasn't much reflection involved. "Diva" isn't quite as fitting as "one-hit wonder". She got the applause at the RNC, got some initial fawning media attention, and believed her own hype. She became star-struck with herself.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:40 PM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


I'm guessing there wasn't much reflection involved.

True. Palin is as un-self-aware as they come, and seems to have a teflon ego. I'm not getting the impression that any of the criticism she is facing is sinking in.
posted by orange swan at 6:52 PM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Palin is experienced in inside deals. Oil deals, that is. Texas T, Alaska sweet crude, Natural gas pipelines.
posted by Balisong at 11:44 PM on October 25, 2008


I'm looking forward to the Onion headline:

PALIN: "JOHN MCCAIN COST ME THIS ELECTION!"
Veep Nominee Claims She Was Forced To Work With Improperly Vetted, Empty-Headed Ideologues With No Appreciation For Irony.
posted by Clay201 at 12:43 AM on October 26, 2008 [2 favorites]


The missiles are flying. Hallelujah. Hallelujah.
posted by jokeefe at 6:16 AM on October 26, 2008


There's no new Palin thread today (sniff), so I'll just park this here so y'all can enjoy some Sunday morning schadenfreude.

CNN: Palin's 'going rogue,' McCain aide says

"She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this McCain adviser. "She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us."


Which goes to show the old saying: You get the maverick you deserve.
posted by rokusan at 6:53 AM on October 26, 2008


If Palin goes off ticket to saves her own ass, I will have twice the respect for her that I did a week ago.

Twice nothin's still nothin.
posted by synaesthetichaze at 8:10 AM on October 26, 2008 [4 favorites]


Are the Republican controllers pushing the rogue meme in an attempt to increase her popularity and/or chances of running next time around? 'cause you seriously can't believe a damn thing the Republican machine pumps out these days. It's all bullshit and spin, all the time.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:53 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


"Her lack of fundamental understanding of some key issues was dramatic," said another McCain source with direct knowledge of the process to prepare Palin after she was picked. The source said it was probably the "hardest" to get her "up to speed than any candidate in history."

The lady is handicapped from the outset. A person who believes humans rode dinosaurs isn't going to come to grips very quickly with the idea that fruit flies can contribute to better human healthcare.

Almost all her fundamental beliefs about this world are so completely out to lunch that she's not starting from ground zero: she's fallen down a deep well, and they're gonna have to dig for her.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:59 AM on October 26, 2008


Well, what do you expect? They're paid less than the fucking makeup artist.

All I can say anymore is: LOLMCAINPALIN.

YES!
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:09 PM on October 26, 2008


Oh, right -- my last comment was in response to:

These handlers...they do NOTHING!

Posted above by snofoam. Whoops.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:10 PM on October 26, 2008


Did a cooter timer reset got deleted above?

I'm not sure that's a bad thing.
posted by Pronoiac at 5:20 PM on October 26, 2008


...few who have worked closely with the governor would argue she is truly ready to assume command of the most important, powerful nation on earth. To step in and juggle the demands of an economic meltdown, two deadly wars and a deteriorating climate crisis would stretch the governor beyond her range. Like picking Sen. McCain for president, putting her one 72-year-old heartbeat from the leadership of the free world is just too risky at this time.
The Anchorage Daily News in endorsing Obama.
posted by jamaro at 7:42 PM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Wow.
posted by pointilist at 8:06 PM on October 26, 2008


You're all just being sexist, just like you did with Hilary Clinton.
posted by Artw at 8:10 PM on October 26, 2008


I like this article, about the writer seeing things through the eyes of the next generation.
“We can do this,” Obama said. “Americans have done this before. Some of us had grandparents or parents who said maybe I can't go to college but my child can; maybe I can't have my own business but my child can. I may have to rent, but maybe my children will have a home they can call their own. I may not have a lot of money but maybe my child will run for Senate. I might live in a small village but maybe someday my son can be president of the United States of America.”

It’s boilerplate American Dream, and all candidates have a version of it. But this version touched my son. It evoked in him the possibilities at his fingertips, and he felt a part of something bigger than himself, his family or his small universe of friends and classmates. I could tell that his concept of “country,” and what it means to be an American, came into greater focus for him.

Naturally, his political tastes will change and become more nuanced and sophisticated as he gets older. But I hope he never loses touch with what he felt Sunday, that sense of potential and excitement not just for himself, but for the country as a whole.

I know it’s a simple credo, one upon which our country was founded, but it doesn’t hit home when you read it in a textbook. For my son, it never sunk in until he heard it from Barack Obama, as one of tens of thousands who took inspiration from his words that day.
Barack drew 100,000 in one location in Colorado, then 50,000 in another.
posted by cashman at 8:18 PM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


What Sarah Palin Wore to the Revolution: The Swiss designer brand Akris . . . comprises the bulk of the RNC purchases . . . “super super deluxe, expensive but not ostentatious. It is a stealth choice, a sign of quality that would be recognized by a fashionable European audience but would play no less to Joe the Plumber” . . .

Transcript of John McCain on NBC's "Meet The Press"
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 8:50 PM on October 26, 2008


“super super deluxe, expensive but not ostentatious. It is a stealth choice, a sign of quality that would be recognized by a fashionable European audience but would play no less to Joe the Plumber” . . .


Money well spent. Get over it, unless she decides to keep the duds in which case it is a campaign law violation.
posted by caddis at 9:12 PM on October 26, 2008


Money well spent. Get over it, unless she decides to keep the duds in which case it is a campaign law violation.

So what would happen to the clothes? I can't see Palin giving them back at the end of the campaign.

A second McCain source says she appears to be looking out for herself more than the McCain campaign.

Well, duh. Anyone familiar with the story of Palin's career knows that she puts herself first last and always.
posted by orange swan at 10:17 PM on October 26, 2008


So what would happen to the clothes? I can't see Palin giving them back at the end of the campaign.

Palin has said she's borrowing the clothes from the RNC. The RNC says the clothes will be donated to charity. If the candidate kept the clothes, they'd be considered a gift for tax purposes and taxed accordingly. I'm sure if it wasn't for that little detail, the wardrobe would have found its way to Wasilla. Out of a $150K in clothes, I'm sure one or two outfits might be kept accidentally.
posted by birdherder at 5:04 AM on October 27, 2008


Cashman, thank you for that. Tears welled up in this old cynical liberal's eyes.
posted by notsnot at 5:28 AM on October 27, 2008


then 50,000 in another.

That would be Fort Collins.

10:30 AM today, live from Canton, Ohio. Streaming, as always, here.

This will be his first rollout of his "closing argument" speech, and expect it to be a doozy. It returns, according to previews, to the theme of uniting the country and forging a new politics -- his opening themes from the primary season, which have been slipping back in steadily over the past couple of weeks. He appears to be daring McCain to keep attacking, more jiu jitsu, where seizing the high ground in the last week is an in your face asswhupping political tactic. It's what he's been doing all along. Rove was right about inversion -- you win by going after your opponent's *strengths* and showing they are illusory. Obama has systematically destroyed McCain's reputation for honor, for moderation, for bipartisanship and post-racial politics, and even for foreign policy and national defense expertise and firmness of temperament. Oh sweet payback for what they did to John Kerry and Al Gore, though I know that's not a very Baracky sentiment to express publicly. I swear to christ that if terror*sts blew up a major American landmark tomorrow Obama would still win the election (unless Cheney used it as an occasion to declare martial law, and yeah I'm one of those who thinks that's ready to go in a file drawer somewhere), much the way the Spanish revolted against the right after an election week terra-related (TM) incident a few years back. More naively, one wants to say that we're leading this because Obama has run on the truth, and the truth always wins eventually. But they will be writing in 100 years, if we make it that far, about the sheer political genius of this campaign, the way a "community organizer" (imagine Rudy Giuliani saying it with a sneer, followed by Palin saying her job was similar but "with responsibilities") served up the biggest can of political whupass in American political history by using the brittle behemoth of rightwing ideology against itself.

Yes. We. Will.

Anyway, just checking in to pitch the 10:30AM speech coming up soon. If you're into that sort of thing. I'm sure you can also watch McCain flailing away in some formerly red state in front of 2500 die hard members of the KKK if you prefer to see an old man bitch at history.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:28 AM on October 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


And yeah, cashman, that was really nice -- thanks!
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:31 AM on October 27, 2008


Pre-released excerpt of the "closing argument" speech (NY Times):

At a moment like this, the last thing we can afford is four more years of the tired, old theory that says we should give more to billionaires and big corporations and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else. The last thing we can afford is four more years where no one in Washington is watching anyone on Wall Street because politicians and lobbyists killed common-sense regulations. Those are the theories that got us into this mess. They haven’t worked, and it’s time for change. That’s why I’m running for President of the United States.

Now, Senator McCain has served this country honorably. And he can point to a few moments over the past eight years where he has broken from George Bush – on torture, for example. He deserves credit for that. But when it comes to the economy – when it comes to the central issue of this election – the plain truth is that John McCain has stood with this President every step of the way. Voting for the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy that he once opposed. Voting for the Bush budgets that spent us into debt. Calling for less regulation twenty-one times just this year. Those are the facts.

And now, after twenty-one months and three debates, Senator McCain still has not been able to tell the American people a single major thing he’d do differently from George Bush when it comes to the economy. Senator McCain says that we can’t spend the next four years waiting for our luck to change, but you understand that the biggest gamble we can take is embracing the same old Bush-McCain policies that have failed us for the last eight years.

posted by fourcheesemac at 6:37 AM on October 27, 2008


More, now posted at Politico:

“In one week, you can put an end to the politics that would divide a nation just to win an election; that tries to pit region against region, city against town, Republican against Democrat; that asks us to fear at a time when we need hope. In one week, at this defining moment in history, you can give this country the change we need,” he says in prepared remarks. “[A]s I’ve said from the day we began this journey all those months ago, the change we need isn’t just about new programs and policies. It’s about a new politics – a politics that calls on our better angels instead of encouraging our worst instincts; one that reminds us of the obligations we have to ourselves and one another.”

Obama says that part of the reason that “the economic crisis occurred is because we have been living through an era of profound irresponsibility.”

“[W]hat we have lost in these last eight years cannot be measured by lost wages or bigger trade deficits alone,” he said “What has also been lost is the idea that in this American story, each of us has a role to play. Each of us has a responsibility to work hard and look after ourselves and our families, and each of us has a responsibility to our fellow citizens. That’s what’s been lost these last eight years – our sense of common purpose; of higher purpose. And that’s what we need to restore right now.”

posted by fourcheesemac at 6:41 AM on October 27, 2008


Palin Blames Wardrobe on RNC. But it does show the RNC may be out of touch with real Americans like Sarah Palin. A better run campaign wouldn't have let this happen. The character they had cast was hockey mom and the costume designer should have kept that in mind in shopping. Had the receipts totaled $20,000 from places like Ann Taylor or Macys it wouldn't have even made Politico.

It is a nice spin. Throw the RNC under the bus. But she could have been a maverick and said "I'm not going to wear these clothes, they aren't me."

The GOP wanted a maverick like Sarah Palin and they've got one.
posted by birdherder at 6:52 AM on October 27, 2008


Update on time: doors open at 10:30 AM, but the program begins at 12:30, so Barack will probably be speaking closer to 1PM.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:00 AM on October 27, 2008


Oh sweet payback for what they did to John Kerry and Al Gore, though I know that's not a very Baracky sentiment to express publicly.

I keep thinking that there are plenty of broadcasters, journalists and bloggers who are saying the kind of critcal and negative things Obama won't say. He gets the best of both worlds: he gets to take the high road while other people are only too willing to make mincemeat out of McCain and Palin.
posted by orange swan at 7:23 AM on October 27, 2008


If someone offers you clothes you don't normally wear, especially when you're arguably the second in charge of your org at the moment, you can turn them down.
posted by drezdn at 7:27 AM on October 27, 2008


Of course, drezdn. But honesty has never stopped Palin from blaming others for everything that she does wrong, and it's not going to stop her now.
posted by orange swan at 7:49 AM on October 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


This sign from Indiana is further photographic evidence of Obama's ability to build a coalition of supporters that crosses all the traditional racial and economic boundaries.

For the record, fourcheesemac pointed out a similar phenomenon two or three election threads ago.
posted by shiu mai baby at 8:49 AM on October 27, 2008


Obama live feed from Ohio is up now.

And check out Ludacris: Obama is Coming (YT)
posted by fourcheesemac at 10:15 AM on October 27, 2008


Whoops, Ludacris' title is "Obama is Here"

and he is.. coming on right now!
posted by fourcheesemac at 10:16 AM on October 27, 2008


Thanks fourcheese!
posted by cashman at 10:17 AM on October 27, 2008


Alternate live feed of Canton speech on KEWS (Cleveland)

(working really well)
posted by fourcheesemac at 10:17 AM on October 27, 2008


Anybody got any ideas for an audio-only stream link? My work connection can't handle this video, and I can't handle the stuttering.
posted by Miko at 10:33 AM on October 27, 2008


Wow. That was a great Monday morning delight. I love that man.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:50 AM on October 27, 2008


Let's get to work.
posted by cashman at 10:51 AM on October 27, 2008


missed it - anybody have a video link?
posted by jpdoane at 10:54 AM on October 27, 2008


Did he just kick ass or what?

Afterburners, check.
posted by fourcheesemac at 11:00 AM on October 27, 2008


McCain: Reid, Pelosi, Obama a "dangerous threesome."
posted by kirkaracha at 11:20 AM on October 27, 2008


jpdoane: replay starting now on cspan
posted by lostburner at 11:23 AM on October 27, 2008


I still remember the email that a woman named Robyn sent me after I met her in Ft. Lauderdale. Sometime after our event, her son nearly went into cardiac arrest, and was diagnosed with a heart condition that could only be treated with a procedure that cost tens of thousands of dollars. Her insurance company refused to pay, and their family just didn’t have that kind of money.

In her email, Robyn wrote, “I ask only this of you – on the days where you feel so tired you can’t think of uttering another word to the people, think of us. When those who oppose you have you down, reach deep and fight back harder.”

Ohio, that’s what hope is – that thing inside us that insists, despite all evidence to the contrary, that something better is waiting around the bend; that insists there are better days ahead. If we’re willing to work for it. If we’re willing to shed our fears and our doubts. If we’re willing to reach deep down inside ourselves when we’re tired and come back fighting harder.
As I read these words my heart is so full right now it feels like it might just squeeze itself right out of my ribcage.

Win or lose, I have never been more fucking proud to support a candidate in my entire life.
posted by shiu mai baby at 11:25 AM on October 27, 2008 [5 favorites]


Also, rereading that bit above, I am reminded of one of my favorite sayings:

"Courage does not always roar... sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, 'I will try again tomorrow.'" --Mary Ann Radmacher
posted by shiu mai baby at 11:27 AM on October 27, 2008 [3 favorites]


Transcript of Obama's speech in Ohio
posted by nicepersonality at 11:32 AM on October 27, 2008


Man, that's a great speech. Seriously - that's JFK quality oratory.
posted by rodgerd at 5:55 PM on October 27, 2008


N-word shouted at Palin rally (Youtube)
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 8:18 PM on October 27, 2008


Ah, YouTube:

SailorWuvsPeanut
This is a lie, the woman in the audience said, "We want NADER!"

posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 8:42 PM on October 27, 2008


Some are saying she says "redistributor," which says more about what McCain has done wrong than the N-word, actually.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:39 AM on October 28, 2008


"redistributor"

Oh, yes. Palin fans can create whole new declinations of nouns. That's far more likely than a shouted racial slur.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 4:15 AM on October 28, 2008


Barack Obama: Closing Argument. Canton, Ohio; October 27, 2008.
posted by yeti at 5:52 AM on October 28, 2008


One last thing that might hurt Palin in 2012...

Obama hasn't made much of an issue of the corruption and poor decisions Palin has been involved in, focusing more on McCain. In the primaries, everything from troopergate to the 150K clothes will be dredged up, and this time Republican voters will be hearing them coming from sources they might trust.
posted by drezdn at 9:21 PM on October 29, 2008 [1 favorite]


Palin in 2012? IN addition to drezdn's points, we're going to be in a changed world no matter what. By 2012, Palin will be lucky to be a question in Trivial Pursuit- Oughts Edition. She'll be the outdated Hillary to someone's else's young untested Obamalike challenger.
posted by Miko at 9:29 PM on October 29, 2008


« Older "No other country could have produced the Specials...   |   After recently leading his far... Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments