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The true conservative in this race: Barack Obama
November 1, 2008 8:56 AM   Subscribe

As a Conservative, I Must Say I Do Quite Like the Cut of this Obama Fellow's Jib
posted by 445supermag (93 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

 
How do you cut a jib?
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:05 AM on November 1, 2008


Double post
posted by jaduncan at 9:12 AM on November 1, 2008 [3 favorites]


Dude kind of ruins the satire two sentences in by thinking that the Cosmo is a 60-year-old blueblood drink.
posted by Bookhouse at 9:13 AM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


Iowahawk's to the right but he's no fool. He can see the Rockefeller Republicans, what's left of them, jumping ship as the GOP fragments between conservatives and populist Christianists, and he's mocking them from the perspective of the latter.

My hope is that Sarah Palin is a kind of end boss of populist social conservatism -- the flashiest and most frightening, because she's the last.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:13 AM on November 1, 2008 [13 favorites]


Dude kind of ruins the satire two sentences in by thinking that the Cosmo is a 60-year-old blueblood drink.
posted by Bookhouse at 9:13 AM on November 1 [+] [!]


Did you have your manservant type that for you? (Sorry, this anti-elitism is fun).
posted by 445supermag at 9:26 AM on November 1, 2008


Really good, biting satire generally relies on subtlety to make a point. This highly stylized piece tries hard to have one, but it's so scattershot and bone-headed as to be pointless. As Countess Elena points out, he's is trying to skewer the intellectual old-moneyed elite of the GOP -- using an approximation of Thurston Howell III's vernacular, at best, an outsider's caricature/pastiche of how such people speak -- but it's not a very effective job. It accepts totally without critique the accusations levied at Obama (most of which are specious, and "southern strategy" code word racist), and it doesn't reflect too well on McCain or Palin either.

C-/D+

the flashiest and most frightening, because she's the last

I hope so too, but think about this: Sarah Palin's rhetoric is incredibly poisonous and alarming, and the residue of the bitterness that has been mined and encouraged by the McCain campaigns stump performances and advertisements will no doubt be felt for years to come. It's now no longer considered bad manners or poor form to be openly racist, which represents a huge step backwards. But, at the end of the day, she's a prop. Having heard her struggle to speak extemporaneously, trying desperately to seem intelligent, but ending up sounding like a caffeine addled teenage girl, she's clearly not crafting the text of those speeches. Not that she deserves a pass, but there are other, darker and more powerful forces at work here that know exactly what they're doing.

Which is terrifying.
posted by psmealey at 9:27 AM on November 1, 2008 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I thought it was a direct parody on Buckley the Younger.

Hilarious, too.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:36 AM on November 1, 2008


My hope is that Sarah Palin is a kind of end boss of populist social conservatism

FINISH HER!
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:40 AM on November 1, 2008 [13 favorites]


Fatality!
posted by grubi at 9:44 AM on November 1, 2008


If only we were all salt of the earth misinformed dumb asses like Iowa Hawk and Joe (Sam) the unlicensed plumber! The world would be ...... just like the last 8 years.

He should stick to writing about rocket cars. His politics are about as informed as the typical Dittohead and Fox News viewer.

William Ayers! William Ayers!
posted by joseppi7 at 9:53 AM on November 1, 2008


"And so he says, 'I don't like the cut of your jib.' And I go, I says, 'IT'S THE ONLY JIB I GOT, BABY!"'
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 9:54 AM on November 1, 2008 [8 favorites]


I agree that there are deep flaws in the satire, but some of the sentences are just really fun, and reflect a pretty sharp wit.

I mean, my God, this woman is simply awful; the elided vowels, the beauty pageantry, the guns, the crude non-Episcopal protestantism, the embarrassing porchload of children with horrifying hillbilly names, the white after Labor Day.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:02 AM on November 1, 2008 [6 favorites]


If only we were all salt of the earth misinformed dumb asses like Iowa Hawk and Joe (Sam) the unlicensed plumber!

It is hard to understand why they don't vote democratic. I mean, in the primaries, they were given the opportunity to choose who is the more oppressed minority: Lawyers from Harvard or lawyers from Yale.
posted by 445supermag at 10:06 AM on November 1, 2008 [3 favorites]


she's clearly not crafting the text of those speeches. Not that she deserves a pass, but there are other, darker and more powerful forces at work here that know exactly what they're doing...Which is terrifying.

I think you're giving them too much credit. These 'powerful forces' are nothing more than petulant trust-fund Republican lifers too well-positioned in society to give a rats ass if their 2-years-out-of Yale speech writing gig is attached to a sinking ship. Given the mess that campaign is in, I'd imagine that the truly talented, strategic minds have jumped ship already - if they had many in the first place.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:15 AM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]



It is hard to understand why they don't vote democratic. I mean, in the primaries, they were given the opportunity to choose who is the more oppressed minority: Lawyers from Harvard or lawyers from Yale.


Really? I thought we had the choice between two moderate democrats, one of whom supported a disastrously botched invasion of a country totally unrelated to the attacks of 9/11 with tons of baggage from the end of her husbands time in office and a moderate democrat with a history of bipartisanship. God forbid we elect an educated person this time around!

You have something in common with McCain: He also can't make any argument for why you should vote for him, just that his opponent is an unacceptable "other" who is unfit for office.
posted by joseppi7 at 10:15 AM on November 1, 2008 [4 favorites]


You couldn't even bother to add any tags except "satire", which is basically a mistake.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:19 AM on November 1, 2008


It's now no longer considered bad manners or poor form to be openly racist

Only if you don't respond to racists by telling them their behaviour is unacceptable, and demand they either clean up their speech or STFU. In a workplace environment in particular, you can ensure there are consequences for such behaviour.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:28 AM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


I was horrified and sickened until I realized this guy was not for real. It's like someone took William Buckley's pro-Obama piece and vomited ostentatious aristocratic wealth all over it. Disgusting.

Which is funny, because I should be glad that Republicans are supporting Obama. I wish people like that would just stay on their side of the isle.

I'm not entirely sure what the point of that article was, but it certainly had an effect!
posted by Salvor Hardin at 10:31 AM on November 1, 2008


It is hard to understand why they don't vote democratic. I mean, in the primaries, they were given the opportunity to choose who is the more oppressed minority: Lawyers from Harvard or lawyers from Yale.

Lawyers are evil! They know stuff! About law! This means they are out of touch with the common people! We should elect a common person instead, because I want the person running the largest, most powerful country on earth to be just like me! Because I would do a fantastic job running the place with my journalism English degree! Really!
posted by Caduceus at 10:33 AM on November 1, 2008 [12 favorites]


For those who don't know, this was specifically a satire about Chris Buckley.
posted by Class Goat at 10:37 AM on November 1, 2008 [2 favorites]


Dude kind of ruins the satire two sentences in by thinking that the Cosmo is a 60-year-old blueblood drink.

A Cosmo is a 60-year-old blueblood drink. They just called it a Cape Cod, and didn't pretend it was a martini.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 10:40 AM on November 1, 2008 [3 favorites]


and just 57 hours of this remaining. I do have fond memories Tim Blair, however.
posted by dawson at 10:47 AM on November 1, 2008


...as the GOP fragments between conservatives and populist Christianists, and he's mocking them from the perspective of the latter.

Is there a credible movement in place yet to formally split into two parties?

If not, could some wealthy Democrat secretly fund one? Please?
posted by rokusan at 10:47 AM on November 1, 2008 [2 favorites]



You have something in common with McCain: He also can't make any argument for why you should vote for him

I actually voted for Obama in the primary, since then, he lost my vote when not only didn't he filibuster FISA (like he promised), he voted for it. Then he voted to put 3/4 of a trillion dollars on the national credit card and give it to his banker friends. So, I'll be voting (again) for a different Harvard educated lawyer: Ralph Nader.
posted by 445supermag at 10:49 AM on November 1, 2008 [3 favorites]


Salvor: Can we vote them off the isle?
posted by spaceman_spiff at 10:53 AM on November 1, 2008


Solipsophistocracy: No! The Cape Codder is simply vodka and cranberry juice, none of that other nonsense. WASPs don't do complicated things.

Cheddar cheese on soda crackers to accompany.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:00 AM on November 1, 2008


Tim Blair is still blogging.
posted by Class Goat at 11:02 AM on November 1, 2008


God forbid we elect an educated person this time around!

Fortunately, due to a typo and voter purge efforts god doesn't get to vote.
posted by srboisvert at 11:06 AM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


Really good, biting satire generally relies on subtlety to make a point.

This is more of a parody or spoof. Think "Airplane!" which is decidedly non-subtle, for the most part.
posted by raysmj at 11:12 AM on November 1, 2008


none of that other nonsense ... complicated things ...

Like a bit of orange liqueur and a "splash" of lime? 'cause that's the rest of the mix.
posted by raysmj at 11:16 AM on November 1, 2008


To the conservative "manor born"? Ugh.

Such poor breeding!
posted by washburn at 11:20 AM on November 1, 2008


Anything more complicated than gin and tonic is nonsense.
posted by oddman at 11:22 AM on November 1, 2008 [4 favorites]


If only we were all salt of the earth misinformed dumb asses like Iowa Hawk and Joe (Sam) the unlicensed plumber! The world would be ...... just like the last 8 years.

It's weird. The mainstream media is interviewing Joe-Sam the Unlicensed Plumber and the rest of these guys on economic and foreign policy like they think they know what they're talking about. Un-fucking-believeable.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:26 AM on November 1, 2008 [4 favorites]


So, I'll be voting (again) for a different Harvard educated lawyer: Ralph Nader.

Ordinarily I'm all about voting for the individual who best represents you beliefs, because that's the only way to really have a voice in an election.

This time, though, that would be a mistake. There needs to be a definitive winner, a landslide victory, so that everyone knows (a) election fraud was not a significant factor in the win; and (b) understands America's values and the direction in which it is headed.

Third-party voting is a luxury appropriate for those times the train is not coming off the tracks. It gives voice to those who would otherwise not be heard, and can inform those who are elected as to the interests of their constituents. It's a valuable and vital part of the system... but it needs to be used intelligently during times of crisis.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:30 AM on November 1, 2008 [13 favorites]


There needs to be a definitive winner, a landslide victory

Even if there is, the well's been poisoned. For Republicans, it's either win or destroy the country's chances, if there is non-Republican leadership.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:35 AM on November 1, 2008


The key to a mooseburger fête is a good Zin.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:38 AM on November 1, 2008


For Republicans, it's either win or [attempt to] destroy the country's chances, if there is non-Republican leadership.

I'll take the latter, thanks. I remember how hilarious Gingrich & Co. were when they stomped their little feet, while Clinton just sat back and smiled.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:38 AM on November 1, 2008


"Because I would do a fantastic job running the place with my journalism English degree!." I'll get you for that Caduceus.
/English major
posted by Cranberry at 11:45 AM on November 1, 2008


Sorry the strike through journalism did not copy
posted by Cranberry at 11:47 AM on November 1, 2008


I'm also an English major. I would not make a good president. That's my point.
posted by Caduceus at 11:47 AM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


After all the humorless fundies, it's nice to see a conservative who have some fun at the expense of their own party. The "old school" stuff works better than the Palin stuff, but hey, once you've shared a manservant, sharing a mooseburger has got to be a bit of a letdown.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:47 AM on November 1, 2008


Saxon Kane: With shears, presumably. A jib is a sail, and there's considerable variation in their shape. As even the most dilettante yachtsman would know!
posted by hattifattener at 11:50 AM on November 1, 2008


Third-party voting is a luxury appropriate for those times the train is not coming off the tracks.

That's hilarious. Voting how you want is a luxury! During times of crisis (which I will determine), you will vote how I want you to!
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 11:50 AM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


When I see right-wing humor, it's rarely funny and I often wonder if it's just my own dripping liberalism that keeps me from seeing the joke.

I once tried to decide if Mallard Fillmore was funny by looking only at the (rare) non-political strips, and I concluded that without the politics, it's about as funny as "Shoe," which is to say not very.

Anyhow, I thought this was pretty funny, certainly above Mallard Fillmore level. I certainly disagree with the underlying premises -- that Sarah Palin would make an excellent Vice-President, and that the only reason she's getting criticism from Christopher Buckley and George Will is that she's too real -- but I think if I agreed with them I'd find this hilarious.

Getting a little over-analytical here, I think one reason is that good humor often champions the underdog. Not because that's the right thing to do, but just because a rabbit outsmarting a hunter is inherently more funny than a hunter outsmarting a rabbit. Right-wing humor often attempts to portray rich, powerful people as underdogs, and ends up falling on its face because of it. In this specific case, if you practice a bit of tunnel vision, you can see her as the underdog vs. the Buckley/Will set. She's probably less rich, she's certainly less educated, and things aren't looking great for her politically.

None of this, of course, means that I endorse Palin or McCain. But as right-wing humor goes, this is better than most.
posted by lore at 11:50 AM on November 1, 2008 [5 favorites]


Anyone who tries to write satire from a right wing perspective after the last 8 years is, well, special. I'm pleased that his language center remains undamaged, but... where's the rest of him?
posted by fleetmouse at 11:53 AM on November 1, 2008


I once tried to decide if Mallard Fillmore was funny...

Quacks me up.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:55 AM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


one of whom supported a disastrously botched invasion of a country totally unrelated to the attacks of 9/11

Leave Joe Biden out of this!
posted by mattholomew at 11:56 AM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


During times of crisis (which I will determine), you will vote how I want you to!

I'd agree with you, except that I don't have the power to determine how you will vote: I can only offer my opinion.

I think only a maroon would claim the USA is not in a crisis. Are you that maroon?

For that matter, do you believe that a close-call election, in which voting fraud is very likely the reason one or the other candidate is elected to power, could bring anything but further harm to the USA?
posted by five fresh fish at 11:56 AM on November 1, 2008


I actually thought this was really funny, and a spot on caricature of Chris Buckley.
posted by empath at 12:02 PM on November 1, 2008


I think only a maroon would claim the USA is not in a crisis.

"Crisis" is pretty meaningless. Doing or not doing something because of a "crisis" is poor decision making. Identify the specific risk, and take steps reasonably calculated to address it.

For that matter, do you believe that a close-call election, in which voting fraud is very likely the reason one or the other candidate is elected to power, could bring anything but further harm to the USA?

This doesn't particularly trouble me. I think Obama's victory will be by a comfortable margin, even if people leaning toward third-party candidates choose to vote their conscience. Even if the election is very close, apart from some partisan hand-wringing, I don't anticipate major harm.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 12:07 PM on November 1, 2008


Third-party voting is a luxury appropriate for those times the train is not coming off the tracks. It gives voice to those who would otherwise not be heard...
Obama and McCain agree on everything I hate (i.e. more wars, Biden was holding the president of Georgia's hand during the russian invasion and John McCain's staff was on the Geogian payroll), how many times did Obama say "I agree with John" during the debates? Would I feel bad if my protest vote caused McCain to be elected? Not really, McCain was almost Kerry's running mate, he has come close to switching parties several times (Check out the Frontline interview with Ted Kennedy). I look forward to being able to say "Don't blame me, I voted for Nader" when Obama stabs the liberals in the back, just like Bush and the neo-cons betrayed the conservatives. Though I must admit, if McCain wins, I'll leave the Nader bumpersticker off my car until I see how the "2nd Civil War" shakes out.
posted by 445supermag at 12:07 PM on November 1, 2008


William F Buckley Jr did mention Obama's old boy Harvard alma mater as a reason for supporting him. It's not that far off base!
posted by xammerboy at 12:10 PM on November 1, 2008


I really enjoyed this paragraph:

But it's not just American conservatives who are appalled. Just last week conservative New York Times columnist David Brooks and I were enjoying an apres-badminton apertif at the family weekend house in Montauk with my good friend Viscount Klaus-Maria Von Wallensheim, the conservative EU Agricultural Pricing Minister with whom I shared an Alpine chalet and manservant during our years as classmates at a Swiss boarding school. "Kloonkie" (my old school appellation for the Viscount) reported the growing dismay of the Continental Right over Palin's embarrassing enthusiasm for childbirth and Israel.
posted by weezy at 12:10 PM on November 1, 2008


The mainstream media is interviewing Joe-Sam the Unlicensed Plumber and the rest of these guys on economic and foreign policy like they think they know what they're talking about.

Shit, they're interviewing Sarah Palin like she knows what she's talking about. And in those interviews she says we're at war with Iran.
posted by jayder at 12:12 PM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


That's right, folks, don't let reality get in your way when voting your conscience.
posted by Caduceus at 12:19 PM on November 1, 2008


Third-party voting doesn't particularly bother me. In doing so, you send a message to the other two parties. They see those numbers, and want those votes. Maybe, just maybe, they'll want them enough to at least pretend to have policy beliefs congruent with said third party. But mostly, come on, it's a democracy. People have to vote their conscience. Even people who bafflingly see little to no difference between McCain and Obama.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:20 PM on November 1, 2008


Having said that ... ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? NADER?
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:22 PM on November 1, 2008 [6 favorites]


"Crisis" is pretty meaningless. Doing or not doing something because of a "crisis" is poor decision making.

I wouldn't get out the fire extinguisher and spray it around if the house were not on fire, and so I will not do so now. I refuse to let the fire dictate my principled behavior or cause me to behave in a way I would not otherwise.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:32 PM on November 1, 2008 [8 favorites]


This is hilarious. Great writing style.
posted by painquale at 12:34 PM on November 1, 2008


I wouldn't get out the fire extinguisher and spray it around if the house were not on fire, and so I will not do so now. I refuse to let the fire dictate my principled behavior or cause me to behave in a way I would not otherwise.

You started your comment with a quote from one of my comments, leading me to believe you're trying to respond to something I said, but I have no idea what it is you're trying to say.

Do you think I'm opposed to putting out fires? Do you think spraying a fire extinguisher is always an appropriate response to a "crisis"?
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 12:37 PM on November 1, 2008


ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? NADER?
Yes, yes I am. And what drove me there was Obama's AIPAC speech, his FISA vote and the fact that he got huge contributions from "bundlers" at Leman, etc. I don't want more wars, more spying or more corporate welfare. If only he really was a muslim terrorist, at least then we wouldn't be starting shit with Russia and Iran. Nader was a hero in the household that I grew up in (in spite of the fact that my old man drove a corvair, a dual carb, 4 on the floor, red convertible). I might vote libertarian, if I didn't think Barr was a closet repub. I suppose I could write in Ron Paul. Any suggestions for someone who isn't owned by the big corporations?
posted by 445supermag at 12:40 PM on November 1, 2008


even if people leaning toward third-party candidates choose to vote their conscience. Even if the election is very close, apart from some partisan hand-wringing, I don't anticipate major harm.

I would love to not vote for Obama since I have to go on faith, given his short record of service, on how "together" his leadership and policy teams will prove to be. Mrs Clinton was something of a known quantity in this area and had the benefit of 8 years of front-row tutelage of how this country works (or not) and where the various bodies landmines are buried.

However, my "conscience", will NOT me allow my vote increasing the probability of McCain being able to appoint a wackaloon fundie to replace Justice Stevens. McCain showed his cards with the Palin pick. Of course, 50-odd (D) votes in the Senate will moderate the final selection somewhat, but that really didn't help us with the Scalia or Thomas confirmations.

And this whole "conscience" thing is bullshit anyway. Voting your conscience in 2000, if you were a Florida or NH voter, sure got a lot of people killed. Way to go Naderites.
posted by troy at 12:41 PM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


I don't want more wars, more spying or more corporate welfare.

Well, let's hope Obama doesn't lose by one vote, then.

I might vote libertarian, if I didn't think Barr was a closet repub. I suppose I could write in Ron Paul.

Haha, OK. You got me. Well played, sir.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:43 PM on November 1, 2008 [2 favorites]


It seems fairlyh clear to me that Obama will be centrist, much As Clinton was. I am tired, tired, tired, of Obama being called a socialist. When the governent nationalizes failed corporations rather than subsidizing them with my money then we can begin to talk about socialism. Till then, we are a welfare state for the corporations and a capitalist nation for the people.
posted by Postroad at 12:49 PM on November 1, 2008


However, my "conscience", will NOT me allow my vote increasing the probability of McCain being able to appoint a wackaloon fundie to replace Justice Stevens.

Awesome. Vote for Obama, then.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 12:51 PM on November 1, 2008


I don't want

The choice is not between butterscotch pudding and creme brule. The choices are Chocolate Mystery/Leadership and McHero/CrazyFundieLady. There are other items on the menu but these are the only two that are coming out of the kitchen when your vote is counted.
posted by troy at 12:52 PM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


Speaking of voting against your conscience, I was making calls this afternoon and spoke to a 57 year-old woman who said she was going to hold her nose and vote this time for Obama despite the fact that it is totally against her beliefs....as a long-time anarchist. She also said they're mailing in their votes because her husband is a drug dealer and won't go to the polls in person.

I actually voted for Nader in 2000 (from a safely Democratic state), but this year having an Obama landslide will accomplish a lot more than proving Nader still can't get votes.

Surely if an anarchist can vote for Obama, anyone can, right? It's not a game, it's the future of our country.
posted by snofoam at 12:55 PM on November 1, 2008 [2 favorites]


Surely if an anarchist can vote for Obama, anyone can, right?

How do you know she wasn't just fucking with you?
posted by jimmythefish at 1:00 PM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


I have no idea what it is you're trying to say.

The rest of us seem to have understood his point just fine.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:09 PM on November 1, 2008


I actually voted for Nader in 2000 (from a safely Democratic state), but this year having an Obama landslide will accomplish a lot more than proving Nader still can't get votes.

Yes, I think this is more or less the crux of it right here - what do you want to accomplish? What do you want to be a part of? Even if you do see little difference between Obama and McCain - and I really can't get my head around that one, but alright - your choices remain: cast a vote for the elderly intemperate with the glossolaliast, cast a vote for at the very worst at least smidge more progressivism, or cast a vote for that, with the tightening of this race, might mean the difference between the one or the other? First things first - let's keep the Talibaptists out of the White House.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:12 PM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


The rest of us seem to have understood his point just fine.

OK, what was it?
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 1:22 PM on November 1, 2008


The two major parties may see those votes, but it's rare that they even care about those votes in most elections. Candidates win by getting more of their base voters out than the other guy. Every campaign I've volunteered for has focused it's efforts on the base of the party, no independents.

One of the twists of this election appears to be that Obama's campaign has actually courted independents and non-voters. It may be because he comes from community organizing, but really who knows why. That's why the voter rolls have swelled with new registrations. It's a two edged sword though. On election day no one knows what percentage of these people will actually vote. All the effort in money, time, and resources may be down the drain.

It is hard to understand why they don't vote democratic. I mean, in the primaries, they were given the opportunity to choose who is the more oppressed minority: Lawyers from Harvard or lawyers from Yale.

These statements drive me a little nuts. Listen, elections, like the real world, are about compromise. You are going to have to sacrifice some of your primary concerns to get other primary concerns addressed. An elected politician, at the end of the day, has to govern. Any President, Senator, or Representative, no matter how lofty their campaign promises will have to deal directly with monied interests that tend to be opposed to populist and progressive policies. So they make compromises. That way universal health insurance gets implemented, but insurance companies get tax loopholes, subsidies, and other givebacks. Something like FISA gets passed so you can get another Senator's vote on something else.

So yes, I agree that voting comes down to a lesser of two evils, by defining evil as "neither candidate actually will do everything I want him/her to do when in office." But really, Universal Health Insurance isn't a big enough difference between these two candidates? When one guy thinks health insurance is a privilege and one guy thinks it's a right? When on guy thinks that we can "win" the war in Iraq, and one guy thinks we should get out as humanely and quickly as possible? The only thing different you see between these two is that they attended different universities?

I agree with Ralph Nader on more things, but do I think he would govern well? Agreeing with a candidate and determining whether he would govern well are two distinctly different things. In the end I want the candidate to generally agree with me on my world outlook AND I want them to be able to get something done once in office. With that standard, I try to falsify the candidates to it.

Would John Mccain govern well? Probably, he's run a pretty shabby campaign though. Do we share the world outlook? No.

Would Obama govern Well? Good Chance, he's run a very good campaign against one of the best funded machines in democratic politics. Do we share the same world outlook.? Generally, though he'll be more hawkish and conservative than I'd like.

Would Nader govern well? Probably not, he's uncompromising (which is an excellent quality for an advocate, not so good for governing) which will make him difficult to work with. Do we share the same world outlook? Generally, though some things I think he might be to the left of me on.
posted by herda05 at 1:25 PM on November 1, 2008 [6 favorites]


I agree with Ralph Nader on more things, but do I think he would govern well?

yah, lemme just say I was listening to him on the radio two weeks ago and the man, speaking with my leftist hat on, was making sense. I live in CA so my vote is relatively safe, but I still gave it to the O-man since the bullshit "mandates" come from the national vote too.

This country is 5% leftist-leaning and 35% conservative-leaning, so politicians have to tack to the right on everything to get elected to any office other than Mayor of SF, Seattle, Portland, Austin, and a few other liberal meccas.
posted by troy at 1:53 PM on November 1, 2008


Third-party voting is a luxury appropriate for those times the train is not coming off the tracks.

I thought it was freedom of speech, the press, assembly and association, religion, and from unreasonable search and seizure and the deprivation of life, liberty, or property without due process of law that we had to forfeit for the greater good in times of crisis. Now you're telling me I've got to give up the franchise, too?
posted by enn at 1:58 PM on November 1, 2008


Now you're telling me I've got to give up the franchise, too?

not give it up, just use it wisely.
posted by troy at 2:02 PM on November 1, 2008


not give it up, just use it wisely.
It is not wise to limit your vote to only those anointed by the big corporations.

The problem with Obama’s rhetoric rests in the fact that tucked away in his database of 2.5 million donors is the approximately 180,000 power brokers that have funded nearly 60% of his campaign. Included in this list are the more than 594 campaign bundlers including 15 lobbyist bundlers who have accounted for over $140 million in contributions. Included in this list are just 36 bundlers accounting for over $18 million dollars, with two bundlers raising over $1 million, and one over $2 million. These amounts are impressive considering that just 552 individuals have accounted for nearly 1/3 of his total campaign contributions.
Here's a few just from Lehman:
John Rhea - (over $500,000) Co-Head of Lehman Bros. Global Investment Banking
Mark Gilbert - (over $500,000) Lehman Brothers Senior Executive
Christine Forester - (over $500,000) Lehman Brothers Senior Executive
Theodore Janulis – Bundler (over $100,000) & Lehman Brothers Head of Global Mortgages
Nadja Fidelia – Bundler (over $50,000) & Managing Director of Lehman Brothers
posted by 445supermag at 2:29 PM on November 1, 2008


^ LOL. The end result of a vote is either McCain or Obama winning on Tuesday. First-past-the-post systems are necessarily a vote for the lesser evil. And anyway, taking money from people with money is not a crime. Obama strikes me as a VERY intelligent, reflective, and deliberative mind.

McCain, to me, doesn't really have a mind, for what I can see.

Those are the two choices. One of them is going to take over the presidency from Bush, regardless of how many people vote their conscience or refuse to vote for their least-disfavored ticker.

Frankly, Obama's connections to the Chicago School -- the mainstream of NCE thought that traces direct lineage to Rockefeller and his monopolistically-acquired ill-gotten wealth -- disturbs me to some degree, but Obama didn't put that asshole Gramm as his economics advisor.
posted by troy at 2:40 PM on November 1, 2008


How do you know she wasn't just fucking with you?

Entirely possible, but either way, still the most entertaining call I did today. What made it more realistic was that a kid answered the phone and passed me to the woman. Also, don't underestimate the prevalence of methamphetamine use in swing states.

Also, how about that Sarkozy crank call? This is exactly why you don't talk to world leaders without preconditions!
posted by snofoam at 2:44 PM on November 1, 2008


This is a tough audience; I thought the article was witty. It made me feel wistful for a time before my own. Do conservatives like this exist anymore? Did they ever? Because the ones I meet have been bottle-fed Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. They're narrow-minded, unread, rabid, and graceless--and those are the sophisticated ones. I'm reasonably certain they wouldn't "get" this article.
posted by belvidere at 2:52 PM on November 1, 2008 [3 favorites]


Steve, Steve, Steve, Five Fresh Fish didn't declare that we had a crisis. The President said so. He is the decider after all.

(Insert why do you hate America so much hyperbole here.)
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 3:09 PM on November 1, 2008


Uh-oh, apparently Obama is actually related to a terrorist:

In a statement, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds responded, "Barack Obama and Dick Cheney aren't just cousins; they've shared support for the Bush energy policy and the out-of-control spending that John McCain has fought to oppose," he said.
posted by snofoam at 3:47 PM on November 1, 2008


Also, can someone do a poll to find out if anyone in this country, for any reason, thinks Barack Obama and Dick Cheney are dangerously similar? The hypnosis thing was more believable. Why even say this?
posted by snofoam at 3:57 PM on November 1, 2008


They lost me at "for we Republicans."
posted by gubo at 4:04 PM on November 1, 2008


For those who don't know, this was specifically a satire about Chris Buckley.

Does that make it a good post? I mean, I only read the first couple of paragraphs, but it seems like just another of the more irritating type of election filter posts.
posted by Chuckles at 4:19 PM on November 1, 2008


How about we all just do write-in votes for ourselves? How much worse could it be?
posted by jonmc at 4:42 PM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


Fox News: Kenya Wild for Obama. (Pic from front page)

"Believers across Kenya are praying for Barack Obama -- literally. They're making sacrificial offerings to help ensure his victory in a nation where the Illinois senator is considered a native son."

Ug. I always had contempt for Fox news, but this is just disgusting... trying to instill fear into people. And whats up with the "literally"? It's out of place in that sentence --as if they meant to put it in the next one. The entire freaking world is praying for Barack Obama.

Literally.
posted by yeti at 4:44 PM on November 1, 2008 [3 favorites]


Last ditch attempt awards, get your entries in:

- Most Ridiculous
- Most Patently False
- Most Disgusting
- Most Surprising
- Most Racially-tinged
- Special Award: Most Mixed Metaphor
- Dead Horse Most Beaten Lifetime Achievement Award
- etc.
posted by snofoam at 4:57 PM on November 1, 2008


That was fucking hilarious. Tears were shed.

BTW anybody who thinks this was "right-wing humor" really needs to get a brain.
posted by fungible at 5:46 PM on November 1, 2008


OK, what was it?

Steve, I'm not playing your games. Sorry.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:04 PM on November 1, 2008


He can see the Rockefeller Republicans, what's left of them, jumping ship as the GOP fragments...

They haven't been jumping - they were pushed. Today's Boston Globe.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:01 PM on November 1, 2008


From Kirth Gerson's link:

Conservatives sometimes call the Rockefellers "RINOs," for Republicans In Name Only, and blame them for colluding with ideological enemies from across the aisle.

Moderate Republicans "give Democrats cover by supporting their bills, to allow them to be called bipartisan," said Chuck Muth, a Nevada-based writer and blogger who heads the conservative networking organization, Citizen Outreach. "It hurts the GOP when you have people in the party who don't agree with the philosophy. It confuses the brand."


Reading this kind of thing sends my Republican friends (who are of the New England Rockefeller variety) into howling spasms. Their instinctive reaction is rage at the presumption of these fellows. I mean, as far as they're concerned it was their party first, and now these mud eating evangelical types with their air conditioned megachurches are kicking them out. Say what you will about the fpp'd link, but I have heard these lifelong Republicans describe Sarah Palin as "That awful woman" and it isn't just her politics they find objectionable.
posted by atrazine at 10:44 PM on November 1, 2008 [1 favorite]


Just did a quick ctrl+f on this thread, but if it hasn't been mentioned already, Madame Palin has been punk*d by a Quebec radio station. Audio here, transcript with notes here.

The most damning bit (minus the bilingual jokes, the schadenfreude and Ms Palin's obvious excitement at speaking with a, let's face it, celebrity) for me is this:
FNS: I just want to be sure, I don’t’ quite understand the phenomenon "Joe the Plumber," that’s not your husband, right?
SP: Mmhmm, that’s into my husband but he’s a normal American who just works hard and doesn’t want government to take his money.
FNS: Yes, yes, I understand, we have the equivalent of Joe the Plumber in France, it’s called, "Marcel, the guy with bread under his armpit, oui."
SP: Right. That’s what it’s all about, is the middle class, and government needing to work for them. You’re a very good example for us here.
The lady with guns, she who has been whipping up a hate-frenzy against 'socialists', she finds 30-hour work-week-laden, healthcare-ridden France to be a good example for her campaign.

Which, of course, isn't to say that the French system is bad, but to say that it's transparent as hell that she has no idea what she's been mouthing at the rallies.
posted by the cydonian at 10:58 PM on November 1, 2008


Oh FREAK. Didn't notice there was another story on this. Serves me right for choosing the first Palin thread I could find on my RSS feeds. My bad!
posted by the cydonian at 11:00 PM on November 1, 2008


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