Now What?
January 21, 2009 4:33 AM   Subscribe

Right before the trials at Guantanamo were ordered to be halted, a military court was told that Maher Arar was in North America during the time he was supposedly in Afghanistan.
posted by gman (92 comments total) 6 users marked this as a favorite

 
Modern life is reminding me more and more of the movie Brasil.
posted by dunkadunc at 4:53 AM on January 21, 2009


when is someone, (ie Bush and his cronies) going to Pay for all the bullshit they have inflicted on the world.
posted by mary8nne at 5:08 AM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


Those cunning terrorists. It's worse than we thought, Dick: they've found a way to clone themselves.
posted by MuffinMan at 5:10 AM on January 21, 2009


Fuller’s evidence was further undercut by revelations that the FBI notes taken during the interrogation stated Khadr was shown a photograph of Arar and at first said he “looked familiar.” The notes recorded that “in time” Khadr stated “he felt he had seen” Arar.

I love how none of this made the first news reports (at least what we got here in Canada), they were just going on about how Khadr had identified Arar "by name" and they'd never met in Canada. Well-played, Canadian news organizations.
posted by dnesan at 5:21 AM on January 21, 2009


Jesus Christ.
posted by Pants! at 5:37 AM on January 21, 2009


I thought the claim was bullshit when I first read it, but just watching the walkback over the past couple of days has been astonishing.
posted by maudlin at 5:47 AM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


I hope someone has to pay for what happened to Arar. American, Canadian, I don't care. This is monstrous, and whoever is responsible must be held accountable.
posted by orange swan at 5:51 AM on January 21, 2009 [2 favorites]


at first said he “looked familiar.” The notes recorded that “in time” Khadr stated “he felt he had seen” Arar.


Was this "clarification" extracted under torture?
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 5:54 AM on January 21, 2009


Glad they weren't showing him my picture.
posted by stinkycheese at 5:58 AM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


Those cunning terrorists. It's worse than we thought, Dick: they've found a way to clone themselves.

He's the ultraseekrit 14th Cylon model.
posted by rtha at 6:00 AM on January 21, 2009


It's really a shame about WWII... If Americans had only had this sort of self-loathing outrage back then all you poor unfortunates could have grown up under Hitler...
posted by Hovercraft Eel at 6:23 AM on January 21, 2009


Yah dude this is totally like WWII and Bin Laden's tanks are totally rolling through Poland and we totally rounded up random Germans and tortured the shit out of them and now we're such wimps that we torture the shit out of random people but get all wimpy about it when we should be rockin an ass kickin country song!

Also, D- for trolling.
posted by bepe at 6:27 AM on January 21, 2009 [26 favorites]


Also, the commissions are such unmitigated disasters that they ought to run Yakety Sax on a loop during the hearings.
posted by bepe at 6:30 AM on January 21, 2009 [2 favorites]


It's really a shame about WWII... If Americans had only had this sort of self-loathing outrage back then all you poor unfortunates could have grown up under Hitler...

★☆☆☆☆
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:37 AM on January 21, 2009 [30 favorites]


OH SNAP!

And yeah, Arar's case is all kinds of ridiculous. It is a big disappointment that the US continues to ignore what happened here.
posted by chunking express at 6:38 AM on January 21, 2009


Hovercraft Eel - you should totally make your first post about that. Perhaps top it off with a self-link.
posted by gman at 6:39 AM on January 21, 2009 [3 favorites]


You people are so mean. Hovercraft mentioned Hitler! That's at least a D+ or one and a half star on the troll-o-meter.
posted by ZeroAmbition at 6:47 AM on January 21, 2009


Funny, last night I watched the inauguration in an Irish pub in Hamburg. While seeing Americans on CNN getting so excited and showering adulation on Obama, a German guy behind me says, "Wow, the last time we Germans got so excited over a politician, it didn't go so well."
posted by chillmost at 6:51 AM on January 21, 2009 [7 favorites]


Orange Swab - Canada had an investigation, made a full and public apology to Arar, cleared him of any wrong doing and paid him 10 million dollars. Condi Rice wouldn't take his name off the no-fly list.
posted by leftoverboy at 7:07 AM on January 21, 2009 [2 favorites]


"Wow, the last time we Germans got so excited over a politician, it didn't go so well."

Sweet Jeebus & Godwin. Yeah, the Obama-mania gets a bit annoying after a while but that comparison is so ridiculously stupid and unfunny to boot, it makes me want to smack that fellow German around. How old was the guy? Sixteen?
posted by ZeroAmbition at 7:08 AM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


"Wow, the last time we Germans got so excited over a politician, it didn't go so well."

I'll start worrying when Obama blames some ethnicity or minority for all our ills. Like if he were to blame Iraqis for 9/11 or Muslims for all terrorism or gays for Katrina or something ridiculous like that.
posted by DU at 7:10 AM on January 21, 2009 [5 favorites]


"Wow, the last time we Germans got so excited over a politician, it didn't go so well."

Maybe it was just a joke? I think it's funny, but I don't think it's got a point.
posted by Evstar at 7:16 AM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


Khadr, now 22, was scheduled to go on trial Monday but Army Col. Patrick Parrish, the military judge presiding over the case, said he would set a new date because pre-trial hearings would not be completed by Friday.

So he was what, 15, 16 on 9/11?

Ugh.
posted by delmoi at 7:17 AM on January 21, 2009


Also, the WWII/Hitler comment? Flagged as noise.
posted by delmoi at 7:18 AM on January 21, 2009


delmoi, he was 15 when they picked him up. That Canada hasn't tried to repatriate him is a big embarrassment. That he was charged with anything since he's a child soldier also seems like all kinds of stupid. He's probably totally fucked up now. There is video of one of his interrogations on YouTube I think. I didn't want to watch it, but it's there.
posted by chunking express at 7:23 AM on January 21, 2009


Maybe it was just a joke?

Yeah, with his own country's history the butt. You people need to relax.

So he was what, 15, 16 on 9/11?

15. Is Arar news in the U.S. because of the American connection but Khadr is not? He's one of the continuing biggest stories here largely because he was a minor at the time -- and of course because he's the last remaining western citizen in Guantanamo and nobody with any say here seems to want him back. Wiki.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:25 AM on January 21, 2009


I can't stand my MP, but he did bring this up in the house of commons. I can't think of any other MPs really saying much of anything when it comes to this topic.

I fucking hate the current Canadian government. Mother Fuckers.
posted by chunking express at 7:34 AM on January 21, 2009 [3 favorites]


The repatriation issue is a thorny one for me. After x amount of years being held at the Guantanamo terrorist creation camp, who can blame some of these men for their future acts?
posted by gman at 7:34 AM on January 21, 2009


See also: Mohammed Jawad.
Jawad is an Afghan citizen who, in late 2002, was taken into U.S. custody and then shipped from Afghanistan, his home country, to Guantanamo, where he has remained ever since -- more than six full years and counting. Nobody has ever accused Jawad of belonging either to Al Qaeda or the Taliban. Instead, he is accused of throwing a hand grenade at two U.S. soldiers inside his country, seriously injuring both of them. He vehemently denies involvement. At the time of his due-process-less imprisonment in Guantanamo, he was an adolescent: between 15 and 17 years old…

Suffice to say, Jawad's chief prosecutor at Guantanamo -- the Bronze-Star-recipient Lt. Col. Darrel Vandeveld, who since 9/11 has served in Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia and Africa -- became so repelled by the treatment to which Jawad was subjected, by the fact that virutally all of the evidence against him was severely coerced, and by the fact that there is "no credible evidence" to justify his detention, that he first demanded that Jawad be released, then, when Bush officials refused, unsuccessfully demanded to be relieved of his duty to prosecute, and then finally resigned…

In Afghanistan, Jawad was severely beaten, drugged, and threatened with death for both himself and his family if he refused to confess to the grenade incident… The confession Jawad "signed" (with his fingerprint, since he can't write his name) became the centerpiece of the Bush administration's case against him, and yet, it was written in a language Jawad did not speak or read, and was given to him after several days of beatings, druggings and threats -- all while he was likely 15 or 16 years old.

In December, 2003, when he was (at most) 18 years old, Jawad -- according to Guantanamo prison logs -- attempted to kill himself. In 2004, he was subjected to the so-called "frequent flier" program, where, in a two-week period alone, he was moved to a new cell 112 times -- an average of every 3 hours, in order to ensure he was sleep deprived and disoriented. Over the six years at Guantanamo, Jawad was repeatedly subjected to extreme cold, bright lights, and various stress positions. He was often kept in solitary confinement or in "linguistic confinement," isolated from anyone who spoke his only language (Pashto). As recently as May of 2008, while Jawad was at Guantanamo, he was beaten so badly by guards that, weeks later, he still had extreme bruises on his arms, knees, shoulders, foreheads and ribs.

Despite all of that, the Bush administration -- monstrous war criminals to the end -- just last week demanded in Jawad's habeas corpus proceeding that his military commission be allowed to commence this week as scheduled. The U.S. was about to place a tormented and destroyed human being -- a teenager when his ordeal began and now nothing resembling a healthy, functioning adult -- before a completely rigged tribunal and try him, ironically enough, for "war crimes." It was that repulsive travesty which Obama's order yesterday stopped, at least temporarily.
posted by designbot at 7:35 AM on January 21, 2009 [7 favorites]


Yeah, with his own country's history the butt. You people need to relax.

Maybe as part of one cheek. The remainder was basically comparing Obamania to Nazism, which is pretty snide and disingenuous.

Funnily enough, I was at an inauguration party last night, and as we were watching the inauguration, there was a German university student sitting behind me who kept pffting and making dismissive remarks. Maybe Germans are generally wary of cults of personality, but why a person would come to a party filled with Americans and make loudly snide remarks if the whole thing was so unpleasant to him was beyond me. Just seemed kind of teenagerish and immature to me.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:37 AM on January 21, 2009


it makes me want to smack that fellow German around. How old was the guy? Sixteen?

He was probably about 50. If it matters.

Yeah, with his own country's history the butt. You people need to relax.

Exactly. Unclench. It was just a joke. And if you had any understanding of German humor when it comes to dealing with their past, you would laugh as well.

Ganz geschmeidich bleiben alter!
posted by chillmost at 7:43 AM on January 21, 2009 [2 favorites]


People everywhere should be wary of cults of personality, especially if they are formed around someone holding political office.
posted by stinkycheese at 7:44 AM on January 21, 2009 [2 favorites]


German humor

I swear that is not an oxymoron.
posted by chillmost at 7:44 AM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


There is a documentary that was done that aired Sunday night on CBC. The US vs Omar Khadr pt. 1. Pt. 2. Pt. 3. Pt 4.

Pretty substantial evidence is presented to the army prosecutor that Omar didn't do anything as well as some other atrocities like the US soldiers shooting the unarmed wounded survivors of the battle.
posted by chugg at 7:44 AM on January 21, 2009 [3 favorites]


People everywhere should be wary of cults of personality, especially if they are formed around someone holding political office.

Certainly (although I think people should be more wary of cults of personality formed around self-appointed leaders). But showing up at a party of people celebrating the event to spout childish gibberish seems counterproductive to me.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:51 AM on January 21, 2009


German humor

I swear that is not an oxymoron.


I know it's not. Still think this is an unfunny joke.

/clenching
posted by ZeroAmbition at 7:54 AM on January 21, 2009


People everywhere should be wary of cults of personality, especially if they are formed around someone holding political office.

I agree.

I think many Germans and citizens of other former totalitarian countries are very aware of this because of their history. I don't think any German seriously believes that Obama is going to turn America into some totalitarian state.

...spout childish gibberish

It was neither. It was a joke made at the expense of Germans and their history. It wasn't making fun of Americans or Obama. I laughed.

Still think this is an unfunny joke.

I guess you had to be there.
posted by chillmost at 8:20 AM on January 21, 2009


It was neither. It was a joke made at the expense of Germans and their history. It wasn't making fun of Americans or Obama. I laughed.

I was talking about this.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 8:25 AM on January 21, 2009


Seeing as You-Know-Who's no longer the You-Know-What, can we please start the tribunals now?
posted by Sys Rq at 8:34 AM on January 21, 2009


Q: How does the German comedian start his act?
A: Und now, ladies and gentlemen, joke number one!
posted by Meatbomb at 8:34 AM on January 21, 2009 [3 favorites]


chillmost is the master of the derail.
posted by chunking express at 8:38 AM on January 21, 2009


That CBC documentary on Khadr that chugg linked above is a lot more interesting than dissecting the German sense of humour. The high res version starts here.
posted by maudlin at 8:49 AM on January 21, 2009


when is someone, (ie Bush and his cronies) going to Pay for all the bullshit they have inflicted on the world.

They won't. To do so would only serve to re-live the past 8 years and bog-down the new administration in recrimination, ultra-partisanship, and mud-slinging. The wheels would grind to a halt and nothing good will be accomplished.

Remember how things came to standstill while Congress spun their wheels over Clinton lying about a blowjob? Well, you could probably multiply that effect by, oh, infinity, if you were to actually enter into a serious investigation of the Bush administration's activities.

As much as I'd love to see BushCo hung-up by thumbscrews, I really don't want to trash any chance of moving forward by engaging in a destructive, backward-looking witch-hunt.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:50 AM on January 21, 2009


I really don't want to trash any chance of moving forward by engaging in a destructive, backward-looking witch-hunt.

I wouldn't call it a witch hunt. That implies these people are guilty of some sort of fictitious crime. They aren't. Torture, wrongful convictions, kidnapping, etc, etc. In many cases the victims are completely innocent people. That shouldn't be something you 'move forward' from. And really, it should be the victims who decide whether they want to forgive and/or forget and move forward, not joe-random-internet user who hasn't had to deal with any of this shit.
posted by chunking express at 9:13 AM on January 21, 2009 [5 favorites]


when is someone, (ie Bush and his cronies) going to Pay for all the bullshit they have inflicted on the world.

They won't. To do so would only serve to re-live the past 8 years and bog-down the new administration in recrimination, ultra-partisanship, and mud-slinging. The wheels would grind to a halt and nothing good will be accomplished.

1. Indicting war criminals is not petty partisanship.
2. You can't halt what's already halted.
3. Tribunals regarding war crimes committed by the US government would probably not be run by the US government.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:28 AM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


(And god forbid Congress should be halted from doling out hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to whoever asks.)
posted by Sys Rq at 9:30 AM on January 21, 2009


Maybe if the world is lucky Bush or Cheney will fly to Britain and be arrested there.
posted by chunking express at 9:56 AM on January 21, 2009


Careful: jokes in German can be a Weapon of Mass Destruction.
posted by MuffinMan at 9:58 AM on January 21, 2009


And really, it should be the victims who decide whether they want to forgive and/or forget and move forward, not joe-random-internet user who hasn't had to deal with any of this shit.

Exactly, you can't forgive if you're not the victim. It would be like you forgiving your brother for beating his wife. Also, The only thing that prosecutions would "tear apart" is the chummy beltway "elite" high society. Their poor friends would go to jail, and all they did was torture people to near death!

Also, speaking of violent imagery, here's a joke:
Q: What did the German say to the American Neo-Nazi?
A: Nothing, he beat him to death with a tire iron.
Is that joke funny, or just offensive? I'm curious about people's responses.
posted by delmoi at 10:18 AM on January 21, 2009


I think "A: Before or after he beat him to death with a tire iron?" would be funnier.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:26 AM on January 21, 2009


Justice being delivered over a Nazi's cranium? Maybe not funny, but sometimes justice is a grim business.
posted by matteo at 10:28 AM on January 21, 2009


“Justice O’Connor did a fulsome report ... (and) the government acknowledged and accepted its recommendations,” Cannon told the Star.
Cannon doesn't know what fulsome means.
posted by scruss at 10:32 AM on January 21, 2009


I'm having a hard time thinking of a punchline to that. Although I don't think most Germans would beat a neo-Nazi to death with a tire iron. He could probably just make his head explode by talking about engineering or something.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:33 AM on January 21, 2009


Here's what I've never understood about the Omar Khadr case. How can he be charged with "war crimes" after (allegedly) throwing a grenade that killed a U.S. soldier during a firefight? "Providing support to terrorism," okay, sure....you *could*, I suppose, make a case for that, but how can you call an action taken during a full-on firefight a "war crime"?
posted by you just lost the game at 10:33 AM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


Surely this ...

Oh hey! Wait!
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:35 AM on January 21, 2009


...but how can you call an action taken during a full-on firefight a "war crime"?

The same way you can NOT label these people POWs. The same way you can NOT afford them due process.
posted by gman at 10:39 AM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


>when is someone, (ie Bush and his cronies) going to Pay for all the bullshit they have inflicted on the world.

They won't. To do so would only serve to re-live the past 8 years and bog-down the new administration in recrimination, ultra-partisanship, and mud-slinging. The wheels would grind to a halt and nothing good will be accomplished.


*light bulb goes off over head*

Not if an international tribunal like the Hague or the U.N. brings the charges...some people are wondering why Obama was staying curiously silent on this issue, maybe it's because he knows something is looming elsewhere so he doesn't have to do anything himself.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:54 AM on January 21, 2009


...but how can you call an action taken during a full-on firefight a "war crime"?

The US millitary has side-stepped this by declaring them 'unlawful combatants' instead of soldiers. They go over this in the documentary I posted previously.
posted by chugg at 10:54 AM on January 21, 2009


...but how can you call an action taken during a full-on firefight a "war crime"?

So it's the Billy Joel defense, then?
posted by Sys Rq at 11:05 AM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


It's fulsomely repugnant to me that the Canadian (my) government isn't doing more anything to extract Omar Khadr from Gitmo, that festering boil of hypocrisy on the pasty white ass of western civilization.
posted by Artful Codger at 11:10 AM on January 21, 2009


Magic President, fix this shit!
posted by Artw at 11:19 AM on January 21, 2009 [4 favorites]


chillmost is the master of the derail. -Entgleisungsmeister?

Sorry about that.

We now return to our regularly scheduled Obama-rama.
posted by chillmost at 11:42 AM on January 21, 2009


Canada to reassess position on Omar Khadr: MacKay
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:43 AM on January 21, 2009


Also: Heritage minister promises no cuts to culture funding;
James Moore says $45M wasn't cut, just reallocated.


I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:54 AM on January 21, 2009


Wow, Obama is forcing Harper to suck less. That's a nice surprise.

And re: cult of personality, you can be as ecstatic as you want about President Obama, just don't forget to criticize his actions when they fall short of your expectations. And re: torture, well, someone else has said it better already:

“The evidence is sitting on the table,” he stated. “There is no avoiding the fact that this was torture.” He pointed to the U.S. undertakings under the Convention Against Torture in which the country committed that it would criminally prosecute anyone who tortured, or extradite the person to a state that would prosecute him. “The government of the United States is required to take all necessary steps to bring George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld before a court,” Nowak said.
Manfred Nowak, an internationally renowned law professor at the University of Vienna, currently serves as an independent expert for the United Nations looking at allegations of torture affecting member states.

posted by mek at 11:55 AM on January 21, 2009


And re: cult of personality, you can be as ecstatic as you want about President Obama, just don't forget to criticize his actions when they fall short of your expectations.

I'm thinking of making T-shirts of Obama's face, underneath which is written, "Aware He's Only Human, Thanks". Should save a lot of time for everyone.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:03 PM on January 21, 2009 [2 favorites]


Too true, mek, and the CAT defines torture as well, so too bad for continuous re-workings of the word based on what you want to be allowed to do today or excuse what happened yesterday.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:05 PM on January 21, 2009


Is Arar news in the U.S. because of the American connection but Khadr is not?

Neither has been a subject of significant media coverage in the U.S. I would guess 90-95% of Americans are completely unfamiliar with both.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:29 PM on January 21, 2009


From the article: “The president's order leaves open the option of this discredited system remaining in existence.”

Last thing you want to do is close your options. A trap you’re aware of is already diffused. There’s no reason to ‘splode it prematurely. If anything should be done in a careful, methodical manner, it’s the dismantling of this apparatus.
Last thing you want is loose ends so someone comes back in 20 years and says “Oh, but except for this!”

I’d like to see Bush & Co. In the Hague.

“The US millitary has side-stepped this by declaring them 'unlawful combatants' instead of soldiers...”

Yeah, their argument is tautology.

This cult of personality thing is goofy-ass.
All presidents have that. Most politicians have that. Bill Clinton was amazingly charismatic. What bugs me is that Obama’s whole message has been anti-egocentric.

Citizen: Look Barack, you’re only human.
Obama: Yes. I know. I’m humbled to be in this position.
Citizen: You’re not Superman, you know.
Obama: Right. Which is why I’m asking you to help me fix...
Citizen: I’m afraid I can’t do that. I don’t want to get sucked in to some kind of celebrity thing here.
Obama: It’s not about me. We, working together, can heal the country. We’re all going to have to work hard to..
Citizen: Look, just count me out of your head games.
Obama: It’s not a game. Everyone should volunteer and work together to...
Citizen: Look, ease off the ego trip you narcissist!
Obama: ...you want to volunteer to help us or not?
Citizen: It’s not about YOU!

What makes Obama dangerous is not his inspiration. That’s just honest leadership. Not surprising it instills surprise and fear in some folks. We haven’t seen a lot of it so it’s unfamiliar.
No, what makes him dangerous is that he’s so damned smart he could easily form a very powerful coalition, put everyone in lockstep and then go and do just about anything he wanted.
I would have thought this a fairly formidible task. Herding cats sort of thing. As it is, he’s already taken the Clintons on board.
Not a man to be underestimated.
Still, I trust him. That is, I might not agree with everything he does, but I know his motives are pure and I trust his method of execution (in that he tends to be inclusive, makes measured decisions based on data gathered from multiple perspectives and what he ultimately resolves to aim at and what he hits tend to be identical)

I can see how this can be intimidating for some folks. But often it’s easier to have (or make) an enemy than it is a counterpart who will take you at your word.

S’why Limbaugh had no criticism other than ‘I hope he fails.’

I’ve had arguments with people who become total contrarians when you try to reason. I made a (tangential) point to a guy once “We’re all human.” he refused to acknowlege that. Not in the ‘serial killers are monsters’ sort of sense. But in the literal - not all human beings are made of flesh and blood and subject to error - sense.
(and yes, I allowed for Christ - no go either).
Just wanted to stonewall.
Same deal here. Some folks just want the cyclopean myopia because it’s more comfortable.

The ACLU guy too. Not enough to do this, that has to be done as well. Y’know, I wish my mechanic could finish my brakes in 10 minutes, but real labor takes time and attention to detail.
posted by Smedleyman at 1:02 PM on January 21, 2009


"Wow, the last time we Germans got so excited over a politician, it didn't go so well."

Willy Brandt?
posted by CCBC at 1:30 PM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


I can only speak for myself - but what scares and intimidates me is not Barack Obama at all, but the fact of the military-industrial complex being in a country that is starting to tank economically.

That's a dangerous situation for the whole world, and I worry that a dashing of expectations such as has been awarded Obama could prove to be a very dangerous scenario indeed. In other words, the office of the president may be unchanged (in terms of charisma) since the Clintons and beyond, but the situation the US finds itself in is quite different.
posted by stinkycheese at 1:37 PM on January 21, 2009


...how can you call an action taken during a full-on firefight a "war crime"?

Because fighting out of uniform is a war crime.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:57 PM on January 21, 2009


Fired US Attorney To Prosecute Gitmo Cases
posted by homunculus at 2:58 PM on January 21, 2009


Haji Bismullah Goes Home; an Afghan detainee at Guantánamo Bay, Bismullah insisted that he was no terrorist, but had actually fought the Taliban and had later been part of the pro-American Afghan government.
posted by adamvasco at 3:27 PM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


EmpressCallipygos: if an international tribunal like the Hague or the U.N. brings the charges

Reminds me of that Phillippe Sands piece published in Vanity Fair (posted here several months back):

I visited a judge and a prosecutor in a major European city, and guided them through all the materials pertaining to the Guantánamo case. The judge and prosecutor were particularly struck by the immunity from prosecution provided by the Military Commissions Act. “That is very stupid,” said the prosecutor, explaining that it would make it much easier for investigators outside the United States to argue that possible war crimes would never be addressed by the justice system in the home country—one of the trip wires enabling foreign courts to intervene.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 4:30 PM on January 21, 2009 [1 favorite]


Oh, I am so surprised. A captive is tortured, and tells lies to his interrogators in a desperate attempt to end his torture. Lies that were very likely based upon the leading questions his torturers asked.

Fucking idiot Bushian government. Goddamn, but there are a shitload of former Presidential Office administrators who should be jailed for life.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:47 PM on January 21, 2009


If Bush and his cronies end up in the Hague, I will cry with joy.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:02 PM on January 21, 2009 [2 favorites]


Scott Horton has a great article in Harper's a couple months back called Justice After Bush, well worth reading.
posted by chunking express at 6:58 AM on January 22, 2009 [1 favorite]


President Obama signed executive orders Thursday directing the Central Intelligence Agency to shut what remains of its network of secret prisons and ordering the closing of the Guantánamo detention camp within a year, government officials said.
posted by homunculus at 9:52 AM on January 22, 2009


Wow, the secret prisons as well?
posted by Artw at 9:58 AM on January 22, 2009


“President Obama signed executive orders Thursday directing the Central Intelligence Agency to shut what remains of its network of secret prisons and ordering the closing of the Guantánamo detention camp within a year, government officials said.”

How can ya not love this guy?
posted by Smedleyman at 11:14 AM on January 22, 2009 [1 favorite]


How about the super-secret prisons?
posted by mr_roboto at 2:38 PM on January 22, 2009


Speaking of prisons, it's time to build some more.

The Great Robber Barons are burning with jealousy.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:13 PM on January 22, 2009


When Gitmo Was (Relatively) Good
posted by homunculus at 9:12 AM on January 26, 2009


A photo essay on Guantanamo by Paolo Pellegrin.

President Obama's Watch.
posted by chunking express at 10:45 AM on January 26, 2009


Guantanamo Case Files in Disarray: Situation Complicates Prison's Closure
posted by homunculus at 11:50 AM on January 26, 2009


US threats mean evidence of British resident's Guantánamo torture must stay secret, judges rule
posted by homunculus at 6:20 PM on February 4, 2009 [1 favorite]


US threats mean evidence of British resident's Guantánamo torture must stay secret, judges rule

That deserves a FPP.
posted by BrotherCaine at 8:17 PM on February 4, 2009


There needs to be a clean sweep of the political and para-military branches of the USA. They could not be more immoral.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:39 PM on February 4, 2009


There needs to be a clean sweep of the political and para-military branches of the USA. They could not be more immoral.

Naive assumption.
posted by BrotherCaine at 8:56 PM on February 4, 2009


That deserves a FPP.

I can't post again today, but if you'd like to post it yourself, please do.
posted by homunculus at 9:24 PM on February 4, 2009


Top US lawyer warns of deaths at Guantánamo
posted by homunculus at 5:08 PM on February 8, 2009


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