straight over their heads

November 18, 2009 5:09 AM

On November 14 "Robert Erickson" was introduced to the Minnesota Tea Party Against Amnesty as a Minneapolis resident concerned about illegal immigration. Sometimes the devil is in the details, as the supporters of the anti-immigrant Minnesotans Seeking Immigration Reform (MINN-SIR) slowly learn. On the other hand, some of them never quite figured out that "Robert" wasn't on their side...
posted by flapjax at midnite (131 comments total)

Columbus go home!
posted by Xoebe at 5:22 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

POLITICO-PUNK'D!
posted by sexymofo at 5:24 AM on November 18, 2009

A little long on the buildup, but otherwise that was beautiful.
posted by DU at 5:25 AM on November 18, 2009

Definitely a great turn of rhetoric there. Unfortunately it seems to have been lost on the crowd-
posted by localhuman at 5:31 AM on November 18, 2009

As long as we get to send SOMEONE "back where they came from." We really don't care who.
posted by hermitosis at 5:32 AM on November 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

Unfortunately it seems to have been lost on the crowd.

Yeah, but the crowd wasn't the audience. Just the instrument.
posted by Vetinari at 5:32 AM on November 18, 2009 [9 favorites]

:)
posted by caddis at 5:34 AM on November 18, 2009

If the crowd had the ability to think or even pay attention to what someone is actually saying vs what they think they are hearing, they wouldn't have been there in the first place.
posted by DU at 5:34 AM on November 18, 2009 [13 favorites]

Ha. Nicely played. Bravo.
posted by mediareport at 5:39 AM on November 18, 2009

Well that's on skit the writers of SNL don't have to worry about this week.
posted by PenDevil at 5:44 AM on November 18, 2009

Loved it.

But this, yes: If the crowd had the ability to think or even pay attention to what someone is actually saying vs what they think they are hearing, they wouldn't have been there in the first place.

Is the audience punk'd if they don't know they've been punk'd?
posted by rtha at 5:46 AM on November 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

SEKEWRUMM!1
posted by fire&wings at 5:48 AM on November 18, 2009

Well of course this crowd wants to send those Europeans back. Aren't you talking about those French freedom haters and those people from those socialized medicine countries?
posted by marxchivist at 5:48 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Where is this "Europe" he keeps shouting about?
posted by scottatdrake at 6:04 AM on November 18, 2009

This is brilliant.

I don't think that the crowd was fooled -- it was seeded with some ringers (thus the "Europeans suck" yell), while others wandering through the shot looked surprised and annoyed (the middle aged white woman) or suprised and delighted (like the younger black man who started smiling and taking pictures).

But it was still a brilliant moment which showed up so clearly the disgusting hypocrisy of anti-immigrant bigots.
posted by jb at 6:11 AM on November 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

Genius, very well played.
posted by breath at 6:11 AM on November 18, 2009

The audience knew. The people screaming supportive statements were counter protesters that ringed the group. You can see the aftermath here.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:13 AM on November 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

Thanks for that link, AZ. Gotta love how she characterizes counter-protest as "anarchy", and gets the crowd chanting about it...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:23 AM on November 18, 2009

Heh. Twenty years ago in Canada there was a brief hand-wringing about Tamil refugees; at the same time, I was dating someone whose family was largely native. She had an editorial cartoon up above her desk with two guys -- one white, one native -- sitting side by side on a park bench reading the papers with headlines about the immigrant crisis.

The white guy says, "They should have passed stricter immigration laws YEARS ago."

The native: "CENTURIES ago."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:25 AM on November 18, 2009 [11 favorites]

I wish someone would look up when Lou Dobbs' ancestors came to the US and then find a contemporaneous editorial by whatever idiot was in vogue about how the foreigners were ruining the country.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:25 AM on November 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

The audience reaction can be seen more fully in the "extended director's cut." My favorite dude is the older anti-immigration rallier who loses his shit completely and starts cursing a blue streak at one of the kids. (I'm like, "Whoa, Pops! Don't have a heart attack.")
posted by octobersurprise at 6:34 AM on November 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

DEY TOOK EHHAR JHOBS!!
posted by Rhomboid at 6:38 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'd love a transcript.

I was getting my car fixed, and the mechanic was explaining the problem, another mechanic walks up, says something, they try to communicate for a bit, but one doesn't speak English and the other does speak Spanish. After a bit they guy I was working with gets mad, says, "Get away from me, man," to the Spanish speaking guy. He turns to me and says, "If you're going to be in this country you should at least speak the language." I paused, trying to decide if I had the guts, then said, "I agree, man. How's your Apache?" At this point I expected some kind of typical red neck response, but the guy flashes a big Cool Hand Luke smile, and says, "Good point."

I love hijinks like this. There is a beauty in making your point while agreeing with the arguments put forth by the people on the other side.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:42 AM on November 18, 2009 [9 favorites]

I'd love a transcript.

It's in the sidebar of the video.
posted by DU at 6:45 AM on November 18, 2009

I'd love a transcript.

There's a transcript there on the YT page.

At this point I expected some kind of typical red neck response...

Thus demonstrating that it's always good to remain free of preconceptions. People will often surprise you!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:46 AM on November 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

rtha: "Is the audience punk'd if they don't know they've been punk'd?"

Well, it's not like the end goal was them thinking "His satire has completely demolished our ignorant preconceptions! Where can we register to become Democrats?" The end goal was our amused "HURF DURF BIGOTS".

So: mission accomplished - as they say.
posted by Joe Beese at 6:56 AM on November 18, 2009

It's not just "red necks" who take some issue with non English being used in the US of A. My grandfather, a political science prof. who died over a decade ago, never pronounced the Spanish street and place names correctly. This was in Santa Barbara, with streets like Carillo, Castillo, and Calle Real. Instead of "Cariyo" (ish), it was "Carilo." He lived there since the 1950s, and I believe the street names were in place for quite some while.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:03 AM on November 18, 2009

So, let me get this straight, your grandfather, who lived in a part of the country that had Spanish spoken in it since 1769, and became part of Mexico in 1822, refuses to pronounce the street names using the proper pronunciation because they are not English words?

If Santa Barbara were to fall into the sea tomorrow, would he have felt obligated to learn the language of Aquaman?
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:11 AM on November 18, 2009 [4 favorites]

Thanks for pointing out the transcript. It was hard to register what was being said at certain points, and I am having temporary hearing issues. I caught the gist, but was nice to read the whole thing.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:12 AM on November 18, 2009

Did this grandfather *refuse* to pronounce them that way or was he unaware/unable? For that matter, there are a lot of words that came to English from other languages are now pronounced "our way" rather than the original way. What's the "right" way to pronounce "Mexico"? mecksico or meheeco?
posted by DU at 7:19 AM on November 18, 2009

Mesko.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:21 AM on November 18, 2009

Oh, I'm sorry; I was thinking of a Hungarian Nazi.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:27 AM on November 18, 2009

If Santa Barbara were to fall into the sea tomorrow, would he have felt obligated to learn the language of Aquaman?

See, it's ignorant statements like this that undermine civil discourse. First, it's the Seatopians' language you'd have to learn. Second, everyone knows Aquaman is a cartoon. Finally, plate tectonics have Santa Barbara pushing inward. So at worst it will become part of Arizona or perhaps Mexico. Either way you're still better off knowing Spanish than some cartoon language.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:29 AM on November 18, 2009 [15 favorites]

Southern California is weird about mispronouncing spanish. I know people native to Los Angeles who are fluent in spanish but still call Los Feliz 'Loss Feeluhz', because that's what it's called.
posted by mullingitover at 7:41 AM on November 18, 2009

Aquaman was not originally a cartoon, Aquaman is a fictional comic book hero. There is a difference.
posted by marxchivist at 7:44 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Minnesotans Seeking Immigration Reform response:

Printed here (lest they block or delete) -


To: Robert Erickson
Robert - Or Whatever Your Name May Be

I hope you enjoyed your display of adolescents today at our rally,
pretending to share our points of views but uttering opposing views.

I am sure that you felt it to be an very important action to take and
I am sure that in the future, at rallies that you host, you will not mind
others sharing their point of view and turning the tables - as you did.
I am sure that this sort of immaturity will then be acceptable too.

Unfortunately your intentions may be honorable but your mindset
is extremely uneducated, arrogant and misguided.

I hope that you will not experience the reality of what you speak.
But if we are unsuccessful in stopping amnesty and enforcing our
laws and implementing a SENSIBLE legal immigration program....
then I am sure you will not mind taking care of all those individuals
you feel should be able to enter and leave at will.
I am sure you will not mind the water rationing that will be experienced
I am sure you will not mind the devastation to the environment and
am positive that you will be totally comfortable with the government
giving you your monthly allowance seeing you will most likely be
unemployed.

As I am sure you probably realize - but then again maybe not- you do
not have an invite to our next rally. In fact, just so you know our next
event will be open to the public but held at a private facility where those
who's actions are disruptive are escorted out - so I am glad you had
you fun now.

The reality for me is that ..... we allowed those in attendance,
countering our rally to speak - and yet your speech as rejected
Better luck in the future speaking to those who share your uninformed
and misguided stance.


Ruthie
Minnesotans Seeking Immigration Reform
State Chapter for FIRE Coalition
"Restore Order - Secure Our Border"
www.mnsirproject.com
minnsir@...
"The Ruthie Report"
8 pm CST every Thursday
http://www.ConservativeAlliance.org
http://www.BlogTalkRadio.com/TheRuthieReport
posted by AccidentalHedonist at 7:48 AM on November 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

LLOU DOBBS FOR PRESIDENT
posted by Postroad at 7:50 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Look, can't we all just agree that Aquaman should go back to the ocean where he belongs and stop bothering the rest of us law-abiding land dwellers?
posted by never used baby shoes at 7:54 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I thought we'd already agreed that Aquaman is relatively pathetic because his powers are mostly useless on land, and he can't muster up the anger like Namor does to expel people from the sea.
posted by explosion at 7:58 AM on November 18, 2009

I lived in Minneapolis for a few years. It's been a decade now, so am not sure of what cultural clashes are going on now, but when I was there it was often conflict with the Hmong community.

I remember two cases. The first was a woman claimed assault, but the accused man was acquitted. She petitioned to be allowed to curse him in open court. The second case was a man who filed medical claims for an injury and included the price of, I believe, an ox. This was under the grounds that alternative therapies are allowed, and sacrificing an animal helped his recovery, so...

I think both were denied.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:58 AM on November 18, 2009

Dude can speak underwater. You don't fuck with the Aquaman.
posted by bardic at 8:09 AM on November 18, 2009

He put on a "display of adolescents", eh?

There's gotta be a law against that.
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 8:10 AM on November 18, 2009 [8 favorites]

A couple years back I was riding BART and at one stop, a native guy gets up, and before he leaves, he turns and says, "Have a good day you foreigners!".

Sadly, I was the only one to get it.

My story got included in Joe Metro by my homey Geo, so hopefully other folks are getting it too...
posted by yeloson at 8:13 AM on November 18, 2009

A pride of lions. A murder of crows. A display of adolescents.
posted by logicpunk at 8:17 AM on November 18, 2009 [34 favorites]

Playing the "isn't it ironic" card feels pretty shallow considering the long history of violence and discrimination and the current grinding poverty and lack of opportunity on the reservations. Something tells me that few of these young counter-protesters have put much thought or effort into relieving the injustice and inequality faced by Native People.

This stunt doesn't do much to neuter the anti-immigration movement, it does ratchet up the tension and reinforce their opponents' "us v. other" siege mentality*. So, really, I'm all for reforming our immigration system but I think neither of the groups in this video are on my side.
posted by peeedro at 8:19 AM on November 18, 2009

This was in Santa Barbara, with streets like Carillo, Castillo, and Calle Real
One wonders how he felt about Indio Muerto.
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:20 AM on November 18, 2009

To: Robert Erickson
Robert - Or Whatever Your Name May Be

Is it just me, or does that read like some kind of crazy poem. It's like something read at an open mic night in the Bizarro Coffee House.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:22 AM on November 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

Dude can speak underwater. You don't fuck with the Aquaman.

Aquaman can also crush your head like the pressure at the bottom of the ocean, which is a much better reason not to mock his fish-speaking powers.

Of course, I think he is secretly envious of the little wings on the Sub-Mariner's ankles, but, hey.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:24 AM on November 18, 2009

I hope you enjoyed your display of adolescents today at our rally

He showed up to the speech with a bunch of teenagers?
posted by bhayes82 at 8:30 AM on November 18, 2009

Dude can speak underwater. You don't fuck with the Aquaman.


Dude controls like 70% of the Earth's surface. Live within 100 miles of the ocean? Thought so. That's why you respect the A-man.
posted by The Whelk at 8:34 AM on November 18, 2009

I know people native to Los Angeles who are fluent in spanish but still call Los Feliz 'Loss Feeluhz', because that's what it's called.

For that matter, it's called "Loss ANN-gel-us" instead of "Lows an-HELL-ace."
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:35 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

My grandfather, a political science prof. who died over a decade ago, never pronounced the Spanish street and place names correctly. This was in Santa Barbara, with streets like Carillo, Castillo, and Calle Real. Instead of "Cariyo" (ish), it was "Carilo." He lived there since the 1950s, and I believe the street names were in place for quite some while.

I don't know about Santa Barbara, but lots of place names in the US have accepted local pronunciations that are different from their eponyms. Cairo -> Cay-row. Milan -> MEE-lin. Versailles -> Ver-sales. In Austin there's Manchaca and Guadalupe streets, pronounced Manshack and Guadaloop. In Chicago there's Devon -> Duh-VAUGHN and Goethe -> Go-eth or something. Both sounded like murder to my ears, but what can you do.
posted by kmz at 8:35 AM on November 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

RE: Ruthie's reply. Why is it that the people who always call for "speaking English" can never get the damn language correct, themselves? I mean, really?
posted by symbioid at 8:37 AM on November 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

I thought we'd already agreed that Aquaman is relatively pathetic because his powers are mostly useless on land...

He only has one real power (talking to fish) and it's just as useful on land as it is on water, which is to say not very.

Still, you have to love how he keeps plugging away. Asteroid about to hit the Earth and Superman is already up there? Better call my aquatic friends to...help.

He's barely more helpful than Gleek, but he's got top billing. He's doing something right.
posted by DU at 8:37 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

lots of place names in the US have accepted local pronunciations that are different from their eponyms.

Also HOWston for Houston (wtf--it's an American name!!!), MA-drid (Missouri) for Madrid and BER-lin (NH) for Berlin.
posted by DU at 8:39 AM on November 18, 2009

Also, you know, Ver-mont and not verremon.
posted by The Whelk at 8:41 AM on November 18, 2009

WAAAR-shing-ton. I don't get that one, mom. WAAAR-shing machine.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 8:46 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'd just like to say that I'm glad nobody was carrying a gun like teabaggers are wont to do. This is a little insane.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 8:53 AM on November 18, 2009

Live within 100 miles of the ocean? Thought so. That's why you respect the A-man.

Ah, that explains my dissing. The A-man is going to get no respect in Iowa.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:56 AM on November 18, 2009

kmz: I don't know about Santa Barbara, but lots of place names in the US have accepted local pronunciations that are different from their eponyms. Cairo -> Cay-row. Milan -> MEE-lin. Versailles -> Ver-sales. In Austin there's Manchaca and Guadalupe streets, pronounced Manshack and Guadaloop. In Chicago there's Devon -> Duh-VAUGHN and Goethe -> Go-eth or something. Both sounded like murder to my ears, but what can you do.

Also names like 'Illinois' and 'Detroit' and 'America.' And unless you're pronouncing everything in New England with a British accent, you should just accept that certain places have their own names regardless of linguistic origin.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:00 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Southern California is weird about mispronouncing spanish. I know people native to Los Angeles who are fluent in spanish but still call Los Feliz 'Loss Feeluhz', because that's what it's called.

Central Texas is the same way. Guadalupe is pronounced Guadaloop. Manchaca is pronounced man-shack. San Marcos is pronounced San Marcus. It is how you can tell noobs to the area. They're often pronounced the bastardized way in ads on Spanish language radio.

Anglicization of Spanish pronunciation is pretty common. I mean most English speakers say San Diego and San Antonio with the 'a's pronounced as in apple. And most of us say Los Angeles differently than is should be pronounced in español. When went to UC Santa Barbara and lived in the Isla Vista, I first pronounced it its in Spanish and was corrected it was aisle-a vista. But unlike filthy light theif's grandaddy, the most other Spanish names should be.

I've only lived in places with significant latino populations so being bilingual is just normal. These "I'm not a racist but..." racists don't see that our diversity makes us great.

And I applaud this guy up in Minnesota for demonstrated we're all immigrants or children of immigrants.
posted by birdherder at 9:07 AM on November 18, 2009

Ruthie needs to learn to speak and, especially, write English. If you can't learn the English language, lady, GO BACK HOME¹!

¹That'd be back to Europe, presumably, and not back to her house.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:28 AM on November 18, 2009

"well you are white - so why don't you
go back to Europe?"
With that the protester said" I can't because of their immigration laws"

I rest my case......................

haha, yes THAT won the argument. Way to go.

Its a pretty cool, fake, thing that happens when you get a group of like minded people together to talk about how much they all agree on something.

What doesn't happen in this situation, ever, is an open and honest debate. Its soapbox vs. soapbox. How you gonna have a debate when you're the only one with a microphone?
posted by cbecker333 at 9:30 AM on November 18, 2009

Speaking about "straight over their heads", it's interesting to see so many "liberals" supporting his very far-left, racist, anti-American speech. Let me suggest taking a Remedial Civics class at a local community college.

P.S. If anyone disagrees with my take on the speech, spell out exactly how you disagree and then I'll show how you're wrong.
posted by LonewackoDotCom at 9:31 AM on November 18, 2009

Is two cops typical at this kind of rally? It didn't look like there were all that many people there.
posted by Mitheral at 9:47 AM on November 18, 2009

Speaking about "straight over their heads", it's interesting to see so many "liberals" supporting his very far-left, racist, anti-American speech. Let me suggest taking a Remedial Civics class at a local community college.


You do realise his speech is ironic, right, and not meant to be taken literally?
posted by dng at 10:01 AM on November 18, 2009

Mitheral: I think there were at least as many, if not more, counter-protesters there than actual tea-baggers.

I don't know if anyone else caught this, but when the 2 old guys are yelling at the young Native guy, one of them says to him, "You read too much!" Nice. I think that tells me all I need to know about the intellectual foundations of teabaggers.
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:09 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

P.S. If anyone disagrees with my take on the speech, spell out exactly how you disagree and then I'll show how you're wrong.

what i'm trying to figure out is why the anti-illegal immigrant people aren't picketing the businesses that hire them
posted by pyramid termite at 10:28 AM on November 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

Speaking of American ways to pronounce foreign, Minnesota has Montevideo. Now, if you're thinking that it would be pronounced like the South American capital, you would be very wrong. Instead, it's spoken Monty-Video, as if someone was looking for http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119164/ film.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 11:06 AM on November 18, 2009

Argh!! That should be this. Damn italics.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 11:07 AM on November 18, 2009

I used to drive through both "LaFountain" (LaFontaine) and "Versayles", Indiana, and dated someone from LaFayet, Georgia, so it's hardly constrained to Spanish.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:17 AM on November 18, 2009

what i'm trying to figure out is why the anti-illegal immigrant people aren't picketing the businesses that hire them

Because that would hurt white people, which is exactly opposite of the point.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:18 AM on November 18, 2009

dng: No one who's welcome in the tea party or anti-II movements is calling for all Hispanics or indigenous to be expelled from the U.S. If they were doing that, then his speech might make sense.

And, apparently pyramid termite has never heard of things like this, or chose to forget about it temporarily.
posted by LonewackoDotCom at 11:20 AM on November 18, 2009

Pope Guilty: thanks for playing the race card. Good job. Other Erickson supporters might want to see who you're ultimately supporting.
posted by LonewackoDotCom at 11:23 AM on November 18, 2009

Eponysterical trolling.
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:25 AM on November 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

LonewackoDotCom: dng: No one who's welcome in the tea party or anti-II movements is calling for all Hispanics or indigenous to be expelled from the U.S. If they were doing that, then his speech might make sense.

So when, say, Lou Dobbs complains that New Orleans might as well be called 'Nuevo Orleans,' that bit of anti-Hispanic sentiment conjoined with his screed against illegal immigrants is an unfortunate coincidence, right?
posted by shakespeherian at 11:45 AM on November 18, 2009

dng: No one who's welcome in the tea party or anti-II movements is calling for all Hispanics or indigenous to be expelled from the U.S. If they were doing that, then his speech might make sense.

That is not what Erickson said, there was no mention of Caucasian people. He simply stated that we should deport all Europeans here illegally as well as their anchor babies, anchor grandbabies, etc. That's exactly what the "anti-II movements" do constantly call for.

The "deport 'em all" policy is among the most idiotic, impractical and inhumane policies punted around by the right nowadays, but that's a separate argument.
posted by uri at 11:48 AM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

Also HOWston for Houston (wtf--it's an American name!!!)

The street in New York is decades older than the city in Texas.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 11:56 AM on November 18, 2009

P.S. If anyone disagrees with my take on the speech, spell out exactly how you disagree and then I'll show how you're wrong.

I disagree with you, because the speech was not meant to be taken literally, but instead was an inversion of general anti-immigrant points to include European immigrants dating back to Columbus, because, after all, they were immigrants too. It's point is to highlight that we are a nation of immigrants -- hell, even the indiginous Americans are supposed to have come over on a land bridge quite some time ago -- and it's the hight of hypocrisy to settle into a country as recently as one or two generations ago and then deny that same opportunity to immigrants merely because they are more recent than that.

I'd be curious how you intend to show that my preceding paraphraph was wrong.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:03 PM on November 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

Aquaman was not originally a cartoon, Aquaman is a fictional comic book hero. There is a difference.

Aquaman is an ideal. I am Aquaman.

That's exactly what the "anti-II movements" do constantly call for.

Jesus. I just spent 5 minutes on the ALIPAC forums to see if this was substantiated. I can't recommend it. If you're trying not to hate your fellow Americans, stay away from it. Your worst fears will be confirmed.
posted by lumpenprole at 12:10 PM on November 18, 2009

Aquaman was not originally a cartoon, Aquaman is a fictional comic book hero. There is a difference.

This is a weird place to enter this thread.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:30 PM on November 18, 2009

In Savannah, I bought a bus ticket to Beaufort, SC. "I need a one-way to Bowfort," I said.

The clerk looked at me. "You mean Byoofert?"

I felt sad.
posted by cereselle at 12:30 PM on November 18, 2009

I usually see teabagger nutjobs in news articles and newspaper comment secionts, but here's one come to brighten our day right here on MeFi!
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:31 PM on November 18, 2009

@pope_guilty: i was just about to say "Looks like we done got ourselves one o' them, whatchacallit 'Pay-lee-o-conservative' right here in teh middle of ol' mefi county... shucks"
posted by symbioid at 12:43 PM on November 18, 2009

and yes, i know that mefi isn't twitter.
posted by symbioid at 12:44 PM on November 18, 2009

shakespeherian: You forgot to provide the context; search for "nueva" (not "nuevo") here. There's nothing wrong with referring to the city by that name in order to indicate what the Bush admin was doing, with help from the Dems. Neither cared much about finding jobs for the residents of that city, preferring instead to warehouse them in other cities and bring in illegal aliens to take the jobs they could have been doing.

uri fails to understand that this is the U.S.; U.S. citizens cannot be in the U.S. illegally. To say that they are the equivalent of illegal aliens is to deny the Constitution and sovereignty of the U.S. I wish I could find an "explainer" type - the type of people who write Dummies books - who could make that point in a way that might be more understandable for some.

That handles Astro Zombie's comment to a good extent, and for most of the rest here are some of the differences between yesterday's immigration and that of today. Note the last word in the URL.
posted by LonewackoDotCom at 12:56 PM on November 18, 2009

Speaking about "straight over their heads", it's interesting to see so many "liberals" supporting his very far-left, racist, anti-American speech.

wow... did you really admit to not understanding the concept of satire in front of almost 100,000 people?
Hint: he is using hyperbole and exaggeration to point out the absurdity of their argument.
Now go read some Jonathan Swift.
posted by Kellydamnit at 1:05 PM on November 18, 2009

LonewackoDotCom:
shakespeherian: You forgot to provide the context; search for "nueva" (not "nuevo") here. There's nothing wrong with referring to the city by that name in order to indicate what the Bush admin was doing, with help from the Dems. Neither cared much about finding jobs for the residents of that city, preferring instead to warehouse them in other cities and bring in illegal aliens to take the jobs they could have been doing.

The point is that complaining that cities should now be called by Spanish names is not anti-illegal-immigrant, but anti-Spanish-speaker. The story wasn't about the change in demographics; conflating 'speaks Spanish' with 'illegal immigrant' is xenophobic racism.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:07 PM on November 18, 2009

Wow, that wehirealiens site is unreal. Basically, they go around stalking people who they think are illegal or hire illegals (1 guess on what criteria they base this on... ) and post personal details on the web. example (note the lovely comments such as "GO PATRIOTS GOD HATES SPIKS").

No actual evidence of illegality in the ones I checked out, just skin color.
posted by wildcrdj at 1:29 PM on November 18, 2009

I'm sorry this is so difficult to understand, however, there's nothing wrong with calling N.O. by its Spanish name in order to indicate what Bush and his allies in the Dem party were doing.

It's also more than a bit odd that, faced with un-American activities (so to speak) by Bush and the Dems that enriched corrupt contractors and a foreign government and hurt everyone else in the U.S., all those at this site can try to do is smear Dobbs. Really try your darnedest not to be a useful idiot for crooks.
posted by LonewackoDotCom at 2:01 PM on November 18, 2009

uri fails to understand that this is the U.S.; U.S. citizens cannot be in the U.S. illegally. To say that they are the equivalent of illegal aliens is to deny the Constitution and sovereignty of the U.S. I wish I could find an "explainer" type - the type of people who write Dummies books - who could make that point in a way that might be more understandable for some.

This is a rather pedantic point to bring up to address what has already been pointed out as satire. If you listen to Erickson's speech, he doesn't refer to the "United States" at any point, he only refers to "America." Admittedly, he does refer to a "country" and "nation," but within the context of his statements, U.S. Citizens are illegal immigrants in America, not the United States.

I'm not arguing in favor of the view espoused and I seriously doubt Erickson is either.


That handles Astro Zombie's comment to a good extent, and for most of the rest here are some of the differences between yesterday's immigration and that of today. Note the last word in the URL.

Astro Zombie's comment should not be conflated with mine. He never mentioned the legality of immigrants, so you did not address his point.
posted by uri at 2:12 PM on November 18, 2009

LonewackoDotCom:
I'm sorry this is so difficult to understand, however, there's nothing wrong with calling N.O. by its Spanish name in order to indicate what Bush and his allies in the Dem party were doing.

Could you please explain what you mean by this? I'm incredibly stupid.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:46 PM on November 18, 2009

P.S. If anyone disagrees with my take on the speech, spell out exactly how you disagree and then I'll show how you're wrong.

Kinda missed the point of discussion, didn't you there champ?
posted by lumpenprole at 3:01 PM on November 18, 2009

I'd be curious how you intend to show that my preceding paraphraph was wrong.

Because it's a paraGRAPH not a paraPRAPH.

QED.
posted by Saxon Kane at 3:21 PM on November 18, 2009

and because it had to be done

METAFILTER: Spell out exactly how you disagree and then I'll show how you're wrong.
posted by Saxon Kane at 3:22 PM on November 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

Well, as Studies Have Shown, some folk — conservative/rightwinger folk — can't tell when a pundit is using satire.
posted by five fresh fish at 3:24 PM on November 18, 2009

To: Aquaman
Arthur - Or Whatever Your Name May Be

I hope you enjoyed your display of herioc porpoise today at our rally,
pretending to be a member of the Injustice Legue but taking control of our Atomic Powered Grey Whales and destroying our headquarters.

I am sure that you felt it to be an very important action to take and
I am sure that in the future, at Justice League meetings, you will not mind
others infiltrating as a pretend hero and turning the tables - as you did.
I am sure that this sort of heriocs will then be acceptable too.

I hope that you will not experience the reality of what you speak.
But if we are unsuccessful in ruling the world with an iron fist and implementing a SENSIBLE legal immigration program for Kryptonians, Atlanteans, Daxamites, etc....
I am sure you will not mind the hero population explosion that will be experienced
I am sure you will not mind the devastation due to fights from hero "misundertandings" and mind controlled clones and evil alternate earth versions and
am positive that you will be totally comfortable with the government
giving you a monthly bucket of herring seeing you will most likely be
unemployed by heroes who do not need water, or even tro drink water!

As I am sure you probably realize - but then again maybe not, as this is written in AMERICAN not underwater bubble talk - you do NOT have an invite to our next meeting. In fact, just so you know our next event will be held in a private underground bunker or an alternate dimension where those who's actions are disruptive are terminated by robot guards - so I am glad you had
you fun now.

Better luck in the future speaking to those fishie friends of yours.

Ocean Master
Human Ocean-Themed Villains Seeking Immigration Reform
"Restore Order - Secure Our Oceans"
posted by benzenedream at 3:27 PM on November 18, 2009 [7 favorites]

I got into an argument with an anti-immigrant on a local newspaper comment thread recently. He actually argued that Native Americans were racist for not wanting Europeans to come to their country! Then he quickly switched gears and argued that we weren't illegals because American Indians "didn't have laws" against it.
posted by msalt at 3:28 PM on November 18, 2009

Anywho, Erickson's speech - while an attempt at satire - is actually a core part of far-left thinking, especially that of militant Chicanos. For instance, do a find for "rats" here. What's ironic is that "Erickson" is among the rats the speaker was referring to, and he wasn't engaging in satire.

For another example, here's former Colorado state senator Polly Baca telling someone to go back to Europe. What's ironic in that case is that she's of Spanish descent.

And, here's Obama sounding like a "reconquista".
posted by LonewackoDotCom at 3:57 PM on November 18, 2009

Will someone hold him down while I teabag him?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:36 PM on November 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

I would like to shake this young man's hand.
posted by Ouisch at 4:43 PM on November 18, 2009

And buy him a Coke.
posted by Ouisch at 4:43 PM on November 18, 2009

...here's Obama sounding like a "reconquista" sensible and intelligent person stating an acknowledged fact of history, in his typically clear and level-headed way.

I fixed that for ya, Lonewacko! I know you'll wanna rush over to your blog there, (24AheadLonewacko.com) and fix it there, too! No need to thank me, I'm happy to be of service.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:00 PM on November 18, 2009

uri fails to understand that this is the U.S.; U.S. citizens cannot be in the U.S. illegally. To say that they are the equivalent of illegal aliens is to deny the Constitution and sovereignty of the U.S. I wish I could find an "explainer" type - the type of people who write Dummies books - who could make that point in a way that might be more understandable for some.

Have you ever read A Modest Proposal? I would be very interested to know your opinions on consuming babies as a way to deal with poverty.

On a completely unrelated note, I suggest you read up on Horatian satire.
posted by armage at 5:10 PM on November 18, 2009

Interesting that LonewackoDotCom's posting history is nothing but vitriolic anti-immigrant bile, including a fucked-up conspiracy theory, which he appears to fully believe, that Bush and the Democrats used Katrina to empty New Orleans of whites and blacks and fill it with Mexicans. In fact, that appears to be the only thing he talks about on MeFi, including AskMe. Curious.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:02 PM on November 18, 2009 [2 favorites]

a fucked-up conspiracy theory, which he appears to fully believe, that Bush and the Democrats used Katrina to empty New Orleans of whites and blacks and fill it with Mexicans.

Not that unreasonable really, if you leave the Democrats and whites and Mexicans out.
posted by msalt at 6:17 PM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'm sorry this is so difficult to understand, however, there's nothing wrong with calling N.O. by its Spanish name in order to indicate what Bush and his allies in the Dem party were doing.

I second shakespherian. I am also very dumb, and do not know what you are talking about. Please explain it with small words.
posted by odinsdream at 6:31 PM on November 18, 2009

Bush and his allies in the Dem party

Interesting.

Bush was a Republican President with a Republican Congress, a Republican Supreme Court, and hugely popular with an imbecilic unquestioning Republican base (until his last year and half in office).

But now that we can see the abject disaster of his Republican Policies, implemented by his Republican Majority, and rammed down the throat by his Republican PR Machine called Fox news, suddenly it's his Democrat allies that are responsible?

It's like Sarah Palin's new book talking about how bad "Obama's TARP" and "Obama's war in Afghanistan" are, when these were all Bush policies she fucking supported.

Keep re-writing history you assholes. Eventually you'll lose track and get it half right.
posted by tkchrist at 6:39 PM on November 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

Lou Dobbs bills himself as an independant ... for tax purposes.
posted by phoque at 6:40 PM on November 18, 2009

Interesting that LonewackoDotCom's posting history is nothing but vitriolic anti-immigrant bile

In other corners of the internets, under different names, he's quite the birther, too. I'm only surprised that he hasn't brought those hobbies here, too.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:54 PM on November 18, 2009

Man, we ain't got to go following this guy around the internet to find nonsense to laugh at. There's plenty in this thread right here! Like the part where he said that kid wanted cede U.S. sovereignty. What the hell was that all about?
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 7:20 PM on November 18, 2009

As the reader can see, we've reached the dregs of this thread with MF's regulars giving up on trying to make an argument and instead simply engaging in ad homs, including those they'd never say to my face. Even more shocking is the level of ignorance shown by the others before them; this is like visiting a remote village where they're still washing clothes in the stream. Those above are completely unaware of how closely what Erickson said tracks the "reconquista" movement; they're unaware of whose interests they're actually serving, and they're unaware of all those involved in encouraging illegal activity inside the U.S.

For the latter, here's my contemporaneous coverage of Hurricane Katrina and illegal aliens. If you start at the first post and work forward to that page, you can see Americans being screwed by Bush and the Dems, who were in effect working together. I realize that's difficult for some to understand, but perhaps if you joined into discussion groups you could pool your brainpower and eventually understand it.
posted by LonewackoDotCom at 7:31 PM on November 18, 2009

He put on a "display of adolescents", eh?

"The Aristocrats!"
posted by stargell at 8:06 PM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

There is a continuous "whooshing" sound over top of lwdc's head.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:29 PM on November 18, 2009

LonewackoDotCom: I realize that's difficult for some to understand, but perhaps if you joined into discussion groups you could pool your brainpower and eventually understand it.

Tell me more about the MF regulars resorting to ad homs.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:43 PM on November 18, 2009 [3 favorites]

Yeah! Ad Homs!

Represent.
posted by peeedro at 8:50 PM on November 18, 2009

As the reader can see, we've reached the dregs of this thread with MF's regulars giving up on trying to make an argument and instead simply engaging in ad homs, including those they'd never say to my face.

This reader can't see anything of the sort, Lonewacko. What this reader sees is a string of bizarre comments from you that are largely inscrutable or that contain links to your own blog* that are basically, well... ignorant drivel. And I'd say that "to your face", I reckon, if you weren't, you know, anonymous here. Anyway, consider this addressed to your face: you characterize President Obama as a "reconquista" in one post at 24Ahead (that you've linked to in this thread). I mean... that's your argument? And you expect some sort of discourse on that? Haha! You're a funny guy!

And in another post there you defend poor little Sarah Palin against the evil media that's mischaracterizing her. I mean, Sarah Palin? Really? You've gotta be joking. You're... you're joking, right? And taking a look at the top post there right now... is that really... no, wait, REALLY? An Obama citizenship post? Bravo! You're battin' a thousand here, Loney!

If you haven't gotten the message by now, here it is: a lot of people here are just not going to bother to "make an argument" with you, because, frankly, you are living up to your username, big time.

*You've listed it as "website" on your profile page, anyway.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:09 PM on November 18, 2009 [1 favorite]

I haven't done that Lonewacko! (great name, by the way) Howzabout you produce some evidence that this kid was seriously advocating that Barack Obama cede U.S. sovereignty. Unless you think someone else bears the burden of proof in this respect of course.
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 10:32 PM on November 18, 2009

One of the sad things about the birther/palin crowd is that they feel so very strongly that they ought to be heard. Feel that they have a "valid viewpoint." Think that others should respect their opinion.

They will never understand that their passion is, in fact, getting exactly the attention and respect that it deserves. Just as the schizoid will never understand that their reality of "Greys" or "God talking through the dog" or other delusional ideas are, in fact, not actually real.

Fortunately, the schizoid's problems may respond well to treatment.

The birther/palin/lonenutdotcom type? Alas, we have to suffer through their incoherent rants and subsequent sputtering of righteous indignation as everyone scoffs at their lunacy. Let's just count ourselves lucky that this latest loon is not prone to ranting.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:35 PM on November 18, 2009

Insert "untreated" in front of the first schizoid; and add "anti-immigrant/teabagger" to the birther/palin bits.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:37 PM on November 18, 2009

Speaking of condescension, it's interesting to see so many "liberals" supporting his very far-left, racist, anti-American speech. Let me suggest taking a Remedial Civics class at local community college. Because not only are you small minds incapable of cutting the mustard at a state college; no, it is worse than that. It has to be a local community college, because the one in the next town over will prove too confusing for you.

If you disagree with my take on this issue, spell out exactly how you disagree and then I will link to my blog. What? You still disagree with me? No, you're wrong, you do not. You can't; I linked to my blog.

shakespeherian: When you quoted Lou Dobbs spouting his racist vitriol, you forgot to mention that one of the words he used in his sentence was Spanish, and Hispanic people use Spanish words all the time, and so there's nothing wrong with Lou Dobbs using it either, especially as Dobbs was only using it to segue to discussion about a conspiracy theory that is 100% totally true. If you don't believe it, here is a link to my blog.

uri, who is simple-minded, fails to understand USA! USA! Oh, it is so frustrating trying to communicate with you simpletons. How I wish I could find someone capable of conveying my lofty ideas to your moronic level. Like one of those guys who writes books for dummies. Perhaps, if we could find one of those people, he could translate my ideas to you.

There! Now that I have smitten Astro Zombie with my infallible logic, I will dispense with any further argument with a link to my blog that has the word "fallacy" in the url. Q.E.D., bitches.

I am truly sorry, and I mean this in the least condescending way possible, that this is so difficult for you half-wits to understand. Bush and the Dems were working together this whole time, and if I say "Bush and the Dems" enough times your small brains can absorb the idea that Bush and the Dems were one in the same; in fact, we may as well refer to the Bush as having been a Democrat. Given this revelation, it confounds me--and that is saying a lot, for my brain is superior--that anyone could find the time to interpret Lou Dobbs's racist, xenophotic epithets as "racist" or "xenophobic." Really, you must try harder not to be idiots.

Anywho! The way that I can tell that Erickson's speech wasn't satire is because some totally other unrelated person once made similar remarks, and that person wasn't using satire, and so neither can Erickson be. Let me state it plainly, even though plain statements are still too complex for you: Contrary to all appearances, Erickson was not engaging in satire.

What? My plain statement isn't enough for you? Well! This one time, another unrelated person told someone to go back to Europe, and this is further evidence of Erickson's true intentions.

Dear reader--and I am not addressing the MF regulars who have likely not even learned to read and so cannot read this anyway--Dear reader, you can see that I am surrounded by morons, but lo! It is worse, for they are cowards, too! Amongst their grunting and squeaking I can detect Ad Homs, and it is a fact that they would not say these to my face, for in addition to being smart I am strong, and I am a yellow-belt, and I know seven places to touch a man that will cause him to drop dead instantly. Though they understand nothing else, dear reader, even the MF regulars, like the dumbest animals of the forest, know when they have been out-matched by strength.

The ignorance here is so shocking that I feel I am in a remote village surrounded by people who wash their clothes in a stream, and Dear Reader, you know what those people are like. These people do not understand the solid evidence I laid out showing links between Erickson and the reconquista movement, nor can they see what this has to do with the Democratic Bush administration's plan to sell La Nueva Orleans to Mexico.

I realize this is all difficult for you idiots to understand. Take some advice from me: if you work hard to convey your ideas to people--and your ideas will only be bad, because you are a cretin--but if you take the time to explain your ideas to people like I do on internet message boards, people will like you and you will get friends and if you get friends then maybe you and your friends can work together to maybe someday, eventually, understand my ideas which are on my blog.
posted by The Loch Ness Monster at 10:41 PM on November 18, 2009 [21 favorites]

As the reader can see, we've reached the dregs of this thread with MF's regulars giving up on trying to make an argument and instead simply engaging in ad homs, including those they'd never say to my face.

One of my co-workers said something blatantly ignorant in a similar manner to your comments, smacking of racism and bile, and I actually did tell him to fuck off. To his face. About six hours ago.

Sometimes, there's really nothing else to say.
posted by krinklyfig at 11:11 PM on November 18, 2009

Metafilter: I linked to my blog.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:55 AM on November 19, 2009 [2 favorites]

Well of course The Loch Ness Monster will disapprove of the truth getting out.
posted by shakespeherian at 4:39 AM on November 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

including those they'd never say to my face

I would.
posted by tkchrist at 10:55 AM on November 19, 2009

Bush and the Dems.

At face value, it seems absurd. I mean, wasn't it Democrats that blocked all those power grabs from the executive branch? Wasn't it lovely the way the party stood behind Ambassador Wilson, and refused to accept the baloney about weapons Iraq didn't have?

Seems the branding is loosing its identity.
posted by Goofyy at 11:36 AM on November 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

Bush and the Dems

It's absurd because its a symptom of the ridiculous amnesia Republicans have been developing wherein the president they voted for, along with the Republican Representatives, Republican Senators and Republican Governors they supported were in virtual lockstep for the six years that party controlled every branch of the Federal Government. Perhaps you missed 2006-2008 when Bush was no longer a "conservative" as it became clear that his policies were a complete, unmitigated disaster.

I won't deny that the Democrats were divided, meek, disappointing and in many cases accomodating or even supportive, but they were NOT the ones in the driver's seat.
posted by uri at 12:29 PM on November 19, 2009 [1 favorite]

it's

Dammit
posted by uri at 12:29 PM on November 19, 2009

including those they'd never say to my face.

Hmmm... I think you're misunderestimating the crowd here...
posted by Pantengliopoli at 12:53 PM on November 19, 2009

Uri: Of course. I haven't forgotten, and I do note the wicked clever trick of saying "Bush and the Dems". But I also don't want to let folks rest on the notion that everything is okay, now the Democrats are back in control.
posted by Goofyy at 7:49 PM on November 19, 2009

I won't deny that the Democrats were divided, meek, disappointing and in many cases accomodating or even supportive, but they were NOT the ones in the driver's seat.

They didn't exactly go to great lengths to determine the truth, nor did they do much to inform the public as to the truth, nor did they do much to oppose the bad decisions the opposition was making, nor have they done much to do anything about anything that happened.

If they were not complicit, I'm at a loss for a better term.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:05 PM on November 19, 2009