Duke Nuke'm Never
December 22, 2009 6:56 AM Subscribe
Duke Nukem Forever is officialy dead, here's why
More info
Trailer
Wikipedia
Official site
Previously: 1, 2, 3
"when development on Duke Nukem Forever started, most computers were still using Windows 95, Pixar had made only one movie — Toy Story — and Xbox did not yet exist."
More info
Previously: 1, 2, 3
In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead
posted by DecemberBoy at 6:58 AM on December 22, 2009 [12 favorites]
posted by DecemberBoy at 6:58 AM on December 22, 2009 [12 favorites]
Aw, man...that's too bad. For a while now I've been wanting to play a FPS with a grizzled space marine character, and there's just nothing out there like that, y'know?
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:58 AM on December 22, 2009 [26 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:58 AM on December 22, 2009 [26 favorites]
Oh, just give it a while.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:07 AM on December 22, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:07 AM on December 22, 2009 [3 favorites]
You can't discourage me. I'm still holding out hope for "Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League"
posted by kc8nod at 7:07 AM on December 22, 2009 [54 favorites]
posted by kc8nod at 7:07 AM on December 22, 2009 [54 favorites]
> He didn’t just want it to be good. It had to surpass every other game that had ever existed, the same way the original Duke Nukem 3D had.
I must have played a different version of Duke Nukem 3D.
posted by you just lost the game at 7:08 AM on December 22, 2009 [15 favorites]
I must have played a different version of Duke Nukem 3D.
posted by you just lost the game at 7:08 AM on December 22, 2009 [15 favorites]
Confession time: I've never played any of the Doom-derived games like DN3D past the free demo; some of that has to do with not having a PC of my own until well after Quake was released (I've mostly been a Mac person), some of it has to do with being pretty happy with Marathon and its various mods/TCs and finding these games to be unsatisfactory in comparison, but a lot of it has to do with not particularly wanting to have a character that's basically what you suspect Jim McMahon's secret self-image is. (DNF has been in limbo long enough that Brock Lesner is a more appropriate reference now.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:09 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:09 AM on December 22, 2009
Back when this was first being kicked around, I was playing with a little somethin' somethin' I recall as the pirated Copeland beta. Which grew up to be a big somethin' somethin' called Halo. I like strippers as much as the next guy, but what those Bungie kids (yes, kids!) did back in the day with the early Marathon/PiD games really knocked my socks off. Plus, now if I want strippers, I can play GTA.
Duke always seemed to me like a cross between the Kool Aid Man and my middle school gym teacher.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:10 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
Duke always seemed to me like a cross between the Kool Aid Man and my middle school gym teacher.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:10 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm shocked! Shocked, I say! Seriously, did anyone really believe this was still going to happen?
And I say this half wondering if they aren't about to pull a silly PR stunt and announce its availability next spring after all...
posted by Zinger at 7:11 AM on December 22, 2009
And I say this half wondering if they aren't about to pull a silly PR stunt and announce its availability next spring after all...
posted by Zinger at 7:11 AM on December 22, 2009
. (Duke - the only one of it's ilk that was easy to get into and good for casual office/pickup gaming)
posted by jkaczor at 7:13 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by jkaczor at 7:13 AM on December 22, 2009
This has been the poster child for vaporware for a LONG time.
posted by empty vessel at 7:14 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by empty vessel at 7:14 AM on December 22, 2009
> He didn’t just want it to be good. It had to surpass every other game that had ever existed, the same way the original Duke Nukem 3D had.
I must have played a different version of Duke Nukem 3D.
That was what I was thinking when I read it. The only thing I remembered about Duke's technology that was better than Doom's was that it had a third axis, you could fly a little and that the environment had some stuff to interact with. The graphics were ok, but even Doom seemed better at the time for graphics.
They should have just stuck to being the "funny" FPS, and they'd have done fine with regular releases. I don't blame Take Two for going after the IP, even ten years later it's still one of the strongest game characters people remember.
posted by inthe80s at 7:14 AM on December 22, 2009
I must have played a different version of Duke Nukem 3D.
That was what I was thinking when I read it. The only thing I remembered about Duke's technology that was better than Doom's was that it had a third axis, you could fly a little and that the environment had some stuff to interact with. The graphics were ok, but even Doom seemed better at the time for graphics.
They should have just stuck to being the "funny" FPS, and they'd have done fine with regular releases. I don't blame Take Two for going after the IP, even ten years later it's still one of the strongest game characters people remember.
posted by inthe80s at 7:14 AM on December 22, 2009
. (Duke - the only one of it's ilk that was easy to get into and good for casual office/pickup gaming)
You're entitled to your opinion, but to imply that Duke3D was this and Doom wasn't is kinda ludicrous. Doom started the office LAN game thing.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:15 AM on December 22, 2009
You're entitled to your opinion, but to imply that Duke3D was this and Doom wasn't is kinda ludicrous. Doom started the office LAN game thing.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:15 AM on December 22, 2009
"Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League"
I applaud you, sir, but feel compelled to point out that it is Buckaroo Banzai vs. the World Crime League.
posted by adamdschneider at 7:15 AM on December 22, 2009 [7 favorites]
I applaud you, sir, but feel compelled to point out that it is Buckaroo Banzai vs. the World Crime League.
posted by adamdschneider at 7:15 AM on December 22, 2009 [7 favorites]
> I'm shocked! Shocked, I say!
I haven't exactly been following this story closely, but I was honestly shocked to read that there were actually full time staff still working on this thing. I guess I pictured the situation the same way I did the making of Chinese Democracy...a couple of times a week Axl Rose/a lone programmer would come into the studio/lab and do bit of desultory work for a couple of hours. Maybe once a month or so a hired hand would come in and help out as needed. Meanwhile, the dust and crazy would pile up.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:17 AM on December 22, 2009 [6 favorites]
I haven't exactly been following this story closely, but I was honestly shocked to read that there were actually full time staff still working on this thing. I guess I pictured the situation the same way I did the making of Chinese Democracy...a couple of times a week Axl Rose/a lone programmer would come into the studio/lab and do bit of desultory work for a couple of hours. Maybe once a month or so a hired hand would come in and help out as needed. Meanwhile, the dust and crazy would pile up.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:17 AM on December 22, 2009 [6 favorites]
that the environment had some stuff to interact with
That was a big deal at the time though. Duke3D was the first FPS to do that, or at least the one everyone remembers as the first. That was its killer feature. Other than that, it wasn't all that remarkable, it's just that the playing field was much less crowded then, so it's often remembered as being better than it was.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:18 AM on December 22, 2009
That was a big deal at the time though. Duke3D was the first FPS to do that, or at least the one everyone remembers as the first. That was its killer feature. Other than that, it wasn't all that remarkable, it's just that the playing field was much less crowded then, so it's often remembered as being better than it was.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:18 AM on December 22, 2009
It's no longer time to think about kicking ass and chewing bubble gum in the indeterminate future.
posted by porn in the woods at 7:18 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by porn in the woods at 7:18 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
Am I in time for the Chinese Democracy joke?
posted by Artw at 7:20 AM on December 22, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:20 AM on December 22, 2009 [6 favorites]
My kid used to play it, until I saw all the Nazi symbolism, and the totally gratuitous violence. This game is why some people think video games are trash.
posted by theora55 at 7:26 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by theora55 at 7:26 AM on December 22, 2009
Is Wired going to finally take it off their vaporware-of-the-year list, or is it permanently affixed at the top, like dried chewing gum?
posted by ardgedee at 7:27 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ardgedee at 7:27 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
Though realistically it died a long time ago, I still feel disappointed. Kind of the way I felt about the failed Mars missions; you'd hold out hope that the lander would one day start transmitting again. Right up until you find the wreckage. Oh well; time to fire up DOSbox.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 7:31 AM on December 22, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Hardcore Poser at 7:31 AM on December 22, 2009 [4 favorites]
Why does Wired do so many stories of "epic Fail after success has gone to their head"? In the same issue is a special on Failure, and some of their best stories have been about characters who fail despite success. Failure must be popular right now.
posted by stbalbach at 7:32 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by stbalbach at 7:32 AM on December 22, 2009
Gods bless you and keep you, theora55; you are the reason teenage rebellion will never get old.
This needs something more than a "favorite". If there was a button that would carve and bejewel a commemorative plaque in honor of this post, Lord help me I would push it.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:33 AM on December 22, 2009 [16 favorites]
This needs something more than a "favorite". If there was a button that would carve and bejewel a commemorative plaque in honor of this post, Lord help me I would push it.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:33 AM on December 22, 2009 [16 favorites]
"...a character that's basically what you suspect Jim McMahon's secret self-image is"
Wow, that's a bit of a time capsule, isn't it?
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 7:35 AM on December 22, 2009
Wow, that's a bit of a time capsule, isn't it?
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 7:35 AM on December 22, 2009
I don't know how I missed this, but it's a detailed timeline of the game from shacknews.com
posted by askmehow at 7:35 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by askmehow at 7:35 AM on December 22, 2009
At the end of the universe, failure is going to be a major theme in nearly all the good retrospectives.
posted by Wolfdog at 7:37 AM on December 22, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 7:37 AM on December 22, 2009 [5 favorites]
Dumbass. You can never beat Dizzy World Adventure. Or Open Transport Tycoon, for that mater. They're both the high water mark for video games. Anything better is actually a psychoactive drug.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:38 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:38 AM on December 22, 2009
The hint was in the initials. DNF.
posted by surrendering monkey at 7:39 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by surrendering monkey at 7:39 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
My kid used to play it, until I saw all the Nazi symbolism,
Where is the Nazi symbolism in Duke Nukem 3D? I totally can't remember. Are you sure you're not talking about Wolfenstein?
posted by infinitewindow at 7:42 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
Where is the Nazi symbolism in Duke Nukem 3D? I totally can't remember. Are you sure you're not talking about Wolfenstein?
posted by infinitewindow at 7:42 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
Pitfall Harry killed him, that bastard.
posted by stormpooper at 7:42 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by stormpooper at 7:42 AM on December 22, 2009
> Failure must be popular right now.
Homer: I wonder why stories of degradation and humiliation make you more popular?
Moe: I dunno. They just do.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:45 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
Homer: I wonder why stories of degradation and humiliation make you more popular?
Moe: I dunno. They just do.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:45 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
*F3* “lucky son of a bitch . . .”
posted by Think_Long at 7:46 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by Think_Long at 7:46 AM on December 22, 2009
Where is the Nazi symbolism in Duke Nukem 3D? I totally can't remember. Are you sure you're not talking about Wolfenstein?
Pretty sure he or she is, I don't think Duke3D had Nazis at all. It did have enemies that were two-legged pigs in police uniforms, though, and I'm guessing he/she would object to that too. It's pretty goofy to accuse a game where the final boss fight is against a robotic Hitler who taunts you in sub-Colonel-Klink German of being pro-Nazi, though. It poked fun at Nazis if anything, although it was banned in Germany and possibly France because those countries have laws prohibiting anything that has swastikas in/on it outside of a few special cases.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:48 AM on December 22, 2009
Pretty sure he or she is, I don't think Duke3D had Nazis at all. It did have enemies that were two-legged pigs in police uniforms, though, and I'm guessing he/she would object to that too. It's pretty goofy to accuse a game where the final boss fight is against a robotic Hitler who taunts you in sub-Colonel-Klink German of being pro-Nazi, though. It poked fun at Nazis if anything, although it was banned in Germany and possibly France because those countries have laws prohibiting anything that has swastikas in/on it outside of a few special cases.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:48 AM on December 22, 2009
The hint was in the initials. DNF.
Man, this saga has gone on so long that the DNF leaderboard joke is funny to me again. We got it out of our systems around 2002, but I guess it was due for a good resurgence.
posted by Spatch at 7:48 AM on December 22, 2009
Man, this saga has gone on so long that the DNF leaderboard joke is funny to me again. We got it out of our systems around 2002, but I guess it was due for a good resurgence.
posted by Spatch at 7:48 AM on December 22, 2009
I just read the article, but didn't see any new information that wasn't covered in this post. Flagged as a double. Sorry.
posted by zarq at 7:48 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by zarq at 7:48 AM on December 22, 2009
One of my happier memories from the late 90's was going to a friend's townhouse and playing networked Duke Nukem with five or six other people. My personal favorite was the subway level.
Now we're all either married with kids or living three time zones away and some of us aren't speaking to others. But all I need to do is think "YOU'RE AN INSPIRATION FOR BIRTH CONTROL!!!!!!!" and I am hiding behind the billboard on the subway platform, waiting for someone to frag. With a grin on my face.
posted by Lucinda at 7:51 AM on December 22, 2009
Now we're all either married with kids or living three time zones away and some of us aren't speaking to others. But all I need to do is think "YOU'RE AN INSPIRATION FOR BIRTH CONTROL!!!!!!!" and I am hiding behind the billboard on the subway platform, waiting for someone to frag. With a grin on my face.
posted by Lucinda at 7:51 AM on December 22, 2009
You're all lying sacks of shit. I swear to you all, this time next year I will be rockin' some DNF on my slick Phantom gaming console, and it will all be powered by my perpetual motion machine.
posted by Dark Messiah at 7:52 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Dark Messiah at 7:52 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
This game is why some people think video games are trash.
Of course video games are trash. If they weren't trash, we wouldn't play them.
Also, rock and roll is the devil's music. Let's keep it that way.
posted by deanc at 7:54 AM on December 22, 2009 [8 favorites]
Of course video games are trash. If they weren't trash, we wouldn't play them.
Also, rock and roll is the devil's music. Let's keep it that way.
posted by deanc at 7:54 AM on December 22, 2009 [8 favorites]
But the Duke Nukem Forever team worked for 12 years straight.
This needs to be modified to:
But the Duke Nukem Forever team worked for 12 years sporadically, with lengthy breaks for game-engine changes, press junkets, and WoW.
posted by Gordion Knott at 7:54 AM on December 22, 2009
This needs to be modified to:
But the Duke Nukem Forever team worked for 12 years sporadically, with lengthy breaks for game-engine changes, press junkets, and WoW.
posted by Gordion Knott at 7:54 AM on December 22, 2009
This game is why some people think video games are trash.
This may come as a shock to you but most videogames aren't designed for children. I'm a bit disappointed you didn't mention the nudity. Or the swearing.
posted by graventy at 8:00 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
This may come as a shock to you but most videogames aren't designed for children. I'm a bit disappointed you didn't mention the nudity. Or the swearing.
posted by graventy at 8:00 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
I fail to see how this game cannot be completed and then released. They made (I'm pretty damn sure) System Shock 2, Bio Shock, and soon to be released Bio Shock 2 all in the time this game was in production. None of those games (same type of game mind you) did not feel rushed at all. Honestly they have made several Wolfenstein games as well. Whoever their Project Manager is should be looked at very disappointingly and banned from every trying to make another video game again. In fact I will go as far to say that any programmer who worked on this project should be only allowed to work as an entry level programmer until they can prove themselves reliable. In fact we have had 3 different presidents in the office during the time it took during this game's development.
Honestly someone better buy the damn rights to this game and umm release it in a timely manner. I'll give them until Christmas of 2011. 2 years seems very nice of me.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:01 AM on December 22, 2009
Honestly someone better buy the damn rights to this game and umm release it in a timely manner. I'll give them until Christmas of 2011. 2 years seems very nice of me.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:01 AM on December 22, 2009
I don't recall any Nazi symbolism anywhere in Duke Nukem either.
I do, however, remember all kinds of letters to the editor of Computer Gaming World filled with furious outrage at the fact that you could shoot and kill the strippers in the game. Of course, if you shot them they would turn into falling money, and a horde of monsters would appear to attack you.
Of course, these days even CGW has passed into the mists of history.
But mostly when I think of Duke Nukem, I remember playing deathmatch with my teenage brother. The shrink gun was one of the greatest weapons ever - you'd shrink your opponent down to about three inches high and then run around trying to find him so you could stomp on him. My roommate would get annoyed at being awakened by peals of laughter coming from my room in the wee hours of the morning.
posted by smoothvirus at 8:03 AM on December 22, 2009 [4 favorites]
I do, however, remember all kinds of letters to the editor of Computer Gaming World filled with furious outrage at the fact that you could shoot and kill the strippers in the game. Of course, if you shot them they would turn into falling money, and a horde of monsters would appear to attack you.
Of course, these days even CGW has passed into the mists of history.
But mostly when I think of Duke Nukem, I remember playing deathmatch with my teenage brother. The shrink gun was one of the greatest weapons ever - you'd shrink your opponent down to about three inches high and then run around trying to find him so you could stomp on him. My roommate would get annoyed at being awakened by peals of laughter coming from my room in the wee hours of the morning.
posted by smoothvirus at 8:03 AM on December 22, 2009 [4 favorites]
My kid used to play it, until I saw all the Nazi symbolism, and the totally gratuitous violence. This game is why some people think video games are trash.
posted by theora55 at 7:26 AM on December 22 [+] [!]
BTW me/ pulls out my stick and looks at the dead horse. :)
I love these types of games because they are a fantasy... (be it a dark, anti-hero one) but they are something that cannot realistically happen. They have uber-violence, sex, gore, swearing, explosions, and over the top big boss battles. They are not meant for children in any way, shape, or form. For adults, however that want to blow off a little steam, it is perfect.
As for your parenting skills, thank you for being active in your kids' lives enough to care about what they play and watch. They shouldn't be playing games like this and do not have the mental abilities to process it.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:08 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 7:26 AM on December 22 [+] [!]
BTW me/ pulls out my stick and looks at the dead horse. :)
I love these types of games because they are a fantasy... (be it a dark, anti-hero one) but they are something that cannot realistically happen. They have uber-violence, sex, gore, swearing, explosions, and over the top big boss battles. They are not meant for children in any way, shape, or form. For adults, however that want to blow off a little steam, it is perfect.
As for your parenting skills, thank you for being active in your kids' lives enough to care about what they play and watch. They shouldn't be playing games like this and do not have the mental abilities to process it.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:08 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
By 1994, Broussard began concocting his own breakout game — one that would upend the conventions of the fledgling genre. Where other titles were gloomy and self-important, his would be brassy, colorful, and funny. Instead of playing as a faceless marine, gamers would play as Duke Nukem, “a combo of John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, and Arnold,” as Broussard described him...
...After a year and a half of work, Duke Nukem 3D was released online in January 1996.
god, no two phrases could possibly encapsulate where broussard's mind went wrong on DNF better than this. get a team to build the game quick, make it funny, make fun of the industry. no offense, dude, but that's what duke was. it was a big joke about the games, and the industry is STILL trapped in the "faceless, characterless space marine" trope. there was still plenty there to parody. you didn't need to revolutionize the graphics. all DN3D did was fill in gaps, looking up and down and jumping/flying. You didn't need to blow our minds. You needed to make the anti-Doom again. or the anti-gears of war. or the anti-whatthefuckever.
you know what? you needed to make "No One Lives Forever."
posted by shmegegge at 8:14 AM on December 22, 2009 [7 favorites]
...After a year and a half of work, Duke Nukem 3D was released online in January 1996.
god, no two phrases could possibly encapsulate where broussard's mind went wrong on DNF better than this. get a team to build the game quick, make it funny, make fun of the industry. no offense, dude, but that's what duke was. it was a big joke about the games, and the industry is STILL trapped in the "faceless, characterless space marine" trope. there was still plenty there to parody. you didn't need to revolutionize the graphics. all DN3D did was fill in gaps, looking up and down and jumping/flying. You didn't need to blow our minds. You needed to make the anti-Doom again. or the anti-gears of war. or the anti-whatthefuckever.
you know what? you needed to make "No One Lives Forever."
posted by shmegegge at 8:14 AM on December 22, 2009 [7 favorites]
At the time, Duke wasn't great because of the game engine so much, but because of the crazy weapons and super level design. It was almost delirious fun playing multiplayer at a LAN party -- it didn't take itself very seriously and had lots of bizarre tactics that actually worked. I remember one level where you spawned on top of a waterfall and did this huge jump down into a half-sunken city... that was my gaming group's favorite.
But I fired it up earlier this year in DOSBox, and dear God, the thing is absolutely terrible as a single player game. The control is terrible, the enemy sprites are bad, and the humor doesn't even reach sophomoric level. And the level design I remembered as being so fantastic is crude and extremely ugly.
Some games, when you look back at them, really hold up. Half-Life is the gold standard of its era, and is still better than many games coming out now. No One Lives Forever is another example; with the amazing voices and intricate levels that actually looked fairly real, it's just as playable in 2009 as it was in 2000.
Duke Nukem 3D isn't even in the same league. It was groundbreaking, but it wasn't actually that good.
posted by Malor at 8:17 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
But I fired it up earlier this year in DOSBox, and dear God, the thing is absolutely terrible as a single player game. The control is terrible, the enemy sprites are bad, and the humor doesn't even reach sophomoric level. And the level design I remembered as being so fantastic is crude and extremely ugly.
Some games, when you look back at them, really hold up. Half-Life is the gold standard of its era, and is still better than many games coming out now. No One Lives Forever is another example; with the amazing voices and intricate levels that actually looked fairly real, it's just as playable in 2009 as it was in 2000.
Duke Nukem 3D isn't even in the same league. It was groundbreaking, but it wasn't actually that good.
posted by Malor at 8:17 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
You didn't need to revolutionize the graphics. all DN3D did was fill in gaps, looking up and down and jumping/flying. You didn't need to blow our minds. You needed to make the anti-Doom again. or the anti-gears of war. or the anti-whatthefuckever.
This is a very good point, and it's a demonstration of the phenomenon where a creator sometimes does not realize what is important about his own work. Few people who enjoyed Duke Nukem 3D liked it because they were "blown away" by its graphical and interactive advancements over Doom. It was because they liked the characters, the humor, and the playability.
This is also why I felt the Unreal engine was oversold as "the next big thing." Yes, it was nicer than Quake, but it wasn't a revolutionary game because it didn't offer anything that much more stunning in terms of playability.
Interesting that Broussard becomes obsessed with the marginal advances in 3D playability as the key to Duke Nukem's success to the exclusion of all else. I doubt anyone would have refrained from buying Duke Nukem Forever because some other game had a slightly better engine. Most of the millions of potential players probably wouldn't have noticed.
posted by deanc at 8:20 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is a very good point, and it's a demonstration of the phenomenon where a creator sometimes does not realize what is important about his own work. Few people who enjoyed Duke Nukem 3D liked it because they were "blown away" by its graphical and interactive advancements over Doom. It was because they liked the characters, the humor, and the playability.
This is also why I felt the Unreal engine was oversold as "the next big thing." Yes, it was nicer than Quake, but it wasn't a revolutionary game because it didn't offer anything that much more stunning in terms of playability.
Interesting that Broussard becomes obsessed with the marginal advances in 3D playability as the key to Duke Nukem's success to the exclusion of all else. I doubt anyone would have refrained from buying Duke Nukem Forever because some other game had a slightly better engine. Most of the millions of potential players probably wouldn't have noticed.
posted by deanc at 8:20 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
More games need shrinkrays.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:20 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:20 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
Wow, it would be absolute hell to work under George Broussard. One of the smarter decisions at Google was to bring on someone like Eric Schmidt. Some people just aren't managers and will spend all day obsessing about technology. This is as old as the computer itself, Feynman describes witnessing it for the first time with the IBM punchcard machines at Los Alamos:
He really was his own worst enemy. I can't imagine a development firm that wouldn't have paid him, and good money, to simply show up and do whatever he wants. Sure he wouldn't have a 19 person entourage to throw his wild ideas down on, but he'd be free to do whatever the hell he wants and they get to use his name for recruiting. Too bad he was too myopic to see this.
posted by geoff. at 8:26 AM on December 22, 2009 [4 favorites]
Absolutely useless. We had tables of arc-tangents. But if you've ever worked with computers, you understand the disease- the delight in being able to see how much you can do. But he got the disease for the first time, the poor fellow who invented the thing.I have a few projects at work that I could definitely nerd out on, and at times I've spent hours playing around with R and just playing around with things. To an extent this is useful, and I think this is where innovation happens. Outside of a corporate research lab, however, you really got to decompose your tasks into actual achievable things. So while I might, at the beginning of a project say something general, like "LDAP to Active Directory login," and then when find out about OpenID, then Linq-to-LDAP, in the end if I'm not devoting at least 60% of my time with the "LDAP to Active Directory login," I'm wasting time. Nothing would get done.
He really was his own worst enemy. I can't imagine a development firm that wouldn't have paid him, and good money, to simply show up and do whatever he wants. Sure he wouldn't have a 19 person entourage to throw his wild ideas down on, but he'd be free to do whatever the hell he wants and they get to use his name for recruiting. Too bad he was too myopic to see this.
posted by geoff. at 8:26 AM on December 22, 2009 [4 favorites]
More games need shrinkrays.
God, yes. A shrink ray would have been perfect in Fallout 3.
posted by smoothvirus at 8:26 AM on December 22, 2009
God, yes. A shrink ray would have been perfect in Fallout 3.
posted by smoothvirus at 8:26 AM on December 22, 2009
There was a discussion about this on the In Game Chat podcast a while back, and I agree with them (or at least one of them): It probably wouldn't do so well now anyway... It's a cliche, but times have changed, and I think the leary, misogynistic, violent character wouldn't find fans in the same way. Even in his misogyny there's something remarkably dated about him. I think to make the kind of money they were going to need, you have to do something really special if you're just releasing an FPS. And a PC FPS at that... Most of the money for FPSs are in Halo and CoD nowadays.
Saying all this, I never played DN3D past a demo, as I found it so offensive, and waiting but 5 or 6 months got you Quake - which I found not only to be far more atmospheric, had a really good soundtrack, but didn't have sprites for bad guys!
I never expected DNF to make it out.
posted by opsin at 8:50 AM on December 22, 2009
Saying all this, I never played DN3D past a demo, as I found it so offensive, and waiting but 5 or 6 months got you Quake - which I found not only to be far more atmospheric, had a really good soundtrack, but didn't have sprites for bad guys!
I never expected DNF to make it out.
posted by opsin at 8:50 AM on December 22, 2009
And it was down for a 360 release too... But even so, I reckon it would have sold even less well on that system.
posted by opsin at 8:52 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by opsin at 8:52 AM on December 22, 2009
It was groundbreaking, but it wasn't actually that good.
I disagree. I never played Duke Nukem beyond the shareware levels during its glory days so last year or so I played it through for the first time and found it to be a lot of fun. I used a modified version that allowed rendering at higher resolutions and wsad/mouse control. I think the control scheme is key here--first person shooters really hit their stride with the rise of mouse-look controls. Now that players are accustomed to superior controls, having to go back to the old ways makes it all the more clear how clunky and frustrating they were (and so playing the modified version avoids this major problem). One of the reasons why Half-life is still playable is that the controls are identical to what you'd see in a modern shooter.
posted by katerschluck at 8:57 AM on December 22, 2009
I disagree. I never played Duke Nukem beyond the shareware levels during its glory days so last year or so I played it through for the first time and found it to be a lot of fun. I used a modified version that allowed rendering at higher resolutions and wsad/mouse control. I think the control scheme is key here--first person shooters really hit their stride with the rise of mouse-look controls. Now that players are accustomed to superior controls, having to go back to the old ways makes it all the more clear how clunky and frustrating they were (and so playing the modified version avoids this major problem). One of the reasons why Half-life is still playable is that the controls are identical to what you'd see in a modern shooter.
posted by katerschluck at 8:57 AM on December 22, 2009
The guy who wrote DNF is coming out with a fairly high profile movie next month. Wonder why Wired didn't mention (or talk to?) him.
posted by christopherious at 9:01 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by christopherious at 9:01 AM on December 22, 2009
It's a cliche, but times have changed, and I think the leary, misogynistic, violent character wouldn't find fans in the same way.
Unfortunately not true. Go check out Gears of War, Modern Warfare 2, God of War, or any of a huge number of other "AAA" console titles. Ultraviolence is alive and well, if misogyny is missing it's only for lack of a single female character, and the humor level has only progressed from grade school to middle school.
Duke Nukem Forever may have been a complete disaster. But Duke's legacy lives on.
posted by ecurtz at 9:01 AM on December 22, 2009
Unfortunately not true. Go check out Gears of War, Modern Warfare 2, God of War, or any of a huge number of other "AAA" console titles. Ultraviolence is alive and well, if misogyny is missing it's only for lack of a single female character, and the humor level has only progressed from grade school to middle school.
Duke Nukem Forever may have been a complete disaster. But Duke's legacy lives on.
posted by ecurtz at 9:01 AM on December 22, 2009
Didn't they officially kill it off several months ago?
posted by jjb at 9:03 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by jjb at 9:03 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
I didn't see in the articles, are they going to release the source so the community can work on hammering out a 1.0 in time for the ice caps melting?
posted by cgk at 9:21 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by cgk at 9:21 AM on December 22, 2009
It had to surpass every other game that had ever existed
Someone needs to plug a mouse and keyboard into Avatar. All you need is Quaritch as the lead and tinker with the story a bit. Presto.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:30 AM on December 22, 2009
Someone needs to plug a mouse and keyboard into Avatar. All you need is Quaritch as the lead and tinker with the story a bit. Presto.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:30 AM on December 22, 2009
Blood was my preferred Build Engine game. It, unfortunately, DID get a sequel around the time that Half-Life was released, and it was absolutely terrible.
I might have to fire up DOSBox and play through Blood again... what a great game.
posted by codacorolla at 9:32 AM on December 22, 2009
I might have to fire up DOSBox and play through Blood again... what a great game.
posted by codacorolla at 9:32 AM on December 22, 2009
A part of me is kind of wondering if the IP is really as valuable as people think it is. Yes, video games aren't for kids, but a successful game requires a substantial buy-in of 13-20-year-olds, and how many of them have played the original? For people who like crazy violence and swearing, there are plenty more games with that than there were in the 90s, and for people who like humor/satire, there's a whole niche that didn't exist back then.
Sure it'll make some money out of nostalgia, but I question whether it would ever be a top-shelf franchise, regardless of who's developing it.
posted by roll truck roll at 9:35 AM on December 22, 2009
Sure it'll make some money out of nostalgia, but I question whether it would ever be a top-shelf franchise, regardless of who's developing it.
posted by roll truck roll at 9:35 AM on December 22, 2009
Well, crap. DNF was my last best hope for a "modern" single-player FPS that I might actually enjoy playing, as opposed to feeling like I merely survived playing.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:38 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by Thorzdad at 9:38 AM on December 22, 2009
This brings back some bad memories. I worked in video games during the late 90's early aughts. I was on a project with no end in sight. There was absolutely no timeline. The producers were "researching the competition" by playing every game in sight. Programmers working independent or outright against one another. Steady stream of employees coming and going. Restarts on game engines. Reworking and starting over constantly.
I knew at the start what I was doing would never reach light of day. I eventually hoped we could get it together for a demo, something to put in my portfolio. It was supposed to be a real time strategy that was all history encompassing. It was so oversimplified that it was embarrassing. Eventually, I just moved on to another company. I got out of years of work with no portfolio or demo reel and had to compete with students with no practical work, but had a reel.
posted by agent of bad karma at 9:48 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
I knew at the start what I was doing would never reach light of day. I eventually hoped we could get it together for a demo, something to put in my portfolio. It was supposed to be a real time strategy that was all history encompassing. It was so oversimplified that it was embarrassing. Eventually, I just moved on to another company. I got out of years of work with no portfolio or demo reel and had to compete with students with no practical work, but had a reel.
posted by agent of bad karma at 9:48 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
Zero Punctuation punctured the hype surrounding the game fairly well when its closure was announced.
posted by shmegegge at 9:49 AM on December 22, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by shmegegge at 9:49 AM on December 22, 2009 [4 favorites]
This game (and the Duke IP, by extension) is such a joke at this point even if it ever materialized out of the depths of vaporware. It's probably wiser just to let it die and chuckle about it every now and then when this debacle is brought up.
posted by cmgonzalez at 9:52 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by cmgonzalez at 9:52 AM on December 22, 2009
Duke Nuke'm forever is a mythological beast - the sasquatch of gamings legendary creatures. It cannot be killed and people will swear they've seen it for decades to come.
posted by Jeremy at 9:55 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Jeremy at 9:55 AM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
Plus, now if I want strippers, I can play GTA. am old enough to get into a strip club.
[FTFY]
Twelve years will do that to a boy.
posted by -harlequin- at 10:47 AM on December 22, 2009 [4 favorites]
[FTFY]
Twelve years will do that to a boy.
posted by -harlequin- at 10:47 AM on December 22, 2009 [4 favorites]
Duke Nuke'm forever is a mythological beast - the sasquatch of gamings legendary creatures. It cannot be killed and people will swear they've seen it for decades to come.
I did see DNF. It was at the 1998 E3, the year it was held in Atlanta. 3DR has a non-playable demo of DNF on show. It looked pretty cool. And Duke had lens-flares in his vision. Back then, lens-flares were also cool.
I also have memories from that E3 of Lord Raiden, behind a booth set, hunched over a cup of coffee. It was oddly... human.
posted by -harlequin- at 10:52 AM on December 22, 2009
I did see DNF. It was at the 1998 E3, the year it was held in Atlanta. 3DR has a non-playable demo of DNF on show. It looked pretty cool. And Duke had lens-flares in his vision. Back then, lens-flares were also cool.
I also have memories from that E3 of Lord Raiden, behind a booth set, hunched over a cup of coffee. It was oddly... human.
posted by -harlequin- at 10:52 AM on December 22, 2009
I'm really hoping for a leak of all the betas that this game went through. There has to be a disgruntled staffer with archive copies somewhere...
posted by codacorolla at 10:59 AM on December 22, 2009
posted by codacorolla at 10:59 AM on December 22, 2009
What made Duke Nukem 3d so fun for me was the remote taunting you could do to the other players after a good frag.
Get everything setup over the phone, hang up, and commence the "Come get some".
That, and I recall co-op mode being a lot of fun. Same mission, just two player.
And light switches. Man, did Doom need lightswitches.
posted by madajb at 11:14 AM on December 22, 2009
Get everything setup over the phone, hang up, and commence the "Come get some".
That, and I recall co-op mode being a lot of fun. Same mission, just two player.
And light switches. Man, did Doom need lightswitches.
posted by madajb at 11:14 AM on December 22, 2009
Fallout 3 Alien Shrink Ray
Ooo! Thanks! Still playing through the game, I haven't found that yet. Watch out Enclave.. muahhahahaha.
posted by smoothvirus at 11:25 AM on December 22, 2009
Ooo! Thanks! Still playing through the game, I haven't found that yet. Watch out Enclave.. muahhahahaha.
posted by smoothvirus at 11:25 AM on December 22, 2009
Since we are talking about vintage gaming, I'd like to see more games like MDK, MDK2 and later, Psychonauts and Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy. I love me some realism and first person shootering, but every once in a while it was really fun to sit back with a game that was odd, beautiful, funny, and as enjoyable to watch for others as for the person playing.
posted by quin at 11:42 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by quin at 11:42 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm really hoping for a leak of all the betas that this game went through. There has to be a disgruntled staffer with archive copies somewhere...
I was thinking the same thing. What does 12 years of tech demos look like?
posted by eyeballkid at 11:52 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
I was thinking the same thing. What does 12 years of tech demos look like?
posted by eyeballkid at 11:52 AM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
No love(or hate) for Shadow Warrior?
... You no mess with Lo Wang!
posted by owtytrof at 11:59 AM on December 22, 2009
... You no mess with Lo Wang!
posted by owtytrof at 11:59 AM on December 22, 2009
What does 12 years of tech demos look like?
Four times as shit as Daikatana?
posted by longbaugh at 12:04 PM on December 22, 2009 [3 favorites]
Four times as shit as Daikatana?
posted by longbaugh at 12:04 PM on December 22, 2009 [3 favorites]
The completed parts/demos/whatever else is available should be open-sourced.
posted by coolguymichael at 12:55 PM on December 22, 2009
posted by coolguymichael at 12:55 PM on December 22, 2009
Since we are talking about vintage gaming, I'd like to see more games like MDK, MDK2 and later, Psychonauts and Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy. I love me some realism and first person shootering, but every once in a while it was really fun to sit back with a game that was odd, beautiful, funny, and as enjoyable to watch for others as for the person playing.
Zeno Clash
Machinarium
Actually, these requirements are meant pretty often in the PC indie games scene.
posted by graventy at 1:04 PM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
Zeno Clash
Machinarium
Actually, these requirements are meant pretty often in the PC indie games scene.
posted by graventy at 1:04 PM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
This brings back some bad memories. I worked in video games during the late 90's early aughts. I was on a project with no end in sight.
I know a guy who got canned from a major studio for this very reason. I think the game being worked on is now in its sixth year of dev. And I suspect the endless "research playing" and other bullshit masquerading as "work" was a big part of it.
Perfect, enemy, good, etc.
posted by maxwelton at 1:07 PM on December 22, 2009
I know a guy who got canned from a major studio for this very reason. I think the game being worked on is now in its sixth year of dev. And I suspect the endless "research playing" and other bullshit masquerading as "work" was a big part of it.
Perfect, enemy, good, etc.
posted by maxwelton at 1:07 PM on December 22, 2009
Slash000 is a patient man. A $10 pre-order placed 8/13/2001, never to be filled.
posted by now i'm piste at 1:37 PM on December 22, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by now i'm piste at 1:37 PM on December 22, 2009 [6 favorites]
Slash000 is a patient man. A $10 pre-order placed 8/13/2001, never to be filled.
Wow. They were taking pre-orders? On a game that was never even close to being shipped?
posted by krinklyfig at 2:30 PM on December 22, 2009
Wow. They were taking pre-orders? On a game that was never even close to being shipped?
posted by krinklyfig at 2:30 PM on December 22, 2009
I do believe GameStop is willing to take your money for ANYTHING.
posted by graventy at 2:44 PM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by graventy at 2:44 PM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, Slash000 lived in a pre 9/11 world-- things were different then.
posted by InfidelZombie at 2:50 PM on December 22, 2009
posted by InfidelZombie at 2:50 PM on December 22, 2009
I somehow missed the PC version, but my friends and I would play deathmatch on Duke Nukem 64 while listening to CDs on my boom box. For me, homing missiles, holodukes, and pixellated gibs are forever associated with They Might Be Giants' Lincoln.
posted by maus at 3:35 PM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by maus at 3:35 PM on December 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
codacorolla: "I might have to fire up DOSBox and play through Blood again... what a great game."
A hearty second to that. I can still feel that thrill of... what? Humourous weirdness that Blood delivered. No other game ever did that with such style. Although Redneck Rampage had its moments.
posted by sneebler at 3:44 PM on December 22, 2009
A hearty second to that. I can still feel that thrill of... what? Humourous weirdness that Blood delivered. No other game ever did that with such style. Although Redneck Rampage had its moments.
posted by sneebler at 3:44 PM on December 22, 2009
I miss Marathon. Halo lacks charm by comparison.
posted by Artw at 4:33 PM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:33 PM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
I don't understand why this game won't be made. 3d Realms is bankrupt, Take Two seems to be the largest creditor, won't they end up with the IP and then be able to get this out in a year or two. It might take another 5-6 months to litigate, but once it is done I assume the game will be forthcoming.
posted by humanfont at 6:42 PM on December 22, 2009
posted by humanfont at 6:42 PM on December 22, 2009
Tell you what, you wait on Duke Nukem, I'll wait on my Marvelman comic, we'll see who gets what they want first.
posted by Artw at 6:43 PM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:43 PM on December 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
Lookit the group shot. They needed some women on staff. THAT'S why it didn't finish.
posted by Lukenlogs at 7:50 PM on December 22, 2009
posted by Lukenlogs at 7:50 PM on December 22, 2009
Well, crap. DNF was my last best hope for a "modern" single-player FPS that I might actually enjoy playing, as opposed to feeling like I merely survived playing.
May I suggest anything by Valve.
posted by P.o.B. at 10:09 PM on December 22, 2009
May I suggest anything by Valve.
posted by P.o.B. at 10:09 PM on December 22, 2009
DNF isn't really dead, they just want you to think that. Here's the secret...if you flash the firmware on your optical drive and spin the Guns N' Roses "Chinese Democracy" disc backwards it will install a recent build of DNF on your computer. Pass it on.
posted by MikeMc at 8:17 AM on December 23, 2009
posted by MikeMc at 8:17 AM on December 23, 2009
No love(or hate) for Shadow Warrior?
I was a freshman in college when that game came out, and I was exactly the kind of sheltered, privileged and immature stereotypical gamer it was targeted toward. And even I thought "jesus, this is one racist piece of shit." Thank god for shareware, so I never had to actually drop money on that turd to find out how horrible it was.
posted by shmegegge at 8:18 AM on December 23, 2009
I was a freshman in college when that game came out, and I was exactly the kind of sheltered, privileged and immature stereotypical gamer it was targeted toward. And even I thought "jesus, this is one racist piece of shit." Thank god for shareware, so I never had to actually drop money on that turd to find out how horrible it was.
posted by shmegegge at 8:18 AM on December 23, 2009
I;m pretty suyre that Lo Wang is stolen from Kentuky Fried Movie or similar.
posted by Artw at 8:40 AM on December 23, 2009
posted by Artw at 8:40 AM on December 23, 2009
Lookit the group shot. They needed some women on staff. THAT'S why it didn't finish.
Women wouldn't have understood how important it was to get the stripper-boobs PERFECT. Stupid women.
I was also "BLINDING SEA OF WHITENESS but wait, didn't Trammell Isaac work here?" and then I saw him waaaaaaayyyy in the back. Kind of like Faizon Love in the poster for Couples Retreat.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:39 PM on December 23, 2009
Women wouldn't have understood how important it was to get the stripper-boobs PERFECT. Stupid women.
I was also "BLINDING SEA OF WHITENESS but wait, didn't Trammell Isaac work here?" and then I saw him waaaaaaayyyy in the back. Kind of like Faizon Love in the poster for Couples Retreat.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:39 PM on December 23, 2009
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posted by Copronymus at 6:57 AM on December 22, 2009