Keep Canada beautiful. Swallow your beer cans.
March 23, 2010 7:29 PM Subscribe
Ann Coulter to tour Canada! University to Ann Coulter: Please watch your mouth. I'm the victim of a hate crime, Ann Coulter tells Canadian audience. Security concerns cancel Ann Coulter's speech in Ottawa.
“There was a risk there could be physical violence,” said Canadian conservative activist Ezra Levant, who was scheduled to introduce Ms. Coulter.
Toronto Lite: Coulter’s hallmark inability to get facts straight endeared her even further to the Canadian audience when she mocked gay men, noting, according to the Globe’s Jane Taber, that they cannot do two things: “get married to each other” and “throw a baseball without looking like a girl.”
“There was a risk there could be physical violence,” said Canadian conservative activist Ezra Levant, who was scheduled to introduce Ms. Coulter.
Toronto Lite: Coulter’s hallmark inability to get facts straight endeared her even further to the Canadian audience when she mocked gay men, noting, according to the Globe’s Jane Taber, that they cannot do two things: “get married to each other” and “throw a baseball without looking like a girl.”
Civil libertarians decried the University of Ottawa’s treatment of Ms. Coulter, saying it’s out of line for an educational institution to be telling people to watch their words.
“It could be interpreted as an attempt to curtail speech,” Nathalie Des Rosiers, general counsel for the Canadian Civil Liberties Association said
posted by KokuRyu at 7:34 PM on March 23, 2010
“It could be interpreted as an attempt to curtail speech,” Nathalie Des Rosiers, general counsel for the Canadian Civil Liberties Association said
posted by KokuRyu at 7:34 PM on March 23, 2010
I considered posting this but I couldn't see how to do it without basically talking about how ridiculous she is. This will amuse her fans, alienate most everyone else, and any other effect will surprise me greatly.
posted by stinkycheese at 7:34 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by stinkycheese at 7:34 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Little does Ann know gay men in Canada can do both. And we're happy they can.
posted by Doug Stewart at 7:36 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Doug Stewart at 7:36 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Ann Coulters can't open their mouths without spouting bullshit so disingenuous it bores rather than shocks.
posted by sallybrown at 7:36 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 7:36 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
“It could be interpreted as an attempt to curtail speech”
It could also be interpreted as good advice for a person notorious for spouting outright falsehoods.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:37 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
It could also be interpreted as good advice for a person notorious for spouting outright falsehoods.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:37 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Far-Right Demagogue Famous for Saying Incendiary Things Stirs Controversy: Film at 11
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 7:39 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 7:39 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Yes, I thought about posting this too. I was just checking google news to see how the event went, only to find it was canceled.
I'm amused that Ann spun the Provost's warning as a threat to criminally prosecute her. While the warning may be considered over the line by some, I thought it remarkably Canadian in tone and pointed out some key differences in attitudes between our countries that she needs to understand.
posted by aclevername at 7:39 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm amused that Ann spun the Provost's warning as a threat to criminally prosecute her. While the warning may be considered over the line by some, I thought it remarkably Canadian in tone and pointed out some key differences in attitudes between our countries that she needs to understand.
posted by aclevername at 7:39 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Google "I want you to wreck this."
posted by ColdChef at 7:40 PM on March 23, 2010 [9 favorites]
posted by ColdChef at 7:40 PM on March 23, 2010 [9 favorites]
I suppose if the a lawyer from Civil Liberties were to be represented as an NPC in D&D, s/he would be chaotic good, or perhaps chaotic neutral.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:40 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by KokuRyu at 7:40 PM on March 23, 2010
this fucking idiot is still getting speaking gigs?
and... even more unbelievable.... the Canadians let her over the border...
damn, I thought they were smarter than we were...
posted by HuronBob at 7:42 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
and... even more unbelievable.... the Canadians let her over the border...
damn, I thought they were smarter than we were...
posted by HuronBob at 7:42 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
It could also be interpreted as good advice for a person notorious for spouting outright falsehoods.
Nope, the warning was a very, very bad idea.
Most likely, she wasn't going to say anything would lead to anyone actually trying to bring charges. And if they had, that would be a rather interesting collision between her vicious vanity and a controversial law. There was absolutely no need for Houle to attempt to warn her or babysit her. It just gave her a chance to bleat like a victim in advance and then revel when she actually got what she wanted today: more publicity.
I think Coulter has really missed the spotlight. Houle just gave it back to her. Idiote.
posted by maudlin at 7:43 PM on March 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
Nope, the warning was a very, very bad idea.
Most likely, she wasn't going to say anything would lead to anyone actually trying to bring charges. And if they had, that would be a rather interesting collision between her vicious vanity and a controversial law. There was absolutely no need for Houle to attempt to warn her or babysit her. It just gave her a chance to bleat like a victim in advance and then revel when she actually got what she wanted today: more publicity.
I think Coulter has really missed the spotlight. Houle just gave it back to her. Idiote.
posted by maudlin at 7:43 PM on March 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
Y'know, I generally prefer the rough and tumble of the US's First Amendment to Canada's more nuanced approach, and I used to argue against hate speech legislation, but to compare being told to watch what you say in a polite manner to actual hate speech is just so goddamned narcissistic and facile.
Will no one at her lectures stand up and simply say, "You're wrong and stupid" on one of the many occasions when she is both?
posted by klangklangston at 7:43 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Will no one at her lectures stand up and simply say, "You're wrong and stupid" on one of the many occasions when she is both?
posted by klangklangston at 7:43 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
ColdChef: "Google "I want you to wreck this.""
The only hit I got - or did something just go over my head?
posted by idiopath at 7:44 PM on March 23, 2010 [7 favorites]
The only hit I got - or did something just go over my head?
posted by idiopath at 7:44 PM on March 23, 2010 [7 favorites]
"Now that the provost has instructed me on the criminal speech laws he apparently believes I have a proclivity (to break), despite knowing nothing about my speech, I see that he is guilty of promoting hatred against an identifiable group: conservatives,"
Ah, there's that fine legal mind at work. Kudos. Those of my countrymen who weren't familiar with her before certainly have a clear enough picture of her now.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:45 PM on March 23, 2010
Ah, there's that fine legal mind at work. Kudos. Those of my countrymen who weren't familiar with her before certainly have a clear enough picture of her now.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:45 PM on March 23, 2010
She's horrible and I am pretty much revolted by the everything she stands for, like, a lot, but the article I read said that there were something like 2,000 protesters who were arming themselves with sticks and rocks.. Since it's not 1645, I'm not sure how likely that is - doubly so, because I think I saw it on Drudge Report ... Yes, there it is, "2000 protesters surrounding building with rocks and sticks " - anyway, I will say if that is the case, that's kind of out of line. She's insane, but that doesn't make it OK to, like, lay siege with .. sticks.
posted by kbanas at 7:46 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by kbanas at 7:46 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Will no one at her lectures stand up and simply say, "You're wrong and stupid" on one of the many occasions when she is both?
People do. Also, in 2007, Elizabeth Edwards called into MSNBC to ask Coulter not to engage in personal attacks against her husband John.
posted by zarq at 7:50 PM on March 23, 2010
People do. Also, in 2007, Elizabeth Edwards called into MSNBC to ask Coulter not to engage in personal attacks against her husband John.
posted by zarq at 7:50 PM on March 23, 2010
You might think she has a tent peg driven into her skull, but she is way to dense for that.
posted by nola at 7:50 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by nola at 7:50 PM on March 23, 2010
As an Ottawan, I was disappointed when news of the cancellation broke. Not because I'm a Coulter fan, but rather because I've always believed that fear of words is among the dumbest fears a thinking person can espouse. But even more than that because I've also always believed in giving the really rabid wingnuts enough rope to hang themselves. So I'm just sorry there'll be no "OMIGOD DID YOU HEAR WHAT THAT WOMAN SAID AT OTTAWA U??" bon mots to forever esconce the venerable institution's place in the Pantheon of Coulterisms. Like last night at the University of Western Ontario, when she told a young Muslim woman who asked what alternative means of travel Coulter would suggest if her (Coulter's) wished-for ban against Muslims flying anywhere were to come to pass, and Coulter blithely suggested, "Take a camel".
What a patriot that woman is! "Rush Limbaugh in a miniskirt" is just not good enough as an epitaph for her. Rather, I hope she'll be forever remembered as a passionately misguided right-wing-America-firster who put the opening syllable in the word "country".
posted by Mike D at 7:51 PM on March 23, 2010 [10 favorites]
What a patriot that woman is! "Rush Limbaugh in a miniskirt" is just not good enough as an epitaph for her. Rather, I hope she'll be forever remembered as a passionately misguided right-wing-America-firster who put the opening syllable in the word "country".
posted by Mike D at 7:51 PM on March 23, 2010 [10 favorites]
I would certainly blame the her speech on the people who invited her - they knew who she was, and what sort of rhetoric she used.
This surprised me though:
Inflammatory right-wing pundit Ann Coulter took aim at a University of Ottawa administrator on Monday, saying an email from the school warning her to use "restraint, respect and consideration" when addressing Ontario students during a speaking tour this week made her a victim of a "hate crime."
Apparently Ann believes that when people use speech to discuss a person (or group?) and the subjects are discomforted those words, that said speech should be criminalized. Of all people, I would have imagined Ann to be the staunchest defender of free speech rights, and vehemently opposed to attempts to criminalize hateful speech.
Seriously.
Now I wonder if Ann has any proposed punishments for those that engage in 'hate speech'.
posted by el io at 7:52 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
This surprised me though:
Inflammatory right-wing pundit Ann Coulter took aim at a University of Ottawa administrator on Monday, saying an email from the school warning her to use "restraint, respect and consideration" when addressing Ontario students during a speaking tour this week made her a victim of a "hate crime."
Apparently Ann believes that when people use speech to discuss a person (or group?) and the subjects are discomforted those words, that said speech should be criminalized. Of all people, I would have imagined Ann to be the staunchest defender of free speech rights, and vehemently opposed to attempts to criminalize hateful speech.
Seriously.
Now I wonder if Ann has any proposed punishments for those that engage in 'hate speech'.
posted by el io at 7:52 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Google "tubgirl". That's the mental image I always get when I think of Coulter.
(note: do not actually google tubgirl)
posted by fleetmouse at 7:53 PM on March 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
(note: do not actually google tubgirl)
posted by fleetmouse at 7:53 PM on March 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
>As an Ottawan, I was disappointed when news of the cancellation broke.
Well, the speech was scheduled to be held at a Canadian university, and it seems that most university students in Canada are decidedly left-wing and are up for energetically combating fascists - I'm surprised Levant didn't decide to schedule a talk in Quebec City or Vancouver (home of Canada's anarchos) for maximum PR opportunities, although I suppose he's forced to shell out $10k while refunding all of the Ottawa tickets.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:55 PM on March 23, 2010
Well, the speech was scheduled to be held at a Canadian university, and it seems that most university students in Canada are decidedly left-wing and are up for energetically combating fascists - I'm surprised Levant didn't decide to schedule a talk in Quebec City or Vancouver (home of Canada's anarchos) for maximum PR opportunities, although I suppose he's forced to shell out $10k while refunding all of the Ottawa tickets.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:55 PM on March 23, 2010
Go Ottawa! My hometown scared off the brave American freedom fighter with imaginary sticks and rocks! I think it's hilarious that the same person who allegedly "...sparked...controversy during a speech at University of Western Ontario Monday night when she told a 17-year-old Muslim student to “take a camel” instead of a the flying carpet she has previously suggested Muslims use for transportation" is now claiming she's the victim of hate crime because a university professor asked her to be polite. I hope she dies in a fire.
posted by Kirk Grim at 7:55 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Kirk Grim at 7:55 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Like last night at the University of Western Ontario, when she told a young Muslim woman who asked what alternative means of travel Coulter would suggest if her (Coulter's) wished-for ban against Muslims flying anywhere were to come to pass, and Coulter blithely suggested, "Take a camel".
Wow, I just...
Seriously?
posted by aclevername at 7:55 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Wow, I just...
Seriously?
posted by aclevername at 7:55 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
But in Ann's case I'll make an exception.
posted by nola at 7:57 PM on March 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
But in Ann's case I'll make an exception.
posted by nola at 7:57 PM on March 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
As an Ottawan, I was disappointed when news of the cancellation broke. Not because I'm a Coulter fan, but rather because I've always believed that fear of words is among the dumbest fears a thinking person can espouse.
You don't really think a bunch of Ottawa U students protested because they were afraid Coulter would corrupt their fellow students, do you? That's an argument for parents and administrators. Those students were exercising their right to free speech as well. (minus the "rocks and sticks" -- more than a few? I'll eat my sizeable hat)
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:58 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
You don't really think a bunch of Ottawa U students protested because they were afraid Coulter would corrupt their fellow students, do you? That's an argument for parents and administrators. Those students were exercising their right to free speech as well. (minus the "rocks and sticks" -- more than a few? I'll eat my sizeable hat)
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:58 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
The kerfuffle this has caused north of the border (if you tune into the right Twitter streams, you can hear several national editors hyperventilating at this very moment) is everything that's wrong with the Canadian mindset.
OMG a newsertainment demagogue whom nobody really pays attention to here is making ill-informed and incoherent statements, but she's making them ABOUT US, EVERYBODY! SHE'S MAKING INCOHERENT STATEMENTS ABOUT US!
posted by bicyclefish at 7:59 PM on March 23, 2010
OMG a newsertainment demagogue whom nobody really pays attention to here is making ill-informed and incoherent statements, but she's making them ABOUT US, EVERYBODY! SHE'S MAKING INCOHERENT STATEMENTS ABOUT US!
posted by bicyclefish at 7:59 PM on March 23, 2010
America, man... I thought we were cool. Why'd you have to go and dump this festering sack of manure on our side of the room?
We're sorry about Céline, alright? This is total overkill.
posted by CKmtl at 7:59 PM on March 23, 2010 [9 favorites]
We're sorry about Céline, alright? This is total overkill.
posted by CKmtl at 7:59 PM on March 23, 2010 [9 favorites]
With the ascendancy of Sarah Palin, well....
Ann's kind of become the Right's Marilyn Manson.
"Who's that chick?"
"Ehhh, back in the old days, she freaked people out. They scared easy then."
posted by jonmc at 8:03 PM on March 23, 2010 [48 favorites]
Ann's kind of become the Right's Marilyn Manson.
"Who's that chick?"
"Ehhh, back in the old days, she freaked people out. They scared easy then."
posted by jonmc at 8:03 PM on March 23, 2010 [48 favorites]
We're sorry about Céline, alright? This is total overkill.
Agreed. As an American please accept my heartfelt apology. Also I loved Peter Jennings, so thanks for that guy, and I was really sorry to see him go. For real.
posted by nola at 8:04 PM on March 23, 2010
Agreed. As an American please accept my heartfelt apology. Also I loved Peter Jennings, so thanks for that guy, and I was really sorry to see him go. For real.
posted by nola at 8:04 PM on March 23, 2010
Since it's not 1645, I'm not sure how likely that is - doubly so, because I think I saw it on Drudge Report ... Yes, there it is, "2000 protesters surrounding building with rocks and sticks "
Snowballs. Learn your damn stereotypes, Drudge.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:06 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Snowballs. Learn your damn stereotypes, Drudge.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:06 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Johnmc beat me to it, but I wonder if Coulter is less popular now that they have Palin.
posted by wittgenstein at 8:10 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by wittgenstein at 8:10 PM on March 23, 2010
Ann Coulter LIVES AGAIN! SHE RISES! SHE LIVES! SHE LOVES! ANN COULTER MEET ABBOTT AND COSTELLO! DENOUNCES THEM FOR BEING UNAMERICAN! ANN COULTER COULD BE UNDER YOUR BED RIGHT NOW! - SHE IS SKINNY ENOUGH!
posted by The Whelk at 8:17 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by The Whelk at 8:17 PM on March 23, 2010
> The sad thing is, a lot of Canadians really feel this way
Free speech and hate speech is a fascinating problem. Over the years I've come to the opinion that I'd rather have the neo-nazis spouting their shit in public rather than whispering it behind closed doors. I see it as a skin cancer vs. brain cancer kind of thing. Both nasty, but it's a lot easier to catch the first one early.
But then again: I'm a 29-year-old white male from the prairies. I'm not the target.
posted by Decimask at 8:18 PM on March 23, 2010 [6 favorites]
Free speech and hate speech is a fascinating problem. Over the years I've come to the opinion that I'd rather have the neo-nazis spouting their shit in public rather than whispering it behind closed doors. I see it as a skin cancer vs. brain cancer kind of thing. Both nasty, but it's a lot easier to catch the first one early.
But then again: I'm a 29-year-old white male from the prairies. I'm not the target.
posted by Decimask at 8:18 PM on March 23, 2010 [6 favorites]
Dear Canada,
If you keep her, you can be my best friend!
Yours,
It's Raining Florence Henderson
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:18 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
If you keep her, you can be my best friend!
Yours,
It's Raining Florence Henderson
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:18 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
It's an oldie, but a goodie; Thor Hesla's "Ann of a Thousand Lays" remains the best thing ever written about Ms. Coulter, a piece she could still learn something from if she wanted to. It's worth pointing out, too, that since writing that piece, the author was killed in Afghanistan while working for the USAID. Ms. Coulter could learn something from that, too.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:21 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 8:21 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Wow, what a polite and friendly note they sent to her. Did anyone seriously expect her to thank them for the heads-up like a healthy human being? The only way to communicate with an animal like that is through hair-flicking and congressional-bill-passing-over-her-party's-damn-decaying-corpse.
posted by Xezlec at 8:21 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by Xezlec at 8:21 PM on March 23, 2010
While Palin is more organically interesting cause she is, by all accounts, a beautiful combination of crazy evil venal and dumb, a veritable Atia who has no idea how she sounds and just keeps showing up cause ATTENTION and is slowing turning into a D-list joke- Ann Coulter is just so much WEIRDER, she's a crazy bunch of blond-tipped wheat crackers that is so clearly in it for the money that she can barely be bothered to be sober for interviews. It's the combination of naked cynicism and OMG BANANAS. Like, I know Sara Palin can cry on cue but I don't think Ann Coulter physically has tear ducts cause THEY CAUSE LINES and her trying to cry in some booze-fueled moment of self-revelation would just cause dry heaves and like lots of sweating.
posted by The Whelk at 8:25 PM on March 23, 2010 [24 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 8:25 PM on March 23, 2010 [24 favorites]
Free speech and hate speech is a fascinating problem. Over the years I've come to the opinion that I'd rather have the neo-nazis spouting their shit in public rather than whispering it behind closed doors. I see it as a skin cancer vs. brain cancer kind of thing. Both nasty, but it's a lot easier to catch the first one early.
I agree with that. That basketball player who said he hated gay people and then, forced by the controversy, broadened his experiences and finally apologized: that's the world I want to live in -- a world of constant challenge and evolution -- not one where people are gagged by fear of condemnation.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 8:25 PM on March 23, 2010 [9 favorites]
I agree with that. That basketball player who said he hated gay people and then, forced by the controversy, broadened his experiences and finally apologized: that's the world I want to live in -- a world of constant challenge and evolution -- not one where people are gagged by fear of condemnation.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 8:25 PM on March 23, 2010 [9 favorites]
Every time you type or read her name your IQ drops by 1 point.
As of this post, we're all down 28 points.
Permanently.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:27 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
As of this post, we're all down 28 points.
Permanently.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:27 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
She sparked more controversy during a speech at University of Western Ontario Monday night when she told a 17-year-old Muslim student to “take a camel” instead of a the flying carpet she has previously suggested Muslims use for transportation.
I think they need to do a full psychiatric evaluation on her. She is way beyond crazy. She must vomit after speaking because she disgusts herself.
posted by anniecat at 8:28 PM on March 23, 2010
I think they need to do a full psychiatric evaluation on her. She is way beyond crazy. She must vomit after speaking because she disgusts herself.
posted by anniecat at 8:28 PM on March 23, 2010
She's insane, but that doesn't make it OK to, like, lay siege with .. sticks.
They have to. Because obviously the oppressive socialist government of Canada took their guns away. Fortunately, instead of being melted down, the guns were sold to Americans in order to finance Canada's socialized medicine program.
posted by happyroach at 8:28 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
They have to. Because obviously the oppressive socialist government of Canada took their guns away. Fortunately, instead of being melted down, the guns were sold to Americans in order to finance Canada's socialized medicine program.
posted by happyroach at 8:28 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Every time you type or read her name your IQ drops by 1 point.
Whose name?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:29 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Whose name?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:29 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Madam Crazynaut Von Haterstein
posted by The Whelk at 8:30 PM on March 23, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 8:30 PM on March 23, 2010 [6 favorites]
Ann Coulter is just so much WEIRDER, she's a crazy bunch of blond-tipped wheat crackers that is so clearly in it for the money that she can barely be bothered to be sober for interviews.
Yeah, jonmc's Marilyn Manson dig fits. (well, at least the Onion article version of him) You don't say stupid and inflammatory things as often as she does accidentally.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:31 PM on March 23, 2010
Yeah, jonmc's Marilyn Manson dig fits. (well, at least the Onion article version of him) You don't say stupid and inflammatory things as often as she does accidentally.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:31 PM on March 23, 2010
I'm surprised that she was greeted with a standing O at Western. WTF LONDON, ONTARIO?
posted by Kirk Grim at 8:31 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Kirk Grim at 8:31 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
I hesitate to state any kind of opinion about Ann Coulter because no matter how I want to feel whenever she opens her mouth and the bullshit flows -- anger, disbelief, embarrassment for my country, embarrassment for my fellow human beings, embarrassment for my fellow carbon-based lifeforms -- it seems like if I came out and said I felt that, I'd be playing right into her hand. I wouldn't be surprised if she playing the hate crime card specifically to discredit the concept of hate crimes and the prosecution thereof.
She's a professional troll, plain and simple, who has nothing else going for her other than the "OMG! Did you hear what she said?!" factor. She's the worst kind of talking head because she doesn't do anything; she's just the kid on the playground who learned that if she takes the worst words she knows and uses them really loudly in front of everyone, some kids will laugh and cheer while other kids will run screaming to teacher and that's okay because no matter what, she gets attention. If the response isn't as big as she wanted, her language will become worse and worse.
So my fondest wish for her is that someday she becomes completely irrelevant and ignored, and she fully realizes it.
posted by Spatch at 8:32 PM on March 23, 2010 [19 favorites]
She's a professional troll, plain and simple, who has nothing else going for her other than the "OMG! Did you hear what she said?!" factor. She's the worst kind of talking head because she doesn't do anything; she's just the kid on the playground who learned that if she takes the worst words she knows and uses them really loudly in front of everyone, some kids will laugh and cheer while other kids will run screaming to teacher and that's okay because no matter what, she gets attention. If the response isn't as big as she wanted, her language will become worse and worse.
So my fondest wish for her is that someday she becomes completely irrelevant and ignored, and she fully realizes it.
posted by Spatch at 8:32 PM on March 23, 2010 [19 favorites]
Yeah, jonmc's Marilyn Manson dig fits. (well, at least the Onion article version of him) You don't say stupid and inflammatory things as often as she does accidentally.
We've got Actual Crazies now so we don't need your Fake Crazy kthx bye.
posted by The Whelk at 8:34 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
We've got Actual Crazies now so we don't need your Fake Crazy kthx bye.
posted by The Whelk at 8:34 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Having just moved from the vicinity of U of O, I just cannot believe the line about rocks and sticks. I can't see where you'd even find a supply of such things in Sandy Hill.
But Western? Oh there are plenty of fratboy/girl meathead types there who I can see applauding Coulter.
posted by Flashman at 8:35 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
But Western? Oh there are plenty of fratboy/girl meathead types there who I can see applauding Coulter.
posted by Flashman at 8:35 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Hate everything she says, think she should have every right to say it.
posted by Dumsnill at 8:37 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by Dumsnill at 8:37 PM on March 23, 2010
STOP LOOKING AT HER!!! IF YOU STOP LOOKING AT HER, SHE'LL EVENTUALLY GO AWAY!
posted by Salvor Hardin at 8:37 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Salvor Hardin at 8:37 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
I can't see where you'd even find a supply of such things in Sandy Hill.
Heh, that is an incredibly valid point. Not a lot of lush greenery happening around the concrete jungle that is Ottawa U.
posted by aclevername at 8:38 PM on March 23, 2010
Heh, that is an incredibly valid point. Not a lot of lush greenery happening around the concrete jungle that is Ottawa U.
posted by aclevername at 8:38 PM on March 23, 2010
Sweet, she's speaking at the University of Calgary on Thursday.
posted by threetoed at 8:39 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Thursday, March 25th, 2010: University of Calgary, Calgary, AlbertaNICE She's speaking in the same skeevy lecture hall my friend kyle threw up in after he did 10 shots of jamesons way back when we were in 2nd year, congrats Ann Coulter looks like u finally made it to the big time!!
LOCATION: Main Campus, ST (Science Theatres), Room 140
posted by threetoed at 8:39 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
She's just disappointed because we elected our own right wing party and it's still too commie pinko lefty for her. You can't please some people.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:40 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:40 PM on March 23, 2010
STOP LOOKING AT HER!!! IF YOU STOP LOOKING AT HER, SHE'LL EVENTUALLY GO AWAY!
Paul Anka: To stop those monsters 1-2-3,
Here's a fresh new way that's trouble-free,
It's got Paul Anka's guarantee...
Lisa: Guarantee void in Tennessee.
All: Just don't look! Just don't look!
Just don't look! Just don't look!
Just don't look! Just don't look!
posted by The Whelk at 8:42 PM on March 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
Paul Anka: To stop those monsters 1-2-3,
Here's a fresh new way that's trouble-free,
It's got Paul Anka's guarantee...
Lisa: Guarantee void in Tennessee.
All: Just don't look! Just don't look!
Just don't look! Just don't look!
Just don't look! Just don't look!
posted by The Whelk at 8:42 PM on March 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
> I'm surprised that she was greeted with a standing O at Western.
I went to Western and I am not surprised at all.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:43 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
I went to Western and I am not surprised at all.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:43 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
I hesitate to state any kind of opinion about Ann Coulter because no matter how I want to feel whenever she opens her mouth and the bullshit flows -- anger, disbelief, embarrassment for my country, embarrassment for my fellow human beings, embarrassment for my fellow carbon-based lifeforms -- it seems like if I came out and said I felt that, I'd be playing right into her hand.
This, for me. I wish her so much pain and misfortune it hurts me to say it. Best to just ignore her.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:46 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
This, for me. I wish her so much pain and misfortune it hurts me to say it. Best to just ignore her.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:46 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I work as an admin at a Canadian university, and my guess is that UWO-- who did not invite Coulter, it was a student group who did so-- sent the letter so that they wouldn't get caught in any crossfire had she shown up and spouted a bunch of stuff that might cross over into hate speech. By notifying her (and very politely, too!) of Canadian laws around freedom of expression, they were not only giving her a heads up, so she couldn't claim ignorance; they were distancing themselves from anything she might say while actually on campus, which they are responsible for running. It's not a bad move on their part; they're doing advance damage control.
Glad the event at the UWO was cancelled; a publicly funded educational institution is not the right place, unless you just want to provoke. Those who invited her can book an alternate venue and she can talk all she likes.
posted by jokeefe at 8:56 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Glad the event at the UWO was cancelled; a publicly funded educational institution is not the right place, unless you just want to provoke. Those who invited her can book an alternate venue and she can talk all she likes.
posted by jokeefe at 8:56 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'd just like to repost the best Ann Coulter interview ever conducted by Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight
His opening question: "Our publishers gave us chapter one [of your book]. Does it get any better?"
posted by Len at 8:58 PM on March 23, 2010 [7 favorites]
His opening question: "Our publishers gave us chapter one [of your book]. Does it get any better?"
posted by Len at 8:58 PM on March 23, 2010 [7 favorites]
Ann Coulter is a performance artist. It's like the Truman Show, only in reverse.
posted by milarepa at 9:02 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by milarepa at 9:02 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Having just moved from the vicinity of U of O, I just cannot believe the line about rocks and sticks. I can't see where you'd even find a supply of such things in Sandy Hill.
Probably curling rocks and hockey sticks. How close was the speaking venue to the athletics centre?
posted by mazola at 9:03 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Probably curling rocks and hockey sticks. How close was the speaking venue to the athletics centre?
posted by mazola at 9:03 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
She's speaking in the same skeevy lecture hall my friend kyle threw up in after he did 10 shots of jamesons way back when we were in 2nd year, congrats Ann Coulter looks like u finally made it to the big time!!
Hey, I TEACH in that lecture hall! Sociology 201, MWF 1-1:50. I should leave Ann a present.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 9:07 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Hey, I TEACH in that lecture hall! Sociology 201, MWF 1-1:50. I should leave Ann a present.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 9:07 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Wow, I just...
Seriously?
Well, no, of course not. Do you want to be famous? Pander to one audience, and say blatantly offensive things to the other. Done and done. Of course, that's if you want to be famous but don't mind being hated by many people in return for being beloved by some others.
I mean, she is the living embodiment of a troll. Why people keep feeding her, I have no idea.
posted by davejay at 9:15 PM on March 23, 2010
Seriously?
Well, no, of course not. Do you want to be famous? Pander to one audience, and say blatantly offensive things to the other. Done and done. Of course, that's if you want to be famous but don't mind being hated by many people in return for being beloved by some others.
I mean, she is the living embodiment of a troll. Why people keep feeding her, I have no idea.
posted by davejay at 9:15 PM on March 23, 2010
The sad thing is, she'll probably go over famously in Calgary. I saw Steve Earle in concert here last year and he said it best - Alberta is the closest place to Texas he's ever been.
As much as I hate that fucking ugly-ass loudmouth bitch, the thing to do is ignore it. Kill the head and the body will die.
posted by jimmythefish at 9:16 PM on March 23, 2010
As much as I hate that fucking ugly-ass loudmouth bitch, the thing to do is ignore it. Kill the head and the body will die.
posted by jimmythefish at 9:16 PM on March 23, 2010
As an Ottawan, I am lamenting the humourous Ottawa-themed soundbites that would be been surfacing from her speech right about now...
4channers take note: Professional trolls can get rich!
posted by Theta States at 9:26 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
4channers take note: Professional trolls can get rich!
posted by Theta States at 9:26 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
Ann Coulter is hot.
posted by Bovine Love at 10:26 PM on March 23 [+] [!]
Another one for the 'if that's not eponysterical, I don't know what is' category.
posted by jimmythefish at 9:29 PM on March 23, 2010 [13 favorites]
posted by Bovine Love at 10:26 PM on March 23 [+] [!]
Another one for the 'if that's not eponysterical, I don't know what is' category.
posted by jimmythefish at 9:29 PM on March 23, 2010 [13 favorites]
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
posted by roll truck roll at 9:35 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by roll truck roll at 9:35 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Google "I want you to wreck this."
And then google "love letter to ann coulter."
It must be tough trying to stay relevant when all the foxy newsy wingnutty kids are dunking their teabags now and you're seen as more like one of those fancy-schmancy lahtay drinkers.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:37 PM on March 23, 2010
And then google "love letter to ann coulter."
It must be tough trying to stay relevant when all the foxy newsy wingnutty kids are dunking their teabags now and you're seen as more like one of those fancy-schmancy lahtay drinkers.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:37 PM on March 23, 2010
Ann Coulter is just so much WEIRDER, she's a crazy bunch of blond-tipped wheat crackers that is so clearly in it for the money that she can barely be bothered to be sober for interviews. It's the combination of naked cynicism and OMG BANANAS.
Yeah, I don't think she really believes most of what she says, or any of it. She's just really good at pushing people's buttons, and she found her niche getting paid as a conservative troll. She'd bother me more if I thought she cared at all, but her lifestyle will eventually unravel in a bad way, and she'll probably end up irrelevant and a broken shell of a human being, so I kind of feel sorry for her.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:39 PM on March 23, 2010
Yeah, I don't think she really believes most of what she says, or any of it. She's just really good at pushing people's buttons, and she found her niche getting paid as a conservative troll. She'd bother me more if I thought she cared at all, but her lifestyle will eventually unravel in a bad way, and she'll probably end up irrelevant and a broken shell of a human being, so I kind of feel sorry for her.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:39 PM on March 23, 2010
4channers take note: Professional trolls can get rich!
It makes me wonder how many of these people who froth so easily at the mouth are actually genuine -- crazy is so damn entertaining, so damn lucrative.
The Boondocks' take on Ann Coulter
posted by emeiji at 9:39 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
It makes me wonder how many of these people who froth so easily at the mouth are actually genuine -- crazy is so damn entertaining, so damn lucrative.
The Boondocks' take on Ann Coulter
posted by emeiji at 9:39 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
jonmc's Marilyn Manson dig fits
But Marilyn Manson is actually intelligent.
posted by amyms at 9:40 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
But Marilyn Manson is actually intelligent.
posted by amyms at 9:40 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Meant to link to this in my comment above about Marilyn Manson.
posted by amyms at 9:43 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by amyms at 9:43 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
-46 IQ and dropping.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:43 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:43 PM on March 23, 2010
Man, I had already written a review about leaving during the intermission.
posted by Pockets at 9:46 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Pockets at 9:46 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm just sad that there are enough Canadians interested in Coulter to warrant an appearance. I'm an American, but I expected better of Canada.
posted by doctor_negative at 9:51 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by doctor_negative at 9:51 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
But Marilyn Manson is actually intelligent.
Hence the "Onion article version" part of my statement. Sorry. I thought that link had been flogged to death by now.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:53 PM on March 23, 2010
Hence the "Onion article version" part of my statement. Sorry. I thought that link had been flogged to death by now.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:53 PM on March 23, 2010
Man I love The Boondocks.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:53 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:53 PM on March 23, 2010
Damn, too slow. Mine goes straight to the best part, though.
posted by paisley henosis at 9:54 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by paisley henosis at 9:54 PM on March 23, 2010
The crime would be not hating her.
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:06 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:06 PM on March 23, 2010
GOD DAMNIT, I FED THE TROLL AGAIN!
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:07 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:07 PM on March 23, 2010
I saw Steve Earle in concert here last year and he said it best - Alberta is the closest place to Texas he's ever been.
Which is why he played to a sold-out crowd of adoring fans at the Calgary Folk Festival? What a reductionist, cliched and bullshit observation.
Here's a homework assignment for you: Look up rates of religiosity in Alberta and Texas and PM me with your results. After that, look up rates of public transit usage in Calgary and Dallas and PM me your findings. Finally, tell me in what year Alberta legalised same-sex partner adoption and then the year Texas did.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 10:11 PM on March 23, 2010 [6 favorites]
Which is why he played to a sold-out crowd of adoring fans at the Calgary Folk Festival? What a reductionist, cliched and bullshit observation.
Here's a homework assignment for you: Look up rates of religiosity in Alberta and Texas and PM me with your results. After that, look up rates of public transit usage in Calgary and Dallas and PM me your findings. Finally, tell me in what year Alberta legalised same-sex partner adoption and then the year Texas did.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 10:11 PM on March 23, 2010 [6 favorites]
I once caught Colin James at the Winnipeg Folk Festival.
I am in no way suggesting that Ann Coulter is a "voodoo thing". In no way.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:19 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am in no way suggesting that Ann Coulter is a "voodoo thing". In no way.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:19 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
But in Ann's case I'll make an exception.
But I won't. And I'll tell you why, even though you may not care. (By the way I did not read any comments after the above highlight, so if I'm repeating anything that was said above I apologize.)
I don't know Canadian law. But I know a bit about free speech in the good 'ol USA.
And even Ann Coulter has the right to spew whatever she does. And for the most part we all should champion her right to do so.
NOT when she swerves into outright hate speech. But that's covered by law as well.
BUT she is covered by the law even if she says things that offend you (or me, and she does, don't get me wrong).
We don't get to slap a gag on someone who offends our judgment, opinions or political leanings. I can call George Bush a scumbag. I can call the Teabaggers inbred morons. That's my right. She can call me anything she wants to, as long as she does not incite a riot or call for someone to injure someone else.
Please correct me if I'm out of line or incorrect at any point.
I will say, she is an opportunistic leech who takes advantage of people who are uninformed or outright stupid. She makes her cash and laughs at the people who hate her.
But she has a right to do that.
And if it came down to it, I'd rather support her right to say, within reason whatever her little pea brain spouts out.
Instead of saying, hey, you don't get to spout what you want to spout. But I get to spew what I want to spew. Because, I'm right.
It don't work that way.
If she breaks a law, lock her up. Same for me. And you.
Otherwise, spew away.
posted by Splunge at 10:20 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
But in Ann's case I'll make an exception.
But I won't. And I'll tell you why, even though you may not care. (By the way I did not read any comments after the above highlight, so if I'm repeating anything that was said above I apologize.)
I don't know Canadian law. But I know a bit about free speech in the good 'ol USA.
And even Ann Coulter has the right to spew whatever she does. And for the most part we all should champion her right to do so.
NOT when she swerves into outright hate speech. But that's covered by law as well.
BUT she is covered by the law even if she says things that offend you (or me, and she does, don't get me wrong).
We don't get to slap a gag on someone who offends our judgment, opinions or political leanings. I can call George Bush a scumbag. I can call the Teabaggers inbred morons. That's my right. She can call me anything she wants to, as long as she does not incite a riot or call for someone to injure someone else.
Please correct me if I'm out of line or incorrect at any point.
I will say, she is an opportunistic leech who takes advantage of people who are uninformed or outright stupid. She makes her cash and laughs at the people who hate her.
But she has a right to do that.
And if it came down to it, I'd rather support her right to say, within reason whatever her little pea brain spouts out.
Instead of saying, hey, you don't get to spout what you want to spout. But I get to spew what I want to spew. Because, I'm right.
It don't work that way.
If she breaks a law, lock her up. Same for me. And you.
Otherwise, spew away.
posted by Splunge at 10:20 PM on March 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
You know, I had never thought about Ann Coulter for more than 5 minutes before I created this post. I've never watched Fox News or the O'Reilly Factor (Fox is not broadcast in Canada), and I tuned out of American political commentary when it got too painful back in 2005 and W's reelection.
Anyway, without trying to sound like your typical smug and sanctimonious Canadian MeFite, Coulter's brand of harsh, trollish, provocative commentary doesn't really exist in Canada, or if it does, it's pretty low key.
So all of the fuss about Coulter's speaking engagement became... a fuss, and like a rube I posted it to MetaFilter.
But good God, guys, your political pundits - especially Coulter and Beck and Palin - seem to have jumped straight from the pages of a Philip K. Dick novel. It's very strange.
Give me Jeffrey Simpson any day.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:23 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Anyway, without trying to sound like your typical smug and sanctimonious Canadian MeFite, Coulter's brand of harsh, trollish, provocative commentary doesn't really exist in Canada, or if it does, it's pretty low key.
So all of the fuss about Coulter's speaking engagement became... a fuss, and like a rube I posted it to MetaFilter.
But good God, guys, your political pundits - especially Coulter and Beck and Palin - seem to have jumped straight from the pages of a Philip K. Dick novel. It's very strange.
Give me Jeffrey Simpson any day.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:23 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
I go to University of Ottawa and was there today. I hoped to see her talk just to watch the fireworks. You know, the inevitable people shouting and getting kicked out by security and getting to laugh at the absurd things she says (though I doubt believes). The talk was supposed to be at 7:30, so I got there around 6:15 expecting a line. I was right! At that time, maybe just over a hundred people were there. As 7:30 neared, I'd say around a thousand. The parking lot in front of the building she was supposed to speak in was filled. Cop cars showed up, so did students with megaphones. Boisterous? Hardly. Unless typical chanting and sign holding and pin-wearing counts. I think what pushed it over the edge was that at 7:30, just as my friends and I had made it up in the line enough to be inside the warm building out of the wet, cold awful weather we had today, someone had pulled a fire alarm. They had to follow protocol and kick everyone out of the building. This obviously did not delight the masses. When the firetruck came, the crowd didn't part to let it through. That's when I left because I figured after being kicked out into the crowd of a thousand, my chances of getting in had just been reduced dramatically, but I can also bet that's about when things got bad enough for them to want to cancel the speech.
Why was the fire alarm pulled? Well our student government wanted to ban her from speaking because they said she delivered "hate speech". The best and most ironic part of this whole thing is that her topic today was ostensibly related to free speech. So many of the most vocal protesters were there in the parking lot to protest the fact that she was even allowed to be there in the first place, so I can only guess as to what group the person who pulled the fire alarm may have belonged to.
My take on it: People can say what they want. Ann Coulter presumably paid the school to rent the space to deliver the speech. If no one showed up, it would have been money in the bag. If people had shown up, behaved respectably and let her move on, it still would have been so. By forcing a cancellation of her talk on free speech, she's been given exactly what she wants. Controversy is this woman's livelihood. Our student federation, by the way, are the types of people who would probably light themselves on fire in protest if they experienced any censorship from the administration. Way to go, you bunch of children for turning what should have been a run of the mill speech from a bigot into a national news item and furthering her career.
posted by battlebison at 10:27 PM on March 23, 2010 [12 favorites]
Why was the fire alarm pulled? Well our student government wanted to ban her from speaking because they said she delivered "hate speech". The best and most ironic part of this whole thing is that her topic today was ostensibly related to free speech. So many of the most vocal protesters were there in the parking lot to protest the fact that she was even allowed to be there in the first place, so I can only guess as to what group the person who pulled the fire alarm may have belonged to.
My take on it: People can say what they want. Ann Coulter presumably paid the school to rent the space to deliver the speech. If no one showed up, it would have been money in the bag. If people had shown up, behaved respectably and let her move on, it still would have been so. By forcing a cancellation of her talk on free speech, she's been given exactly what she wants. Controversy is this woman's livelihood. Our student federation, by the way, are the types of people who would probably light themselves on fire in protest if they experienced any censorship from the administration. Way to go, you bunch of children for turning what should have been a run of the mill speech from a bigot into a national news item and furthering her career.
posted by battlebison at 10:27 PM on March 23, 2010 [12 favorites]
P.S. There were definitely no rocks and sticks.
posted by battlebison at 10:28 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by battlebison at 10:28 PM on March 23, 2010
She's the Paris Hilton of jackasses; famous for being famous.
Or am I wrong? Has she actually done anything to deserve the kind of attention she now enjoys for merely opening her mouth?
posted by i_have_a_computer at 10:31 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Or am I wrong? Has she actually done anything to deserve the kind of attention she now enjoys for merely opening her mouth?
posted by i_have_a_computer at 10:31 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
So when I noticed this story in the Vancouver Sun webline edition earlier, I was going to post this attached screed into the most recent "tea party: Window smashing spree edition post" (including my strong and growing annoyance at the sensationalist word choices... because again, this "politics as violent bloody war conflict strife" meme is coming up again... Ms. Palin today using "hunting" and other violent crazy rhetoric, and "sniper sight" target marks, on a "target" list... "to show people who to target"... and if something bad ever happens, she will claim innocence. Can we please start to just 'talk' about things... instead of making everything into a remake of a trailer synopsis for "bloodsport metaphor; semaphore two"... But then I had things to do, and couldn't remember if Ms. Coulter partook in the purchase of Tea Parties or what she did... so I put it aside... but since it got posted, so; with all due respect and no further ado, Ms. Coulter, LEAVE CANADA RIGHT ALONE.
Don't worry everybody...Right-wing U.S. firebrand Ann Coulter will file grievance with Canadian rights panel. Ann Coulter is going to end the "human rights regime" in Canada single-handedly... She will tear down that protective wall preventing bigots from dominating the debate of the nation... Fear not Nation; friendly faced smiling socialism will surely fall by the 11 O'clock News. And people who enjoy being openly and publicly, and vehemently bigots... can go back to doing what it is they do, with their "pot stirring"... or whatever they are telling themselves these days.
(See also; sitting in basements, looking up Arabic words that make Muslims seem like teh evil... then trumpeting those words around like that suddenly means that 'the takeover' is coming.)
..."to loud cheers from the 800-strong audience."
Or will she make all the Canadians who weren't there in that audience cheering realize why they created those protections and held them just ever so slightly above that "free speech" bullyby-line (IMHO; the only way to stem the steady tide of corporate speech... is to ban ALL free speech ;) Also, it is quite clear that Ann Coulter doesn't understand how the Human Rights Commission works in Canada.
I hardly see this message from the administration to Coulter as a "warning"... more like a friendly Canadian letter detailing some of the differences in law between two nations...
Is Coulter a true blood Tea Partyr? What about people who used WORDS... WHICH incite violence... do you defend them? Or the person who will face the hatred and violence that her MISLEADING words convince people with non-total information. (Making decisions without full awareness of the reality of the situation.) The recent violent rhetoric from the Redparty is getting scary.
This "patriotism" only when I am personally in Power thing is getting old. I do not LIKE violent people who are fueled on aggression dominating the debate.
They call it civil society because you are supposed to share, and then debate ideas, without starting you point with an ad-hominem, and a "your culture is evil", or whatever bigot style remark is on the top of your brain.
Love's ya Canadia... why? Because;
You get that "Freedoms"... are trumped by Rights.
"You" can say what you want. But if your Rhetoric will potentially lead to me dying or facing a society that hates, shows open prejudice against, or leads to concerted racism. No... I would hope that my government would protect me. Wouldn't you?
All that said... she got to talk... was in no 'danger' of being picked up by Canadian made standard issue black helicopters... and once again, the rightwing fascist emulator got to play victim to the big evil human rights machine...
so yeah, she wins, kind of. But not really.
posted by infinite intimation at 10:33 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Don't worry everybody...Right-wing U.S. firebrand Ann Coulter will file grievance with Canadian rights panel. Ann Coulter is going to end the "human rights regime" in Canada single-handedly... She will tear down that protective wall preventing bigots from dominating the debate of the nation... Fear not Nation; friendly faced smiling socialism will surely fall by the 11 O'clock News. And people who enjoy being openly and publicly, and vehemently bigots... can go back to doing what it is they do, with their "pot stirring"... or whatever they are telling themselves these days.
(See also; sitting in basements, looking up Arabic words that make Muslims seem like teh evil... then trumpeting those words around like that suddenly means that 'the takeover' is coming.)
and yet THIS is the part that makes me take a cold hard look double take at all Canadians right now..
Inflammatory right-wing pundit Ann Coulter took aim at a University of Ottawa administrator Monday night, saying an e-mail from the school warning her to use “restraint, respect and consideration” when addressing Ontario students during a speaking tour this week made her a victim of a “hate crime.”
Speaking to students and academics at the University of Western Ontario Monday, Coulter said the e-mail sent to her Friday by Francois Houle, vice-president academic and provost of the University of Ottawa, targeted her as a member of an identifiable group and as such, she will be filing a complaint with the Human Rights Commission alleging hate speech.
“I’m sure the Human Rights Commission will get to the bottom of it,” Coulter said...
..."to loud cheers from the 800-strong audience."
Or will she make all the Canadians who weren't there in that audience cheering realize why they created those protections and held them just ever so slightly above that "free speech" bullyby-line (IMHO; the only way to stem the steady tide of corporate speech... is to ban ALL free speech ;) Also, it is quite clear that Ann Coulter doesn't understand how the Human Rights Commission works in Canada.
I hardly see this message from the administration to Coulter as a "warning"... more like a friendly Canadian letter detailing some of the differences in law between two nations...
“Our domestic laws, both provincial and federal, delineate freedom of expression (or ‘free speech’) in a manner that is somewhat different than the approach taken in the United States. I therefore encourage you to educate yourself, if need be, as to what is acceptable in Canada and to do so before your planned visit here.”Someone needs to write a better thesaurus and market it to "Journalists!". Seriously, everything 'political' people do isn't a "cosmic struggle", or "war", or "battle"... these people are not "lobbing word grenades", there is not "line in the sand".
Is Coulter a true blood Tea Partyr? What about people who used WORDS... WHICH incite violence... do you defend them? Or the person who will face the hatred and violence that her MISLEADING words convince people with non-total information. (Making decisions without full awareness of the reality of the situation.) The recent violent rhetoric from the Redparty is getting scary.
This "patriotism" only when I am personally in Power thing is getting old. I do not LIKE violent people who are fueled on aggression dominating the debate.
They call it civil society because you are supposed to share, and then debate ideas, without starting you point with an ad-hominem, and a "your culture is evil", or whatever bigot style remark is on the top of your brain.
Love's ya Canadia... why? Because;
You get that "Freedoms"... are trumped by Rights.
"You" can say what you want. But if your Rhetoric will potentially lead to me dying or facing a society that hates, shows open prejudice against, or leads to concerted racism. No... I would hope that my government would protect me. Wouldn't you?
All that said... she got to talk... was in no 'danger' of being picked up by Canadian made standard issue black helicopters... and once again, the rightwing fascist emulator got to play victim to the big evil human rights machine...
so yeah, she wins, kind of. But not really.
posted by infinite intimation at 10:33 PM on March 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
battlebison: My take on it: People can say what they want. Ann Coulter presumably paid the school to rent the space to deliver the speech. If no one showed up, it would have been money in the bag.
I think national best-selling authors usually get some sort of speaking fee, rather than paying for the privilege to speak.
posted by paisley henosis at 10:34 PM on March 23, 2010
I think national best-selling authors usually get some sort of speaking fee, rather than paying for the privilege to speak.
posted by paisley henosis at 10:34 PM on March 23, 2010
Ann Coulter presumably paid the school to rent the space to deliver the speech.
Somehow, I doubt that.
posted by trondant at 10:36 PM on March 23, 2010
Somehow, I doubt that.
posted by trondant at 10:36 PM on March 23, 2010
I've just been looking at the Globe and the CBC's coverage of this protest and nowhere did I see any mention of weapons of any kind. No sticks, no stones. Maybe her ticket sales just weren't very good?
posted by stinkycheese at 10:37 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by stinkycheese at 10:37 PM on March 23, 2010
There weren't really supposed to be tickets. If you had a student card or had registered ahead of time, you would get in free. $10 for anyone else. Though by the time that alarm was pulled, I don't think anybody had a chance to pay.
Also, I guess I take it back about |money in the bag" then. I guess my leftist Canadian university student part said "There's no way anyone would actually pay her to talk here, is there?"
posted by battlebison at 10:40 PM on March 23, 2010
Also, I guess I take it back about |money in the bag" then. I guess my leftist Canadian university student part said "There's no way anyone would actually pay her to talk here, is there?"
posted by battlebison at 10:40 PM on March 23, 2010
I'm surprised that she was greeted with a standing O at Western. WTF LONDON, ONTARIO?
Oh, as someone who did most of his growing-up in London, ON, I can assure you that it is not an especially lefty town. It's mid-sized, but with a small-town mindset that I found suffocating as a non-white, ambiguously-classed, gay child and teenager. The university students should be a bit more liberal than the townies…
posted by LMGM at 10:58 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh, as someone who did most of his growing-up in London, ON, I can assure you that it is not an especially lefty town. It's mid-sized, but with a small-town mindset that I found suffocating as a non-white, ambiguously-classed, gay child and teenager. The university students should be a bit more liberal than the townies…
posted by LMGM at 10:58 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Right-wing U.S. firebrand Ann Coulter will file grievance with Canadian rights panel
Does she actually have legal standing to do so, being a non citizen?
posted by edgeways at 11:07 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Does she actually have legal standing to do so, being a non citizen?
posted by edgeways at 11:07 PM on March 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
our student government wanted to ban her from speaking because they said she delivered "hate speech"
I get your point about the pro-free speech student government trying to limit speech. But the scare quotes are probably unnecessary.
posted by Kirk Grim at 11:09 PM on March 23, 2010
I get your point about the pro-free speech student government trying to limit speech. But the scare quotes are probably unnecessary.
posted by Kirk Grim at 11:09 PM on March 23, 2010
>>I'm surprised that she was greeted with a standing O at Western. WTF LONDON, ONTARIO?
Oh, as someone who did most of his growing-up in London, ON, I can assure you that it is not an especially lefty town.
I went to the University of Victoria, which was probably one of the most left-wing universities in Canada in the early 90s (but more on the feminist side of the spectrum, rather than, say the Marxist side, which would be SFU), and I remember being absolutely shocked one summer when I worked with a student from Western who used the word "frosh".
Frats were not allowed on campus at UVic.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:16 PM on March 23, 2010
Oh, as someone who did most of his growing-up in London, ON, I can assure you that it is not an especially lefty town.
I went to the University of Victoria, which was probably one of the most left-wing universities in Canada in the early 90s (but more on the feminist side of the spectrum, rather than, say the Marxist side, which would be SFU), and I remember being absolutely shocked one summer when I worked with a student from Western who used the word "frosh".
Frats were not allowed on campus at UVic.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:16 PM on March 23, 2010
Nope, the warning was a very, very bad idea.
How so? Most Canadians couldn't give a shit whether that hateful expletive has a forum for her voice in this country. The worst that happens is that she gets to stir up her American mob a bit. No skin off our ass. She's their problem.
The sad thing is, a lot of Canadians really feel this way.
You know what? It's not that sad. Outrageous hate speech is uncivil and we do not need to support those who would profit by it. There's no slippery slope in play: telling Ann Coulter to fuck off is not a step toward the tyranny of the state. And especially so when it's not even the state that's telling her to keep it civil.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:22 PM on March 23, 2010 [11 favorites]
How so? Most Canadians couldn't give a shit whether that hateful expletive has a forum for her voice in this country. The worst that happens is that she gets to stir up her American mob a bit. No skin off our ass. She's their problem.
The sad thing is, a lot of Canadians really feel this way.
You know what? It's not that sad. Outrageous hate speech is uncivil and we do not need to support those who would profit by it. There's no slippery slope in play: telling Ann Coulter to fuck off is not a step toward the tyranny of the state. And especially so when it's not even the state that's telling her to keep it civil.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:22 PM on March 23, 2010 [11 favorites]
It's a measure of how far out on the ledge the conservative rhetoric has gotten lately that Ann Coulter has to go to Canada to get any attention. It is a measure of how far to the right Canada has shifted that she gets an audience there.
posted by vapidave at 11:32 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by vapidave at 11:32 PM on March 23, 2010
I think it's absolutely inconsequential whether she is or is not allowed to speak. I don't think there is any negative outcome for our society if shut her down and very little negative outcome if we let her speak. She is pretty much irrelevant.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:35 PM on March 23, 2010
posted by five fresh fish at 11:35 PM on March 23, 2010
KokoRyu: I remember being absolutely shocked one summer when I worked with a student from Western who used the word "frosh"... Frats were not allowed on campus at UVic.
In Ontario, the word "frosh" wasn't frat-related at all. Just a synonym for "freshman." (At least at Guelph and U of T, where I put in some hard time.)
posted by bicyclefish at 11:45 PM on March 23, 2010
In Ontario, the word "frosh" wasn't frat-related at all. Just a synonym for "freshman." (At least at Guelph and U of T, where I put in some hard time.)
posted by bicyclefish at 11:45 PM on March 23, 2010
Just in case it's not clear to non-Canuckistanis herein, I just wanted to note that Ezra Levant (first link) is our National Douchebag. It's a significant position, though of course it lacks the prestige and fancy digs on the banks of the Rideau of the Governor General. The main job is to continually bray American right-wing talking points through any megaphone available in any and all circumstances. Also, I'm told, the occasional National Post op-ed denouncing the national health care system and/or Walmart Supercentre ribbon cutting.
But much like the G-G must occasionally pretend to enjoy eating seal meat, you must, as the Natl. DB, sometimes drink directly from your master's bilious spitoon. Hence Ezra Levant Presents Ann Coulter.
We apologize. If it's any consolation, there's not enough of us nationwide who think this is anything more than a sideshow to fill your average Rust Belt downtown's high school football stadium.
posted by gompa at 12:00 AM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
But much like the G-G must occasionally pretend to enjoy eating seal meat, you must, as the Natl. DB, sometimes drink directly from your master's bilious spitoon. Hence Ezra Levant Presents Ann Coulter.
We apologize. If it's any consolation, there's not enough of us nationwide who think this is anything more than a sideshow to fill your average Rust Belt downtown's high school football stadium.
posted by gompa at 12:00 AM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
The Western Standard was nothing more than a vehicle for shysters plugging gold mines and investments in gold, and real estate development schemes, all wrapped up with a whole lot of vanity publishing.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:12 AM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by KokuRyu at 12:12 AM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
"I was at the Ann Coulter speech/riot".
I wasn't. That guy was.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:47 AM on March 24, 2010
I wasn't. That guy was.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:47 AM on March 24, 2010
Outrageous hate speech is uncivil and we do not need to support those who would profit by it. There's no slippery slope in play: telling Ann Coulter to fuck off is not a step toward the tyranny of the state.
This is pretty much the same attitude I have about the whole thing. It reminds me of the Danish Mohammed cartoons where the hard line free speech "defend to the death" crowd were throwing the cartoons up on their blogs in solidarity. Free speech doesn't mean there's no consequences to anything you say. When you say something to a large audience with the specific intention of provoking anger, people will probably get angry. Some of these people may react angrily, some may even get violent. Point is, in the case of Coulter and the cartoons, they do this to generate attention and to offend--and this may be cynical but I find it hard to believe there's any motivation for it other than for their own gain, despite them both arguably being meant to generate some kind of discourse.
Sure, you have the right to say "bomb them and kill their leaders and convert them to christianity", and sure you can have a contest to see who can draw funny pictures of Mohammed as a terrorist. I happen to think it's an asshole thing to do, but that's your perogative. But free speech does not mean I need to have your back when all the people you slandered and deliberately pissed off "just because" catch up with you. It means the cops show up if things get out of hand.
posted by Kirk Grim at 12:48 AM on March 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
This is pretty much the same attitude I have about the whole thing. It reminds me of the Danish Mohammed cartoons where the hard line free speech "defend to the death" crowd were throwing the cartoons up on their blogs in solidarity. Free speech doesn't mean there's no consequences to anything you say. When you say something to a large audience with the specific intention of provoking anger, people will probably get angry. Some of these people may react angrily, some may even get violent. Point is, in the case of Coulter and the cartoons, they do this to generate attention and to offend--and this may be cynical but I find it hard to believe there's any motivation for it other than for their own gain, despite them both arguably being meant to generate some kind of discourse.
Sure, you have the right to say "bomb them and kill their leaders and convert them to christianity", and sure you can have a contest to see who can draw funny pictures of Mohammed as a terrorist. I happen to think it's an asshole thing to do, but that's your perogative. But free speech does not mean I need to have your back when all the people you slandered and deliberately pissed off "just because" catch up with you. It means the cops show up if things get out of hand.
posted by Kirk Grim at 12:48 AM on March 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
Conrad Black on his friend Ann: "She is eccentric, alluring and slightly outrageous, with a hint of being a bit gamey."
posted by benzenedream at 1:48 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by benzenedream at 1:48 AM on March 24, 2010
Coulter is as welcome as anyone to rent a hall and put out a sign advertising her talk, and to charge money for it, as well. University administration also is within their rights to send her a (private) email informing her, politely, that she might not want to act the provocateur in Canada in the same way that she does at home, and further to cancel her talk when it seemed like it might cause disruption to the campus. Complaining to the HRC about the whole thing is, however, tremendously funny, and I'm sure that will go well for her.
posted by jokeefe at 1:52 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by jokeefe at 1:52 AM on March 24, 2010
I absolutely think that she believes everything she says. Good lawd people, don't you all have right-wing arseholes in your families? They're everywhere and they're not all complete arseholes, at least not in the same league as this woman who, along with being a member of the extreme right-wing also happens to be incredibly arrogant; one of these people who takes pride in their ability to say whatever they want, right or wrong, and not give a shit about anyone who calls them on it.
But the thing I've noticed with people like this, particularly in one-on-one interviews, is that they're taking full advantage of the fact that calling them out on what they're saying is really fucking difficult because what they do is all based on anecdotes. She says 'a kid wanted to say god in her valedictorian speech and the microphone was ripped from her hands because government schools are run by liberals' and most people wouldn't be able to come up with proof, on the spot, that this categorically Did Not Happen, so if they say in response 'that sounds like complete bullshit' it's quite possible for her to say 'oh yeah? Well, this happened on July 28, 1997 and blah blah blah further detail etc' and if it's not something that's been reported widely then it's so very much easier for her to assert it than for it to be disproved.
And then that will get taken up by people who believe the same things and bandied around, meanwhile those of us who think that all this talk is utter bullshit find it so much harder to prove that these assertions are wrong because if it didn't happen, where's the proof?
Meanwhile, Ms HateyPants is going on press tours and spouting all kinds of shit, and the people she's talking to who don't agree with her mostly aren't trying to refute the claims but instead are focusing on the fact that the person up there who's being revolting is revolting, and they'll say 'god, she's full of shit' or 'eat a sandwich!' or 'cunty bitch is cunty' and not actually spend much time refuting her ridiculous claims.
I'm not saying that there aren't people out there who are actively refuting her claims and not just resorting to ad-hominem but it seems that, unfortunately, what a lot of people react to are real-time interviews on tv and I haven't seen many tv interviewers actually say to someone who's spouting off-based opinions about minorities and anecdotes about things that have been done to people on their 'side' of things "what you're saying is wrong and this is why *bullet point *bullet point *bullet point" with actual facts to back them up.
This is not just about Ann Coulter, a woman I only know of through the internet and who means absolutely nothing to me, but also other people like Pauline Hanson (Australia) and other extreme right-wing shit stirrers who exist in all countries. Unfortunately, Canada, I'm so disappointed and saddened by extreme right-wing-think that I can't bring myself to do enough research to find out who in your country is spouting hateful anti-immigrant, anti-gay, anti-anything that usually falls in with what is usually described as 'left-wing shit', but I know that they're out there, and those of you who think like I do are probably just as disgusted with them as I am with ours (and with theirs, over there and there and there).
That was very long.
posted by h00py at 2:00 AM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
But the thing I've noticed with people like this, particularly in one-on-one interviews, is that they're taking full advantage of the fact that calling them out on what they're saying is really fucking difficult because what they do is all based on anecdotes. She says 'a kid wanted to say god in her valedictorian speech and the microphone was ripped from her hands because government schools are run by liberals' and most people wouldn't be able to come up with proof, on the spot, that this categorically Did Not Happen, so if they say in response 'that sounds like complete bullshit' it's quite possible for her to say 'oh yeah? Well, this happened on July 28, 1997 and blah blah blah further detail etc' and if it's not something that's been reported widely then it's so very much easier for her to assert it than for it to be disproved.
And then that will get taken up by people who believe the same things and bandied around, meanwhile those of us who think that all this talk is utter bullshit find it so much harder to prove that these assertions are wrong because if it didn't happen, where's the proof?
Meanwhile, Ms HateyPants is going on press tours and spouting all kinds of shit, and the people she's talking to who don't agree with her mostly aren't trying to refute the claims but instead are focusing on the fact that the person up there who's being revolting is revolting, and they'll say 'god, she's full of shit' or 'eat a sandwich!' or 'cunty bitch is cunty' and not actually spend much time refuting her ridiculous claims.
I'm not saying that there aren't people out there who are actively refuting her claims and not just resorting to ad-hominem but it seems that, unfortunately, what a lot of people react to are real-time interviews on tv and I haven't seen many tv interviewers actually say to someone who's spouting off-based opinions about minorities and anecdotes about things that have been done to people on their 'side' of things "what you're saying is wrong and this is why *bullet point *bullet point *bullet point" with actual facts to back them up.
This is not just about Ann Coulter, a woman I only know of through the internet and who means absolutely nothing to me, but also other people like Pauline Hanson (Australia) and other extreme right-wing shit stirrers who exist in all countries. Unfortunately, Canada, I'm so disappointed and saddened by extreme right-wing-think that I can't bring myself to do enough research to find out who in your country is spouting hateful anti-immigrant, anti-gay, anti-anything that usually falls in with what is usually described as 'left-wing shit', but I know that they're out there, and those of you who think like I do are probably just as disgusted with them as I am with ours (and with theirs, over there and there and there).
That was very long.
posted by h00py at 2:00 AM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
She's a victim of nothing but her own hate.
posted by Jon-A-Thon at 2:47 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by Jon-A-Thon at 2:47 AM on March 24, 2010
ColdChef: "Google "I want you to wreck this.""
The only hit I got - or did something just go over my head?
Yep.
NevenatinybitSFW
posted by Sebmojo at 3:52 AM on March 24, 2010
The only hit I got - or did something just go over my head?
Yep.
NevenatinybitSFW
posted by Sebmojo at 3:52 AM on March 24, 2010
STOP LOOKING AT HER!!!
Hell, no! If I stop looking at her, she'll be able to move, and then she'll have the police box.
Is that what you want?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:11 AM on March 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
Hell, no! If I stop looking at her, she'll be able to move, and then she'll have the police box.
Is that what you want?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:11 AM on March 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
gompa: Just in case it's not clear to non-Canuckistanis herein, I just wanted to note that Ezra Levant (first link) is our National Douchebag.
This right here. Of the two, Levant triggers my eyeroll reflex well before Coulter, probably because I've had the privilege of witnessing his attention-whoring antics since his days at the U of Alberta almost two decades ago.
Favourite Levant moment: after he'd spent $150,000 in 2002 to secure the Canadian Alliance (later Conservative) nomination for Preston Manning's old seat, poor Ez was tossed aside like a used condom when the party's new leader, a certain Stephen Harper, decided he was going to run in that constituentcy. Of course he couldn't keep his mouth shut and initially refused to stand aside, thereby ruining his chances of ever representing the ReformaTories in parliament. Arsebag.
posted by hangashore at 5:41 AM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
This right here. Of the two, Levant triggers my eyeroll reflex well before Coulter, probably because I've had the privilege of witnessing his attention-whoring antics since his days at the U of Alberta almost two decades ago.
Favourite Levant moment: after he'd spent $150,000 in 2002 to secure the Canadian Alliance (later Conservative) nomination for Preston Manning's old seat, poor Ez was tossed aside like a used condom when the party's new leader, a certain Stephen Harper, decided he was going to run in that constituentcy. Of course he couldn't keep his mouth shut and initially refused to stand aside, thereby ruining his chances of ever representing the ReformaTories in parliament. Arsebag.
posted by hangashore at 5:41 AM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
>Nope, the warning was a very, very bad idea.
How so? Most Canadians couldn't give a shit whether that hateful expletive has a forum for her voice in this country. The worst that happens is that she gets to stir up her American mob a bit. No skin off our ass. She's their problem.
It was a bad idea because if it was genuinely meant as helpful advice, she didn't deserve it and would not heed it under any circumstances. She's a rich rabble-rouser who has a history of saying what she damn well pleases, not a poor innocent afraid that she could accidentally offend someone.
And if the warning was meant as some clever ass-covering meant to protect the university from any black eye from letting her speak there -- well, that was obviously incredibly unsuccessful, wasn't it? She got to lie and distort and play victim before the speech as well as after.
posted by maudlin at 5:57 AM on March 24, 2010
How so? Most Canadians couldn't give a shit whether that hateful expletive has a forum for her voice in this country. The worst that happens is that she gets to stir up her American mob a bit. No skin off our ass. She's their problem.
It was a bad idea because if it was genuinely meant as helpful advice, she didn't deserve it and would not heed it under any circumstances. She's a rich rabble-rouser who has a history of saying what she damn well pleases, not a poor innocent afraid that she could accidentally offend someone.
And if the warning was meant as some clever ass-covering meant to protect the university from any black eye from letting her speak there -- well, that was obviously incredibly unsuccessful, wasn't it? She got to lie and distort and play victim before the speech as well as after.
posted by maudlin at 5:57 AM on March 24, 2010
But good God, guys, your political pundits - especially Coulter and Beck and Palin - seem to have jumped straight from the pages of a Philip K. Dick novel. It's very strange.
Yay! We're exceptional again!
I think this video sums up my point nicely. My point being, of course, WHAT?!
posted by The Whelk at 6:15 AM on March 24, 2010
Yay! We're exceptional again!
I think this video sums up my point nicely. My point being, of course, WHAT?!
posted by The Whelk at 6:15 AM on March 24, 2010
Anyway, without trying to sound like your typical smug and sanctimonious Canadian MeFite, Coulter's brand of harsh, trollish, provocative commentary doesn't really exist in Canada, or if it does, it's pretty low key.
We have Margaret Wente and she bugs me plenty enough.
posted by mazola at 6:35 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
We have Margaret Wente and she bugs me plenty enough.
posted by mazola at 6:35 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Wait a tick.
Let's assume, purely for the sake of argument because I don't believe it for a moment, that the bizarre claims that students were "armed" with rocks and sticks are true. As a result of this threat, Coulter felt unsafe and thus canceled her speech.
Taken out of context this wouldn't seem entirely unreasonable. But there's context here, and I think the context makes Coulter's action seem entirely unreasonable and hypocritical.
In the USA teabaggers are bringing actual loaded firearms to protests. Something which, IIRC, Coulter was quite supportive of. Given her support of crazy right wing people with guns at protests, where does she get off feeling even slightly threatened by hippies with rocks and sticks at a protest?
posted by sotonohito at 6:39 AM on March 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
Let's assume, purely for the sake of argument because I don't believe it for a moment, that the bizarre claims that students were "armed" with rocks and sticks are true. As a result of this threat, Coulter felt unsafe and thus canceled her speech.
Taken out of context this wouldn't seem entirely unreasonable. But there's context here, and I think the context makes Coulter's action seem entirely unreasonable and hypocritical.
In the USA teabaggers are bringing actual loaded firearms to protests. Something which, IIRC, Coulter was quite supportive of. Given her support of crazy right wing people with guns at protests, where does she get off feeling even slightly threatened by hippies with rocks and sticks at a protest?
posted by sotonohito at 6:39 AM on March 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
Fox News is not broadcast in Canada.
Yes. It. Is. It drives me crazy (short drive, obviously) that Canadian mefites are always insisting that Fox News isn't broadcast here. Do none of you have cable?!
posted by zarah at 6:45 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yes. It. Is. It drives me crazy (short drive, obviously) that Canadian mefites are always insisting that Fox News isn't broadcast here. Do none of you have cable?!
posted by zarah at 6:45 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Mod note: few comments removed - outright misogyny still not okay, go to metatalk if you need to
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:55 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:55 AM on March 24, 2010
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. On the way to work this morning, I was listening to the news on the radio, and they were saying it was the police who asked for the event to be cancelled, since they felt the crowd was getting out of control. So I can see there might be some finger-pointing coming about who decided to cancel it.
posted by FishBike at 6:57 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by FishBike at 6:57 AM on March 24, 2010
Coulter is mouthy, incendiary, bothersome and a trouble maker. And a little bit gamey. But realistically, her "hate" speech is pretty small time, and doesn't really incite violence or anything. That said, most of our righties are still left of her.
The way it should have went: Coulter shows up, gives her speech. A few hard-core righties will applause or shout. A few hard-core lefties will likely embarass themselves by yelling and getting ejected, but in a polite manner. At the end, a sycophant or two (or hopeful ass-pounder) will stroke. One or two people will ask idiotic non-sequitor questions that are actually statements. On a good day, someone will call her out on some factual item, or perhaps ask her how far she thinks the government should really go and if it extends to other groups, etc.. The MC thanks her for speaking, we get some polite applause, and everyone goes home; 95% of them wondering why such radicalism gets so much traction.
This would have totally defused her, and the "I'm being oppressed" Christian right. Now they have something to be persecuted about, and it looks like we are intolerant. I bit of polite head-nodding and patronizing and a "thanks, now run along" would have been sooo much better.
posted by Bovine Love at 6:59 AM on March 24, 2010
The way it should have went: Coulter shows up, gives her speech. A few hard-core righties will applause or shout. A few hard-core lefties will likely embarass themselves by yelling and getting ejected, but in a polite manner. At the end, a sycophant or two (or hopeful ass-pounder) will stroke. One or two people will ask idiotic non-sequitor questions that are actually statements. On a good day, someone will call her out on some factual item, or perhaps ask her how far she thinks the government should really go and if it extends to other groups, etc.. The MC thanks her for speaking, we get some polite applause, and everyone goes home; 95% of them wondering why such radicalism gets so much traction.
This would have totally defused her, and the "I'm being oppressed" Christian right. Now they have something to be persecuted about, and it looks like we are intolerant. I bit of polite head-nodding and patronizing and a "thanks, now run along" would have been sooo much better.
posted by Bovine Love at 6:59 AM on March 24, 2010
The American right's drive to assimilate Canada continues apace, and brave Canada resists.
Fade-out with the Maple Leaf flying proudly across Rockies montage.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:21 AM on March 24, 2010
Fade-out with the Maple Leaf flying proudly across Rockies montage.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:21 AM on March 24, 2010
But realistically, her "hate" speech is pretty small time, and doesn't really incite violence or anything.
My impression is that to be convicted under our hate speech laws, the speech has to be quite extreme in its incitement of hatred, though that doesn't limit it to just incitement of violence.
The laws themselves seem to be kind of vaguely worded (and probably necessarily so), so this is more a case of, in practical terms, what do people actually get convicted for?
I haven't had much luck finding a clear list of past convictions to see if my impression is actually correct, though. But from what I did find, it seems like merely saying something stupid or offensive isn't sufficient. In which case, the warning letter seems unnecessary, and Coulter probably had nothing to worry about either.
posted by FishBike at 7:39 AM on March 24, 2010
My impression is that to be convicted under our hate speech laws, the speech has to be quite extreme in its incitement of hatred, though that doesn't limit it to just incitement of violence.
The laws themselves seem to be kind of vaguely worded (and probably necessarily so), so this is more a case of, in practical terms, what do people actually get convicted for?
I haven't had much luck finding a clear list of past convictions to see if my impression is actually correct, though. But from what I did find, it seems like merely saying something stupid or offensive isn't sufficient. In which case, the warning letter seems unnecessary, and Coulter probably had nothing to worry about either.
posted by FishBike at 7:39 AM on March 24, 2010
I just cannot believe the line about rocks and sticks. I can't see where you'd even find a supply of such things in Sandy Hill.
Maybe it was hockey gear, and the american reporter just didn't know what to call it =p
posted by nomisxid at 8:03 AM on March 24, 2010
Maybe it was hockey gear, and the american reporter just didn't know what to call it =p
posted by nomisxid at 8:03 AM on March 24, 2010
Several years ago AC came to town. the local wingers rented a big theater and promoted the heck out of it. the progressives picketed in their usual subdued way. Nobody came. One winger lost it, punched out a picket and got arrested. AC played to an empty house and the local wingers were out somewhere's upwards of $20K. AC pocketed her money and moved on. the wingers were very subdued for about a year and then back to their usual assholery.
I suspect this is actually the norm for her nowadays. trimming the suckers and moving on to the next batch of rubes. Of course, that wouldn't make the news.
posted by warbaby at 8:07 AM on March 24, 2010
I suspect this is actually the norm for her nowadays. trimming the suckers and moving on to the next batch of rubes. Of course, that wouldn't make the news.
posted by warbaby at 8:07 AM on March 24, 2010
This would have totally defused her, and the "I'm being oppressed" Christian right. Now they have something to be persecuted about, and it looks like we are intolerant.
I'm not sure these people get "defused". They're in power here now, and had the better part of a decade down south, and still claim they're persecuted and oppressed. The only things oppressing them and muzzling their views are reality, experience, and reason.
posted by Kirk Grim at 8:09 AM on March 24, 2010
I'm not sure these people get "defused". They're in power here now, and had the better part of a decade down south, and still claim they're persecuted and oppressed. The only things oppressing them and muzzling their views are reality, experience, and reason.
posted by Kirk Grim at 8:09 AM on March 24, 2010
What an asshat:
"Coulter herself is hardly turning the other cheek. Talking again to the Ottowa Citizen, she says in an interview that she 'never get[s] any trouble at the Ivy League schools. It's always the bush-league schools.' Her point is pretty clear: 'The University of Ottawa is really easy to get into, isn't it?' she asks."posted by ericb at 8:12 AM on March 24, 2010
Canadian speakers should be protesting against people crossing the border to take their jerbs.
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 8:15 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 8:15 AM on March 24, 2010
Yes. It. Is. It drives me crazy (short drive, obviously) that Canadian mefites are always insisting that Fox News isn't broadcast here. Do none of you have cable?!
The top-tier cable news package? No.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:17 AM on March 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
The top-tier cable news package? No.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:17 AM on March 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
Professional troll indeed.
posted by ericb at 8:17 AM on March 24, 2010
"'I would like to know if any Muslim has been treated this badly, at least since the Reformation, because I am drawing a blank,' Ms. Coulter told The Globe.Eh. Where's a hockey stick when you really need one? And I'm not even Canadian!
She also took a swipe at Canadians, saying this country has lost its edge.
You guys used to be so cool. You were smokers. You had epic hockey fights. We had half our comedians from Canada. Now you’re all a bunch of girls named Francois.'"
posted by ericb at 8:17 AM on March 24, 2010
"You had epic hockey fights."
I would love to watch a debate between Ann Coulter and Don Cherry.
posted by FishBike at 8:21 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
I would love to watch a debate between Ann Coulter and Don Cherry.
posted by FishBike at 8:21 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
"Now you’re all a bunch of girls named Francois.'"
Meh. Considering how polite and measured Francois Houle's email was, I'm okay with that.
But we haven't lost our edge. Not wanting to deal with a vile, hate spewing individuals is what gives us our edge, thank you very much. At least in my opinion.
posted by aclevername at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2010
Meh. Considering how polite and measured Francois Houle's email was, I'm okay with that.
But we haven't lost our edge. Not wanting to deal with a vile, hate spewing individuals is what gives us our edge, thank you very much. At least in my opinion.
posted by aclevername at 8:24 AM on March 24, 2010
But realistically, her "hate" speech is pretty small time
I'm not going to post a long list of her greatest hits or anything, but just as an example, in the articles linked they discuss how she's stated that Muslims shouldn't be allowed on planes, and should instead take magic carpets or camels. That is explicitly suggesting systematic discrimination against an identifiable group, while throwing in insults for good measure.
posted by Kirk Grim at 8:25 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm not going to post a long list of her greatest hits or anything, but just as an example, in the articles linked they discuss how she's stated that Muslims shouldn't be allowed on planes, and should instead take magic carpets or camels. That is explicitly suggesting systematic discrimination against an identifiable group, while throwing in insults for good measure.
posted by Kirk Grim at 8:25 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Sure, you have the right to say "bomb them and kill their leaders and convert them to christianity", and sure you can have a contest to see who can draw funny pictures of Mohammed as a terrorist. I happen to think it's an asshole thing to do, but that's your perogative. But free speech does not mean I need to have your back when all the people you slandered and deliberately pissed off "just because" catch up with you. It means the cops show up if things get out of hand.
Seems to me the Candian Civil Liberties Association went through this twenty years ago with Holocaust-denier Ernst Zundel a couple of decades ago -- the essence of their position was that while everyone is obliged to allow others free speech, even (ansd especially) for what is distasteful, no one is obliged to promote it. Coulter should have felt free to go a few blocks north to join the other buskers in the Byward Market and give her speech there. She probably would have more luck if she played some Neil Young songs on the guitar or juggled machetes, but I guess that is the invisible hand of the market, innit?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:26 AM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
I would love to watch a debate between Ann Coulter and Don Cherry.
Who could stand against the power of his wardrobe?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:46 AM on March 24, 2010
Who could stand against the power of his wardrobe?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:46 AM on March 24, 2010
There weren't really supposed to be tickets. If you had a student card or had registered ahead of time, you would get in free.
And this puzzles me... given the strong opposition to her on campus it seems to me the far more effective protest would have been for the students opposed to her to pack the hall for her speech and then stare at her without any reaction for the entire time. If I recall correctly, during the late-90s tenure of a conservative government in Ontario, Education Minister John Snobelen made a lengthy address to a theatre packed with teachers who sat in unnerving silence for the speech and let him orate to the sound of occasional coughs and shuffled feet. He eventually concluded and left the stage in silence. Even if a trickle of Coulter supporters had arrived, she would be rattled to walk out to the sound of eighteen people applauding.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:47 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
And this puzzles me... given the strong opposition to her on campus it seems to me the far more effective protest would have been for the students opposed to her to pack the hall for her speech and then stare at her without any reaction for the entire time. If I recall correctly, during the late-90s tenure of a conservative government in Ontario, Education Minister John Snobelen made a lengthy address to a theatre packed with teachers who sat in unnerving silence for the speech and let him orate to the sound of occasional coughs and shuffled feet. He eventually concluded and left the stage in silence. Even if a trickle of Coulter supporters had arrived, she would be rattled to walk out to the sound of eighteen people applauding.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:47 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
"You guys used to be so cool. You were smokers. You had epic hockey fights. We had half our comedians from Canada. Now you’re all a bunch of girls named Francois.'"
Wait, what? She basically fled an engagement because she claims people where going to use sticks and stones to threaten her safety but the next breath is uttering emasculation taunts.
Christ what an asshole.
posted by edgeways at 8:48 AM on March 24, 2010
Wait, what? She basically fled an engagement because she claims people where going to use sticks and stones to threaten her safety but the next breath is uttering emasculation taunts.
Christ what an asshole.
posted by edgeways at 8:48 AM on March 24, 2010
krinklyfig : Yeah, I don't think she really believes most of what she says
I've been playing a game for a while now, were I try and figure out who, among the right wing pundits, are just trolls who don't really believe half of the crap they are saying, and are just doing it for the money/ fame, and those that are crackpots who are deeply "true-believers" that the left is totally comprised of commie-fascists out to murder their religions or whatever.
Right now my list looks like this:
Michelle Malkin: Crackpot
Ann Coulter: Troll
Rush Limbaugh: Troll
Bill O'Reilly: Tough one, I think he might actually be both.
Glenn Beck: Crackpot of the first order.
posted by quin at 9:21 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
I've been playing a game for a while now, were I try and figure out who, among the right wing pundits, are just trolls who don't really believe half of the crap they are saying, and are just doing it for the money/ fame, and those that are crackpots who are deeply "true-believers" that the left is totally comprised of commie-fascists out to murder their religions or whatever.
Right now my list looks like this:
Michelle Malkin: Crackpot
Ann Coulter: Troll
Rush Limbaugh: Troll
Bill O'Reilly: Tough one, I think he might actually be both.
Glenn Beck: Crackpot of the first order.
posted by quin at 9:21 AM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Judging by the Canadian Press's video, it looks like Ezra Levant led his own miniature Brooks Brothers Holt Renfrew Riot after the speech got canceled.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 9:24 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 9:24 AM on March 24, 2010
and... even more unbelievable.... the Canadians let her over the border...
I just hope you aren't smart enough to seal the border while she's here. We'll smuggle her back in the next shipment of softwood lumber if we have to.
posted by ServSci at 9:25 AM on March 24, 2010
I just hope you aren't smart enough to seal the border while she's here. We'll smuggle her back in the next shipment of softwood lumber if we have to.
posted by ServSci at 9:25 AM on March 24, 2010
As my friends mother would say "Such beautiful blond hair, shame she dyes her roots black."
posted by pianomover at 9:30 AM on March 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by pianomover at 9:30 AM on March 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
"You guys used to be so cool. You were smokers. You had epic hockey fights. We had half our comedians from Canada. Now you’re all a bunch of girls named Francois.'"
Yeah, because nothing says independence, coolness, and manly macho like becoming addicted to a product that costs a fortune and makes you sick.
WTF?
posted by sotonohito at 9:32 AM on March 24, 2010
Yeah, because nothing says independence, coolness, and manly macho like becoming addicted to a product that costs a fortune and makes you sick.
WTF?
posted by sotonohito at 9:32 AM on March 24, 2010
WTF?
To be fair, it's true that Canadians did used to smoke in greater numbers, fighting remains quite common in pro hockey, and there are a lot of Canadian comedians working in Hollywood. There might even be a poor wretch or two named Francois, though presumably most French Canadian parents would know to use the proper feminine spelling Francoise for their bunches of girls. At any rate, this is actually well down into the third or fourth tier of Ann Coulter inexplicability - far, far below the whole all-terrorists-are-Muslims thing.
Note to would-be student protesters: If you deny Ann Coulter a forum, you give Ezra Levant a national megaphone through which to deliver his persecuted-conservative the-thought-police-are-after-me schtick. He was on CBC Radio's national news this morning doing just this. The self-martyrdom of Ezra - a ceaselessly opportunistic windbag so plug-dumb and venomous not even Stephen Harper's Conservatives would have him - is infinitely more poisonous to the national fabric than anything Coulter could tell her shrinking cadre of hateful dimbulb fellow travelers. Coulter is not worth the energy of a protest, and the net result is wholly to the negative for the greater progressive cause in Canada.
Just ignore it. Have a sit-in for lower tuition or something instead. Please.
posted by gompa at 10:11 AM on March 24, 2010 [8 favorites]
To be fair, it's true that Canadians did used to smoke in greater numbers, fighting remains quite common in pro hockey, and there are a lot of Canadian comedians working in Hollywood. There might even be a poor wretch or two named Francois, though presumably most French Canadian parents would know to use the proper feminine spelling Francoise for their bunches of girls. At any rate, this is actually well down into the third or fourth tier of Ann Coulter inexplicability - far, far below the whole all-terrorists-are-Muslims thing.
Note to would-be student protesters: If you deny Ann Coulter a forum, you give Ezra Levant a national megaphone through which to deliver his persecuted-conservative the-thought-police-are-after-me schtick. He was on CBC Radio's national news this morning doing just this. The self-martyrdom of Ezra - a ceaselessly opportunistic windbag so plug-dumb and venomous not even Stephen Harper's Conservatives would have him - is infinitely more poisonous to the national fabric than anything Coulter could tell her shrinking cadre of hateful dimbulb fellow travelers. Coulter is not worth the energy of a protest, and the net result is wholly to the negative for the greater progressive cause in Canada.
Just ignore it. Have a sit-in for lower tuition or something instead. Please.
posted by gompa at 10:11 AM on March 24, 2010 [8 favorites]
Unfortunately gompa, the Student Federation of the University of Ottawa (SFUO) can't be appeased by lower-tuition-fees protests alone. They have a reputation for spending student money on partisan issues (like the Ontario electoral reform referendum) claiming their stance on whatever issue is clearly the united "voice" of uOttawa students.
/bitter uOttawa graduate
posted by Menomena at 10:37 AM on March 24, 2010
/bitter uOttawa graduate
posted by Menomena at 10:37 AM on March 24, 2010
She also took a swipe at Canadians, saying this country has lost its edge.
If I ever have the luck of running into her, I will show her just how much edge Canadians can have. I would willingly take my time in prison in exchange for leaving her as a bloody spot on the sidewalk. The woman has no morals, no respect, and deserves to have her head rocked hard enough to readjust her attitude or leave her incapable of spouting anything except her own dribbling drool ever again.
Sure, this may be hateful speech, but she's all for that, right?
posted by splice at 10:38 AM on March 24, 2010
If I ever have the luck of running into her, I will show her just how much edge Canadians can have. I would willingly take my time in prison in exchange for leaving her as a bloody spot on the sidewalk. The woman has no morals, no respect, and deserves to have her head rocked hard enough to readjust her attitude or leave her incapable of spouting anything except her own dribbling drool ever again.
Sure, this may be hateful speech, but she's all for that, right?
posted by splice at 10:38 AM on March 24, 2010
I want to go to an Ann Coulter speech and applaud loudly. I want to start a standing ovation. And I never want to stop clapping and cheering.
First wildly, then enthusiastically, then determinedly, then grimly. Never stopping.
Not until her entire time has run out and she is forced to walk off the stage having waited for me and mine, or tried to talk through us.
You wanna be rude? Well awrite, lemme show you RUDE up heah in Canadah!
posted by Imperfect at 11:08 AM on March 24, 2010
First wildly, then enthusiastically, then determinedly, then grimly. Never stopping.
Not until her entire time has run out and she is forced to walk off the stage having waited for me and mine, or tried to talk through us.
You wanna be rude? Well awrite, lemme show you RUDE up heah in Canadah!
posted by Imperfect at 11:08 AM on March 24, 2010
SHE COMES.
posted by TimeTravelSpeed at 11:27 AM on March 24, 2010
posted by TimeTravelSpeed at 11:27 AM on March 24, 2010
So one of the models for what the Tea Party was based on comes to Canada, and claims persecution, just like she always does in her own country... then makes hay out of her own trumped up claims that "liberal loons" (that's what she calls non Republicans EVERY DAY on her news network), "want" to "kill" her... (I have also heard her claim this multiple times about her home country, with nothing really to back it up, besides people saying she shouldn't have an unlimited soap box on a tv network viewed by millions.)
How is this different from any other day with her (besides her having "hopped right there ovr the border"... I hope she got some health care while there at least.)
...and then here's the kicker... normal Canadians then get mad at people for protesting her too vehemently (even making assumptions about who did what, and what their motivations were, and what associations they might have)!
See, I think there is a problem with the media coverage; she got to say what she was saying... and then in the newspapers as well... again and again; I would ask... how many people do you think peacefully and with love "say" things that are "opposite" to what she says?
How many of them got front pages of papers?
The Universities were TOTALLY not "threatening her"... they were very mildly and politely reminding her (or her press people) that "Canada has different laws"...This story seems be being sold as one of the all too common themes of "the university bastion of ivory towers blocked and banned a true patriot motivational speaker, and then the "evil human rights regime" came in and stomped her free speech into the ground, while banning smoking, sex, and all meat protein from all of the state run grocery stores"
-Since some people may not be aware of how laws are created in Canada I will now describe the process, in Canada, since the 1999 rounding up of everyone who holds, has held, or may potentially one day hold conservative sympathies, Laws are first created, drafted, debated, and passed into binding Legislation by the Universities! mostly by SCIENTISTS! and people who love DARWIN! and teach EVOLUTION!
This story is being sold in a fact free way. What must reality be like for people who follow people like her EVERY DAY. I can physically feel the cognitive dissonance from just thinking about her one day out of the year... how much must it change people to actually listen to her ideas on a daily basis, and incorporate her into their worldview. :( Sounds bad for the health.
posted by infinite intimation at 12:17 PM on March 24, 2010
How is this different from any other day with her (besides her having "hopped right there ovr the border"... I hope she got some health care while there at least.)
...and then here's the kicker... normal Canadians then get mad at people for protesting her too vehemently (even making assumptions about who did what, and what their motivations were, and what associations they might have)!
See, I think there is a problem with the media coverage; she got to say what she was saying... and then in the newspapers as well... again and again; I would ask... how many people do you think peacefully and with love "say" things that are "opposite" to what she says?
How many of them got front pages of papers?
The Universities were TOTALLY not "threatening her"... they were very mildly and politely reminding her (or her press people) that "Canada has different laws"...This story seems be being sold as one of the all too common themes of "the university bastion of ivory towers blocked and banned a true patriot motivational speaker, and then the "evil human rights regime" came in and stomped her free speech into the ground, while banning smoking, sex, and all meat protein from all of the state run grocery stores"
-Since some people may not be aware of how laws are created in Canada I will now describe the process, in Canada, since the 1999 rounding up of everyone who holds, has held, or may potentially one day hold conservative sympathies, Laws are first created, drafted, debated, and passed into binding Legislation by the Universities! mostly by SCIENTISTS! and people who love DARWIN! and teach EVOLUTION!
This story is being sold in a fact free way. What must reality be like for people who follow people like her EVERY DAY. I can physically feel the cognitive dissonance from just thinking about her one day out of the year... how much must it change people to actually listen to her ideas on a daily basis, and incorporate her into their worldview. :( Sounds bad for the health.
posted by infinite intimation at 12:17 PM on March 24, 2010
infinite intimation -
that's exactly right. In general terms, most people I know would laugh off as ridiculous and ignorant the type of thing she says if it were overheard coming from a colleague or acquaintance. I think people object and protest less because of what she says, and more because of the effect it might have on an audience that doesn't take the time to check the truth of her statements. She's given a soapbox which lends her some credibility in some circles--she's on news channels and speaks at universities. For some people that is enough reason to give her the benefit of the doubt. Some people may even agree with her. What that does is make rational political discourse impossible, because you're now trying to reach a mutually acceptable solution with someone who lives in fantasy land and has demonstrably false talking points, and thinks you're a secret french muslim sleeper agent communist. And it's exactly why, as Gompa said, she should just be ignored. As long as she generates attention and controversy, she'll continue to get media coverage. $$$$$. She and her ilk have managed to take the concept of free speech and used it to actively undermine itself.
posted by Kirk Grim at 12:56 PM on March 24, 2010
that's exactly right. In general terms, most people I know would laugh off as ridiculous and ignorant the type of thing she says if it were overheard coming from a colleague or acquaintance. I think people object and protest less because of what she says, and more because of the effect it might have on an audience that doesn't take the time to check the truth of her statements. She's given a soapbox which lends her some credibility in some circles--she's on news channels and speaks at universities. For some people that is enough reason to give her the benefit of the doubt. Some people may even agree with her. What that does is make rational political discourse impossible, because you're now trying to reach a mutually acceptable solution with someone who lives in fantasy land and has demonstrably false talking points, and thinks you're a secret french muslim sleeper agent communist. And it's exactly why, as Gompa said, she should just be ignored. As long as she generates attention and controversy, she'll continue to get media coverage. $$$$$. She and her ilk have managed to take the concept of free speech and used it to actively undermine itself.
posted by Kirk Grim at 12:56 PM on March 24, 2010
I know it's played out, but so help me I've been giggling for 5 minutes:
Metafilter: A crazy bunch of blond-tipped wheat crackers.
posted by Space Kitty at 1:34 PM on March 24, 2010
Metafilter: A crazy bunch of blond-tipped wheat crackers.
posted by Space Kitty at 1:34 PM on March 24, 2010
I don't think her media coverage counts for shit up here. Canucks are hostile to angry Americans, and she is the quintessential angry American.
If anything, she has likely pissed off many more Canadians than she has won to her side.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:05 PM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
If anything, she has likely pissed off many more Canadians than she has won to her side.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:05 PM on March 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
The whole thing seems to be one massive media grab by and for Ezra Levant, who organized the thing (seemingly badly), and then canceled the thing (because of a pulled fire alarm? Because of supposed threats on FB pages?) only to claim that the cancellation was a violation of Coulter's human rights, allowing him a lovely public forum to grandstand while bringing suit.
Given the choice of believing Levant and Coulter, on the one hand, and the Ottawa cops and the CBC and Globe journalists who cover the capital on the other -- I'll take the cops and the journalists.
The whole damn thing sounds like a gong show.
posted by jrochest at 2:34 PM on March 24, 2010
Given the choice of believing Levant and Coulter, on the one hand, and the Ottawa cops and the CBC and Globe journalists who cover the capital on the other -- I'll take the cops and the journalists.
The whole damn thing sounds like a gong show.
posted by jrochest at 2:34 PM on March 24, 2010
Oh this is funny because once I has sex with Ann Coulter in Canada.
posted by fuq at 2:44 PM on March 24, 2010
posted by fuq at 2:44 PM on March 24, 2010
allowing him a lovely public forum to grandstand while bringing suit.
Given what I was told about Ezra's recent talk in Toronto by a knowledgable, trustworthy source, he's just as bad as Coulter for "misinforming" his audiences when he can count on them not to know any better. Let his photo be the entry for "douche" in the Canadian edition of the dictionary, please.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:23 PM on March 24, 2010
Given what I was told about Ezra's recent talk in Toronto by a knowledgable, trustworthy source, he's just as bad as Coulter for "misinforming" his audiences when he can count on them not to know any better. Let his photo be the entry for "douche" in the Canadian edition of the dictionary, please.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:23 PM on March 24, 2010
I go to uOttawa. Heya everybody, and especially battlebison!
A good source for this is the twitter account @emmagodmere. She's the editor of the anglophone student newspaper (The Fulcrum). Her reporter (and other sources) told her 200 protestors, with about 2000 students (and non-protestors) trying to get into the auditorium itself. To put that into perspective, uOttawa has 30 000 students, and Carleton has a decent amount.
I know one girl who was inside the auditorium and is fucking PISSED that she had to be evacuated and believes the reports of violence, even though she admits to seeing none; I know one guy who was in the crowd and says that the reason Coulter and the audience exited via the back of Marion wasn't because there was a threat from the crowd, but because the hallways were so full it of students that it was physically impossible to leave via the front. He also didn't hear anything about any violence when he was there. I have not heard anything about sticks and rocks until this thread, and I was reading the news VOCIFEROUSLY.
A brief summary of the pile of BS that is this current administration of the SFUO (Student Fed of uOttawa), and how they directly contributed to this clusterfuck:
Preface: the SFUO, under Seamus Wolfe, is particularly ridiculous. I am a dyed-red liberal hippie, and Seamus' brand of liberalism manages to piss me off constantly. He mismanages everything he touches (online elections, relations with student clubs and faculty federations, SFUO businesses, this), and is mainly good at subverting election rules and getting arrested while professing a wide-eyed innocence. I've been involved in student politics enough to know that I Do Not Like Him, so feel free to keep that bias of mine into account.
1) Houle (uOttawa admin/academic provost, not SFUO) sent ill-advised but still relatively harmless e-mail to Coulter.
2) the SFUO, which controls which posters go up in the Jock Turcot Uni Center, decides that the Coulter posters are promoting hate speech. They refuse to stamp the posters (stamping = permission to hang) and tear down any posters that aren't stamped, which they do anyways for any unstamped poster. It's not like they were tearing down Coulter posters for kicks; they were following standard procedure for non-approved posters.
3) Shitstorm breaks out, in part because many (but not all) people are mentally relating the Coulter poster decision from the SFUO to the Israeli Apartheid poster controversy from last year (in which some students were offended by IAW posters showing an Israeli helicopter deliberately shooting down a Palestinian child holding a teddybear) as they felt it was incredibly offensive. Most of these students were fine with keeping up other, plainer IAW posters as they weren't being deliberately provocative. (The IAW posters with the helicopter were so bad that they made some students cry at how it felt like an attack on their identity). Seamus Wolfe supported keeping up the IAW posters because of freedom of speech; this year he ordered the Coulter posters torn down. To be fair: some people are offended by the decision because they're just pissed at the SFUO in general. I sympathize.
4) Tensions grow as news of the "camel" comment spreads through the campus.
5) Legions of students descend on Coulter lecture. Levant cites security concerns, shuts down lecture. See above.
Me? I was at Henry Rollins. The first 10 minutes was him talking about how he was happy that people came to him instead of Coulter. It was pretty funny, and then he got to his tried-and-true material and was hilarious. One thing he mentioned about Coulter: when in doubt, she calls people stupid.
I get home from Rollins and find out that Coulter was cancelled, and that, surprise, she called uOttawa students stupid. Thanks Coulter, you're consistent!
posted by flibbertigibbet at 4:07 PM on March 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
A good source for this is the twitter account @emmagodmere. She's the editor of the anglophone student newspaper (The Fulcrum). Her reporter (and other sources) told her 200 protestors, with about 2000 students (and non-protestors) trying to get into the auditorium itself. To put that into perspective, uOttawa has 30 000 students, and Carleton has a decent amount.
I know one girl who was inside the auditorium and is fucking PISSED that she had to be evacuated and believes the reports of violence, even though she admits to seeing none; I know one guy who was in the crowd and says that the reason Coulter and the audience exited via the back of Marion wasn't because there was a threat from the crowd, but because the hallways were so full it of students that it was physically impossible to leave via the front. He also didn't hear anything about any violence when he was there. I have not heard anything about sticks and rocks until this thread, and I was reading the news VOCIFEROUSLY.
A brief summary of the pile of BS that is this current administration of the SFUO (Student Fed of uOttawa), and how they directly contributed to this clusterfuck:
Preface: the SFUO, under Seamus Wolfe, is particularly ridiculous. I am a dyed-red liberal hippie, and Seamus' brand of liberalism manages to piss me off constantly. He mismanages everything he touches (online elections, relations with student clubs and faculty federations, SFUO businesses, this), and is mainly good at subverting election rules and getting arrested while professing a wide-eyed innocence. I've been involved in student politics enough to know that I Do Not Like Him, so feel free to keep that bias of mine into account.
1) Houle (uOttawa admin/academic provost, not SFUO) sent ill-advised but still relatively harmless e-mail to Coulter.
2) the SFUO, which controls which posters go up in the Jock Turcot Uni Center, decides that the Coulter posters are promoting hate speech. They refuse to stamp the posters (stamping = permission to hang) and tear down any posters that aren't stamped, which they do anyways for any unstamped poster. It's not like they were tearing down Coulter posters for kicks; they were following standard procedure for non-approved posters.
3) Shitstorm breaks out, in part because many (but not all) people are mentally relating the Coulter poster decision from the SFUO to the Israeli Apartheid poster controversy from last year (in which some students were offended by IAW posters showing an Israeli helicopter deliberately shooting down a Palestinian child holding a teddybear) as they felt it was incredibly offensive. Most of these students were fine with keeping up other, plainer IAW posters as they weren't being deliberately provocative. (The IAW posters with the helicopter were so bad that they made some students cry at how it felt like an attack on their identity). Seamus Wolfe supported keeping up the IAW posters because of freedom of speech; this year he ordered the Coulter posters torn down. To be fair: some people are offended by the decision because they're just pissed at the SFUO in general. I sympathize.
4) Tensions grow as news of the "camel" comment spreads through the campus.
5) Legions of students descend on Coulter lecture. Levant cites security concerns, shuts down lecture. See above.
Me? I was at Henry Rollins. The first 10 minutes was him talking about how he was happy that people came to him instead of Coulter. It was pretty funny, and then he got to his tried-and-true material and was hilarious. One thing he mentioned about Coulter: when in doubt, she calls people stupid.
I get home from Rollins and find out that Coulter was cancelled, and that, surprise, she called uOttawa students stupid. Thanks Coulter, you're consistent!
posted by flibbertigibbet at 4:07 PM on March 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
I know it's old, but my dad just sent me the Perfected Jew clip.
posted by gman at 4:08 PM on March 24, 2010
posted by gman at 4:08 PM on March 24, 2010
Note: Ed Anger brought Ann Coulter to Canada, sort of. I am not making this up.
Coulter did not invite herself to Canada. The Canadian Universities did not invite her.
Her tour is being organized by the International Free Press Society, a group whose website presents Islam as the pre-eminent threat to democracy and free speech across the western world.
“This jihad, like all jihads before it, will continue until a sharia-based caliphate rules the world, or until it is defeated,” the society's policy statement says.
Among its board of advisers are conservative bloggers Ezra Levant and Kathy Shaidle, polemicist Mark Steyn and far-right Dutch political leader Geert Wilders.
Kathy Shaidle writes the Ed Anger column for The Weekly World News Online.
posted by ovvl at 4:30 PM on March 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
Coulter did not invite herself to Canada. The Canadian Universities did not invite her.
Her tour is being organized by the International Free Press Society, a group whose website presents Islam as the pre-eminent threat to democracy and free speech across the western world.
“This jihad, like all jihads before it, will continue until a sharia-based caliphate rules the world, or until it is defeated,” the society's policy statement says.
Among its board of advisers are conservative bloggers Ezra Levant and Kathy Shaidle, polemicist Mark Steyn and far-right Dutch political leader Geert Wilders.
Kathy Shaidle writes the Ed Anger column for The Weekly World News Online.
posted by ovvl at 4:30 PM on March 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
"There is a strong tradition in Canada, including at this university, of restraint, respect and consideration in expressing even provocative and controversial opinions and urge you to respect that Canadian tradition while on our campus."
Taking grievances, both spurious and legitimate, to the Human Rights Commission, is a Canadian tradition.
posted by ovvl at 4:51 PM on March 24, 2010
Taking grievances, both spurious and legitimate, to the Human Rights Commission, is a Canadian tradition.
posted by ovvl at 4:51 PM on March 24, 2010
University Presidents making clumsy decisions in the face of controversy is also a Canadian tradition.
posted by ovvl at 5:26 PM on March 24, 2010
posted by ovvl at 5:26 PM on March 24, 2010
Threatened by sticks and rocks.
What sticks? What rocks?
Bullies are Cowards.
posted by ovvl at 5:32 PM on March 24, 2010
What sticks? What rocks?
Bullies are Cowards.
posted by ovvl at 5:32 PM on March 24, 2010
That is my favourite bad joke and all the more so because I first read it in a John le Carre novel.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:13 PM on March 24, 2010
posted by five fresh fish at 7:13 PM on March 24, 2010
ovvl... not to excuse everyone, but is there seriously a "right" thing for someone who isn't all knowing to have done in "this" situation?
Seems like no matter what happened here Ms. Coulter would have gotten to use her freely provided multiple soapboxes to tilt at liberals... University students are good at getting mad... I really don't think there is something that could have been done altogether differently... unless you can "control" a crowd, and have them be obedient... without the officials being at all violent, or using any tazers or other weapons... because that sure would have been a national issue to use those on students protesting a liar.
Logically, there just is not any easy way this could have been "solved"... she came to Canada to "raise" that very issue in the most possible contentious way, she then did so, and people were upset, aka not having it... because Canadians don't let people toss bigot like lies on them, and get away with it. She came to Canada to be a provocative issue raiser... do we not think that she had some idea of what she was going to do, and how she would spin it... she is not an amateur troll... she is pro. (for the issue of taking posters down... would you feel ok with extremely graphic pictures of babies after abortions... and those getting to go up in places like near the campus Women's center? I personally would think that, like some of the other examples from the past, there are times when yeah, it's ok to protect people by taking a poster down. But I guess I am, always have been, or could one-day become a supporter of fake-fascists... so eh, whattayahgonnado?)
It's this "whoooooo ME?" after the fact bit that always bugs me when people go "freespeechfreespeech is the only thing that matters"... because they then ALSO think they get to turn around when someone goes and writes back at them with strong words or invokes civil or Charter law, or worst case scenario... When a person loses the part that used to be a person, and chooses to use violence. The continuous taunts, and hatred, and incitement of hatred, will eventually leave some individual thinking to themself "you KEEP HATING MY PEOPLE... "WE" DID NOTHING TO YOU..Please STOP. and then the "freespeecher" goes on, and on, and eventually the person they taunt, and slime, and label, and spew hatred onto everyday turns around... and does something radical... then the "freespeecher" every time goes... "SEE I TOLD YOU EVERYONE WHO lookslike/soundslike/worshipslike/thinkslike/sexeslike THAT PERSON IS EVILorRADICALorVIOLENTorEXTREMEIST."
To put it another way, if "I" feel afraid of the hatred inspired by "your" crazy rhetoric to a group, that impedes my individual Human "right to speak freely". (more so than civilly and politely trying to quench hate speech.) And when some people never get to participate, or be public because of hatred by large groups... they won't have means to participate, and this historically has made those oppressed people to move to radicalism, or violence. (FTR, not justifying anything; I want those ways of "expressing" ended... see, I want to see solutions to violence come from civil politics... I want everyone to feel 'allowed' to enter the public space where we all may speak without hatred being lobbed at us before we have even been INTRODUCED to each other in person. If Coulter were coming in good faith, to try to talk to and with Muslims, or Homosexual people or anyone else she inspires hatred against... good on her, and people will listen to her. However, if she comes to spew rhetoric and repeat long debunked weird claims... I hope the law will protect the citizens of Canada of are facing her hatred, and the "heck yea's" it does inspire..
Something in this CBC news piece smells... actually, a lot of it does.
This is good news gompa, I hadn't heard of him, was wondering who he was, I had just noticed the "Ezra Levant" link with Secritfootage, where he really thinks free speech means something that it hasn't for DECADES in Canada. All signs point that the shift is massively beneficial... but he is acting like it is a slippery slide. (Then there's his berating the HRC TESTIMONY taker... I hope he feels reeeeeeaaaaalllllllll good about himself. It's dishonest footage, and frankly pretty ugly. I wonder if he would stand up to a male authority figure that way? She is a person who takes the testimony of people, a civil servant who listens to people, and records the story.. she did not dictate to the nation the idea of assuaging violent hatred before it rises to the level of physical or socio-cultural violence by the "ism's" that run around in all cultures across the globe...)
The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is pretty firmly un-assailable...(try here for a primer on some of the things that have changed due to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and here for news on new/developing cases.). I noticed the other day someone linked to the wikipedia on "controversy surrounding over application of the Charter something with something versus freespeech in Canada." Needless to say, that would definitely be firmly in the [citation needed] column, in my opinion. The Charter application in Canada is pretty hard to find faults with, when examined, even handed to a T. (neither legislating from the bench, nor doing nothing... when things need doing they are the "prod" which pushes the otherwise panic-y, flighty birds which are politicians into making change real.)
Further, it was fully agreed upon by Nexttoallofeverybody in the country - It is "enshrined" IN Canada's documents of inception. (The nations Birth Certificate if you will. Mr. Levant, Ms. Taitz). Mr. Levant should stop continually acting so shocked. The country exists in its current form not by 800 years of British law as he breathlessly claims... or would taking slaves suddenly be fine because... well, that was o.k in Britain 430 years ago.. and shirley the Law of the Land isn't allowed to change over time... as we make 'progress' as Humans. And lastly if there is seriously a law that is 'needed' but is for some weird reason banned by the Charter... there is the Notwithstanding Clause ("notwithstanding the charter...." which makes something law for five years, when it will then be reviewed, and either dumped or re-upped.)
When I think of what seems to 'make' Canada... that you can find any kind of person there, across such a diverse landscape and ecology wise... and despite some hold outs... in so very many cases, people are very compassionate, and aware, accepting and appreciative of the differences which surely fuel the nations growth and entrepreneurial and community spirit.. not only aware or simple "tolerance" based (a word that goes half-measure to a truly better future if ever something did that). But no, we do not see simply "tolerance of differences" what is seen, amidst such diversity of situation, and diversity of background, the Charter brings those differences out (not only in workplaces, but also in communities), so people can feel safe and proud and justified- not fearful of bricks through their windows in taking public roles both on a community scale, and on a national scale. (I think of it this way, instead of a tea party, with racists, you might see something like... "the Green Party." (they worry about environmental issues, not the drug.harhar) a party with a leader who has written books, is a public intellectual, she wrote a great book called clear cut logic or something similar, either way, Elizabeth May, and it was a great book.
She is like the Sarah Palin of people who want a better tomorrow, rather than a more angry tomorrow. I'd trade the "tea party rally movement ad hoc no goals one message;hands off our medicare, no socialized medicine movement group party thing" for the Canadian green party in a second. Anyone think that could happen? wanna send them south? (oh yeah, (to Americans who are turning pale, as the question of wondering if that is how the invasion happens... as they are Canadians, they would play nicely... and if you proposed something that was really a sensible solution... they would work with you to implement it.
I am glad to hear that Mr. Levant's impertinence and ignorance of Canada's tradition of party discipline lost him any chance of being in the Conservative party, I fully respect the idea and the theory of the existence of a Conservative party... but I like it when it is made up of members who don't skew the debate to a really crazy place that leaves very little room to make compromise.
ricochet biscuit has a really important key I think for people who don't get this action... she can "say" what she wants without inciting hatred, but no one is OWED a soapbox (not that Canada Press People didn't turn around and give her one lined with royal fur, and gold...) But yeah, she has her rights to say things... but how many other people diametrically opposed to her, and wanting reason, also had 'things to say'... how many of them got pages of copy? (gompa has the real and full answer though...tuition. Turn this to Canadian students benefit. Like politicians who answer to "the question they would have wanted" rather than the one that is asked. If life gives you (double-plus un)persecuted angry rightwing people... point out that rising costs to students are keeping more and more out of the education that will help them become leaders for the future... and also maybe expose them to things which will turn them off using the power of "speech with no concern for any consequence". The fuller idea and concept of "free" speech being that yes, you DO also hold "responsibility" for the words you propagate... see that's why we still remember Dr. King... he was RESPONSIBLE for the words that he spoke. So alternately using words to incite violence and to try and take away other people's rights... not cool. And people of compassion will remember. And students will likely speak up.)
Also (and really the whole reason I decided to post my love poem to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms) from that 'Ezra Levant' link; WHAAT? Since when is Glenn Beck a Michael Bubble fan?
MY worldview. It's shifted.
posted by infinite intimation at 9:52 PM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Seems like no matter what happened here Ms. Coulter would have gotten to use her freely provided multiple soapboxes to tilt at liberals... University students are good at getting mad... I really don't think there is something that could have been done altogether differently... unless you can "control" a crowd, and have them be obedient... without the officials being at all violent, or using any tazers or other weapons... because that sure would have been a national issue to use those on students protesting a liar.
Logically, there just is not any easy way this could have been "solved"... she came to Canada to "raise" that very issue in the most possible contentious way, she then did so, and people were upset, aka not having it... because Canadians don't let people toss bigot like lies on them, and get away with it. She came to Canada to be a provocative issue raiser... do we not think that she had some idea of what she was going to do, and how she would spin it... she is not an amateur troll... she is pro. (for the issue of taking posters down... would you feel ok with extremely graphic pictures of babies after abortions... and those getting to go up in places like near the campus Women's center? I personally would think that, like some of the other examples from the past, there are times when yeah, it's ok to protect people by taking a poster down. But I guess I am, always have been, or could one-day become a supporter of fake-fascists... so eh, whattayahgonnado?)
It's this "whoooooo ME?" after the fact bit that always bugs me when people go "freespeechfreespeech is the only thing that matters"... because they then ALSO think they get to turn around when someone goes and writes back at them with strong words or invokes civil or Charter law, or worst case scenario... When a person loses the part that used to be a person, and chooses to use violence. The continuous taunts, and hatred, and incitement of hatred, will eventually leave some individual thinking to themself "you KEEP HATING MY PEOPLE... "WE" DID NOTHING TO YOU..Please STOP. and then the "freespeecher" goes on, and on, and eventually the person they taunt, and slime, and label, and spew hatred onto everyday turns around... and does something radical... then the "freespeecher" every time goes... "SEE I TOLD YOU EVERYONE WHO lookslike/soundslike/worshipslike/thinkslike/sexeslike THAT PERSON IS EVILorRADICALorVIOLENTorEXTREMEIST."
To put it another way, if "I" feel afraid of the hatred inspired by "your" crazy rhetoric to a group, that impedes my individual Human "right to speak freely". (more so than civilly and politely trying to quench hate speech.) And when some people never get to participate, or be public because of hatred by large groups... they won't have means to participate, and this historically has made those oppressed people to move to radicalism, or violence. (FTR, not justifying anything; I want those ways of "expressing" ended... see, I want to see solutions to violence come from civil politics... I want everyone to feel 'allowed' to enter the public space where we all may speak without hatred being lobbed at us before we have even been INTRODUCED to each other in person. If Coulter were coming in good faith, to try to talk to and with Muslims, or Homosexual people or anyone else she inspires hatred against... good on her, and people will listen to her. However, if she comes to spew rhetoric and repeat long debunked weird claims... I hope the law will protect the citizens of Canada of are facing her hatred, and the "heck yea's" it does inspire..
Something in this CBC news piece smells... actually, a lot of it does.
Calgary last stop in 3-city tourCame under fire? Really? In a word... no she didn't.
Her three-city Canadian tour began Monday at the University of Western Ontario where she came under fire for an answer she gave to student's question about her views on Muslims.
Coulter has said all terrorists are Muslims and has suggested all Muslims be barred from airlines and use flying carpets. When the student said she didn't have a flying carpet, Coulter told her to "take a camel."
This is good news gompa, I hadn't heard of him, was wondering who he was, I had just noticed the "Ezra Levant" link with Secritfootage, where he really thinks free speech means something that it hasn't for DECADES in Canada. All signs point that the shift is massively beneficial... but he is acting like it is a slippery slide. (Then there's his berating the HRC TESTIMONY taker... I hope he feels reeeeeeaaaaalllllllll good about himself. It's dishonest footage, and frankly pretty ugly. I wonder if he would stand up to a male authority figure that way? She is a person who takes the testimony of people, a civil servant who listens to people, and records the story.. she did not dictate to the nation the idea of assuaging violent hatred before it rises to the level of physical or socio-cultural violence by the "ism's" that run around in all cultures across the globe...)
The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is pretty firmly un-assailable...(try here for a primer on some of the things that have changed due to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and here for news on new/developing cases.). I noticed the other day someone linked to the wikipedia on "controversy surrounding over application of the Charter something with something versus freespeech in Canada." Needless to say, that would definitely be firmly in the [citation needed] column, in my opinion. The Charter application in Canada is pretty hard to find faults with, when examined, even handed to a T. (neither legislating from the bench, nor doing nothing... when things need doing they are the "prod" which pushes the otherwise panic-y, flighty birds which are politicians into making change real.)
Further, it was fully agreed upon by Nexttoallofeverybody in the country - It is "enshrined" IN Canada's documents of inception. (The nations Birth Certificate if you will. Mr. Levant, Ms. Taitz). Mr. Levant should stop continually acting so shocked. The country exists in its current form not by 800 years of British law as he breathlessly claims... or would taking slaves suddenly be fine because... well, that was o.k in Britain 430 years ago.. and shirley the Law of the Land isn't allowed to change over time... as we make 'progress' as Humans. And lastly if there is seriously a law that is 'needed' but is for some weird reason banned by the Charter... there is the Notwithstanding Clause ("notwithstanding the charter...." which makes something law for five years, when it will then be reviewed, and either dumped or re-upped.)
When I think of what seems to 'make' Canada... that you can find any kind of person there, across such a diverse landscape and ecology wise... and despite some hold outs... in so very many cases, people are very compassionate, and aware, accepting and appreciative of the differences which surely fuel the nations growth and entrepreneurial and community spirit.. not only aware or simple "tolerance" based (a word that goes half-measure to a truly better future if ever something did that). But no, we do not see simply "tolerance of differences" what is seen, amidst such diversity of situation, and diversity of background, the Charter brings those differences out (not only in workplaces, but also in communities), so people can feel safe and proud and justified- not fearful of bricks through their windows in taking public roles both on a community scale, and on a national scale. (I think of it this way, instead of a tea party, with racists, you might see something like... "the Green Party." (they worry about environmental issues, not the drug.harhar) a party with a leader who has written books, is a public intellectual, she wrote a great book called clear cut logic or something similar, either way, Elizabeth May, and it was a great book.
She is like the Sarah Palin of people who want a better tomorrow, rather than a more angry tomorrow. I'd trade the "tea party rally movement ad hoc no goals one message;hands off our medicare, no socialized medicine movement group party thing" for the Canadian green party in a second. Anyone think that could happen? wanna send them south? (oh yeah, (to Americans who are turning pale, as the question of wondering if that is how the invasion happens... as they are Canadians, they would play nicely... and if you proposed something that was really a sensible solution... they would work with you to implement it.
I am glad to hear that Mr. Levant's impertinence and ignorance of Canada's tradition of party discipline lost him any chance of being in the Conservative party, I fully respect the idea and the theory of the existence of a Conservative party... but I like it when it is made up of members who don't skew the debate to a really crazy place that leaves very little room to make compromise.
ricochet biscuit has a really important key I think for people who don't get this action... she can "say" what she wants without inciting hatred, but no one is OWED a soapbox (not that Canada Press People didn't turn around and give her one lined with royal fur, and gold...) But yeah, she has her rights to say things... but how many other people diametrically opposed to her, and wanting reason, also had 'things to say'... how many of them got pages of copy? (gompa has the real and full answer though...tuition. Turn this to Canadian students benefit. Like politicians who answer to "the question they would have wanted" rather than the one that is asked. If life gives you (double-plus un)persecuted angry rightwing people... point out that rising costs to students are keeping more and more out of the education that will help them become leaders for the future... and also maybe expose them to things which will turn them off using the power of "speech with no concern for any consequence". The fuller idea and concept of "free" speech being that yes, you DO also hold "responsibility" for the words you propagate... see that's why we still remember Dr. King... he was RESPONSIBLE for the words that he spoke. So alternately using words to incite violence and to try and take away other people's rights... not cool. And people of compassion will remember. And students will likely speak up.)
Also (and really the whole reason I decided to post my love poem to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms) from that 'Ezra Levant' link; WHAAT? Since when is Glenn Beck a Michael Bubble fan?
MY worldview. It's shifted.
^*
^**can someone go back and scare quote that for me?
posted by infinite intimation at 9:52 PM on March 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Trippy. But, yeah, I (would like to?) think that on the whole most Canucks wish the likes of her would FRO. I base this on the opinion of an unrelated 70yr old fiscally-conservative friend, and 60+ yr old socially-conservative parents, plus the middle-aged folk I know. Sadly(?) the 20yr old people I know are clueless. Coulter's all about old people shit in their view.
I do, however, tend to exclude the —ist dumbfucks from my life: maybe the people who don't ridicule her number greater than I imagine. If so, I despair.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:38 PM on March 24, 2010
I do, however, tend to exclude the —ist dumbfucks from my life: maybe the people who don't ridicule her number greater than I imagine. If so, I despair.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:38 PM on March 24, 2010
Godsdamn, but that was an epic, awe-inspiring post, II.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:41 PM on March 24, 2010
posted by five fresh fish at 10:41 PM on March 24, 2010
Our dear Mr. Rock is saying that the organizers cancelled it, not the university, so any resultant oppression was self-inflicted. For effect, no doubt.
posted by Bovine Love at 6:59 AM on March 25, 2010
posted by Bovine Love at 6:59 AM on March 25, 2010
the organizers cancelled it, not the university
Hence, free speech not an issue. And again, protesters were not armed.
posted by stinkycheese at 7:33 AM on March 25, 2010
Hence, free speech not an issue. And again, protesters were not armed.
posted by stinkycheese at 7:33 AM on March 25, 2010
Stay classy!
"In a blog post an her website Wednesday, Coulter ridiculed the treatment she received in the nation's capital: '"Ottawa": Indian for 'Land of the Bed-Wetters.'"posted by ericb at 7:39 AM on March 25, 2010
I had a really disturbing dream about Ann Coulter last night.
posted by jokeefe at 8:03 AM on March 25, 2010
posted by jokeefe at 8:03 AM on March 25, 2010
I am wondering how much of Coulter's stridency and gratuitous attempts at martyrdom of late is due to the rise of Sarah Palin. The American public doesn't really have need of more than one Outspoken Outrageous Female Darling of the Right at any given time. In my experience, not a lot of people welcome the rise of a younger, cuter, more successful rival. (And for that matter, Michelle Malkin's increased prominence cannot help.)
Sigh. I guess some of us never really escape high school.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:47 AM on March 25, 2010
Sigh. I guess some of us never really escape high school.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:47 AM on March 25, 2010
'"Ottawa": Indian for 'Land of the Bed-Wetters.'"
Actually, it's an Algonquin word that means "to trade". A lot of you probably already knew that, but it's kind of a fun bit of trivia to trot out when you're getting called a communist by some ignorant neo-con American loudmouth.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that someone who fled Ottawa in terror accuses the City of being a bunch of "bed-wetters." Isn't this term usually used to describe people who are weak and cowardly? I suppose we are to believe Coulter is brave by comparison for canceling her speaking engagement out of fear of fire alarms and peaceful, unarmed crowds? What a joke.
If you really want to make a joke about Canada and "Indian words", there's a story about the name "Canada" that suggests that name was chosen based on a misunderstanding. "Kanata" was the word in a local language for "village", and some have speculated that when explorers first asked the natives for the name of the land they lived in, they were told essentially "what, this place? This is our village." It's probably just a half-truth, but it makes for a good story.
posted by Kirk Grim at 11:44 AM on March 25, 2010
Actually, it's an Algonquin word that means "to trade". A lot of you probably already knew that, but it's kind of a fun bit of trivia to trot out when you're getting called a communist by some ignorant neo-con American loudmouth.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that someone who fled Ottawa in terror accuses the City of being a bunch of "bed-wetters." Isn't this term usually used to describe people who are weak and cowardly? I suppose we are to believe Coulter is brave by comparison for canceling her speaking engagement out of fear of fire alarms and peaceful, unarmed crowds? What a joke.
If you really want to make a joke about Canada and "Indian words", there's a story about the name "Canada" that suggests that name was chosen based on a misunderstanding. "Kanata" was the word in a local language for "village", and some have speculated that when explorers first asked the natives for the name of the land they lived in, they were told essentially "what, this place? This is our village." It's probably just a half-truth, but it makes for a good story.
posted by Kirk Grim at 11:44 AM on March 25, 2010
when explorers first asked the natives for the name of the land they lived in, they were told essentially "what, this place? This is our village."
By the same token, Alabama means "weed collector."
posted by Pollomacho at 12:19 PM on March 25, 2010
By the same token, Alabama means "weed collector."
posted by Pollomacho at 12:19 PM on March 25, 2010
"Ann Coulter: Canadian free speech hero"--Macleans... Macleans.
posted by No Robots at 1:22 PM on March 25, 2010
posted by No Robots at 1:22 PM on March 25, 2010
Thank you muchly Five fresh fish... I felt it was important to come at this with some nuance and to try to examine some of the more subtle elements to the situation and equation, I just... er wait, whats that Macleans? You have thought this over? You know what it all means?
...
"Ann Coulter: Canadian free speech hero: Canadian media to UOttawa--you suck"
OH, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Just. I give up. Whatever dude bros of journalism; "thinkers" of the West manage to make grand claims that "god is dead", and find no end in how many ways to say that... but holy smoothie goodness!!! How is it still taboo, or at least not fully mainstream to assert "journalism is dead". Why do people continue to make excuses for these "nuance-free" "news" "sources"... oh, its entertainment, if you want "analysis" you can always go to journals... there are other sources etc,. Yeah, but those other sources... that isn't what everyone reads.
So I guess these entities that tell us everything that happens in the world, and tell us how to think about it, and how to frame the issue, "journalism" gets to be the arbiters of our Civilization now? People who pretend not to see any nuance and then get the last word to the public masses... I am just so glad they could figure out this complex issue and distill it down for nice consumable "answers". This is across the board garbage framing of this issue.
I quit. (feel free to frame that statement how you like...)
On preview... No Robots saw it... Robots would write better articles. (Not human-ist)
posted by infinite intimation at 1:41 PM on March 25, 2010
...
"Ann Coulter: Canadian free speech hero: Canadian media to UOttawa--you suck"
OH, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Just. I give up. Whatever dude bros of journalism; "thinkers" of the West manage to make grand claims that "god is dead", and find no end in how many ways to say that... but holy smoothie goodness!!! How is it still taboo, or at least not fully mainstream to assert "journalism is dead". Why do people continue to make excuses for these "nuance-free" "news" "sources"... oh, its entertainment, if you want "analysis" you can always go to journals... there are other sources etc,. Yeah, but those other sources... that isn't what everyone reads.
So I guess these entities that tell us everything that happens in the world, and tell us how to think about it, and how to frame the issue, "journalism" gets to be the arbiters of our Civilization now? People who pretend not to see any nuance and then get the last word to the public masses... I am just so glad they could figure out this complex issue and distill it down for nice consumable "answers". This is across the board garbage framing of this issue.
I quit. (feel free to frame that statement how you like...)
On preview... No Robots saw it... Robots would write better articles. (Not human-ist)
posted by infinite intimation at 1:41 PM on March 25, 2010
Ezra Levant (event organizer), Ken Whyte (Macleans editor-in-chief) and Colby Cosh (Macleans blogger) are all alumni of Alberta Report (full disclosure: I was on Alberta Report staff as the librarian from 1995-2000, and I did some writing for the magazine). The remolding of Macleans into a national version of Alberta Report is a fascinating story that starts with Conrad Black’s National Post. Incidentally, former Alberta Report executive editor Paul Bunner is now on the Prime Minister’s staff.
posted by No Robots at 1:58 PM on March 25, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by No Robots at 1:58 PM on March 25, 2010 [6 favorites]
There are elements within the Conservative party who want to run the next election on a human rights agenda. It wouldn’t suprise me if this whole thing proves to be an opening shot on that front.
posted by No Robots at 3:44 PM on March 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by No Robots at 3:44 PM on March 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
the organizers cancelled it, not the university
I stand corrected. Fascinating.
Also:
She even got a mention in the House of Commons, with New Democrat MP Olivia Chow accusing the government of hypocrisy in allowing her into the country, after having given the boot to an ideological opposite.
Chow said the decision last year to bar British MP George Galloway, who has expressed pro-Palestinian views, shows the Tories have a double-standard on freedom of speech.
(via Toronto Star)
Meanwhile,
(via ii's Macleans' link) in the National Post, Canada's right-wing organ:
In the U.S. media, their school, and this country, have become in the last 48 hours an object of scorn and ridicule, on all sides of the political spectrum, while Ms. Coulter has been cast a free-speech hero.
In the Canadian media I have heard today (aside from the National Post) the subtext is Canadians' subtle smug sense of superiority to Americans based upon their deficit of politeness.
posted by ovvl at 4:29 PM on March 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
I stand corrected. Fascinating.
Also:
She even got a mention in the House of Commons, with New Democrat MP Olivia Chow accusing the government of hypocrisy in allowing her into the country, after having given the boot to an ideological opposite.
Chow said the decision last year to bar British MP George Galloway, who has expressed pro-Palestinian views, shows the Tories have a double-standard on freedom of speech.
(via Toronto Star)
Meanwhile,
(via ii's Macleans' link) in the National Post, Canada's right-wing organ:
In the U.S. media, their school, and this country, have become in the last 48 hours an object of scorn and ridicule, on all sides of the political spectrum, while Ms. Coulter has been cast a free-speech hero.
In the Canadian media I have heard today (aside from the National Post) the subtext is Canadians' subtle smug sense of superiority to Americans based upon their deficit of politeness.
posted by ovvl at 4:29 PM on March 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is not a free speech issue, it's an issue of Ann Coulter and her supporters not wanting to be challenged.
The response from the media in Canada is enough to make me look back fondly on the days when Conrad Black was running the show.
Well, I guess it's off to smash my TV!
posted by Kirk Grim at 5:19 PM on March 25, 2010
The response from the media in Canada is enough to make me look back fondly on the days when Conrad Black was running the show.
Well, I guess it's off to smash my TV!
posted by Kirk Grim at 5:19 PM on March 25, 2010
Incidentally, former Alberta Report executive editor Paul Bunner is now on the Prime Minister’s staff.
Fascinating info, thanks for this.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:32 AM on March 27, 2010
Fascinating info, thanks for this.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:32 AM on March 27, 2010
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Case closed.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:34 PM on March 23, 2010 [4 favorites]