Twilight means never having to grow up and be an adult

July 1, 2010 10:46 AM

Why does Team Jacob always have to lose? Because Eclipse is a movie about rejecting adulthood, not just as a person but also as a culture. It's about rejecting adult relationships between men and women, but also between people of different races and between people from the city (like Victoria's army) and people from Forks. It's about never crossing boundaries, never leaving home.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey (222 comments total)

Don't even try to rationalize it. Just don't.
posted by crunchland at 10:47 AM on July 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

TEAM JACOB
posted by Greg Nog at 10:48 AM on July 1, 2010

TEAM MORMON INDOCTRINATION FANTASY
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:49 AM on July 1, 2010 [81 favorites]

Which one is the cute one?

LOL! Trick question!!!!!!
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:50 AM on July 1, 2010 [13 favorites]

TEAM WEREWOLV LOVE A BABY
posted by Greg Nog at 10:51 AM on July 1, 2010 [7 favorites]

Actually that racist M. Night Shyamalan movie about a cartoon I have no interest in is sounding pretty appealing around about now.
posted by Artw at 10:51 AM on July 1, 2010

TEAM SOOKIE STACKHOUSE
posted by elizardbits at 10:52 AM on July 1, 2010 [35 favorites]

Please don't ruin parts of storyline for other people. I haven't seen this movie. No, I'm not a Twilight "fan", but I do watch the movies and don't think too in depth about it and just enjoy it as a cheesy vampire film.

It's one thing if it wasn't directly on the front page, but it was. Be considerate.
posted by Malice at 10:53 AM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM ALICE — because, seriously, the little brunette is adorable.
posted by adipocere at 10:53 AM on July 1, 2010 [7 favorites]

Two Twilight FPPs in one day?

Might as well link to Roger Ebert's review. He's really much, much too kind to the movie, even though he pans it in the end.
posted by schmod at 10:53 AM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Just imagine if Poppy Z, Brite had gotten realy big, then New Orleans would be full of busloads of obnoxious tourists.
posted by Artw at 10:53 AM on July 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

Team Buffy. Put a stake in Edward the pedophile and send Jacob to the pound.
posted by humanfont at 10:54 AM on July 1, 2010 [35 favorites]

People use narrative to escape reality. Film at 11.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 10:54 AM on July 1, 2010

Werewolf boy needs a rebound, human girl needs to gain a modicum of self-confidence... the choice is clear.

TEAM OZ
posted by nicepersonality at 10:54 AM on July 1, 2010 [12 favorites]

I might've actually been OK with Twilight if it was kind of a bleak Vonnegut/ Heller sort of "guess what? the undead superpowered afterlife? Sucks just as hard and is just as conservative and moralistic as living in a repressed rural village!" take.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 10:55 AM on July 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

He's really much, much too kind to the movie

Any review that is not hysterical, mocking laughter interspersed with inconsolable sobbing at the wretched state of the human race is a dishonest review.
posted by elizardbits at 10:56 AM on July 1, 2010 [22 favorites]

TEAM CREEPY MORMON PROPAGANDA
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:57 AM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Why is it that all the recent vampire stuff is so cheesy? I want good old fashioned serious vampires.
posted by wierdo at 10:58 AM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM CHARLIE because I'm all age-appropriate that way
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:58 AM on July 1, 2010

TAG TEAM JACOB
posted by hermitosis at 10:58 AM on July 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

Straight from the Mormon Vampire's Heinie-Hole
posted by Artw at 10:59 AM on July 1, 2010

TEAM JOE PITT
posted by dortmunder at 11:00 AM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

From Ebert: . . .Edward admits that if Jacob were not a werewolf, he would probably like him, and then Jacob admits that if Edward were not a vampire — well, no, no, he couldn’t. Come on, big guy. The two of you are making eye contact. Edward’s been a confirmed bachelor for 109 years. Get in the brokeback spirit.

Roger, you dog!
posted by Think_Long at 11:00 AM on July 1, 2010 [10 favorites]

You know, it may just be that I have a soft spot for terrible teen movies, but I've found these movies pretty entertaining.

Don't get me wrong-- they're awful, but still, they're entertaining.

Now the books, I wouldn't read them if you held a gun to my head, but the movies-- kinda hilariously fun to watch.
posted by dersins at 11:00 AM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

Actually that racist M. Night Shyamalan movie about a cartoon I have no interest in is sounding pretty appealing around about now.

Or just see Toy Story 3 (again), which is superior to both those movies in the way that the Sun is bigger than a hydrogen atom.
posted by kmz at 11:02 AM on July 1, 2010 [5 favorites]

TEAM SOOKIE STACKHOUSE

TEAM PAM'S PUMPS FOREVER.
posted by The Whelk at 11:02 AM on July 1, 2010 [17 favorites]

TEAM PAM'S PUMPS FOREVER.

PAM THOSE WERE NICE PUMPS
posted by Greg Nog at 11:03 AM on July 1, 2010 [20 favorites]

Ebert: "Yes, he has a great build, but I remind you that an abdominal six-pack must be five seconds’ work for a shape-shifter."

This is a good point.
posted by kenko at 11:03 AM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

Asked daughter what team she was on: "Who wants to snuggle up to a cold, thin body that $$#% glitters?! I need a man!"

Ok, awkward.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:05 AM on July 1, 2010 [80 favorites]

Why is it that all the recent vampire stuff is so cheesy? I want good old fashioned serious vampires.

I blame Fast Zombies.

Fast Zombies took away all the unstoppable killing machine angle that Vampires had, draining them of their monstrosity and leaving only their romantic underpinnings.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:07 AM on July 1, 2010 [15 favorites]

> Why is it that all the recent vampire stuff is so cheesy? I want good old fashioned serious vampires.

While I think it's nigh impossible to escape cheesiness when vampires are the subject, this year's "Daybreakers" had a kind of cool aesthetic and superfluous amounts of vampire gore.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:08 AM on July 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

TAG TEAM JACOB

Fuck that. He is mine I tell you.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:09 AM on July 1, 2010

As long as we're talking about vampires, here's the trailer for the American remake of Let The Right One In.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:10 AM on July 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

I haven't watched a Twilight movie in the normal manner ever, but I have to say, the Rifftrax versions are consistently great.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:10 AM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Please don't ruin parts of storyline for other people. I haven't seen this movie.

Spoiler alert! Here are some other things that may be considered spoilers:

• The Harlem Globetrotters are going to win their next game. It's an exhibition-style game where they show off neat basketball tricks.
• In Antigone, pretty much everyone dies. It's a Greek tragedy.
• At the end of Notting Hill, Hugh Grant gets Julia Roberts. It's a romantic comedy.
• Bella chooses Edward. It's a teen vampire romance series and - here's the tricky part - Edward is a vampire.

posted by 0xFCAF at 11:11 AM on July 1, 2010 [85 favorites]

A friend of mine's status update on Facebook:

"Isn't choosing between 'Team Edward' and 'Team Jacob' kind of like choosing between 'Team Necrophilia' and 'Team Bestiality'?"

I laughed.
posted by mysterpigg at 11:13 AM on July 1, 2010 [38 favorites]

Having read a breathless summary of the books I am left wondering it has the whole Edward chewing the baby out of Bellas tummy bit, and the creepy as heck Jacob-is-imprinted-on-the-unborn-child bit, or if those are glossed over in the voiceovers-on-top-of-trees the reviews mention.
posted by Artw at 11:16 AM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Artw, the baby stuff is in the next movie, not this one. The only Twilight movie I want to watch is the fourth one, just to see how they deal with the creepy, ridiculous in-love-with-a-baby thing.
posted by lullaby at 11:22 AM on July 1, 2010 [5 favorites]

The whole Twilight universe is about rejecting rationality. I've always been a fan of imagination and fantasy and hanging on to your childhood dreams, but the Twilight series serves to remind me that some people's fantasies are not at all healthy.
posted by Eideteker at 11:23 AM on July 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

As long as we're talking about vampires, here's the trailer for the American remake of Let The Right One In.

Oh why, why, why? The book worked. The movie worked. Why remake it?
posted by rdr at 11:24 AM on July 1, 2010 [8 favorites]

This is a strange reason to be on Team Jacob. It's like the plot of Captain Courageous: a spoiled boy from a rich aristocratic family learns the virtues of hard work and humility from a romanticized working class. So the idea of a decadent, cold upper class who must learn "humanity, warmth, frank eroticism" from the lower classes has always been part of the elitist fantasy. Sure, we white elites have most of the power in society, but those black people have so much more soul!

I watched an episode of Party Down last night that mocks this exact idea: the team is catering a funeral, and Kyle starts shadowing a elderly black man, who he takes to be an "authentic blues man", asking to taken under his wing so he can really learn about the blues. The old man exploits this by making Kyle do a series of increasingly ridiculous and degrading tasks which Kyle fills with deep symbolism of the experience of slavery, etc. Finally, it's revealed that the old man is just a retired dentist.

So maybe the real reason that Bella must reject Jacob is because she's already shown herself to be a vampire, feeding off of his presumed soulful authenticity.
posted by AlsoMike at 11:26 AM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

The... creepy... ridiculous... in-love-with-a-baby thing.

...


I got nothin'. I'm too freaking sick to be reading things like that. My constitution is delicate.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:27 AM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

As long as we're talking about vampires, here's the trailer for the American remake of Let The Right One In.

Oh boy. At least in LTROI they can't have sex ever, in Twilight they just won't ever have sex. Trailer looks pretty awful though.
posted by Elmore at 11:29 AM on July 1, 2010

Team Lugosi!
posted by thivaia at 11:34 AM on July 1, 2010 [5 favorites]

Friggin' Twilight.
posted by soft and hardcore taters at 11:35 AM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Oh god... I forgot that there would be four of the fuckers.
posted by Artw at 11:37 AM on July 1, 2010

Oh god... I forgot that there would be four of the fuckers.

Five, I think....the final one is in two parts.
posted by iconomy at 11:41 AM on July 1, 2010

the final one is in two parts

Really? Still? I thought they changed their minds about that pathetic, whorish, blatant Harry Potter franchise copying.
posted by elizardbits at 11:43 AM on July 1, 2010

Is there anyone else who hasn't seen the movies who now wants to watch them after reading the article?
posted by seagull.apollo at 11:43 AM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM I AM NOT SURE WHY I SHOULD CARE
posted by davejay at 11:45 AM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

So Team Jacob is like the vampire version of the Democratic Party?
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:46 AM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Eclipse you say?

TEAM JAVA CODER
posted by A dead Quaker at 11:46 AM on July 1, 2010 [16 favorites]

TEAM JESSICA AND HOYT

Oh why, why, why? The book worked. The movie worked. Why remake it?

The movie worked, but it was in Scary Weirdo Not English. Shit, it wasn't even in Spanish.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:49 AM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

TEAM THE VAMPIRE WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO (THAT IS ALSO A VAMPIRE DRAGON)
posted by Artw at 11:52 AM on July 1, 2010 [8 favorites]

From some of the screenwriter's comments, it doesn't sound like they'll be filming a vampire Cesarean.

Bah.

What's the point, then?
posted by rewil at 11:53 AM on July 1, 2010 [5 favorites]

On the fan site, on Facebook, all the comments are "It has to be R rated! You have to show the childbirth! Gore and guts and sex!" For me it's actually more interesting to not see it. You know, you can do childbirth without seeing childbirth ... it doesn't mean it's any less evocative of an experience.

WEAK!
posted by Artw at 11:55 AM on July 1, 2010

TEAM TYLER'S VAN
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:56 AM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

"Isn't choosing between 'Team Edward' and 'Team Jacob' kind of like choosing between 'Team Necrophilia' and 'Team Bestiality'?"

There's only one team here: TEAM EPHEBOPHILIA.

At the gay bar trivia night I attended yesterday, one team called themselves "Kagan's on Team Bella." I admit I laughed.
posted by kittyprecious at 12:04 PM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

People in fictional universes who have been accused of pedophilia:

Angel:Buffy
Spike:Buffy
The Doctor: Dr. Who
That captainy dude in sequest was totally banging that 13 year old: Sea Quest
The bodyguard:Johnny Quest
Batman: The DC universe

Conclusion: Everyone is pedophiles! Don’t form babbys. They will be pedophiled.
posted by edbles at 12:06 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM NEPHI
posted by blucevalo at 12:07 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

So wait. Not ending up with Bella is losing?
posted by Babblesort at 12:07 PM on July 1, 2010 [12 favorites]

Having read a breathless summary of the books I am left wondering it has the whole Edward chewing the baby out of Bellas tummy bit, and the creepy as heck Jacob-is-imprinted-on-the-unborn-child bit, or if those are glossed over in the voiceovers-on-top-of-trees the reviews mention.

I've heard they're going to be off-screen... which is a bit boring
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:13 PM on July 1, 2010

Team Buffy. Put a stake in Edward the pedophile

Buffy is in a poor position to lecture other teenage girls re: inappropriate relationships with creatures who are hundreds of years old.
posted by rodgerd at 12:13 PM on July 1, 2010 [16 favorites]

Stephenie Meyer: The Victorian age was actually pretty great for women... let's go back to that!
posted by codacorolla at 12:16 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM KARNSTEIN!
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:16 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

TEAM RUTHVEN!
posted by Artw at 12:20 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Twilight means never having to say you're sorry about posting a critical analysis of Twilight.


Oh why, why, why? The book worked. The movie worked. Why remake it?

The dubbed version (the version available on Netflix, I believe) had horrible English actors. It sorta ruined it.

TEAM JESSICA AND HOYT

or, yeah, TEAM EPHEBOPHILIA
posted by mrgrimm at 12:23 PM on July 1, 2010

Is this seriously the second FPP about that stupid teeny-bopper movie today?
posted by paisley henosis at 12:23 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM DIEUDONNÉ
posted by Artw at 12:24 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM TARDIS

Because giant space vampires.
posted by bettafish at 12:25 PM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

Is there anyone else who hasn't seen the movies who now wants to watch them after reading the article?

No.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:26 PM on July 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

rdr:
As long as we're talking about vampires, here's the trailer for the American remake of Let The Right One In.

Oh why, why, why? The book worked. The movie worked. Why remake it?

Why remake Old Boy? Why remake Funny Games? For that matter, why remake Men Who Stare At Goats as a non-documentary?

Because (1) some people won't watch movies that aren't in English and (2) Hollywood, mainly, sucks and is shit.
posted by paisley henosis at 12:27 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM BREAD!
TEAM CIRCUSES!
posted by infinitewindow at 12:30 PM on July 1, 2010 [8 favorites]

To choose Edward, Bella also has to reject all the trappings of human life for reasons that seem inexplicable. Though the Cullen kids go to high school, for some reason we're given to understand that Bella's transformation into a vampire means she won't be able to go to college.

Weird. Does anyone actually try to explain why these vampires go to high school, at this particular time? Do they just need to 're-up' every few decade years on youth culture?

Please don't ruin parts of storyline for other people. I haven't seen this movie. No, I'm not a Twilight "fan", but I do watch the movies and don't think too in depth about it and just enjoy it as a cheesy vampire film.
It's one thing if it wasn't directly on the front page, but it was. Be considerate.

How could anyone not know that Bella ends up with Edwards?

Okay so my understanding of the baby thing is that the baby is actually able to have telepathic communication with Jacob, and that it also breaks Bella's spine by kicking. Pretty crazy stuff.
posted by delmoi at 12:30 PM on July 1, 2010

"Osama bin Laden himself is a member of team Jacob."
posted by homunculus at 12:30 PM on July 1, 2010

Team hunt them down and kill them. Not with teenage girls, or half-vampires, or shadowy Vatican teams, or psychics, or secret societies. No, hunt them down with science and kill them with fire and/or highly trained men and women with big guns.
posted by ecurtz at 12:31 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Really? Still? I thought they changed their minds about that pathetic, whorish, blatant Harry Potter franchise copying.

It never even occurred to me that Harry Potter had something to do with the fact that it's a two-parter - there is a whole hell of a lot that goes on in the fourth book, it would be quite difficult to squeeze it all into one film.

p.s. I love Twilight
posted by ukdanae at 12:31 PM on July 1, 2010

Think_Long: From Ebert: . . .Edward admits that if Jacob were not a werewolf, he would probably like him, and then Jacob admits that if Edward were not a vampire — well, no, no, he couldn’t. Come on, big guy. The two of you are making eye contact. Edward’s been a confirmed bachelor for 109 years. Get in the brokeback spirit.

Roger, you dog!

Every time I think I can't dig Ebert more, he shows me up.

Also the opening to his Last Airbender review made me bust a gut:

"The Last Airbender" is an agonizing experience in every category I can think of and others still waiting to be invented. The laws of chance suggest that something should have gone right. Not here.

But back to TEAM METROSEXUAL-WEREWOLF, what's with all the smooth? Is this dealt with in the books? Because if not, wtf?

Also, this was in the comments from the io9 post from somewhere on Twitter (I think I traced it to here originally), and I found it pretty right on:

Twilight's like soccer. They run around for 2 hours, nobody scores, and its billion fans insist you just don't understand.

posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:33 PM on July 1, 2010 [17 favorites]

TEAM OH MY GOD THE HORRIBLE ACTING MAKES MY EYES BLEED!
posted by oddman at 12:33 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM CREEPY MORMON PROPAGANDA

I would totally read The Work And The Glory And Vampires.

And I'll Build You A Rainbow With Vampires And Werewolves would be awesome (but only as a filmstrip with a warped cassette tape soundtrack).
posted by The World Famous at 12:37 PM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

p.s. I love Twilight

Well don't.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:37 PM on July 1, 2010 [6 favorites]

At least in LTROI they can't have sex ever

You really think the American version is going to acknowledge that [mouse over for spoiler]?
posted by nicwolff at 12:38 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM PLEASE GET OUT OF THE HOUSE MORE
posted by jonmc at 12:39 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Well don't.

Aw, no need to be so grumpy! It's a wonderful escapist hilariously camp fantasy that makes me feel all kinds of emotions I haven't felt since a teenager, and more than anything, it's just fun. I know it's fashionable to trash on things like Twilight, but I think it's delightful.
posted by ukdanae at 12:41 PM on July 1, 2010

1) Something that has seeped into nearly all aspects of culture, pop and otherwise (music act, crap movie which opens to ridiculous, record setting opening, etc.)
2) Some of the commentary/clever mockery of it seeps into MetaFilter, sometimes more than once!
3) Folks complain because a thing that is actually popular is being commented on, even if most of the commentary on MetaFilter has been just as clever or interesting as much of the other stuff on the site, but it is tainted by actual popularity so should be shunned, even when it comes to cultural commentary or mockery.
4) X
5) Profit.

God, I wish I could solve for X.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:41 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

God, I wish I could solve for X.

X = Being in the Lady GaGa profits food chain
posted by The World Famous at 12:43 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

ukdanae, I'm sorry. That was unnecessary and I regretted it the moment I posted it.

That said, my problem with Twilight isn't that it's just trash. It's that it's morally repugnant, potentially damaging trash being spoon-fed to a generation of young girls to tell them that their identity is entirely tied to whatever man they choose and that abuse is the romantic ideal.

I can't abide that shit.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:44 PM on July 1, 2010 [34 favorites]

MCMikeNamara: Try this.
posted by edbles at 12:46 PM on July 1, 2010

Coming soon: Twilight Part 75, starring Lady GaGa & Morrissey with soundtrack by Radiohead....

*explodes*
posted by jonmc at 12:47 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM ULTRAVIOLET


Also: Stephenie Meyer is Mormon, but the cultural milieu that informs her writing is not MY faith (I'm Mormon too), and it depresses me that she gets to represent my religion to the world through her inexplicably popular series.

My wife read the books and gave me little synopses as she went. I find the whole idea savagely stupid and these books do their very best to reinforce wrongheaded ideas about love and sexuality. And that stuff with the baby is just repugnant.
posted by jnrussell at 12:47 PM on July 1, 2010 [5 favorites]

It's that it's morally repugnant, potentially damaging trash being spoon-fed to a generation of young girls to tell them that their identity is entirely tied to whatever man they choose and that abuse is the romantic ideal.

This cannot possibly be stressed enough.
posted by elizardbits at 12:48 PM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

Buffy is in a poor position to lecture other teenage girls re: inappropriate relationships with creatures who are hundreds of years old.

Unlike Bella, Buffy learns from her mistakes.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:50 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Guys, seriously, just go read The Passage.

We should lock Edward and BABCOCK AND THE MANY (THE FAT WOMAN HER ROLLS OF FAT THE KNIFE THE KNIFE THE KNIFE OH OH) in a room for just like 30 seconds.

Please.
posted by kbanas at 12:52 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Why does Team Jacob always have to lose? Because Eclipse is a movie about rejecting adulthood, not just as a person but also as a culture. It's about rejecting adult relationships between men and women, but also between people of different races and between people from the city (like Victoria's army) and people from Forks. It's about never crossing boundaries, never leaving home.

This is actually a pretty good analysis of what goes on in the books and movies.

I only got so far as the second book, but part of the reason that I stopped was that I was frustrated how Bella gives up a relationship with Jacob, who comforts her in the wake of her breakup with Edward, shares interests with her, and can make her laugh, for a vampire who doesn't seem to offer her much by way of companionship. When her relationship with Edward pretty much consists of their lying around watching TV together while talking about how OMGWEAREJUSTLIKEROMEOANDJULIET.

So, team jacob, I guess.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:54 PM on July 1, 2010

Please don't ruin parts of storyline for other people. I haven't seen this movie. No, I'm not a Twilight "fan", but I do watch the movies and don't think too in depth about it and just enjoy it as a cheesy vampire film.
It's one thing if it wasn't directly on the front page, but it was. Be considerate.

DARTH VADER IS LUKE'S FATHER
posted by micawber at 12:54 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

That's okay Navelgazer -- i do understand where you are coming from, it really is trash, just deliciously trashy trash for people like me.

It's that it's morally repugnant, potentially damaging trash being spoon-fed to a generation of young girls to tell them that their identity is entirely tied to whatever man they choose and that abuse is the romantic ideal.

I never got the morally repugnant vibe from the books. I know there's the whole let's-wait-till-marriage which is True Love Waits cheesy, but having grown up with a promise ring on myself, I don't think these sorts of things stick once hormones kick in. And Bella's aversion to getting married because she doesn't want to be a teen bride stereotype doesn't sound unhealthy to me.

Maybe it didn't freak me out because i grew up in a super-strict, hills of Appalachia Baptist community.
posted by ukdanae at 12:55 PM on July 1, 2010

> Might as well link to Roger Ebert's review. He's really much, much too kind to the movie, even though he pans it in the end.

Famous critic who allows the public to comment on his blog has learned to moderate his tone regarding topics on which many people have very strong opinions. Film at eleven.
posted by ardgedee at 12:56 PM on July 1, 2010

But back to TEAM METROSEXUAL-WEREWOLF, what's with all the smooth? Is this dealt with in the books? Because if not, wtf?

'Still, when the hosts of "Strip Search" Smooth Wolf announce that the guys get to go on a shopping trip vampire hunt, and the room explodes into cheering and high-fives, it's like watching the tides change suddenly and drastically. Even the two hosts laugh and look at each other, completely confused. "Oh my god, they're so excited! I had no idea they were gonna get that excited!" Downstairs, we cut to the guys singing together, "We're going shopping vampire hunting! We're going shopping vampire hunting!" as they hurriedly change clothes to leave.'

My take: 12-yr-old girls don't like big, beefy Tom Selleck/Oliver Reed types.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:59 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM MY WELL-MEANING IN-LAWS GAVE US A SET OF THE BOOKS FOR CHRISTMAS AND I FEEL BAD FOR HIDING THEM BEHIND THE ELLROY AND HAMMETT ON MY CRIME SHELF AND IT DIDN'T HELP THINGS WHEN MY SISTER SAID THEY WERE BAD BUT READABLE BECAUSE ALTHOUGH I LOVE HER MY SISTER HAS SHITTY SHITTY TASTE
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:59 PM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

Artw: Actually that racist M. Night Shyamalan movie about a cartoon I have no interest in is sounding pretty appealing around about now.

You mean that comedic blockbuster M. Night Shyamalan made? As follows:

"Clearly, Shyamalan tried to cast Asians, but he just couldn't find any whose performances were lifeless enough."

Oh, it's going to be tough deciding which couch I want to sit on at home as I actively avoid these movies.
posted by jabberjaw at 12:59 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM ALICE

I once remarked that I'd like to re-cut and edit the first Twilight movie, trimming it down to a tight 10 minute action packed short, where Alice is the competent main character that deals with the aggressive evil other vampires while her hopelessly inept family wanders around like a bunch of head-injury casualties in the background.

But then, I'd have to watch the movie again, and that ain't gonna happen.
posted by quin at 1:01 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Famous critic who allows the public to comment on his blog has learned to moderate his tone regarding topics on which many people have very strong opinions. Film at eleven.

Having already felt the hot, limp rage of hardcore video gamers around the world, Ebert was loathe to tempt fate again by angering Twihards, already known to be far more vicious and unrelenting.
posted by jnrussell at 1:01 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM LAST YEAR IN MARIENBAD
posted by Pastabagel at 1:03 PM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

I never got the morally repugnant vibe from the books.

The reprehensible message from this book has nothing to do with promise rings and abstinence until marriage.

Edward Cullen displays classic abusive behavior: he isolates Bella from her friends, he monitors where she goes and with whom, all in the name of "doing what's best for her". Because women are too weak-willed to take care of themselves and should just passively submit to the will of their menfolk?


Jacob kisses her against her will, and her reaction is to just go limp and wait for it to end. When her father finds out, he tells Jacob "it's about time".

IT'S ABOUT TIME?! It's about time you sexually assaulted my teenage daughter? WHAT THE EVERLOVING FUCK.


Dude, I could go on for DAYS about the horrible, revolting messages that this book is giving to young impressionable girls.
posted by elizardbits at 1:03 PM on July 1, 2010 [43 favorites]

My dad worked at Thiokol (in Utah) as a "rocket scientist". The majority of his coworkers were Mormon. They had a shower at work for a 33-year-old engineer who was getting married and his 16-year-old blushing bride. They had been waiting until she reached the age when she could marry in Utah with parental consent. My dad was the only one in his group who appeared freaked out by this.

This situation was unusual in Utah. Most Utah Mormons I know followed the standard he's-20-she's-18 track after the guy got back from a mission, so that the guy only had a 2-year age jump on the girl to help him dominate the relationship.

TEAM PEDAUVINIST

(disclaimer: not all Mormons are blahblahblah, some of my best friends are blahblahblah)
posted by gurple at 1:05 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM ORLOK
posted by Artw at 1:09 PM on July 1, 2010

Unreadable mess turned into unwatchable movies. Coming soon to discount DVD bins near us.

TEAM KILL 'EM WITH FIRE.
posted by zarq at 1:09 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM BISCLAVRET
posted by Artw at 1:12 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM I HAVE HAD TO LOOK UP SO MANY FANCY WORDS BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD
posted by edbles at 1:14 PM on July 1, 2010 [5 favorites]

TEAM DOING MY BEST TO PRETEND A WIDE RANGE OF HOLLYWOOD PRODUCTS DON'T EXIST
posted by aught at 1:16 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM BISCLAVRET

That is the weirdest fucking story.
posted by edbles at 1:16 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

American culture celebrated irresponsibility and crassness when Ferris Bueller's Day Off and Animal House came out, rejects all signs of aging such as grey hair, balding, wrinkles and flab, and uses "over-the-hill" to describe sports figures who have matured, child stars who have grown up, and female movie stars over thirty. Bella's rejection of adulthood is different HOW?
posted by lleachie at 1:17 PM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

Oh why, why, why? The book worked. The movie worked. Why remake it?

I am pretty sure that a lot of people consider foreign film to be a separate medium to film (the same way graphic novels are separate for novels). Therefore it makes the same kind of sense to make a foreign film from a book as it does to make a film from a foreign film. Saying 'The [foreign] movie worked. Why remake it [as a domestic film]?' is akin to saying 'The book worked. Why remake it [as a foreign film]?'
posted by shakespeherian at 1:19 PM on July 1, 2010

My dad worked at Thiokol (in Utah) as a "rocket scientist".

So he wasn't a rocket scientist? He was a sarcastic rocket scientist? Your quotation marks confuse and frighten me!
posted by Shepherd at 1:22 PM on July 1, 2010 [5 favorites]

TEAM PERCHTA BELLY-SLITTER
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 1:26 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM ELI

Seriously, she needs a hug.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:27 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

I seem to recall reading that they're re-making the The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo trilogy in English, too.
posted by paisley henosis at 1:27 PM on July 1, 2010

He was a sarcastic rocket scientist?

If that doesn't appear as the title and subject matter of a song on MeFiMusic, I will be so disappointed.
posted by The World Famous at 1:28 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM GOLEM

Seriously, golems are the shit.
posted by ocherdraco at 1:36 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

lleachie - I think the point is that those who did grow up with Ferris Bueller and Animal House now see the error of our ways and realize that rejecting adulthood and permanently infantlizing society and worshipping youth is a VERY BAD IDEA, because it leads to things like the Tea Party and people who think if they believe hard enough, a fantasy that is detrimental to their and other peoples health is ok to continue to believe in.

And vampires and werewolves were allegory to other things that this series of books shits all over and wipes its ass with $100 bills while saying with a smirk that "I don't like scary vampires, I'm going to make them sparkly." This doesn't even begin to cover up the horrendous image of a useless twat (haven't read the books, not going to read them, already had problems sitting through the first movie, hoping for lulz, finding only pain and more pain) who can't see a predatory and damaging relationship for what it is, without the supernatural bullshit sprinkled on top.
posted by daq at 1:38 PM on July 1, 2010

people who think if they believe hard enough, a fantasy that is detrimental to their and other peoples health is ok to continue to believe in.

I'm pretty sure people like that existed before Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
posted by The World Famous at 1:41 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM PHILLIP PULLMAN

For writing books dealing with morality set in a fantasy universe, that have a sex positive attitude, and have intelligent, capable female leads.
posted by edbles at 1:42 PM on July 1, 2010 [7 favorites]

So he wasn't a rocket scientist? He was a sarcastic rocket scientist? Your quotation marks confuse and frighten me!

He was an orbital mechanics engineer. He was indeed a rocket scientist. People don't know what the first term means and the second term encompasses a lot of specialties, so... "rocket scientist".
posted by gurple at 1:42 PM on July 1, 2010

There has been a proliferation of alternatives to TEAM EDWARD lately.

And I'm surprised no one has brought up TEAM JACOB from LOST (not pleasantly surprised; the Lost discussions here are better than the Twilight discussions)
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:45 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Team hunt them down and kill them. Not with teenage girls, or half-vampires, or shadowy Vatican teams, or psychics, or secret societies. No, hunt them down with science and kill them with fire and/or highly trained men and women with big guns.

Ah, Team Riley.
posted by rodgerd at 1:46 PM on July 1, 2010 [12 favorites]

Edward Cullen displays classic abusive behavior: he isolates Bella from her friends, he monitors where she goes and with whom, all in the name of "doing what's best for her". Because women are too weak-willed to take care of themselves and should just passively submit to the will of their menfolk?

elizardbits, I see where you're coming from. As I read those bits where he is all OMG I MUST PROTECT YOU, I think, god, how immature and stupid. But the whole appeal of Twilight is that it's immature and stupid, and it reflects how i felt when i was immature and stupid. I felt like my world revolved around a boy, that my very being was in threat if he didn't answer my note in class immediately, and that none of my friends understood how in love we were.

To me, Twilight isn't popular because it's telling young girls how to feel, it's popular because it plays back exactly how a lot of young girls already feel. It taps into their self-doubt, their escapist fantasies and immature ideas of love and romance. Whether or not girls understand that it is a fantasy or not is another debate, but I don't necessarily think it's a Very Bad Thing more than escapist glittery-man-sexy-abs-boy fun.
posted by ukdanae at 1:47 PM on July 1, 2010 [7 favorites]

Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey: My take: 12-yr-old girls don't like big, beefy Tom Selleck/Oliver Reed types.

Right. Thanks. I forget that just because at certain points in my life (like all of them) I have liked some things that 12 year old girls like doesn't mean that we're going to continue to agree on everything.


Big beefy types FTW
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:48 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Team Mr. Pointy.
posted by desuetude at 1:51 PM on July 1, 2010 [10 favorites]

I don't think it's immature and stupid any more than I think that Twilight hate is somehow "fashionable". I think it's misogynist and emotionally damaging and incredibly disturbing. Feeling that your world revolves around a boy is natural, at pretty much any age. Feeling that your life should therefore be controlled in all aspects by said boy is unnatural, at pretty much any age.


Twilight isn't popular because it's telling young girls how to feel, it's popular because it plays back exactly how a lot of young girls already feel. It taps into their self-doubt, their escapist fantasies and immature ideas of love and romance.

Yes, and instead of teaching them to be strong, self-sufficient women with self-respect, women who are capable of standing up for themselves, it teaches them to be passive and meek and subservient.

It baffles me how women can't see how potentially damaging this is.

I bet FEMINIST HULK understands.
posted by elizardbits at 1:54 PM on July 1, 2010 [12 favorites]

TEAM TARDIS

Because giant space vampires.

Well, if we're going there, then

TEAM THAT CHICK FROM LIFEFORCE THAT SPEND THE WHOLE DAMN MOVIE GALLIVANTING ABOUT BARE-ASS NEKKID. ALSO TEAM THE EXPLODING VAMPIRO-ZOMBIES FROM LIFEFORCE.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:55 PM on July 1, 2010 [7 favorites]

TEAM GOLEM

Golems lack self determination.

I suppose you could just write "EMO" on a peice of paper and stick it to it's head.
posted by Artw at 1:56 PM on July 1, 2010 [11 favorites]

TEAM SALT VAMPIRE
posted by Artw at 1:56 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM YES WE HAVE NOSFERATU. WE HAVE NOSFERATU TODAY!
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:58 PM on July 1, 2010 [4 favorites]

But Bella doesn't let Edward control her life. She goes against his wishes pretty much all the time, and eventually forces him to accept that she's not going to abide by his unreasonable rules and restrictions. On top of that, she essentially makes him accept a romantic competitor as part of her life, which doesn't strike me as wilting violet material. Sure, she's not Buffy the Vampire Slayer or anything, but his controlling behaviour constantly grates on her in the books, and she usually does do what she pleases anyway. I really don't think that's teaching girls to be passive and meek.

The bad message I think Twilight sends is Bella's constant inability to accept that Oh So Perfect Edward really loves Little Old Her - it's demeaning to herself and really stupid. I really don't think it's a strong, empowering book, but I don't think it's misogynist, either.
posted by ukdanae at 2:02 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

TIME GEUNG SI SIN SANG!
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:06 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Edward: mopey loner stalker. Diet: human blood

Jacob: healthy, socialized, probably very handy around the house, fun to play frisbee with (in either form). Diet: available in 50-lb bags at front of supermarket

That's why I'm totally team Jacob, even though by far the highlight of either movie was the Radiohead song in 5/4 at the credits (clap-a clap-a clap clap)
posted by kurumi at 2:07 PM on July 1, 2010 [7 favorites]

TEAM LO PAN

(Only girls with green eyes need apply)
posted by Artw at 2:08 PM on July 1, 2010 [7 favorites]

TEAM BELLA SHOULD DTMFAS AND SEEK THERAPY

also known as team askmefi
posted by dinty_moore at 2:09 PM on July 1, 2010 [17 favorites]

How Twilight Works
posted by P.o.B. at 2:13 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Or Why Twilight is Popular
posted by P.o.B. at 2:16 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM BANZAI. What?
posted by The Bellman at 2:26 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

My theory is that Twilight is popular because the characters are so weak and ill-defined that the young adult (female?) reader can put herself in Bella's place in the story, and imagine just about anyone (creepy) filling Edward's shoes. There is no personality there to conflict with in imagining themselves as part of the story. If it were intentional it would be brilliant, but I have no doubt it's the accidental by product of hack writing.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:27 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM NEAR DARK.

Or maybe...

TEAM GRATUITOUS LESBIAN LOVE SCENE.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:31 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

TEAM BOWIE
posted by Artw at 2:32 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

My theory is that Twilight is popular because the characters are so weak and ill-defined that the young adult (female?) reader can put herself in Bella's place in the story, and imagine just about anyone (creepy) filling Edward's shoes. There is no personality there to conflict with in imagining themselves as part of the story. If it were intentional it would be brilliant, but I have no doubt it's the accidental by product of hack writing.

This seems to be a claim largely leveled by people who haven't read it. Bella has a pretty strong personality--I actually found her fairly unlikeable and unsympathetic, and the specificities of her life (latch-key kid with perpetually adolescent parents, no real friends to call her own except for boys who pursue her romantically, disdain for her peers, uprooted just before her senior year of highschool and married shortly after graduation etc.) pretty unusual.

Though of course, physically, it's true. Stephenie Meyer went to great pains not to describe her physically within the text so that teenage girls could imagine themselves in Bella's place.

Kinda like how in porn, they want the viewer to be able to imagine themselves in the shoes of the "protag," so you only see the dude's dick.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:33 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

All your Twilight questions are answered now and always by the Sparkledammerung.

You're welcome.

TEAM BILL AND SAM SEXXY DREAM SEQUENCE AW YEAH
posted by emjaybee at 2:38 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Interesting, I noticed the lack of physical description, but I couldn't get very far into the book, because 30 pages in all I got out of the character was 'insufferably whiny', and I had to give up on reading it. Given the dreck I've waded through in life, for me to actually give up on a book, and not just shelve it for later, makes it one in a thousand bad.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:39 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM JODY

I just finished reading Moore's Bite Me!

I'd say TEAM CHET, but aligning myself with a giant shaved vampire cat who's slowly turning into a human just feels... I don't know... weird.
posted by quin at 2:46 PM on July 1, 2010

p.s. I love Twilight
posted by ukdanae at 3:31 PM on July 1


TEAM AM JUDGING YOU HARD!


posted by liza at 2:53 PM on July 1, 2010

How Twilight Works
posted by P.o.B. at 5:13 PM on July 1

can't.
stop.
LAUGHING!
posted by liza at 3:11 PM on July 1, 2010

Guys, seriously, just go read The Passage.

We should lock Edward and BABCOCK AND THE MANY (THE FAT WOMAN HER ROLLS OF FAT THE KNIFE THE KNIFE THE KNIFE OH OH) in a room for just like 30 seconds.

Please.

TEAM HE WASN'T JUST BORN DUMB HE WAS STRUCK DUMB
posted by angrycat at 3:40 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM UBUNTU oh wait wrong thread
posted by tracicle at 3:42 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

TEAM BUFFY
TEAM JODY

TEAM MR. FRENCH, bitches!
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:07 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

127 since your most recent comment

The hell people?
posted by The Whelk at 4:24 PM on July 1, 2010

The hell people?

I don't think they like to be referred to as "hell people." I mean, sure, they're technically affiliated with hell. But you don't have to rub it in.
posted by The World Famous at 4:25 PM on July 1, 2010

I haven't watched a Twilight movie in the normal manner ever, but I have to say, the Rifftrax versions are consistently great.

Honestly, I couldn't even make it through those. The films were simply too vapid to provide enough material to go on, endless repetition of "line..liiine...LINE..LIINE!?!?" during all of that dreamy eye contact and excellent Gymkata reference aside.
posted by StrangerInAStrainedLand at 4:43 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM AMERICA!

FUCK YEAH!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:44 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

TEAM SPARKLEPONIES
posted by casarkos at 5:04 PM on July 1, 2010

From some of the screenwriter's comments, it doesn't sound like they'll be filming a vampire Cesarean.

I DID NOT PUT MYSELF THROUGH READING THE BOOKS TO MISS THIS ON THE BIG SCREEN, GOD DAMN IT!

Also, quin, is it just me or does Alice totally have a thing for Bella and vice versa? There were some points during the book where I was all "OH MY GOD, BELLA IS HOT FOR ALICE! PLEASE! go with that! it'll make the book so so so much awesomer!"
posted by bitter-girl.com at 5:12 PM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

TEAM SPARKLEPONIES

Close enough for me...
posted by sparkletone at 5:27 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM RIPPER

Rupert Giles fuck yeah
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:31 PM on July 1, 2010 [8 favorites]

does Alice totally have a thing for Bella and vice versa?

It's possible. I stopped paying attention to the finer details about 20 minutes into the first movie when I realized that both Bella and Edward have Aspergers.

Seriously, the movie makes so much more sense once you come to that conclusion.
posted by quin at 5:47 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

It's really that Kristen Stewart and Robert Pattinson seem to have the default mode of 'awkward'.
posted by lullaby at 5:55 PM on July 1, 2010

In the book I think it's even more clear, quin... Bella's all swoony over Alice, it's a little over the top at times.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 6:10 PM on July 1, 2010

The Whelk: 127 since your most recent comment

The hell people?

Yeah but most of that is people going TEAM THINGWITHVAMPIRESINITPOSSIBLY.
posted by bettafish at 6:15 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM TWISTED VAMPIRE HATE SEX!
posted by homunculus at 6:34 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM TWISTED VAMPIRE HATE SEX!

and I've now watched that scene three times.

what the fuck is wrong with me
posted by angrycat at 6:46 PM on July 1, 2010

what the fuck is wrong with me

Absolutely nothing.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:56 PM on July 1, 2010

People use narrative to escape reality. Film at 11.

Jesus, I'm starting to despise this little trope. Can we please have a moratorium on "film at 11"? It's the snidest variation on "whatever/who gives a fuck/who cares" I can imagine.
posted by jokeefe at 7:06 PM on July 1, 2010 [3 favorites]

I think that's the fourth meme that's been called out this week.
posted by Think_Long at 7:16 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM BIZARRO AM STAY!
posted by happyroach at 7:22 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM TWISTED VAMPIRE HATE SEX!

I may never type "rough sex" into a porn search engine again.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:26 PM on July 1, 2010

> TEAM SPARKLEPONIES

There's a supplementary $25 fee to join that team.
posted by Decimask at 7:28 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Team ThisThreadMakesMeLaughMyHeadOff.
Also, Team Ebert Brokeback.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:32 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM EDWARD James Olmos
posted by sephira at 7:48 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

srsly, what's the very brief version about why the girl can't go to college? Besides the plot being a steaming pile of mysoginistic loosely formed dog feces.
posted by angrycat at 7:48 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM IRRYLATH. (that's for you, sisquoc)
posted by ikahime at 7:50 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

what the fuck is wrong with me

You're a pervert, like the rest of us. Hey, we could all form a team...
posted by homunculus at 8:14 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM TEAMWORK

TEAM POSTED BY FUQ AT TEAM 11:XX ON TEAM JULY SQUAD ONE!
posted by fuq at 8:37 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM ZACHARY SIMMS
posted by Mizu at 9:06 PM on July 1, 2010

People use narrative to escape reality. Film at 11.

Jesus, I'm starting to despise this little trope.

I thought you were going to mention the other half of the comment, which is my pet peeve. Saying something is merely "escapism" does not mean it can't or shouldn't be analyzed or mocked. Escapist entertainment shapes culture just as much if not more than "serious" works.
posted by kmz at 10:19 PM on July 1, 2010

TEAM FRANKENBERRY
posted by fleacircus at 12:00 AM on July 2, 2010

TEAM THAT CHICK FROM LIFEFORCE THAT SPEND THE WHOLE DAMN MOVIE GALLIVANTING ABOUT BARE-ASS NEKKID. ALSO TEAM THE EXPLODING VAMPIRO-ZOMBIES FROM LIFEFORCE.


BAH!

TEAM THOSE TWO HOT NEKKID VAMPIRE DUDES IN LIFEFORCE THAT WERE KILLED AT THE BEGINNING FORCING US ALL TO WATCH A MOVIE ONLY WITH A NEKKID CHICK VAMPIRE

Most disappointing beginning to a movie, srsly.
posted by darkstar at 12:23 AM on July 2, 2010

TEAM THAT CHICK FROM LIFEFORCE THAT SPEND THE WHOLE DAMN MOVIE GALLIVANTING ABOUT BARE-ASS NEKKID. ALSO TEAM THE EXPLODING VAMPIRO-ZOMBIES FROM LIFEFORCE.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe

Yeah, I am at a friends computer and I had to log in just to give love to the lifeforce reference. That is the awesome badness that the movie requires.
posted by Carillon at 4:04 AM on July 2, 2010

That said, my problem with Twilight isn't that it's just trash. It's that it's morally repugnant, potentially damaging trash being spoon-fed to a generation of young girls to tell them that their identity is entirely tied to whatever man they choose and that abuse is the romantic ideal.

Yeah, just like all that straight/cis shit spoon-fed to legions of children, tweenagers, teenagers, kidults, and adults! Down with it all.

Twilight has its faults, absolutely, but I really don't see it as any more damaging than 90% of the rest of the crap the mainstream media shovels out. I'm an outsider to it all, but, oddly, Twilight charmed me.

*joins ukdanae in the Twilight corner*
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 5:01 AM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

In the book I think it's even more clear, quin... Bella's all swoony over Alice, it's a little over the top at times.

Are you guys maybe just doing that thing where I see two women having any conversation, but the filming is such that their faces are within 4" of each other and I yell, "THEY'RE TOTALLY GOING TO MAKE OUT!"* Because that's what it sounds like you're doing.

TEAM READING A LESBIAN SUBTEXT INTO THINGS

*_{This is what makes The L Word really exciting, because usually my accuracy is 10%. Watching The L Word makes that shit jump up to 90%, the extra 10% being when they almost kiss and then instead decide to talk about their boring boring feelings using incredibly poorly written dialogue.}
posted by edbles at 5:51 AM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM THOSE TWO HOT NEKKID VAMPIRE DUDES IN LIFEFORCE THAT WERE KILLED AT THE BEGINNING FORCING US ALL TO WATCH A MOVIE ONLY WITH A NEKKID CHICK VAMPIRE

I'm pretty sure that at least one of the hot nekkid vampire dudes survives the first few scenes -- he or they are busy vampirizing the population of London while Vampira does... something.

I think you're thinking of the guards that the space vampires drained in their excape from the space thingie place. They woke up, grew hungry for life force, and asploded.

Did you know it's based on a novel with the cleverly descriptive title "THE SPACE VAMPIRES"? It's true!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:01 AM on July 2, 2010

*joins ukdanae in the Twilight corner*

Yay! It was getting proper lonely over here!
posted by ukdanae at 6:28 AM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Being Human > Twilight.

TEAM RUSSELL TOVEY'S JUG EARS
posted by mippy at 7:22 AM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Jacob is fugly. Just... move on.

If they were going to get an attractive Native American actor, they could have done it, but didn't.

So much for good-looking NA werewolf boys.

Also , the situational weirdness of Edward's family preparing food for Bella in the first movie was remarkably uncomfortable. A high-light for the first 2 in the series. Haven't seen the 3rd yet.
posted by vhsiv at 7:25 AM on July 2, 2010

you.. what? I... really? But Lautner is.. I mean come on he is just.. smoking hot doesn't even come close.

I think it's possible you may be broken in the head. Those cheekbones, those gorgeous eyes, the smile, the dimples (!!!!) and the skin that doesn't even know the meaning of the word 'pimple'.

Not to mention his ridonkulous body and, ahem, other assets.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 7:35 AM on July 2, 2010

the skin that doesn't even know the meaning of the word 'pimple'.

We have this thing called makeup now.
posted by The Whelk at 7:39 AM on July 2, 2010

Not to mention his ridonkulous body and, ahem, other assets.

Does he own some bonds and valuable real estate or something?
posted by Think_Long at 7:39 AM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

A security-backed CD and offshore assets which allow him to live comfortably off the interest generated in HOTNESS
posted by The Whelk at 7:40 AM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

A security-backed CD and offshore assets which allow him to live comfortably off the interest generated in HOTNESS

High Optimum Trades and Northern Exchange Securities and Savings
posted by Think_Long at 7:49 AM on July 2, 2010

ROU, I may have to watch the first few scenes of LIFEFORCE again, just to check that out.

My take on twilight is pretty much my preferred read of most love triangles involving two dudes and a chick. Especially when the guys are hotties. Namely, in my fevered little brain, I like to believe the gal is there to provide mainstream social respectability and plausible deniability to what is really a raging gay slash subtext. NC17, Angst, H/C, etc., etc.

TEAM EBERT FTW
posted by darkstar at 9:00 AM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Did you know it's based on a novel with the cleverly descriptive title "THE SPACE VAMPIRES"? It's true!

Don't be messing with Colin Wilson!

I'm actually kind of curious as to what the book is like, as his Lovecraftian stuff is usualy pretty great. Apparently he wasn't much of a fan of the movie.
posted by Artw at 9:23 AM on July 2, 2010

TEAM BLIBDOOLPOOLP
posted by Artw at 9:25 AM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

TEAM THANK GOD LAUTNER IS 18 NOW SO I DON'T FEEL LIKE A PERV ANYMORE
posted by emeiji at 10:11 AM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

The Space Vampires is really, really New-agey and weird.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:19 AM on July 2, 2010

TEAM LLOIGOR
posted by Artw at 10:47 AM on July 2, 2010

Also Colin Wilson is really into occultism and it's not at all unlikely that the "transferring life energy" bits in The Space Vampires weren't totally meant to be fiction.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:50 AM on July 2, 2010

I'll confess that I've never read The Space Vampires, though the movie itself is pretty new-agey and weird too.

It's just the blandly descriptive title, is all. Like reading a book titled THE ATTACKING SHARK or THE OCEAN SHARK, or maybe THE UNDEAD ZOMBIE.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:54 AM on July 2, 2010

TEAM COUNT!

One!
Two!
Three!
FOUR! FOUR KNUCKLES! AH, AH, AH!
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:49 PM on July 2, 2010

Hmm... Team Edwardian or Team Jacobean? Both have pretty interesting collars.
posted by Eideteker at 1:03 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM DRAGOSANI AND THAT BIG FUCKER WHO'S BURIED IN THE GROUND AND TALKS LIKE BELA LUGOSI
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:26 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Why I Prefer 'Space Vampire' to 'Twilight'
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:26 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Navelgazer: " It's that it's morally repugnant, potentially damaging trash being spoon-fed to a generation of young girls to tell them that their identity is entirely tied to whatever man they choose and that abuse is the romantic ideal."

Don't like the books? Fine
Hate the movies? Fan-friggin-tastic.
Slag on either when you haven't read and/or seen them? Pathetic.

Yes, they are teenage fluff but the quote above is overstating their intent and impact. Overstating their impact in the same way that Frederic Wertham (Seduction of the Innocent) was convinced that comics caused juvenile delinquency and Tipper Gore was convinced that hearing bad language was warping the kids of America. Morally repugnant? Give me a break.

Next you'll be telling me that all of the movies that defined my high school career (Breakfast Club, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Valley Girl) spoon-fed me my romantic ideal. I loved those movies and fell madly in love with Judd Nelson, Sean Penn and Nicholas Cage. All of those characters have issues with authority, control, anger, violence blah, blah, blah and I'm sure my mom was worried that they were messing with my mind. Guess what...I didn't need movies to do that. I had raging hormones and that was all that was necessary.

P.S. Saw Eclipse today with my husband and thoroughly enjoyed it...but not as much as Twilight.
posted by victoriab at 2:59 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

It's that it's morally repugnant, potentially damaging trash being spoon-fed to a generation of young girls to tell them that their identity is entirely tied to whatever man they choose and that abuse is the romantic ideal.

This is the reason why whenever I encounter a presumably mature adult woman being all fangirly about the Twilight books and movies, I have to lower my eyes and suppress the urge to suggest they call Dr. Laura.

TEAM TWISTED VAMPIRE HATE SEX!

The link has been disabled but if that was what I think it was, there's another one here

TEAM BILL AND SAM SEXXY DREAM SEQUENCE AW YEAH

Yes, more please.

TEAM ERIC NORTHMAN THE SIX HOUR MAN
posted by fuse theorem at 6:54 PM on July 2, 2010 [5 favorites]

TEAM ESTONIAN STRIPPER I think you mean
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:00 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM JACK CROW!
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:22 PM on July 2, 2010

TEAM JACK DANIELS!

wait.
posted by The Whelk at 7:26 PM on July 2, 2010

TEAM JACK DANIELS!

wait.

No, go with that. It helps deal with all the sparkles.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:56 PM on July 2, 2010

fuse theorem: " This is the reason why whenever I encounter a presumably mature adult woman being all fangirly about the Twilight books and movies, I have to lower my eyes and suppress the urge to suggest they call Dr. Laura."

Please tell me you'd suggest a better therapist than Dr. Laura. That's just plain mean.
posted by victoriab at 8:19 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

TEAM ESTONIAN STRIPPER I think you mean

Nah, I don't swing that way, literally. But it was impressive how her fake boobs defied gravity while she was hanging there.

Please tell me you'd suggest a better therapist than Dr. Laura. That's just plain mean.

Yes, that was kinda the point.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:26 PM on July 2, 2010

TEAM DIONIN!
posted by homunculus at 8:32 PM on July 2, 2010

Actually, the Dr. Laura therapy suggestion kind of makes sense if you believe that these movies are really dangerous to young impressionable women. She'd be right on board with the need to control the inputs to make sure you don't get a "damaged" output. I just don't believe that these movies, or the witchcraft in the Harry Potter movies, or the voodoo in Disney's Princess and the Frog are really going to cause significant problems for 13-year old girls...or anyone else for that matter.
posted by victoriab at 8:55 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

TEAM KODOS

In all seriousness, I just started the first book this evening. I really wanted to see what all the hubbub was about. 55% in (thanks, Kindle for Mac), I have absolutely no idea. I've read fanfiction with better writing (and editing! omg), and it was actually about characters who were likeable and sympathetic. I'll probably stick it out until the end of book 1, but at this stage of the game I can't imagine paying for another of these books.

My husband is named Edward, though, so I'm thinking about getting a Team Edward shirt printed up with his photo on it and wearing it around the house.
posted by little light-giver at 12:38 AM on July 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

Wait, now i need therapy for liking Twilight? Are we on the green?
posted by ukdanae at 2:44 AM on July 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

Wait, now i need therapy for liking Twilight? Are we on the green?

DTTA
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 6:51 AM on July 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

Robert Pattinson looks like a bug and looks dirty and weird and very sick in real life, but he's always funny during interviews. Kristen Stewart is getting a mean case of manface only due to being overexposed on magazine covers and her surly expressions (but what celebrity doesn't eventually start looking ordinary and weird when you've seen them too much. Pattinson can't act at all.

The best part of those movies is Peter Facinelli.

Twilight is a lot better than Sweet Valley High or Gossip Girl or anything like that. It's not well written but who cares?
posted by anniecat at 8:58 AM on July 3, 2010

Pretty sure that one dude from Gossip Girl is actually a vampire.
posted by Artw at 9:24 AM on July 3, 2010