Okay the detail is a penis.

July 2, 2010 3:51 PM

Taylor Swift's hit video for "You Belong With Me" is not well loved, but the changing of a single detail turns it into the heartwarming teen romance it was meant to be.
posted by The Whelk (84 comments total)

My eyes are sweating.

...

Oh, why am I even trying to be cute. That made me cry, make involuntary happy jazz hands and squeal with delight at the same time. YAY.
posted by ocherdraco at 3:58 PM on July 2, 2010 [4 favorites]

Don't buy it. The gay guys I knew in high school had oceans more cool than the guy in that video.

More sex, too.

lucky bastards
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:02 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Aw, that was sweet. May our children grow up in an age where such a difference would be trivial.
posted by mccarty.tim at 4:07 PM on July 2, 2010

Also, I like how it subverts the weirdo social conservatism of country music.
posted by mccarty.tim at 4:08 PM on July 2, 2010 [8 favorites]

The second one was cute and quite well done. I hadn't seen the first one before - amused by the incredibly unsubtle "red dress/temptress" and "white dress/virgin" imagery in the dance scene.
posted by AdamCSnider at 4:12 PM on July 2, 2010

Lead comment on the "real" version: "FUC YEAHH FINALLY A SONG WITH MORE VIEWS THAN JUSTIN BIEBER".

Oh Internets: I LOVE YOU.
posted by The Bellman at 4:14 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

The acting in the new one is much better. The characters seem more like human beings, which is surprising because the Taylor Swift one probably cost a million dollars.

I have to say though, the Taylor Swift one has excellent shot selection.
posted by niccolo at 4:20 PM on July 2, 2010

The Bellman, the Internets has it out for Justin Bieber. Lately, they've been trying to send him to North Korea, since he decided to plan one stop on his world tour by popular internet vote with multiple votes allowed. If you want to vote him elsewhere, as I'm sure you all do, vote here.

MeFites love Bieber as hard as Gaga, right?
posted by mccarty.tim at 4:24 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

In my version of this song the protagonist was a creepy stalker. I like re-imagining details of pop songs to make them more interesting. For example in the in-my-head version of Kelly Clarkson's "Behind these hazel eyes" she is singing from the perspective of a woman who was beaten into a coma by her abusive boyfriend/husband. ("Now I can't breathe / No, I can't sleep / I'm barely hanging on..") It amuses me to turn the lyrics into literal descriptions instead from abstract imagery. Rihanna's song "Disturbia" was about schizophrenia. I can't think of any more examples right now.
posted by amethysts at 4:29 PM on July 2, 2010 [12 favorites]

Indeed, the "creepy stalker fantasy" vibe I got from the original is much reduced in this version. The social pressures of dealing with sexual identity just make the same-sex version of the story more plausible as a genuine romance to me.
posted by yeolcoatl at 4:42 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

In my version of this song the protagonist was a creepy stalker. I like re-imagining details of pop songs to make them more interesting. ... I can't think of any more examples right now.

Every Breath You Take was not considered at the time to be about a stalker, but Sting has said in several subsequent interviews that the interpretation occurred to him while they were recording it.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:48 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

I think this is the first time I remember clicking through and then noticing the title and managing to actually get ice cream up my nose.

It's cute with boys. But I'm holding out for a version with girls.
posted by gracedissolved at 4:50 PM on July 2, 2010

even better?
posted by yeolcoatl at 4:51 PM on July 2, 2010 [3 favorites]

ah but gracedissolved , that would require changing the lyrics, the wonderful thing about this (to me) is that you only need to change the gender of the song's protag and suddenly the entire video makes sense as opposed to be being some bizzaro world where a cute blond girl is a social outcast cause she's all virginal and "nice".
posted by The Whelk at 4:53 PM on July 2, 2010 [7 favorites]

For starters, a version that seriously doesn't suck.

As for the "improved" version... Would we still applaud it if the "detail" had gone the other way? I find it odd to see this described as heartwarming, while "we" describe Katy Perry as homoexploitive trash.
posted by pla at 5:00 PM on July 2, 2010 [5 favorites]

sbutler makes a strong case for turning it into a lesbian love song.
posted by piratebowling at 5:05 PM on July 2, 2010

There's also this redub, arguably a take on Justin Bieber's androgyny
posted by rollick at 5:09 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

And one of the more recent pop song remakes: California Gays' version of Katy Perry's 'California Gurls.'
posted by ericb at 5:11 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

Well, yes, okay, it would require changing. But this version requires buying that the guy in question is a soprano. ;)

All the versions in my head require changing. Like the version of Bride Wars in my head that's a lesbian romantic comedy, and remains that way since I've refused to watch anything but the trailer. It's way, way better than the original.
posted by gracedissolved at 5:14 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Also, I like how it subverts the weirdo social conservatism of country music horrible mainstream Nashville crap.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:15 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

Ever since I read sbutler's comment, I've wanted to see the lesbian You Belong With Me.

On alternate song interpretations, At Last by Etta Joyce is totally about a woman who plans to commit murder/suicide.
posted by nooneyouknow at 5:48 PM on July 2, 2010

I'm going to be a little nitpicky, but this is something that always bothers me.

I didn't like the decision to villainize the woman in the guy/guy version (e.g., the scene where she is paying attention to the third guy.)

Someone can be wrong for someone else without being a Bad Person, and it's too common a trope when they are.

He should want to be with the other guy because he loves *him*, not because he hates *her*, damn it.

Other than that, cool idea.
posted by kyrademon at 5:49 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

(To continue to villainize the woman, I probably should have said.)
posted by kyrademon at 6:03 PM on July 2, 2010

I mean it could still be about girls. The "desired" character could be a girl who is currently dating a girl. She's just dating a hot girl right now. Her best friend is just too shy to tell her she's gay. Or maybe she has already rejected her best friend's advances because she wants to date the hot cheerleader.
posted by amethysts at 6:05 PM on July 2, 2010

Please tell me not every high school is so bizarrely conservative as to make high-school dating lesbians an unimaginable rarity? I know there were at least some when I was there but I went to a pretty liberal school where the track team was the sports stars and there were no divisions along athelete/nerd or racial lines either.
posted by amethysts at 6:10 PM on July 2, 2010

I'm hoping that someday homosexuality becomes mainstream enough that this story is rightly considered cheesy no matter what genders are involved.
posted by BrotherCaine at 6:15 PM on July 2, 2010 [9 favorites]

Amethysts -- there certainly are schools where that could happen, but a girl/girl/girl scenario would probably have the same creepy stalkerish vibe of the original. The idea that one of the three is closeted or unaware of his orientation is the only thing that changes it from dumping-someone-for-the-stalker to the realizing-your-true-feelings-all-along that the original tried for and failed to achieve.
posted by kyrademon at 6:15 PM on July 2, 2010

In my version of this song the protagonist was a creepy stalker.

I'm with amethysts. I don't see how someone can sing "You were meant for me" and NOT fall into the role of creepy stalker.

Imagine a version where it's sung by a skeevy unkempt man in his mid-40s, who's addressing adorable vulnerable pretty blond ingenue Taylor Swift. See what I mean?

Just 'cause it's sung by an adorable vulnerable pretty blond ingenue, that doesn't mean it's not "restraining order-worthy."
posted by ErikaB at 6:18 PM on July 2, 2010 [3 favorites]

Every Breath You Take was not considered at the time to be about a stalker, but Sting has said in several subsequent interviews that the interpretation occurred to him while they were recording it.

Funny, I never thought it was about anything other than a stalker at that time.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 6:18 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Would we still applaud it if the "detail" had gone the other way? I find it odd to see this described as heartwarming, while "we" describe Katy Perry as homoexploitive trash.

OK, but surely there's a big difference between this amateur youtube re-imagining of a dippy, sincere teenage love story, and a straight major label artist, whose other songs accuse her boyfriends of "pms[ing] like a bitch" and being "so gay", singing about drunkenly making out with some strange "experimental game" of a woman (even though of course it's "not what good girls do"), even as the song's chorus ("hope my boyfriend don't mind it") winkingly reminds listeners to imagine the whole scene getting a man's attention. Because that's what lesbianism is all about.

I doubt anybody would have a problem with a girl/girl version of this project, though as The Whelk pointed out the lyrics wouldn't work as well.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 6:18 PM on July 2, 2010 [7 favorites]

The second one is great, but I don't see a problem with the first one.

where a cute blond girl is a social outcast cause she's all virginal and "nice".

She's clearly not a social outcast, just a band-geek in love with the football player guy-next-door. There have been SO MANY films about the nerdy guy in love with the girl-next-door cheerleader, I liked seeing it turned around. As for hair color - what, since she's blonde she should automatically be popular? That's such a huge trope already.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 6:27 PM on July 2, 2010

a skeevy unkempt man in his mid-40s

Why so down on youth?
posted by Jimmy Havok at 6:37 PM on July 2, 2010

What is wrong with the first one is this:

Clothes do not make women who they are.

We do, in fact, have more things that make us attractive (or not) than our choice of footwear or extracurricular activity.

Using "she wears short skirts" as a sort of synecdoche for "she is a certain type of person that you shouldn't date" sucks.

Also, those of us who were cheerleaders and wore high heels don't appreciate being the bad guy in every effing "nerd makes good" piece of media ever.

(I was not actually a cheerleader, I just empathize with them as the targets of a lot of stereotypes, often misogynistic ones).
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 6:53 PM on July 2, 2010 [10 favorites]

It's pride weekend in Toronto, so I loved the second one even more than I would have normally. Thanks for this!
posted by dnesan at 7:03 PM on July 2, 2010

Why so down on youth?
posted by Jimmy Havok at 6:37 PM on July 2 [+] [!]

Didn't mean to step on any toes - I'm pushing 40 myself - I just wanted to drop in a significant age differential to make it even creepier and more obviously inappropriate.
posted by ErikaB at 7:10 PM on July 2, 2010

sooo many alternate ending ideas:

the mean girlfriend flips over a sign saying "but i'm a guy, too" and everyone is confused.
after the reciprocated "i love you" sign, the crusher flips his over to say "but not in that way" and shrugs.
the mean girlfriend dumps a drink on crusher guy, who starts shooting sparks from his mouth. the access panel on his chest flies off and it's reveled that HE IS A ROBOT
tiny x-wing fighters blow up the mirrorball, and inch-tall ewoks on the ground do a happy dance. everyone is confused.
posted by camdan at 7:14 PM on July 2, 2010 [18 favorites]

the mean girlfriend flips over a sign saying "but i'm a guy, too" and everyone is confused.
after the reciprocated "i love you" sign, the crusher flips his over to say "but not in that way" and shrugs.
the mean girlfriend dumps a drink on crusher guy, who starts shooting sparks from his mouth. the access panel on his chest flies off and it's reveled that HE IS A ROBOT
tiny x-wing fighters blow up the mirrorball, and inch-tall ewoks on the ground do a happy dance. everyone is confused.

I choose (E) All Of The Above.
posted by The Whelk at 7:22 PM on July 2, 2010 [3 favorites]

Pan back farther and we learn that it's all been a clever enchantment to convince us to linger in Jareth's kingdom just a leetle bit longer.

EVERYTHING I'VE DONE, I'VE DONE FOR YOU. I MOVE THE STARS FOR NO ONE.
posted by ErikaB at 7:30 PM on July 2, 2010 [5 favorites]

internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 : We do, in fact, have more things that make us attractive (or not) than our choice of footwear or extracurricular activity.

Yes. Yes, you DO! Which makes it all the more true that:


"she wears short skirts" as a sort of synecdoche for "she is a certain type of person that you shouldn't date"

Everytime someone defends cheerleading as a legitimate "sport", they demean women. Would a male "scantily-clad pelvic-thrust squad" count as a sport? Hey, it probably burns a lot of calories, and no doubt we could find a way to make it require some degree of coordination, why not?

Gymnastics - sport. Pole-vaulting - Sport. 100m dash - Sport. Dressing in clothes so tight you need a Brazilian just to maintain your modesty, then posing in ways that still leaves little to the imagination - Self imposed objectification, simple as that. Pole-dancing can really tone you up; so can yoga. One of those doesn't scream "whore in training", and you have to try really hard to pick the "wrong" one if you don't want to send a message.
posted by pla at 7:31 PM on July 2, 2010 [3 favorites]

AS THE SNARK FALLS DOWN. ..FALLING FALLING
posted by The Whelk at 7:32 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Wait, Taylor Swift has a penis?
posted by longsleeves at 7:49 PM on July 2, 2010

Everytime someone defends cheerleading as a legitimate "sport", they demean women. Would a male "scantily-clad pelvic-thrust squad" count as a sport? Hey, it probably burns a lot of calories, and no doubt we could find a way to make it require some degree of coordination, why not?

Yeah, all they do is pelvic thrusts! All they do is look slutty and dance around. And only stupid people would even debate whether it's a sport or not.

Also, the pretty girls never looked at me in high school because they were only attracted to jerks and they never really understood my Morrisey inspired poetry or Becky Carville would totally have dated me instead of that prick Lester Monstroso
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:52 PM on July 2, 2010 [4 favorites]

Not to derail from the original topic of this thread, but the back-to-back comparison of the sparse, hesitant "metal" arrangement (which also isolates her vocal from the original arrangement, no more vocal tripling and such) reveals her to be a much better singer -- and the song to be a much better song -- than the original does. In fact, in that context, look at her wide-leg unflinching metal stance, her quick, broad swings of the mic stand...I...I actually have some respect for her now as a performer.

I think there's a lesson here, at least for me: even decent singing, stage and songwriting skills can be destroyed and assimilated by the industry machine for mass consumption, or teased into something even greater by an independent producer going for entertainment instead of profits.

It's like the Chicken McNugget vs the [insert your favorite chicken dish here] -- at the end of the day, it's just chicken, and you get from it what you make from it.
posted by davejay at 7:56 PM on July 2, 2010

Taylor Swift may or may not taste like chicken. This is tangential to my point.
posted by davejay at 7:58 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

Lester Monstroso? That's not a person, that's a Disney villain.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:38 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

She's clearly not a social outcast, just a band-geek in love with the football player guy-next-door. There have been SO MANY films about the nerdy guy in love with the girl-next-door cheerleader, I liked seeing it turned around.

And they're just as lame, shitty and borderline creepy as Swift's retarded song/video.

The majority of these stories they have no knowledge of what the love interest is really like. They just have a shallow crush and think that the substance in a person will just be there because they really, really want it to be true. Sometimes this can happen and it does surprise you (i.e. Warren pursuing Jessica in Ed and finding out she's a huge nerd for Harry Potter) but without knowing if they do have any common interests and pursuing them you might as well be as shallow as they are.

It took me a long time (too long) to learn this was a bad way to look at relationships because if you aren't the best looking guy (I'm not) you repeatedly get burnt by them and quickly become bitter. As much as I like my 80s teen coming of age movies as a guilty, nostalgic indulgence, I'd slap John Hughes (rest his soul) given the chance for warping my relationship compass so badly by those fucked up stereotypical geek characters. I wasted 5 years of high school being that archtypical geek to girls I had a crush on when I should have just found people with common interests a reasonable amount of attraction and built relationships from there.

Sadly, hardly anybody ever teaches or portrays sensibility in relationships like that. It's just not, for lack of a better word, Hollywood enough I suppose.
posted by Talez at 8:39 PM on July 2, 2010 [3 favorites]

"Would a male "scantily-clad pelvic-thrust squad" count as a sport? "

I played football and it made even less sense to learn how to hit people and catch oddly-shaped balls than it did to learn how to dance and be comfortable performing in front of large groups of people.

But, PEOPLE WITH PENISES DO IT

SPORTS

Also, if males want to do cheerleading in the same scantily-cladness as females, I am 100% pro.
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 8:45 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

...but the changing of a single detail turns it into the heartwarming teen romance it was meant to be.

It's true. Baseball is so much more dignified than football.

Happy Pride, everybody!
posted by bicyclefish at 8:50 PM on July 2, 2010

I was really hoping for the ending to be that the glasses-less guy would have a sign saying "I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO KEEP THIS ON THE DL :("
posted by Subcommandante Cheese at 9:05 PM on July 2, 2010 [4 favorites]

The majority of these stories they have no knowledge of what the love interest is really like. They just have a shallow crush and think that the substance in a person will just be there because they really, really want it to be true.

Every pop song is about a disfunctional relationship. Why? Ask Leo Tolstoy:

Every happy family is the same, but unhappy families are all different.

The same thing applies to relationships, the screwed up ones are a lot more interesting than the sane ones. Getting it out listening to a pop song is a lot better than actually stalking that too-cute girl or boy who won't even look at you.
posted by Jimmy Havok at 9:10 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

holy fuck.
posted by special-k at 9:44 PM on July 2, 2010

So, he no longer has to wait at the back door? Good for him.

But that "you belong to me" language needs to go away. Maybe "we belong together" would work, but I don't want anybody saying "you belong to me, you belong to me."
posted by pracowity at 9:47 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

Not that I want to defend this song very much but I think the actual lyric is "You belong with me" not "to me".
posted by amethysts at 9:55 PM on July 2, 2010

The original song always always made me think about pegging.

Because of the back door stuff.

:)
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 10:19 PM on July 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
posted by ovvl at 10:22 PM on July 2, 2010

Not much to add, except: ha! this was made at my school!
posted by i_am_a_fiesta at 10:24 PM on July 2, 2010

whatev, Every Breathe You Take, You Belong With Me, etc.., they are all doing a remake of Cole Porter's Night and Day.

Which is a much better song that Robot Swift will ever release.
posted by Dagobert at 10:36 PM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think the actual lyric is "You belong with me" not "to me".

Oh, dear. You're right. I misheard it.
posted by pracowity at 11:47 PM on July 2, 2010

(It's surprising, the crap you find yourself writing about here.)
posted by pracowity at 11:47 PM on July 2, 2010

Using "she wears short skirts" as a sort of synecdoche for "she is a certain type of person that you shouldn't date" sucks.

She's pointing out the differences in that "I am a band geek and thus not conventional and perhaps not the type of girl you'd usually look at", which, realistically, is an assumption a teen might make about a crush because often teens have self doubt and paint things with broad strokes. Eventually we learn nuances, but that takes more emotional maturity in the end.

The stuff of teenage crushes when you're lacking confidence and questioning everything, and also often blind to half the things around you.

I remember liking this guy for a while and being this shy, geeky girl never thought he could ever like someone like me. My sixteen year old self was thus tormented for several months before finding out that--guess what --he did.

It's not necessarily saying that clothes make the personality. However, yes, the video does use stupid madonna-whore visuals. It's lazy that way.

But the song is pretty cute as it is.
posted by cmgonzalez at 12:50 AM on July 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

I was expecting the twist to be that they had 'shopped her glasses back on in the prom scene.
posted by Iteki at 3:14 AM on July 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

This sounds just like the music that plays during the part of the movie where…

• they dress the ugly person in a series of alternating cool / silly outfits, ultimately settling on the cool outfit that will win the heart of the target-o-adoration
• decide to work together to fix that darned boat with lots of paint & mopping & sweat & hard work
• study their brains out for the Big Exam the next day, taking occasional breaks to play short practical jokes on each other
• &c.

The sad thing is, while this kind of empty-headed, vapid music has long been the mainstay of direct-to-VHS teen movies, I never thought it would become the overriding music presence on the fucking radio. I mean, christ.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:21 AM on July 3, 2010

I always liked OMG by Usher because it sounds like a parody of shitty pop music. When I first heard it, I thought the DJ was playing a novelty song.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:21 AM on July 3, 2010

"It's not necessarily saying that clothes make the personality. However, yes, the video does use stupid madonna-whore visuals. It's lazy that way."

This is one of those situations where I don't really dislike the song's message in a cultural vacuum. High school girls are weird about stuff like this, it's from that perspective, fair enough.

Place it into cultural context as a song that is heavily promoted without a touch of irony and it contributes to:

1. Capitalism! What you buy/wear makes you a certain type of person (this is the worst part about it)
2. Sexism! Women can dress sexy OR be cool/down to earth/smart/good sense of humor.
3. The notion that there is one true love and/or that people are destined to be together
4. Crazy beauty norms that see Taylor Swift as potentially un-noticable because she wears glasses
5. The idea that you earn love...this is the nice guy syndrome in girl form


And, that is what is wrong with it.

That doesn't mean people can't enjoy it, I mean, damn, I listen to some sexist, obnoxious shit, so no judgment here. But it's not benign.
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 8:09 AM on July 3, 2010 [2 favorites]

I saw this a while ago and didn't really like it then either. I really don't see how this video is any better? It still hints at slut shaming and villainizing the girl friend. But now not only do we need to believe the protagonist can win the heart of the object of desire by being sincere and pure, we also have to believe that can change the object of desire's sexuality.

How would people react if we made the video so Taylor was in her original role but trying to lure the OoD from his boy friend?

Really the song is mostly a crappy love song that is being over analyzed, lots of teen love songs are just as bad really. Three dimensional characters with fully explored complex emotions ending in an imperfect resolution to their love triangle does not make for good pop songs.
posted by MrBobaFett at 8:26 AM on July 3, 2010

Good grief, it's a song about high schoolers written in the voice of someone 15-18 and their point of view (hence 'demonizing' the short-skirt-wearing appearing to be cheating cheerleader). It's cute fluff about puppy love, boy/girl, boy/boy or otherwise.
posted by variella at 9:51 AM on July 3, 2010

Sorry but a PS: I see her wearing the glasses as her hiding herself, not as 'girls with glasses are unattractive'. It's when she stops hiding in her room and behind the glasses, stands up straight, and acts like herself that she becomes attractive.
posted by variella at 9:53 AM on July 3, 2010

I don't think media gets a pass from criticism or analysis just because it's aimed at a younger or more naive group of people.

If anything, we should be more critical of it because it's aimed and marketed towards younger people.
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 10:24 AM on July 3, 2010 [4 favorites]

variella, the problem with that is the two choices it leaves someone like me with: stop hiding, act like myself, &c, or be able to see anything further than a foot from my face clearly. I'd like to think I can manage both, at least on a good day.
posted by Dysk at 10:28 AM on July 3, 2010

Pole-dancing can really tone you up; so can yoga.

Having done both, pole dancing is more fun. But thanks for calling me a whore in training because I enjoy whipping around a metal pole more than mumbling in hindu while hyperventilating and falling over from poorly done, painfully slow side planks.

I'm also in the camp that is dead tired of "Bitchy head cheerleader is evil! Virgin nerd just needs to dress pretty and will out compete high status woman!"

All this gave me some really funny ideas about what high school was like. I was honestly under the impression I had to get a crush on the captain of the football team, even though I didn't have the foggiest idea who he was.
posted by Phalene at 2:25 PM on July 3, 2010

Three dimensional characters with fully explored complex emotions ending in an imperfect resolution to their love triangle does not make for good pop songs.

Too many verses.
posted by Jimmy Havok at 10:11 PM on July 3, 2010

Joey Michaels: "Also, the pretty girls never looked at me in high school because they were only attracted to jerks and they never really understood my Morrisey inspired poetry or Becky Carville would totally have dated me instead of that prick Lester Monstroso"

This is basically the plot of every 90s film advertised at kids. Can we blame teenage guys if they end up thinking it's their Duty As Men^© to rescue Becky Carville?
posted by anonymuk at 10:15 PM on July 3, 2010

Can we blame teenage guys if they end up thinking it's their Duty As Men© to rescue Becky Carville?

We should have known that if it was too good to be true it probably was. We wanted to believe it was possible.
posted by Talez at 5:37 AM on July 4, 2010

"waiting at your back door" is going on a t-shirt.

Also, +1 to IFDS,S#9, for the itemized list of what is f*cked with the tropes in these music videos (the boy/boy one is still f*cked, but is progressive enough to project heterosexual adolescent psychodrama on same-sex couples, which is fair game).
posted by LMGM at 10:07 PM on July 4, 2010

why am I self-censoring? Fucked. Fuckity fuck fuck. There, much better.
posted by LMGM at 10:08 PM on July 4, 2010

This is basically the plot of every 90s film advertised at kids. Can we blame teenage guys if they end up thinking it's their Duty As Men© to rescue Becky Carville?

There's a kick ass link somewhere about why nice guys are, in fact, not confident and kind of creepy and arrogant in this regard that I'd meant to link with my comment to reinforce the sarcasm. I can't find it though. Alas.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:18 AM on July 5, 2010

Joey Michaels: "There's a kick ass link somewhere about why nice guys are, in fact, not confident and kind of creepy and arrogant in this regard"

Yeah and I don't disagree with any of that. This Onion article pretty much sums it up. When I think of nice guys, I think "desperate and depressed" rather than "cold and calculating."
posted by anonymuk at 8:24 AM on July 5, 2010

"whore in training"

... what?
posted by ServSci at 8:57 AM on July 5, 2010

I feel like misogyny would be cut by at least a third if the sports culture in US high schools was spun off into club sports like in Europe. At least then, if the misogynistic culture continues, participation therein is voluntary.

(It's an arguably anecdotal point, but the hockey players in my high school, who played for a town-wide team in an amateur league, were far more respectful and studious than the football players, even with the rowdiness of their fans and their large legion of groupies).
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 1:06 PM on July 5, 2010

There's a kick ass link somewhere about why nice guys are, in fact, not confident and kind of creepy and arrogant in this regard that I'd meant to link with my comment to reinforce the sarcasm. I can't find it though. Alas.

I'll summarize it for you: Because they're usually not good looking enough to have the initial attraction that makes the attention wanted rather. It becomes unwanted attention that makes it creepy.
posted by Talez at 11:44 PM on July 5, 2010

FYI for anyone who wants to be a whore--don't listen to PLA--pole dancing is a waste of your character points. It's designed for the stripper class. Duh.
posted by internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 at 8:10 AM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]

Talez, are you serious? or is that some ironic "misogyny"?

Sorry, I don't seem to be able to contribute much beyond disbelief to this conversation.

So far, women who display any sexuality are whores-in-training (from pla re: teenage girls' clothing and behaviour when cheerleading) and now, the problem with the creepy unwanted attention from false "nice guys" is that the guy's not handsome enough and if he were hot, the inappropriate behaviour would be welcome.

which is a joke Talez is making, I think, right?
posted by ServSci at 9:05 AM on July 6, 2010

The idea that Taylor Swift is the nerdy outcast girl just wrecks my suspension of disbelief. I'll take the repressed homo version any day of the week, thankyouverymuch.

Also, when did Taylor Swift ever go to high school? I thought she was in Special Nashville Star Touring "Tutoring" since puberty.
posted by norm at 9:23 AM on July 6, 2010

Talez, are you serious?

http://www.springerlink.com/content/87318868j0881535/

-- "Results mirror the sexual harassment literature and suggest that harassment by younger and attractive men is viewed as less harassing."

http://www.swpsych.org/conv_program_abstract.php?id=120

-- "Results of the analyses indicated that there was a significant main effect of age, in which harassment by older perpetrators was seen as less tolerable and was associated with more anger. There was also a main effect of physical attractiveness, where harassment by attractive men was seen as more tolerable and less likely to cause anger than less attractive perpetrators."

It seems that women, either unconsciously or consciously, appear to base their definition of a threat on how attractive that threat is.

I love women. I love being in a relationship. But if it's unwanted because I'm unattractive it's still unwanted. That doesn't mean I hate women if I've come to realise this and even if I did hate women it wouldn't change the situation anyway. Should I have to go through life hitting on women like other guys coming off creepy to prove that I don't hate women?
posted by Talez at 5:46 PM on July 6, 2010