"On September 11, 2001, thousands of first responders heroically rushed to the scene and saved tens of thousands of lives. More than 400 of those first responders did not make it out alive. In rushing into those burning buildings, not one of them asked 'What God do you pray to?' 'What beliefs do you hold?'"New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has recently defended the planned Cordoba Initiative Islamic Community Center and Mosque to be built near Ground Zero against critics. Yesterday, after the City’s Landmarks Preservation Commission voted to allow the demolition of a building that would be replaced by the center, Mr. Bloomberg gave a speech on Governor's Island (the location seems to have been deliberately chosen) in which he eloquently defended religious freedom. (YT: Video) (Previously on MeFi)
Freedom of religion is a good thing and the center should be built. But make no mistake, enemies of modernism (i.e., ignorant tribesmen in far off lands whose world-view is very unlike Westerners) will perceive this as a win for their brand of Islam.Correct me if I'm wrong, but if one group of people thinks they've won, and the other group of people thinks they've won... isn't that called a "win-win?"
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,posted by ericb at 9:45 AM on August 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Hot female host with a good sense of humor based in NYC? I nominate Pamela.-- Michelle Malkinenough said.
Along with the Human Rights Watch, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) observed that prior to 9/11, forty-eight hate crimes against Muslim-Americas were reported in the United States, but in the days following the attacks, that figure skyrocketed to 481. Reported incidents of discrimination, harassment, and violence against Muslims amounted to 602 in 2002, 1,019 in 2004, 1,522 in 2004, 1,972 in 2005, and 2,467 in 2006. The context of these hate crimes and incidents consist of murders, physical and verbal assaults, and numerous cases of vandalism directed towards Mosques, convenience stores owned by Muslims, and homes. Many reports included these same hate crimes and discriminatory acts towards non-Muslim South Asians and Middle-Easterners as well.Not mentioned: in at least two or three incidents, Sikhs (who aren't even Muslim!!!) were beaten by angry New Yorkers in the days following 9/11. I watched those reports on the local news here.
Four days after 9/11, Mark Stroman entered a grocery store in Dallas, Texas, and shot and killed Waquar Hassan, a forty-six-year-old Pakistani father of four. Unfounded by the police, Stroman entered a convenience store in Mesquite, Texas less than a month later, and murdered Vasudev Patel, a non-Muslim Indian father of two. Stroman was finally arrested, and before being convicted and sentenced to death, he stated in an interview: “We’re at war. I did what I had to do. I did it to retaliate against those who retaliated against us.”
The next year, a man named Frank Roque boasted at a local bar that he was going to “kill the ragheads responsible for September 11th.” A few days later he shot and killed Balbir Singh Sodi, a forty-nine-year old father of three. When arrested for murder, Roque declared: “I stand for America all the way! I’m an American. Go ahead. Arrest me and let those terrorists run wild.” Little did Roque know that the turbaned man he killed was not an Arab or a Muslim, but an Indian Sikh.
Other incidents in the immediate days and months following 9/11 included attempted murder upon a Palestinian male who was shot at after leaving his Mosque in Seattle, a Pakistani woman who was nearly run over by a car in the parking lot of a New York mall, and an American Muslim women who was nearly choked to death by her attacker in Texas.
You know, the people who generalize that all Republicans are ignorant, hateful, bigoted racists who hate liberty and freedom aren't really any better than the people who generalize that all Muslims are American-hating potential terrorists.Then, resiny, I'm sure you can link to just one comment anywhere on Metafilter in which anyone asserts, or even implies, that "all Republicans are ignorant, hateful, bigoted racists who hate liberty and freedom". Right?
I'm referring to people here who routinely make sweeping generalizations about conservatives
New York City voters oppose 52 - 31 percent a proposal by a Muslim group to build a mosque and cultural center two blocks from Ground Zero, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released [July 1]. Another 17 percent are undecided.Oddly New York City voters have been to New York City.
Balbir Singh Sodhi was gunned down on Sept. 15, 2001 in Mesa, Arizona. The turban-wearing Sikh was killed outside his gas station. Sodhi's killer spent the hours before the murder in a bar, bragging of his intention to "kill the ragheads responsible for September 11." He has been convicted and sits on death row.Just this summer: CA Mosque vandalized
Waqar Hasan of Dallas, Texas was also murdered on Sept. 15, 2001. The 46-year-old Pakistani, was shot to death in a convenience store he owned. Hasan was murdered by Mark Stroman, who was convicted of also murdering Vasudev Patel days later in nearby Mesquite, Texas.
Cordell noted that Stroman admitted to authorities to blinding a third victim, a Bangladeshi, in between the murders of Hasan and Patel. After his arrest Stroman bragged, "I did what every American wanted to do after Sept. 11th but didn't have the nerve."
Also, you know what else is within two blocks of Ground Zero? Just about everything, including Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant Churches, a synagogue, a Buddhist temple, and even a Chicago-style pizza joint.That's just so wrong.
As an American, a Republican leader, and a practicing Muslim, the issue of building a mosque near New York's Ground Zero is of natural interest to me. For the record, I deeply support building this mosque. To my fellow conservative leaders who say they are against this project, yet claim to not be bigoted, I have news for you: you are a bigot.But yeah, that's all I could find.
The name Cordoba House, though, is particularly fitting -- an evocation of the rich interactions of Christians, Muslims and Jews in Medieval Spain. Medieval Spain was not often a paradise of tolerance and peace. But where peoples lived together, the understanding spawned by that coexistence gave the lie to the notion that Muslims, Jews and Christians must by nature be opposed, and created a more cohesive, fecund, peaceful and plural society.I haven't done deep research on this, so maybe others have more information.
Er heerste weliswaar 'gewetensvrijheid', maar godsdienstvrijheid was alleen weggelegd voor de calvinistische Gereformeerde kerk. Verder konden alleen buitenlanders en als buitenlanders beschouwde personen, zoals de Joden, hun godsdienst vrij uitoefenen. Nederlanders werden geacht over te gaan tot de Gereformeerde kerk.Basically (as far as my understanding of Dutch will take me) Dutch citizens were only allowed to worship in the Calvinist church, while them dirty furriners - a.k.a. Jews - were left to do as they pleased. Lutherans, Catholics, Remonstrants and Mennonites were reduced to worshipping in these stealth churches.
I have no problem with the building of this place at that site. I do though like for my own satisfaction of mind like to look at what those opposed--not the nujtters but rational people--have to say in opposition. So here:
http://www.nationalre…..arthyhttp://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/07/terror-finded-ground-zero-mosque-imam-raufs-bin-laden-link.html
I would be surprised if he [bloomberg] didn't make an attempt in 2012.The billionaire ex-wallstreeter, eponymous founder of Bloomberg news? That would be... entertaining, in this environment.
From what Bin Laden has said over the years, he seems to have at least three distinct 'issues' with the United States
America is hated and attacked because Muslims believe they know precisely what the United States is doing in the Islamic world. They know partly because of Osama bin Laden's words, partly because of satellite television, but mostly because of the tangible reality of U.S. policies. We are at war with an al Qaeda-led, worldwide Islamic insurgency to defend those policies -- and not, as President Bush mistakenly has said, "to defend freedom and all that is good and just in the world."Bin Laden has repeatedly cited liberating Palestine as a reason for declaring war on the US. A two-state solution with strong guarantees of both states' security would be in the national security interest of the United States.
Keep in mind how easy it is for Muslims to hate the six U.S. policies bin Laden repeatedly refers to as anti-Muslim:
- U.S. support for Israel that keeps Palestinians in the Israelis' thrall.
- U.S. and other Western troops on the Arabian Peninsula.
- U.S. occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.
- U.S. support for Russia, India and China against their Muslim militants.
- U.S. pressure on Arab energy producers to keep oil prices low.
- U.S. support for apostate, corrupt and tyrannical Muslim governments.
18. Do you support or oppose the proposal to build the Cordoba House, a 15 story Muslim Cultural Center in lower Manhattan 2 blocks from the site of the World Trade Center?
Region
Residents Voters NYC Subs Upst
Support 26% 27% 33% 21% 21%
Oppose 61% 61% 56% 66% 64%
Don't know/Refused 13% 12% 12% 13% 15%The ADL’s mission statement says it seeks “to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens.” But Abraham Foxman, the head of the ADL, explained that we must all respect the feelings of the 9/11 families, even if they are prejudiced feelings. “Their anguish entitles them to positions that others would categorize as irrational or bigoted,” he said. First, the 9/11 families have mixed views on this mosque. There were, after all, dozens of Muslims killed at the World Trade Center. Do their feelings count? But more important, does Foxman believe that bigotry is OK if people think they’re victims? Does the anguish of Palestinians, then, entitle them to be anti-Semitic?posted by Jaltcoh at 7:25 PM on August 6, 2010 [8 favorites]
Five years ago, the ADL honored me with its Hubert H. Humphrey First Amendment Freedoms Prize. I was thrilled to get the award from an organization that I had long admired. But I cannot in good conscience keep it anymore. I have returned both the handsome plaque and the $10,000 honorarium that came with it. I urge the ADL to reverse its decision. Admitting an error is a small price to pay to regain a reputation.
Pastor Terry Jones: Why I'm Burning Qu'rans on 9/11.posted by ericb at 2:57 PM on August 9, 2010
What makes this particularly commendable is there is virtually no political gain to be had from doing it, and substantial political risk. Polls shows overwhelming opposition to the mosque nationwide (close to 70% opposed), and that's true even in New York, where an extraordinary "50% of Democrats, 74% of Republicans, and 52% of 'non-enrolled' voters, don't want to see the mosque built." The White House originally indicated it would refrain from involving itself in the dispute, and there was little pressure or controversy over that decision. There was little anger over the President's silence even among liberal critics. And given the standard attacks directed at Obama -- everything from being "soft on Terror" to being a hidden Muslim -- choosing this issue on which to take a very politically unpopular and controversial stand is commendable in the extreme.posted by homunculus at 11:37 AM on August 14, 2010
"...I cannot help feeling that if we block this mosque we will not only be doing what Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh want, we will also be doing exactly what Osama Bin Laden wants.posted by ericb at 2:25 PM on August 16, 2010
On the day it murdered Mychal and Pat and Terry and Dennis and so many others, Al Qaeda was looking to hijack more than jetliners. The killers' ultimate goal was and is hijacking Islam itself. And to do that they need us to make them into more than what they are.
Without us elevating them into enemy combatants in a war on terror, they would be just a couple of hundred murderous losers.
... We have glorified Al Qaeda ... but to reach its ultimate goal, it still needs us to convince the majority of Muslims that the war on terror is really a war on Islam.
We are only helping the bad guys if we declare that the religious freedom at the core of our democracy does not apply to a mosque too close to Ground Zero."
"Allowing the Muslim Community Center to be built where it is being proposed represents the best of America -the idea that the United States is a special place in the world, a beacon of fairness that welcomes and protects the rights of all it's people. Too many have sacrificed their lives for these sacred rights to say that certain Americans should not enjoy them simply because of their religion.posted by ericb at 2:29 PM on August 16, 2010
As our Declaration of Independence famously states: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...' and it is my belief that they should be treated equally as well."
"On Morning Joe earlier today, a pair of leading Republicans — host Joe Scarborough and former Bush strategist Mark McKinnon — blasted the GOP for its xenophobic and unconstitutional stance against American Muslims’ right to build a new Islamic center in lower Manhattan.posted by ericb at 2:39 PM on August 16, 2010
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has claimed that the new Islamic center project 'would be like putting a Nazi sign next to the Holocaust Museum.' Referencing that quote, Scarborough expressed angry disdain at Gingrich’s intolerance. 'I don’t know where to begin,' Scarborough said. 'To suggest that someone trying to build a tolerance center for moderate Muslims in New York is the equivalent of killing six million Jews is stunning to me.'
McKinnon then chimed in, arguing that the debate surrounding the Cordoba House project is contrary to his party’s principles. 'We may get our membership [by the GOP] revoked,' McKinnon joked. 'Screw ‘em,' Scarborough responded. McKinnon then said that the GOP’s stance is 'reinforcing al Qaeda’s message':McKINNON: Usually Republicans are forthright in defending the Constitution. And here we are, reinforcing al Qaeda’s message that we’re at war with Muslims. So we’ve got this issue; then we’ve got the 14th Amendment issue, where Republicans are saying you’re not welcome here, when we were the architects of the 14th Amendment. So, I see a bad pattern where we’re headed as a Republican Party.McKinnon said he believed President Obama has 'done the right thing in stepping forward at this time on this issue.' He added, 'Tolerance means tolerating things you don’t like, especially when you don’t like them. … I respect the President for making this move.'" [Video 04:03]
" ... A president does not merely have opinions; he has duties to the Constitution and to the citizens he serves -- including millions of Muslim citizens. His primary concern is not the sifting of sensitivities but the protection of the American people and the vindication of their rights.posted by ericb at 2:52 PM on August 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
By this standard, Obama had no choice but the general path he took. No president, of any party or ideology, could tell millions of Americans that their sacred building desecrates American holy ground. This would understandably be taken as a presidential assault on the deepest beliefs of his fellow citizens. It would be an unprecedented act of sectarianism, alienating an entire faith tradition from the American experiment. If a church or synagogue can be built on a commercial street in Lower Manhattan, declaring a mosque off-limits would officially equate Islam with violence and terrorism. No president would consider making such a statement. And those commentators who urge the president to do so fundamentally misunderstand the presidency itself.
... How precisely is our cause served by treating the construction of a non-radical mosque in Lower Manhattan as the functional equivalent of defiling a grave? It assumes a civilizational conflict instead of defusing it. Symbolism is indeed important in the war against terrorism. But a mosque that rejects radicalism is not a symbol of the enemy's victory; it is a prerequisite for our own.
The federal government has a response to American mosques taken over by advocates of violence. It investigates them, freezes their assets and charges their leaders. It does not urge zoning decisions that express a general discomfort with Islam itself.
Here again, this debate illustrates a gap in perspective. A commentator can speak with obvious sincerity of preventing American hallowed ground from being overshadowed by a mosque. A president not only serves Muslim citizens, not only commands Muslims in the American military, but also leads a coalition that includes Iraqi and Afghan Muslims who risk death each day fighting Islamic radicalism at our side. How could he possibly tell them that their place of worship inherently symbolizes the triumph of terror?
There are many reasons to criticize Obama's late, vacillating response to the Manhattan mosque, and perhaps even to criticize this particular mosque. But those who want a president to assert that any mosque would defile the neighborhood near Ground Zero are asking him to undermine the war on terrorism. A war on Islam would make a war on terrorism impossible."
Mission Accomplished.posted by ericb at 4:43 PM on August 16, 2010
"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."
And ... oh, the list of stupid things done by Bush and his administration is very long!
Nobody, regardless of political leanings, would tolerate a mosque at ground zero.Huh?
The Cordoba Initiative hasn’t yet begun fundraising for its $100 million goal. The group’s latest fundraising report with the state attorney general’s office, from 2008, shows exactly $18,255 — not enough even for a down payment on the half of the site the group has yet to purchase.[via]
The group also lacks even the most basic real estate essentials: no blueprint, architect, lobbyist or engineer — and now operates amid crushing negative publicity. The developers didn't line up advance support for the project from other religious leaders in the city, who could have risen to their defense with the press.
« Older With a ruling scheduled today on Prop 8 — the Cali... | New York's MTA has a YouTube c... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by reverend cuttle at 9:00 AM on August 4, 2010 [44 favorites]