Read the Fucking HIG

January 6, 2011 5:12 PM

The new Mac App Store: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
posted by misha (157 comments total)

/hugs Steam.
posted by Artw at 5:15 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

I guess I should actually care about this, but installing apps on a mac was already a pretty idiot-proof process.

I guess if the store means that more apps will come to mac, that's a good thing, though.
posted by empath at 5:19 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

Oh, wow, I thought I was the only one who recognized Apple as the naked emperor of UI design. Guess I'm sane after all.
posted by 0xdeadc0de at 5:25 PM on January 6, 2011 [6 favorites]

I'm going to make a million dollars when I invent an app that makes a farting noise when you press a button. Nobody copy me, ok?
posted by inedible at 5:26 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

I don't see why I would want to use this.
posted by cmoj at 5:26 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

I don't understand why any developer would bother signing up for this. 30% for Apple? Fuck that. Given me at least 15% off and I'll buy from you direct.
posted by special-k at 5:28 PM on January 6, 2011

Richard Gaywood’s detailed analysis of the kinds and prices of apps that debuted in the Mac App Store - Daring Fireball
posted by Joe Beese at 5:29 PM on January 6, 2011

they can pry apt-get away from my cold dead hands before I use anything this fatuous.
posted by oonh at 5:32 PM on January 6, 2011 [7 favorites]

COMC SANS!
posted by delmoi at 5:33 PM on January 6, 2011

I haven't played with it yet, but "The app UI is just hideous" seems pretty ridiculous. It looks like the iTunes store, which is wildly popular.

"Look at the price tag. It’s pretty indistinct and not easy to read." Okay. I can read it. Just like iTunes. What's your point?
posted by fungible at 5:33 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

I don't understand why any developer would bother signing up for this. 30% for Apple? Fuck that. Given me at least 15% off and I'll buy from you direct.

Advertising.
posted by delmoi at 5:34 PM on January 6, 2011

As long as the app and the trial versions remain available directly from the seller there is no way I am going to use this.
posted by special-k at 5:35 PM on January 6, 2011

Kind of annoying that the 10.6.6 update automatically stuck an App Store icon on my dock, but I got rid of that pretty quick.
posted by bwg at 5:35 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

I don't understand why any developer would bother signing up for this.

I see the Mac App Store being a huge win for the same sorts of overseas small-business or sole-proprietor independent developers who have benefited hugely from the marketing power the iOS App Store gives them.

Not sure about the value proposition for more established domestic development shops. I don't think Panic is going to get a lot of incremental sales from the Mac App Store, though I could be wrong.
posted by killdevil at 5:35 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

That's nothing. The little bar in iTunes that tells you how full your iPod is, and what with, has just been changed to a rather hideous (and somehow oddly familiar...) blue-and-mustard scheme, like it's 1999 or something.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:38 PM on January 6, 2011

Finally, a new place for all the naysayers who were totally wrong about the iPad to hang out!
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 5:39 PM on January 6, 2011 [16 favorites]

30% is a lot less than software companies give to distributors... this is going to be a boon for getting apps into the hands of users, especially if Apple were to devote some resources to get some good, solid editorial reviews up for stuff (the Mac magazine world is a dying genre, it's getting tough to find useful reviews of complex applications, even on the web). Instant, effortless delivery of software is a powerful concept - there are people who are intimidated by logging onto a website and typing their credit card details into an unknown site, who will not think twice before doing this on the App store. And from the vendor side, it removes the need to establish a merchant credit card account and all the overhead in processing orders.

Meanwhile, the individual apps of the iWork suite are broken out separately - $19.99 for Keynote is one hell of a big FU to Microsoft, and might now be the single best bargain of the Mac software universe (Pages and Numbers are also broken out, same price).

But there's no decent organization of software subcategories - no way to find Audio Units plugins under music software, for example. This is a natural - the Audio Damage guys would do well to get their insanely cool plugins on there. Lots of work to be done, but this is a solid, powerful thing that will serve Apple quite well in the long run. I'm impressed, and I've been involved with this stuff since, well, the beginning, so I'm definitely on the jaded end of the spectrum.
posted by dbiedny at 5:39 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

I don't understand why any developer would bother signing up for this. 30% for Apple? Fuck that. Given me at least 15% off and I'll buy from you direct.

It's basically a protection racket, oldest game in the world. You give Apple a piece of the action and all the sudden Apple has a vested interest in your success. You don't comply and Apple will bury you, using competitor products of course.
posted by 2bucksplus at 5:39 PM on January 6, 2011 [3 favorites]

I don't understand why any developer would bother signing up for this.

Apple got rid of the "Mac OS X Software" item in the Apple menu bar, and now it takes you to their App Store. Believe it or not, a prominent listing on their old online software catalog was a huge money maker for a number of developers. I'm not sure I've even ever browsed that library for real, but a lot of people apparently did. I'm guessing the torrent of eyeballs is worth the 30% to people.
posted by floam at 5:39 PM on January 6, 2011

Wait -- Bejewelled is TWENTY BUCKS?!?
posted by Capt. Renault at 5:44 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

This is just simply the way software will be sold in the future. Developers and technologists may continute to bicker a bit about web apps vs desktop apps but for the vast majority of users there is no real difference. This is who we sell to, 100m people who want mahjong and farmville. Who is going to search for mahjong when there are 100 in the app store.
posted by Ad hominem at 5:45 PM on January 6, 2011

So the Mac App Store just showed up as part of Mac OS X 10.6.6 (check Software Update if you don’t already have it installed). As expected, it pretty much confirms my thoughts that someone decided to shoot most of Apple’s designers some time around when brushed metal appeared, along with giving everyone at Cupertino a taste-ectomy. The app UI is just hideous, kicking conventions in the bollocks, laughing in the face of clarity, and mercilessly setting fire to UX and pushing it off a cliff.

I think people know I don't usually defend apple, but this guy seems a little oversensitive. I don't know about the 'buttons on the toolbar' thing since I'm not a mac user, but this:

Clarity. I zoomed the Angry Birds box for a reason. Look at the price tag. It’s pretty indistinct and not easy to read. When slightly darker on a mouseover… well, it’s still pretty indistinct and not easy to read. Perhaps this is intentional, with Apple trying similar mind games to those used on restaurant menus. To me, it just looks like poor design. Someone liked the shade of grey and small text and went with it, rather than thinking if it offered enough contrast and clarity (a problem relatively common throughout the application).

Is this guy going blind or something? I can understand the desire, if you're a designer to make your apps and web designs as high-contrast and easy to read as possible. But as a user, unless you actually can't read it, why freak out like this? I didn't have any trouble reading the price.

It seems like this is something that happens a lot with sticklers for design rules. It's like they learn a "rule" which may have a useful application in some particular situation, and then FLIP OUT whenever they see it violated. Like people who freak out about using Arial instead of Helvetica, even though they are identical except for a few letters.
posted by delmoi at 5:46 PM on January 6, 2011 [6 favorites]

Filing this FPP away for future claim chowder.

Not sure about the value proposition for more established domestic development shops.

Okay.
posted by entropicamericana at 5:46 PM on January 6, 2011 [4 favorites]

It looks like the iTunes store, which is wildly popular.

You know who else was wildly popular?

But seriously, the iTunes store sucks balls. Compare it to Amazon in how much difficulty one experiences in finding one's future Stuff and it's a bad joke. Worse than any legitimate criticisms that can be made of Microsoft software.

Apple makes prize gadgets, but this kind of retailing is apparently beyond their ken.
posted by Joe Beese at 5:49 PM on January 6, 2011 [4 favorites]

Now that I think about it MS needs a brandable app store for businesses. Employee needs visio? Employee goes to branded app store of all the software the corporation has licenses for.
posted by Ad hominem at 5:52 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

Apple makes prize gadgets, but this kind of retailing is apparently beyond their ken.

Apple's physical retail stores are the most successful retail anything - they generate more income, per square foot, than Mercedes Benz dealerships. I've got my own pet issues with Apple, and specific aspects of the stores, but your statement is what I'd categorize as less than bulls-eye material.
posted by dbiedny at 5:54 PM on January 6, 2011 [10 favorites]

I wouldn't be surprised if MS already had something like that for corporate customers, Ad Hominem. I know that IBM does (Passport Advantage).
posted by synaesthetichaze at 5:55 PM on January 6, 2011

All this fury is missing the point. The Mac App Store was not made for you and me; it was made for the barely compute literate (i.e. your parents).
posted by boubelium at 5:57 PM on January 6, 2011 [4 favorites]

Joe, it doesn't matter. You have to know amazon exists first. With these app stores all my mom needs to do is click on "app store". Is Amazon going to install anything for her? If she actually ended up with a install cd it would probably sit unopened for 2 years while she buys 12 versions of solitaire from the app store.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:00 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

Apple makes prize gadgets, but this kind of retailing is apparently beyond their ken.

Yes, the iTunes Store has been such a failure.
posted by plastic_animals at 6:04 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm guessing the torrent of eyeballs is worth the 30% to people.

You can torrent eyeballs now? I'm going to keep paying for mine to insure there's a healthy market for healthy organs.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:11 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

You guys do get that running your own web sites and e-commerce systems, credit card processing, transaction fees and merchant accounts, delivery and authentication systems etc costs money, right? You do know places like Kagi don't do this for free, right?
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 6:17 PM on January 6, 2011 [6 favorites]

I have a friend who's an app developer and has one of the mac apps featured in the new app store He's a one-man band (well, he employs a designer now and then) and it's made his life enormously easier. The biggest effect is that it's going to drastically drive down app prices and drive up sales numbers. He thinks it's a win as he no longer has to worry about all the craziness that goes along with distribution. Getting boxes into stores or eyeballs to your website used to be the hardest, nastiest part of the whole process.
posted by unSane at 6:18 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

Apple released something new? Well, it's either a glorious revolution in modern computing or part of a sinister plot to enslave humanity. Can somebody on the internet weigh in on this?
posted by TrialByMedia at 6:19 PM on January 6, 2011 [28 favorites]

i don't have a problem with it unless I have to jailbreak my next Mac to get non app store software onto it.
posted by fleetmouse at 6:28 PM on January 6, 2011 [7 favorites]

With these app stores all my mom needs to do is click on "app store".

Even moms are becoming increasingly less "mom"-like in this regard. And there aren't many real "moms" coming along after them. The kids have grown up on this stuff.

I got my iGadgets from Santa, so I don't know anything about the meatspace aspect of Apple retail. If you tell me it's rapturous, I'll take your word for it.

But I can tell you as a consumer who wanted to spend some money on an app that it was easier to find something using the AppShopper app than it was in the iTunes Store.
posted by Joe Beese at 6:28 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

i don't have a problem with it unless I have to jailbreak my next Mac to get non app store software onto it.

Apple would have to figure out a way to lock out Bodega and Steam, to give a couple examples. Probably not going to happen any time soon.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:34 PM on January 6, 2011

Yes, the iTunes Store has been such a failure.

Perhaps the iTunes store would be more of a success (or at least better liked) if Apple had followed their own human interface guidelines, or thought about currently awkward or missing functionality. Buying music you already know about is relatively easy. Searching for new music in iTunes is abysmally bad in comparison to other music stores (or gasp tools for euphemistically 'sharing' music). I wept when Amazon bought cdnow and completely broke their music recommendation feature. That was an example of good functionality (or so I have lead myself to believe).
posted by combinatorial explosion at 6:34 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

i don't have a problem with it unless I have to jailbreak my next Mac to get non app store software onto it.

No lesser authority than El Jobso has said there are no plans to lock down the Mac, ever.
posted by killdevil at 6:37 PM on January 6, 2011

I also think it's a bit silly to start judging it now. I mean, almost none of the kinds of apps I use are there, the layout seems annoying, and I don't like the UI. Big deal. It's a few hours old. The apps will come, it'll either be successful or not, and for the five minutes a month I'll have it open to get updates, I'll try to deal with the existential dread I get from the close/minimize/not-quite-maximize* group being 12 pixels lower than I'd like it to be.

I mean, really people, get a grip.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 6:39 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

I don't understand why any developer would bother signing up for this. 30% for Apple? Fuck that. Given me at least 15% off and I'll buy from you direct.

You will, but not many others.

As an independent software developer wanting to sell something on the Mac for, say, $10, giving Apple $3 isn't a bad deal. It means I don't have to maintain a shopping cart, a relationship with a payment processor (Paypal, buh-bye), or my own DRM scheme which I know will get broken almost immediately while still leaving me to deal with pissed off legitimate customers who lost their licence key. It also offers a convenient update mechanism, which is something else I don't need to worry about.
posted by fatbird at 6:39 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

The Good, the Bad, the Ugly.

And the already hacked.

You'd think Apple, being the second most valuable company in the world by market cap might just be able to last, y'know, a week or two before being hacked.
posted by sien at 6:40 PM on January 6, 2011

(*almost forgot my asterisk: so really, what the hell is that thing? I mean, I don't CARE, cause I never use it, and I get the 'zoom to fit content' idea, but that green button never quite does what you would expect. I mean, I'm glad it's not an actual maximize, cause that just doesn't make sense in the Mac world the way it does on Windows, but I wouldn't miss it if it disappeared one day. Hey? remember the purple 'single window mode' button? THAT was a dumb idea. But I'm showing my age. [If I really want to do that I'll ask: hey, remember the INIT file that would make Oscar sing about trash when you emptied it? But now I'm way off topic, and when I hit post this is going to be like four comments away from the one it's arguably supposed to be attached to.])
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 6:44 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

John Kenneth Fisher: "You guys do get that running your own web sites and e-commerce systems, credit card processing, transaction fees and merchant accounts, delivery and authentication systems etc costs money, right? You do know places like Kagi don't do this for free, right?"

Yea, I have to agree. I do run an e-commerce website for a non-profit and it's a pain in the arse to maintain (ZenCart is horrible) and we have to pay hosting fees, domain fees, certificate fees and Google Checkout gets a fee to run each credit card.

A 30% cut to advertise, distribute and process your app sales doesn't seem bad at all.
posted by octothorpe at 6:48 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

No lesser authority than El Jobso has said there are no plans to lock down the Mac, ever.

That may be true but I bet he sometimes lies awake, smiling in the darkness.
posted by fleetmouse at 6:55 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

You have to know amazon exists first.

Where the fuck do we draw the line on this sort of model?

I've had to tell all but one Mac users that I know that yes, they can update their OS, and yes, it usually makes their desktop experience better. So many of them were running Tiger. I've got no problem with that, they're young, intelligent, and view computers as a commodity (having grown up with them). It's just not important to them until things start breaking.

For $35 CDN, you're on your way to a lot of patches, new features, and optimization. Does your Mom or Dad know this? How is it your Mom is going to know that they need Snow Leopard rather than Tiger or Leopard? How is they are going to know what the new icon does after they supposedly just know that they need to update Snow Leopard, if they have it? Isn't this the same as having heard of Amazon? How is it they can possibly know that they need to apply a software update for the new Mac store? How is that they could possibly know that Apple has created a new Mac app store? How is it that they know anything?

Thank god Apple has solved the problem of people's Mom's (and people's kids, sisters, brothers, dads) not knowing about Amazon but apparently know about OS updates and anything Apple does. Praises are due.
posted by juiceCake at 7:01 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

And the already hacked.

Meh. You still have to do the exact same thing (download it off a torrent or someplace) to get the software as you would have had to do yesterday, or last year.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 7:02 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

One of the other, more subtle, aspects of the app store is that the people who shop there are used to paying for apps. To some degree, at least, people going to the app store internalize that there's at least a minimal degree of curating going on, that the app store is more convenient than applying hax or searching serialz sites to break DRM, and the general community ethos is that, if you want it, you pay for it. That's a much more valuable audience to a software vendor than the Internet as a whole, especially for independents.

The last time I checked a couple months ago, less than 10% of iPhones are jailbroken, despite easy methods to do so. Most people in the Apple-sphere just don't bother. Part of what you're paying 30% for is access to a community of consumers who aren't so hipped on "why should I pay if I don't have to?"
posted by fatbird at 7:03 PM on January 6, 2011

I also think it's a bit silly to start judging it now

I agree, but the interface does feel a bit like it was rushed through, without the usual polish.

It doesn't take much away from what it is doing for developers and end users, of course, and the Mac App Store will likely be a huge success for those folks, as well as another reliable source of revenue for Apple.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:03 PM on January 6, 2011

How is it they can possibly know that they need to apply a software update for the new Mac store?

The giant thing that pops up on their computer and stays there until they reboot?
posted by Threeway Handshake at 7:05 PM on January 6, 2011

I've had to tell all but one Mac users that I know that yes, they can update their OS, and yes, it usually makes their desktop experience better.

Maybe today. But in the coming years this will be less of an issue as people buy new machines.

This makes a whole lot of sense. I can buy apps on my iPad at the click of a button but I have to go searching the web for apps for my Mac mini? Why have different distribution channels. Apple vets iPhone and iPad apps, why let the desktop side be a free-for-all. What is the difference between an iPad app and a desktop app anyway? I want to play angry birds on my iMac!
posted by Ad hominem at 7:13 PM on January 6, 2011

Hang on everyone, I'm only up to page 53 in the revised terms of service. Hold the discussion until I've read every word, ok?
posted by pompomtom at 7:13 PM on January 6, 2011 [6 favorites]

I have to say though this is the thing that finally made me create an account with them. I never wanted to make an itunes account because it felt intrusive. But the app store has a few nice free things that seem to be exclusive, like Sketchbook Express and that Soundcloud app.

I installed Sketchbook Express and it was real smooooth. Just went right in there like it was greased. But Little Snitch tells me it tries to connect to Apple every time it starts. Hmmmm.
posted by fleetmouse at 7:20 PM on January 6, 2011

Artw: /hugs Steam

Speaking of which: Assassin's Creed 2 is now on SteamPlay (aka on Mac via Steam)
posted by paisley henosis at 7:25 PM on January 6, 2011

But Little Snitch tells me it tries to connect to Apple every time it starts.

All the ones I've gotten off the store don't do this, and I'm tcpdumping from my router. I'll try Sketchbook Express, but I'm going to hazard a guess that what you're seeing is an software update checker that runs too frequently. If everything phoned home DRM-style, then you'd not be able to run things offline, which is not the case.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 7:25 PM on January 6, 2011

The giant thing that pops up on their computer and stays there until they reboot?

How is it that it's ensured this isn't ignored like so many other giant things that pop up when interacting with computers, like say, that warning that the program you just compiled didn't compile properly but the user just closes it and it runs the older version of the program? Before I updated a friends Mac to Snow Leopard I'm afraid there were no giant things popping up telling us to update to a new OS. I heard about the release elsewhere though, just like I heard about Amazon, eBay, Facebook, language, cars, buses, planes, keyboards, tablets, netbooks, writing, movies, actors, authors, the Internet, Google, humidifiers, etc.


Maybe today. But in the coming years this will be less of an issue as people buy new machines.

How will they know there are new machines? If they risk not having heard of Amazon, how will they not have the risk of not hearing about new machines?


Why have different distribution channels.

Why not? I have no problem with this method, it adds more choices for people and is very Linux/Ubuntu like. I just don't see it solving the problem of people failing to know certain things but magically knowing about this store.
posted by juiceCake at 7:28 PM on January 6, 2011

it adds more choices for people and is very Linux/Ubuntu like

Yeah. YEAH!
With Ubuntu you can, via a console command, change which source apt-get pulls from.

Of course Macs have Macports which is just the same thing but don't tell anybody!
posted by Threeway Handshake at 7:31 PM on January 6, 2011

You'd think Apple, being the second most valuable company in the world by market cap might just be able to last, y'know, a week or two before being hacked.

The developer didn't bother checking that the license was for their app. Apple wasn't "hacked".
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 7:35 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

And the already hacked.

Did you read the article you linked to?

The issue affects applications which have not fully implemented Apple's security recommendations.
posted by rtha at 7:37 PM on January 6, 2011

I'm going to hazard a guess that what you're seeing is an software update checker that runs too frequently.

That's possible. It runs OK even if I block the connection. I didn't think it was some awful Ubisoft type DRM, just wondering if it's reporting usage statistics.
posted by fleetmouse at 7:38 PM on January 6, 2011

So, apart from Apple, is there any software in there from major publishers? Is Photoshop or Acrobat or Office or Mathmatica or whatever the equivalent for Autocad is on the Mac? I there any Google stuff in there, Earth or Sketchup? All I can see are games and lots of little apps, nothing that looks like major software. Is this going to be a mostly Apple play or do others get to come to the party too?
posted by bonehead at 7:41 PM on January 6, 2011

But Little Snitch tells me it tries to connect to Apple every time it starts

The Calculator app does this. Turns out it wasn't telling Apple what numbers are being punched in, but instead it connects to Apple to download updated conversion rates for currency exchange calculations.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:41 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

Is this going to be a mostly Apple play or do others get to come to the party too?

Adobe, Microsoft and Wolfram have their own DRM schemes. If they want to sell through the Mac App Store, their Mac software would have to use Apple's DRM.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:44 PM on January 6, 2011

'I haven't played with it yet, but "The app UI is just hideous" seems pretty ridiculous. It looks like the iTunes store, which is wildly popular.'

The two statements are not contradictory. The iTunes store is wildly popular, but it is also hideous. Cluttered to hell with promotion and "what's hot!" up-front, impossible to browse (the music store is OK passable, the iTunes App store is epic fail), and impossible to search unless you know the exact name you're looking for (now there's a difference between music and app retailing that's worth pondering…).

I guess the small mercy is that they made it a separate app and didn't shoehorn this into iTunes too - though I would've though incorporating it into Safari would make even more sense (and I don't even use Safari myself…)
posted by Pinback at 7:45 PM on January 6, 2011 [4 favorites]

it adds more choices for people and is very Linux/Ubuntu like

If this is really what they're planning, it could be a great honking step forward. The app repository system Linux and particularly Ubuntu have is lightyears beyond what either MS or Apple do with software. If Apple can do this for the Mac, complete with centralized updates, which is the really big win for customers, we can only hope that MS won't be too far behind.

Imagine going to your parents on Thanksgiving and NOT having to spend all morning updating their software! Good for Apple if they can pull this off, and a potential huge win for their customers.
posted by bonehead at 7:47 PM on January 6, 2011

No lesser authority than El Jobso has said there are no plans to lock down the Mac, ever.

Huh. Here that was the whole idea of the Mac - given back in the Apple ][ openness was the reason Pineapples and Franklin Aces existed - was its closed nature.

So "ever" isn't right - the original pitch to the board was locking that bad boy up to prevent clones.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:52 PM on January 6, 2011

Adobe, Microsoft and Wolfram have their own DRM schemes. If they want to sell through the Mac App Store, their Mac software would have to use Apple's DRM.

I guess what I'm really wondering is if Apple can resist being Apple and allow real competitors into their store. Can Apple duplicate Steam's success or are they going to be more like MS and less like Valve?
posted by bonehead at 7:52 PM on January 6, 2011

Ever since I heard of the Mac App Store I've been thinking this: beyond synchronizing this "app store" thing between iPhone/iPad devices and Mac (and getting a cut of 3rd party software), this is probably a step toward phasing out OS X. Given the non-private API checks in the AppStore, give it 6 months or a year, and then Apple can probably release a new laptop Air-like device that runs some form of iOS on an ARM chip (A5?). And it will only run apps from their app stores, which they've begun building up a library for.

This would let Apple release an almost entirely new computer platform (a "real" computer) with close to the largest library of third party software ever. OS X would be pushed further into the high-end (probably only their MacBook Pro and Mac Pro line to begin with, and then maybe phased out entirely).

killdevil: No lesser authority than El Jobso has said there are no plans to lock down the Mac, ever.

That's probably right, but it's missing the point. Just like OS9, and then PowerPC, have been phased out, Apple would phase out "Mac" and replace it with a whole line of iOS devices. You'll be able to keep using Macs and people will keep using them, but just like the last person I knew still running PowerPC finally upgraded to Intel, you can only seriously use OSX for so long.

But, it's just a theory I have. It's seems weirdly scary to me though.
posted by skynxnex at 7:57 PM on January 6, 2011 [4 favorites]

I guess what I'm really wondering is if Apple can resist being Apple and allow real competitors into their store

I haven't seen any examples of vendors submitting Mac apps during the development period and being refused, even while agreeing to terms. I guess it would have been a pretty big story if it had happened.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:58 PM on January 6, 2011

juiceCake: "Before I updated a friends Mac to Snow Leopard I'm afraid there were no giant things popping up telling us to update to a new OS. I heard about the release elsewhere though, just like I heard about Amazon, eBay, Facebook, language, cars, buses, planes, keyboards, tablets, netbooks, writing, movies, actors, authors, the Internet, Google, humidifiers, etc."

And Windows 7? Haven't noticed any giant pop-ups on my gf's Vista laptop either…

All that shows is that the saturation coverage of Windows releases (and your other examples) is inescapable in the mainstream, while Apple's OS X releases are only widely covered in nerd-dom

Your Apple-using friends live in the mainstream, not the nerdosphere…
posted by Pinback at 8:03 PM on January 6, 2011

Aperture is $200 on the website and $80 on the app store. Whoah.
posted by unSane at 8:03 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

Speaking of design of the App Store, I was very surprised by the plain design, especially the lack of colors: http://www.macappstore.com/.

And the related posts link to iTunes 2 post on MeFi from 2001 really takes me back... And don't forget what OS X used to look like.
posted by skynxnex at 8:06 PM on January 6, 2011

it adds more choices for people and is very Linux/Ubuntu Debian like.

Nitpicky, I know but Ubuntu seems to get all the credit for things that have been a part of Debian for years.
posted by TrialByMedia at 8:08 PM on January 6, 2011

Nitpicky, I know but Ubuntu seems to get all the credit for things that have been a part of Debian for years.

And Debian gets a lot of credit for cloning other people's stuff.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 8:12 PM on January 6, 2011

OSX phaseout? Um, last time I checked, application development on any of the ecosystem requires an OSX-based, full-featured computer, not to mention the galaxy of tools I use to create media every day that need the hardware foundation that I'm not about to find on iPhones or iPads. There are things used to create other things, it's not all about consumption. iOS is nice and dandy, but it's not a platform for the tools of production that professionals use for commercial and creative work.
posted by dbiedny at 8:19 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

The difference is that Ubuntu's repositories and update system is completely operable by mouse and everything is explained in non-technical English. I used to have to read man pages for half an hour every time I wanted to add something with the Port system. Usability is a very big deal.
posted by bonehead at 8:26 PM on January 6, 2011

Mac App Store or Omni’s online store? Your choice!
posted by Artw at 8:26 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm not about to find on iPhones or iPads.

What makes you think they won't release development applications for iOS devices that run on a MacBook/Air/Desktop form-factor? Everthing I was talking about was about moving iOS (or an iOS like OS) to computers beyond the existing iPhones and iPads and onto "real" computers. Also, if you're developing programs to sell in an appstore, you're in such a tiny percentage of users you'll probably still buy the Pro line which I figure they'd keep around longer for developers and businesses. But, things get phased out. Even more so in the Apple world. Remember, a lot of Win 3.1/Win 95 apps still run on Windows 7, while Apple is phasing/has phased out *all* support for even the compatibility layer to run apps using the non-native (Carbon, I think) APIs on OSX (which is biting Adobe). Why wouldn't they do that again?

But I think you're thinking really small if you think that things like compilers and other things can't be on iOS if Apple wants it to be.
posted by skynxnex at 8:30 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

Aperture is $200 on the website and $80 on the app store. Whoah.

If you make it easy to buy software, people will buy it, all things considered. If significantly more people buy it, then you can afford to lower the price significantly.

I'd love to see the cost of VSTs, etc drop down to a reasonable amount, too.
posted by empath at 8:37 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

Okay so speaking as a neurotic snowflake who happily spends many, many hours a day on a Mac, seven days a week: in an application UI, I'm gonna place a high value on 1. consistency and 2. usability, and a moderately high value on 3. customizability. The "App Store" application is immediately obvious as a step backward in all those areas, and the "ugly" link in the FPP doesn't even hit on all the things that leapt out at me as soon as I opened it.

Here are the Close / Minimize / Zoom widgets on the App Store alongside the other two programs I currently have open (Safari and iTunes). You'll also note the inexplicable difference in the back/forward navigation buttons on all three.

Here are the search fields in the same 3 applications.

For no discernible reason they're all different, with elements placed and oriented differently. And the trend of oldest to newest (Safari → iTunes 10 redesign → App Store) is toward smaller click targets (especially the vanishingly slim area above the toolbar elements you could use to move the window) and inexplicably more tightly-spaced buttons. Seriously, there's a damn country mile of empty toolbar between the back/forward buttons and the un-button-like Featured/Categories/Etc "buttons" - so why are the back/forward buttons rammed against the Close/Minimize/Zoom window controls?

Completely assuming I could fix this by dropping a "space" or "divider" element to the left of the back/forward buttons, I right-clicked the toolbar expecting to find "Customize Toolbar..." as I would in Finder, Safari, Mail, or most any other comparable software, but there is no such option.

(I could gripe on about the in-application navigation as well (any wild goddamn guess where the mysterious link in the bottom-right of this screenshot will take me? Hovering reveals nothing. Turns out it goes to the developer's blog) but that's another story.)

Visual and spatial consistency is so key to the smooth operation of software, and to muscle memory, especially in an OS founded on principles of application consistency and interoperability. Like iTunes 10, in numerous little ways the App Store UI fails that, breaks convention, adds unwelcome and pointless UI quirks that are worse by any quantifiable measure of usability, and does so for no reason except to do so.

I do totally get why someone less neurotic than me would find all this to be ridiculous nitpicking. But I should not be noticing myself briefly searching for, and deliberately clicking on, UI elements. That should be automatic and brains-free, as a function of good design. In aggregate these inconsistencies make the normal activity of using my computer and jumping between applications something akin to driving a luxury car that inexplicably swerves left or right a tiny bit every time I switch gears, because some designer thought that would be a precious quirk. Why would I want that? Just make the fucking thing drive straight.
posted by churl at 8:39 PM on January 6, 2011 [7 favorites]

if all you have to complain about is a few pixels here and there, i guess the product is a success.
posted by empath at 8:43 PM on January 6, 2011

I do totally get why someone less neurotic than me would find all this to be ridiculous nitpicking.

churl, I'm coming from a place of solidarity, because design is in my blood, but heaven help me that is ridiculous nitpicking.
posted by jeremias at 9:08 PM on January 6, 2011

i don't have a problem with it unless I have to jailbreak my next Mac to get non app store software onto it.

Mac : iOS Device :: Apple II : Mac

Even moms are becoming increasingly less "mom"-like in this regard. And there aren't many real "moms" coming along after them. The kids have grown up on this stuff.

Not only is my actual mother more computer literate then she was when I was growing up, but my highschool classmates are reproducing, making them "moms" (as well as dads). I actually remember t-mobile advertising a cellphone I wanted recently (HTC G2) as a phone for "busy moms on the go"

The reality is, in a couple years the parents of the 10-20 set will have grown up with computers and have no problem using them.

And the parents of the 0-10 set will be millennial, who's first video game experience will have been the PS2 and N64, and will have never known the world without widespread internet access.

Adobe, Microsoft and Wolfram have their own DRM schemes. If they want to sell through the Mac App Store, their Mac software would have to use Apple's DRM.

Hey Blazecock, how do you feel about Apple blocking the Wikileaks App, HMMM???
posted by delmoi at 9:25 PM on January 6, 2011

Next up: a forty page treatise on the differences in the lowercase t's of arial and helvetica.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 9:26 PM on January 6, 2011

The guy in The Ugly doesn't seem to get that this a kids app.
posted by stp123 at 9:37 PM on January 6, 2011

I love watching people whine about how Apple is dumb and Apple can't do anything right and they won't ever touch Apple products - all while Apple's market capitalisation climbs - nay, alternately saunters and frolicks - over three hundred *pinky* BILLION dollars. Clearly, you're all right, and this is some kind of fluke that gets repeated over and over and over again. They're morons. Hopeless. Just you wait and see.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 9:40 PM on January 6, 2011 [5 favorites]

and strike-through style on visited hyperlinks is pretty odd UI design. Coming to the blog post after my wife had read it - a great red strike out in the middle of the text.
posted by the noob at 9:48 PM on January 6, 2011

Well, yes but no. I'm as big an Apple fanboi as you can imagine -- I actually can't count the number of Macs in the house and I was one of those lining up outside the store for OS X when it launched a decade ago. But the iTunes and AppStore apps are horrible and the new trend to prevent or dumb down customization of the app experience (eg the increasingly common trend of preventing menu bar customization -- you can't shrink the toolbar icons in Aperture 3, for example, and increasingly the toolbar isn't customizable at all -- is a tiny symptom of a process which could eventually drive me to another platform. Not yet, by a long shot, but my loyalty is not a given.

There was a time when Google seemed to be in the position Apple is in now -- they couldn't put a step wrong -- but they lost sight of the primacy of search and as the Google search experience degrades (which it is doing, fast) they are suddenly vulnerable on their core comptence, And all the Gmails and Google Docs and Google Maps and Android devices in the world will not save them.

Apple could go that route very easily. They need to stay on their game and not alienate the passionate advocates.
posted by unSane at 9:51 PM on January 6, 2011 [2 favorites]

Hey Blazecock, how do you feel about Apple blocking the Wikileaks App, HMMM???

This has absolutely nothing to do with Apple's DRM, or even the Mac App Store, but for the record:

• In the past, I expressed opposition to Fiore's editorial cartoon app being blocked, and I don't think a WikiLeaks app should be blocked on the general principle of free speech

• However: The specific WikiLeaks app you are referring to was not free, and there was no way to guarantee that the app's creator would donate proceeds to WikiLeaks

I would support a free WikiLeaks app that includes some means to donate in-app directly to WL, and not to the developer.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:54 PM on January 6, 2011

But I can tell you as a consumer who wanted to spend some money on an app that it was easier to find something using the AppShopper app than it was in the iTunes Store.

I buy a few apps from the iTunes Store, and browsing there is a pain. I generally hit up AppShopper, TouchArcade, and 148Apps if I'm looking for something. Generally speaking, the iTunes Store is probably good enough that few care that it's a sorry excuse for an online store, focusing mostly on impulse shopping, and ignoring all but the most immediate user experiences. The Mac App Store looks like they just ripped the web browser out of iTunes, and made a few tweaks.

I do wonder if it's true that Apple has no staff permanently devoted to any one software product, but instead has a bunch of software people rotating around all over the place. That would explain a lot to me.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:58 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

This - via reddit
posted by the noob at 10:06 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm wondering how many of the apps I've already bought (Things and Acorn, I'm looking at you) are going to end up going App Store-only after a major version update somewhere down the road, forcing me to re-purchase them completely. Given that the prices seem to be lower on the App Store, unless you're Bejewelled, that won't be a huge financial hit if it happens, but it's still annoying. On the upside, since my husband and I buy everything on my Apple ID, I guess that means we no longer have to worry about licensing for both seats in the house on most of the apps we buy now.
posted by immlass at 10:07 PM on January 6, 2011

The elephant in the room, IMO, is the lack of a unified App/engine and the different prices between stores. Pages is $10 on the iPad, $20 on the Mac. Why should I have to purchase again, if I've already bought it in one place?
Just sell me a universal App for $30 and let me run it on whatever device I need.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:42 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

I don't understand why any developer would bother signing up for this.

Everywhere I went for eight or nine years, I had some flavor of PalmOS device in my pocket. In that time I picked up maybe 40 or 50 third-party apps for them, around two-thirds of which were freeware.

Everywhere I've gone for the last year and a half, I've had some flavor of iOS device in my pocket. In that time I've picked up over 200 third-party apps for them, probably two-thirds of which cost actual money.

Some of that disparity is due to the much bigger selection of apps for iOS, but most of it is due to the App Store itself. One-stop shopping, single-click purchasing and order fulfillment, an out-of-sight out-of-mind DRM scheme, a unified and largely automated update system...each one of those things removes a little more friction from the process of getting the product in front of people and getting them to pay for it. And getting rid of that friction inevitably increases sales. Not just to people who are hesitant to give their credit card number to a third-party payment processor or who are intimidated by cutting and pasting a license key from an email message, but from every single person who's participating in the ecosystem.

That's why a developer would bother signing up for it.
posted by Lazlo at 11:02 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

So far, so good, but where does the Talking Moose fit into this brave new world?
posted by Sam Ryan at 11:21 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]

It worries me that there is no upgrade or subscription model available for the more complex software. As much as it would benefit users to get free upgrades to Photoshop in perpetuity, I can't see Adobe actually going with this as it cuts off any revenue they might get for future versions.

When Tiger comes out, I'm going to give money to Apple to upgrade. This standard functionality isn't available to Apps in the App Store.

I can understand why they've done this, but it may stop people putting all but the simplest Apps in the App Store. That's a shame.
posted by seanyboy at 1:01 AM on January 7, 2011

The good part of this (for me) is that I only have to upgrade Pages one more time & then it's free upgrades for life.
posted by seanyboy at 1:04 AM on January 7, 2011

Hmm: no trial versions, no way to migrate from a version bought direct from the developer to the next upgrade from the App Store.

Still, perhaps they'll have it all fixed by the time Textmate 2 comes out.

But it's not enough to tempt me back to Mac OS X.

apt-get FTW.
posted by littleredspiders at 1:28 AM on January 7, 2011

I wish people would quit trotting out the old "[Apple product] isn't for you, it's for your mom" fallacy. To me, it always sounds like "There's no possible way someone with computer experience would use this thing!", as if it's somehow beneath them. Yes, even geeks sometimes tire of doing things the hard way, and user-friendly solutions like the App Store provide a pleasant alternative to finding, buying, installing, and updating applications by hand.

As a recent Apple adopter, I've noticed that the amount of infantilizing of Apple users -- from quips about one-button mice, to mockery of their supposed preference for "style over substance", to this illiteracy nonsense -- is overwhelming in many parts of the net, especially the geekier ones I frequent. I like Apple products, including this latest venture. I am not an old lady.
posted by archagon at 2:12 AM on January 7, 2011 [7 favorites]

Still on Tiger on the laptop, and Leopard on the desktop. This might just be the impetus to upgrade.
posted by salmacis at 2:44 AM on January 7, 2011

I like the app store. I like its UI. I saw MindNode on it, and it's free, so I got it, and I like it. The UI just showed it to me, and I was like, "Hey. Cool."

Now I just got this other thing. Neat.

I'm neither joyous nor homicidal. Should I be feeling more? :(
posted by Nattie at 3:50 AM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]

I'm angry cause the apps go to the dock and not the apps folder where I keep my apps.
posted by dougrayrankin at 5:52 AM on January 7, 2011

dougrayrankin, the purchased apps live in the Applications folder as usual. The dock icon is just a shortcut, remove it if it bothers you.

I understand the rationale of auto-placing the app shortcut into the Dock from Apple's side (imagine the thousands of "I BOUGHT AN APP NOW WHERE IS IT STEVE JOBS SUCKS ASS" complaints from non tech-savvy folks if they didn't do it), though I wish there was a preference checkbox for not doing the automatic placement for more experienced users.
posted by lifeless at 6:06 AM on January 7, 2011 [2 favorites]

I don't know about anyone else, but I've never said to myself, "I just LOVE searching for freeware/shareware on the Internet!"
posted by snofoam at 6:08 AM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]

I don't know about anyone else, but I've never said to myself, "I just LOVE searching for freeware/shareware on the Internet!"

Bingo.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:22 AM on January 7, 2011

I'm with Nattie. I got some neat stuff, and it was easy. Neat!

However, it does have the Android Market problem: lots and lots of shovelware. Oh well.
posted by r_nebblesworthII at 6:31 AM on January 7, 2011

I used to love searching BBSes for freeware/cardware/shareware in the olden days (internet? not quite as much). Getting list after list of software, most of them I had already seen on ten others, but always hoping this newest one would have a gem I've never seen. When I found it, I hit "7" (or where ever it was in the list), hit "Z" for Z-Modem, and watch my terminal program begin downloading the first 1.4MB "disk". I'd go back to reading the latest Computer Gaming World (pre-ZD, of course) or the Turbo Pascal 7 manual. After about two minutes, it'd be done and I'd start on disk 2!

There were a lot of problems back then, and it's probably just because I didn't know any better, but that *was* fun. The people were great and even the crappy software had something new about it. The Internet has never been able to recreate that completely. So I can't completely hate an attempt at making computer software more fun to find.
posted by skynxnex at 6:52 AM on January 7, 2011

So is this going to drive up iOS prices, or drive down Mac prices? Since we're all used to spending at most $10 for impulse purchases for our iThingies, will that make us think twice about paying more for something similar on a laptop? I totally get it for big apps on the Mac, but are all the little utilities going to come down in price? Or will there be more ad-supported $0 software for Mac?
posted by monkeymadness at 7:06 AM on January 7, 2011

With Amazon's announcement of an Android app store in the works, I think this marks the end of the software aisle at Targét and Best Buy.
posted by device55 at 7:15 AM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]

An interesting thing I noticed about the Mac App Store last night: I installed Twitter (nee Tweetie) on my iMac and removed it from the dock. I then installed Twitter on my MacBook and it did not automatically add it to the dock.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:44 AM on January 7, 2011

Sam Ryan: So far, so good, but where does the Talking Moose fit into this brave new world?

He's been replaced by a Noodle
posted by readyfreddy at 7:56 AM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]

I've been sort of following this on Hacker News as well.

Developer reactions have been generally positive
posted by Ad hominem at 7:59 AM on January 7, 2011

AH, it's nice that this guy had 5,000 downloads. but it's for a free app. I'd be more interested in 5,000 downloads for cold hard cash.
posted by readyfreddy at 8:11 AM on January 7, 2011

The majority of Apple users are on Windows. They run iTunes for the iPhone or iPod and plug it into a Windows machine. iTunes on Windows is offense to any sense of design or usability. It's big, bloated, and doesn't follow any of the operating systems guidelines or use any common tools or widgets. It's disgusting and shameful for a company that produces high quality products to produce that garbage for the majority of its users.

That being said, a lot of people use it. Why would you expect anything to be better on OSX?

Remember popular does not mean good.
posted by blue_beetle at 8:26 AM on January 7, 2011

I have instantly fallen in love with this thing.

Fuck the haters. I have better things to do with my time than fruitlessly scouring Google whenever I need a new application to complete something I'm working on.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:01 AM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]

The majority of Apple users are on Windows.

Actually, they're on iOS, they just have to add/remove content and do backups. I doubt Apple is too concerned about some speed issues or minor glitches with that on platforms they don't own, because they can pretend it's due to it running on a non-Apple OS.
posted by mikeh at 9:05 AM on January 7, 2011

That being said, a lot of people use it.

Because it's better than anything else on the market. By a looooooong way.

t's big, bloated, and doesn't follow any of the operating systems guidelines or use any common tools or widgets.

I think this should probably tell you that following the guidelines isn't very important to pretty much anyone.
posted by empath at 9:08 AM on January 7, 2011

Btw, I think Microsoft should be terrified of the App store.

How difficult would it be for Apple to create a Windows version?
posted by empath at 9:09 AM on January 7, 2011

They'd have to write a working Windows version of iTunes first.
posted by Artw at 9:15 AM on January 7, 2011 [4 favorites]

it would have been a pretty big story if it had happened.

For any 'story' to be 'big' someone would have to complain. Once the complaining starts, others would have to pick up the story and spread it.

To state that "I didn't see it therefore it didn't happen" isn't "proof" that something did or did not happen.
posted by rough ashlar at 9:20 AM on January 7, 2011

Your Apple-using friends live in the mainstream, not the nerdosphere…

Agreed. I said as much. Just like a lot of people's Mom's...
posted by juiceCake at 9:45 AM on January 7, 2011

From the "ugly" link:

The window controls are positioned in a different place to usual. This screws up muscle memory for Mac users used to ‘snapping’ to specific points to interact with controls.

Seriously, anybody this passionate about UI should be using the goddamn hotkeys in the first place.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 9:49 AM on January 7, 2011

Nitpicky, I know but Ubuntu seems to get all the credit for things that have been a part of Debian for years.

Sure. It was just an example of repository done nicely (relative opinion of course). It's sort of like when someone mentions Dual Overhead Cam Engines they don't always say, originally pioneered by Renault.
posted by juiceCake at 9:51 AM on January 7, 2011

I doubt Apple is too concerned about some speed issues or minor glitches with that on platforms they don't own, because they can pretend it's due to it running on a non-Apple OS.

Which is odd, because for a lot of Windows users, iTunes (and Quicktime before it) is significant part of their Apple experience. I know many people who want nothing to do with Apple as a result of using iTunes on Windows. They assume that if Apple's main application on Windows is that terrible, and it really is awful, worse than even Adobe or Sun, than the rest of their stuff must be pretty crappy too. Rightly or wrongly, iTunes on Windows generates a lot of bad will for the company.

Many iPod users I know have switched to winamp or songbird to manage their devices.
posted by bonehead at 9:54 AM on January 7, 2011

I think this should probably tell you that following the guidelines isn't very important to pretty much anyone.

Wait, I thought iOS App Store programs were superior because they have to follow Apple's guidelines?
posted by kmz at 10:11 AM on January 7, 2011

Now that I think about it MS needs a brandable app store for businesses. Employee needs visio? Employee goes to branded app store of all the software the corporation has licenses for.
posted by Ad hominem

The UK government is actually trying to introduce their own internal version of this concept.
posted by aychedee at 10:26 AM on January 7, 2011

Wait, I thought iOS App Store programs were superior because they have to follow Apple's guidelines?

Why should Apple have the same rigorous standards for their own products that they expect third parties to meet?
posted by kafziel at 10:34 AM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]

Wait, I thought iOS App Store programs were superior because they have to follow Apple's guidelines?

I guess it depends on what those guidelines are. Apple has gotten away from the HIG stuff for a long time, and I don't think they expect it from their developers either.

I think, in general, if you don't really know much about UI or don't particularly care about it, then going with the HIG is probably a good idea. But it's not like they're the 10 commandments coming down from the mountain top. If you have a better way, do it.
posted by empath at 10:37 AM on January 7, 2011

Speaking of Bad, what a shitty composition on that Tumblr blog. The author has no fucking shift key? I can't be bothered to wade through such irritating text.
posted by Neiltupper at 10:39 AM on January 7, 2011

And here we are on day two with previously available apps already going App Store-only: Pixelmator will only be sold on the App Store from here on out:

The Pixelmator Team doesn’t plan to abandon existing users: anyone who already owns the current version of Pixelmator will get free updates until 2.0 is released. Once 2.0 is out, however, any Pixelmator users who haven’t made the transition will have to buy the new version from the Mac App Store.

Fortunately for users, they're selling it for half price right now ($29.99 instead of $59.99). I wonder whether the market will bear it when they try to raise the price.
posted by immlass at 10:48 AM on January 7, 2011

They're not Human Interface Rules, and even if they were, rules were made to be broken
posted by nomad at 11:19 AM on January 7, 2011

Big secret Verizon event I could not guess what for oh no not at all
posted by Artw at 1:26 PM on January 7, 2011

from Artw's link:

... it's definitely odd that Verizon's in charge and not Apple.

Can someone explain this?

It seems to rest on some common knowledge that I haven't commoned with.
posted by Joe Beese at 2:12 PM on January 7, 2011

I love watching people whine about how Apple is dumb and Apple can't do anything right and they won't ever touch Apple products - all while Apple's market capitalisation climbs - nay, alternately saunters and frolicks - over three hundred *pinky* BILLION dollars.

"I love watching people whine about how Justin Bieber sucks and isn't a real musician - all the while he's had 13 songs climb - nay, alternately saunter and frolick - into the Billboard top 100 and made countless millions."

See how retarded you sound when you pretend popular equals good?

But more seriously, I have no problem with the store, or with most Apple products. I'd even consider buying one of the new Airs. That doesn't change the fact that iTunes for Windows is -- to me -- a POS, or that every Apple device would be better -- for me -- with a standard USB port. Why is it all a pissing match/religious argument?
posted by coolguymichael at 2:20 PM on January 7, 2011

Can someone explain this?

Apple usually announces their own products. ATT has always taken a backseat when new gear is brought out. As far as Apple is concerned, ATT is just one of the many carriers it works with across the world.

Verizon doesn't want to be marginalized, and since they have a better network and would expand Apple's business at a time when iOS clones are putting pressure on their market share, they probably were able to land a different deal with Apple than ATT, and one that gives them more control.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:32 PM on January 7, 2011

Plus as one commenter says, they'd basically be holding a conference to sya "Here's the exact same product as before, but on a different network!" and then... well, I suppose they could big up one network in favour of another, but I doubt it would go down well.
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on January 7, 2011

popular equals good?

From a corporate point of view, it is.

And if you tried to tell me that Justin bieber's songs aren't good at what they were intended to be, I'd say you don't know what you're talking about.
posted by empath at 3:28 PM on January 7, 2011

WSJ confirms the iPhone will come out on Verizon
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:36 PM on January 7, 2011

Gizmodo won't get to go
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:38 PM on January 7, 2011

LMAO.

(Get used to it, Gizmodo. It's gonna be like this until Steve dies, at the very least. (If he dies.) )
posted by entropicamericana at 3:54 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]

Are you kidding? They love that story. They dine out on that story. And it doesn't hamper their coverage a damn bit.
posted by Artw at 5:18 PM on January 7, 2011

(If he dies.)

Praise be to Steve.
posted by kmz at 5:22 PM on January 7, 2011

So will the iPhone support Verizon's 4G?
posted by octothorpe at 5:46 PM on January 7, 2011

So will the iPhone support Verizon's 4G?

Probably not, it's still rolling out. It's CMDA for now is my guess.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:43 PM on January 7, 2011

It should be interesting to see how Apple handles the product life cycles between AT&T and Verizon handsets.
posted by entropicamericana at 6:59 PM on January 7, 2011

I'm gonna ask my friend who had an app featured how many sales he made and will post it here. His sales beforehand were pretty much zero as he had only just launched.
posted by unSane at 8:10 PM on January 7, 2011

(If he dies.)

fear not, for he shall rise again in the third quarter.
posted by bonehead at 8:20 PM on January 7, 2011 [2 favorites]

Brandon Blatcher: "So will the iPhone support Verizon's 4G?

Probably not, it's still rolling out. It's CMDA for now is my guess."

So it'll be the slowest Verizon smartphone by the end of Q2 once all the other manufacturers roll out their LTE handsets?
posted by octothorpe at 5:44 AM on January 8, 2011

Didn't seem to hurt the iPhone 1.0 when it chose Edge over 3G. Apple's more concerned about battery life and it working everywhere(*) instead picking the fancy-sounding option that has a lower battery life an is only better in a very small number of places.

As much as Apple gets dinged for hype, and accurately, they don't do the sort of hype where they give stuff that sounds good and (key phrase here being in-their-opinion) hurts the consumer just for a bullet point. If they think something is worthy, they do it. If not, they won't.

I suspect they're waiting until both carriers are caught up where they're both using the same tech but different bands, so they can just hit 4g with one phone for both. This is expected to be soon enough that it might be the iPhone 5, though that depends on, as entropicamericana alluded to, the odd bit of product cycling that this is going to cause.

Obviously we're all speculating here, but they're educated guesses.


(* I am aware of the irony of expecting AT&T to work everywhere.)
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 6:32 AM on January 8, 2011

So it'll be the slowest Verizon smartphone by the end of Q2 once all the other manufacturers roll out their LTE handsets?

Why would you expect that? For the moment, Apple probably wants to ensure the iPhone s on a large network, so it can reach as many Verizon customers as possible. I doubt they'd keep it on CMDA once LTE is everywhere as opposed to major Metro areas.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:43 AM on January 8, 2011

There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work - on Read the fucking HIG.
posted by Artw at 5:40 PM on January 11, 2011

hey Verizon, what are your iPhone plans gonna cost? Is there a particular reason you haven't told us yet, hmmmm?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:54 AM on January 12, 2011

Plus there'll be a new iPhone in under 6 months with support for the fake 4G.
posted by Artw at 7:22 AM on January 12, 2011

There is no place for just shitting all over other people's work

The good folks at American Standard beg to differ.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:51 AM on January 12, 2011 [2 favorites]

Apple boss Steve Jobs has announced that he is to take "medical leave" from the company.
posted by Artw at 7:46 AM on January 17, 2011

*hugs iPhone*

"It'll be ok, it'll be ok, he'll come back to us"
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:28 AM on January 17, 2011 [1 favorite]

"Oh, my. ... Sir, if any of my circuits or gears will help, I'll gladly donate them!"
posted by entropicamericana at 1:27 PM on January 17, 2011 [2 favorites]