Reports are saying that the gunman shot up to 12 people and was firing indiscriminately. That does not necessarily sound like a political assassination.Reports say that he shot Gifford point blank in the head and then started shooting indiscriminately. It doesn't sound like a well-planned hit, but that doesn't sound random to me, either.
can someone please explain blue dog democrat?The Blue Dog Democrats are a group of Democrats who are generally considered more moderate or conservative than the typical Democrat, though not nearly as conservative as the typical Republican.
God damn it. I really, really hope that this was just a mentally imbalanced kid, but given all the violence from the RW over the past few years against anything seen to be a liberal threat, I would really be surprised if this guy doesn't listen to Glenn Beck every day.These two possibilities are not mutually exclusive.
“Our Founding Fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason, and that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government,”And
“I’m hoping that we’re not getting to Second Amendment remedies,” Angle said. “I hope that the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.posted by orthogonality at 11:15 AM on January 8, 2011 [10 favorites]
After shooting Gifford, the gunman opened fire indiscriminately for a few seconds, firing 20-30 rounds and hitting a number of people, including a kid no older than 10 years old.posted by Flunkie at 11:22 AM on January 8, 2011
Robert Morgan (1776Patroit) wrote: If she voted for ObamaCare, then she has just paid the price for treason. Regardless, I hope she recovers because I sure her family loves her.Gee, I wonder what might have motivated the gunman? Surely not Teabaggery!
My 1st Congress on Your Corner starts now. Please stop by to let me know what is on your mind or tweet me later.posted by Nelson at 11:26 AM on January 8, 2011 [9 favorites]
House Democrats Unleash Rapid AttacksNot, as it turns out, the very same kind, after all.
By CARL HULSE 1:07 PM ET
Being in the minority allows Democrats to assault Republicans with the same kind of attacks that Republicans so effectively used against them.
Update: BoyBlue has made several comments on DailyKos today, including that he was "gonna go" to the rally today. This means that it is unlikely that he shot Giffords. This does not mean that he was not involved, however.I'd laugh if I weren't so pissed off.
My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona.posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 12:09 PM on January 8, 2011
On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.
Books:I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.posted by tapeguy at 1:14 PM on January 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
"According to Miller's teaching, the addition of hyphens and colons to one's name turns one from an ordinary, taxable human into a non-taxable “prepositional phrase.”
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head by a gunman at a public event in Tucson on Saturday. There are conflicting reports about whether she was killed.
She is a pro-gun blue dog who just beat a teabagger who considered Palin too moderate. No, don't jump to conclusions. Could be jilted lover or a nut who had no idea who he was shooting or a million other things.Come on With the hysterical apocalyptic bullshit flying around from the right it's not surprising that something like this would happen. The gunman probably thought he was fighting the conquest of AZ by Mexican demographic reconquest or something like that. Likely the guy was operating alone, but of course he was inspired by the insanity on the right. It wouldn't even be the first time, remember that guy in SF who was going after the Tides foundation (which no one had ever heard of since Beck started freaking out about them?) Or the anti-tax nut flew his plane into the IRS building? There was the guy who shot up the Unitarian church, and the guy who shot George Tiller. All of them were "lone nuts" but they were all motivated by right-wing craziness.
...
I am somewhat heartened to hear that the gunman was apprehended and taken into custody where he or she will be held accountable for his or her actions.
that Gawker story also said Rayle helped hold down the gunman, is a former ER doctor and reported it took EMS 30 minutes to arrive.So he doesn't reload?
WTF? wouldn't you go to the injured first?????
Congress will not give a shit. There will be no hearings, no condemnations of the hate speech which leads to stuff like this, (thankfully) no random bombing of some country with brown people in it in response to this. Hell, I bet the word "terrorism" never even comes up (which is fine, but you know if it was a Republican that's all that would be on every screen, front page and radio bulletin).I don't know, people tend to get a lot more upset about people they know and work with and identify with getting shot in the head then random people.
Jared Loughner's Youtube page:
Books:I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
posted by tapeguy at 1:14 PM on January 8
My Final Thoughts: Jared Lee Loughnerposted by swift at 1:31 PM on January 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
Most people, who read this text, forget in the next 2 second!
The population of dreamers in the United States of America is less than 5%!
If 987,123,478962,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 is the year in B.C.E. then the previous year of 987,123,478962,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 B.C.E. is 987,123,478962,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,619 B.C.E.
987,123,478962,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 is the year in B.C.E.
Therefore, the previous year of 987,123,478962,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,618 B.C.E. is 987,123,478962,876,341,234,671,234,098,601,978,619 B.C.E.
If B.C.E. years are unable to start then A.D.E. years are unable to begin.
B.C.E. years are unable to start.
Thus, A.D.E. years are unable to begin.
If A.D.E. is endless in year then the years in A.D.E. don't cease.
A.D.E. is endless in year.
Therefore, the years in A.D.E. don't cease.
If I teach a mentally capable 8 year old for 20 consecutive minutes to replace an alphabet letter with a new letter and pronunciation then the mentally capable 8 year old writes and pronounces the new letter and pronunciation that's replacing an alphabet letter in 20 consecutive minutes.
I teach a mentally capable 8 year old for 20 consecutive minutes to replace an alphabet letter with a new letter and pronunciation.
Thus, the mentally capable 8 year old writes and pronounces the new letter and pronunciation that replaces an alphabet letter in 20 consecutive minutes.
Every human who's mentally capable is always able to be treasurer of their new currency.
If you create one new currency then you're able to create a second new currency.
If you're able to create second new currency then you're able to create third new currency.
You create one new currency.
Thus, you're able to create a third currency.
You're a treasurer for a new currency, listener?
You create and distribute your new currency, listener?
You don't allow the government to control your grammar structure, listener?
If you create one new language then you're able to create a second new language.
If you're able to create a second new language then you're able to create a third new language.
You create one new language.
Thus, you're able to create a third new language.
All humans are in need of sleep.
Jared Loughner is a human.
Hence, Jared Loughner is in need of sleep.
Sleepwalking.
If I define sleepwalking then sleepwalking is thte act or state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.
I define sleepwalking.
Thus, sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.
All conscience dreaming at this moment is asleep.
Jared Loughner is conscience dreaming at this moment.
Thus, Jared Loughner is asleep.
Terrorist
If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.
I define terrorist.
Thus, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.
If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.
You call me a terrorist.
Thus the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.
Every United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix is receiving one mini bible before the tests.
Jared Loughner is a United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix.
Therefore, Jared Loughner is receiving one mini bible before the tests.
I didn't write a belief on my Army application, and the recruiter wrote on the application: None.
The majority of the citizens of the United States of America have never read the United States of America's Constitution.
You don't have to accept the federalist laws.
Nonetheless, read the United States of America's Constitution to apprehend all of the current treasonous laws.
You're literate, listener?
If the property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land laws from a revolution then the revolutionary's from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.
The property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land laws from a revolution.
Thus, the revolutionary's from the revolution are in control of the land and laws.
In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can't trust the current government because of the ratifications: The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar.
No! I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver!
No! I won't trust in God!
What's government if words don't have meaning?
"No! I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed byposted by octobersurprise at 1:33 PM on January 8, 2011
gold and silver.
Jared Laughner likes:posted by cstross at 1:53 PM on January 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Other
Tea Party Patriots
Sara Palin
All purchases for an educational course in The United States as of now are unconstitutional in the United States of America because of Section 10 in the United States of America's Constitution. A student paying for a Pima Community College course is a purchase for an educational course in the United States as of now. Therefore, a student paying for a Pima Community College course is unconstitutional in the United States of America because of Section 10 in the United States of America's Constitution.Here is Art 1; Section 10 of the constitution...
Section 10.Not sure I see how he makes that leap. So I guess I'm not due a check from the State of Arizona for the tuition I paid at ASU and Scottsdale CC. So, yeah, everyone hears the same thing.
No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.
No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.
No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.?
We don't know that, yet.posted by Flunkie at 1:58 PM on January 8, 2011 [2 favorites]It's not even his name, as has been mentioned several times in this thread.
Yo! I saw what a transexual looks like today; my esteem is better, I don't act like a woman.Granted, lots (and lots, sigh) of kids make that kind of insensitive, ignorant remark. But knowing that Giffords is pro-LGBT, there's ths possibility that Loughner's intolerance could have been yet another part of his motivations.
The shooting comes amid a highly charged political environment that has seen several dangerous threats against lawmakers but nothing that reached the point of actual violence.posted by ericb at 2:18 PM on January 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
... In July, a California man known for his anger over left-leaning politics engaged in a shootout with highway patrol officers after planning an attack on the ACLU and another nonprofit group. The man said he wanted to "start a revolution" by killing people at the ACLU and the Tides Foundation.
Giffords herself has drawn the ire of the right, especially for her support of the health care bill from politicians like Sarah Palin.
Her Tucson office was vandalized a few hours after the House vote to approve the health care law in March, with someone either kicking or shooting out a glass door and window. In an interview after the vandalism, Giffords referred to the animosity against her by conservatives. Palin listed Giffords' seat as one of the top "targets" in the midterm elections because of the lawmakers' support for the health care law.
"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said in an interview with MSNBC.
In the hours after the shooting, Palin issued a statement in which she expressed her "sincere condolences" to the family of Giffords and the other victims.*
Guys, you are losing your minds if you can't take the political blinders off here. Take some time out and think before you keep going down this road.I think it's more the other way around. People who are demanding a-political discussion of this are, in a sense, asking that blinders be put on, that we limit the way we think about this and refuse to connect the dots because the image that emerges is so ugly. I think that's kind of naïve.
A favorite and oft repeated phrase on Metafilter is "correlation does not equal causation."Yeah, and I hate that phrase and complain about it all the time! First of all, your formulation (with 'equal' instead of 'imply') is actually totally wrong. Even the implies form is often misued. What it actually means that if A and B are correlated it does not imply that A causes B. But We do know that there is a causal relationship in some direction, possibly both are caused by some hidden variable.
I have three names but I do not go by all three. I believe it is often the media that uses the three names when reporting on these type things. I assume they would refer to me by all three of my names if I were to assassinate someone.Maybe to make it easier for people with the same name.
The shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is a watershed event in many ways, some of which we cannot yet know, but one of the clearest and simplest is this: Congress and its members are about to be permanently quarantined, physically isolated, from the people it and they represent.posted by ericb at 2:39 PM on January 8, 2011 [8 favorites]
... even more restrictive rules are now inevitable. It's even possible that the general public will be banned from the hallways of the Capitol Complex, at least at certain times and under certain circumstances.
As for personal protection, that is likely to be increased substantially. For the last year or two, some House members and senators have had unpublicized but substantial security details dispatched to their side when deemed warranted.
The Huffington Post has learned that one Democratic senator had a special security detail detailed to him for two weeks after concerns were raised about personal threats.
But rather than have extensive details for each member, the members are likely to change their behavior -- which means they will stay behind closed doors here in DC and in their home districts and states.
Giffords' opponent in the recent election, Jesse Kelly, held a campaign event in June where participants were invited to shoot an automatic weapon with the candidate, which was advertised as a chance to "get on target for victory in November help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office"*posted by ericb at 2:44 PM on January 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
So your idea of a Sharon Angle voter is an early twenties, literate, stoner, atheist who thinks everyone should be able to print their own currency?Of course not, despite the proximity, it's still a different state. But the print their own currency stuff is straight up crazy libertarianism that's popular in the teaparty.
This is what I mean by blinders, take a look at the whole person not just the views that line up the way you want them to and it gets a bit more difficult to assign any blame at this point.Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean the other person had "blinders" on, it just means they've reached different conclusions with the given facts. What facts, specifically do you think people are ignoring?
Dr. Steven Aryle, a hospice doctor who used to work in the emergency department at St. Mary's Hospital, went to the event to meet the congresswoman, whom he'd never met before.Grijalva:
Aryle said he was walking toward her, about 8 to 10 feet away, when he saw a man about 2 feet away from her side shoot her in the head.
There was no warning of the shot, he said. The man didn't say a word.
The congresswoman fell to the ground and a staff member ran to her side. She was conscious and he saw her sitting up against a wall - signs he considered encouraging.
He said he heard another 15 to 20 rounds. He helped hold the suspect down after other witnesses tackled and disarmed him.
'It was surreal. Gunshots sound less real in person," he said. "I thought someone was staging a protest. It just didn't feel real."
Alex Villec, a 19-year-old volunteer, organized the line of constituents when the shooter approached the line outside Safeway.
The shooter said "Can I talk to the congresswoman?", or something to that effect, Villec said. He told him to stand at the back of a line to wait for about 20 minutes.
A few minutes later, the shooter left the back of the line and walked toward Giffords amid a group of 20 to 25 constituents, employees and volunteers.
"He was intent," Villec said. "He was intent when he came back - a pretty stone-cold glance and glare. ... I didn't see his gun, but it was clear who he was going for. He was going for the congresswoman.
"A few staff members were caught in the crossfire ... . His goal was the congresswoman."
The shooter walked past Villec and to his left, past tables and toward Gifford. Villec saw him raise his hand and heard gunshots before ducking behind a pillar and later running across the Safeway parking lot to a bank for safety. "It was bedlam," he said. "People were getting down on the ground. They were screaming. I just did what I could to keep myself protected."
U.S. Rep. Raul Grijalva, Giffords' seatmate from Southern Arizona, said, "It's horrific. It's heartbreaking. It's very frightening. I hope she comes out of it. This is not what public service is all about."posted by carsonb at 3:28 PM on January 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
The heated rhetoric and civil discord creates an environment for something like this to happen, he said.
He lamented a series of incidents demonstrating the buildup that leads to something like this, including an envelope of white powder sent to his Tucson office as well as a shot fired at his Yuma office.
Again, take off the blinders. He is complaining about paying tuition for college, not taxes. I can ASSURE you Sarah Palin does not think tuition is unconstitutional.Okay, it seems obvious that you are using the word "blinders" to mean, "disagree with me" about his motivations. It's kind of obnoxious.
No, I am using blinders to refer to disregarding facts that don't fit your agenda, which to me is the most obnoxious thing in the world. His views on currency are unintelligible but clearly distinct from mainstream tea party thought. I guarantee you they don't think it is workable for everyone to be the treasurer of their own money systems.No, you're using "blinders" to refer to people disagreeing about the implication of various facts. No one is literally denying that he wrote those things in that video. But we disagree that they are that different from what crazy teabaggers have been saying. In fact:
I guarantee you they don't think it is workable for everyone to be the treasurer of their own money systems.Guarentee? Really?
"Federal Reserve Note" (FRN). This means they were authorized for issue by the Federal Reserve System (the Fed), a national bank created by Congress. The legal tender law gives the Fed a monopoly over what you use for money.He's clearly nuts, but the hamming distance isn't all that far away from the conservative craziness that's been stewing. And clearly you are wrong about the "everyone should be able to print their own currency" thing.
When a currency is legal tender you are legally compelled to accept it in payment for debts, even if you've made a contract to be paid in some other currency or commodity, such as gold. The Free Competition in Currency Act would free you to use other currencies, gold, silver, or all of them at the same time, including FRNs
and would make gold contracts legally enforceable in court.
If this seems like a strange new world to you, please realize that you already live in this world to a certain extent.
...
Congressman Paul has hit upon the easiest way to end monetary inflation, and the booms and busts that follow in its wake. Simply repeal the legal tender monopoly enjoyed by FRNs, and the coinage monopoly held by the United States government. Stop taxing exchanges in commodity metals. Allow monetary competition. This would help end inflation. But that's not all . . .
As far as I can tell, using BCE shows you are either a fastidious religious skeptic (who is also a jerk) or a hebrew school teacher. I have never heard anyone else use those terms.Or pretty much any academic historian, archeologist, or scientists. My Experience is that "BC" Is only used casually, while BCE is the technically correct term. Wikipedia seems to use BC though. Hmm.
He literally thinks everyone can create their own legal currency. (AND GRAMMAR) Ron Paul is referring to banks offering currency backed in gold.First of all the doesn't say in that section that the currencies should or should not be backed by gold, but later in the video he does talk about precious metal backing for currency. Second of all, Paul doesn't talk about banks specifically. And in a libertarian fantasy land everyone would be able to start their own bank and thus their own currency.
These are not the same positions.
Imagine the cessation of most or all tours of the Capitol Building. Imagine members significantly rolling back public campaign events or putting them behind huge security barriers. Imagine members traveling most places, if not everywhere, with security details.I'm not sure, there was a shooting in the capitol building during the Clinton administration, and they decided not to close the capitol at that point. This right-wing crazy was in full bloom during the clinton years too. It's just that with the internet it's easier for everyone to see.
He was a match, but the gasoline had long-since been poured by several on the far right again and again... since about the day after Hillary Clinton wasn't likely to become the Democratic Party's nominee back in the summer of 08.I am not so sure about that; I think it was around for far longer than that. It's just that the target switched at that time.
Please forgive and disregard my flippant comment for those who can more accurately explain BCE. Although it might not be fruitful, I do wonder why he used those terms. It is related to his beleif that he is more "literate" than everyone else?
Here's video of the sherriff's comments.Thank you.
"In that third year of the Kennedy Presidency a kind of fever lay over Dallas County. Mad things happened. Huge billboards screamed “Impeach Earl Warren.” Jewish stores were smeared with crude swastikas. Fanatical young matrons swayed in public to the chant, “Stevenson’s going to die–his heart will stop, stop, stop and he will burn, burn burn!” Radical Right polemics were distributed in public schools; Kennedy’s name was booed in classrooms; junior executives were required to attend radical seminars. Dallas had become the mecca for medicine-show evangelists of the National Indignation Convention, the Christian Crusaders, the Minutemen, the John Birch and Patrick Henry societies . . .posted by empath at 6:08 PM on January 8, 2011 [26 favorites]
In Dallas a retired major general flew the American flag upside down in front of his house, and when, on Labor Day of 1963, the Stars and Stripes were hoisted right side up outside his own home by County Treasurer Warren G. Harding–named by Democratic parents for a Republican President in an era when all Texas children were taught to respect the Presidency, regardless of party–Harding was accosted by a physician’s son, who remarked bitterly, “That’s the Democrat flag. Why not just run up the hammer and sickle while you’re at it?" - William Manchester, Death of a President.
We don't know why the Tucson killer did what he did. If he is like Sirhan [Sirhan], we'll never "understand." But we know that it has been a time of extreme, implicitly violent political rhetoric and imagery, including SarahPac's famous bulls-eye map of 20 Congressional targets to be removed -- including Rep. Giffords. It is legitimate to discuss whether there is a connection between that tone and actual outbursts of violence, whatever the motivations of this killer turn out to be. At a minimum, it will be harder for anyone to talk -- on rallies, on cable TV, in ads -- about "eliminating" opponents, or to bring rifles to political meetings, or to say "don't retreat, reload."posted by devinemissk at 8:10 PM on January 8, 2011 [7 favorites]
Not so. Palin put out a map with crosshairs on a map. The "very Congresswoman who was shot" appeared nowhere on that map.wrong I pulled that off Palin's facebook page earlier today, btw. It's Unaltered.
WTF are you both talking about? The tweet still exists, on twitter.com.Uh... I was simply explaining how deletion works on twitter.
"please, people, resist your urge to be helpful ... if the only thing you have to contribute is a diagnosis or medication recommendation you are not qualified to make. "Apologies if you do assessments and this is actually your profession.
-The Straightener
That's like saying I saying that I never considered myself a pirate, except for all that firing of cannons and gripping of teeth-clenched cutlasses in boarding parties.There are a lot of conservatives who support marijuana reform. Most notably Ron Paul and other libertarians.
Palinistas are furious over the accusations. Read here and here (just for starters). They blame the left using a tragedy to score political points. A Palin staffer, Rebecca Mansour told a radio talk show host Saturday that doing so is "obscene" and "appalling." In fact, she said that the "target list" was not intended to allude to guns.link. See guys, it was surveyor's symbols.
"We never ever, ever intended it to be gun sites," she said.
"It's surveyor's symbols," the interviewer Tammy Bruce suggested. Bruce, a Palin supporter, describes herself as "a gay, pro-choice, gun owning, pro-death penalty, Tea Party Independent Conservative. " Her show is promoted as a "chick with a gun and a microphone."
Palinistas are furious over the accusations.There's a shock.
My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona.It's literally screaming with import and hidden meaning. I kid you not. Of all the things she could've added, all the things she's stoked the worst from the nation since August 2008. Never at a loss for the most hateful and petty interpretations, and all the big phony patriotic talk, this is all she's capable of? Shouldn't a potential leader seek to call out our greater angels as a people at a time like this and offer solace and wisdom. No course not Sarah Palin. She sends the victims of this tragedy what amounts to a blow off. Once again a transparently self-serving twit. At the very least she could've condemned these actions in the strongest terms possible, but no, not Sarah Palin.
On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.
Eight hours after the shooting, Hernandez stood with Giffords' friends and staff and told them what had happened. The tall, strong 20-year-old said, “Of course you're afraid, you just kind of have to do what you can.”Goddamn!
They hugged and thanked him. Later, he sat with his mom and sisters and told them about his friends and the staffers who had died that day.
“You just have to be calm and collected," he said. "You do no good to anyone if you have a breakdown… It was probably not the best idea to run toward the gunshots, but people needed help.”
Mansour agreed. She said that the graphic was contracted out to a professional. They approved it quickly without thinking about it.Because that's the kind of people I want in charge of this country. People who approve stuff quickly without thinking about it. (Not that I believe that for one second)
-- John Roll, 63 (See Arizona-Judge-Obit)My heart goes out to all of their families in this time of their loss and sorrow.
A native of Pennsylvania, Roll was a federal judge for the U.S. District Court for the District of Arizona who had served the legal system for nearly 40 years. He began his career as a bailiff in Pima County Superior Court and rose to be chief judge for the District of Arizona, a position he held since 2006. He received death threats two years ago after he ruled that a $32 million civil-rights lawsuit filed by illegal immigrants against a rancher in the state could proceed. He had been assigned to hear the ethnic studies ban case out of Tucson that involves a new law banning certain ethnic studies programs in public schools, according to the lead attorney on the case, Richard Martinez. Chief Justice of the United States John Roberts called Roll's death a tragic loss.
-- Christina Taylor Greene, 9.
She was born on September 11, 2001, according to CNN affiliate KVOA. Family members described her as "excited" about the political process, and that the desire to learn more about it had motivated her to go to the Gifford event, the affiliate said. Christina had just been elected to the student council at her school, the Arizona Republic reported. She died at a hospital, and not at the scene like the other five.
-- Gabe Zimmerman, 30. (See POL-Giffords-Staff-Member-Killed)
A Tucson native who was engaged to be married, Zimmerman was the director of community outreach for the congresswoman.
-- Dorwin Stoddard, 76.
Dory, as his family prefers to call him, was a retired construction worker, said Pastor Mike Nowak at Mount Avenue Church of Christ in Tucson. Witnesses told CNN that Stoddard tried to shield his wife, Mavy (pronounced: Maaah-vee), was shot in the head and fell on her. The wife was shot three times in her legs, the bullets were removed and she is expected to make a full recovery.
-- Dorothy Morris, 76
-- Phyllis Scheck, 79
When the shots began that morning, he saw many people lying on the ground, including a young girl. Some were bleeding. Hernandez said he moved from person to person checking pulses.There is something quietly powerful and human and tender in that description, with him being there and helping and her, however weakly, letting him know she was still alive, fighting and hanging on.
"First the neck, then the wrist," he said. One man was already dead. Then he saw Giffords. She had fallen and was lying contorted on the sidewalk. She was bleeding.
Using his hand, Hernandez applied pressure to the entry wound on her forehead. He pulled her into his lap, holding her upright against him so she wouldn't choke on her own blood. Giffords was conscious, but quiet.
Ron Barber, Giffords' district director, was next to her. Hernandez told a bystander how to apply pressure to one of Barber's wounds.
Barber told Hernandez, "Make sure you stay with Gabby. Make sure you help Gabby."
Hernandez used his hand to apply pressure until someone from inside Safeway brought him clean smocks from the meat department. He used them to apply pressure on the entrance wound, unaware there was an exit wound. He never let go of her.
He stayed with Giffords until paramedics arrived. They strapped her to a board and loaded her into an ambulance. Hernandez climbed in with her. On the ride to the hospital, he held her hand. She squeezed his back.
You know, John Hinckley, Jr. managed to shoot Ronald Reagan (and James Brady) without having ever seen a Sarah Palin website with reticles all over it.I'm confused as to what the point of this statement is. That people can do bad things without Sarah Palin and her ilk consistently making inflammatory statements tinged with hints of violence?
Reporter: Had she been receiving threats recently?posted by Flunkie at 6:31 AM on January 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
Sherriff: Well, I'm not aware of any public officials that have not been receiving threats.
In that event, I would not be surprised if someone like Limbaugh or Colter were to attack it as "playing politics with tragedy".Daniel Hernandez, the intern who may have saved Gifford's lifeBarack Obama needs to call that young man to the Oval Office and hang the Presidential Medal of Freedom around his neck.
"We don't yet know the extent to which the Tucson murders were about politics per se, though the alleged killer apparently did deliberately target a member of Congress. But violent national tragedies such as this one can profoundly affect the temper of the times--and the fate of the presidents who are in office when they happen."</blockquote"posted by ericb at 7:21 AM on January 9, 2011
"The Pima County Sheriff's Department has released a photograph of a man they believe may be associated with Jared Lee Loughner: 'He is described as a Caucasian male, approximately 40-50 years old, dark hair and was last seen wearing blue jeans and a dark blue jacket.'"posted by ericb at 8:35 AM on January 9, 2011
"The investigation has been taken over by the FBI, and is being run through the Tucson Command Post. Here's what can be confirmed at this time (1800 hrs)...posted by crayz at 10:27 AM on January 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
* Gabrielle Giffords Is in ICU.
* Federal judge John Roll is deceased. He did rule on a 32 million dollar civil rights lawsuit in February, 2010. That ruling brought death threats to Roll and his family, and for a time he was given a protection detail.
* 6 deaths attributed to the shooting. 19 total people hit by gunfire.
* suspect’s mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors
* the suspect has multiple arrests ... But no criminal record? Intervention by someone?
* no direct connection - but strong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.
* DHS have a list of names and dates of birth of all victims.
* the ACTIC is still playing a major role in the investigation... Computer forensics is cleaning up the surveillance videos, and images from around the scene, and involved in the investigation - working together, was MCSO, DPS, Phoenix PD, ICE, and of course the FBI. It did just come in from the command post, that the federal judge was Not originally scheduled to attend the meeting, according to wife. She stated that he received a phone call about an hour before and was invited to attend. Wrong place - wrong time. For the planning side, there are impromptu memorials popping up all over the state, but the largest one is downtown phoenix, at the capital."
"They're surveyor's marks" came because they're ashamed. And because they're too cowardly to own up and too dumb not to shut up.A good start would be to shame RepublicansHAHAHAHAHAH! After "they're surveyor's marks", 8 years of Bush and thousands of hours of Fox news, you think this is possible? Good luck!
Air America Host 'Jokingly' Calls for Bush HitWhy is it always necessary to look for someone to blame OTHER than the perpetrator of the act?
One of the leading hosts on the unofficial radio network of the Democratic Party recommended in an apparent "joke" earlier this week that President Bush should be assassinated, reports the New York Daily News.
Comparing Bush and his family to the Corleones of "Godfather" fame, Air America host Randi Rhodes reportedly unleashed this zinger during her Monday night broadcast: "Like Fredo, somebody ought to take him out fishing and phuw. "
Rhodes then imitated the sound of a gunshot.
I don't understand subscribing to a YouTube channel that's almost definitely going to be defunct. Especially when it's the channel of the person who shot you.I'm fairly confident that Congresswoman Giffords isn't the one who subscribed.
"Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was in critical condition Sunday as investigators filed five charges against the man suspected in the shooting rampage that killed six and injured 14.posted by ericb at 1:04 PM on January 9, 2011
Jared Loughner is charged with one count of attempted assassination of member of Congress, two counts of killing an employee of the federal government and two counts of attempting to killing a federal employee."*
"Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was in critical condition Sunday as investigators filed five charges against the man suspected in the shooting rampage that killed six and injured 14.Is he not being charged for the other people who were murdered and injured? Or would those charges come out later as state crimes rather than federal crimes?
Jared Loughner is charged with one count of attempted assassination of member of Congress, two counts of killing an employee of the federal government and two counts of attempting to killing a federal employee."
Investigators said they carried out a search warrant at the suspect's home and seized an envelope from a safe with messages such as "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and the name "Giffords" next to what appears to be the man's signature.posted by Flunkie at 1:15 PM on January 9, 2011
I'm here in the house for a hot twenty minutes and then on my way to a meeting and back to Sacramento by way of San Francisco. But there was time to read your letter and get this quick note off. ....posted by blucevalo at 1:52 PM on January 9, 2011
You mentioned the mental health ruckus. It's just part of the general rebellion stirred up by some of the die-hards who resist and reduction in the size of government. Some years ago California started on a new concept of mental health care that has put us pretty much up front in that field. The old-fashioned concept was literally warehousing mental patients -- putting them in mental institutions and leaving them there for life. Out here we are curing the curables and thanks to the new tranquilizer drugs doing a good job of getting our patients back into a normal life.
We have a number of local care centers and the released patients continue getting care and treatment while they go about their daily lives. These local centers are run by the counties with the state putting up most of the money. Incidentally we've added $6 million to the budget for these local centers this year. Naturally this has had an effect on the hospitals. In 1960 we had a patient population of 36,000. This year, thanks to our new concept it is down to 23,000. In the meantime though because government just does grow we increased hospital employees by 1,000. All we are doing is reducing employees this year to maintain the present ratio of 2 2/3 patients to 1 employee. Some of the head-shrinkers are upset because they'd like private rooms for each patient with the round-the-clock private nurses. That's about all there is to it which proves how easy it is to get a scream of pain when someone's pet program is stepped on.
Must run now ....
Best Regards,
Ron
Popular spokespeople like Ms. Palin routinely drop words like 'tyranny' and 'socialism' when describing the president and his allies, as if blind to the idea that Americans legitimately faced with either enemy would almost certainly take up arms.So "socialism" is an "enemy" that would legitimize taking up arms? How much socialism, Matt? Is Social Security enough, or do you have to have Medicare, too? How about a national health service? Would that be? UK would like to know.
Do they think that if they acknowledge any others in the political spectrum as human they're retreatingI don't know. But it would explain why they're reloading.
The current cycle will likely peak next spring. The usual pattern is for the Patriots to ride on the energy of electoral cycles and then the more violent ones will have a temper tantrum (usually in the form of mass killings) in the spring after the federal elections. You may recall the last cycle turned violent in 1995, six months after the right-wing frenzy gained the Republicans control of the House of Representatives for the first time since the Depression. The crazies like Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph don't have any investment in electoral politics, but they are activated by political agitation and take the hot air coming from the far right as encouragement and approval for their own extremism.posted by Skygazer at 2:57 PM on January 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
"Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger."If people get bombarded by things that prey on their insecurities, or call out to people's acceptance of the overall bs narrative that has long existed in this country (It's amazing to see people with "native [state]" bumper stickers), one lousy person rejecting it isn't going to do anything long-lasting. No, these people in power, these broadcast networks, these constant shit stirrers have to be focused upon, I think.
“The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong,” says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon — known as “backfire” — is “a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.”
I originally made a non-fighty comment about the death of a child.The following is non-fighty?
I just want to be clear about something. A nine year old girl was killed, right? And people here are arguing politics? Fucking MetaFilter, how does it work?posted by Flunkie at 4:32 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'll take pretty much any odds you want to offer that a sarcastic lefty posted that.Yes, of course. That's not the point. The point is that it was not deleted, while anything perceived as an attack on Palin was.
Some of the evidence seized from that location included a letter in a safe ... from Congresswoman Giffords ... dated August 30, 2007 ... Also recovered in the safe was an envelope with handwriting on the envelope stating "I planned ahead," and "My assassination" and the name "Giffords" ...so there's not really any evidence to be drawn regarding timing here...
"But the weapons don't kill people, it's he individual that kills -- that killed these people."Absolutely. If it hadn't been a 30-clip Glock, it would've been one of those rapid-fire crossbows you see in action movies where everybody has a special weapon, a bandoleer of throwing knives or shuriken that ninjas always have or maybe a pair of swords or sai like Daredevil's opponents are typically equipped with. They're all exactly the same thing, equally deadly. Blaming the gun is just bad aim.
You can blow out a candlePeter Gabriel, Biko.
But you can't blow out a fire
Once the flames begin to catch
The wind will blow it higher
We all talk about the power of peer pressure, but "pressure" may be overstating the case. Peer perception is plenty. In this entire book, you may not find a single statement that is so rigorously supported by empirical research as this one: You are doing things because you see your peers do them. . . . Behavior is contagious. . . . [examples and case studies, including how the concept of "designated driver" went from nonexistent in US culture to normal] . . . [in some cases,] to unleash change, . . . [it's necessary to tell] supporters, 'It's safe to get vocal now.' . . . [in order to] unleash the believers [you] already [have].You have standing and the respect of your conservative community, which must include others who, like you, have the integrity to recognize and condemn thought-free, knee-jerk, inflammatory, polarizing rhetoric. Probably all they need to stand up and speak out against it is for someone like you to go first. They respect you. Won't they follow your lead in speaking up for civility and against dehumanization?
One could be shocked, but hardly surprised, by the news that on Saturday morning the Arizona congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords, had been shot while meeting with her constituents outside a Safeway supermarket in suburban Tucson, and that the gunman had killed six of the people who were with her, including a federal judge and a nine-year-old girl. It was an event that seemed to grow out of America's present disturbed and angry climate, like a killer-tornado or hurricane: awful, yes, but part of the weather, and, in some sense, only to be expected.posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:31 PM on January 9, 2011
The point is that there’s room in a democracy for people who ridicule and denounce those who disagree with them; there isn’t any place for eliminationist rhetoric, for suggestions that those on the other side of a debate must be removed from that debate by whatever means necessary.posted by memebake at 3:50 AM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Joe exercised appropriate judgement, in not pulling his weaponYeah imagine if the bystandards had seen another gunman running at them.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that it's possible that Loughner had carried a grudge against Giffords ever since he asked her a nonsensical question at an event in 2007 and she ignored him.Huh. That's not "ignoring" him. That's the exact opposite of ignoring him.
Mr. Loughner said he asked the lawmaker, "How do you know words mean anything?" recalled Mr. Montanaro. He said Mr. Loughner was "aggravated" when Ms. Giffords, after pausing for a couple of seconds, "responded to him in Spanish and moved on with the meeting."
Mental illness cited in 1989 murder case of man shot county officialposted by cashman at 8:25 AM on January 10, 2011 [12 favorites]
PHOENIX (AP) - The man who shot and wounded a county official had been acquitted of murder in a 1982 slaying - a case that saw a psychiatrist assess the man's confession as the product of a "disordered and deluded mind." Larry Marvin Naman, 49, remained jailed Thursday in lieu of $1 million bond, charged with attempted murder in the wounding Wednesday of Supervisor Mary Rose Wilcox as she left a supervisors meeting. Wilcox, who was hit in the pelvis, was in good condition Thursday at Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center.
Naman on Wednesday admitted shooting Wilcox, telling reporters he was angered by her support of a tax that supervisors approved in 1994 to help pay for a new baseball stadium to be used by the expansion Arizona Diamondbacks. Records from Naman's 1989 trial in the April 10, 1982 slaying of James Roth in Tempe indicated that a jury acquitted him in less than two hours after a two-day trial. Neither the prosecution nor defense attorneys who handled the case returned telephone calls immediately Thursday, but court records indicated that the main evidence against Naman was his Nov. 11, 1988 confession to a Scottsdale police officer. Naman admitted to four slayings, including the one in Tempe, when the officer approached Naman and questioned him as he sat on a curb, according to Jan. 26, 1989 legal pleading by the prosecutor on the case. An April 10, 1989, letter to Naman's defense lawyer by a psychiatrist who examined Naman said he had a "major mental illness that included delusions." Naman was hospitalized in Oregon in 1973 "for what appeared to be a depressive disorder" and his family apparently had "a grossly positive history for mental illness," Dr. Jack Potts wrote. While he could not conclude whether Naman could have or did kill anybody, Potts said the confession "very well could have been a product of his disordered and deluded mind." A release questionnaire filled out by police after Naman's 1988 arrest said he was a transient. On a separate form, Naman said he had a general delivery address in Tempe "on and off for years" and lived previously at "various locations." He listed no income, savings or family.
Wilcox's husband, former state Rep. Earl Wilcox, said he and his wife forgave Naman. "If we can't practice that, we're not up to our (Christian) beliefs," he said. Wilcox, a Phoenix Democrat and former City Council member, was the only supervisor to attend the 1995 groundbreaking for the stadium. Her husband said she continued to support it as an economic development tool and a long-term benefit for the community. Citizen activists have criticized the supervisors for not putting the tax to a public vote, and two of the three supervisors who voted with Wilcox for the tax subsequently lost elections - one for re-election and the second for Congress. Also Thursday, county officials announced plans to tighten security at the county administration building and the supervisors lobby, including installation of metal detectors and adding more guards and surveillance cameras.
Meanwhile, Earl Wilcox said his wife stood by comments she made in a newspaper interview while under sedation Wednesday evening, blaming the attack on "hate radio." "I think they've wound people up in a frenzy. I hope the hate that's spewed out of these stations will stop,"' she told The Arizona Republic without pointing to any station. Earl Wilcox declined to specify any station but said she "had been subjected to a lot of abuse" since she voted for the stadium tax.
KFYI-AM radio talk host Bob Mohan, who has been outspoken in criticizing Wilcox, said on the air after the shooting that he expected to blamed but said it would be unfair. On the air Thursday, he denounced the shooting and callers who welcomed it. "If you don't like (the stadium tax) ... vote them out. Put the guns away," he said. The Wilcoxes credited a county security officer with deflecting the gun, possibly saving her life. Darrell Marr told reporters Thursday he was just doing his job when he rushed Naman after spotting him approaching Wilcox while carrying a paper bag.
Every two years we hold elections so that sane Americans can make a judgment on the policies of President Obama, John Boehner, tea party candidates and so on. But even though the people have recently had their say, in a typically raucous but entirely nonviolent fashion, we are supposed to put that aside and assess what a murderer with a mental illness has to tell us about the state of American politics, government and our national dialogue.(my emphasis). Most of this had me thinking, well, thats a reasonable counterpoint. But then the bit in bold struck me as sophistry, as if its the winning entry in a competition to turn someones argument back on them in the least number of words possible.
This line of argument is itself an attack on democratic discourse, and it is amazing that it even needs to be rebutted. Taking such an argument seriously will only encourage more crazy people to believe they can trigger a national soul-searching if they shoot at a political target. We should denounce the murders and the murderer, rather than doing him the honor of suggesting that his violence flows in any explainable fashion from democratic debate.
Tierney was surprised when Loughner said he had quit partying "completely." Loughner, according to Tierney, said, "I'm going to lead a more healthy lifestyle, not smoke cigarettes or pot anymore, and I'm going to start working out." Tierney was happy for his friend: "I said, 'Dude, that's awesome.' And the next time I saw him he was 10 pounds lighter." Tierney never saw Loughner smoke marijuana again, and he was surprised at media reports that Loughner had been rejected from the military in 2009 for failing a drug test: "He was clean, clean. I saw him after that continuously. He would not do it."When I heard he was a "stoner", my first thought was "weed and schizophrenia do not mix." (Of course, same goes for booze. But you've got to drink a lot more booze to get paranoid.) But from what I've seen, what can mix even worse is garden variety alienation and cold-turkey from weed. That can be really ugly. Whether it's that the weed was conditioning your thoughts in certain ways, or that your thoughts were being suppressed by the weed, or something else, I've seen people get really aggressive and nasty and scary when they're going off weed. Sometimes paranoid and aggressive.
After Loughner apparently gave up drugs and booze, "his theories got worse," Tierney says. "After he quit, he was just off the wall." And Loughner started to drift away from his group of friends about a year ago. By early 2010, dreaming had become Loughner's "waking life, his reality," Tierney says. "He sort of drifted off, didn't really care about hanging out with friends. He'd be sleeping a lot." Loughner's alternate reality was attractive, Tierney says. "He figured out he could fly." Loughner, according to Tierney, told his friends, "I'm so into it because I can create things and fly. I'm everything I'm not in this world."
Tierney, who's also 22, recalls Loughner complaining about a Giffords event he attended during that period. He's unsure whether it was the same one mentioned in the charges—Loughner "might have gone to some other rallies," he says—but Tierney notes it was a significant moment for Loughner: "He told me that she opened up the floor for questions and he asked a question. The question was, 'What is government if words have no meaning?'"and
"He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question.' Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."
Giffords' answer, whatever it was, didn't satisfy Loughner. "He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question,' and I told him, 'Dude, no one's going to answer that,'" Tierney recalls. "Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."
Loughner would occasionally mention Giffords, according to Tierney: "It wasn't a day-in, day-out thing, but maybe once in a while, if Giffords did something that was ridiculous or passed some stupid law or did something stupid, he related that to people.So he followed political discourse about Giffords. He was sure to have found other people who oppose her and who do so with a lot of violent imagery.
The new House speaker, Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, denounced the attack in an early Sunday appearance in West Chester, his hometown, and said it was a reminder that public service “comes with a risk.”Sometimes I read something that makes me so outraged on so many levels that I feel like my brain is chasing its own tail.
"Then suddenly Vince [Omniaveritas] slipped on the slick footing of a copy of OMNI and crashed into his massive bank of computers... Big zaps of electricity jumped out of all this Frankenstein equipment which literateurs were not meant to know, and given all the paper, the whole place went up as fast as Shepard's reputation... Sue Denim sneaked out by disguising herself as a progressive feminist writer, and the last thing we heard was Vince screaming, "I meant Spider Robinson, youposted by lodurr at 5:30 PM on January 10, 2011
assholes."
And especially, be willing to justify what the people you approve of might say, and not hold them to the same standard.The people I approve of don't say "I'm hoping that we're not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems."
Cutting that Gas line doesn't seem so bad now does it?...What?..... Too Soon?Just to remind people, this guy posted the address of the brother of Rep. Tom Perriello telling T-Partiers they should "drop by" & thank him for his vote in favor of health care reform. Whereupon the Rep's brother discovered his home's gas line had been cut. Yeah, it's definitely too soon. Whatever your day job is, don't quit it cause Sam Kinison you ain't.
There comes a point where you can nuance yourself right out of reality, where the stories you're telling yourself to justify your own opinions lead you to a perverse place where reality doesn't reach you.Indifference isn't hate. Disagreement isn't hate. Looking at your opinions and going "Okay..." and then not paying them attention isn't hate.
So you WANT Second Amendment remedies, and support those who do? Who adovcate using firearms instead of voting?Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Kudos on your deductive powers.
So here we are again, stunned by a tragedy. We have been visited by this demon before. Our hearts go out to those who have been injured or killed and their loved ones.posted by hippybear at 8:48 PM on January 10, 2011 [24 favorites]
How do you make sense of these kinds of senseless situations? Is really the question that seems to be on everyone's mind, and I don't know if there is a way to make sense of this sort of thing.
As I watch the political pundit world, many are reflecting and grieving and trying to figure things out. But it's definitely true that others are working feverishly to find the tidbit or two that will exonerate their side from blame or implicate the other. And watching that is as predictable, I think, as it is dispiriting.
Did the toxic political environment cause this?
A graphic image here, an ill-timed comment, violent rhetoric? Those types of things? I have no fucking idea.
You know, we live in a complex ecosystem of influences and motivations, and I wouldn't blame our political rhetoric any more than I would blame heavy metal music for Columbine.
And by the way, that is coming from someone who truly hates our political environment. It is toxic. It is unproductive. But to say that is what has caused this, or that the people in that are responsible for this, I just don't think you can do.
Boy, would that be nice! Boy, would it be nice to be able to draw a straight line of causation from this horror to something tangible. Because then we could convince ourselves that if we just stop this, the horrors will end. You know, to have the feeling, however fleeting, that this type of event can be prevented forever.
But it's hard not to feel like it can't. You know, you cannot outsmart crazy. You don't know what a troubled mind will get caught on. Crazy always seems to find a way. It always has.
Which is not to suggest that resistance is futile. It sounded pretty dark, what I just said there, now that I reconsider it in my own head. "Crazy people rule us all!"
I don't think that's true, but...
And I do think it's important for us to watch our rhetoric. I do think it's a worthwhile goal. Not to conflate our political opponents with enemies. If for no other reason, than to draw a better distinction between the manifestos of paranoid madmen, and what passes for acceptable political and pundit speak.
You know, it would be really nice if the ramblings of crazy people didn't in any way resemble how we actually talk to each other on TV. Let's at least make troubled individuals easier to spot.
And, you know, again. It is, to see good people like this hurt, it is so grievous and it causes me such sadness. But again, I refuse to give in to that feeling of despair. There is light in this situation.
I urge everyone -- read up about those who were hurt and/or killed in this shooting. You will be comforted by just how much anonymous goodness there really is in the world. You read about these people and you realize that people that you don't even know, that you have never met, are leading lives of real dignity and goodness.
And you hear about crazy, but it's rarer than you think. And I think you'll find yourself even more impressed with Congresswoman Giffords and amazed at how much living the deceased packed into lives that were cut way too short.
And if there is real solace in this, I think it's that for all the hyperbole and the vitriol that's become part of our political process, when the reality of that rhetoric... when actions match the disturbing nature of words... we haven't lost our capacity to be horrified.
And please, let us hope we never do. Let us hope we never become numb to what real horror, to what the real blood of patriots looks like when it is spilled. Maybe it helps us to remember to match our rhetoric with reality more often. Because the reality of dangerous rhetoric is, I think, even those that speak hyperbolically, I think all of them tonight would absolutely recoil and say "Wow!. You know. I think that's... You know... That is not the picture of what we were discussing and what we were talking about. And I have to remember that there is a reality to that situation that we can't approach verbally."
Because someone or something will shatter our world again.
And wouldn't it be a shame if we didn't take this opportunity, and the loss of these incredible people and the pain of what their loved ones are going through right now... Wouldn't it be a shame if we didn't that moment to make sure that the world that we are creating now that will ultimately be shattered again by a moment of lunacy... Wouldn't it be a shame if that world wasn't better than the one we'd previously lost?
So, how will we process this tonight? Absolutely no idea.
We'll come back. I'll show a field piece about something incredibly stupid and silly. Dennis Leary will come out here. He and I will, most likely, insult each other playfully. And then tomorrow, you know, we go back to trying to do what we normally do. Which is highlight absurdity in a comical way that is a catharsis for people, and not a sadness.
So, thank you for listening. I know this is probably more helpful for me than it is for you. But we'll be right back.
It’s important to be clear here about the nature of our sickness. It’s not a general lack of “civility,” the favorite term of pundits who want to wish away fundamental policy disagreements. Politeness may be a virtue, but there’s a big difference between bad manners and calls, explicit or implicit, for violence; insults aren’t the same as incitement.posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:57 PM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Judging by flunkie's post under yours, I should take his statement at face value.Again, you have hit it on the nose. Square on the nose.
Ah. So if somebody puts a Palin effigy's head in a noose we can expect a necktie party starring Herself for real any day now? Can I quote you on that?People putting Palin in nooses aren't running for office. There are certainly left-wing cranks on the internet, but the question here is the tone of the elites. The fact that you can compare Glen Beck to some random anonymous blogger doesn't mean that "The Left" and "the Right" are comparable.
Shooting plus two minutes: "LOOK! Sarah Palin's website has GUNSIGHTS on Giffords' district! HOW DARE SHE!"She could have avoided the situation by not having gun sights up in the first place.
Shooting plus four minutes: "LOOK! Sarah Palin's website DOESN'T have GUNSIGHTS on Gifford's district! HOW DARE SHE!"
Is that Catch 23 or 24?
This is, unfortunately, the same false equivalence that Jon Stewart trots out all too frequently. As Krugman notes, there's a world of difference between saying two sides are being uncivil, and one side (via Palin and Brewer) calling for the violent overthrow of elected government officials on the other.Yeah. There is a big difference between something like Doom and Marilyn Manson using dark imagry in art and conspiracy theorists who and extreme right-wingers who use violet and eliminationist rhetoric. The difference is that the artistic stuff is fantasy. It's an escape. But the violent political rhetoric is presented as real. It's presented as something that's actually happening in the world and actually putting you and all of society at risk.
Mark Ames writes in Vanity Fair that this is America's first hybrid political assassination/'gone-postal' rampage.Hmm... what about the guy who tried to kill George Wallice?
Then criticize her for that. You don't get to criticize her for having them, then criticize her for taking them down.Shooting plus two minutes: "LOOK! Sarah Palin's website has GUNSIGHTS on Giffords' district! HOW DARE SHE!"She could have avoided the situation by not having gun sights up in the first place.
Shooting plus four minutes: "LOOK! Sarah Palin's website DOESN'T have GUNSIGHTS on Gifford's district! HOW DARE SHE!"
Is that Catch 23 or 24?
...she tries to delete the evidence, fails, and tries to pass off target crosshairs as surveyor's marks.
Sorry Flunkie, but that just seems like you're trying to make an exception for someone you don't want to criticise. If it's absurd for Palin's camp to claim they were surveyors marks (which it is) then it's at least as absurd to claim that's supposed to be a camera.posted by Flunkie at 5:56 AM on January 11, 2011
I've used dozens of cameras from many eras, and I've NEVER seen a camera viewfinder that looks like that. Never. I've also used rifles with telescopic sights - they look like that.
It's clear from the context that the "focus of investigation" is what he was illustrating, but he chose to illustrate it with the gun sight for a reason.
The Republican vice presidential candidate attracted criticism for accusing Mr Obama of "palling around with terrorists", citing his association with the sixties radical William Ayers. The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling "terrorist" and "kill him" until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.posted by Rhaomi at 10:45 AM on January 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further. The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin's attacks.
as long as we continue to play this foolish game of "both sides are just as bad," and rely on trusty old ablism to dismiss Jared Lee Loughner as a crackpot—dutifully ignoring that people with mental illness are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators; carefully pretending that the existence of people with mental illness who are potentially dangerous somehow absolves us of responsibility for violent rhetoric, as opposed to serving to underline precisely why it's irresponsible—it will be inevitable again. [my emphasis]I dug up the video of Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama, not to hear him talking about his endorsement, but to remind myself what an intellectually honest conservative "leader" looks like -- he calls out his own party for polarizing, Othering, demonizing rhetoric at 3:40, and 4:30 to 6:20. "Demagoguery," he says, right at the end. No calls for silencing. He only explains his thinking, names the problem, and throughout, calmly, repeatedly, unequivocally disassociates himself from it.
I usually feel like I understand Palin's strategy and motives, even if I think they're scummy. I have no idea what the hell she's doing here.She's not retreating, she's reloading.
I doubt that she knew its historical context... because she's not particularly intelligent, she's far from thoughtful, and she obviously has little to no knowledge of history.
Look, I hate the political rhetoric in this country. I do hate the tone that it takes on both sides of the aisle, but on the Republican side especially, because, as has been pointed out numerous times here, Palin and Beck and Bachmann and the birthers and Coulter and Limbaugh and Savage and many, many others say deplorable, terrible things that, were you to take them at their word, would suggest that they can only be delighted that a Democratic Congresswoman got shot in the head. If it sometimes sounds like I complain about liberals more than conservatives, it's only because I have greater expectations for liberals, and because I feel like I have a better chance of influencing people on my team.posted by shakespeherian at 8:33 AM on January 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
And when something terrible like this shooting occurs and my political allies immediately blame my political foes, even though there isn't yet any evidence to know either way, it's my impression that it makes us look like bitter, partisan snipers who won't hesitate to exploit a tragedy to score a point for our team. And I don't want my team to look like that.
And if Loughner holds a press conference in five minutes where he says 'I wish it had been Imam Hussein Obama, that Kenyan socialist,' I will happily, and angrily, put a mountain of blame for this shooting on the violent and lie-filled rhetoric of the political right. But he hasn't done that yet, and nobody knows if he will. And that's my point.
But identifying and proving the truth about those unspoken messages is difficult to impossible, and it's going to be denied in the usual quarters, which shouldn't surprise anyone. Moreover, even asserting that that hidden agenda exists will inevitably elicit a paranoid response that might exacerbate the situation. So I'm not sure what needs to be done. A good start, though, might be for all of us in the media business to admit that this might be on us, that the built-in professional incentives in our field are often wrong for society, and that we should at least start talking about what we need to do to change that.posted by Mental Wimp at 9:47 AM on January 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
The term “blood libel” has taken on a broad metaphorical meaning in public discourse. Although its historical origins were in theologically based false accusations against the Jews and the Jewish People, its current usage is far broader. I myself have used it to describe false accusations against the State of Israel by the Goldstone Report. There is nothing improper and certainly nothing anti-Semitic in Sarah Palin using the term to characterize what she reasonably believes are false accusations that her words or images may have caused a mentally disturbed individual to kill and maim. The fact that two of the victims are Jewish is utterly irrelevant to the propriety of using this widely used term."Yeah, it's a link to a Breitbart site. Get over it.
Luckily when you go outside, your car is there, without so much as a scratch. It probably wasn't you that killed the pedestrian.Is this a trick question? Because I'm going with "C) Compare myself to a Holocaust victim".
Do you
A) Take this opportunity to evaluate what you are doing with your life?
B) Go out and get drunk to celebrate your good luck?
The term 'blood libel' is not a synonym for 'false accusation,' " said Simon Greer, president of Jewish Funds for Justice. "It refers to a specific falsehood perpetuated by Christians about Jews for centuries, a falsehood that motivated a good deal of anti-Jewish violence and discrimination. Unless someone has been accusing Ms. Palin of killing Christian babies and making matzoh from their blood, her use of the term is totally out of line."posted by scody at 12:16 PM on January 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm trying to find another way to interpret this other then, "If you accuse me of this my crazy base will get violent." but I can't quite find it.She's saying that hatred and violence is being incited against her. She's the victim.
This is the gay equivalent of the medieval (and Islamist) blood-libel against Jews.In (I think) all of the quoted examples, the user of the phrase "blood libel" is aware that it is a highly charged phrase with a specific historical context, and the user carefully supplies that context to the reader.
“We’re not painting all Jews as thieves for Madoff’s economic crimes,” said Weinstein, comparing Palin’s comments to a “blood libel.”
"When we 'take up our arms,' we're talking about our vote"Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Palin, who is so expert in capturing the feelings, frustrations and hopes of a certain segment of the population, demonstrated no range. She offered nothing to meet this moment. Her remarks were defensive, illogical, and distracting.posted by scody at 2:32 PM on January 12, 2011 [24 favorites]
Her use of the term blood libel to categorize the attacks against her and other conservatives was the chatter of the social networks in which she communicates. The term—a slur alluding to the idea that Jews feed on the blood of Christians—was, at the very least, a bad word choice. It did not convey her meaning clearly. She confused or alienated anyone she was trying to convince. And if it was meant to address only her base of core supporters, then it was an act of ill-timed agitation.
Palin effectively quoted Ronald Reagan arguing that the criminal alone is responsible for the crime. "Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them," she said. Good. Then she went on to say that "journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn." Bad. You can't argue that words don't create criminals and then argue in the next breath that, actually, yes, they might.
The narcissism required, on a day the nation is commemorating the Arizona shooting victims, to put her own sense of victimhood front and center, is stunning. The "blood libel" idiocy may be the worst of it, especially given that Giffords herself is Jewish. But that's not the only thing wrong with her performance. Hilariously, after all the times she's mocked President Obama for using a teleprompter, you can see a teleprompter screen reflected in her eyeglasses throughout much of her Facebook chat. Seeing the flickering teleprompter in her eyes is eerie; it's where some flicker of her soul should be, but you don't see any. Looking into Palin's eyes, you see a blazing, self-pitying anger that's shocking, even for the self-described "pit bull in lipstick."posted by scody at 2:36 PM on January 12, 2011 [17 favorites]
I can't help thinking that her writers and advisors are actually very very smart peopleI wouldn't be so sure about that. After the 2008 election, it came out pretty quickly that Palin infuriated many of the behind-the-scenes people in the McCain campaign for not trusting any of them, not doing what any of them said, and generally treating them like scum.
"House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand and Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, all close friends of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, were in the hospital room with the Arizona Democrat when she opened her eyes for the first time since she was shot in the head Saturday during a rampage that killed six in Tucson, Ariz. "posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 6:35 PM on January 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Used the blood libel quote for Tea Party Jesus today. I have to say, this is one of my favorite pictures I've ever found for the comic.EarBucket, am I parsing that correctly, in that you are the person who makes Tea Party Jesus?
[Boehner] attended an organizing event for Maria Cino, whom he's supporting to chair the RNC. But though that may have entailed chatting up donors over cocktails, [Michael] Steel says he spoke for three minutes and left the event in time to watch Obama's speech on television.The Nazi dress-up guy thing was back before the election.
Police say Jared Loughner, the suspect in the Arizona shooting rampage ... posed in photos with a Glock 9mm while wearing a red g-string, according to a report. ... according to police, in some photos Loughner is holding the weapon by his crotch; in others, apparently taken in a mirror, he is holding it near his buttocks.posted by crunchland at 1:41 PM on January 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Now we’ve settled into the by-any-means-necessary argument: anything that gets us to focus on the rhetoric and tamp it down is a good thing. But a wrong in the service of righteousness is no less wrong, no less corrosive, no less a menace to the very righteousness it’s meant to support.posted by BobbyVan at 2:31 PM on January 15, 2011
You can’t claim the higher ground in a pit of quicksand.
Concocting connections to advance an argument actually weakens it. The argument for tonal moderation has been done a tremendous disservice by those who sought to score political points in the absence of proof.
It occurs to me that Eric Fuller--a guy who was recently nearly killed in an assault by a would be political/apolitical (take your pick, though I think you'd be mistaken to pick the latter) assassin on a Democratic congressperson--might all by himself, for reasons independent of popular opinion, feel that his life has been threatened by the tenor of the political rhetoric of a "movement" that has, among other things, exhorted its followers to appear heavily armed with firearms at town hall meetings to "send a message."CNN: Shooting victim apologizes for 'misplaced outrage' at Tea Party leader
"I would like to tender my sincerest apologies to Mr. (Trent) Humphries for my misplaced outrage on Saturday at the St. Odelia's town meeting," Fuller said in the statement. "It was not in the spirit of our allegiance and warm feelings to each other as citizens of our great country."posted by BobbyVan at 8:44 AM on January 18, 2011
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was able to stand on her own two feet today, with assistance, and UMC Dr. Peter Rhee confirms that "aggressive rehab" has already begun for the congresswoman recovering from a traumatic brain injury.posted by maudlin at 11:44 PM on January 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
Earlier today, Giffords also sat in a chair and looked out at the Catalina Mountains from her hospital room, Dr. Rhee says.
There was one observation that was made this week I just have to pass on to you by a friend of mine, Allen Ginsberg, who is an historian up in Maine.posted by Rhaomi at 12:43 PM on January 20, 2011 [19 favorites]
And he said, "This week we saw a white, Catholic, Republican federal judge murdered on his way to greet a Democratic woman member of Congress, who was his friend and who was Jewish. Her life was saved initially by a 20-year-old Mexican-American college student, who saved her, and, eventually, by a Korean-American combat surgeon... and then it was all eulogized and explained by our African-American president."
And, in a tragic event, that's a remarkable statement about the country.
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posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:33 AM on January 8, 2011 [1 favorite]