Amor Vincit Omnia
October 19, 2011 7:35 PM Subscribe
A couple married for 72 years dies holding hands, one hour apart. The inseparable couple was engaged and married within 12 hours in 1939, on the day Norma Yeager graduated from high school, May 26, 1939.
They won.
posted by orange swan at 7:45 PM on October 19, 2011 [44 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 7:45 PM on October 19, 2011 [44 favorites]
Just a little piece of sand I am fine.
posted by mrgroweler at 7:46 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by mrgroweler at 7:46 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
That is beautiful. I read it to my husband and he said, "well, of course."
Excuse me...there's a dust storm here in my living room.
posted by blurker at 7:46 PM on October 19, 2011
Excuse me...there's a dust storm here in my living room.
posted by blurker at 7:46 PM on October 19, 2011
..
posted by gusandrews at 7:50 PM on October 19, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by gusandrews at 7:50 PM on October 19, 2011 [7 favorites]
AMAZING. My heart exploded. Are you happy now? My heart has exploded with joy and sorrow and joy and it's exploded now.
posted by sweetkid at 7:50 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by sweetkid at 7:50 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
That's how I want to go.
posted by arcticwoman at 7:51 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by arcticwoman at 7:51 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
Gordon Yeager, 94, and his wife Norma, 90, left their small town of State Center, Iowa, on Wednesday to go into town, but never made it. A car accident sent the couple to the emergency room and intensive care unit with broken bones and other injuries.
Bit of an interesting twist - it wasn't exactly death by heartache. Not to cloud up the rainbows, but is there any information on the circumstances of the accident?
posted by crayz at 7:51 PM on October 19, 2011
Bit of an interesting twist - it wasn't exactly death by heartache. Not to cloud up the rainbows, but is there any information on the circumstances of the accident?
posted by crayz at 7:51 PM on October 19, 2011
Never mind:
At the intersection of Highway 30 and Jessup Avenue, just west of Marshalltown, Gordon pulled "away from the stop sign and failed to yield to a westbound vehicle," according to Sgt. Joel Ehler of the Iowa State Patrol.posted by crayz at 7:53 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
The driver of the other car, Charles Clapsaddle, 64, of Marshalltown, was unable to stop to avoid a collision, Ehler said.
Yes, if you RTFA they were involved in a horrific accident & died in the ICU. Not the way you'd be wanting to go, I am sure.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:55 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:55 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
What a sad, yet wonderful, story. It's amazing how fast the years pass. Me and Mrs. MikeMc will have been married 19 years on the 31st and it really seems like its only been a few years. But alas, our little boy will be 20 in a couple of weeks (you do the math) and the baby will be 10. The wife's grandparents were married over 65 years when her grandmother passed and their marriage has always inspired us.
posted by MikeMc at 7:58 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by MikeMc at 7:58 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's sad either way but the impact of the story changes a bit when you find the husband was responsible for their deaths. Another local paper indicates the husband was facing loss of his license and also adds that the other party seem to be okay.
posted by ftm at 8:05 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by ftm at 8:05 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
My mistake - a comment in the above link says the woman in the other car is in critical care but stable.
posted by ftm at 8:07 PM on October 19, 2011
posted by ftm at 8:07 PM on October 19, 2011
in critical care but stable with a broken neck, apparently.
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:10 PM on October 19, 2011
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:10 PM on October 19, 2011
SNIFF.
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 8:12 PM on October 19, 2011
posted by The demon that lives in the air at 8:12 PM on October 19, 2011
I fully realize I'm missing the point, but I don't think I want to spend the last hour of my life in the ICU holding my dead partners' hand.
Sniff.
..
posted by Space Kitty at 8:24 PM on October 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
Sniff.
..
posted by Space Kitty at 8:24 PM on October 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
This really made me emotional. It made me think of my wife and how important it is that she never, ever be hit by a car being driven by a 90-year-old man.
posted by lucius at 8:24 PM on October 19, 2011 [34 favorites]
posted by lucius at 8:24 PM on October 19, 2011 [34 favorites]
More than once, for anniversaries and what not, I have written on a card, "my wish is for one of you to die in the other's arms, about 50 or 60 years from now."
It sounds rather macabre, but how else would one want to go?
posted by Danf at 8:25 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
It sounds rather macabre, but how else would one want to go?
posted by Danf at 8:25 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
i was in the thrift store next to my office the other day and overheard two elderly ladies talking. One, the customer, was saying that she needed to finish bringing her deceased husbands shirts in, but she was having trouble letting them go. The other one, who worked at the store, asked how long they had been married. And the first one responded, "Oh, only forty-nine years—it was the second marriage for us both."
I just boggled quietly in my corner. Time is long, and time is short. Glad this couple had a good time together, and hope the other party in the accident comes through okay.
posted by peachfuzz at 8:29 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
I just boggled quietly in my corner. Time is long, and time is short. Glad this couple had a good time together, and hope the other party in the accident comes through okay.
posted by peachfuzz at 8:29 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
I want to know more about the logistics of the casket with the hand-holding. Where's the ColdChef signal?
posted by sonika at 8:30 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by sonika at 8:30 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
It sounds rather macabre, but how else would one want to go?
I'll be happy to settle for popping a wheelie on a superbike with a trained collie on my shoulders barking "Ode To Joy" as we jump through hoops of fire.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 8:30 PM on October 19, 2011 [24 favorites]
I'll be happy to settle for popping a wheelie on a superbike with a trained collie on my shoulders barking "Ode To Joy" as we jump through hoops of fire.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 8:30 PM on October 19, 2011 [24 favorites]
Yes, if you RTFA they were involved in a horrific accident & died in the ICU. Not the way you'd be wanting to go, I am sure.
You know what? I don't want to be in a car accident or anything (and god forbid if I ever took anyone out with me), but I can think of a lot of worse ways to die. They spent, what?, a week in the hospital? They were together and able to communicate with family and each other. I'm not knockin' it. I've seen people die from horrible illnesses and if I've gotta choose there's no contest.
This really is a wonderful story. The bit about his heart monitor still going after he stopped breathing really got to me. Thanks for posting.
posted by dchrssyr at 8:31 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
You know what? I don't want to be in a car accident or anything (and god forbid if I ever took anyone out with me), but I can think of a lot of worse ways to die. They spent, what?, a week in the hospital? They were together and able to communicate with family and each other. I'm not knockin' it. I've seen people die from horrible illnesses and if I've gotta choose there's no contest.
This really is a wonderful story. The bit about his heart monitor still going after he stopped breathing really got to me. Thanks for posting.
posted by dchrssyr at 8:31 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
Old man about to lose his license pulls onto a highway right in front of some poor guy who then unavoidably slams into them, sending everyone to the hospital. Old man and his wife die in the ICU, some poor guy is left with a wife suffering from a broken neck facing a long and difficult recovery, plus a lifelong memory of a horrific accident. This is a feel good story? Really?
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 8:32 PM on October 19, 2011 [53 favorites]
posted by Combustible Edison Lighthouse at 8:32 PM on October 19, 2011 [53 favorites]
Combustible Edison Lighthouse - Yep. Until some curmudgeons on the internet had to ruin it for everybody with their reality and stuff.
posted by dchrssyr at 8:38 PM on October 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by dchrssyr at 8:38 PM on October 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'd have to go with Combustible Edison Lighthouse here. I don't really see the AWWWWWW in a story that also came with a heavy price in pain and suffering for other people.
posted by micketymoc at 8:39 PM on October 19, 2011
posted by micketymoc at 8:39 PM on October 19, 2011
They spent, what?, a week in the hospital? They were together and able to communicate with family and each other. I'm not knockin' it. I've seen people die from horrible illnesses and if I've gotta choose there's no contest.
As I read it, they left home around 8am and the husband died at 3:38pm the same day, the wife an hour later. "They were not really responsive" their son said, so it sounds like their last conscious moments may have been when they pulled out onto the highway in front of the other car.
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:39 PM on October 19, 2011
As I read it, they left home around 8am and the husband died at 3:38pm the same day, the wife an hour later. "They were not really responsive" their son said, so it sounds like their last conscious moments may have been when they pulled out onto the highway in front of the other car.
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:39 PM on October 19, 2011
While it is heartwarming how these two passed, let us not forget the couple in the other car. They are luckily both alive, but somehow I don't think this piece would exist if one of them happened to have died as a result.
posted by erstwhile at 8:40 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by erstwhile at 8:40 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
"This is a feel good story? Really?"
Let's not get bogged down in the details. I prefer the Hollywood version where they're driving to a surprise party the grandkids have arranged to celebrate their anniversary and they're hit by a drunk driver.
posted by MikeMc at 8:41 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
Let's not get bogged down in the details. I prefer the Hollywood version where they're driving to a surprise party the grandkids have arranged to celebrate their anniversary and they're hit by a drunk driver.
posted by MikeMc at 8:41 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
As I read it, they left home around 8am and the husband died at 3:38pm the same day, the wife an hour later. "They were not really responsive" their son said, so it sounds like their last conscious moments may have been when they pulled out onto the highway in front of the other car.
Yeah, I guess I saw that they had the accident on a Wednesday and I assumed it was last Wednesday. Opps.
But this, from the link: "She was saying her chest hurt and what's wrong with Dad? Even laying there like that, she was worried about Dad," said the couple's son, Dennis Yeager, 52. "And his back was hurting and he was asking about Mom." indicates that they were responsive.
But really, it doesn't matter to me. I'd still rather go this way.
posted by dchrssyr at 8:48 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I guess I saw that they had the accident on a Wednesday and I assumed it was last Wednesday. Opps.
But this, from the link: "She was saying her chest hurt and what's wrong with Dad? Even laying there like that, she was worried about Dad," said the couple's son, Dennis Yeager, 52. "And his back was hurting and he was asking about Mom." indicates that they were responsive.
But really, it doesn't matter to me. I'd still rather go this way.
posted by dchrssyr at 8:48 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
In comparison to a long & painful disease, sure, but it's not like they're the only possibilities. Peacefully in sleep always sounded good to me.
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:52 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:52 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
It sounds rather macabre, but how else would one want to go?
In the midst of a drug fueled orgy on a spaceship orbiting Saturn, of course.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:54 PM on October 19, 2011 [16 favorites]
In the midst of a drug fueled orgy on a spaceship orbiting Saturn, of course.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:54 PM on October 19, 2011 [16 favorites]
I had a grandfather-in-law who, a year after his wife of almost 69 years passed away, spent several days in a place he loved (Atlantic City) with his only son and his only grandchild, gambling and having fun and laughing. He died less than two days later, right after returning home, quietly in his bed. For me, that sounds about right. So now I have a goal, I suppose.
one year would give me time to mourn, then to set all financial and other affairs in order
posted by davejay at 8:55 PM on October 19, 2011 [5 favorites]
one year would give me time to mourn, then to set all financial and other affairs in order
posted by davejay at 8:55 PM on October 19, 2011 [5 favorites]
Profoundly moving and profoundly sad, in equal measure.
posted by avoision at 8:56 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by avoision at 8:56 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
oh and for years we'd been trying to get him to stop driving, without success, and we all thought that was going to be how he went (as it was for this couple.) So I think he won.
posted by davejay at 8:56 PM on October 19, 2011
posted by davejay at 8:56 PM on October 19, 2011
There was some dust in the room when I read the article. Then I started reading the thread, and it seems to have cleared out.
posted by vidur at 8:57 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by vidur at 8:57 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm sure Charles Clapsaddle's wife with the broken neck thinks this story is heartwarming and cute.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 9:04 PM on October 19, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by MaryDellamorte at 9:04 PM on October 19, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by hermitosis at 9:15 PM on October 19, 2011 [5 favorites]
You know what gets me choked up about this article? That they were able to be next to each other in their last hours, even though they were in a hospital setting. And, it seems anyway, they weren't on invasive machinery.
Regardless of the other stuff, that is something to be happy about. I applaud their family and caregivers for recognizing when it was time to let go.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:17 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
Regardless of the other stuff, that is something to be happy about. I applaud their family and caregivers for recognizing when it was time to let go.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:17 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
Without the car accident, this was my grandparents.
Married in 1939 in a mad rush before my grandmother was deported from the UK for having the wrong passport, they then spent 65 years together as close as any two people I've known. They went together like a hand in a glove, from war to peace to moving far from home, raising a family and eventually into retirement.
Then my grandmother developed some kidney issues, the kind that progressed very quickly and inside two weeks she was hospitalized and not expected to come out. My grandfather was just lost and a couple of days later took a fall down some stairs and ended up in hospital himself. It was a broken hip, not something you would think of as life-threatening, but soon his health was just falling apart and he was sharing a room with his wife. Three days later they were both gone, side by side to the end and less than 6 hours between them.
Nothing rational about it but they were a matched set and just could not go on apart. What a life they had, what odds they beat.
posted by N-stoff at 9:36 PM on October 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
Married in 1939 in a mad rush before my grandmother was deported from the UK for having the wrong passport, they then spent 65 years together as close as any two people I've known. They went together like a hand in a glove, from war to peace to moving far from home, raising a family and eventually into retirement.
Then my grandmother developed some kidney issues, the kind that progressed very quickly and inside two weeks she was hospitalized and not expected to come out. My grandfather was just lost and a couple of days later took a fall down some stairs and ended up in hospital himself. It was a broken hip, not something you would think of as life-threatening, but soon his health was just falling apart and he was sharing a room with his wife. Three days later they were both gone, side by side to the end and less than 6 hours between them.
Nothing rational about it but they were a matched set and just could not go on apart. What a life they had, what odds they beat.
posted by N-stoff at 9:36 PM on October 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
Last year an old family friend passed away at (I think it was) 96. He had made his usual morning pilgrimage, driving to the local Macdonald's for his morning coffee. They found him there in the parking lot, slumped over the wheel.
The general consensus was positive - he had been spry and mobile right to the end. But I can't help but wonder what we would now be saying if his heart had shut down just five minutes earlier ... say when he was passing a bunch of little kids walking along on their way to school.
I guess I'm not so comfortable hearing about 90+ people getting behind the wheel ...
posted by woodblock100 at 9:37 PM on October 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
The general consensus was positive - he had been spry and mobile right to the end. But I can't help but wonder what we would now be saying if his heart had shut down just five minutes earlier ... say when he was passing a bunch of little kids walking along on their way to school.
I guess I'm not so comfortable hearing about 90+ people getting behind the wheel ...
posted by woodblock100 at 9:37 PM on October 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
If my partner and I were about to die, I am sure she would summon the effort to tell me I was doing it all wrong.
posted by greenhornet at 10:25 PM on October 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by greenhornet at 10:25 PM on October 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
It sounds rather macabre, but how else would one want to go?
Is being chased over a cliff by a laughing horde of topless women still an option?
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:40 PM on October 19, 2011 [8 favorites]
Is being chased over a cliff by a laughing horde of topless women still an option?
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:40 PM on October 19, 2011 [8 favorites]
peachfuzz: the first one responded, "Oh, only forty-nine years—it was the second marriage for us both."
An old lady in my choir asked how long spouse and I had been married. Eight years, I said, feeling rather pleased that we'd made it that far. "Ooohhh!" she exclaimed, "I thought you acted like newlyweds!"
"Er...oh yeah? Hmm. How long were you married for?"
"I've been so privileged. Twenty-four wonderful years to [recently deceased husband], and before that, thirty-six years to my first husband."
Yeah. I guess by comparison, eight years is just getting our feet wet.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:00 PM on October 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
An old lady in my choir asked how long spouse and I had been married. Eight years, I said, feeling rather pleased that we'd made it that far. "Ooohhh!" she exclaimed, "I thought you acted like newlyweds!"
"Er...oh yeah? Hmm. How long were you married for?"
"I've been so privileged. Twenty-four wonderful years to [recently deceased husband], and before that, thirty-six years to my first husband."
Yeah. I guess by comparison, eight years is just getting our feet wet.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:00 PM on October 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'd love to be all weepy and emotional with you weak mortals but it turns out ... after watching ABC.News's lovely ad stream they decided to completely flake out on the video I went there to watch.
posted by LoudMusic at 11:02 PM on October 19, 2011
posted by LoudMusic at 11:02 PM on October 19, 2011
Brandon Blatcher: In the midst of a drug fueled orgy on a spaceship orbiting Saturn, of course.
Quoted for FUCK YES
posted by troll at 11:10 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
Quoted for FUCK YES
posted by troll at 11:10 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
This would be like the first 10 minutes of Up, if the Pixar people were total sadists.
(What does it say about me that that was the first thing I thought?)
(This reminds me that I need to get a really nice card for my great [great-great, I think, actually] aunt and uncle who celebrate their 65th later this month)
posted by dirigibleman at 11:15 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
(What does it say about me that that was the first thing I thought?)
(This reminds me that I need to get a really nice card for my great [great-great, I think, actually] aunt and uncle who celebrate their 65th later this month)
posted by dirigibleman at 11:15 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
My great-grandparents made it to 70 years of marriage. They married young, and were in their early 90s when they celebrated their 70th. The local paper covered it, of course, but they really didn't want any fuss. A while later she passed away. He lasted only three months after that.
posted by Harald74 at 11:19 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Harald74 at 11:19 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
My parents celebrated their 50th anniversary last week. I stand in awe of that achievement.
Hope Mrs. Clapsaddle makes a complete and speedy recovery.
posted by arcticseal at 11:29 PM on October 19, 2011
Hope Mrs. Clapsaddle makes a complete and speedy recovery.
posted by arcticseal at 11:29 PM on October 19, 2011
So do I, but:
She suffered internal bleeding and a broken neck. She is currently stable but remains in the critical care unit. There will be a long road ahead for her recovery.posted by pracowity at 11:46 PM on October 19, 2011
No, I would never in a million years wish to die next to my husband, a la The Notebook, because we negligently caused an accident that resulted in another couple's lives being shattered due to severe injury and trauma. The woman in the other car could have just as easily been killed. I just can't find it in me to get all warm and fuzzy, sorry.
posted by keep it under cover at 1:37 AM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by keep it under cover at 1:37 AM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is a tough crowd tonight.
posted by CCBC at 1:58 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by CCBC at 1:58 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
your wife probably won't want to hang out with you anymore
um, you know that one of the big things in staying together for that long is forgiving your partner when they fuck up, right?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 2:24 AM on October 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
um, you know that one of the big things in staying together for that long is forgiving your partner when they fuck up, right?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 2:24 AM on October 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
Is there a cultural reference I'm missing with orange swan's "they won" comment?
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:55 AM on October 20, 2011
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:55 AM on October 20, 2011
Won at the game of life, I think she meant. Which they essentially did, even if the end was a stupid car crash.
posted by pracowity at 4:24 AM on October 20, 2011
posted by pracowity at 4:24 AM on October 20, 2011
Sure he's holding her hand after a grisly accident, but where's the rest of her?
posted by Renoroc at 4:32 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Renoroc at 4:32 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Damn, people, it was a car ACCIDENT.
posted by that's how you get ants at 4:44 AM on October 20, 2011
posted by that's how you get ants at 4:44 AM on October 20, 2011
No! This is Metafilter! Someone must be blamed!
How many people here stayed with their partner after their partner was responsible for their death
I suspect that after my death I won't have any say in whether I stay with my partner or not. Or anything else for that matter.
posted by Grangousier at 4:45 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
How many people here stayed with their partner after their partner was responsible for their death
I suspect that after my death I won't have any say in whether I stay with my partner or not. Or anything else for that matter.
posted by Grangousier at 4:45 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Damn, people, it was a car ACCIDENT.
An accident in my books is more like taking a corner slightly too fast, or having a spider jump out at your face while you're on the freeway.
It's not the epic fail of pulling out onto a highway without realising that there's a car bearing down on you at something like 60-70MPH, killing both yourself & your partner, and breaking the neck of a stranger, while you're in the process of having your licence revoked because you're the kind of driver who would do all of the above.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:51 AM on October 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
An accident in my books is more like taking a corner slightly too fast, or having a spider jump out at your face while you're on the freeway.
It's not the epic fail of pulling out onto a highway without realising that there's a car bearing down on you at something like 60-70MPH, killing both yourself & your partner, and breaking the neck of a stranger, while you're in the process of having your licence revoked because you're the kind of driver who would do all of the above.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:51 AM on October 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
having a spider jump out at your face while you're on the freeway.
... All right, well, I guess I'm off to go look up bus timetables.
posted by penduluum at 4:56 AM on October 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
... All right, well, I guess I'm off to go look up bus timetables.
posted by penduluum at 4:56 AM on October 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
Arf! Arf! Arf! Arf!
Arf! Arf! Arf! Arf!
Arf! Arf! Arf! Arf! Aaaarf! Arf! Arf!
posted by Naberius at 5:15 AM on October 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
Arf! Arf! Arf! Arf!
Arf! Arf! Arf! Arf! Aaaarf! Arf! Arf!
posted by Naberius at 5:15 AM on October 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
Wow...
A lot of Metafilter is just assholes, apparently. Like, seriously, this is how you people live your lives? Just looking to shit on something beautiful?
No wonder most of us in this world never know love like this; we are far too busy being self righteous presumptuous indifferent dicks, tsk-tsking our way to a lonely and solitary death. Well guess what? It seems that we deserve everything that's coming to us.
I want to deactivate my MeFi account soooo badly after reading this thread. Fuck off.
posted by broadway bill at 5:18 AM on October 20, 2011
A lot of Metafilter is just assholes, apparently. Like, seriously, this is how you people live your lives? Just looking to shit on something beautiful?
No wonder most of us in this world never know love like this; we are far too busy being self righteous presumptuous indifferent dicks, tsk-tsking our way to a lonely and solitary death. Well guess what? It seems that we deserve everything that's coming to us.
I want to deactivate my MeFi account soooo badly after reading this thread. Fuck off.
posted by broadway bill at 5:18 AM on October 20, 2011
It's amazing how fast the years pass.
There was an interesting study done on this… unfortunately I don't have the link handy, but it basically came down to this: the reason the years feel like they are going faster is because every additional year you add to your life makes the previous year that much smaller of a percentage of your total life.
Ergo, a year feels like an eternity for a one year-old, because that's 100% of their life. A year feels pretty long to a ten year-old because it's a tenth of their life. But a 50 year-old? A year is just 2% of their life. That's nuthin'.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:22 AM on October 20, 2011
There was an interesting study done on this… unfortunately I don't have the link handy, but it basically came down to this: the reason the years feel like they are going faster is because every additional year you add to your life makes the previous year that much smaller of a percentage of your total life.
Ergo, a year feels like an eternity for a one year-old, because that's 100% of their life. A year feels pretty long to a ten year-old because it's a tenth of their life. But a 50 year-old? A year is just 2% of their life. That's nuthin'.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:22 AM on October 20, 2011
Whoa! This is absolutely amazing! We seem to have covered the full spectrum here, from moist eyes to pitchforks, tar and feathers!
I'm not sure this says so much about MeFites as it does about human beings and their thought processes. Nothing in life is simple or easy, and everything comes at a price. How we parse the events around us reflects, yes, our good or bad natures, but also the very world in which we live. Let me say it again. Nothing is simple or easy.
I really, really need to go off in the woods now to think. See you later.
posted by kinnakeet at 5:24 AM on October 20, 2011 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure this says so much about MeFites as it does about human beings and their thought processes. Nothing in life is simple or easy, and everything comes at a price. How we parse the events around us reflects, yes, our good or bad natures, but also the very world in which we live. Let me say it again. Nothing is simple or easy.
I really, really need to go off in the woods now to think. See you later.
posted by kinnakeet at 5:24 AM on October 20, 2011 [5 favorites]
I'm looking, but I still don't see how this is Obama's fault.
posted by blue_beetle at 5:40 AM on October 20, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 5:40 AM on October 20, 2011 [7 favorites]
A lot of Metafilter is just assholes, apparently. Like, seriously, this is how you people live your lives? Just looking to shit on something beautiful?
It's not 'beautiful', that's the thing. It's stupid & pointless & guaranteed that in the ICU it was ugly. The only 'beautiful' thing here is that they died an hour apart. Guess what? That's the kind of thing that happens when you have a car accident on a highway. Try to spin that into an inspiring story, and you might as well rhapsodise about the deep & beautiful love that people have for tobacco.
No wonder most of us in this world never know love like this; we are far too busy being self righteous presumptuous indifferent dicks, tsk-tsking our way to a lonely and solitary death. Well guess what? It seems that we deserve everything that's coming to us.
What the hell are you talking about? Who's tsking to a lonely & solitary death? I'm sitting next to my mother in law, who's in town to visit me & my partner & our baby boy. What's solitary about that (other than the fact I'm typing on a computer next to MIL)? Pointing out that a stupid & avoidable accident that harmed innocent parties isn't the equivalent of a unicorn shitting rainbows is apparently anathema to some people, I suppose.
I want to deactivate my MeFi account soooo badly after reading this thread. Fuck off.
A strange hill to die on. At least you won't be taking innocent parties out with you.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:41 AM on October 20, 2011 [5 favorites]
It's not 'beautiful', that's the thing. It's stupid & pointless & guaranteed that in the ICU it was ugly. The only 'beautiful' thing here is that they died an hour apart. Guess what? That's the kind of thing that happens when you have a car accident on a highway. Try to spin that into an inspiring story, and you might as well rhapsodise about the deep & beautiful love that people have for tobacco.
No wonder most of us in this world never know love like this; we are far too busy being self righteous presumptuous indifferent dicks, tsk-tsking our way to a lonely and solitary death. Well guess what? It seems that we deserve everything that's coming to us.
What the hell are you talking about? Who's tsking to a lonely & solitary death? I'm sitting next to my mother in law, who's in town to visit me & my partner & our baby boy. What's solitary about that (other than the fact I'm typing on a computer next to MIL)? Pointing out that a stupid & avoidable accident that harmed innocent parties isn't the equivalent of a unicorn shitting rainbows is apparently anathema to some people, I suppose.
I want to deactivate my MeFi account soooo badly after reading this thread. Fuck off.
A strange hill to die on. At least you won't be taking innocent parties out with you.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:41 AM on October 20, 2011 [5 favorites]
I'm glad to know that when I die, MetaFilter will be there to tell the world that I deserved it and that my family should never forgive me.
I'll agree that this isn't necessarily a "feel good" story and the article takes a lot of liberties with the whole "TWOO WUV" aspect - but there's absolutely no need for this to take the turn from Lifetime Movie of the Year to the lost episode of Breaking Bad wherein she's trying to get him to just give up driving but he won't listen and he's on his way to one last cook and doesn't see the car bearing down on him on the highway because he's just too stubborn and also, let's face it, if he doesn't do it this way - Gus Fring is totally going to come after him for failing to meet his quota.
I may have possibly binged on Breaking Bad. Maybe.
posted by sonika at 5:44 AM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'll agree that this isn't necessarily a "feel good" story and the article takes a lot of liberties with the whole "TWOO WUV" aspect - but there's absolutely no need for this to take the turn from Lifetime Movie of the Year to the lost episode of Breaking Bad wherein she's trying to get him to just give up driving but he won't listen and he's on his way to one last cook and doesn't see the car bearing down on him on the highway because he's just too stubborn and also, let's face it, if he doesn't do it this way - Gus Fring is totally going to come after him for failing to meet his quota.
I may have possibly binged on Breaking Bad. Maybe.
posted by sonika at 5:44 AM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
The only 'beautiful' thing here is that they died an hour apart.
Not entirely:
The inseparable couple was engaged and married within 12 hours in 1939 on the day Norma Yeager graduated from high school.
The dying was bad, but it sounds like the living was good.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:59 AM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
Not entirely:
The inseparable couple was engaged and married within 12 hours in 1939 on the day Norma Yeager graduated from high school.
The dying was bad, but it sounds like the living was good.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:59 AM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't want to tar and feather the guy - lots people make deadly errors in judgment on the highway every single day.
But nor can I find a way to focus narrowly enough on specific aspects of this situation to find any 'beauty' inherent among the death and injury.
posted by ftm at 6:02 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
But nor can I find a way to focus narrowly enough on specific aspects of this situation to find any 'beauty' inherent among the death and injury.
posted by ftm at 6:02 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
The tragedy in this story is that this entire situation could have been easily avoided. If this guy had surrendered his license, Mrs. Clapsaddle wouldn't be in ICU looking at a long recovery, but also, this elderly couple may have died far less violently.
I don't think it's beautiful or outrageous. It's just a damned, totally avoidable shame.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:03 AM on October 20, 2011 [5 favorites]
I don't think it's beautiful or outrageous. It's just a damned, totally avoidable shame.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:03 AM on October 20, 2011 [5 favorites]
It's not 'beautiful', that's the thing. It's stupid & pointless & guaranteed that in the ICU it was ugly. The only 'beautiful' thing here is that they died an hour apart. Guess what? That's the kind of thing that happens when you have a car accident on a highway. Try to spin that into an inspiring story, and you might as well rhapsodise about the deep & beautiful love that people have for tobacco.
No one is disputing that a car accident is an ugly and violent thing. But did you miss the part of the article about how long this couple had been together, how they had been inseparable the entire time, how they had inspired similar proclivities in others, how they considered each other even as they were dying, and how they were sweetly laid to rest together?
Also, to address your tobacco point: I know many many tobacco farmers who can rhapsodize about their love of tobacco in a beautiful way. Beautiful poetry has been written about less, so I don't know what to tell you there.
Actually, you know what? I don't even want to address the rest of this. I'll just say this: pointing out the injuries to the other party is absolutely fine, and makes sense. But when you fail to see how sweetly inspiring the story of the life of this couple is, you've lost me.
posted by broadway bill at 6:03 AM on October 20, 2011
No one is disputing that a car accident is an ugly and violent thing. But did you miss the part of the article about how long this couple had been together, how they had been inseparable the entire time, how they had inspired similar proclivities in others, how they considered each other even as they were dying, and how they were sweetly laid to rest together?
Also, to address your tobacco point: I know many many tobacco farmers who can rhapsodize about their love of tobacco in a beautiful way. Beautiful poetry has been written about less, so I don't know what to tell you there.
Actually, you know what? I don't even want to address the rest of this. I'll just say this: pointing out the injuries to the other party is absolutely fine, and makes sense. But when you fail to see how sweetly inspiring the story of the life of this couple is, you've lost me.
posted by broadway bill at 6:03 AM on October 20, 2011
This story pisses me off to no end - yes it's awesome that they died together. Now for the other of the story. Anyone mention that the 90 year old was driving and caused the wreck? Anyone mention that the other's driver's wife neck is broken, severe internal bleeding, and has a long, painful road of recovery ahead? Anyone mention that the 90 year old was under investigation to have his license stripped because of previous accidents?
Feel good stories are awesome, this isn't one. He killed his wife, and himself, injuries other parties. Rip me a new one if you want, but honestly - he should have never been on the road. I don't feel sorry for them.
posted by lpcxa0 at 6:16 AM on October 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
Feel good stories are awesome, this isn't one. He killed his wife, and himself, injuries other parties. Rip me a new one if you want, but honestly - he should have never been on the road. I don't feel sorry for them.
posted by lpcxa0 at 6:16 AM on October 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
Feel good stories are awesome, this isn't one. He killed his wife, and himself, injuries other parties. Rip me a new one if you want, but honestly - he should have never been on the road. I don't feel sorry for them.
All of this... well, except for the last sentence.
This was avoidable. I guess I just don't understand how anyone could cheer at a story of loss and tragedy for four people, just because one couple was married a long time and died together.
They could have enjoyed each-other's company longer, without the severe injury to another person even.
posted by six-or-six-thirty at 6:21 AM on October 20, 2011
All of this... well, except for the last sentence.
This was avoidable. I guess I just don't understand how anyone could cheer at a story of loss and tragedy for four people, just because one couple was married a long time and died together.
They could have enjoyed each-other's company longer, without the severe injury to another person even.
posted by six-or-six-thirty at 6:21 AM on October 20, 2011
To me, it's odd that people think spouses dying within a short time of each is romantic, as if they can't go on without each other. It's sounds incredibly needy and self centered i.e. "Oh I want a spouse that literally can't live without me". How depressing.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:21 AM on October 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:21 AM on October 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
It sounds rather macabre, but how else would one want to go?
My boss' aunt died at her 90th birthday party. Everyone seated around the dinner table in a nice restaurant, good meal, they raise their glasses, toast L'Chaim, boom. She falls dead on the table.
Bit of a shock for the remaining guests, but -- yeah. Long and full life, surrounded by friends and family, no illness or anything -- boom. Done.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:26 AM on October 20, 2011 [10 favorites]
My boss' aunt died at her 90th birthday party. Everyone seated around the dinner table in a nice restaurant, good meal, they raise their glasses, toast L'Chaim, boom. She falls dead on the table.
Bit of a shock for the remaining guests, but -- yeah. Long and full life, surrounded by friends and family, no illness or anything -- boom. Done.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:26 AM on October 20, 2011 [10 favorites]
.. what a sweet love story
posted by pointystick at 6:33 AM on October 20, 2011
posted by pointystick at 6:33 AM on October 20, 2011
All accidents are avoidable, lpcxaO. Every single one. Do you feel bad for anyone who dies an unnatural death, or are they all stupid assholes who should have known better?
Everyone makes mistakes behind the wheel and any one of them could lead to a fatality. Ever look down to check the radio, take a phone call, fail to see a pedestrian crossing an intersection, zone out looking at the taillights in front of you, continue to drive when conditions were unsafe, etc? How can you be sure that this accident directly resulted from his age? Plenty of able bodied people make the same stupid mistake he did. Tens of thousands die on the roads every year.
And why, do you suppose, he wanted to continue to drive? Are you really so sure this was a case of "I like driving, to hell with the consequences!"? I suspect it was more like a choice between the small perceived risk of driving and being entirely cut off from the rest of society/moving into a retirement home.
Your position just seems kinda harsh. Is it the sort of thing you want us to say about you when a tire on your car blows out and sends you off the road into a tree? "Don't feel sorry for him! He should've checked his tire pressure more religiously!"
posted by pjaust at 6:40 AM on October 20, 2011 [7 favorites]
Everyone makes mistakes behind the wheel and any one of them could lead to a fatality. Ever look down to check the radio, take a phone call, fail to see a pedestrian crossing an intersection, zone out looking at the taillights in front of you, continue to drive when conditions were unsafe, etc? How can you be sure that this accident directly resulted from his age? Plenty of able bodied people make the same stupid mistake he did. Tens of thousands die on the roads every year.
And why, do you suppose, he wanted to continue to drive? Are you really so sure this was a case of "I like driving, to hell with the consequences!"? I suspect it was more like a choice between the small perceived risk of driving and being entirely cut off from the rest of society/moving into a retirement home.
Your position just seems kinda harsh. Is it the sort of thing you want us to say about you when a tire on your car blows out and sends you off the road into a tree? "Don't feel sorry for him! He should've checked his tire pressure more religiously!"
posted by pjaust at 6:40 AM on October 20, 2011 [7 favorites]
Think there might be an eeeeensy bit of a difference between not checking the tire pressure and refusing to surrender your license.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:06 AM on October 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:06 AM on October 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
American roadways are a goddam meat grinder, pretty much however you look at it. That is a shame. Having driven a good bit in Florida, with its large retiree population, I'd be totally okay with a law that required annual road tests past the age of 80.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:11 AM on October 20, 2011
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:11 AM on October 20, 2011
It is extremely difficult to get an elderly person's license taken away, so if his was in the process of being revoked then this was not the first instance of him driving dangerously. This could have been my grandparents, but my grandmother was the dementia-addled person still inexplicably licensed to drive.
This was a beautiful love story, yes, but turned into a tragic shame because of one person's recklessness.
posted by apricot at 7:14 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
This was a beautiful love story, yes, but turned into a tragic shame because of one person's recklessness.
posted by apricot at 7:14 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Driver education in this country is already a joke, but let's at least have re-testing.
posted by Eideteker at 8:21 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Eideteker at 8:21 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
A lot of Metafilter is just assholes, apparently ... Fuck off.
There are way better ways to express frustration with the site or your fellow users than this. Please cut it out.
posted by cortex at 9:07 AM on October 20, 2011
There are way better ways to express frustration with the site or your fellow users than this. Please cut it out.
posted by cortex at 9:07 AM on October 20, 2011
When I first heard about this yesterday, sans the info about the wreck, I already didn't think it was all that beautiful. When I'm lying there dying, it'll be nice to be holding my husband's hand, but it would make me sad and depressed if I knew he was also dying and wouldn't go on to enjoy more life after I'm gone. I'm OK with facing my own death, mostly because I know my loved ones will continue living, loving, and having adventures. I don't want my loved ones to die with me.
Now that I know how it is they came to be in the hospital dying at the same time, the whole thing is just one big depressing tale of woe. Their life together was beautiful. Their death together, not so much.
posted by Orb at 9:48 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Now that I know how it is they came to be in the hospital dying at the same time, the whole thing is just one big depressing tale of woe. Their life together was beautiful. Their death together, not so much.
posted by Orb at 9:48 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Damn.. I was waiting for the page to load, meanwhile telling my wife the abbreviated version. She mentioned that her grandparents died about an hour apart when they were in their nineties.
But then the page finally loaded and I read the details...
My wife said this story does not count as cute, and I tend to agree. When an airplane crashes, a hell of a lot more people die together, some even get to hold hands. But no one writes cutsey stories about it.
posted by c13 at 11:06 AM on October 20, 2011
But then the page finally loaded and I read the details...
My wife said this story does not count as cute, and I tend to agree. When an airplane crashes, a hell of a lot more people die together, some even get to hold hands. But no one writes cutsey stories about it.
posted by c13 at 11:06 AM on October 20, 2011
when you fail to see how sweetly inspiring the story of the life of this couple is, you've lost me.
The long life together is indeed a nice story. I probably just glossed over that part because my own grandparents spent a similar amount of time together, but with added fun of getting married the day Hitler started advancing on Moscow, evading both Nazis & Soviets, having kids in refugee camps & so on, eventually living out their years in a cute hilltop farm surrounded by poultry & fruit trees. You just need to marry early & live into your 90s.
The other grandparents would have had a similarly long life together, if tobacco hadn't gotten in the way. That's less newsworthy.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:42 PM on October 20, 2011
The long life together is indeed a nice story. I probably just glossed over that part because my own grandparents spent a similar amount of time together, but with added fun of getting married the day Hitler started advancing on Moscow, evading both Nazis & Soviets, having kids in refugee camps & so on, eventually living out their years in a cute hilltop farm surrounded by poultry & fruit trees. You just need to marry early & live into your 90s.
The other grandparents would have had a similarly long life together, if tobacco hadn't gotten in the way. That's less newsworthy.
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:42 PM on October 20, 2011
I guess I just don't understand how anyone could cheer at a story of loss and tragedy for four people
Who's cheering? It's possible that people are overreacting a little against the glurge-y nature of the context-free version of the story, but I didn't see anyone saying, "And I'm glad he's dead!" or anything.
posted by naoko at 6:19 PM on October 20, 2011
Who's cheering? It's possible that people are overreacting a little against the glurge-y nature of the context-free version of the story, but I didn't see anyone saying, "And I'm glad he's dead!" or anything.
posted by naoko at 6:19 PM on October 20, 2011
I didn't see anyone saying, "And I'm glad he's dead!" or anything.
Uh, I saw that. Repeatedly. Just two examples from upthread:
No, I would never in a million years wish to die next to my husband, a la The Notebook, because we negligently caused an accident that resulted in another couple's lives being shattered due to severe injury and trauma. The woman in the other car could have just as easily been killed. I just can't find it in me to get all warm and fuzzy, sorry.
posted by keep it under cover at 4:37 AM on October 20 [+] [!]
It's not the epic fail of pulling out onto a highway without realising that there's a car bearing down on you at something like 60-70MPH, killing both yourself & your partner, and breaking the neck of a stranger, while you're in the process of having your licence revoked because you're the kind of driver who would do all of the above.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:51 AM on October 20 [+] [!]
There are more. IMHO, it's pretty gross how fast and how far this went from "tragic car accident" to "he deserved it." Not MetaFilter's finest hour, for sure.
posted by sonika at 7:13 PM on October 20, 2011
Uh, I saw that. Repeatedly. Just two examples from upthread:
No, I would never in a million years wish to die next to my husband, a la The Notebook, because we negligently caused an accident that resulted in another couple's lives being shattered due to severe injury and trauma. The woman in the other car could have just as easily been killed. I just can't find it in me to get all warm and fuzzy, sorry.
posted by keep it under cover at 4:37 AM on October 20 [+] [!]
It's not the epic fail of pulling out onto a highway without realising that there's a car bearing down on you at something like 60-70MPH, killing both yourself & your partner, and breaking the neck of a stranger, while you're in the process of having your licence revoked because you're the kind of driver who would do all of the above.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:51 AM on October 20 [+] [!]
There are more. IMHO, it's pretty gross how fast and how far this went from "tragic car accident" to "he deserved it." Not MetaFilter's finest hour, for sure.
posted by sonika at 7:13 PM on October 20, 2011
No, sonika, that did not in any way mean "I'm glad he's dead". It was an argument explicitly contrasting an "accident" with an epic fail - an accident in my view is just a piece of bad luck that might happen to anybody.
Not noticing a car speeding towards your intersection when you're waiting at a stop sign doesn't qualify in my books. It's not a mechanical fault & it's not an error in judgement. It's just plain not seeing something that one is required to see in order to not endanger oneself or others. Compounding the failure is the fact that this was apparently a regular route into town for them, so you couldn't even claim that the road or conditions were unfamiliar.
To be more explicit, I think it's a terrible tragedy that he & his wife died. I also believe that it was eminently avoidable. Neither of these mean or imply in any way that I'm glad he's dead.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:58 PM on October 20, 2011
Not noticing a car speeding towards your intersection when you're waiting at a stop sign doesn't qualify in my books. It's not a mechanical fault & it's not an error in judgement. It's just plain not seeing something that one is required to see in order to not endanger oneself or others. Compounding the failure is the fact that this was apparently a regular route into town for them, so you couldn't even claim that the road or conditions were unfamiliar.
To be more explicit, I think it's a terrible tragedy that he & his wife died. I also believe that it was eminently avoidable. Neither of these mean or imply in any way that I'm glad he's dead.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:58 PM on October 20, 2011
or that he deserved it. he probably shouldn't have been on the road, but this doesn't equal deserving that fate.
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:02 PM on October 20, 2011
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:02 PM on October 20, 2011
No, sonika, that did not in any way mean "I'm glad he's dead". It was an argument explicitly contrasting an "accident" with an epic fail - an accident in my view is just a piece of bad luck that might happen to anybody.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I certainly disagree with your definition of "accident" and think that your take on the situation is pretty harsh - but I understand that you weren't saying that being at fault and deserving what happened are the same thing.
posted by sonika at 8:04 PM on October 20, 2011
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I certainly disagree with your definition of "accident" and think that your take on the situation is pretty harsh - but I understand that you weren't saying that being at fault and deserving what happened are the same thing.
posted by sonika at 8:04 PM on October 20, 2011
Yeah I am not seeing anything remotely resembling "I'm glad he's dead" in those two comments at all. I think we can disagree with each others' reactions without exaggerating them.
posted by naoko at 8:19 PM on October 20, 2011
posted by naoko at 8:19 PM on October 20, 2011
"Uh, I saw that. Repeatedly." Huh? Neither of the two quotes you pulled off from the thread say anything close to "I'm glad he's dead".
posted by micketymoc at 8:32 PM on October 20, 2011
posted by micketymoc at 8:32 PM on October 20, 2011
Or anything close to "cheering" over anyone's death, since that was the initial assertion.
posted by naoko at 8:40 PM on October 20, 2011
posted by naoko at 8:40 PM on October 20, 2011
Sonika, please explain to me where in my post I said anything that even remotely resembles, "I'm glad he's dead." My point was that I find absolutely no glory or romance in the way this couple died. The entire event was a senseless tragedy for all involved, and I find it bizarre and distasteful how it has been glossed up for public consumption by ABC news, especially considering that innocent lives were harmed and Mrs. Clapsaddle is still not out of the woods yet.
Seriously... what?!
posted by keep it under cover at 10:57 PM on October 20, 2011
Seriously... what?!
posted by keep it under cover at 10:57 PM on October 20, 2011
I suppose my interpretation of the comments is a casualty of text-based communication. Going back, I can see them more charitably - but they initially read really, really harsh. So, I take back my assertion that they went so far as to be glad that anyone had died, but I still feel that the tone went really, really negative.
So, perhaps not so far as to say "Glad he's dead" but I'm seeing an underlying current of projecting malicious intent onto what was just a (n albeit tragic) accident in this thread.
posted by sonika at 3:31 AM on October 21, 2011
So, perhaps not so far as to say "Glad he's dead" but I'm seeing an underlying current of projecting malicious intent onto what was just a (n albeit tragic) accident in this thread.
posted by sonika at 3:31 AM on October 21, 2011
To be honest, if anybody is cheering on the death it's the "they won" brigade.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:39 AM on October 21, 2011
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:39 AM on October 21, 2011
Who's cheering? It's possible that people are overreacting a little against the glurge-y nature of the context-free version of the story, but I didn't see anyone saying, "And I'm glad he's dead!" or anything.
I meant cheering over the feel-good aspect of the story and ignoring the tragedy of it, not cheering at people's death:
"This was avoidable. I guess I just don't understand how anyone could cheer at a story of loss and tragedy for four people, just because one couple was married a long time and died together."
Sorry, I thought that was fairly clear in the context of my original post, but taken as a clip I can understand how it might be misunderstood.
posted by six-or-six-thirty at 6:14 AM on October 21, 2011
I meant cheering over the feel-good aspect of the story and ignoring the tragedy of it, not cheering at people's death:
"This was avoidable. I guess I just don't understand how anyone could cheer at a story of loss and tragedy for four people, just because one couple was married a long time and died together."
Sorry, I thought that was fairly clear in the context of my original post, but taken as a clip I can understand how it might be misunderstood.
posted by six-or-six-thirty at 6:14 AM on October 21, 2011
Sonika, again I think you've misread. Nobody's projecting any malice onto Mr. Yeager's actions. Nobody's saying Mr. Yeager crashed his car on purpose, which would be the only interpretation that would fit your scenario of "projecting malicious intent".
Those of us who reacted negatively to the scenario, I think, reacted negatively to the glurgey gloss painted by the initial link, which hid the very ugly reality of an avoidable accident that ended up with one woman in critical condition and two people dead. Again, nobody projected malicious intent onto Mr. Yeager's actions. At worst, we're saying he was stubborn, his stubbornness cost him his wife's life and his own, and this all could have been avoided had he gotten a clue.
In lieu of an apology, which I think would have been appropriate giving your gross and uncharitable misreading of others' skepticism over the story, perhaps next time you could remember to be more generous in interpreting other people's intentions when you violently disagree with them.
posted by micketymoc at 6:18 AM on October 21, 2011
Those of us who reacted negatively to the scenario, I think, reacted negatively to the glurgey gloss painted by the initial link, which hid the very ugly reality of an avoidable accident that ended up with one woman in critical condition and two people dead. Again, nobody projected malicious intent onto Mr. Yeager's actions. At worst, we're saying he was stubborn, his stubbornness cost him his wife's life and his own, and this all could have been avoided had he gotten a clue.
In lieu of an apology, which I think would have been appropriate giving your gross and uncharitable misreading of others' skepticism over the story, perhaps next time you could remember to be more generous in interpreting other people's intentions when you violently disagree with them.
posted by micketymoc at 6:18 AM on October 21, 2011
I meant cheering over the feel-good aspect of the story and ignoring the tragedy of it, not cheering at people's death:
Ah. Well that makes a lot of sense then. Sorry. Carry on.
posted by naoko at 6:58 AM on October 21, 2011
Ah. Well that makes a lot of sense then. Sorry. Carry on.
posted by naoko at 6:58 AM on October 21, 2011
In lieu of an apology, which I think would have been appropriate giving your gross and uncharitable misreading of others' skepticism over the story, perhaps next time you could remember to be more generous in interpreting other people's intentions when you violently disagree with them.
I do try to be generous with people, and I already retracted my previous assertion. Seriously, I absolutely do my best to be charitable - and I wasn't even in the "They won" camp. I just was very much rubbed the wrong way by a lot of comments that were saying that this was no "accident." I get their point and understand that being at fault and deserving what happened aren't the same thing. Again, I retracted my initial statement.
As for an apology - I misread some comments, was corrected, and stand here now duly corrected. This comment feels to me like someone scolding a child and I don't see how I've earned that by simply misunderstanding. Especially since I've even admitted to being wrong.
In the future, you might remember that people are less likely to do as you would like them to when you treat them with such gross condescension.
posted by sonika at 7:57 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I do try to be generous with people, and I already retracted my previous assertion. Seriously, I absolutely do my best to be charitable - and I wasn't even in the "They won" camp. I just was very much rubbed the wrong way by a lot of comments that were saying that this was no "accident." I get their point and understand that being at fault and deserving what happened aren't the same thing. Again, I retracted my initial statement.
As for an apology - I misread some comments, was corrected, and stand here now duly corrected. This comment feels to me like someone scolding a child and I don't see how I've earned that by simply misunderstanding. Especially since I've even admitted to being wrong.
In the future, you might remember that people are less likely to do as you would like them to when you treat them with such gross condescension.
posted by sonika at 7:57 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Nobody's saying Mr. Yeager crashed his car on purpose, which would be the only interpretation that would fit your scenario of "projecting malicious intent".
Actually, no. What I meant is that it was being portrayed that he was driving recklessly and stubbornly refusing to give up his license when he knew that he was a danger on the road. That's what I meant by malicious intent. Not "murderous" intent. You might do better to be charitable as well.
posted by sonika at 7:59 AM on October 21, 2011
Actually, no. What I meant is that it was being portrayed that he was driving recklessly and stubbornly refusing to give up his license when he knew that he was a danger on the road. That's what I meant by malicious intent. Not "murderous" intent. You might do better to be charitable as well.
posted by sonika at 7:59 AM on October 21, 2011
We could all stand to be more generous when interpreting other people's intentions.
...including Mr. Yeager's.
posted by rocket88 at 9:26 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
...including Mr. Yeager's.
posted by rocket88 at 9:26 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Well, negligence, by definition, is characterized by thoughtlessness or carelessness, so I'm not sure how you managed to read "malicious intent" into my post. I'm positive Mr. Yeager didn't set out to off himself and his wife or injure other folks, but the fact remains that anyone who gets behind the wheel owes a duty of care to everyone else around them. Failing to exercise that care is negligence. Failure to yield at a stop sign causing a deadly collision is prima facie negligence. Hitting a patch of black ice while driving at a reasonable speed and exercising due caution, that's an accident.
Maybe "negligently" isn't as flattering to Mr. Yeager as "accidentally", but I resent being made to feel like a terrible person for viewing this event as a preventable tragedy rather than a fateful victory (amor vincet omnia). Now excuse me while I go find some more rainbows to shit on.
posted by keep it under cover at 3:43 PM on October 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Maybe "negligently" isn't as flattering to Mr. Yeager as "accidentally", but I resent being made to feel like a terrible person for viewing this event as a preventable tragedy rather than a fateful victory (amor vincet omnia). Now excuse me while I go find some more rainbows to shit on.
posted by keep it under cover at 3:43 PM on October 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
There's a middle ground between "he was reckless" or "negligent" and "love conquers all!" That middle ground being "Accidents happen." And yeah, some people shouldn't be driving and he was one of them, but accidents still happen.
I nearly got run off the road while trying to merge onto the highway today and had an accident actually occurred, it would be just that - an accident. Not some negligence on the part of the citizen in the white minivan who wasn't driving at a reasonable speed. Maybe the guy was distracted or maybe she's just a shitty driver or maybe their dog was in labor, I have no idea. My point here being that there are probably six truly cautious drivers who always go at the speed limit and think safety first. And they're all in this thread.
This is a shitty thing that happened and it might have been preventable. But shitty things happen. To dwell on the "negligent" nature of the driver seems unnecessarily harsh to me. That's just my take on it and fine, so I'm in the minority.
I also always use my turn signals and drive at exactly the speed limit, so hopefully we'll never tangle on the highway.
posted by sonika at 6:21 PM on October 21, 2011
I nearly got run off the road while trying to merge onto the highway today and had an accident actually occurred, it would be just that - an accident. Not some negligence on the part of the citizen in the white minivan who wasn't driving at a reasonable speed. Maybe the guy was distracted or maybe she's just a shitty driver or maybe their dog was in labor, I have no idea. My point here being that there are probably six truly cautious drivers who always go at the speed limit and think safety first. And they're all in this thread.
This is a shitty thing that happened and it might have been preventable. But shitty things happen. To dwell on the "negligent" nature of the driver seems unnecessarily harsh to me. That's just my take on it and fine, so I'm in the minority.
I also always use my turn signals and drive at exactly the speed limit, so hopefully we'll never tangle on the highway.
posted by sonika at 6:21 PM on October 21, 2011
Right, sonika, and I'm sure everyone else, save "six truly cautious drivers," also have actions pending against them to have their licenses revoked. How dare we impugn Mr. Yeager's perfectly ordinary driving safety record.
Sure, accidents happen, but accidents "happen" to some people at a far higher rate. At some point the accident rate crosses the line to pose an unreasonable danger to others, and driving privileges are accordingly revoked. In fact, your anecdote about shitty drivers just proves that point further - if all these morons we encounter on the roads every day have no problem keeping their licenses, Mr. Yeager was either extremely unlucky or the worst of the worst.
And actually, dependent on the particular circumstances of a case, yes, one can be found negligent for driving at an excessive speed. You seem hell bent on defining the words "accident" and "negligence" for me, and insisting that "negligence" is too harsh and therefore I'm a mean person. I don't know what else to say.
posted by keep it under cover at 8:56 PM on October 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Sure, accidents happen, but accidents "happen" to some people at a far higher rate. At some point the accident rate crosses the line to pose an unreasonable danger to others, and driving privileges are accordingly revoked. In fact, your anecdote about shitty drivers just proves that point further - if all these morons we encounter on the roads every day have no problem keeping their licenses, Mr. Yeager was either extremely unlucky or the worst of the worst.
And actually, dependent on the particular circumstances of a case, yes, one can be found negligent for driving at an excessive speed. You seem hell bent on defining the words "accident" and "negligence" for me, and insisting that "negligence" is too harsh and therefore I'm a mean person. I don't know what else to say.
posted by keep it under cover at 8:56 PM on October 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
According to this ratio of speed to stopping distances, an average driver travelling at 60mph will stop within 303 feet (101 yards) - just to put some kind of ballpark metrics around the accident.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:50 PM on October 21, 2011
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:50 PM on October 21, 2011
insisting that "negligence" is too harsh and therefore I'm a mean person. I don't know what else to say.
No, you're saying that I'm saying you're a mean person. I'm not saying that at all. I'm trying to explain that I disagree with a lot of the harsher comments, but I am not making any judgements at all about the commenters being "mean." I have absolutely not said anything about any one commenter in this thread being mean or a bad person - you're projecting that on me all on your own.
To spell it out, since this is now the second time that I'm being accused of calling someone mean, I disagree with you. I do not think you are a bad person.
posted by sonika at 11:48 AM on October 22, 2011
No, you're saying that I'm saying you're a mean person. I'm not saying that at all. I'm trying to explain that I disagree with a lot of the harsher comments, but I am not making any judgements at all about the commenters being "mean." I have absolutely not said anything about any one commenter in this thread being mean or a bad person - you're projecting that on me all on your own.
To spell it out, since this is now the second time that I'm being accused of calling someone mean, I disagree with you. I do not think you are a bad person.
posted by sonika at 11:48 AM on October 22, 2011
Okay, sonika... now I'm projecting judgments onto you? Go back and read your comments in this thread. You're the one who cited my comment as evidence of "it's pretty gross how fast and how far this went from "tragic car accident" to "he deserved it." Not MetaFilter's finest hour, for sure."
Some other MeFites called you out for projecting all kinds of judgment onto my words and UbuRoivas's words, for no discernible reason.
So you retracted that, but continued to insist, "I still feel that the tone went really, really negative. So, perhaps not so far as to say "Glad he's dead" but I'm seeing an underlying current of projecting malicious intent onto what was just a (n albeit tragic) accident in this thread." Also, "To dwell on the "negligent" nature of the driver seems unnecessarily harsh to me."
So you didn't specifically use the word "mean." But according to your words, "pretty gross," and, "Not MetaFilter's finest hour, for sure," would it be fair to say that you felt my contribution was disgraceful? Or am I putting words into your mouth again? But you took it back, so I guess I shouldn't mention it. Still, you said my tone (and others') was "really, really negative," and contained "an underlying current of projecting malicious intent," and, "seems unnecessarily harsh to me"...
...but none of that implies any meanness on my part, you are not making any judgments at all, and I am the one who is unfairly accusing you....
Wow. Okay then.
posted by keep it under cover at 3:45 PM on October 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Some other MeFites called you out for projecting all kinds of judgment onto my words and UbuRoivas's words, for no discernible reason.
So you retracted that, but continued to insist, "I still feel that the tone went really, really negative. So, perhaps not so far as to say "Glad he's dead" but I'm seeing an underlying current of projecting malicious intent onto what was just a (n albeit tragic) accident in this thread." Also, "To dwell on the "negligent" nature of the driver seems unnecessarily harsh to me."
So you didn't specifically use the word "mean." But according to your words, "pretty gross," and, "Not MetaFilter's finest hour, for sure," would it be fair to say that you felt my contribution was disgraceful? Or am I putting words into your mouth again? But you took it back, so I guess I shouldn't mention it. Still, you said my tone (and others') was "really, really negative," and contained "an underlying current of projecting malicious intent," and, "seems unnecessarily harsh to me"...
...but none of that implies any meanness on my part, you are not making any judgments at all, and I am the one who is unfairly accusing you....
Wow. Okay then.
posted by keep it under cover at 3:45 PM on October 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Would it be fair to say that you felt my contribution was disgraceful? Or am I putting words into your mouth again?
What are you trying to accomplish here?
I'm asking that in all honesty. You already quoted me. You do not seem to be asking for clarification on any points that I made, but rather this reads as a request that I rephrase my comments in specific terms. I'm not clear on what the end game is here.
But you took it back, so I guess I shouldn't mention it.
If I admit that I'm wrong, what else is there? I already admitted I'm wrong. I'll admit it again: I mis-read some comments uncharitably and spoke in error. I've since been corrected. I apologize. I was called out and I admit my error.
Where I draw the line is that I did not say that any commenter was a bad person. This is a distinction that's important to me: I disagreed with a lot of what was said. I stated that. I did not, however, turn into a personal referendum on the person who said it. However, it has turned into me being judgmental. Do you see the difference? I took exception to things that were said. You are taking exception to the person who said them.
posted by sonika at 7:27 PM on October 22, 2011
What are you trying to accomplish here?
I'm asking that in all honesty. You already quoted me. You do not seem to be asking for clarification on any points that I made, but rather this reads as a request that I rephrase my comments in specific terms. I'm not clear on what the end game is here.
But you took it back, so I guess I shouldn't mention it.
If I admit that I'm wrong, what else is there? I already admitted I'm wrong. I'll admit it again: I mis-read some comments uncharitably and spoke in error. I've since been corrected. I apologize. I was called out and I admit my error.
Where I draw the line is that I did not say that any commenter was a bad person. This is a distinction that's important to me: I disagreed with a lot of what was said. I stated that. I did not, however, turn into a personal referendum on the person who said it. However, it has turned into me being judgmental. Do you see the difference? I took exception to things that were said. You are taking exception to the person who said them.
posted by sonika at 7:27 PM on October 22, 2011
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