Putting big numbers in perspective
May 6, 2013 11:09 AM Subscribe
Vernon Wells for $24M vs. Ryan Braun for $10M... I'll stick with Braun.
This is cool, but some of the info is either out of date or wrong... For example, Mat Gamel hasn't played first base for the Brewers at all this year (or any other position for that matter).
posted by drezdn at 11:28 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is cool, but some of the info is either out of date or wrong... For example, Mat Gamel hasn't played first base for the Brewers at all this year (or any other position for that matter).
posted by drezdn at 11:28 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Of course the Yankees spend ten times as much as the Astros. In New York it doesn't matter if something is the best as long as it is the most expensive. They spend the money just to show they can. The negotiations are probably like "you want 10 million? What are you crazy? Who do you think we are,the Astros? Take 20"
posted by Ad hominem at 11:29 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by Ad hominem at 11:29 AM on May 6, 2013
Is it mean if for every tool like this, I just start comparing people to the Marlins, so that I can laugh at the Marlins?
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:31 AM on May 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:31 AM on May 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
The Astros are almost in a new category. The next-lowest combined team salary is almost twice as high (Astros around $26 million and Marlins around $50 million). I think I read somewhere that the Yankee's players on the disabled list earn more than the entire Astros team.
posted by exogenous at 11:32 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by exogenous at 11:32 AM on May 6, 2013
Andrew McCutchen is a pretty good deal at $4.7 mil, comparatively speaking. So... when do the Pirates lose him?
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:33 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:33 AM on May 6, 2013
Dodgers are outspending the Giants by about $100 million but we swept them this weekend. Ok!
posted by rtha at 11:34 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by rtha at 11:34 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
The Astros are almost in a new category. The next-lowest combined team salary is almost twice as high (Astros around $26 million and Marlins around $50 million). I think I read somewhere that the Yankee's players on the disabled list earn more than the entire Astros team.
posted by exogenous at 11:32 AM on May 6 [+] [!]
As of April 1st, the Yankees DL was earning more than 16 major league teams.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:35 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by exogenous at 11:32 AM on May 6 [+] [!]
As of April 1st, the Yankees DL was earning more than 16 major league teams.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:35 AM on May 6, 2013
This is based on bad data — they're using straight salary numbers that don't take into account traded players whose former teams are picking up some of the tab. E.g. Vernon Wells is listed at $24.6MM for the Yankees, but the Yankees are "only" paying him $11.5MM of that.
posted by RogerB at 11:36 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by RogerB at 11:36 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Seriously Toronto, where is all that money going this season???
posted by GuyZero at 11:36 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by GuyZero at 11:36 AM on May 6, 2013
The Yanks pay $41M for their 3rd basemen (A-Rod and Youkilis and some other dude).
posted by Mister_A at 11:37 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by Mister_A at 11:37 AM on May 6, 2013
What is this, baseball people are arguing about numbers?
posted by Mister_A at 11:37 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister_A at 11:37 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
It really isn't fair anymore is it. I think the rest of the teams should band together to field a "super team" to play the Yankees.
posted by Ad hominem at 11:38 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by Ad hominem at 11:38 AM on May 6, 2013
What's going on with Yankee catchers, compared to the rest of the team? Are they that hungry just to be at the show? How does that disparity not build resentment in the clubhouse?
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:39 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:39 AM on May 6, 2013
The Astros are almost in a new category. The next-lowest combined team salary is almost twice as high (Astros around $26 million and Marlins around $50 million). I think I read somewhere that the Yankee's players on the disabled list earn more than the entire Astros team.
You might not be able to buy a championship, but you can definitely cheap your way into being terrible.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:39 AM on May 6, 2013 [4 favorites]
You might not be able to buy a championship, but you can definitely cheap your way into being terrible.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:39 AM on May 6, 2013 [4 favorites]
So... when do the Pirates lose him?
He's signed with the Pirates through at least 2017 with a team option for 2018.
posted by drezdn at 11:41 AM on May 6, 2013
He's signed with the Pirates through at least 2017 with a team option for 2018.
posted by drezdn at 11:41 AM on May 6, 2013
Oddly enough it's the "not fair" part that makes me more of a fan of baseball. When the underdog wins, the win is soooo much sweeter. When the Yankees get beat by, say, the Rays, it feels like the 1%ers getting their comeuppance. Unlike in real life, this happens fairly often.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:43 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:43 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you're a young catcher (or any position player really) on the Yanks you don't sweat your present salary. You know you'll either have a breakout year and get a big contract with the Yanks, OR they'll go hire someone for $18M a year and you'll get traded if you're any good, and you'll make good money as a starter.
posted by Mister_A at 11:44 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by Mister_A at 11:44 AM on May 6, 2013
Are the Astros are on pace to match, or beat, the 1962 Mets record of 120 losses this season.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 11:48 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by 1970s Antihero at 11:48 AM on May 6, 2013
And the Yankees just had Jorge Posada retire a short while back, who was almost certainly one of the better-paid catchers in the league. They probably just haven't had a need to sign a mega-contract with one of their new guys or bring in somebody through free agency yet. If their current catchers are journeymen or still on their rookie contracts, it makes sense that they'd be a bit behind in salary for a team that is mostly pretty old.
I love that this is done by an LA paper, probably sort of in response to what the Dodgers have pulled off and where they currently sit in the standings (4th out of 5 teams in the NL West, a half game ahead of the Padres (who have slightly less than 1/3 the Dodgers payroll))
posted by LionIndex at 11:52 AM on May 6, 2013
I love that this is done by an LA paper, probably sort of in response to what the Dodgers have pulled off and where they currently sit in the standings (4th out of 5 teams in the NL West, a half game ahead of the Padres (who have slightly less than 1/3 the Dodgers payroll))
posted by LionIndex at 11:52 AM on May 6, 2013
Alex Rodriguez: $29,000,000
Kyle Seager: $510,400 (don't forget that $400!)
Yes, it's a source of never-ending sadness to me that the Mariners couldn't keep A-Rod.
posted by skyscraper at 11:53 AM on May 6, 2013
Kyle Seager: $510,400 (don't forget that $400!)
Yes, it's a source of never-ending sadness to me that the Mariners couldn't keep A-Rod.
posted by skyscraper at 11:53 AM on May 6, 2013
Hey don't neglect the Phillies: $159M payroll, 3 games under .500
posted by Mister_A at 11:56 AM on May 6, 2013
posted by Mister_A at 11:56 AM on May 6, 2013
It really isn't fair anymore is it. I think the rest of the teams should band together to field a "super team" to play the Yankees.
There is a "super team" that consistently beats the Yankees. They're called the Detroit Tigers.
*wears hat proudly*
posted by HostBryan at 12:07 PM on May 6, 2013 [4 favorites]
There is a "super team" that consistently beats the Yankees. They're called the Detroit Tigers.
*wears hat proudly*
posted by HostBryan at 12:07 PM on May 6, 2013 [4 favorites]
I know Bryce Harper is young, but man, he needs a better agent if he's only being paid an eighth of what Jayson Werth makes.
posted by Cash4Lead at 12:08 PM on May 6, 2013
posted by Cash4Lead at 12:08 PM on May 6, 2013
I know Bryce Harper is young, but man, he needs a better agent if he's only being paid an eighth of what Jayson Werth makes.
That's just how the MLB salary structure works. since Harper won't be eligible for arbitration for another two years.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:11 PM on May 6, 2013
That's just how the MLB salary structure works. since Harper won't be eligible for arbitration for another two years.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:11 PM on May 6, 2013
Cash4Lead: "I know Bryce Harper is young, but man, he needs a better agent if he's only being paid an eighth of what Jayson Werth makes."
Actually, Harper's contract was a record total for a non-pitcher signed out of the draft who had not become a free agent, and a bit of a gamble for the Nationals. A lot of promising young players fail to live up to the hype.
posted by exogenous at 12:12 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Actually, Harper's contract was a record total for a non-pitcher signed out of the draft who had not become a free agent, and a bit of a gamble for the Nationals. A lot of promising young players fail to live up to the hype.
posted by exogenous at 12:12 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
I believe that is because Detroit is the only place that scares New Yorkers.
If you can wear a hat in the thread I can sing the song.
In new York something something dreams are made of
There's nothing you can't do, these lights will inspire you.
posted by Ad hominem at 12:15 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you can wear a hat in the thread I can sing the song.
In new York something something dreams are made of
There's nothing you can't do, these lights will inspire you.
posted by Ad hominem at 12:15 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hey don't neglect the Phillies: $159M payroll, 3 games under .500
Giants: .613 and $136M.
See you tonight!
/knocks wood, hopes Fate has not been tempted, resolves to acquire the appropriate sacrificial items on the way home from work
posted by rtha at 12:16 PM on May 6, 2013
Giants: .613 and $136M.
See you tonight!
/knocks wood, hopes Fate has not been tempted, resolves to acquire the appropriate sacrificial items on the way home from work
posted by rtha at 12:16 PM on May 6, 2013
/knocks wood, hopes Fate has not been tempted, resolves to acquire the appropriate sacrificial items on the way home from work
You're getting the Phils at an opportune time. Halladay just hit the 15-day DL, not that you would have faced him in this series, but it's going to put a lot of pressure on the other starters to pitch better. Given that Kyle Kendrick's been the most dependable starter, this is not a good thing.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:21 PM on May 6, 2013
You're getting the Phils at an opportune time. Halladay just hit the 15-day DL, not that you would have faced him in this series, but it's going to put a lot of pressure on the other starters to pitch better. Given that Kyle Kendrick's been the most dependable starter, this is not a good thing.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:21 PM on May 6, 2013
Also we just lost two straight against the Marlins. So basically, Overwhelming Depression is starting.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:27 PM on May 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:27 PM on May 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
I am, for my sins, a fan of the Astros. From the late 90's to the mid 2000s they were a solid, competitive team who won more than they lost. They were also aging and expensive. Houston's payroll was never up there with the Yankees, but it was large. The local market can sustain a payroll similar to The Rangers or the Angels - the Astros new TV network pays them $80m per year - but no-one outside of the Yanks, Red Sox or Dodgers can afford to buy their wins through free agency. You have to have a core of good players under team control.
The Astros farm system was ruined by a few years of trying to put together 'one more run' during the Bagwell and Biggio years - trading away good prospects to add a piece or losing draft picks after signing free agents. Rebuilding is well underway, but it started with the worst farm system in baseball. It is now one of the best in the league, but a couple of years from providing major league talent. So, if you have a valuable player now, why not trade him away for two players who'll be valuable in 2015? Paying for free agents at this point is a waste of money and draft picks. Take $25m and look at last winter's free agent market. Can you find a combination of players that make the Astros competitive? Might as well lose 120, get another No. 1 pick and add more depth all the way down the farm system.
posted by IanMorr at 12:39 PM on May 6, 2013 [5 favorites]
The Astros farm system was ruined by a few years of trying to put together 'one more run' during the Bagwell and Biggio years - trading away good prospects to add a piece or losing draft picks after signing free agents. Rebuilding is well underway, but it started with the worst farm system in baseball. It is now one of the best in the league, but a couple of years from providing major league talent. So, if you have a valuable player now, why not trade him away for two players who'll be valuable in 2015? Paying for free agents at this point is a waste of money and draft picks. Take $25m and look at last winter's free agent market. Can you find a combination of players that make the Astros competitive? Might as well lose 120, get another No. 1 pick and add more depth all the way down the farm system.
posted by IanMorr at 12:39 PM on May 6, 2013 [5 favorites]
I throw harder than Halladay at this point. And rtha, the Giants are my #2 rooting interest in baseball, so I'm OK with their recent success.
posted by Mister_A at 1:39 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister_A at 1:39 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
I just realized that I'm rooting for Halladay to turn into a latter-day Jamie Moyer and now I'm even sadder.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:41 PM on May 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:41 PM on May 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
I just realized that I'm rooting for Halladay to turn into a latter-day Jamie Moyer and now I'm even sadder.
I'm hoping for more of a Greg Maddux type situation. Roy can be successful again even if he never gets his 92+ MPH fastball back, but it's the lack of movement on the cutter and two-seamer that's been hurting him more than the lack of velocity this year. If he gets some of the movement back and can locate his pitches, he can win games without mowing guys down with his velocity, but there aren't many pitchers out there who've been able to pitch to the corners with movement the way Maddux did, and it's not something Roy's ever really had to do before.
Rich Dubee's been getting a lot of (IMHO undeserved) criticism lately, and he has a real chance to silence the haters if he can get Doc back on track.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:03 PM on May 6, 2013
I'm hoping for more of a Greg Maddux type situation. Roy can be successful again even if he never gets his 92+ MPH fastball back, but it's the lack of movement on the cutter and two-seamer that's been hurting him more than the lack of velocity this year. If he gets some of the movement back and can locate his pitches, he can win games without mowing guys down with his velocity, but there aren't many pitchers out there who've been able to pitch to the corners with movement the way Maddux did, and it's not something Roy's ever really had to do before.
Rich Dubee's been getting a lot of (IMHO undeserved) criticism lately, and he has a real chance to silence the haters if he can get Doc back on track.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:03 PM on May 6, 2013
It's been nice to have former Phillie Hunter Pence on the roster, not least because when he smacks one good I get to pretend to be a baseball announcer by shouting "UNDER PAAAANTS!!"
posted by rtha at 3:27 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by rtha at 3:27 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
In another classic "Be careful what you wish for" warning, the Angels appear to be well on their way to their second soul-crushing season in a row, which is also their second season in a row where they signed a high-profile, high-price free agent in the off-season (Albert Pujols last year, Josh Hamilton this year), who immediately went into a huge slump upon debuting for the Angels.
According to this chart, the Angels payroll for 2013 is $111,165,650 higher than their AL West division rival Astros, and thus far it has produced 3 more wins.
posted by The Gooch at 3:34 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
According to this chart, the Angels payroll for 2013 is $111,165,650 higher than their AL West division rival Astros, and thus far it has produced 3 more wins.
posted by The Gooch at 3:34 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Gooch, don't look at the A's.
posted by LionIndex at 5:30 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by LionIndex at 5:30 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
For those wondering why a player like Bryce Harper doesn't make more money, a quick synopsis of how player's salaries are controlled:
-Teams set salaries for a player's first three major league seasons
-For the next 3, they are still controlled by the team, but are eligible for salary arbitration, meaning the player can ask for an arbitrator to set their next year's salary if they are not happy with what the team offers them (arbitration can only set salary for the coming season).
-Only after 6 years of full major league service time, is the player able to garner their full market value on the open market from the highest bidder.
So while Harper would be easily be worth $15-$20 Million per year on the open market, his salary is artificially depressed because the Nationals own his rights for another five years.
posted by dry white toast at 9:37 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
-Teams set salaries for a player's first three major league seasons
-For the next 3, they are still controlled by the team, but are eligible for salary arbitration, meaning the player can ask for an arbitrator to set their next year's salary if they are not happy with what the team offers them (arbitration can only set salary for the coming season).
-Only after 6 years of full major league service time, is the player able to garner their full market value on the open market from the highest bidder.
So while Harper would be easily be worth $15-$20 Million per year on the open market, his salary is artificially depressed because the Nationals own his rights for another five years.
posted by dry white toast at 9:37 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
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posted by Mister_A at 11:23 AM on May 6, 2013