300 Game Mechanics (give or take)
August 4, 2013 12:10 AM Subscribe
This is my attempt to document three hundred different gameplay concepts of my own creation. Sean Howard, creator of the webcomic A Modest Destiny, started publishing ideas and examinations of game mechanics once a day in 2007. After fifty days he quit the daily schedule, but he's up to 168 ideas and also has a small collection of prototypes and free-to-use pixel art.
At least one game based on the ideas has been on Metafilter previously.
At least one game based on the ideas has been on Metafilter previously.
Ideas are nice, yes, but so often a good implementation is needed to make the idea shine. And everyone has ideas.
posted by JHarris at 1:35 AM on August 4, 2013
posted by JHarris at 1:35 AM on August 4, 2013
Indie game developer Sean Barrett based a game on Idea #056.
posted by baf at 2:34 AM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by baf at 2:34 AM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Here is a nice paper talking about the core mechanics that make a game fun.
It could help to triage between these concepts and find the ones worth implementing.
posted by mparramon at 2:40 AM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
It could help to triage between these concepts and find the ones worth implementing.
posted by mparramon at 2:40 AM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I had an idea for a game the other day: a second-person shooter, where you (the player) take the part of the (destructible & stuff) environment, throwing everything you can to thwart a single rampaging hero.
It's probably been done before (tower defense games come to mind) but the idea of flipping the camera around and throwing obstacles/enemies in the way of a well-armed juggernaut seemed really novel and appealing to me at the time.
So I guess my question is: has this been done? Done well?
posted by ShutterBun at 5:20 AM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's probably been done before (tower defense games come to mind) but the idea of flipping the camera around and throwing obstacles/enemies in the way of a well-armed juggernaut seemed really novel and appealing to me at the time.
So I guess my question is: has this been done? Done well?
posted by ShutterBun at 5:20 AM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is wicked cool. I don't generally even play games, but a lot of these are really fascinating on a conceptual level.
posted by threeants at 5:27 AM on August 4, 2013
posted by threeants at 5:27 AM on August 4, 2013
So I guess my question is: has this been done? Done well?
Atomic Creep Spawner instantly came to mind.
Rock Paper Shotgun had a small writeup:
Atomic Creep Spawner instantly came to mind.
Rock Paper Shotgun had a small writeup:
In short, a hack ‘n’ slash hero invades your lair, and you spawn writhing horde after writhing horde of monsters to stop said goodie-two-swords from breaking all your cool stuff.posted by xqwzts at 5:39 AM on August 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Thanks, xqwzts, that's pretty much what I had in mind. Looks like it's still novel enough to be considered..err..."novel." I'd love to see a "Second Person" version of it, as well.
posted by ShutterBun at 5:43 AM on August 4, 2013
posted by ShutterBun at 5:43 AM on August 4, 2013
Atomic Creep Spawner instantly came to mind.
Rock Paper Shotgun had a small writeup:
In short, a hack ‘n’ slash hero invades your lair, and you spawn writhing horde after writhing horde of monsters to stop said goodie-two-swords from breaking all your cool stuff.
Hey! that looks like Dungeon Keeper!
posted by yeolcoatl at 7:20 AM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Rock Paper Shotgun had a small writeup:
In short, a hack ‘n’ slash hero invades your lair, and you spawn writhing horde after writhing horde of monsters to stop said goodie-two-swords from breaking all your cool stuff.
Hey! that looks like Dungeon Keeper!
posted by yeolcoatl at 7:20 AM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ideas are nice, yes, but so often a good implementation is needed to make the idea shine. And everyone has ideas.
You know what, my instincts would leave me inclined to agree with you, but I've learned that not everyone has ideas. Or perhaps they do, but they're so dismissive of them that they find it easier to act on other people's than to bring their own into the light. Regardless, if you have an idea and you're not going to implement it, whether for lack for lack of time or simple lack of focus, I think it's laudable to put it out there and mentally walk it through a bit rather than to just shelve it. That way it can at least inspire other people.
In that sense I really appreciate the work Sean Howard is doing here, as well as the work people like @webbedspace and Peter Molydeux just throwing ideas out there at a faster pace than anyone could implement them. Even if most are duds, some are provocative and serve as jumping off points, and that's better than silence or filling the pages of a dusty journal.
posted by 23 at 9:10 AM on August 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
You know what, my instincts would leave me inclined to agree with you, but I've learned that not everyone has ideas. Or perhaps they do, but they're so dismissive of them that they find it easier to act on other people's than to bring their own into the light. Regardless, if you have an idea and you're not going to implement it, whether for lack for lack of time or simple lack of focus, I think it's laudable to put it out there and mentally walk it through a bit rather than to just shelve it. That way it can at least inspire other people.
In that sense I really appreciate the work Sean Howard is doing here, as well as the work people like @webbedspace and Peter Molydeux just throwing ideas out there at a faster pace than anyone could implement them. Even if most are duds, some are provocative and serve as jumping off points, and that's better than silence or filling the pages of a dusty journal.
posted by 23 at 9:10 AM on August 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
One thing I haven't found is a game about economic contraction, about trimming unnecessary bits and "soft landing" sustainably.
Games with an exponential growth mechanic are pretty much everywhere. Graceful-decay-based games are nonexistent.
E.g. "Sim City" versus "Sim Detroit".
I think this says something about our chance as a species of co-existing on our planet.
posted by anthill at 9:13 AM on August 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Games with an exponential growth mechanic are pretty much everywhere. Graceful-decay-based games are nonexistent.
E.g. "Sim City" versus "Sim Detroit".
I think this says something about our chance as a species of co-existing on our planet.
posted by anthill at 9:13 AM on August 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
One thing I haven't found is a game about economic contraction, about trimming unnecessary bits and "soft landing" sustainably.
I used to play out Civ games long after most of the planet had been destroyed by nuclear war, trying to eke out an existence on tundra squares. It got boring. (Though I wasn't nearly as dedicated as this guy)
There was also Alter Ego, where the endgame was to age gracefully in spite of your failing health and personality flaws.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:14 AM on August 4, 2013
I used to play out Civ games long after most of the planet had been destroyed by nuclear war, trying to eke out an existence on tundra squares. It got boring. (Though I wasn't nearly as dedicated as this guy)
There was also Alter Ego, where the endgame was to age gracefully in spite of your failing health and personality flaws.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:14 AM on August 4, 2013
better than silence or filling the pages of a dusty journal
The journal is long gone so I will try to give this summary from memory. Forgive me if I've already explained this before.
It is an 80s arcade style game in terms of the graphics and music aesthetic.
ATOM BOMBER
In a series of ever more difficult rounds you are trying to blow out a candle with a nuclear bomb detonation. Each round you have a new world famous city to play in. The camera zooms in from a satellite view to the outer periphery of the city, into an open window where your team mate has the dining table set up with champagne chilling in an ice bucket, a fancy lace tablecloth, and the single candle in its candleholder. Your team mate lights the candle, and you then zoom out again to a bird's eye view of the city, where you select your nuke and set the target point some kilometers away from the candle, in the city center.
After launch you are given a split screen with bird's eye view, view of the dining room looking out the window towards ground zero, and of the candle.
Points are given on an exponential scale such that doing massive property damage to your candle site allows you to play on but with only the most grudging of "victories" and very low points. Blowing out the candle without disturbing anything else at the site gets huge points.
You have a limited set of team-members, so killing them off leads to game over fairly quick.
Lots of easter eggs and achievements to unlock, making no two plays alike. Different bombs added to your arsenal as you progress, from Tsar Bomba to neutron bombs to the Davy Crockett recoilless rifle.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:29 AM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
The journal is long gone so I will try to give this summary from memory. Forgive me if I've already explained this before.
It is an 80s arcade style game in terms of the graphics and music aesthetic.
ATOM BOMBER
In a series of ever more difficult rounds you are trying to blow out a candle with a nuclear bomb detonation. Each round you have a new world famous city to play in. The camera zooms in from a satellite view to the outer periphery of the city, into an open window where your team mate has the dining table set up with champagne chilling in an ice bucket, a fancy lace tablecloth, and the single candle in its candleholder. Your team mate lights the candle, and you then zoom out again to a bird's eye view of the city, where you select your nuke and set the target point some kilometers away from the candle, in the city center.
After launch you are given a split screen with bird's eye view, view of the dining room looking out the window towards ground zero, and of the candle.
Points are given on an exponential scale such that doing massive property damage to your candle site allows you to play on but with only the most grudging of "victories" and very low points. Blowing out the candle without disturbing anything else at the site gets huge points.
You have a limited set of team-members, so killing them off leads to game over fairly quick.
Lots of easter eggs and achievements to unlock, making no two plays alike. Different bombs added to your arsenal as you progress, from Tsar Bomba to neutron bombs to the Davy Crockett recoilless rifle.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:29 AM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
The prototypes link in the FPP has implementations of some of these.
Alas, not the Communist Zombie Mud, which was hands down my favorite when I first saw the site like 5 years ago. I'm glad he ultimately decided to continue the project.
posted by kagredon at 11:46 AM on August 4, 2013
Alas, not the Communist Zombie Mud, which was hands down my favorite when I first saw the site like 5 years ago. I'm glad he ultimately decided to continue the project.
posted by kagredon at 11:46 AM on August 4, 2013
When I have time I'll try to dig up a link, but I'd heard this guy has tried to go after people that try to use these ideas.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:48 PM on August 4, 2013
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:48 PM on August 4, 2013
Wow, I remember this guy. AMD was funny at the start, then he did Starship Destiny which was funny while it lasted, then he tried to get serious and yeahhhh, it stopped being good after that.
I read his blog a bit back in the day. He had a big rant about how dumb MMO systems as you'd see everyone walking around with the same best weapon for the level, so the solution would be have items stats depend on slotting gems into it, and players would have to learn themselves what gems were valuable to hold on to, and how to arrange them for best effect.
I failed to see what would prevent people from simply posting the best designs online. I wasn't impressed, though this was a lot of years ago, so he could have improved since then.
posted by Canageek at 1:00 PM on August 4, 2013
I read his blog a bit back in the day. He had a big rant about how dumb MMO systems as you'd see everyone walking around with the same best weapon for the level, so the solution would be have items stats depend on slotting gems into it, and players would have to learn themselves what gems were valuable to hold on to, and how to arrange them for best effect.
I failed to see what would prevent people from simply posting the best designs online. I wasn't impressed, though this was a lot of years ago, so he could have improved since then.
posted by Canageek at 1:00 PM on August 4, 2013
See also: In Praise of Sticky Friction
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 2:57 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 2:57 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think the author of that is operating under a different definition of "friction" than one I've ever seen used, but since he never bothers to define his terms, I can't be sure.
posted by kagredon at 4:19 PM on August 4, 2013
posted by kagredon at 4:19 PM on August 4, 2013
Did you read the whole article? I had the same thought about halfway through the very very long intro, but eventually he finishes intro-ing and gives pretty clear definitions of at least a dozen different kinds of "friction". It was really interesting, actually--worth the wait.
posted by equalpants at 4:25 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by equalpants at 4:25 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I will confess that I gave up reading and switched to skimming and ctrl-f-ing "friction" (which didn't turn up anything useful) after reading too many sentences along the lines of "Eventually, here in Japan Land..." and "They would tell me to fuck myself — which in Japanese requires abut 72 seconds of continuous polite speech, with four distinct, curt bows."
Maybe I am missing out on the most brilliant op-ed on video game design ever, but somehow I don't think so.
posted by kagredon at 4:32 PM on August 4, 2013
Maybe I am missing out on the most brilliant op-ed on video game design ever, but somehow I don't think so.
posted by kagredon at 4:32 PM on August 4, 2013
Maybe I am missing out on the most brilliant op-ed on video game design ever, but somehow I don't think so.
To be honest, you are. Tim Rogers' writing has changed the way I think about videogames.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:36 PM on August 4, 2013
Well, I ain't saying it's the most brilliant op-ed on video game design ever, but he absolutely does define his terms, at least. Ctrl-F for "frictionary" if you have any interest in seeing them.
posted by equalpants at 4:37 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by equalpants at 4:37 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Oh, wait, I found it, down at the very very end:
The Frictionary
Crunch is when things collide, hold there for an instant, and then, in that instant of holding, a "winner" is determined, and it is that winner who proceeds beyond the loser.
Swish is when you press a button and something enormous and possibly impressive happens what feels, momentarily, beyond your control.
Bad swishing is what we call Soupy friction. That's bad swishing. Games shouldn't be soupy — they should be Chunky. We can talk about chunky in a minute.
Chunky friction, on the one hand, isn't soupy; rather than feel like you're floating downstream, you feel like you're swimming up a river, or possibly — depending on the game — up Niagara Falls. Chunky games don't flow freely. Have you ever played Sonic Rush on the Nintendo DS? That's a game with no chunk.
Sticky friction is the one I keep talking about. I should probably explain it already. It's maybe the most important type of friction. You know the God of War games? That's all they've got — sticky friction. [...]
The point of sticky friction is that it lets the player savor the maybe-massive weight of what he just did.
[...]
The reason sticky friction is the most important friction is because it lets the player really sponge up the (in-game) reality of the awesome thing he just did.
Velcro friction is a specific type of sticky friction. It's when two objects in the game world stick together, only one of them continues to move and the other doesn't. There is relatively little crunch to it.
Juicy (also known as "jiggly" or "wiggly") is a kind of friction I personally don't like that much. Some people seem to love it. It's when stuff moves a lot.
and so on for like five other poorly-defined adjectives
These have nothing to do with friction, as it is popularly or scientifically understood. I am skeptical of the conceit that they have very much to do with one another, apart from being different reactions that the author had to video games. This is an exceedingly poorly written essay.
posted by kagredon at 4:40 PM on August 4, 2013
The Frictionary
Crunch is when things collide, hold there for an instant, and then, in that instant of holding, a "winner" is determined, and it is that winner who proceeds beyond the loser.
Swish is when you press a button and something enormous and possibly impressive happens what feels, momentarily, beyond your control.
Bad swishing is what we call Soupy friction. That's bad swishing. Games shouldn't be soupy — they should be Chunky. We can talk about chunky in a minute.
Chunky friction, on the one hand, isn't soupy; rather than feel like you're floating downstream, you feel like you're swimming up a river, or possibly — depending on the game — up Niagara Falls. Chunky games don't flow freely. Have you ever played Sonic Rush on the Nintendo DS? That's a game with no chunk.
Sticky friction is the one I keep talking about. I should probably explain it already. It's maybe the most important type of friction. You know the God of War games? That's all they've got — sticky friction. [...]
The point of sticky friction is that it lets the player savor the maybe-massive weight of what he just did.
[...]
The reason sticky friction is the most important friction is because it lets the player really sponge up the (in-game) reality of the awesome thing he just did.
Velcro friction is a specific type of sticky friction. It's when two objects in the game world stick together, only one of them continues to move and the other doesn't. There is relatively little crunch to it.
Juicy (also known as "jiggly" or "wiggly") is a kind of friction I personally don't like that much. Some people seem to love it. It's when stuff moves a lot.
and so on for like five other poorly-defined adjectives
These have nothing to do with friction, as it is popularly or scientifically understood. I am skeptical of the conceit that they have very much to do with one another, apart from being different reactions that the author had to video games. This is an exceedingly poorly written essay.
posted by kagredon at 4:40 PM on August 4, 2013
That's a really weird criticism. Yes, his 17 (not 5--took like 10 seconds to count them) varieties of "friction" have nothing to do with the usual definition of "friction". (Well, most of them don't, anyway.) He's making up his own terms. Not sure why that's a problem.
Dude, come on. You gave up reading early on because his voice/tone is annoying. There's nothing wrong with that. There is no need to invent other problems with the essay. The only thing you're demonstrating is that you didn't read it. (Which is fine!)
posted by equalpants at 4:57 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Dude, come on. You gave up reading early on because his voice/tone is annoying. There's nothing wrong with that. There is no need to invent other problems with the essay. The only thing you're demonstrating is that you didn't read it. (Which is fine!)
posted by equalpants at 4:57 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
No, my objection is that his terms are still very vague, poorly defined, and have no common element that makes them comparable that he makes clear.
I've read the whole essay now, and still think so. Thanks though.
posted by kagredon at 5:01 PM on August 4, 2013
I've read the whole essay now, and still think so. Thanks though.
posted by kagredon at 5:01 PM on August 4, 2013
also, why "friction"? that was a word choice that wasn't explained at all, even in the "frictionary" (gag). why use a perfectly cromulent word to sum up your ill-defined hierarchy of video game experiences? honestly I don't even care that much about how badly the rest of the article is written, I'm just angry about the constant repurposing of physics terms to completely unrelated and incoherent things
posted by kagredon at 5:09 PM on August 4, 2013
posted by kagredon at 5:09 PM on August 4, 2013
also, why "friction"? why use a perfectly cromulent word to sum up your ill-defined hierarchy of video game experiences? honestly I don't even care that much about how badly the rest of the article is written, I'm just angry about the constant repurposing of physics terms to completely unrelated and incoherent things
It's not just a physics term. 'Friction' is what it feels like when your shield blocks a blow in Spartan: Total Warrior (which I first heard about from Tim Rogers). 'Friction' is the click of an Active Reload in Gears of War, and the SNAP as you get behind cover.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:11 PM on August 4, 2013
'Friction' is what it feels like when your shield blocks a blow in Spartan: Total Warrior (which I first heard about from Tim Rogers). 'Friction' is the click of an Active Reload in Gears of War, and the SNAP as you get behind cover.
No, see, you're doing the exact same thign. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WHY IS THAT EXPERIENCE RELEVEANT? WHAT AT ALL DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH FRICTION
WORDS MEAN THIGNS JFC STOP ACTING LIKE THEY DONT FUCKING MEZN THINGS
posted by kagredon at 5:12 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
No, see, you're doing the exact same thign. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WHY IS THAT EXPERIENCE RELEVEANT? WHAT AT ALL DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH FRICTION
WORDS MEAN THIGNS JFC STOP ACTING LIKE THEY DONT FUCKING MEZN THINGS
posted by kagredon at 5:12 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's the SNAP of your controller against your opponent, or as he talks about the tug of the ground against Mario. Or, to use a game Tim Rogers hates, the curve that planatery gravity introduces in Angry Birds: Space. Its the pleasent tension between the player's action and the systems of the game.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:14 PM on August 4, 2013
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:14 PM on August 4, 2013
I thought it was pretty clear that the word stuck itself into his head at an early age, and there's no changing it now--that's just his personal term for that stuff. Honestly I can see where it comes from, since a couple of his varieties do have something to do with physical friction--for example, his "sticky" friction where time stops for a split second when you hit something is kind of reminiscent of pushing harder until you overcome the force of static friction.
Also there's kind of a relation in terms of control. I push some physical object, that's my input to the system; the friction resists my action, that's feedback. And these are all about what kinds of feedback the game gives you when you put certain inputs into it.
Of course many of the other terms have nothing at all to do with physical friction. So maybe it's not the best metaphor. I thought it was okay, though.
posted by equalpants at 5:23 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also there's kind of a relation in terms of control. I push some physical object, that's my input to the system; the friction resists my action, that's feedback. And these are all about what kinds of feedback the game gives you when you put certain inputs into it.
Of course many of the other terms have nothing at all to do with physical friction. So maybe it's not the best metaphor. I thought it was okay, though.
posted by equalpants at 5:23 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
P.S. lest we spend all day discussing this essay which wasn't actually part of the post:
Thanks for the post, 23--this 300 mechanics website is really amazing.
posted by equalpants at 5:31 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Thanks for the post, 23--this 300 mechanics website is really amazing.
posted by equalpants at 5:31 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'd heard this guy has tried to go after people that try to use these ideas.
Turns out I'd conflated two stories in my mind- he was trying to legally stop people from using Penny Arcade forum avatars substantially similar to his artwork, and separately he asked for attribution for the game concept used in Nitrome's "Yin Yang" linked above (in the comments).
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:35 PM on August 4, 2013
Turns out I'd conflated two stories in my mind- he was trying to legally stop people from using Penny Arcade forum avatars substantially similar to his artwork, and separately he asked for attribution for the game concept used in Nitrome's "Yin Yang" linked above (in the comments).
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:35 PM on August 4, 2013
I had not heard of that Penny Arcade thing before and that is nuts. However, for these ideas he's just requesting credit:
Can I use the gameplay mechanics for myself?posted by 23 at 10:48 PM on August 4, 2013
Yes, absolutely. I have created this website to inspire creativity in others and not only are you allowed, you are encouraged. My one thing is that if you do build on an idea from this website, please let people know. A little credit goes a long way and it would be greatly appreciated.
So I guess my question is: has this been done? Done well?
posted by ShutterBun at 5:20 AM on August 4 [+] [!]
There is a game called 2nd Person shooter, but it's a bit different.
I know the writer of that description, and from memory proofed/edited it for her
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 5:29 AM on August 5, 2013
posted by ShutterBun at 5:20 AM on August 4 [+] [!]
There is a game called 2nd Person shooter, but it's a bit different.
I know the writer of that description, and from memory proofed/edited it for her
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 5:29 AM on August 5, 2013
Hmm, I am seeing a game called "Zato" that is touted as a 2nd Person Shooter, but yeah, it's different than I imagined. (Basically you are still the protagonist, but you see yourself from the enemy's point of view. Basically "shooting the camera."
posted by ShutterBun at 6:13 PM on August 5, 2013
posted by ShutterBun at 6:13 PM on August 5, 2013
One thing I haven't found is a game about economic contraction, about trimming unnecessary bits and "soft landing" sustainably.
There's a flash game called Bonsai Worlds that's a lot about the unsustainability of unchecked growth. You create an island and seed it with a village. The village grows, but the wood is used up on the island. Eventually you run out of wood, and the population begins to drop, rapidly. There's not much gameplay, the only challenge is to have the population dip to a level that allows trees to grow back and restart the cycle all over again, but not dip so deep that everyone dies.
posted by FJT at 12:50 AM on August 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
There's a flash game called Bonsai Worlds that's a lot about the unsustainability of unchecked growth. You create an island and seed it with a village. The village grows, but the wood is used up on the island. Eventually you run out of wood, and the population begins to drop, rapidly. There's not much gameplay, the only challenge is to have the population dip to a level that allows trees to grow back and restart the cycle all over again, but not dip so deep that everyone dies.
posted by FJT at 12:50 AM on August 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have made a prototype of mechanic 83, ASCII 3D. You can view a screenshot or download it here.
I made it in Processing which makes 3D pretty easy to do. It actually feels pretty nice to move around in, and I'd definitely play a roguelike that looked like this, although I've no plans to personally expand on this prototype.
Also I'm pretty sure this thread is dead by now and so no-one will ever see this comment. Oh well.
posted by Nossidge at 10:12 AM on August 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
I made it in Processing which makes 3D pretty easy to do. It actually feels pretty nice to move around in, and I'd definitely play a roguelike that looked like this, although I've no plans to personally expand on this prototype.
Also I'm pretty sure this thread is dead by now and so no-one will ever see this comment. Oh well.
posted by Nossidge at 10:12 AM on August 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Nossidge: I saw it, it just gave me a headache.
Sorry.
posted by Canageek at 2:31 PM on August 16, 2013
Sorry.
posted by Canageek at 2:31 PM on August 16, 2013
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