911 operators wrong but not biased, boss tells court.
January 9, 2002 4:39 AM Subscribe
911 operators wrong but not biased, boss tells court. Two Winnipeg women murdered after repeated emergency calls ignored.
Twice in my life I have witnessed police responding to accidental 911 calls. Someone misdialed, the police called back, then physically came to the call's house of origin. Both times this happened in a college town from houses known for loud parties and illegal drug activity.
Once in my life, three of my family members were killed by a fourth, despite repeated 911 calls reporting the threat. This happened in a rural area, and the police eventually did come but long after the damage was done.
I don't sense a greater conspiracy, since the the incidents I mentioned took place in different areas and under different police departments. However, I think in cases where 911 negligence, whether racially motivated or due to plain idiocy, ignorance, or laziness, results in someone's death, the 911 operator should in some way be held legally responsible.
And whether or not the operator in the article was biased against the callers, the fact remains that the women called five times. The operator in question is either a bigot, a complete and total fucking idiot, or abominably lazy and shouldn't be within five miles of incoming emergency calls.
posted by jennyb at 7:04 AM on January 9, 2002
Once in my life, three of my family members were killed by a fourth, despite repeated 911 calls reporting the threat. This happened in a rural area, and the police eventually did come but long after the damage was done.
I don't sense a greater conspiracy, since the the incidents I mentioned took place in different areas and under different police departments. However, I think in cases where 911 negligence, whether racially motivated or due to plain idiocy, ignorance, or laziness, results in someone's death, the 911 operator should in some way be held legally responsible.
And whether or not the operator in the article was biased against the callers, the fact remains that the women called five times. The operator in question is either a bigot, a complete and total fucking idiot, or abominably lazy and shouldn't be within five miles of incoming emergency calls.
posted by jennyb at 7:04 AM on January 9, 2002
jennyb: I completely agree with your take on this. I have personally been visited at home 3 times due to accidental 911 calls, the response was so swift it actually scared me, under 5 minutes to my door and a knock.
They called five times from the same number...put jennyb's last paragraph here.
posted by bittennails at 7:16 AM on January 9, 2002
They called five times from the same number...put jennyb's last paragraph here.
posted by bittennails at 7:16 AM on January 9, 2002
If 911 operators were liable for their mistakes how many people do you suppose would be 911 operators?
posted by srboisvert at 7:25 AM on January 9, 2002
posted by srboisvert at 7:25 AM on January 9, 2002
Of course they are liable for their mistakes, everyone is. Some mistakes kill people though and some are easily forgiven.
posted by bittennails at 7:51 AM on January 9, 2002
posted by bittennails at 7:51 AM on January 9, 2002
What he means is liable in the legal sense, i.e., they could be sued. However, I seem to recall that courts have already ruled that the police cannot be held liable for failing to prevent a crime.
posted by kindall at 8:47 AM on January 9, 2002
posted by kindall at 8:47 AM on January 9, 2002
Lesson: You are responsible for your own protection. The police do a wonderful job if they are present, but they can't be everywhere and lines of communication can fail.
If you live in an area that is civilized enough that you are allowed to defend yourself, do so. Sadly, these women lived in Canada so they didn't have much of a legal means of self-defense.
Related: Dial 911 And Die
posted by hadashi at 8:48 AM on January 9, 2002
If you live in an area that is civilized enough that you are allowed to defend yourself, do so. Sadly, these women lived in Canada so they didn't have much of a legal means of self-defense.
Related: Dial 911 And Die
posted by hadashi at 8:48 AM on January 9, 2002
That's horrible, I may be naive but if I call 911 and don't even say a word I expect someone to come knocking pretty damn quick, to have called FIVE times, mentioned a stabbing and still receive no response is absoultely unforgiveable.
posted by zeoslap at 9:13 AM on January 9, 2002
posted by zeoslap at 9:13 AM on January 9, 2002
"However, I seem to recall that courts have already ruled that the police cannot be held liable for failing to prevent a crime."
Yeah, I think you're right. I feel like the gross negligence on the part of the 911 operator in the article (and the one from my experience, although I'm admittedly biased there) shouldn't go unpunished. I don't want to encourage ghoulish lawsuits, and it seems some kind of legal accountability (like charging the operator with accessory to murder or involuntary manslaughter) is a slippery slope. So what can we do to make sure that despite bias, or tiredness, or not caring that the operators follow their trained protocols when they receive distress calls?
posted by jennyb at 10:19 AM on January 9, 2002
Yeah, I think you're right. I feel like the gross negligence on the part of the 911 operator in the article (and the one from my experience, although I'm admittedly biased there) shouldn't go unpunished. I don't want to encourage ghoulish lawsuits, and it seems some kind of legal accountability (like charging the operator with accessory to murder or involuntary manslaughter) is a slippery slope. So what can we do to make sure that despite bias, or tiredness, or not caring that the operators follow their trained protocols when they receive distress calls?
posted by jennyb at 10:19 AM on January 9, 2002
If you ask me (and I know you didn't) I think the operators shouldn't be liable for the murders which they didn't commit, but however should be liable for gross negligence in handling their duties.
It seems to me the fair punishment would be to ban these people from doing emergency services jobs for at least a decade. This way it is clear to 911 operators that if you can't (or won't) do your job you'll never do it again, but you aren't liable for murder or any other wacky thing that goes on in the caller's residence. If you do your job adequately, you haven't to worry. If you are a pathetically useless 911 operator (like the person handling these calls) then you should look for another job, not just because you'll be happier, but out of respect for the people you are serving.
posted by shepd at 11:28 AM on January 9, 2002
It seems to me the fair punishment would be to ban these people from doing emergency services jobs for at least a decade. This way it is clear to 911 operators that if you can't (or won't) do your job you'll never do it again, but you aren't liable for murder or any other wacky thing that goes on in the caller's residence. If you do your job adequately, you haven't to worry. If you are a pathetically useless 911 operator (like the person handling these calls) then you should look for another job, not just because you'll be happier, but out of respect for the people you are serving.
posted by shepd at 11:28 AM on January 9, 2002
If you live in an area that is civilized enough that you are allowed to defend yourself, do so. Sadly, these women lived in Canada so they didn't have much of a legal means of self-defense.
Translated: Let’s turn this into a gun control thread. Please. Begging.
posted by Firefly at 2:55 PM on January 9, 2002
Translated: Let’s turn this into a gun control thread. Please. Begging.
posted by Firefly at 2:55 PM on January 9, 2002
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The easiest way to figure out whether or not bias was involved is to seek a pattern. Analyze the dispatchers' previous calls and compare.
posted by Mach3avelli at 5:09 AM on January 9, 2002