Welcome to the Jungle
June 15, 2014 11:34 PM Subscribe
Guns n' Roses, Welcome to the Jungle: guitars and bass only (impeccably clear tracks); lead guitar and bass removed (highlighting the vocal and drum tracks).
The slight desync with the youtube doubler is awesome. Hoping people start posting their remixes in this thread.
posted by jonbro at 5:05 AM on June 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by jonbro at 5:05 AM on June 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
Is it still fair to call this album "critically underrated"? I feel like this particular record gets lumped in with a lot of Sunset Strip garbage from the 80's, when it might be more aptly termed the Aerosmith record Aerosmith could never make, or better than that—a punk album made by sleazoid aliens from the planet Rainbow Room. I dunno. The energy of the album doesn't sync up very well with how it was marketed. This is nothing like Winger or Bullet Boys. I always thought there was a lot to like on "Appetite", and the playing is obviously great.
posted by littlerobothead at 6:09 AM on June 16, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by littlerobothead at 6:09 AM on June 16, 2014 [9 favorites]
Someone needs to remove the drums from that second link and run it through SongSmith. I already have a title: "Welcome to the Songsmith".
posted by charred husk at 6:33 AM on June 16, 2014
posted by charred husk at 6:33 AM on June 16, 2014
Is it really underrated? I bet it's easily on most top 100 rock albums of all time, and probably fairly high up on the list.
I don't think people lump it with glam crap. It seems most people know what it's about. They dig it. It's sleazy, it's heavy, it's bluesy, it's dark. It's not the pretty boy side of life, it's all about the dark corners of city living.
It's one of the few albums that I still listen to many years later when I'm in the mood.
I recall one time listening to it back around 2000 or so, and hearing a little "plink" in the guitar in one section (can't remember which song) and it was awesome to catch just a little tiny bit that I had never heard before. I don't know if it was intentional or just something that happened while recording on accident, but it was there and I loved finding it.
I know Adler was a fairly basic drummer, but there was something about his energy that I really loved. I'm glad he's still alive and doing his own thing (his current band sounds a lot like Guns and Roses... in fact, if you want a G'n'R sounding band like they were in the day, I'd say check it out...)
And Duff's bass lines... Really what an amazing bass player.
posted by symbioid at 6:43 AM on June 16, 2014 [5 favorites]
I don't think people lump it with glam crap. It seems most people know what it's about. They dig it. It's sleazy, it's heavy, it's bluesy, it's dark. It's not the pretty boy side of life, it's all about the dark corners of city living.
It's one of the few albums that I still listen to many years later when I'm in the mood.
I recall one time listening to it back around 2000 or so, and hearing a little "plink" in the guitar in one section (can't remember which song) and it was awesome to catch just a little tiny bit that I had never heard before. I don't know if it was intentional or just something that happened while recording on accident, but it was there and I loved finding it.
I know Adler was a fairly basic drummer, but there was something about his energy that I really loved. I'm glad he's still alive and doing his own thing (his current band sounds a lot like Guns and Roses... in fact, if you want a G'n'R sounding band like they were in the day, I'd say check it out...)
And Duff's bass lines... Really what an amazing bass player.
posted by symbioid at 6:43 AM on June 16, 2014 [5 favorites]
Slash's guitars sound really sloppy in isolation. I'm not surprised - they're not a prog band, after all - but it became clear how essential Axl's voice was to making that band successful.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:46 AM on June 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:46 AM on June 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
grumpybear69 - came in to say the exact same thing. The guitar is so loose, almost ponderous by itself, but when it's all together it masks a lot of the messiness and it just works.
posted by caution live frogs at 6:57 AM on June 16, 2014
posted by caution live frogs at 6:57 AM on June 16, 2014
I think Guns 'n' Roses were obviously influenced by bands like the New York Dolls and the Dead Boys, not just musically but visually. But they made the music a little heavier and more bluesy.
posted by ChuckRamone at 7:22 AM on June 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by ChuckRamone at 7:22 AM on June 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
Slash's guitars sound really sloppy in isolation. I'm not surprised - they're not a prog band, after all - but it became clear how essential Axl's voice was to making that band successful.
Lots of technical sloppiness is masked by the really noisy rhythm guitar bed. Also, in my opinion, the biggest guitar hooks in the song aren't from the actual solo playing, but from the shifting between somewhat quiet solo guitar just right of center, and the large sound of the wide-panned dual guitar fills. He plays nice solos, but then WHAM, in comes the cavalry.
posted by hanoixan at 7:39 AM on June 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
Lots of technical sloppiness is masked by the really noisy rhythm guitar bed. Also, in my opinion, the biggest guitar hooks in the song aren't from the actual solo playing, but from the shifting between somewhat quiet solo guitar just right of center, and the large sound of the wide-panned dual guitar fills. He plays nice solos, but then WHAM, in comes the cavalry.
posted by hanoixan at 7:39 AM on June 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
shanannananananananana knees! knees!
posted by Riton at 7:43 AM on June 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by Riton at 7:43 AM on June 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
I must say that, despite Axl's invitation, I never really felt all that welcomed to the jungle.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:52 AM on June 16, 2014 [19 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 7:52 AM on June 16, 2014 [19 favorites]
But they had fun! And games!
posted by Shepherd at 8:00 AM on June 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Shepherd at 8:00 AM on June 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
I must say that, despite Axl's invitation, I never really felt all that welcomed to the jungle.
It is difficult to feel welcome when, immediately upon arrival, your host taunts you with news of your impending demise.
posted by enkd at 8:39 AM on June 16, 2014 [5 favorites]
It is difficult to feel welcome when, immediately upon arrival, your host taunts you with news of your impending demise.
posted by enkd at 8:39 AM on June 16, 2014 [5 favorites]
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/attention-mr-axl-rose-we-did-not-feel-welcome-in-the-jungle
posted by Shepherd at 8:57 AM on June 16, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by Shepherd at 8:57 AM on June 16, 2014 [4 favorites]
Of course, the internet's leading critical commentary on this song suggests that maybe Axl meant "You're welcome to the jungle, I'm moving to the suburbs!"
posted by octobersurprise at 9:04 AM on June 16, 2014
posted by octobersurprise at 9:04 AM on June 16, 2014
For me, Izzy was the heart and soul of the band, when he left I was pretty much gone too, this post backs this up, I think.
His solo stuff is really great.
posted by Cosine at 9:26 AM on June 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
His solo stuff is really great.
posted by Cosine at 9:26 AM on June 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
1987: Appetite for destruction.
2014: Appetite for everything.
posted by mosk at 9:39 AM on June 16, 2014
2014: Appetite for everything.
posted by mosk at 9:39 AM on June 16, 2014
Can we not with the fat jokes?
posted by mirepoix at 10:55 AM on June 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by mirepoix at 10:55 AM on June 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
I was never a GnR fan, but I love this song. When we lived in Los Angeles, we had a signpainter neighbor who got us talking about having a welcome sign to hang over our front door--sort of a convention in the beachier neighborhoods. We also lived in a neighborhood in Playa Del Rey called The Jungle. Our welcome sign ended up reading, "Bienvenidos!" with a semicircle banner beneath it bearing "tenemos diversión y juegos." We left it for the new residents when we moved up to San Francisco, but we still consider "tenemos diversión y juegos" as sort of our family crest.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 11:10 AM on June 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 11:10 AM on June 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4382/554/1600/meat.1.gif
posted by stenseng at 1:01 PM on June 16, 2014
posted by stenseng at 1:01 PM on June 16, 2014
mirepoix: "Can we not with the fat jokes?"
Right. If we're gonna joke about his appearance, do it about the godawful mustache choice.
Saw a clip of him on Kimmel's show and he seemed really down to earth and chill.
I actually feel bad for him... He had this amazing voice and it is this... thing now. And he's done the plastic surgery thing and that mustache and... everyone picks on him for it, but he still seems to have this positive attitude and I was very impressed.
posted by symbioid at 1:44 PM on June 16, 2014
Right. If we're gonna joke about his appearance, do it about the godawful mustache choice.
Saw a clip of him on Kimmel's show and he seemed really down to earth and chill.
I actually feel bad for him... He had this amazing voice and it is this... thing now. And he's done the plastic surgery thing and that mustache and... everyone picks on him for it, but he still seems to have this positive attitude and I was very impressed.
posted by symbioid at 1:44 PM on June 16, 2014
Slash's guitars sound really sloppy in isolation.
I actually think that's a big part of the appeal, and it's intentional.
Is it still fair to call this album "critically underrated"?
I think it's rated just about where it should be by most critics, which is one of the best rock albums of the 80s. Rolling Stone has it as the 27th best album of the 80s, Pitchfork has it as #42. There is a lot of pop, R&B, and hip hop on the latter list so in terms of rock it's pretty universally acclaimed as one of the best of its era. Nothing else from the Sunset Strip scene is on either list, I don't think.
posted by cell divide at 7:17 PM on June 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
I actually think that's a big part of the appeal, and it's intentional.
Is it still fair to call this album "critically underrated"?
I think it's rated just about where it should be by most critics, which is one of the best rock albums of the 80s. Rolling Stone has it as the 27th best album of the 80s, Pitchfork has it as #42. There is a lot of pop, R&B, and hip hop on the latter list so in terms of rock it's pretty universally acclaimed as one of the best of its era. Nothing else from the Sunset Strip scene is on either list, I don't think.
posted by cell divide at 7:17 PM on June 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
I really wish the band hadn't broken up, if only so I could hear different GNR songs when I go to the gym. Because the gym soundtrack where I work out is GNR. Maybe 20 years from now it will be Slash and Myles Kennedy.
posted by peterdarbyshire at 7:52 PM on June 16, 2014
posted by peterdarbyshire at 7:52 PM on June 16, 2014
Slash's guitars sound really sloppy in isolation.
I actually think that's a big part of the appeal, and it's intentional.
What you're hearing is the guitars before they were run through post-processing. Audio engineers will typically run "like" tracks (like the three guitar tracks, or the drums and bass) through the same compressor or limiter unit to make them gel, timing-wise.
Properly tweaked, a compressor can tighten up the guitars, making it sound like they're all hitting at exactly the same time, when in reality there are slight, organic differences in each musician's playing (provided they're not Scandinavian musicians or Dream Theater).
After that, the engineer will usually apply compression to the entire mix, and the mastering engineer will compress it further (though usually with a much lighter touch, given how much everything's already been compressed). The entire song sounds fuller, tighter and louder. Bare rock tracks like these always sound less polished. This is what Slash sounds like when he's practicing, basically.
The part that's intentional is focusing on the emotional energy of the playing instead of hitting each note with robotic precision. You can tease precision out of the music using vacuum tubes and electronics, but you can't process emotion into the music quite yet.
posted by donblood at 10:50 PM on June 16, 2014 [5 favorites]
I actually think that's a big part of the appeal, and it's intentional.
What you're hearing is the guitars before they were run through post-processing. Audio engineers will typically run "like" tracks (like the three guitar tracks, or the drums and bass) through the same compressor or limiter unit to make them gel, timing-wise.
Properly tweaked, a compressor can tighten up the guitars, making it sound like they're all hitting at exactly the same time, when in reality there are slight, organic differences in each musician's playing (provided they're not Scandinavian musicians or Dream Theater).
After that, the engineer will usually apply compression to the entire mix, and the mastering engineer will compress it further (though usually with a much lighter touch, given how much everything's already been compressed). The entire song sounds fuller, tighter and louder. Bare rock tracks like these always sound less polished. This is what Slash sounds like when he's practicing, basically.
The part that's intentional is focusing on the emotional energy of the playing instead of hitting each note with robotic precision. You can tease precision out of the music using vacuum tubes and electronics, but you can't process emotion into the music quite yet.
posted by donblood at 10:50 PM on June 16, 2014 [5 favorites]
Also: a lot of audio engineers employ pallet cleanser music when they're working to prevent their ears from getting fatigued. It's helpful to remember what songs besides the one you're working on sound like.
When I was in a death metal band I worked with an engineer that played Lily Allen songs while mixes were rendering to disk. I'd love to know what Mike Clink was listening to between Appetite for Destruction sessions. Lead Belly maybe? Giorgio Moroder?
posted by donblood at 10:54 PM on June 16, 2014 [4 favorites]
When I was in a death metal band I worked with an engineer that played Lily Allen songs while mixes were rendering to disk. I'd love to know what Mike Clink was listening to between Appetite for Destruction sessions. Lead Belly maybe? Giorgio Moroder?
posted by donblood at 10:54 PM on June 16, 2014 [4 favorites]
I actually got them to sync up passably by advancing both videos to 5 seconds and starting from there. Doesn't make any sense, but neither does Chinese Democracy.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:16 AM on June 17, 2014
posted by ob1quixote at 1:16 AM on June 17, 2014
The song is also interesting in music theory terms because the verse seems to take a while to make up its mind whether it's in A or E.
It starts with the A chord and sets up the ear for a blues-derived kind of verse in that key, but the cadential gesture ends on E and that clearly is the tonal centre from that point on - although the a quick burst of the riff then sends you straight back to the A chord, 'cos it's relentless in the jungle etc.
The arrival at E is further disguised by an attention-grabbing walk up from C and D as the refrain is sung (it's the same as the 'I am the Walrus' verse ending refrain, only that is in A). This grinding upwards C-D-E gesture paints a sound picture that feels to me like being dragged through a gateway into somewhere bad while hanging on with my fingernails.
With this tonal centre being fought over, and the unexpected VI-flatVII-I ending, it's a very appropriate harmonic structure for the song's lyric theme of being lost and confused in a dangerous place where rules aren't followed.
posted by colie at 4:51 AM on June 17, 2014 [5 favorites]
It starts with the A chord and sets up the ear for a blues-derived kind of verse in that key, but the cadential gesture ends on E and that clearly is the tonal centre from that point on - although the a quick burst of the riff then sends you straight back to the A chord, 'cos it's relentless in the jungle etc.
The arrival at E is further disguised by an attention-grabbing walk up from C and D as the refrain is sung (it's the same as the 'I am the Walrus' verse ending refrain, only that is in A). This grinding upwards C-D-E gesture paints a sound picture that feels to me like being dragged through a gateway into somewhere bad while hanging on with my fingernails.
With this tonal centre being fought over, and the unexpected VI-flatVII-I ending, it's a very appropriate harmonic structure for the song's lyric theme of being lost and confused in a dangerous place where rules aren't followed.
posted by colie at 4:51 AM on June 17, 2014 [5 favorites]
I just came in to say that although I was never a GnR fan, I really enjoyed Duff McKagan's memoir. (He makes clear that he was definitely from the glam punk appreciators club, a Dead Boys and NY Dolls fan via '80s Seattle) Hooray for libraries!
posted by Erroneous at 6:46 PM on June 18, 2014
posted by Erroneous at 6:46 PM on June 18, 2014
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posted by Curious Artificer at 4:51 AM on June 16, 2014 [7 favorites]