I Watched Every Episode
February 23, 2015 8:51 AM Subscribe
Two and Half Men hit a new low every season and then continued to sink even further underground. During this last season, the show went off the rails in terms of absurdity and offensiveness. After a death scare, Walden decides that he wants to adopt a child and, since he’d have more luck if he were married, he and Alan decide to wed and adopt the child together. What follows are a plethora of obvious jokes, mostly at Alan’s expense — no one is surprised that he married a man; they all assumed he was gay already — as he girlishly demands a fancy wedding, fawns over his new husband, and brags about Walden’s attractiveness to everyone he can. Isn’t that funny, these two straight men playing gay for a roaring laugh track? It’s as low as the show can go but then, again, it goes lower. (SL Grantland)
Related: 'What I Learned Watching the Last Episode Ever of Two and a Half Men' [Jezebel]
posted by Fizz at 8:53 AM on February 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
Never saw it, never cared, and why should we?
Because despite its shallowness and crassness (maybe because of it?), it's a cultural touchstone for a lot of people. Consciously or not, people are influenced by the media they consume, and if a show with a huge viewer base ends with a huge middle finger "icky gay people, amirite?" moral, someone (many someones, likely) is going to take that to heart.
posted by backseatpilot at 9:01 AM on February 23, 2015 [10 favorites]
Because despite its shallowness and crassness (maybe because of it?), it's a cultural touchstone for a lot of people. Consciously or not, people are influenced by the media they consume, and if a show with a huge viewer base ends with a huge middle finger "icky gay people, amirite?" moral, someone (many someones, likely) is going to take that to heart.
posted by backseatpilot at 9:01 AM on February 23, 2015 [10 favorites]
I was hoping this show was about the contents of Jeffrey Dahmers refrigerator.
posted by dr_dank at 9:07 AM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 9:07 AM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
Wow, I didn't know the kid pulled a Kirk Cameron.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:08 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:08 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
It would be genuinely funny if the show's production team confusedly, wildly, stupidly overreacted to the problem of the show's homophobia by airing five full minutes of extremely tender, unsimulated fellatio between the married characters
posted by clockzero at 9:11 AM on February 23, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by clockzero at 9:11 AM on February 23, 2015 [16 favorites]
Anytime I’ve come close was due less to humor and more to patent absurdity: a CSI crossover episode, or a visit from Chuck Lorre’s other creations Dharma and Greg.And yet my yearning for a Dharma And Greg/Criminal Minds crossover is still unsated.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:11 AM on February 23, 2015 [16 favorites]
Okay, I watched the YouTube clip of the end with my own eyes, but I can't believe that that's really how it ended. Piano drops?
posted by books for weapons at 9:12 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by books for weapons at 9:12 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
> Two and a Half Men is popular because it’s pure escapism.
So is almost everything else on TV, and yet a lot of it somehow manages to not be (or be a lot less) hateful.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:14 AM on February 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
So is almost everything else on TV, and yet a lot of it somehow manages to not be (or be a lot less) hateful.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:14 AM on February 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'm surely not the only one who never watched the show and sort of vaguely assumed that the Two and a Half Men were boyfriends/spouses raising a kid together? And that when Sheen left, he was being tossed out for a younger man? So it's really just me, then?
Two and a Half Men, for all of its stereotypical sitcom tropes, was actually a rarity in that it managed to escape weekly critical scrutiny. It was a show that existed solely for the people who loved it intensely, and who didn’t need the Internet to validate their opinion.
I don't think this is necessarily true, though. Doesn't nearly every workhorse sitcom escape critical scrutiny? Did Everybody Loves Raymond get the weekly recap treatment? Two and a Half Men may be the most popular and most successful, but there are lots of them, both new and in syndication. Maybe I'm missing the point...
posted by muddgirl at 9:18 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
Two and a Half Men, for all of its stereotypical sitcom tropes, was actually a rarity in that it managed to escape weekly critical scrutiny. It was a show that existed solely for the people who loved it intensely, and who didn’t need the Internet to validate their opinion.
I don't think this is necessarily true, though. Doesn't nearly every workhorse sitcom escape critical scrutiny? Did Everybody Loves Raymond get the weekly recap treatment? Two and a Half Men may be the most popular and most successful, but there are lots of them, both new and in syndication. Maybe I'm missing the point...
posted by muddgirl at 9:18 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
> Okay, I watched the YouTube clip of the end with my own eyes, but I can't believe that that's really how it ended. Piano drops?
It's kind of perfect actually. The contempt the show radiated towards its characters ended with it being directed at its audience. Seriously, I'm not sure how it could have been more insulting to anyone who actually watched this piece of shit unless it had ended with a scene with the cast and executives looking into the camera and giving us the finger while they rubbed piles of cash all over their bodies.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:20 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's kind of perfect actually. The contempt the show radiated towards its characters ended with it being directed at its audience. Seriously, I'm not sure how it could have been more insulting to anyone who actually watched this piece of shit unless it had ended with a scene with the cast and executives looking into the camera and giving us the finger while they rubbed piles of cash all over their bodies.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:20 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
That this show was still on the air is simply inexplicable to me. The first season or two? Sure, there was some novelty factor (Not to mention the crazy neighbor Rose, played by Melanie Lynskey who was simply fantastic.)
It's in it's twelfth season. It's like Ancient Aliens (seven! seasons); you see it and fundamentally don't understand how it has managed to stay alive this long, when far better and more innovative shows are chopped, often before they get a full season aired; A to Z and Selfie from just the last couple of months come to mind, but there are so, so many more.
I make no bones about the fact that I hugely enjoy television, but there are some shows that should die. That's just unconscious knowledge.
posted by quin at 9:20 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's in it's twelfth season. It's like Ancient Aliens (seven! seasons); you see it and fundamentally don't understand how it has managed to stay alive this long, when far better and more innovative shows are chopped, often before they get a full season aired; A to Z and Selfie from just the last couple of months come to mind, but there are so, so many more.
I make no bones about the fact that I hugely enjoy television, but there are some shows that should die. That's just unconscious knowledge.
posted by quin at 9:20 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
Losing The Sheen is a hilarious podcast from Sydnee and Justin McElroy (now of Sawbones) hate watching the first Kutcher season. It's amazing.
posted by kmz at 9:21 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by kmz at 9:21 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
Never saw it, never cared, and why should we?
Because despite its shallowness and crassness (maybe because of it?), it's a cultural touchstone for a lot of people.
Yes, bu this particular Grantland piece doesn't really investigate that. The author explains why he watched it, suggests why critics ignored it, and posits why it stayed popular. Then he mentions that the ending is horrible. I'd like the follow-up where he attends Bi-Mon-Two-and-a-Half-Men-Con.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:21 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
Because despite its shallowness and crassness (maybe because of it?), it's a cultural touchstone for a lot of people.
Yes, bu this particular Grantland piece doesn't really investigate that. The author explains why he watched it, suggests why critics ignored it, and posits why it stayed popular. Then he mentions that the ending is horrible. I'd like the follow-up where he attends Bi-Mon-Two-and-a-Half-Men-Con.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:21 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
Isn’t that funny, these two straight men playing gay for a roaring laugh track?
I'd thought we'd made progress as a society since the late John Ritter played gay for a roaring laugh track in Three's Company*, but apparently Two and a Half Men literally doubled down.
*Which would only be unbelievable today because of the premise that a landlord wouldn't allow unmarried men and women to be roommates.
posted by Gelatin at 9:25 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'd thought we'd made progress as a society since the late John Ritter played gay for a roaring laugh track in Three's Company*, but apparently Two and a Half Men literally doubled down.
*Which would only be unbelievable today because of the premise that a landlord wouldn't allow unmarried men and women to be roommates.
posted by Gelatin at 9:25 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm just really sad to learn that Amber Tamblyn needed money that badly.
posted by kyrademon at 9:25 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 9:25 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
Sounds like this author should make a Full House Reviewed-type love/hate commentary blog.
posted by Melismata at 9:27 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 9:27 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
it's a cultural touchstone for a lot of people
True, but how does this happen? How does anyone fall so low as to adopt Two and a Half Men as a cultural touchstone? It it a sign of bad upbringing, or could it have a genetic component? How can we, as a caring society, prevent this from happening to anyone else?
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:30 AM on February 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
True, but how does this happen? How does anyone fall so low as to adopt Two and a Half Men as a cultural touchstone? It it a sign of bad upbringing, or could it have a genetic component? How can we, as a caring society, prevent this from happening to anyone else?
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:30 AM on February 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
(Pilot Viruet is not a dude.)
posted by kmz at 9:31 AM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by kmz at 9:31 AM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
True, but how does this happen? How does anyone fall so low as to adopt Two and a Half Men as a cultural touchstone? It it a sign of bad upbringing, or could it have a genetic component? How can we, as a caring society, prevent this from happening to anyone else?
Easy, it's cheese-burger television. This is what I call any television that is easy to consume and filling. You know what to expect, you know exactly what's inside, and even if you don't want one, it's right there, so why not.
posted by Fizz at 9:35 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Easy, it's cheese-burger television. This is what I call any television that is easy to consume and filling. You know what to expect, you know exactly what's inside, and even if you don't want one, it's right there, so why not.
posted by Fizz at 9:35 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
He watched every episode of Two and a Half Men? And he's not under quarantine??
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:35 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:35 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
The contempt the show radiated towards its characters ended with it being directed at its audience.
That's how I feel about Big Bang Theory. They took a show that celebrated intelligence and allowed those in the know to laugh alongside some lovable geeks. Then it turned into a show where everyone pairs off romantically like in a normal sitcom and we're supposed to laugh at them.
I read a take-down of the show and have never been able to view it the same again. It's pretty amazing how much the writers seem to despise their own characters. I'd link to it, but can't find it.
posted by cjorgensen at 9:35 AM on February 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
That's how I feel about Big Bang Theory. They took a show that celebrated intelligence and allowed those in the know to laugh alongside some lovable geeks. Then it turned into a show where everyone pairs off romantically like in a normal sitcom and we're supposed to laugh at them.
I read a take-down of the show and have never been able to view it the same again. It's pretty amazing how much the writers seem to despise their own characters. I'd link to it, but can't find it.
posted by cjorgensen at 9:35 AM on February 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
Jesus Christ, after reading that I'm fairly sure that Chuck Lorre is Darkseid and this show is the goddamned Anti-Life Equation.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 9:37 AM on February 23, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by the phlegmatic king at 9:37 AM on February 23, 2015 [19 favorites]
It's like Ancient Aliens (seven! seasons)
quin
Showing us the truth that the Man hides from us? Besides, the Ancient Aliens "professor"/"expert"/whatever dude's hair alone is worth 10 seasons.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:41 AM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
quin
Showing us the truth that the Man hides from us? Besides, the Ancient Aliens "professor"/"expert"/whatever dude's hair alone is worth 10 seasons.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:41 AM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's in it's twelfth season. It's like Ancient Aliens (seven! seasons); you see it and fundamentally don't understand how it has managed to stay alive this long, when far better and more innovative shows are chopped, often before they get a full season aired
Ancient Aliens is hilarious though and I've never seen an episode I haven't thoroughly enjoyed. I probably wouldn't sit down and watch a full season or anything, but yeah, love it. The, uh, "experts" they interview on that show basically make a ton of hand gestures with their eyes open wide and say stuff like "humans did not yet have the technology to put a big rock on top of another big rock" and "you can see the plain next to the city is big and flat, so we can infer it was a landing pad for spaceships". I'm never really certain if those guys believe it themselves or if it's just a performance.
posted by Hoopo at 9:47 AM on February 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
Ancient Aliens is hilarious though and I've never seen an episode I haven't thoroughly enjoyed. I probably wouldn't sit down and watch a full season or anything, but yeah, love it. The, uh, "experts" they interview on that show basically make a ton of hand gestures with their eyes open wide and say stuff like "humans did not yet have the technology to put a big rock on top of another big rock" and "you can see the plain next to the city is big and flat, so we can infer it was a landing pad for spaceships". I'm never really certain if those guys believe it themselves or if it's just a performance.
posted by Hoopo at 9:47 AM on February 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
I still can't get past the fact that someone capable of writing this piece has voluntarily watched every episode of an aggressively stupid sitcom.
It reminds me of "The Return of the Curse of the Creature's Ghost" from Mr. Show, where Brian Posehn's apathetic teen is wearing a t-shirt with an image from a shitty old movie. When challenged about the shirt, he responds "I'm only wearing it because I hate it."
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:51 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
It reminds me of "The Return of the Curse of the Creature's Ghost" from Mr. Show, where Brian Posehn's apathetic teen is wearing a t-shirt with an image from a shitty old movie. When challenged about the shirt, he responds "I'm only wearing it because I hate it."
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:51 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
Easy, it's cheese-burger television
I dunno, I like cheese-burgers. It strikes me more as like Arby's roast beef sandwich televisioin. It's hugely popular with a vast swath of the population and I can't understand it at all. I don't see the appeal. How is it a business model? How has it been around so long? Who eat here?
posted by maryr at 9:54 AM on February 23, 2015 [14 favorites]
I dunno, I like cheese-burgers. It strikes me more as like Arby's roast beef sandwich televisioin. It's hugely popular with a vast swath of the population and I can't understand it at all. I don't see the appeal. How is it a business model? How has it been around so long? Who eat here?
posted by maryr at 9:54 AM on February 23, 2015 [14 favorites]
I was really hoping for a montage of the cast looking into the camera, clapping, while saying "Congratulations!"
posted by hellojed at 9:55 AM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by hellojed at 9:55 AM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
*quickly googles to make sure Arby's still exists for metaphoric purposes*
posted by maryr at 9:55 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by maryr at 9:55 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
I have a friend who confessed that, on a trip to Las Vegas, he was chosen for a focus group to watch a proposed new sitcom. He said he only laughed once, at a broadly paced bit of slapstick, but not any other time. That show was Two and Half Men. He has apologized for it ever since.
posted by jonp72 at 9:55 AM on February 23, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by jonp72 at 9:55 AM on February 23, 2015 [19 favorites]
Wow, I didn't know the kid pulled a Kirk Cameron.
I suspect if anything would have driven me into the arms of Christian fundamentalism, it would have been starring in Two and a Half Men opposite Charlie Sheen for the entirety of my teenage years.
posted by Naberius at 10:05 AM on February 23, 2015 [49 favorites]
I suspect if anything would have driven me into the arms of Christian fundamentalism, it would have been starring in Two and a Half Men opposite Charlie Sheen for the entirety of my teenage years.
posted by Naberius at 10:05 AM on February 23, 2015 [49 favorites]
Every time I go to the Laundromat - no matter what time day or night - Two and a Half Men is the show playing on compulsory viewing screens. I am convinced that the Lego Movie fake tv show Where Are My Pants? was meant specifically to be a nod to this show. This is partly because I'm always doing laundry when I watch it, so pants are on my mind, and partly because it seems like frantically searching for pants is a weekly trope on the show.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:06 AM on February 23, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:06 AM on February 23, 2015 [20 favorites]
I'm always surprised by people telling me The Big Bang Theory is hilarious. Are they watching some different show than I've seen?
Why this and Two and a Half Men are making a kajillion dollars an episode but Better Off Ted barely received two seasons is proof we can't have nice things.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:08 AM on February 23, 2015 [27 favorites]
Why this and Two and a Half Men are making a kajillion dollars an episode but Better Off Ted barely received two seasons is proof we can't have nice things.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:08 AM on February 23, 2015 [27 favorites]
Metafilter: The Endless Trope of Frantically Searching for Pants
posted by jonp72 at 10:08 AM on February 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by jonp72 at 10:08 AM on February 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
I think my irritation with Ancient Aliens stems from my love of real documentaries. If it was a series that deconstructed the alien mythos, identified human propensities for "seeing aliens" through the lens of cognitive bias or emotional need, and actually went through and looked at vetted evidence for extraterrestrials visiting earth, I'd be riveted.
But I never considered it as pure goofy entertainment. I think I was looking for something that was never meant to be there.
So in that case, I will retract my anger at it. But I still think that twelve seasons for Two and a Half Men is unfair in the light of better sitcoms getting the axe before they ever find their audience.
(I'm praying Jane the Virgin doesn't fall into this trap and gets another season.)
On preview:
but Better Off Ted barely received two seasons is proof we can't have nice things.
Exactly! Better off Ted was genius on so many levels. There was not one character that didn't bring some serious humor to the project. I was so sad when that got bumped. (I still occasionally say "Now smash him with the phone." when I want to end a sentence.)
posted by quin at 10:11 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
But I never considered it as pure goofy entertainment. I think I was looking for something that was never meant to be there.
So in that case, I will retract my anger at it. But I still think that twelve seasons for Two and a Half Men is unfair in the light of better sitcoms getting the axe before they ever find their audience.
(I'm praying Jane the Virgin doesn't fall into this trap and gets another season.)
On preview:
but Better Off Ted barely received two seasons is proof we can't have nice things.
Exactly! Better off Ted was genius on so many levels. There was not one character that didn't bring some serious humor to the project. I was so sad when that got bumped. (I still occasionally say "Now smash him with the phone." when I want to end a sentence.)
posted by quin at 10:11 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
I just remember that when Kutcher came on the show, the local one-time-UPN-affiliate was advertising proudly that they were showing the "original Charlie" episodes, as if they were the comedic equivalent of a Cuban cigar or something.
I've watched episodes because they'd be on after a Big Bang Theory rerun (yeah, I know) and nobody changed the channel; it always struck me as odd that a sitcom could survive on nothing but gay jokes about Alan Cryer and the hope that Charlie Sheen would do something wacky.
posted by graymouser at 10:14 AM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've watched episodes because they'd be on after a Big Bang Theory rerun (yeah, I know) and nobody changed the channel; it always struck me as odd that a sitcom could survive on nothing but gay jokes about Alan Cryer and the hope that Charlie Sheen would do something wacky.
posted by graymouser at 10:14 AM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wow, I didn't know the kid pulled a Kirk Cameron.
I suspect if anything would have driven me into the arms of Christian fundamentalism, it would have been starring in Two and a Half Men opposite Charlie Sheen for the entirety of my teenage years.
If I recall, by many accounts, his religious conversion had a lot to do with the young woman he was seeing, which, if it wasn't a Two and a Half Men plot, sure sounds like one.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:14 AM on February 23, 2015
I suspect if anything would have driven me into the arms of Christian fundamentalism, it would have been starring in Two and a Half Men opposite Charlie Sheen for the entirety of my teenage years.
If I recall, by many accounts, his religious conversion had a lot to do with the young woman he was seeing, which, if it wasn't a Two and a Half Men plot, sure sounds like one.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:14 AM on February 23, 2015
According to Jim ran for eight years, ffs. I assume some shows are kept on the air simply because the showrunner has compromising pix of the network president with a donkey.
posted by the sobsister at 10:17 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by the sobsister at 10:17 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
I still can't get past the fact that someone capable of writing this piece has voluntarily watched every episode of an aggressively stupid sitcom.
Exactly. That is what's truly pathetic about this. American's really do seem to enjoy feeding their hate. If you're that fucked up that you have to compulsively watch a show you hate just because you have to finish things you start, then start taking some piano lessons, start learning to paint or write music, start learning something, but by all means stop watching bad TV.
I really wouldn't worry about the idiotic plot of the final season of this embarrassingly successful show. It's not like it's going to make homophobia worse than it already is in this country.
posted by ReeMonster at 10:19 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
Exactly. That is what's truly pathetic about this. American's really do seem to enjoy feeding their hate. If you're that fucked up that you have to compulsively watch a show you hate just because you have to finish things you start, then start taking some piano lessons, start learning to paint or write music, start learning something, but by all means stop watching bad TV.
I really wouldn't worry about the idiotic plot of the final season of this embarrassingly successful show. It's not like it's going to make homophobia worse than it already is in this country.
posted by ReeMonster at 10:19 AM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
The fact that Chuck Lorre continues to have success is pretty much all you need to know about America in general and Hollywood specifically.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:22 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 10:22 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
This sitcom really is a throwback to the days when most (if not all sitcoms) were simply and unapologetically pure garbage. Most sitcoms have been little more than obnoxious time-wasters with laugh tracks and desperate gimmicks to differentiate one from another: a talking horse here, a bunch of hillbillies in Beverly Hills there. As Cryer himself puts it: "We were doing an old-school sex farce, unapologetic, and I think one of the reasons that it was able to maintain an old-style broadcast audience was because that's what it was. It's a certain amount of luck that you just happen to hit something that really resonates with people and you're able to maintain this for a while." Maybe Americans just don't find farces funny anymore.
As for the puerile homophobia, well, Two and a Half Men was awful, but that's also a throwback. There gets released at least a handful of comedies every year that do fairly well at the box office that are basically two hours of nothing but fart jokes and gay panic, and no one's sitting around at Grantland analyzing them.
Chuck Lorre has built a 20+-year career on throwbacks and sitcoms with non-traditional variations on the nuclear family: Grace Under Fire, Cybill, even Big Bang Theory. If you watch all seasons of pretty much any sitcom you will be dumbfounded at how brain-dead most episodes are. That's what sitcoms were/are for: numbing the neurons after a hard day at work. It's the rare sitcom that jumps out at you as something that breaks the mold. Lorre never intended Two and a Half Men to break any mold other than perhaps the barrier of how long people would basically put up with the same episode on repeat 260+ times.
posted by blucevalo at 10:33 AM on February 23, 2015 [10 favorites]
As for the puerile homophobia, well, Two and a Half Men was awful, but that's also a throwback. There gets released at least a handful of comedies every year that do fairly well at the box office that are basically two hours of nothing but fart jokes and gay panic, and no one's sitting around at Grantland analyzing them.
Chuck Lorre has built a 20+-year career on throwbacks and sitcoms with non-traditional variations on the nuclear family: Grace Under Fire, Cybill, even Big Bang Theory. If you watch all seasons of pretty much any sitcom you will be dumbfounded at how brain-dead most episodes are. That's what sitcoms were/are for: numbing the neurons after a hard day at work. It's the rare sitcom that jumps out at you as something that breaks the mold. Lorre never intended Two and a Half Men to break any mold other than perhaps the barrier of how long people would basically put up with the same episode on repeat 260+ times.
posted by blucevalo at 10:33 AM on February 23, 2015 [10 favorites]
OK, so I have this theory because I have theories about everything.
I used to coach competitive speech for our school's National Forensic League school. Judges typically rank competitors on a scale of 1-5 to 1-8 (depending on how many competitors are in the round - 5 competitors is 1-5, 7 is 1-7, etc.)
One thing I noticed was that really high quality work was polarizing. Like a kid who chose to do "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" or a Shakespeare sequence and did it really well would get ranked #1 by some of the judges and #4 or #5 by some of the judges (often with a "do a piece that isn't so difficult next time" comment from the low-marking judge). On the other hand, really bad work sort of consistently got ranked pretty low - the truly bad rarely got a rank below the bottom.
The mediocre stuff, thus, would tend to float to the top. You can win a round with mostly "2's" and "3's" if the really amazing pieces are getting "1's" and "7's." It was a rare piece that had high literary value and a strong performance coupled together.
Over time, the local speech league coaches and students caught on to this and started selecting pieces that were of negligible literary value because they realized that would increase their students odds of winning. We used to joke that Chicken Soup for the Soul was the Speech League equivalent of the Western Canon. Occasionally, a piece was so undeniably good that it was recognized despite its high literary quality, but for the most part, our winners were solidly "middle of the road."
I think the same thing is true of certain tv shows. In terms of ratings, high quality shows polarize the audience. They take too much focus to enjoy and understand for some people. Really dreadful shows (and I mean really, really dreadful shows) get canceled pretty quickly. Shows that hit right around the middle - they don't take effort to watch and they don't challenge you in any significant way - can last forever. They might not ever be anyone's favorite show, but they're not something you turn off. Heck, maybe you don't even watch it - its just background noise while you prepare dinner or something - but there's so little there you don't get frustrated if you miss something.
So, yeah, ratings favor the mediocre.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:38 AM on February 23, 2015 [61 favorites]
I used to coach competitive speech for our school's National Forensic League school. Judges typically rank competitors on a scale of 1-5 to 1-8 (depending on how many competitors are in the round - 5 competitors is 1-5, 7 is 1-7, etc.)
One thing I noticed was that really high quality work was polarizing. Like a kid who chose to do "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" or a Shakespeare sequence and did it really well would get ranked #1 by some of the judges and #4 or #5 by some of the judges (often with a "do a piece that isn't so difficult next time" comment from the low-marking judge). On the other hand, really bad work sort of consistently got ranked pretty low - the truly bad rarely got a rank below the bottom.
The mediocre stuff, thus, would tend to float to the top. You can win a round with mostly "2's" and "3's" if the really amazing pieces are getting "1's" and "7's." It was a rare piece that had high literary value and a strong performance coupled together.
Over time, the local speech league coaches and students caught on to this and started selecting pieces that were of negligible literary value because they realized that would increase their students odds of winning. We used to joke that Chicken Soup for the Soul was the Speech League equivalent of the Western Canon. Occasionally, a piece was so undeniably good that it was recognized despite its high literary quality, but for the most part, our winners were solidly "middle of the road."
I think the same thing is true of certain tv shows. In terms of ratings, high quality shows polarize the audience. They take too much focus to enjoy and understand for some people. Really dreadful shows (and I mean really, really dreadful shows) get canceled pretty quickly. Shows that hit right around the middle - they don't take effort to watch and they don't challenge you in any significant way - can last forever. They might not ever be anyone's favorite show, but they're not something you turn off. Heck, maybe you don't even watch it - its just background noise while you prepare dinner or something - but there's so little there you don't get frustrated if you miss something.
So, yeah, ratings favor the mediocre.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:38 AM on February 23, 2015 [61 favorites]
I still can't get past the fact that someone capable of writing this piece has voluntarily watched every episode of an aggressively stupid sitcom.
To be fair, she is a (quite good) television/entertainment critic.
But also, to your point, when I'm jealous that that is her career, I am reminded of facts like the fact that she's watched every episode of Two and a Half Men.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:39 AM on February 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
To be fair, she is a (quite good) television/entertainment critic.
But also, to your point, when I'm jealous that that is her career, I am reminded of facts like the fact that she's watched every episode of Two and a Half Men.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:39 AM on February 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
THANK YOU blucevalo.
Two and a Half Men is exactly the kind of show they would lampoon on a more subversive show like Married...with Children every once in a while.. you know how sometimes Al would be flipping through TV channels and you could hear the advertisements and they'd describe some stupid lowest common denominator show and Al would rip on it to the audience's delight.
posted by ReeMonster at 10:40 AM on February 23, 2015
Two and a Half Men is exactly the kind of show they would lampoon on a more subversive show like Married...with Children every once in a while.. you know how sometimes Al would be flipping through TV channels and you could hear the advertisements and they'd describe some stupid lowest common denominator show and Al would rip on it to the audience's delight.
posted by ReeMonster at 10:40 AM on February 23, 2015
I just want to point out that the FPP article decrying the crappy homophobic humor is published in a website from ESPN, whose core brand appeal is mainstream (overwhelmingly hetero, 94% male) America.
Think about that
posted by I am the Walrus at 10:41 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Think about that
posted by I am the Walrus at 10:41 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Two and a Half Men was really a Black Mirror episode in the end
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:48 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:48 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
I expected to see this Vox teardown and/or this analysis from comedy writer Gil Ozeri, and the "batshitinsane" tag (after reading the latter piece the other day, in fact I came here looking for it just because I expected it to have that tag already). But it's not a show that ever appealed to me, in conceit or execution, so I chose not to post it myself.
This comment from qcubed about Big Bang Theory, on the other hand, is exactly how I feel about that show. I think very early on the show did sort of try to write them as humans who just happened to be nerds, with whatever quirks fit into that, but it quickly slipped into mean-spiritedness, and decided that was where it wanted to be instead. On the plus side they made Penny more than just a stupid blonde "actress" with no hope of a career, but on the minus side … everything else. I quit watching and haven't gone back.
posted by fedward at 10:52 AM on February 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
This comment from qcubed about Big Bang Theory, on the other hand, is exactly how I feel about that show. I think very early on the show did sort of try to write them as humans who just happened to be nerds, with whatever quirks fit into that, but it quickly slipped into mean-spiritedness, and decided that was where it wanted to be instead. On the plus side they made Penny more than just a stupid blonde "actress" with no hope of a career, but on the minus side … everything else. I quit watching and haven't gone back.
posted by fedward at 10:52 AM on February 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
I just want to point out that the FPP article decrying the crappy homophobic humor is published in a website from ESPN, whose core brand appeal is mainstream (overwhelmingly hetero, 94% male) America.
Think about that
I think it's a bit misleading to reduce the multi-platform media empire that is ESPN solely to the demographics of the visitors to ESPN.com.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:58 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Think about that
I think it's a bit misleading to reduce the multi-platform media empire that is ESPN solely to the demographics of the visitors to ESPN.com.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:58 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Although I will admit that I'd be very surprised if the overall audience of ESPN's platforms wasn't very highly male. I just think that a simple, Grantland-vs.-the-rest-of-ESPN isn't really a clear cut line, especially given how much of Grantland is about sports.)
posted by Going To Maine at 11:02 AM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 11:02 AM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
FWIW on the Ancient Aliens thing, I took acid a few years ago and went to a lecture by the crazy haired professor guy (in a hotel lobby) and he copped to it all being for show.
One of the most fun nights I've ever had, tbh.
posted by GreyboxHero at 11:05 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
One of the most fun nights I've ever had, tbh.
posted by GreyboxHero at 11:05 AM on February 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
Think about that
Ok. I did. I have no idea what I'm supposed to conclude.
posted by josher71 at 11:08 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ok. I did. I have no idea what I'm supposed to conclude.
posted by josher71 at 11:08 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
This sitcom really is a throwback to the days when most (if not all sitcoms) were simply and unapologetically pure garbage. Most sitcoms have been little more than obnoxious time-wasters with laugh tracks and desperate gimmicks to differentiate one from another: a talking horse here, a bunch of hillbillies in Beverly Hills there.
Just so. If All in the Family didn't permanently raise the bar for sitcoms, then your favorite one had no chance. No, not even that one. Or that one. Definitely not that one--yeah, I know the episode you're thinking of, but sorry, that's just cherry-picking.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:12 AM on February 23, 2015
Just so. If All in the Family didn't permanently raise the bar for sitcoms, then your favorite one had no chance. No, not even that one. Or that one. Definitely not that one--yeah, I know the episode you're thinking of, but sorry, that's just cherry-picking.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:12 AM on February 23, 2015
My uncle turned on an episode of The Simpsons once. It happened to be the scene where Homer steals Barts money to buy beer. He turned it off in disgust and has never seen another second of the show.
Loves his 2 1/2 Men, though.
posted by dirigibleman at 11:16 AM on February 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
Loves his 2 1/2 Men, though.
posted by dirigibleman at 11:16 AM on February 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
he copped to it all being for show
A disappointing relief, if there is such a thing.
Anyways I still think coming up with the kind of crackpot theories these guys do is pretty creative and makes for an entertaining watch.
posted by Hoopo at 11:25 AM on February 23, 2015
A disappointing relief, if there is such a thing.
Anyways I still think coming up with the kind of crackpot theories these guys do is pretty creative and makes for an entertaining watch.
posted by Hoopo at 11:25 AM on February 23, 2015
So here's the Hollywood inside-baseball story I want to read, probably as an ongoing monthly column: Chuck Lorre's Next Project. I don't think the guy's going to retire; he seems to be a master at producing some kind of entertainment, and based on the final show I'll bet he'd love to have more chances to attack people he feels slighted by. And there are the issues facing people who are contemplating working with his: you're probably going to make a bunch of money, but there's All That Drama and do you want to be known for making the shittiest shit?
It could be very interesting.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:31 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
It could be very interesting.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:31 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think the expectation, with a sitcom like this, or like Everybody Loves Raymond, is that you can turn it on and basically ignore it for good stretches of time. Many people who watch TV these days are multitasking, either being on their phones or computers or doing other things, so a predictable cadence that doesn't require any real attention span is more important to success than anything else.
posted by xingcat at 11:32 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 11:32 AM on February 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
Never turning it on and basically ignoring it forever works too.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:56 AM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:56 AM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
Hoopo - to clarify a bit, his stance was more like:
"Well, I'm not saying it's aliens, because man it's probably not. I can't say FOR SURE that it's not, so we'll say what the viewers want...which is aliens.
Seriously thought it's not aliens"
One of my favorite exchanges from the whole thing, and led to (what I imagine) was one of the greatest back and forth bits of the night. When he said this I started laughing hysterically, and he did the "man I'll take whatever that guy had!" joke...I looked up all wild eyed and said:
"ACID!"
For a second I thought Georgio had a full-circle moment realizing what his own show is like.
/ancientaliens
posted by GreyboxHero at 11:59 AM on February 23, 2015 [14 favorites]
"Well, I'm not saying it's aliens, because man it's probably not. I can't say FOR SURE that it's not, so we'll say what the viewers want...which is aliens.
Seriously thought it's not aliens"
One of my favorite exchanges from the whole thing, and led to (what I imagine) was one of the greatest back and forth bits of the night. When he said this I started laughing hysterically, and he did the "man I'll take whatever that guy had!" joke...I looked up all wild eyed and said:
"ACID!"
For a second I thought Georgio had a full-circle moment realizing what his own show is like.
/ancientaliens
posted by GreyboxHero at 11:59 AM on February 23, 2015 [14 favorites]
I have seen little bits of the show. Pretty sure this is the episode I keep seeing.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:10 PM on February 23, 2015
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:10 PM on February 23, 2015
I'm now in the position of doing something I never expected to be doing: defending and explaining Two-and-a-Half Men, but I get the feeling, unlike most of the commentators here, that I'm actually somewhat qualified to do so because I've actually seen the show.
I need to preface this by saying it's not my choice of entertainment--it was never anything I decided I needed to watch--but if you spend enough time with relatives over a certain age, it tends to be one of those shows you end up becoming very familiar. Now I'm not claiming to have seen every episode, in fact I know I haven't, but I have seen most of the Sheen ones, a small chunk of the early Kutcher ones and a handful of his later ones. And of course I deliberately tuned into the last episode because I knew it was going to be a topic of conversation amongst those same relatives, so I'd better know what happened, which was a good thing too, because as soon as it was over, the phone rang and there was a relative on the other end wanting to talk about it, and wanting an explanation of exactly who was sitting in the director's chair at the end.
So given that, here's my take on why the show was popular...
First, it was about the average, downtrodden person who just can't catch a break, who can't beat the system and who always winds up the loser. So in essence it was about you and me, and every elderly relative you and I have.
The middle-class (chiropractor) Jon Cryer character, Allen, started out as the essential good guy. He did everything right. He worked hard, he loved his wife, he cared for his kid, he tried to be a good son, etc. but none of that was enough. He lost his wife (who also took his house and money), his son was an idiot, his mother was horrible, his career ended up in shambles. I've read an interview (I think with Lorre, although it might have been with Cryer) that described Allen as a Job archetype.
He ends up being taken in by his brother, Charlie, who is everything he isn't: a wealthy, talented, asshat awash in women, alcohol and drugs. (The same interview envisioned Charlie as Dionysus.) He is the guy that no matter how badly he screws up, he winds up smelling like roses. So in other words, he is Hollywood, and Wall Street/Bay Street, every fat cat that causes you (and your relatives) to say, "come the revolution, he's first against the wall."
So in essence they are watching reflections of their own lives played out on the large scale and for laughs. It's familiar to them. It's a reality they understand (having your taxes audited, having to convince your kid to do a book report even though he hates reading and writing and school, facing middle age without having your life in the order you expected) and the perceived reality they believe is out there (the rich get away with everything).
Added to that mix are three pretty good character actresses playing supporting characters, each with a different purpose. Berta the maid represents the blue collar class, but she is relatively at ease with her lot in life, giving her the ability to be both scornful of Charlie, but also able to appreciate him as a real-life soap opera. Her role also involves pointing out Allen's many, many failings over and over again, driving home that he's a sad sack. The cold, heartless and impeccably-dressed mother, a successful and rich realtor has a sharp tongue equaling Berta's so the two of them act as foils against each other. (On a side note, physically they were almost exact opposites, despite both being redheds and very imposing presences, which added another element to their relationship dynamic.) Being more successful, the mother is always quick to point out how much of a failure her son is (not being a real medical doctor), but she is also able to condemn the other son for being such a horrible womanizer (despite the fact she was no prude herself) so in a way she acts as a bit of a balance and an audience stand-in for those people who want to criticize both main characters. The third main female supporting character, Rose, the crazy, stalker neighbour, is the one random element that Charlie cannot control. She represents the only true threat to his being able to "win" at life. Now she may not be a huge threat, but she's a constant threat, so even though the audience doesn't want to cheer for a crazy stalker, she's nice and sweet (when not crazy) and there is an investment in wanting to see Charlie get what he deserves.
Okay, that's the foundation and the initial premise. In the beginning, it pretty much works. As the seasons go on, however, initial characterizations start to slide. Allen's in particular ends up going down a very strange rabbit hole where he becomes a womanizing moocher with multiple ex-wives and girlfriends, but that's a fate that is common to long running shows.
The other attraction of the show is that it both titillates and repulses the audience with talk of sex, drugs, binge drinking and other forbidden behaviours. Especially for a more mature or conservative audience who isn't used to hearing about some these topics or used to seeing them treated so casually or as sources of humour, it served as a bit of a bawdy eye-opener, especially when played against Sheen's (supposed) real-life antics. And while this type of behaviour is represented, it is never seen as the right thing to do, so those who want to moralize about how damaging it is, can go ahead and do so.
Now as for the issue that seems to have caused the show to become a topic of discussion today: its approach to homosexuality.
Yes, it was troublesome right from the beginning. Originally Allen's wife wanted a divorce because she realized she had become a lesbian (although she later went back to dating men). And Allen was always viewed by everybody in the show as being not manly enough/too sissy/too gay because he could talk about floral arrangements for weddings or insisted on using coasters (shades of Felix Unger and the Odd Couple, which is a direct precursor to this show).
As much as the show mocked less-than-respectful gay stereotypes, every once in a while it could throw the audience a curve. In one episode, one of Charlie's sexy old girlfriends comes back after transitioning into a man (Chris O'Donnell) and after the initial shock, everybody ends up accepting the character (sorry don't remember the character's name). In another plotline, the mother ends up "adopting" a gay couple and their son because she is so disappointed in her own brood, and the gay couple is much more of what she envisioned her heirs to be--successful, happy, etc. Yes, I know these are also stereotypes, at least they're mildly on the "positive" side of the ledger.
After Sheen's departure, the show introduced a female character (again I don't recall the name) who is said to be Charlie's illegitimate daughter. She's portrayed as being a lesbian version of Charlie. I can't say I've seen enough of these episodes to know how they treat the character or how she develops.
I've only seen the odd episode of the Allen and Walden marriage and adoption arc and yes, they were as stupid as they sound.
So are there troublesome elements to the show? Definitely. Was the comedy broadly played? Absolutely. Was it poorly written? No. It was far from genius level, but for what it was, it was competent and workmanlike. Some of the actors (especially the supporting players) were very good and could usually deliver a sharp line or two.
Seriously, when I first started hearing a certain relative talk about the show, I really was baffled. I just couldn't picture this particular person watching that show. But after some (actually more than I care to count) episodes, I was able to take a critical approach to it, and could understand how it worked and why it worked. It was successful for a reason, and rather than just dismissing it outright because "people/conservatives/seniors/etc. are stupid/homophobic/etc." I think people who are quick to shout it down should at least be willing to spend some time taking a look at it. I think, as with any type of popular entertainment, we should be able to distinguish the difference between personal enjoyment of something and understanding why that particular movie/show/book earned the spot it did in the general culture.
(And for the record, yes I was a fan of Better off Ted, and personally would have liked to see that show get another season, but I can also understand why it failed to find an audience.)
posted by sardonyx at 12:37 PM on February 23, 2015 [26 favorites]
I need to preface this by saying it's not my choice of entertainment--it was never anything I decided I needed to watch--but if you spend enough time with relatives over a certain age, it tends to be one of those shows you end up becoming very familiar. Now I'm not claiming to have seen every episode, in fact I know I haven't, but I have seen most of the Sheen ones, a small chunk of the early Kutcher ones and a handful of his later ones. And of course I deliberately tuned into the last episode because I knew it was going to be a topic of conversation amongst those same relatives, so I'd better know what happened, which was a good thing too, because as soon as it was over, the phone rang and there was a relative on the other end wanting to talk about it, and wanting an explanation of exactly who was sitting in the director's chair at the end.
So given that, here's my take on why the show was popular...
First, it was about the average, downtrodden person who just can't catch a break, who can't beat the system and who always winds up the loser. So in essence it was about you and me, and every elderly relative you and I have.
The middle-class (chiropractor) Jon Cryer character, Allen, started out as the essential good guy. He did everything right. He worked hard, he loved his wife, he cared for his kid, he tried to be a good son, etc. but none of that was enough. He lost his wife (who also took his house and money), his son was an idiot, his mother was horrible, his career ended up in shambles. I've read an interview (I think with Lorre, although it might have been with Cryer) that described Allen as a Job archetype.
He ends up being taken in by his brother, Charlie, who is everything he isn't: a wealthy, talented, asshat awash in women, alcohol and drugs. (The same interview envisioned Charlie as Dionysus.) He is the guy that no matter how badly he screws up, he winds up smelling like roses. So in other words, he is Hollywood, and Wall Street/Bay Street, every fat cat that causes you (and your relatives) to say, "come the revolution, he's first against the wall."
So in essence they are watching reflections of their own lives played out on the large scale and for laughs. It's familiar to them. It's a reality they understand (having your taxes audited, having to convince your kid to do a book report even though he hates reading and writing and school, facing middle age without having your life in the order you expected) and the perceived reality they believe is out there (the rich get away with everything).
Added to that mix are three pretty good character actresses playing supporting characters, each with a different purpose. Berta the maid represents the blue collar class, but she is relatively at ease with her lot in life, giving her the ability to be both scornful of Charlie, but also able to appreciate him as a real-life soap opera. Her role also involves pointing out Allen's many, many failings over and over again, driving home that he's a sad sack. The cold, heartless and impeccably-dressed mother, a successful and rich realtor has a sharp tongue equaling Berta's so the two of them act as foils against each other. (On a side note, physically they were almost exact opposites, despite both being redheds and very imposing presences, which added another element to their relationship dynamic.) Being more successful, the mother is always quick to point out how much of a failure her son is (not being a real medical doctor), but she is also able to condemn the other son for being such a horrible womanizer (despite the fact she was no prude herself) so in a way she acts as a bit of a balance and an audience stand-in for those people who want to criticize both main characters. The third main female supporting character, Rose, the crazy, stalker neighbour, is the one random element that Charlie cannot control. She represents the only true threat to his being able to "win" at life. Now she may not be a huge threat, but she's a constant threat, so even though the audience doesn't want to cheer for a crazy stalker, she's nice and sweet (when not crazy) and there is an investment in wanting to see Charlie get what he deserves.
Okay, that's the foundation and the initial premise. In the beginning, it pretty much works. As the seasons go on, however, initial characterizations start to slide. Allen's in particular ends up going down a very strange rabbit hole where he becomes a womanizing moocher with multiple ex-wives and girlfriends, but that's a fate that is common to long running shows.
The other attraction of the show is that it both titillates and repulses the audience with talk of sex, drugs, binge drinking and other forbidden behaviours. Especially for a more mature or conservative audience who isn't used to hearing about some these topics or used to seeing them treated so casually or as sources of humour, it served as a bit of a bawdy eye-opener, especially when played against Sheen's (supposed) real-life antics. And while this type of behaviour is represented, it is never seen as the right thing to do, so those who want to moralize about how damaging it is, can go ahead and do so.
Now as for the issue that seems to have caused the show to become a topic of discussion today: its approach to homosexuality.
Yes, it was troublesome right from the beginning. Originally Allen's wife wanted a divorce because she realized she had become a lesbian (although she later went back to dating men). And Allen was always viewed by everybody in the show as being not manly enough/too sissy/too gay because he could talk about floral arrangements for weddings or insisted on using coasters (shades of Felix Unger and the Odd Couple, which is a direct precursor to this show).
As much as the show mocked less-than-respectful gay stereotypes, every once in a while it could throw the audience a curve. In one episode, one of Charlie's sexy old girlfriends comes back after transitioning into a man (Chris O'Donnell) and after the initial shock, everybody ends up accepting the character (sorry don't remember the character's name). In another plotline, the mother ends up "adopting" a gay couple and their son because she is so disappointed in her own brood, and the gay couple is much more of what she envisioned her heirs to be--successful, happy, etc. Yes, I know these are also stereotypes, at least they're mildly on the "positive" side of the ledger.
After Sheen's departure, the show introduced a female character (again I don't recall the name) who is said to be Charlie's illegitimate daughter. She's portrayed as being a lesbian version of Charlie. I can't say I've seen enough of these episodes to know how they treat the character or how she develops.
I've only seen the odd episode of the Allen and Walden marriage and adoption arc and yes, they were as stupid as they sound.
So are there troublesome elements to the show? Definitely. Was the comedy broadly played? Absolutely. Was it poorly written? No. It was far from genius level, but for what it was, it was competent and workmanlike. Some of the actors (especially the supporting players) were very good and could usually deliver a sharp line or two.
Seriously, when I first started hearing a certain relative talk about the show, I really was baffled. I just couldn't picture this particular person watching that show. But after some (actually more than I care to count) episodes, I was able to take a critical approach to it, and could understand how it worked and why it worked. It was successful for a reason, and rather than just dismissing it outright because "people/conservatives/seniors/etc. are stupid/homophobic/etc." I think people who are quick to shout it down should at least be willing to spend some time taking a look at it. I think, as with any type of popular entertainment, we should be able to distinguish the difference between personal enjoyment of something and understanding why that particular movie/show/book earned the spot it did in the general culture.
(And for the record, yes I was a fan of Better off Ted, and personally would have liked to see that show get another season, but I can also understand why it failed to find an audience.)
posted by sardonyx at 12:37 PM on February 23, 2015 [26 favorites]
As far as Big Bang Theory, I don't understand the love for it either. I never got the sense that we were supposed to be laughing with the nerds on screen […]
It was much smarter when it first started. It was also a lot more honest (or at least felt that way).
You had a dysfunctional Sheldon who had realistic issues relating to people and was seemingly incapable of a normal romantic relationship. He was also so smart he made other smart people feel dumb. He was someone you could relate to because everyone knows someone like that or you knew how it felt to be him, because you work a job where you are often the smartest people on a particular topic. You had Leonard who was Sheldon's friend and translator of reality. Leonard wanted the unattainable and while successful was insecure and a nice guy. And you had Howard as the only guy in the group who managed to have a career, intelligence, and female companionship. And you had Raj which I never really understood what his role was other than token international higher education guy.
Most of the characters actually got development, and Bernadette was allowed to be as smart as any of the men and to be just as dysfunctional. She wasn't there to be the person who made their lovable guys understand the world and the world to understand the lovable guys. She was just as clueless as the rest of them and just as likely to screw something up.
The only real failing of the show was Penny played little more than a tight fitting waitress uniform, but even that was fine by me, since her whole point of being on the show was to be something the guys would have no chance of getting with and to some extent she was also a stand-in for the viewer. She was a Watson. The smart guys could explain things to her and the audience came along for the ride. Would development be nice? I guess, but it's not like they made her into a character worth striving to be.
Then it got mean. No one respects any of the smart people. They are incapable of completing even minor tasks without incident. They are now occasionally bullied (both physically and emotionally) and they are incapable of coping or dealing with it. each of the characters has a romantic relationship to varying success, but somehow we're supposed to feel for these people.
Mostly I find the show is incapable of growth and while it's nice to see that after 9 years Sheldon is able to be something other than an OCD self-centered shitheel that's not enough to keep me watching. I guess I was saddened by the fact that you had scientists and educators as the heros of a show for once, with the characters seeming somewhat realistic, and then the show became not about their struggles, but about people laughing at their foibles. They went from delivering intelligent punchlines to being the punchline.
Also, Penny's hair looks horrible with that haircut.
posted by cjorgensen at 12:41 PM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
It was much smarter when it first started. It was also a lot more honest (or at least felt that way).
You had a dysfunctional Sheldon who had realistic issues relating to people and was seemingly incapable of a normal romantic relationship. He was also so smart he made other smart people feel dumb. He was someone you could relate to because everyone knows someone like that or you knew how it felt to be him, because you work a job where you are often the smartest people on a particular topic. You had Leonard who was Sheldon's friend and translator of reality. Leonard wanted the unattainable and while successful was insecure and a nice guy. And you had Howard as the only guy in the group who managed to have a career, intelligence, and female companionship. And you had Raj which I never really understood what his role was other than token international higher education guy.
Most of the characters actually got development, and Bernadette was allowed to be as smart as any of the men and to be just as dysfunctional. She wasn't there to be the person who made their lovable guys understand the world and the world to understand the lovable guys. She was just as clueless as the rest of them and just as likely to screw something up.
The only real failing of the show was Penny played little more than a tight fitting waitress uniform, but even that was fine by me, since her whole point of being on the show was to be something the guys would have no chance of getting with and to some extent she was also a stand-in for the viewer. She was a Watson. The smart guys could explain things to her and the audience came along for the ride. Would development be nice? I guess, but it's not like they made her into a character worth striving to be.
Then it got mean. No one respects any of the smart people. They are incapable of completing even minor tasks without incident. They are now occasionally bullied (both physically and emotionally) and they are incapable of coping or dealing with it. each of the characters has a romantic relationship to varying success, but somehow we're supposed to feel for these people.
Mostly I find the show is incapable of growth and while it's nice to see that after 9 years Sheldon is able to be something other than an OCD self-centered shitheel that's not enough to keep me watching. I guess I was saddened by the fact that you had scientists and educators as the heros of a show for once, with the characters seeming somewhat realistic, and then the show became not about their struggles, but about people laughing at their foibles. They went from delivering intelligent punchlines to being the punchline.
Also, Penny's hair looks horrible with that haircut.
posted by cjorgensen at 12:41 PM on February 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
Worth noting:
In the first couple seasons of Two and a Half Men, it was described by many as "Chuck Lorre's Revenge", based partly on some of his own statements. After building his career working on female-starring sitcoms Roseanne, Cybill and Grace Under Fire without owning a piece of the show and ultimately getting fired by who he would inevitably call "the bitch in charge", 2½M was his chance to do a totally man-centered show where all the women were either evil, insane or just disposable.
Also, the whole "mismatched roommates" format for a sitcom (with the ½Man addition of a kid who was on the cusp of being too-old-to-be-cute just to show minimal originality) dates back to The Odd Couple, with Jon Cryer as the-Felix-type and Charlie Sheen as the-Oscar-type, especially ironic since the same night as the 2½M finale, CBS debuted a new remake of... (wait for it)... The Odd Couple. And overnight ratings show that the premiere of the Odds attracted as large an audience as the end of the Men (but both did worse than the regular episode of The Big Bang theory preceding them both).
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:50 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
In the first couple seasons of Two and a Half Men, it was described by many as "Chuck Lorre's Revenge", based partly on some of his own statements. After building his career working on female-starring sitcoms Roseanne, Cybill and Grace Under Fire without owning a piece of the show and ultimately getting fired by who he would inevitably call "the bitch in charge", 2½M was his chance to do a totally man-centered show where all the women were either evil, insane or just disposable.
Also, the whole "mismatched roommates" format for a sitcom (with the ½Man addition of a kid who was on the cusp of being too-old-to-be-cute just to show minimal originality) dates back to The Odd Couple, with Jon Cryer as the-Felix-type and Charlie Sheen as the-Oscar-type, especially ironic since the same night as the 2½M finale, CBS debuted a new remake of... (wait for it)... The Odd Couple. And overnight ratings show that the premiere of the Odds attracted as large an audience as the end of the Men (but both did worse than the regular episode of The Big Bang theory preceding them both).
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:50 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Big Bang Theory had a season or two of phoning it in, but it has never struck me as particularly mean-spirited; rather, it's maintained a certain level of endearment -- so much so that I am periodically amazed Chuck Lorre is responsible for it.
posted by DrAstroZoom at 12:54 PM on February 23, 2015
posted by DrAstroZoom at 12:54 PM on February 23, 2015
Why this and Two and a Half Men are making a kajillion dollars an episode but Better Off Ted barely received two seasons is proof we can't have nice things.
Better Off Ted was cancelled because nobody wanted to come and try and relax by being reminded of how much their job sucks.
posted by srboisvert at 1:00 PM on February 23, 2015
Better Off Ted was cancelled because nobody wanted to come and try and relax by being reminded of how much their job sucks.
posted by srboisvert at 1:00 PM on February 23, 2015
Was it poorly written? No. It was far from genius level, but for what it was, it was competent and workmanlike
Further support for my "ratings favor the mediocre" theory.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:04 PM on February 23, 2015
Further support for my "ratings favor the mediocre" theory.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:04 PM on February 23, 2015
BBT is baffling to me. One minute it's effing brilliant ("The Relationship Agreement"; "Oh wait, he's stuck in an infinite loop, let me fix that!"), and I'm literally ROTFL. The next minute it's the stupidest thing I've ever seen in my entire life (Wolowitz making lame PU lines, Raj and his extremely painful, cringeworthy Indian stereotypes).
Extremely awkward change in Penny's character, making her newfound professional success unbelievable. With the death of Howard's mother and Carole Ann Susi, I hope they can come up with some funny, tenderhearted comedy gold.
posted by Melismata at 1:05 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Extremely awkward change in Penny's character, making her newfound professional success unbelievable. With the death of Howard's mother and Carole Ann Susi, I hope they can come up with some funny, tenderhearted comedy gold.
posted by Melismata at 1:05 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I suspect the reason why many people are conflicted about 2 1/2 Men's popularity is because they can't remember The Beverly Hillbillies. Anyhow, you can say "that figures" without being able to explain why.
Put it this way: I really liked Buddy Ebsen in almost all of his movie roles. Same with Charlie Sheen. It's that sort of thing that let's you stand so close to the looking glass you don't realize when you pass over to the other side.
posted by mule98J at 1:27 PM on February 23, 2015
Put it this way: I really liked Buddy Ebsen in almost all of his movie roles. Same with Charlie Sheen. It's that sort of thing that let's you stand so close to the looking glass you don't realize when you pass over to the other side.
posted by mule98J at 1:27 PM on February 23, 2015
The proper title should have been Himbos in Sewerland just to put it all in perspective...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 2:14 PM on February 23, 2015
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 2:14 PM on February 23, 2015
This sitcom really is a throwback to the days when most (if not all sitcoms) were simply and unapologetically pure garbage. Most sitcoms have been little more than obnoxious time-wasters with laugh tracks and desperate gimmicks to differentiate one from another: a talking horse here, a bunch of hillbillies in Beverly Hills there.
That's a really good point, and sort of related to that, I think there are three major categories of sitcoms on now. There are the sitcoms like Two and a Half Men and the Big Bang Theory and Mike and Molly that are there to be mediocre and unchallenging. They don't require a lot of attention, and they're very much in the classic sitcom mold in terms of subject matter and execution. They have less cultural capital than you would expect given their ratings, but they have massive ratings.
Then there's the sitcoms that are mostly like the first category, they're just...actually good. They're elevated by better writing, or better acting, or by taking a few interesting risks. I'd put Modern Family, The Office, and New Girl in this tier. These shows get some critical acclaim and awards show attention, so they have a decent amount of cultural capital.
It's the third category that's changed the cultural conversation about sitcoms, I think. This category is for the sitcoms that choose to veer away from the expected sitcom tropes somehow, whether that's in format, style, or content. This is the category where Community goes cheerfully off the wall with genre pastiches, where The Mindy Project turns the sitcom into a seasons-long romcom, where 30 Rock and Brooklyn 9-9 and Parks and Rec go all in with the idea of a workplace sitcom, where Arrested Development builds incredibly long-running gags. This is the category with an outsized amount of cultural capital compared to the ratings. Critics and/or a small devoted fanbase love these sitcoms, while their ratings struggle.
All the sitcoms of the 90s and 00s blend together in a more or less forgettable mass for me, outside of the stuff that's entered the sitcom "canon" like Friends, so I'm wondering if this is new. I don't recall anything achieving the sort of cult status that Community has, or the sort of critical devotion of Arrested Development. What changed? Has there been a real shift in seeing the sitcom as less of a disposable, "background watching" type of TV experience?
posted by yasaman at 2:20 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's a really good point, and sort of related to that, I think there are three major categories of sitcoms on now. There are the sitcoms like Two and a Half Men and the Big Bang Theory and Mike and Molly that are there to be mediocre and unchallenging. They don't require a lot of attention, and they're very much in the classic sitcom mold in terms of subject matter and execution. They have less cultural capital than you would expect given their ratings, but they have massive ratings.
Then there's the sitcoms that are mostly like the first category, they're just...actually good. They're elevated by better writing, or better acting, or by taking a few interesting risks. I'd put Modern Family, The Office, and New Girl in this tier. These shows get some critical acclaim and awards show attention, so they have a decent amount of cultural capital.
It's the third category that's changed the cultural conversation about sitcoms, I think. This category is for the sitcoms that choose to veer away from the expected sitcom tropes somehow, whether that's in format, style, or content. This is the category where Community goes cheerfully off the wall with genre pastiches, where The Mindy Project turns the sitcom into a seasons-long romcom, where 30 Rock and Brooklyn 9-9 and Parks and Rec go all in with the idea of a workplace sitcom, where Arrested Development builds incredibly long-running gags. This is the category with an outsized amount of cultural capital compared to the ratings. Critics and/or a small devoted fanbase love these sitcoms, while their ratings struggle.
All the sitcoms of the 90s and 00s blend together in a more or less forgettable mass for me, outside of the stuff that's entered the sitcom "canon" like Friends, so I'm wondering if this is new. I don't recall anything achieving the sort of cult status that Community has, or the sort of critical devotion of Arrested Development. What changed? Has there been a real shift in seeing the sitcom as less of a disposable, "background watching" type of TV experience?
posted by yasaman at 2:20 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think [Chuck Lorre]'s going to retire; he seems to be a master at producing some kind of entertainment, and based on the final show I'll bet he'd love to have more chances to attack people he feels slighted by.
This show was already done. It was called Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip
So, so many Aaron Sorkin jokes to make here
posted by aureliobuendia at 2:26 PM on February 23, 2015
This show was already done. It was called Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip
So, so many Aaron Sorkin jokes to make here
posted by aureliobuendia at 2:26 PM on February 23, 2015
where The Mindy Project turns the sitcom into a seasons-long romcom
Can you clarify this? I don't watch TMP, but my impression has always been that most sitcoms are rom-coms (or at least, full of folks dating and trying to make relationships work).
posted by Going To Maine at 2:31 PM on February 23, 2015
Can you clarify this? I don't watch TMP, but my impression has always been that most sitcoms are rom-coms (or at least, full of folks dating and trying to make relationships work).
posted by Going To Maine at 2:31 PM on February 23, 2015
Hahahaha incredible. I had only seen a few episodes of the show in it's original incarnation and it was beyond bad then. What made it interesting to me is how popular and beloved it was by so many people. I noticed it was still on the other day browsing icefilms, and I was half tempted to see what it was like now. Any show that goes on for too long starts to get really bizarre, especially bad ones that cannot be left to die, terminally ill from their own popularity but never left to it's natural death. The second and last seasons of the office were some of my favourites because it became so abstract. It wasn't about the office anymore, it was just a set piece for absurdest comedy using comical distillations of the cast.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:33 PM on February 23, 2015
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:33 PM on February 23, 2015
"Sheen himself never shows up,[foonote]Lorre tried to get him involved, at least.[/footnote] but a look-alike does (shot only from behind) and, suddenly, we see a piano, absurdly delivered by a helicopter, fall down and crush him to death. The camera pans back to break the fourth wall and reveal a smirking Lorre in a director’s chair. He sneers,“Winning,” before he, too, is crushed by a piano. That’s it. That is the impossibly lame way the show ended after 12 seasons, once again offering something so ridiculous it defies scrutiny."
How is that incredibly lame? That's far more than I would expect for the finale of such a show. That ending sounds like a "fuck you" to the audience -- I can't help but love that.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:37 PM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
How is that incredibly lame? That's far more than I would expect for the finale of such a show. That ending sounds like a "fuck you" to the audience -- I can't help but love that.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:37 PM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think The Mindy Project is just more explicitly a romcom than the other romance-adjacent sitcoms out there. It's very self-consciously using romcom tropes, and it's actually having its romance progress and develop in a way where the romance is the primary driver of the plot. A lot of other sitcoms seem to linger in the will they/won't they stage for seasons at a time, or they feature an already established romantic couple. This may just be because I recently marathoned pretty much the whole thing, but when you watch it all at once, it feels like an actual romantic comedy movie (or three separate movies, one for each season).
And this may be kind of tautological or reductive, but I'd say romcom is The Mindy Project's genre in a way that isn't true of many other sitcoms. Most of the other sitcoms that have had a prominent romance plot or subplot are still something else. Like, if asked to assign a genre to Friends or Scrubs or The Office, you wouldn't jump to "romcom" first, despite all of those shows having prominent romantic subplots. I'd put the sadly short-lived Selfie in the same category of romcom sitcom.
posted by yasaman at 2:49 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
And this may be kind of tautological or reductive, but I'd say romcom is The Mindy Project's genre in a way that isn't true of many other sitcoms. Most of the other sitcoms that have had a prominent romance plot or subplot are still something else. Like, if asked to assign a genre to Friends or Scrubs or The Office, you wouldn't jump to "romcom" first, despite all of those shows having prominent romantic subplots. I'd put the sadly short-lived Selfie in the same category of romcom sitcom.
posted by yasaman at 2:49 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah I'm honestly so in love with the double piano drop it's not even funny.
posted by GreyboxHero at 3:11 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by GreyboxHero at 3:11 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I always thought that Sheen's character, Charlie Harper, was just a grown-up Ferris Bueller...a sociopath who routinely uses people for his own pleasure and ego but only gets rewarded for it.
posted by rocket88 at 3:43 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rocket88 at 3:43 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
The only way to end this was to have Jon Cryer get hit in the head, then wake up in bed next to Molly Ringwald.
And then the piano.
posted by delfin at 3:55 PM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
And then the piano.
posted by delfin at 3:55 PM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
I always thought that Sheen's character, Charlie Harper, was just a grown-up Ferris Bueller...a sociopath who routinely uses people for his own pleasure and ego but only gets rewarded for it.
posted by rocket88 at 3:43 PM on February 23
AHEM!
I think you need to go back and re-watch Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Ferris is anything but a sociopath, his supra-popularity is because he has helped almost everyone out of a bind at some point.
posted by Vindaloo at 5:14 PM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by rocket88 at 3:43 PM on February 23
AHEM!
I think you need to go back and re-watch Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Ferris is anything but a sociopath, his supra-popularity is because he has helped almost everyone out of a bind at some point.
posted by Vindaloo at 5:14 PM on February 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
Vindaloo: I think you need to go back and re-watch Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Ferris is anything but a sociopath, his supra-popularity is because he has helped almost everyone out of a bind at some point.
That may be so, but i've never - on any of my many watches of it - been able to shake the sensation that Ferris sees people as things. (YMMV, of course.)
posted by pseudonymph at 8:09 PM on February 23, 2015
That may be so, but i've never - on any of my many watches of it - been able to shake the sensation that Ferris sees people as things. (YMMV, of course.)
posted by pseudonymph at 8:09 PM on February 23, 2015
As a genuine FU to its own audience, the finale seemed fairly interesting. I feel like there's a whole subgenre of shows (especially finales) and films that are almost explicit -- and genuinely bitter, not just winking -- FU's to their own audiences. The most extravagant example that usually comes to mind is Gladiator, which was (among other things) a director making no bones about how much he hated his own paying viewers. The Seinfeld finale is arguably another example. I feel like there are others out there I've noted over the years, but I can't recall them at the moment...
posted by chortly at 8:37 PM on February 23, 2015
posted by chortly at 8:37 PM on February 23, 2015
Yeah, it's nice to have a genuine, sincere FU instead of one of those passive-aggressive "We are out of milk - F.U." notes that Felix Ungar is always leaving around the apartment.
posted by Phssthpok at 10:23 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Phssthpok at 10:23 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
The most extravagant example that usually comes to mind is Gladiator, which was (among other things) a director making no bones about how much he hated his own paying viewers.
Can you elaborate on this and explain what you meant?
posted by andoatnp at 10:35 PM on February 23, 2015
Can you elaborate on this and explain what you meant?
posted by andoatnp at 10:35 PM on February 23, 2015
If you've read interviews with Chuck Lorre pre-Sheen's big blowup, or happened to see the episode of CSI the Two and a Half Men team wrote (the writing staffs of the two shows swapped for an episode), you'd know he's a man who can really hold a grudge. A bit of Roseanne's, but a lot of Brett Butler and Cybill Shepherd's bad behaviour on set seems to have so gotten under his skin that he clearly still resented them years later.
And, to be fair, some of it was pretty rotten, and I can understand why he would have found such behaviour intolerable. But it was like a decade later when they did the CSI episode and he had Katy Sagal playing an amalgam of all the leading comedic actors he hated, and then had her murdered. So he was never above using his TV shows to get revenge.
But I enjoyed a lot of those early shows, up to about Dharma and Greg, but every time I've tried watching any Two and a Half Men, what were meant to be jokes weren't even jokes, just extremely lazy writing on the basic themes listed in the article. So this last episode seems like his chance to say 'Don't worry, we knew how terrible this was all along.' When considering they stuck with it for twelve years and it never ever got even a bit better, doesn't really ring true.
He's currently involved with at least The Big Bang Theory, Mike & Molly and Mom, so he's not going anywhere. But Two and a Half Men was such a bad show that I remember watching Due Date, starring Robert Downey Jr. and Zach Galifinakis, and resenting that the film wanted me to care about a character who was a self-described megafan of the show whose one dream was to appear on it. Because how can I like someone who not only watches the show, but is devoted to it?
posted by gadge emeritus at 11:03 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
And, to be fair, some of it was pretty rotten, and I can understand why he would have found such behaviour intolerable. But it was like a decade later when they did the CSI episode and he had Katy Sagal playing an amalgam of all the leading comedic actors he hated, and then had her murdered. So he was never above using his TV shows to get revenge.
But I enjoyed a lot of those early shows, up to about Dharma and Greg, but every time I've tried watching any Two and a Half Men, what were meant to be jokes weren't even jokes, just extremely lazy writing on the basic themes listed in the article. So this last episode seems like his chance to say 'Don't worry, we knew how terrible this was all along.' When considering they stuck with it for twelve years and it never ever got even a bit better, doesn't really ring true.
He's currently involved with at least The Big Bang Theory, Mike & Molly and Mom, so he's not going anywhere. But Two and a Half Men was such a bad show that I remember watching Due Date, starring Robert Downey Jr. and Zach Galifinakis, and resenting that the film wanted me to care about a character who was a self-described megafan of the show whose one dream was to appear on it. Because how can I like someone who not only watches the show, but is devoted to it?
posted by gadge emeritus at 11:03 PM on February 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Which, mind you, is why I like Fresh Off the Boat
That's the show that Margaret Cho did first, right?
Modern Family is by far the best comedy I've seen in years, easily tied with the first two seasons of Community.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:24 AM on February 24, 2015
That's the show that Margaret Cho did first, right?
Modern Family is by far the best comedy I've seen in years, easily tied with the first two seasons of Community.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:24 AM on February 24, 2015
Modern Family is by far the best comedy I've seen in years, easily tied with the first two seasons of Community.
Really?
The Decline of Modern Family
"And Modern Family, a show I’ve long loved, can’t seem to draw comedy from anything but misunderstandings and light stereotypes, with the only variation being whether one or both parties are oblivious to the confusion."
‘Modern Family': The Most Painlessly, Effortlessly Predictable Show on TV
"There seems to be little to no effort put into the show’s writing and creative process. It relies almost singularly on the pleasant chemistry between the cast. The characters are staid; the situations are recycled; and the comedy is good-natured but bland."
posted by andoatnp at 12:56 AM on February 24, 2015
Really?
The Decline of Modern Family
"And Modern Family, a show I’ve long loved, can’t seem to draw comedy from anything but misunderstandings and light stereotypes, with the only variation being whether one or both parties are oblivious to the confusion."
‘Modern Family': The Most Painlessly, Effortlessly Predictable Show on TV
"There seems to be little to no effort put into the show’s writing and creative process. It relies almost singularly on the pleasant chemistry between the cast. The characters are staid; the situations are recycled; and the comedy is good-natured but bland."
posted by andoatnp at 12:56 AM on February 24, 2015
Yes, really. The characters are all believable, the queer married couple especially are very real, which is unusual. I think it's a great show. Perhaps it's not quite as great as it once was, but that still leaves it head and shoulders above the competition as literally the only sitcom since Community or Arrested Development that I actively want to watch.
BBT should be nuked from orbit. Actually, so should Chuck Lorre.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:31 AM on February 24, 2015
BBT should be nuked from orbit. Actually, so should Chuck Lorre.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:31 AM on February 24, 2015
Modern Family I find somewhat predictable, but still a well-oiled machine where I appreciate how it's constructed almost as much as the laughs. People complain about Mitch and Cam because they act like most married characters in sitcoms - that is, they bicker and squabble a lot. You'd think it would be great to have them portrayed just like everyone else. There's some great cast members who can do a lot with a little, though.
I have waaaay more thoughts about sitcoms, but they don't need to be revealed here. And, after all, they're just my opinion.
posted by gadge emeritus at 3:10 AM on February 24, 2015
I have waaaay more thoughts about sitcoms, but they don't need to be revealed here. And, after all, they're just my opinion.
posted by gadge emeritus at 3:10 AM on February 24, 2015
That's the show that Margaret Cho did first, right?
I think that's being pretty uncharitable to Fresh Off the Boat, not least because it's been twenty years since Cho's show, and Asian Americans have been woefully underrepresented on TV since then. Modern Family is just one of literally dozens of family-focused sitcoms about a (mostly) white family that have come out in the last few years, though it's admittedly the best of all of them, but it's not being dismissed as Married with Children 2.0 or whatever. Fresh Off the Boat is the first sitcom to feature an Asian-American family since Cho's, and its depiction of an Asian American family is in no way generic or just set dressing.
We've seen a wave of more diverse sitcoms in general in the past five years or so, and it's honestly what has me paying attention to the genre when I'd previously dismissed it. All the sitcoms in the Chuck Lorre vein tend to blur together, distinguishable only when they are especially terrible or gimmicky. I reserve special contempt for the seemingly endless parade of sitcoms featuring the schlubby husband/hot wife dynamic. Obviously these shows are successful, and they mostly chug along in the background of the TV landscape except for the occasional thinkpiece wondering what people see in them. So I applaud when one of these previously disposable sitcoms decides to go balls to the wall crazy in their final episodes, because why not? It's not like they have anything to lose.
posted by yasaman at 2:10 PM on February 24, 2015
I think that's being pretty uncharitable to Fresh Off the Boat, not least because it's been twenty years since Cho's show, and Asian Americans have been woefully underrepresented on TV since then. Modern Family is just one of literally dozens of family-focused sitcoms about a (mostly) white family that have come out in the last few years, though it's admittedly the best of all of them, but it's not being dismissed as Married with Children 2.0 or whatever. Fresh Off the Boat is the first sitcom to feature an Asian-American family since Cho's, and its depiction of an Asian American family is in no way generic or just set dressing.
We've seen a wave of more diverse sitcoms in general in the past five years or so, and it's honestly what has me paying attention to the genre when I'd previously dismissed it. All the sitcoms in the Chuck Lorre vein tend to blur together, distinguishable only when they are especially terrible or gimmicky. I reserve special contempt for the seemingly endless parade of sitcoms featuring the schlubby husband/hot wife dynamic. Obviously these shows are successful, and they mostly chug along in the background of the TV landscape except for the occasional thinkpiece wondering what people see in them. So I applaud when one of these previously disposable sitcoms decides to go balls to the wall crazy in their final episodes, because why not? It's not like they have anything to lose.
posted by yasaman at 2:10 PM on February 24, 2015
Sorry, my snark didn't come off as intended. I'm sure FOTB is a great show; what galls me is how much I've read about it being a 'breakthrough' and 'new' and all the rest of it, with Cho's show conveniently excised from memory.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:34 PM on February 24, 2015
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:34 PM on February 24, 2015
Does no one here have HBO?
posted by CommonSense at 10:16 PM on February 24, 2015
posted by CommonSense at 10:16 PM on February 24, 2015
Thanks for the link to Losing the Sheen, kmz. It's really good hate-watching. Half of the fun comes from the podcasters coming in to this last season with no previous viewing or (apparently) knowledge, and trying to figure out just what the hell is going on.
posted by benito.strauss at 4:55 PM on February 28, 2015
posted by benito.strauss at 4:55 PM on February 28, 2015
« Older Divorcing the Nest thermostat | inevitable cliches about heat and kitchens...... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments