The Subtext Buried In Seven Great Movie Chess Scenes
September 18, 2015 11:59 AM Subscribe
The Subtext Buried In Seven Great Movie Chess Scenes: "So let’s go one level deeper into some iconic movie scenes that involve a chess match. This exercise involved a lot of pausing and rewinding and probably wouldn’t have been possible without 1080p. To pick apart these cinematic chess clashes, we also spoke to chess grandmaster Robert Hess, a former U.S. national championship runner-up, and turned to the raw silicon-powered strength of the chess engine Stockfish. (We showed Hess the positions over email, without telling him anything about the movies the games were from.)" [SL538]
Also, that dog is very obviously licking peanut butter off the queen for the entire scene.
Wow, someone is ignorant of the Stanislavski Opening.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:11 PM on September 18, 2015 [15 favorites]
Wow, someone is ignorant of the Stanislavski Opening.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:11 PM on September 18, 2015 [15 favorites]
What's the subtext to Faye Dunaway basically fellating the chess pieces in The Thomas Crown Affair?
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:12 PM on September 18, 2015
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:12 PM on September 18, 2015
Also I cannot believe they didn't include 2001 in this.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:15 PM on September 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 12:15 PM on September 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
What's the subtext to Faye Dunaway basically fellating the chess pieces in The Thomas Crown Affair?
it represents doin' it
posted by entropone at 12:15 PM on September 18, 2015 [24 favorites]
it represents doin' it
posted by entropone at 12:15 PM on September 18, 2015 [24 favorites]
No Seventh Seal?
posted by Chrysostom at 12:19 PM on September 18, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:19 PM on September 18, 2015 [13 favorites]
Given how many other small technical details movies routinely screw up or gloss over in the name of plot convenience or time saving, the fact that most of these examples are actually quite well done is remarkable. This is especially true given the extremely small minority of viewers that could a) understand the board position and movies in a few quick shots and b) understand chess well enough to evaluate them. I wonder who the consultant / resident cast & crew chess expert was on these films?
Also I cannot believe they didn't include 2001 in this.
That match has been analyzed so thoroughly it has its own Wikipedia entry.
No Seventh Seal?
Also been done.
posted by jedicus at 12:20 PM on September 18, 2015 [12 favorites]
Also I cannot believe they didn't include 2001 in this.
That match has been analyzed so thoroughly it has its own Wikipedia entry.
No Seventh Seal?
Also been done.
posted by jedicus at 12:20 PM on September 18, 2015 [12 favorites]
the fact that most of these examples are actually quite well done is remarkable.
Hell, I'm impresseed that they could find that many with the board set up with a white square to the right side
posted by thelonius at 12:35 PM on September 18, 2015 [9 favorites]
Hell, I'm impresseed that they could find that many with the board set up with a white square to the right side
posted by thelonius at 12:35 PM on September 18, 2015 [9 favorites]
Very unusual to have a chess game in a scene without a checkmate.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:40 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:40 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Not being an expert I always wonder how many just nick a famous game like in Bladerunner to make life easy / as some sort of in-joke.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:42 PM on September 18, 2015
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:42 PM on September 18, 2015
Ooh, do anime next. It's chock full of ridiculous nonsense I mean symbolism.
posted by knuckle tattoos at 12:45 PM on September 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by knuckle tattoos at 12:45 PM on September 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
The very first analysis is missing 4. qxb2, cxb2++ but sure.
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:46 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:46 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Thanks jedicus. There must surely be a better analysis of the Seventh Seal one out there somewhere, though. I find the stuff about medieval rules a bit precious. Its apparent from the lay of the pieces that the game is using modern rules (black has castled). The whole film is allegorical, so this doesnt seem too grievous an oversight. Whats the interpretation of the game using modern rules?
posted by iotic at 12:47 PM on September 18, 2015
posted by iotic at 12:47 PM on September 18, 2015
No Blade Runner?
posted by Ratio at 12:53 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Ratio at 12:53 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
ridiculous nonsense I mean symbolism.
Well, if you look at it, the western knight can make a large knight move to bounce off the reversi piece, flipping it to black, and negating the white queen's influence which would otherwise be likely to rotate the shogi rook another 90 degrees within a few turns. And there's a good chance it will land on a battleship.
posted by Wolfdog at 12:54 PM on September 18, 2015 [10 favorites]
Well, if you look at it, the western knight can make a large knight move to bounce off the reversi piece, flipping it to black, and negating the white queen's influence which would otherwise be likely to rotate the shogi rook another 90 degrees within a few turns. And there's a good chance it will land on a battleship.
posted by Wolfdog at 12:54 PM on September 18, 2015 [10 favorites]
Mornington Crescent.
posted by Etrigan at 12:55 PM on September 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 12:55 PM on September 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
chock full
In that position, we're seeing the white queen placed next to the black queen, creating a discovered check (and mate) on the unseen black king elsewhere on the board. Perfectly sensible. And a pawn from Sorry! has wandered onto the board to investigate.
posted by Wolfdog at 1:04 PM on September 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
In that position, we're seeing the white queen placed next to the black queen, creating a discovered check (and mate) on the unseen black king elsewhere on the board. Perfectly sensible. And a pawn from Sorry! has wandered onto the board to investigate.
posted by Wolfdog at 1:04 PM on September 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
On a board of this aspect ratio, during the unification period, direct moves to Mornington Crescent would have been highly questionable.
posted by Wolfdog at 1:09 PM on September 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 1:09 PM on September 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
Very unusual to have a chess game in a scene without a checkmate.
Almost delivered against an expert ("dweeb") by a casual player ("cool character"). And always totally unforeseen, because, you know, Troi plays intuitively and Data is hemmed in by logic.
Ironically, most chess games between really good players that I have seen do not include a checkmate either because both players can see its inevitability several turns in advance and when that happens, the game is called. I am a passable player, and I have played in the past against friends who are less skilled than I; in both cases at one or another point I had these players in positions where their loss was unavoidable. At least one would insist on playing to the point where he was mated ("At least I took a bunch of your guys with me") and another who would sulk at any suggestion that he ought to forfeit because "we have been playing for forty-five minutes and I have no chance to win? Well, this was pointless."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:13 PM on September 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Almost delivered against an expert ("dweeb") by a casual player ("cool character"). And always totally unforeseen, because, you know, Troi plays intuitively and Data is hemmed in by logic.
Ironically, most chess games between really good players that I have seen do not include a checkmate either because both players can see its inevitability several turns in advance and when that happens, the game is called. I am a passable player, and I have played in the past against friends who are less skilled than I; in both cases at one or another point I had these players in positions where their loss was unavoidable. At least one would insist on playing to the point where he was mated ("At least I took a bunch of your guys with me") and another who would sulk at any suggestion that he ought to forfeit because "we have been playing for forty-five minutes and I have no chance to win? Well, this was pointless."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:13 PM on September 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Etrigan: "Mornington Crescent."
Check.
Wolfdog: "On a board of this aspect ratio, during the unification period, direct moves to Mornington Crescent would have been highly questionable."
Check AND mate!
posted by Samizdata at 1:21 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Check.
Wolfdog: "On a board of this aspect ratio, during the unification period, direct moves to Mornington Crescent would have been highly questionable."
Check AND mate!
posted by Samizdata at 1:21 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
ricochet biscuit: "Very unusual to have a chess game in a scene without a checkmate.
Almost delivered against an expert ("dweeb") by a casual player ("cool character"). And always totally unforeseen, because, you know, Troi plays intuitively and Data is hemmed in by logic.
Ironically, most chess games between really good players that I have seen do not include a checkmate either because both players can see its inevitability several turns in advance and when that happens, the game is called. I am a passable player, and I have played in the past against friends who are less skilled than I; in both cases at one or another point I had these players in positions where their loss was unavoidable. At least one would insist on playing to the point where he was mated ("At least I took a bunch of your guys with me") and another who would sulk at any suggestion that he ought to forfeit because "we have been playing for forty-five minutes and I have no chance to win? Well, this was pointless.""
Or I just say "Fuck it, I lost", flip the table over, and get my revenge by leaving the other player to clean up.
posted by Samizdata at 1:22 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Almost delivered against an expert ("dweeb") by a casual player ("cool character"). And always totally unforeseen, because, you know, Troi plays intuitively and Data is hemmed in by logic.
Ironically, most chess games between really good players that I have seen do not include a checkmate either because both players can see its inevitability several turns in advance and when that happens, the game is called. I am a passable player, and I have played in the past against friends who are less skilled than I; in both cases at one or another point I had these players in positions where their loss was unavoidable. At least one would insist on playing to the point where he was mated ("At least I took a bunch of your guys with me") and another who would sulk at any suggestion that he ought to forfeit because "we have been playing for forty-five minutes and I have no chance to win? Well, this was pointless.""
Or I just say "Fuck it, I lost", flip the table over, and get my revenge by leaving the other player to clean up.
posted by Samizdata at 1:22 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Etrigan: "Mornington Crescent."
You are Etrigan, and I claim my five pounds.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:23 PM on September 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
You are Etrigan, and I claim my five pounds.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:23 PM on September 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Now let's see them analyze Numberwang!
posted by Navelgazer at 1:43 PM on September 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 1:43 PM on September 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess Global Thermonuclear War?
posted by not_on_display at 2:02 PM on September 18, 2015
posted by not_on_display at 2:02 PM on September 18, 2015
Eschaton!
posted by davidjmcgee at 2:16 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by davidjmcgee at 2:16 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
There wasn't as much subtext as they could have dug out.
posted by jefflowrey at 2:25 PM on September 18, 2015
posted by jefflowrey at 2:25 PM on September 18, 2015
ridiculous nonsense I mean symbolism
Actually, Izaya's board makes sense if you understand what he's actually mapping with it - the "field" of the underworld of Shinjuku in Durarara! The mixture of pieces represent specific factions - Iirc, the go stones are the traditional gangs, the shogi pieces are the cursed sword faction (the capture and promotion aspect of the game being symbolic of the sword's ability to possess people), and the Western chess pieces being specific wildcard characters (the knight is supposed to be Celty, I believe, for an example.)
It's also meant to illustrate Izaya being a sort of chessmaster character, as well as not being quite all there - but then again, we're talking about a series where the transplanted Irish death spirit is one of the most rational, balanced, and human characters.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:45 PM on September 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Actually, Izaya's board makes sense if you understand what he's actually mapping with it - the "field" of the underworld of Shinjuku in Durarara! The mixture of pieces represent specific factions - Iirc, the go stones are the traditional gangs, the shogi pieces are the cursed sword faction (the capture and promotion aspect of the game being symbolic of the sword's ability to possess people), and the Western chess pieces being specific wildcard characters (the knight is supposed to be Celty, I believe, for an example.)
It's also meant to illustrate Izaya being a sort of chessmaster character, as well as not being quite all there - but then again, we're talking about a series where the transplanted Irish death spirit is one of the most rational, balanced, and human characters.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:45 PM on September 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Was hoping there would be the chess game played between Kurt Russell's character and the computer at the beginning of The Thing. Great find though.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 3:14 PM on September 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 3:14 PM on September 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
You are Etrigan, and I claim my five pounds.
You fool! Etrigan was merely a sock puppet gambit! Those five pounds will be cold comfort when your true opponent invokes bylaw 3401-d subsection iii.
posted by juv3nal at 3:35 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
You fool! Etrigan was merely a sock puppet gambit! Those five pounds will be cold comfort when your true opponent invokes bylaw 3401-d subsection iii.
posted by juv3nal at 3:35 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
This isn't even my final form.
posted by Etrigan at 4:17 PM on September 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 4:17 PM on September 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ooh, do anime next. It's chock full of ridiculous nonsense I mean symbolism.
Obligatory.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:43 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Obligatory.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:43 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Here's the aforementioned Dunaway vs McQueen chess scene from Thomas Crown Affair.
I like three things about this:
1)He plays a shitty King's pawn opening, and she responds better. And he knows it.
2) They end up kissing like neither of them knows how. I'd have expected someone fondling herself and the pieces like that to facelock hard.
3) What the heck is with the Tyler Durden fade to psychedelic at the end?
After seeing that, I'm pretty sure Faye holds the record for hottest chess scene. Although I was disappointed that she didn't pantomime blowing a bishop. But that's a recurring disappointment in my film studies.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 5:00 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I like three things about this:
1)He plays a shitty King's pawn opening, and she responds better. And he knows it.
2) They end up kissing like neither of them knows how. I'd have expected someone fondling herself and the pieces like that to facelock hard.
3) What the heck is with the Tyler Durden fade to psychedelic at the end?
After seeing that, I'm pretty sure Faye holds the record for hottest chess scene. Although I was disappointed that she didn't pantomime blowing a bishop. But that's a recurring disappointment in my film studies.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 5:00 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I find the Thomas Crown scene unintentionally hilarious in its "subtext" and reminds me of this early Woody Allen seduction scene from Love and Death.
posted by storybored at 5:30 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by storybored at 5:30 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
The hottest chess scene is jude law and matt damon in a talented mr ripley
posted by PinkMoose at 5:53 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by PinkMoose at 5:53 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Again, disapponited about the lack of bishop fellatio.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:49 PM on September 18, 2015
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:49 PM on September 18, 2015
Metafilter: Again, disapponited about the lack of bishop fellatio.
posted by Samizdata at 7:08 PM on September 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Samizdata at 7:08 PM on September 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
I've always been partial to Rocky IV, where the African American trainer Duke (played by Tony Burton) beats a Russian agent in chess. It just felt like a little ridiculous patriotic wink: "we can beat them mentally and physically". Classic Rocky IV. Love it.
According to IMDB, it turns out that Tony Burton is in fact an accomplished chess player.
posted by womprat78 at 8:34 PM on September 18, 2015
According to IMDB, it turns out that Tony Burton is in fact an accomplished chess player.
posted by womprat78 at 8:34 PM on September 18, 2015
"slight, roughly two-pawn advantage"
A two pawn advantage, as analyzed by a chess engine, is not "slight."
posted by nzero at 8:40 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
A two pawn advantage, as analyzed by a chess engine, is not "slight."
posted by nzero at 8:40 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
chock full of ridiculous nonsense I mean symbolism.
The Big Picture 1989 (First Date scene)
posted by ovvl at 9:23 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Big Picture 1989 (First Date scene)
posted by ovvl at 9:23 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
There must surely be a better analysis of the Seventh Seal one out there somewhere, though.
The initial position at the link jedicus provides is illegal. There's no point in analyzing absurd positions.
posted by fredludd at 12:15 AM on September 19, 2015
The initial position at the link jedicus provides is illegal. There's no point in analyzing absurd positions.
posted by fredludd at 12:15 AM on September 19, 2015
Viewed properly the entirety of Furious7 is one long chess game where only the audience loses.
posted by blue_beetle at 6:32 AM on September 19, 2015
posted by blue_beetle at 6:32 AM on September 19, 2015
The initial position at the link jedicus provides is illegal. There's no point in analyzing absurd positions.
Forgive my ignorance. How is that first position illegal? I'm not seeing it.
posted by iotic at 7:56 AM on September 19, 2015
Forgive my ignorance. How is that first position illegal? I'm not seeing it.
posted by iotic at 7:56 AM on September 19, 2015
1)He plays a shitty King's pawn opening, and she responds better. And he knows it.
If he played e4 then... a4 or something, yeah, not a good opening. But e4 followed by nf3 is pretty much a standard (if not boring) strong move. She plays a standard reply, so I think his reaction is more "oh, she knows how to play."
posted by starman at 8:10 AM on September 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
If he played e4 then... a4 or something, yeah, not a good opening. But e4 followed by nf3 is pretty much a standard (if not boring) strong move. She plays a standard reply, so I think his reaction is more "oh, she knows how to play."
posted by starman at 8:10 AM on September 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Forgive my ignorance. How is that first position illegal? I'm not seeing it.
I'm going to hazard a guess and say black's pawns are arranged such as could only happen by them capturing two pieces, and the pieces white is missing (a bishop and two pawns, one of them on the wrong side of the board) don't seem likely to have gotten to the needed squares? I don't know much about chess other than how the pieces move, though...
posted by rifflesby at 8:12 AM on September 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm going to hazard a guess and say black's pawns are arranged such as could only happen by them capturing two pieces, and the pieces white is missing (a bishop and two pawns, one of them on the wrong side of the board) don't seem likely to have gotten to the needed squares? I don't know much about chess other than how the pieces move, though...
posted by rifflesby at 8:12 AM on September 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
The position is not illegal; it can be achieved as follows.
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Result "*"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
1.e4 Nf6 2.Bc4 b5 3.Bxb5 c6 4.Bxc6 a6 5.Bd5 d6 6.g4 Be6 7.d3 Nbd7 8.Bf4 Nb6 9.g5 Qc7 10.gxf6 gxf6 11.Be5 fxe5 12.Nd2 Qc3 13.a3 Qxb2 14.Ngf3 Bh6 15.Ba2 Qc3 16.Ke2 Qc8 17.Ke1 Bg5 18.Nxg5 O-O 19.Ngf3 Qe8 20.Ke2 Nc8 21.Ke1 f6
*
But it's definitely absurd, and I doubt there's any way to achieve it without completely loony moves like those.
posted by Wolfdog at 8:55 AM on September 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Result "*"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
1.e4 Nf6 2.Bc4 b5 3.Bxb5 c6 4.Bxc6 a6 5.Bd5 d6 6.g4 Be6 7.d3 Nbd7 8.Bf4 Nb6 9.g5 Qc7 10.gxf6 gxf6 11.Be5 fxe5 12.Nd2 Qc3 13.a3 Qxb2 14.Ngf3 Bh6 15.Ba2 Qc3 16.Ke2 Qc8 17.Ke1 Bg5 18.Nxg5 O-O 19.Ngf3 Qe8 20.Ke2 Nc8 21.Ke1 f6
*
But it's definitely absurd, and I doubt there's any way to achieve it without completely loony moves like those.
posted by Wolfdog at 8:55 AM on September 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
Oops, I think you need 22. Nb3 Bd5 at the end there.
posted by Wolfdog at 9:07 AM on September 19, 2015
posted by Wolfdog at 9:07 AM on September 19, 2015
Good analysis, Wolfdog. I was too hasty in my judgement.
posted by fredludd at 9:37 AM on September 19, 2015
posted by fredludd at 9:37 AM on September 19, 2015
Misread that as chase scenes so when clicked the link I was like wtf is this?
My favorite chess movie? Fresh
posted by hoodrich at 9:59 AM on September 19, 2015
My favorite chess movie? Fresh
posted by hoodrich at 9:59 AM on September 19, 2015
But it's definitely absurd, and I doubt there's any way to achieve it without completely loony moves like those.
Thanks Wolfdog.
Well at least it's better than the Back to the Future dog game. Probably not the sort of accolade Bergman would have envisaged for his masterwork, I grant you.
posted by iotic at 10:16 AM on September 19, 2015
Thanks Wolfdog.
Well at least it's better than the Back to the Future dog game. Probably not the sort of accolade Bergman would have envisaged for his masterwork, I grant you.
posted by iotic at 10:16 AM on September 19, 2015
The BttF game makes (more) sense if you figure that Copernicus offered a rook handicap to start. Then we can at least imagine that Marty blundered away all of his pieces on light squares before eventually dispatching white's bishop. In a way, it's more accurate as a representation of a game between a complete novice and a bored expert than the Bergman game is as a representation of any game between sane players at all.
posted by Wolfdog at 10:29 AM on September 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 10:29 AM on September 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also I would not be surprised to see tournament chess players licking peanut butter off their queen if they thought it would distract or annoy their opponent.
posted by Wolfdog at 10:35 AM on September 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 10:35 AM on September 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
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"Nothing to analyze here: White has been checkmated."
Um.
Are they being ironic?
posted by Cookiebastard at 12:10 PM on September 18, 2015 [6 favorites]