Jonesing
November 19, 2015 6:02 PM Subscribe
Hours ahead of its release, Netflix (not ABC) unveiled the full Jessica Jones title sequence. #JessicaJones
[Spoilers ahead]
Meanwhile, catch up on recent trailer, peruse the episode synopses, and read interviews with Krysten (Jessica Jones) Ritter, David (Kilgrave) Tennant, and showrunner Melissa Rosenberg.
Haven't read the comics? Tansy Rayner Roberts explains the appeal.
(Previously)
[Spoilers ahead]
Meanwhile, catch up on recent trailer, peruse the episode synopses, and read interviews with Krysten (Jessica Jones) Ritter, David (Kilgrave) Tennant, and showrunner Melissa Rosenberg.
Haven't read the comics? Tansy Rayner Roberts explains the appeal.
(Previously)
I keep making jokes that if I hate this show, I am done with Marvel. Possibly comics. Someone told me I should be done with TV, so I'll be done with that too.
I also thought it was going to be up at midnight East Coast time, which is what I was planning for. Nope. That's midnight Pacific, so 3 a.m. EST. I have a long night ahead of me. I have tomorrow off, though, and I may take a nap in the meantime.
posted by darksong at 6:14 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I also thought it was going to be up at midnight East Coast time, which is what I was planning for. Nope. That's midnight Pacific, so 3 a.m. EST. I have a long night ahead of me. I have tomorrow off, though, and I may take a nap in the meantime.
posted by darksong at 6:14 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Why even bother with a title sequence? Netflix auto-skips all but the first instance anyhow.
So you can compete with free.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:20 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
So you can compete with free.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:20 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wait, do we have to binge watch this one? Would it be ok to just do one a night or every few days? Don't think I can keep the eyes open at 3am.
posted by sammyo at 6:20 PM on November 19, 2015
posted by sammyo at 6:20 PM on November 19, 2015
I don't know anything about her from the comics but Daredevil was by far my favorite of any of the MCU efforts so I have high hopes for this.
posted by octothorpe at 6:23 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 6:23 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm just excited about Krysten Ritter being in something else.
#donttrusttheb #nevrforget # toosoon #letsdoawholebunchofpills
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:26 PM on November 19, 2015 [13 favorites]
#donttrusttheb #nevrforget # toosoon #letsdoawholebunchofpills
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:26 PM on November 19, 2015 [13 favorites]
My love for Krysten Ritter runs deep (like I've paid money to watch Vamps, although it's kind of silly dumb fun. The cast is good and they know what movie they're in. I don't know if I'm recommending it, exactly, but if you ever find yourself a bit drunk with about $5 to spend on it on a streaming site ... you could do worse).
After having watched her in so many things that weren't great, I'm happy she's in something that may understand her talent. This seems like it may be the leading role she has deserved.
posted by darksong at 7:07 PM on November 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
After having watched her in so many things that weren't great, I'm happy she's in something that may understand her talent. This seems like it may be the leading role she has deserved.
posted by darksong at 7:07 PM on November 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
Today I just saw video of the moment when someone at Huffington Post explained to David Tennant - who is a minister's son, I hasten to add - the definition of "Netflix and chill".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:24 PM on November 19, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:24 PM on November 19, 2015 [15 favorites]
Did Gaydos do the cover art on Alias?
And the interiors, yes.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:46 PM on November 19, 2015
And the interiors, yes.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:46 PM on November 19, 2015
Every review I've read says JJ is good, though dark in excellent, if occasionally troubling ways. I can not wait to watch, all the teasers have been great.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:57 PM on November 19, 2015
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:57 PM on November 19, 2015
Why even bother with a title sequence? Netflix auto-skips all but the first instance anyhow.
That's weird. I'm pretty sure I watched (and enjoyed) the credit sequence on every Daredevil episode. I guess I'll find out shortly.
posted by ODiV at 7:58 PM on November 19, 2015
That's weird. I'm pretty sure I watched (and enjoyed) the credit sequence on every Daredevil episode. I guess I'll find out shortly.
posted by ODiV at 7:58 PM on November 19, 2015
As far as I remember, I've never had Netflix skip any credit sequences. Maybe it doesn't do that on Roku?
posted by octothorpe at 8:03 PM on November 19, 2015
posted by octothorpe at 8:03 PM on November 19, 2015
So these things bothered me about Daredevil (mild spoilers?):
1. How he stays out all night fighting crime yet manages to lawyer during the day. I don't think we ever see him sleep.
2. How he comes into work beaten to a pulp and everybody just blows it off because, what, blind guy?
Otherwise I enjoyed it and look forward to this one too.
posted by echocollate at 8:17 PM on November 19, 2015
1. How he stays out all night fighting crime yet manages to lawyer during the day. I don't think we ever see him sleep.
2. How he comes into work beaten to a pulp and everybody just blows it off because, what, blind guy?
Otherwise I enjoyed it and look forward to this one too.
posted by echocollate at 8:17 PM on November 19, 2015
While I'm bummed that "Bad Reputation" didn't jump from teaser trailer to main titles (NO NO NO NO), I really like what the producers came up with, especially how it fells like one of David Mack's covers brought to life.
posted by RakDaddy at 8:19 PM on November 19, 2015
posted by RakDaddy at 8:19 PM on November 19, 2015
Did Gaydos do the cover art on Alias?
Most of the Alias covers (and some of the interior work, like the diaries) were done by David Mack. He also worked on the opening credits for the show.
posted by Uncle Ira at 8:20 PM on November 19, 2015
Most of the Alias covers (and some of the interior work, like the diaries) were done by David Mack. He also worked on the opening credits for the show.
posted by Uncle Ira at 8:20 PM on November 19, 2015
I would've been happy with the Of Monsters And Men song they used in the trailers. This... uptempo jazz improv, I guess? creates an expectation of madcap tension, so I hope the episodes themselves can meet it.
And is it me, or does the title sequence echo some of the panels from early issues of the comic?
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:27 PM on November 19, 2015
And is it me, or does the title sequence echo some of the panels from early issues of the comic?
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:27 PM on November 19, 2015
I'm with the others. Netflix never skips the titles. Who sees it skipping titles?
posted by Justinian at 9:39 PM on November 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 9:39 PM on November 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I swear I have seen netflix skip title sequences, but it hasn't done it in recent memory, so now I'm questioning myself.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 9:47 PM on November 19, 2015
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 9:47 PM on November 19, 2015
Thanks, Uncle Ira. I thought the opening credits were remarkable for how they captured the feel and style of the Alias cover art in motion. Lovely work in both mediums, David Mack.
posted by Auden at 9:49 PM on November 19, 2015
posted by Auden at 9:49 PM on November 19, 2015
Krysten Ritter and Jessica Jones‘ Showrunner Explain How the Show Addresses PTSD, Rape, and Female Sexuality
posted by homunculus at 12:21 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 12:21 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh, this is very good. I probably shouldn't watch it all in one go right now.
posted by Artw at 12:47 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 12:47 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's excellent. I shouldn't watch it now either, but MAMA DIDN'T RAISE A QUITTER.
The first time I ever saw netflix actually skip an intro was a few weeks ago on an episode of Clone Wars a few weeks ago when the lede would have been useful. It did not happen during the first five seasons of that show, or any other show. I think it depends on device. I'm usually on PC, chrome browser, for the record.
posted by sandswipe at 12:54 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
The first time I ever saw netflix actually skip an intro was a few weeks ago on an episode of Clone Wars a few weeks ago when the lede would have been useful. It did not happen during the first five seasons of that show, or any other show. I think it depends on device. I'm usually on PC, chrome browser, for the record.
posted by sandswipe at 12:54 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh... A freind started watching Clone Wars recently and mentioned it being incoherent, was wondering if he was missing something, I wonder if it was that.
posted by Artw at 1:03 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by Artw at 1:03 AM on November 20, 2015
The combination of MCU/Netflix, Ritter and Tennant (in that order) has me in a state of intense anticipation. That, and the early reviews. I loved Daredevil, but I wasn't able to get the wife to follow along due to the intensity of the violence. I'm hoping that this may do the trick.
posted by Edgewise at 1:20 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by Edgewise at 1:20 AM on November 20, 2015
Clone Wars has a radiodrama style intro at the beginning of every episode ("CLASH ON MANDALORE! AS THE REPUBLIC CONTINUES ITS CAMPAIGN TO etc"), and every four(ish) episodes form an almost entirely self-contained film. It mostly makes sense without those, but these films are also not quite in chronological order, so in that way I can see it getting scrambled without those bits of narration. Personally I LOVE the nonchronological, jumpy style of Clone Wars, it makes the whole thing feel a thousand times more faithful to a losing war where nobody has a complete picture of what's happening but everyone feels like they're winning their part while the people around them are messing everything up.
But that's a bit of a derail.
So far, one and a half episodes in, Jones is significantly less violent than daredevil but there's a distinct theme of sexual assault and general manipulation so if that's an issue for you, y'know.
posted by sandswipe at 1:28 AM on November 20, 2015
But that's a bit of a derail.
So far, one and a half episodes in, Jones is significantly less violent than daredevil but there's a distinct theme of sexual assault and general manipulation so if that's an issue for you, y'know.
posted by sandswipe at 1:28 AM on November 20, 2015
Variety has a long, interesting interview with Ritter , which includes this exchange:
One of the most striking aspects of the show to me is that I’ve never seen a show tackle rape culture and issues of consent with this kind of nuance and honesty, and all without feeling the need to show a physical rape scene. It never feels gratuitous and it never feels like pushing an agenda, but it’s depressing how subversive that still is on TV these days. But it’s also so thrilling to watch you guys nailing the realities of being a woman, and to present that perspective unapologetically, while at the same time illustrating just how universal those struggles are. Did it feel that subversive to you while reading it?
Everything that you’re saying, I almost feel overwhelmed just hearing you say that, because that’s how I felt when I read the scripts and I felt like this was such a huge thing, beyond just, “Oh, Krysten, that’s a great part.” I felt like it was really important; I feel like it’s a show that’s so meaty and matters. I was also talking to somebody about the lack of f—ing rad roles for women, and this is one of the only parts that I’ve seen where I don’t have to get naked … there is the history of assault, yes, but we don’t depict it. It’s not literally on your screen. We’re dealing with the aftermath and the emotional struggles and how that affects her, but it’s rare. I don’t really enjoy doing things like that — I don’t like sex scenes. I don’t like stuff like that and a lot of times, it’s cool rad character, “oh, but you have to get naked,” or “oh, but you’re going to do this terrible sex scene that makes you really uncomfortable” or a rape scene. And the only part that I really think of in the past, I don’t know, six years, that was an amazing female [lead] role that didn’t have to do all of those things is “Zero Dark Thirty,” and now Jessica Jones, and that’s a huge thing to say, but that’s how I feel.
The mag's review of the series calls it "not just a contender for the title Best Marvel-related TV Property [but] in a supremely crowded TV scene...one of the year’s most distinctive new dramas."
posted by mediareport at 2:45 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
One of the most striking aspects of the show to me is that I’ve never seen a show tackle rape culture and issues of consent with this kind of nuance and honesty, and all without feeling the need to show a physical rape scene. It never feels gratuitous and it never feels like pushing an agenda, but it’s depressing how subversive that still is on TV these days. But it’s also so thrilling to watch you guys nailing the realities of being a woman, and to present that perspective unapologetically, while at the same time illustrating just how universal those struggles are. Did it feel that subversive to you while reading it?
Everything that you’re saying, I almost feel overwhelmed just hearing you say that, because that’s how I felt when I read the scripts and I felt like this was such a huge thing, beyond just, “Oh, Krysten, that’s a great part.” I felt like it was really important; I feel like it’s a show that’s so meaty and matters. I was also talking to somebody about the lack of f—ing rad roles for women, and this is one of the only parts that I’ve seen where I don’t have to get naked … there is the history of assault, yes, but we don’t depict it. It’s not literally on your screen. We’re dealing with the aftermath and the emotional struggles and how that affects her, but it’s rare. I don’t really enjoy doing things like that — I don’t like sex scenes. I don’t like stuff like that and a lot of times, it’s cool rad character, “oh, but you have to get naked,” or “oh, but you’re going to do this terrible sex scene that makes you really uncomfortable” or a rape scene. And the only part that I really think of in the past, I don’t know, six years, that was an amazing female [lead] role that didn’t have to do all of those things is “Zero Dark Thirty,” and now Jessica Jones, and that’s a huge thing to say, but that’s how I feel.
The mag's review of the series calls it "not just a contender for the title Best Marvel-related TV Property [but] in a supremely crowded TV scene...one of the year’s most distinctive new dramas."
posted by mediareport at 2:45 AM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, I just borrowed the anthology of Alias, the comic it's based on, and was surprised to learn firsthand how good it is - powerful and dark and intelligent and really bold in the way it tells its story and works a brand new strong female character into the crowded Marvel universe. A couple of misfires near the end but I bet the TV version avoids those. Can't wait to find out.
posted by mediareport at 2:50 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by mediareport at 2:50 AM on November 20, 2015
Wanted to watch a bunch of episodes before sleeping but only made it through one because Netflix appears to be getting hammered so I was BUFFERING.... BUFFERING... BUFFERING... . I had to manually change the buffering bitrate down to 1750 from 3000.
Great episode. As sandswipe says, this looks to be hitting themes of violation heavily in exactly the way Daredevil was hitting the violent masculinity.
Can't wait to watch the rest. The first episode was significantly better than any episode of any of the new shows I've watched this year. The Netflix Originals are the only reason I'm keeping my subscription to Netflix these days but its a great reason.
I think the Netflix CEO was right on last (?) year when he said they were in a race to become HBO before HBO could become Netflix.
posted by Justinian at 3:00 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Great episode. As sandswipe says, this looks to be hitting themes of violation heavily in exactly the way Daredevil was hitting the violent masculinity.
Can't wait to watch the rest. The first episode was significantly better than any episode of any of the new shows I've watched this year. The Netflix Originals are the only reason I'm keeping my subscription to Netflix these days but its a great reason.
I think the Netflix CEO was right on last (?) year when he said they were in a race to become HBO before HBO could become Netflix.
posted by Justinian at 3:00 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm three episodes in and I love it so much. It's my favorite MCU related thing (although ... not hard to do). It's what I wanted and more. You don't have to care about comics or the MCU to like this.
It's bleak and dark but not soul-crushing. It's also really entertaining. I'm having so much fun. I am sleep deprived and slightly drunk though, so ...
(Such an amazing cast dominated by women! I am delighted!)
posted by darksong at 3:09 AM on November 20, 2015
It's bleak and dark but not soul-crushing. It's also really entertaining. I'm having so much fun. I am sleep deprived and slightly drunk though, so ...
(Such an amazing cast dominated by women! I am delighted!)
posted by darksong at 3:09 AM on November 20, 2015
TURN YOUR DAMN LIGHTS OFF WHEN YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE JESSICA
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:05 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:05 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Spoiler alert!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 AM on November 20, 2015
I also had no idea what Netflix and chill actually meant....
Perhaps because "Netflix and chill" literally describes every evening at my house post-8PM preschooler bedtime.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:47 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Perhaps because "Netflix and chill" literally describes every evening at my house post-8PM preschooler bedtime.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:47 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Christ, we sometimes don't get done putting ours to bed till 10 these days...
posted by Artw at 7:57 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:57 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Netflix and Chill is the new Come up and See my Etchings.
posted by Justinian at 8:10 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 8:10 AM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Comic spoiler question:
All this talk about rape culture has left me a bit baffled. Am I incorrect in recalling a scene between Jones and (I think) Luke Cage where she says something like "there are worse things that can happen to a woman than rape"? I thought she also added that she wasn't physically assaulted but her trauma is a result of Purple Man's use of his powers on her. Am I mis-remembering the story, or did I interpret it wrong?
posted by sardonyx at 8:40 AM on November 20, 2015
All this talk about rape culture has left me a bit baffled. Am I incorrect in recalling a scene between Jones and (I think) Luke Cage where she says something like "there are worse things that can happen to a woman than rape"? I thought she also added that she wasn't physically assaulted but her trauma is a result of Purple Man's use of his powers on her. Am I mis-remembering the story, or did I interpret it wrong?
posted by sardonyx at 8:40 AM on November 20, 2015
6 Ways "jessica Jones" Changed the Marvel Universe
posted by Artw at 10:03 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:03 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is it me or is anyone else getting major Carrion Comfort vibes from this? Or maybe I'm the only person who remembers Carrion Comfort in the first place...
posted by Justinian at 10:09 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by Justinian at 10:09 AM on November 20, 2015
And yes I stayed up and watched 7 episodes now. I hate myself.
posted by Justinian at 10:13 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by Justinian at 10:13 AM on November 20, 2015
Punch something, you'll feel better.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:13 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:13 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Scrunch that clock.
posted by Artw at 10:22 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:22 AM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
sardonyx: My reading is that rape culture doesn't just involve physical assault. She was definitely sexually assaulted. There was definitely a lack of consent.
posted by ODiV at 10:23 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by ODiV at 10:23 AM on November 20, 2015
I really want a Master of None-style juxtaposition of Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson walking home together at night with Jessica Jones and Patricia Walker doing the same.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:24 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:24 AM on November 20, 2015
(Netflix will frequently skip the "previously on..." segment - and occasionally the title sequence if they come right after the previouslies - when you use the autoplay next episode feature. )
posted by cnelson at 11:33 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by cnelson at 11:33 AM on November 20, 2015
That's going to cause problems on Clone Wars, where it's very much part of the story.
posted by Artw at 11:36 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by Artw at 11:36 AM on November 20, 2015
Thanks ODiV, I'll have to look up that issue again. I always took it as having her free will taken and having her mind invaded was the ultimate degradation (which is something that I can understand) and that the Purple Man skipped the sexual assault portion of the torture.
posted by sardonyx at 11:44 AM on November 20, 2015
posted by sardonyx at 11:44 AM on November 20, 2015
I wouldn't at all be surprised if Netflix knows by the series or even the episode whether it's okay to skip the title sequence or any other part of the intro section of the show.
In my current experience, watching Buffy and Angel skips nothing (because there's a cold open), but watching M*A*S*H starts directly into the show, skipping the title sequence. (And that's fine, because really how many times do I have to hear "Suicide Is Painless"?)
posted by cardioid at 12:21 PM on November 20, 2015
In my current experience, watching Buffy and Angel skips nothing (because there's a cold open), but watching M*A*S*H starts directly into the show, skipping the title sequence. (And that's fine, because really how many times do I have to hear "Suicide Is Painless"?)
posted by cardioid at 12:21 PM on November 20, 2015
Jessica Jones has a hidden superhero
Oh, good. That means there'll be a proper Defender in The Defenders.
(Sorry, I'm a bit of a Gerber/D.A. Kraft purist when it comes to The Defenders.)
posted by Grangousier at 12:50 PM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh, good. That means there'll be a proper Defender in The Defenders.
(Sorry, I'm a bit of a Gerber/D.A. Kraft purist when it comes to The Defenders.)
posted by Grangousier at 12:50 PM on November 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
What do you want, The Invaders?
posted by Artw at 1:32 PM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:32 PM on November 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
As long as it's not illustrated by Frank Robbins.
Anyway, I'm really enjoying Jessica Jones. Krysten Ritter in particular is marvellous. Triggery though, eh?
posted by Grangousier at 1:42 PM on November 20, 2015
Anyway, I'm really enjoying Jessica Jones. Krysten Ritter in particular is marvellous. Triggery though, eh?
posted by Grangousier at 1:42 PM on November 20, 2015
(Netflix will frequently skip the "previously on..." segment - and occasionally the title sequence if they come right after the previouslies - when you use the autoplay next episode feature. )
Yeah, most shows now have a teaser act now between the previously and the titles, and Netflix won't skip the titles in that case.
posted by zixyer at 3:06 PM on November 20, 2015
Yeah, most shows now have a teaser act now between the previously and the titles, and Netflix won't skip the titles in that case.
posted by zixyer at 3:06 PM on November 20, 2015
I thought she also added that she wasn't physically assaulted but her trauma is a result of Purple Man's use of his powers on her.
I think the most interesting thing about this is that Jessica more or less can't be physically assaulted -- it's apparently very difficult to do her harm or overpower her physically. She is not vulnerable to one popular conception of rape (which may be one reason she feels free to hook up with Luke).
That means a protagonist-sympathetic viewer has to be aware of her vulnerability to other forms of coercion and manipulation. And of course the clear direction of the show is to explore this: the deep impacts of past coercion she experienced, her trying to get people to believe this kind of coercion can happen, and to stop it from happening.
I'm almost a little disappointed that Killgrave's coercion is so super-powered. Might be better if he were more manipulative and hypnotic than commanding, but this will be interesting too.
Interestingly, *her* job arguably also involves some degree of violation, if a much milder degree of social and privacy norms.
posted by namespan at 5:13 PM on November 20, 2015
I think the most interesting thing about this is that Jessica more or less can't be physically assaulted -- it's apparently very difficult to do her harm or overpower her physically. She is not vulnerable to one popular conception of rape (which may be one reason she feels free to hook up with Luke).
That means a protagonist-sympathetic viewer has to be aware of her vulnerability to other forms of coercion and manipulation. And of course the clear direction of the show is to explore this: the deep impacts of past coercion she experienced, her trying to get people to believe this kind of coercion can happen, and to stop it from happening.
I'm almost a little disappointed that Killgrave's coercion is so super-powered. Might be better if he were more manipulative and hypnotic than commanding, but this will be interesting too.
Interestingly, *her* job arguably also involves some degree of violation, if a much milder degree of social and privacy norms.
posted by namespan at 5:13 PM on November 20, 2015
So Kilgrave tells women to smile, has a formalized ritual he puts women through, and makes them do what he wants using key phrases?
I'm not saying he's NOT a pick up artist buuuuttrtt
posted by The Whelk at 5:23 PM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm not saying he's NOT a pick up artist buuuuttrtt
posted by The Whelk at 5:23 PM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
and that the Purple Man skipped the sexual assault portion of the torture.
[SPOILERS FOR THE COMIC]
In the comic, Jones tells Luke Cage that the Purple Man never raped her, but made her watch as he raped other women, while also making her wish he was raping her. It's a horrifying image as she describes it to Luke. She also says he made her repeatedly beg for him to rape her, over and over.
The fact that the Purple Man never physically rapes Jones in the comic does not make his sexual abuse of her seem less horrific. At all.
posted by mediareport at 7:24 PM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
[SPOILERS FOR THE COMIC]
In the comic, Jones tells Luke Cage that the Purple Man never raped her, but made her watch as he raped other women, while also making her wish he was raping her. It's a horrifying image as she describes it to Luke. She also says he made her repeatedly beg for him to rape her, over and over.
The fact that the Purple Man never physically rapes Jones in the comic does not make his sexual abuse of her seem less horrific. At all.
posted by mediareport at 7:24 PM on November 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I really want to like this but it's too women-in-peril for me.
posted by rtha at 8:20 PM on November 20, 2015
posted by rtha at 8:20 PM on November 20, 2015
That's understandable, for sure. I'm 3 episodes in, and it's clearly a rape survivor's story, with all the horror that entails. For more, here's an excerpt from an interview with the showrunner, Melissa Rosenberg (with a big spoiler warning before it discusses episode seven, so stop there if you're not done):
Variety: Over the course of the seven episodes I saw, Jessica is both dealing with PTSD and the effects of being a rape survivor. Is all that accurate to say?
MR: Absolutely. She’s a rape survivor. That’s one of the themes of the season — the impact of rape and abuse.
V: I have to say, I think it’s effective that, in what I saw, you don’t show the actual rape. But you show the effects of it on her life and how she is coping with it, which is extremely valuable.
MR: What we really wanted to show was the fallout. The imagery of rape — I mean, how many shows have you seen where there’s an image of a woman with her clothes ripped off and she’s been violated and she’s on the ground and all of that?
V: Way too many shows do that. And really so often, rape and assault are just there to add “edge.” There’s a lot of, “Well, let’s make our show grittier with a spot of rape.”
MR: I know. It’s just so tired. It’s lazy and dull storytelling, if nothing else. We have this rich, complex female lead and we are looking at what happened to her from her perspective. We were not going to do that thing where it’s about how the hero’s wife and child were killed and how his wife was raped — and it’s all about how he has to get revenge because that was “his woman.” We are not doing that. We are looking at the aftermath of what happened to her from her viewpoint.
So far the show's been pretty good (with the same plot hole problems that plague most mainstream superhero stuff), but the menace of the rapist seems fairly well-tempered by the relatively strong and complex female characters. We'll see if that holds up as the story intensifies.
posted by mediareport at 2:42 AM on November 21, 2015
Variety: Over the course of the seven episodes I saw, Jessica is both dealing with PTSD and the effects of being a rape survivor. Is all that accurate to say?
MR: Absolutely. She’s a rape survivor. That’s one of the themes of the season — the impact of rape and abuse.
V: I have to say, I think it’s effective that, in what I saw, you don’t show the actual rape. But you show the effects of it on her life and how she is coping with it, which is extremely valuable.
MR: What we really wanted to show was the fallout. The imagery of rape — I mean, how many shows have you seen where there’s an image of a woman with her clothes ripped off and she’s been violated and she’s on the ground and all of that?
V: Way too many shows do that. And really so often, rape and assault are just there to add “edge.” There’s a lot of, “Well, let’s make our show grittier with a spot of rape.”
MR: I know. It’s just so tired. It’s lazy and dull storytelling, if nothing else. We have this rich, complex female lead and we are looking at what happened to her from her perspective. We were not going to do that thing where it’s about how the hero’s wife and child were killed and how his wife was raped — and it’s all about how he has to get revenge because that was “his woman.” We are not doing that. We are looking at the aftermath of what happened to her from her viewpoint.
So far the show's been pretty good (with the same plot hole problems that plague most mainstream superhero stuff), but the menace of the rapist seems fairly well-tempered by the relatively strong and complex female characters. We'll see if that holds up as the story intensifies.
posted by mediareport at 2:42 AM on November 21, 2015
Well, if a show has a cold open before the titles, obviously the titles don't get skipped, because that's impossible. And, yeah, it seems to be on a per-episode basis, though sometimes they do get it wrong and just chop off the first minute or so of the action and you have to skip back to the beginning.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:31 AM on November 21, 2015
posted by Sys Rq at 7:31 AM on November 21, 2015
Five episodes in and so far I think it's at least as good as the Daredevil, series, if not better. It might even be better than the original comic.
posted by tdismukes at 8:15 AM on November 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by tdismukes at 8:15 AM on November 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Dudes, there is not nearly enough Carrie Anne Moss love going on here. I am only just finished with ep 2. I don't care if she dies in ep3 (which obviously I am watching immediately), she is fantastic.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:29 PM on November 22, 2015
posted by DarlingBri at 4:29 PM on November 22, 2015
Maybe it's just the power of Tennant's personal aura, but while watching this it came to seem to me that The Doctor is waaay more like Kilgrave than I'm comfortable with. The Doctor's mental edge is generally sheer intelligence instead of mind control, and he's a lot more for saving people and a lot less for leaving broken trail of people behind, but he is also pretty much always manipulating people and events and playing fast and loose with the truth for his purposes.
posted by namespan at 5:00 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by namespan at 5:00 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Great episode. As sandswipe says, this looks to be hitting themes of violation heavily in exactly the way Daredevil was hitting the violent masculinity.
Daredevil was a very well-made show, but I don't think you can argue it hit themes of violent masculinity in any way other than to celebrate it.
The show was pro-violence and pro-torture. Everyone Murdock beat up deserved it. The fights were often the bravura set pieces of the episodes they were in (and a bunch of them really were very nicely choreographed and shot). At least one person in custody was beaten up by the hero. Every thug in the city was beaten up without comment, and they all had useful information, and they all gave it up under threat of (further) violence. A nurse abandons the hippocratic oath and advises Murdock on the most painful way he can torture a thug, and the thug has the information they need, and gives it to them.
Karen Page has to shoot someone and the show does show that this upsets her, but all of the outcomes of her act of violence are positive for the hero's side. After the legal team gets Fisk arrested (the system works! Maybe the show is interested in investigating this angle after all!) Fisk escapes and can only be defeated with violence.
If Jessica Jones handles sexual assault and its aftermath as intelligently as Daredevil investigated the culture of toxic masculinity, then I'll probably avoid watching it.
posted by Cantdosleepy at 1:48 AM on November 23, 2015
Daredevil was a very well-made show, but I don't think you can argue it hit themes of violent masculinity in any way other than to celebrate it.
The show was pro-violence and pro-torture. Everyone Murdock beat up deserved it. The fights were often the bravura set pieces of the episodes they were in (and a bunch of them really were very nicely choreographed and shot). At least one person in custody was beaten up by the hero. Every thug in the city was beaten up without comment, and they all had useful information, and they all gave it up under threat of (further) violence. A nurse abandons the hippocratic oath and advises Murdock on the most painful way he can torture a thug, and the thug has the information they need, and gives it to them.
Karen Page has to shoot someone and the show does show that this upsets her, but all of the outcomes of her act of violence are positive for the hero's side. After the legal team gets Fisk arrested (the system works! Maybe the show is interested in investigating this angle after all!) Fisk escapes and can only be defeated with violence.
If Jessica Jones handles sexual assault and its aftermath as intelligently as Daredevil investigated the culture of toxic masculinity, then I'll probably avoid watching it.
posted by Cantdosleepy at 1:48 AM on November 23, 2015
If Jessica Jones handles sexual assault and its aftermath as intelligently as Daredevil investigated the culture of toxic masculinity, then I'll probably avoid watching it.
Don't watch the show.
Me, I enjoyed it (not so much the bit where Killgrave's sole motivation was he was a stalker), and I didn't enjoy it as much as Daredevil. I thought it was 10 episodes stretched, but I clapped so hard when She turned up at the end (as hard as I would have headsmacked as if He turned up) I give it a pass.
It also avoided constant Avengers callbacks. That was nice.
posted by Mezentian at 3:20 AM on November 23, 2015
Don't watch the show.
Me, I enjoyed it (not so much the bit where Killgrave's sole motivation was he was a stalker), and I didn't enjoy it as much as Daredevil. I thought it was 10 episodes stretched, but I clapped so hard when She turned up at the end (as hard as I would have headsmacked as if He turned up) I give it a pass.
It also avoided constant Avengers callbacks. That was nice.
posted by Mezentian at 3:20 AM on November 23, 2015
Jessica Jones has a hidden superhero
That... was not hidden. At all. To me. And there was a character called Greer too, I think. I doubt we'll ever get Tigra (can you imagine the backlash if Jezebel were still around? Plus, she was also a bit silly) but I can see Moon Knight. I mean, we are pretty much set for classic Wackos otherwise, Wonder Man aside.
(Although, there was one point where I was questioning her hair colour, and why her outfit was from the Smallville garage sale.)
posted by Mezentian at 3:27 AM on November 23, 2015
That... was not hidden. At all. To me. And there was a character called Greer too, I think. I doubt we'll ever get Tigra (can you imagine the backlash if Jezebel were still around? Plus, she was also a bit silly) but I can see Moon Knight. I mean, we are pretty much set for classic Wackos otherwise, Wonder Man aside.
(Although, there was one point where I was questioning her hair colour, and why her outfit was from the Smallville garage sale.)
posted by Mezentian at 3:27 AM on November 23, 2015
I clapped so hard when She turned up at the end
If she had her own show, I think I would watch it.
posted by namespan at 2:29 PM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
If she had her own show, I think I would watch it.
posted by namespan at 2:29 PM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think there's going to be a uniform response to how sexual assault survivors respond to the treatment of sexual assault survivors in Jessica Jones. Personally, I am enjoying the show tremendously (I'm on ep8 now!) and none of the wider media or other criticisms are really resonating with me. I'm very happy with the show so far.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:45 PM on November 23, 2015
posted by DarlingBri at 2:45 PM on November 23, 2015
Has there been a lot of widespread criticism? As far as I can see the reception has been pretty much rapturous.
posted by Justinian at 1:33 PM on November 24, 2015
posted by Justinian at 1:33 PM on November 24, 2015
On Jessica Jones and Its Presentation of Manipulation and Control
posted by homunculus at 5:49 PM on November 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 5:49 PM on November 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Jessica Jones Review: Episodes 1-4, 5-9, 10-13
Marvel/Netflix’s game-changing ‘Jessica Jones': A fanboy’s five-point review
Some Initial Thoughts Upon Finishing Marvel’s Jessica Jones
12 Things We Loved About Jessica Jones (And 4 We Didn't)
6 Things That Bugged Me About Marvel’s Jessica Jones
Jessica Jones is a Primer on Gaslighting, and How to Protect Yourself Against It
What Rape Apologists Need to Learn From Jessica Jones
So You Married a Supervillain: Watching Jessica Jones as a Trauma Survivor
We Don’t Need Another Hero: How Netflix’s Jessica Jones Saved My Life
All the Connections to the Marvel Universe You May Have Missed in Jessica Jones
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:33 PM on December 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Marvel/Netflix’s game-changing ‘Jessica Jones': A fanboy’s five-point review
Some Initial Thoughts Upon Finishing Marvel’s Jessica Jones
12 Things We Loved About Jessica Jones (And 4 We Didn't)
6 Things That Bugged Me About Marvel’s Jessica Jones
Jessica Jones is a Primer on Gaslighting, and How to Protect Yourself Against It
What Rape Apologists Need to Learn From Jessica Jones
So You Married a Supervillain: Watching Jessica Jones as a Trauma Survivor
We Don’t Need Another Hero: How Netflix’s Jessica Jones Saved My Life
All the Connections to the Marvel Universe You May Have Missed in Jessica Jones
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:33 PM on December 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sure!
Jessica Jones Does Not Respect Doors (Ep. 1-2)
Jessica Jones Can’t Have Nice Things (Ep. 3)
Jessica Jones Can’t Have Nice Things (Ep. 4-5)
Jessica Jones is Her Own Worst Enemy (Ep. 6)
Jessica Jones Wants You To Do The Hero Thing (Ep. 7-8)
Jessica Jones Takes Control… (Ep. 9-10)
Patsy’s Gonna Save You, Jessica Jones (Ep. 11)
Jessica Jones is Uniquely Qualified (Ep. 12-13)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:21 PM on December 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Jessica Jones Does Not Respect Doors (Ep. 1-2)
Jessica Jones Can’t Have Nice Things (Ep. 3)
Jessica Jones Can’t Have Nice Things (Ep. 4-5)
Jessica Jones is Her Own Worst Enemy (Ep. 6)
Jessica Jones Wants You To Do The Hero Thing (Ep. 7-8)
Jessica Jones Takes Control… (Ep. 9-10)
Patsy’s Gonna Save You, Jessica Jones (Ep. 11)
Jessica Jones is Uniquely Qualified (Ep. 12-13)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:21 PM on December 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
i loved how early in the season Jessica is just kind of always casually breaking things cause she's not great at being careful with her superpowers but also he's not weirded out by it cause clearly she's broken off that door knob like 20 times allready?
It's just a great detail and a kind of callback to the famous world of cardboard superman thing and how much constant, low level effort it takes him not accidently break things.
posted by The Whelk at 8:10 PM on December 18, 2015
It's just a great detail and a kind of callback to the famous world of cardboard superman thing and how much constant, low level effort it takes him not accidently break things.
posted by The Whelk at 8:10 PM on December 18, 2015
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posted by Sys Rq at 6:04 PM on November 19, 2015 [1 favorite]