Guess I have a new show to watch
December 22, 2015 7:55 AM Subscribe
You're the Worst does not suggest depression can be defeated. It suggests, instead, that it can be lived with. Todd VanDerWerff, Culture Editor for Vox as well as AV Club reviewer, explains why the show You're the Worst understands the relationship between him and his wife.
Well, I've been living with deep, chronic depression for around fifty years now, so it's certainly possible. I kept seeing the ads for this show and was very interested, but I just forgot about it, FXX being out in the hinterlands of my cable package. I'll have to catch-up with it via On Demand. Thanks, Kitteh, for reminding me about it!
posted by Thorzdad at 8:07 AM on December 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 8:07 AM on December 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Depending on your point of view, You're the Worst dedicating a substantial part of its second season to examining Gretchen's clinical depression has either been a masterstroke or something that has tanked a once funny, charming show.Yeah, it's hilarious when we see these people putting the "fun" in "dysfunctional", but why they gotta show the bad parts of it? Those latter people who think this somehow ruined the show instead of elevating it into something fucking amazing are the titular Worst.
posted by Etrigan at 8:11 AM on December 22, 2015 [9 favorites]
As someone that suffers from depression it is usually difficult to watch these sorts of shows because they depress the fuck out of me or turn it into something shiny and fun. Neither of which I really want to engage in. So your "Silver Linings Playbook" or "Gardenstate" style show where all you need is to find someone as nutty as you don't work for me, neither do the shows where everyone comes out and says, "That's so realistic!" If I want depression I can stay in bed. Give me "Guardians of the Galaxy." Don't get me wrong. I am grateful shows like this exist and think it's great fodder for storylines, but it is tiresome whenever someone finds out your have depression they say, "Have you seen…"
posted by cjorgensen at 8:19 AM on December 22, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 8:19 AM on December 22, 2015 [14 favorites]
Depression: the unlikely guest star of the year's most interesting TV
posted by Artw at 8:30 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 8:30 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm coming off an unpleasant depressive cycle recently, but in doing so, I spent a lot of time hiding it from people because my brain goes "Hey, who cares that you're miserable and crying inside? No one!" Coupled with a series of manic periods to go with this and I guess I'm saying that reading this hits somewhere familiar. My husband is the best person in the world but I think both of us wanting me (especially me) going on meds has us thinking it will be the cure-all for everything wrong inside me. It isn't. I live with what I have and a lot of times I get mad that it isn't fair that my brain chemistry fucks with me every chance it gets. But I am a lot smarter about it now than I was, say, ten years ago. I often opt for light entertainment too, but I am glad shows are trying to deal with depression in a more straightforward manner.
posted by Kitteh at 8:39 AM on December 22, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:39 AM on December 22, 2015 [9 favorites]
> If I want depression I can stay in bed.
I can watch and enjoy shows (Bojack Horseman, for one) with/about/featuring characters suffering from depression, but I know where you're coming from. My wife and I gave up on The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones because damn, the world is grim enough as it is.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:41 AM on December 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I can watch and enjoy shows (Bojack Horseman, for one) with/about/featuring characters suffering from depression, but I know where you're coming from. My wife and I gave up on The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones because damn, the world is grim enough as it is.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:41 AM on December 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
After the first season of this had it's run, I wasn't sure where else the characters could go: yeah, it's interesting and fun to watch two misanthropes gradually soften to each other and eventually discover that they really do want to be human after all, but then what? I assumed that their living together would somewhat necessarily bring the plot lines in line with more traditional sitcom territory (Someone important is coming for dinner! Sharing a bathroom is gross!). But this? Put me in with the masterstroke folks. This continues to be one of my favorite shows to watch, and not because I know I'll be guaranteed a laugh, either.
posted by Gilbert at 8:45 AM on December 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Gilbert at 8:45 AM on December 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Reading that review both intrigued and terrified me. Can someone who has watched this tell me, how much of this show is cringe comedy? If it's not much, I think this is something I should watch. If it is a lot, I'm going to have to give it a pass, as feeling embarrassed on behalf of people who do things that I've seen before is not something I want.
posted by Hactar at 8:56 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Hactar at 8:56 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think any of it qualifies as cringe comedy, really. It's not cartoonish, but it doesn't have that hyper-naturalized confessional style. The characters do and say mean things at times, but it's not pitched in a tone where you're supposed to squirm as you watch.
posted by superfluousm at 9:02 AM on December 22, 2015
posted by superfluousm at 9:02 AM on December 22, 2015
Can someone who has watched this tell me, how much of this show is cringe comedy?
I hate cringe comedy as well, but I love this show. There's not really that much where you're just expected to laugh at how horrible someone is being in and of itself -- they're horrible people, but they're funny about it.
posted by Etrigan at 9:03 AM on December 22, 2015
I hate cringe comedy as well, but I love this show. There's not really that much where you're just expected to laugh at how horrible someone is being in and of itself -- they're horrible people, but they're funny about it.
posted by Etrigan at 9:03 AM on December 22, 2015
Meds were good enough, until they weren't, and so one is resigned to living with it, knowing that the tarry black pit is a temporary thing and that the usual grey burden of life will return in a week or two. Until it doesn't, I guess, but perhaps by that point one will be so old and hopefully so cancerous or dementiaed that the permanent solution is acceptable.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:08 AM on December 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 9:08 AM on December 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Don't think I could watch, but even though there are problematic aspects to putting depression to the service of comedic/satiric/whatever, I'm all for anything that increases any semblance of awareness that depression as a thing -- as an actual condition -- exists and that it's not just some made-up/psychosomatic/malingering BS that we who carry its load are foisting on all the "happy" "normal" "[insert awful, patronizing non-depressive descriptor here]".
posted by blucevalo at 9:08 AM on December 22, 2015
posted by blucevalo at 9:08 AM on December 22, 2015
Give me "Guardians of the Galaxy."
Which has one of my favorite lines about living with depression.
"Everybody's got dead people! But it makes no excuse to letting everyone else around get killed along the way!"
posted by teleri025 at 9:08 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Which has one of my favorite lines about living with depression.
"Everybody's got dead people! But it makes no excuse to letting everyone else around get killed along the way!"
posted by teleri025 at 9:08 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's really interesting to me how this has turned around in the last few years. I've not watched the show featured in the review, but I'm a bit fond of Elementary. On the one hand, Sherlock drags himself into meetings and friendships, not because they give him joy, but because it's the process. And on the other hand, there's an episode where they rush off to interview a suspect with a history of paranoid schizophrenia. The suspect is perfectly lucid, compliant with treatment, and gives a perfectly rational confession and motivation for the murders.
I just finished Jessica Jones, where most of the major characters experience some sort of major trauma, but pick themselves (or each other) up and get on with living to different degrees. Interesting times indeed.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:40 AM on December 22, 2015
I just finished Jessica Jones, where most of the major characters experience some sort of major trauma, but pick themselves (or each other) up and get on with living to different degrees. Interesting times indeed.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:40 AM on December 22, 2015
My wife and I gave up on The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones because damn, the world is grim enough as it is.
That's funny, I watch them for the exact opposite reason - to remind me that no matter how heavy daily life might seem, it could always be so much worse.
Although I still have to take GOT in small doses, damn.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:53 AM on December 22, 2015
That's funny, I watch them for the exact opposite reason - to remind me that no matter how heavy daily life might seem, it could always be so much worse.
Although I still have to take GOT in small doses, damn.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:53 AM on December 22, 2015
Oh,I loved this article's discussion of terrifying depression rage. When I am deep in it I am numb AND mean and I am a ghastly dangerous beast with no filter and an unending tank of cruelty to dump on anyone who loves me, to punish them for loving me, because being loved is the obligation that keeps me from ever ending it. And there is my kind and rational husband, hating every minute of it but enduring because he can see real me superimposed over sick me.
It's a generous gift to love someone who is sometimes sick even when the medicine works and the coping mechanisms have been learned and are usually successfully deployed. I appreciate these representations of our experiences because they shed some light on the question I always ask myself when I'm hurting ("why would anyone stay through this?")
posted by Pardon Our Dust at 10:40 AM on December 22, 2015 [12 favorites]
It's a generous gift to love someone who is sometimes sick even when the medicine works and the coping mechanisms have been learned and are usually successfully deployed. I appreciate these representations of our experiences because they shed some light on the question I always ask myself when I'm hurting ("why would anyone stay through this?")
posted by Pardon Our Dust at 10:40 AM on December 22, 2015 [12 favorites]
When I am deep in it I am numb AND mean and I am a ghastly dangerous beast with no filter and an unending tank of cruelty to dump on anyone who loves me, to punish them for loving me, because being loved is the obligation that keeps me from ever ending it
There is a part of me whom I call Dark Kitteh who becomes this internally when I too am deep in it. So far I've had the good sense of mind to keep it buttoned precisely because I am afraid that if I let her out when it's that bad, I will lose my spouse.
posted by Kitteh at 10:43 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is a part of me whom I call Dark Kitteh who becomes this internally when I too am deep in it. So far I've had the good sense of mind to keep it buttoned precisely because I am afraid that if I let her out when it's that bad, I will lose my spouse.
posted by Kitteh at 10:43 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Speaking only from my own experience, my husband and I have been together 15 years now (we met the first week of college) and he knew me long before I was medicated or therapied. I don't honestly think I'd be alive if he hadn't met terrible me, said "woah lady you don't have to live like this" and helped me find help.
Hugs.
posted by Pardon Our Dust at 10:54 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hugs.
posted by Pardon Our Dust at 10:54 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Tough crowd.
Life is absurd and so is depression. This show gets that without a) losing affection for its characters b) being any less honest.
Can completely get why portrayal here could be too raw/dark to be enjoyable, but for me there's a kind of companionship - stuff can get shit but at least you ain't the only one.
posted by litleozy at 12:50 PM on December 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Life is absurd and so is depression. This show gets that without a) losing affection for its characters b) being any less honest.
Can completely get why portrayal here could be too raw/dark to be enjoyable, but for me there's a kind of companionship - stuff can get shit but at least you ain't the only one.
posted by litleozy at 12:50 PM on December 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
My wife suffers from clinical depression, a condition that went into overdrive when she hit fifty. And she's married to a somewhat self-involved ADHD poster child. So the article hit home like a sledgehammer, again and again. Thank you so much for posting this. I'll share it with the woman I love.
[I tried to check out episodes of You're the Worst online. Oops. FX has this ridiculous "enter the name of your cable provider" restriction that doesn't work with some rural telephone cooperatives. Why why why do these content providers always force us to the Dark Side of the Internet, where torrents and malware do play?]
posted by Ber at 5:41 PM on December 22, 2015
[I tried to check out episodes of You're the Worst online. Oops. FX has this ridiculous "enter the name of your cable provider" restriction that doesn't work with some rural telephone cooperatives. Why why why do these content providers always force us to the Dark Side of the Internet, where torrents and malware do play?]
posted by Ber at 5:41 PM on December 22, 2015
one of the difficult things about depression is how isolating it is, because when you are in the pit your perceptions are so warped and you do feel you are completely alone and that no one could ever understand. threads like this always blow my mind. there are so many of us!!! so many people are suffering with depression. its kind of stunning. I mean, what is wrong with our world, or our lives? it must be something, right? this can't be the way life is supposed to be...
posted by supermedusa at 6:00 PM on December 22, 2015
posted by supermedusa at 6:00 PM on December 22, 2015
Tough crowd.
Seems like a few people are glomming onto the depression angle without having seen YTW. The show isn't about depression, though that's an element in it, one which it portrays well (meaning, it isn't insulting about it) while also having other plot/story elements. It's also pretty funny if you can realize that it is fiction so these assholes being assholes are actually very hilarious if also the worst.
posted by axiom at 7:55 PM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seems like a few people are glomming onto the depression angle without having seen YTW. The show isn't about depression, though that's an element in it, one which it portrays well (meaning, it isn't insulting about it) while also having other plot/story elements. It's also pretty funny if you can realize that it is fiction so these assholes being assholes are actually very hilarious if also the worst.
posted by axiom at 7:55 PM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I really need to watch more YTW. I saw the first couple of episodes with my ex-with-benefits shortly after we watched Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolfe from the viewpoint where it's a romantic comedy about very, very terrible people. The depression angle for the second season sounds brilliant, and all too close to home - a lot of why we see something of our relationship in WAoVW? and YTW is that they're about people who are very smart, but also often rather mean, and have some deep secret sorrows that a lot of the mean comes from.
(We also find that being a special sort of comedy asshole to each other makes it a lot easier to not be actual assholes to each other, or to other people.)
posted by egypturnash at 11:55 PM on December 22, 2015
(We also find that being a special sort of comedy asshole to each other makes it a lot easier to not be actual assholes to each other, or to other people.)
posted by egypturnash at 11:55 PM on December 22, 2015
Completely agree axiom, 2/3s of the show have been about horrible people (like you and me) being genuinely funny rather than big black Depression, it's got more in common with Always Sunny than anything.
posted by litleozy at 2:58 AM on December 23, 2015
posted by litleozy at 2:58 AM on December 23, 2015
I've dealt with chronic depression for over a decade now. I'll only comment on the article since I have no intention of watching the show: like cjorgensen, if I want to ruminate on depression and its aspects and its effects, I can just lie in bed and do nothing.
The author is an incredible writer and that was an incredible article. That would have taken a large amount of empathy and emotional effort to write, so I respect the contribution and want to say so.
One thing that struck me about the author's description of living with someone with depression is his wife's tendency to "turn into a hurricane." That hits really close to home. I remember one evening a long time ago where my brother was sitting at the bench in the kitchen. I was standing opposite him and he made some trivial comment, I can't remember what. An appropriate emotional response would have been to raise my eyebrows, perhaps tell him "that's a bit silly." Instead, all my internal emotional turmoil and disgust at my own instability was unleashed, and he got (I think) a middle finger and several sentences of cutting sarcasm. He was taken aback and clearly hurt. That still stings, because my brother has the personality of a golden retriever, and afterwards I was left feeling I'd just maliciously hurt a puppy. I think that was the first time I realized clearly and in as many words that my behavior didn't make sense even to me.
The other thing that's really on the money is the statement about depression having no resolution, but that it's possible to learn to live with it. I almost never turn into a hurricane anymore, except in situations of really severe injustice, or when forced to spend extended time around my family. I can honestly say now that if my depression never gets any better than this I'll be ok with it, though of course any improvement is good.
Anyway. Have a good day / night y'all. I'm off to watch the Sopranos, which apparently deals with this stuff in a less direct (and hopefully sillier) way.
posted by iffthen at 3:48 AM on December 23, 2015
The author is an incredible writer and that was an incredible article. That would have taken a large amount of empathy and emotional effort to write, so I respect the contribution and want to say so.
One thing that struck me about the author's description of living with someone with depression is his wife's tendency to "turn into a hurricane." That hits really close to home. I remember one evening a long time ago where my brother was sitting at the bench in the kitchen. I was standing opposite him and he made some trivial comment, I can't remember what. An appropriate emotional response would have been to raise my eyebrows, perhaps tell him "that's a bit silly." Instead, all my internal emotional turmoil and disgust at my own instability was unleashed, and he got (I think) a middle finger and several sentences of cutting sarcasm. He was taken aback and clearly hurt. That still stings, because my brother has the personality of a golden retriever, and afterwards I was left feeling I'd just maliciously hurt a puppy. I think that was the first time I realized clearly and in as many words that my behavior didn't make sense even to me.
The other thing that's really on the money is the statement about depression having no resolution, but that it's possible to learn to live with it. I almost never turn into a hurricane anymore, except in situations of really severe injustice, or when forced to spend extended time around my family. I can honestly say now that if my depression never gets any better than this I'll be ok with it, though of course any improvement is good.
Anyway. Have a good day / night y'all. I'm off to watch the Sopranos, which apparently deals with this stuff in a less direct (and hopefully sillier) way.
posted by iffthen at 3:48 AM on December 23, 2015
Watched both seasons of this show over the holiday, and as a person who has suffered from clinical depression for decades, it's absolutely brilliant. I don't think I've seen a better or more fearless depiction of this kind of depression on screen before. If you're on the fence, I'd lean heavily to checking it out. It's representational in a way that is very satisfying, to me at least.
posted by Errant at 8:43 PM on December 26, 2015
posted by Errant at 8:43 PM on December 26, 2015
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posted by saulgoodman at 8:02 AM on December 22, 2015