At Baylor, More Than A Falling Starr
May 26, 2016 10:58 AM Subscribe
Baylor University has fired football coach Art Briles and demoted university president Kenneth Starr upon receipt of an independent report detailing how the football program concealed rape, sexual abuse, and domestic violence accusations against Baylor football players. The announcement has come as a shock, as it had seemed that Starr would be the scapegoat for the scandal, with his demotion used to protect Briles, the most successful coach in the school's history. However, increased media scrutiny due to the 2016 campaign season bringing up Starr's role in the Whitewater investigation, drawing greater attention to what happened at Baylor.
None of the articles linked mentions the election. So I'm not seeing where the framing that this is in reaction to the election comes from. The fact that Starr was getting fired for hiding sexual abuse certainly had its karmic justice, but the move to also fire Briles seems to have come more from the depth and awfulness of the actions and findings, not because Starr once investigated Clinton.
posted by chris24 at 11:09 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by chris24 at 11:09 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Overheard on the radio just now regarding this firing:
"Isn't this why we have a justice system? He shouldn't be fired for what is essentially a criminal matter."
Heard the same nonsense when the Penn St. Sandusky story broke.
So sports fan when your exalted leader essentially is the head of a rape factory the fact that he wins X amount of games a year and generates Y amount of $ won't save his job. And that is a good thing.
posted by NervousVarun at 11:13 AM on May 26, 2016 [20 favorites]
"Isn't this why we have a justice system? He shouldn't be fired for what is essentially a criminal matter."
Heard the same nonsense when the Penn St. Sandusky story broke.
So sports fan when your exalted leader essentially is the head of a rape factory the fact that he wins X amount of games a year and generates Y amount of $ won't save his job. And that is a good thing.
posted by NervousVarun at 11:13 AM on May 26, 2016 [20 favorites]
Some small school will hire Briles in a year or so, he'll do well there, and be back at a top program in a few years and we'll be reading stories about how this changed him for the better, etc. etc.
What is dead may never die.
posted by Fister Roboto at 11:14 AM on May 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
What is dead may never die.
posted by Fister Roboto at 11:14 AM on May 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is a much different outcome than I expected yesterday, and obviously the one I'd want to see. I am disappointed that there doesn't seem to be any report coming out other than the "Findings of Fact" which, though important, really doesn't name any specifics.
But if they did that, they'd probably have a lot more housekeeping to do.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:16 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
But if they did that, they'd probably have a lot more housekeeping to do.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:16 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Fister, I agree to a degree. He'll be back at a Power 5 conference in a few years after an exile at a Group of 5 school. But after Paterno and this, I don't think he'll be able to get a job at an elite or well-regarded P5. He'll have to go to a struggling or mid-tier P5 and turn it around.
posted by chris24 at 11:18 AM on May 26, 2016
posted by chris24 at 11:18 AM on May 26, 2016
A quick, complete guide to the Baylor football sex-assault scandal (Dallas Morning News Aril 14) looks pretty good.
That must have been a weird week in Waco. In January Briles owned the city.
posted by bukvich at 11:24 AM on May 26, 2016
That must have been a weird week in Waco. In January Briles owned the city.
posted by bukvich at 11:24 AM on May 26, 2016
I'm pretty surprised to see this. This guy literally put Baylor on the football map. They were a laughingstock before he got there, and now they're considered a top program, with a brand new stadium and a Heisman trophy. Those are not insignificant facts in Texas. Kudos to the trustees for taking a stand and making an unpopular decision.
When I first started hearing about these sexual assaults, I kept thinking about the fact that Baylor did not allow dancing on campus until 1996. Sexual assault is jarring anywhere, but I would imagine it's particularly hard to deal with in a culture like that.
---
"Ken Starr: Duke Law's second most famous graduate, ladies and gentlemen!
Tricky Dick Nixon is #1.
Tucker Max is #3."
It's not often that Tucker Max is responsible for *improving* the reputation of your institution.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:26 AM on May 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
When I first started hearing about these sexual assaults, I kept thinking about the fact that Baylor did not allow dancing on campus until 1996. Sexual assault is jarring anywhere, but I would imagine it's particularly hard to deal with in a culture like that.
---
"Ken Starr: Duke Law's second most famous graduate, ladies and gentlemen!
Tricky Dick Nixon is #1.
Tucker Max is #3."
It's not often that Tucker Max is responsible for *improving* the reputation of your institution.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:26 AM on May 26, 2016 [17 favorites]
I recommend this article in Texas Monthly - published in August of last year - or anything by Jessica Luther if you want to read more about this.
The culture of sports, including sports that I enjoy watching and teams I (used to) root for, is broken.
posted by misskaz at 11:28 AM on May 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
The culture of sports, including sports that I enjoy watching and teams I (used to) root for, is broken.
posted by misskaz at 11:28 AM on May 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Here's a timeline of Briles' tenure, with more things coming to light since the April 14th publication of the DMN article.
posted by chris24 at 11:28 AM on May 26, 2016
posted by chris24 at 11:28 AM on May 26, 2016
Any team that has been that bad that long and gets that good that quick has to be playing it fast and loose somewhere. SMU redux...
posted by jim in austin at 11:38 AM on May 26, 2016
posted by jim in austin at 11:38 AM on May 26, 2016
Glad Baylor is taking action. I don't often expect a college to put its principles above its cash-cow football team, but this was the right move. Good for them.
About the post, though:
"However, increased media scrutiny due to the 2016 campaign season bringing up Starr's role in the Whitewater investigation, drawing greater attention to what happened at Baylor."
I agree with chris24. This sentence should be removed from the post. It is completely gratuitous editorializing that has no basis in any of the 3 linked articles. It is also a complete political derail on a topic that has plenty of meat on it. Plus it is a fragment and grammatically meaningless sentence. That kind of editorializing should be left out (and struck out) of posts.
posted by dios at 11:47 AM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
About the post, though:
"However, increased media scrutiny due to the 2016 campaign season bringing up Starr's role in the Whitewater investigation, drawing greater attention to what happened at Baylor."
I agree with chris24. This sentence should be removed from the post. It is completely gratuitous editorializing that has no basis in any of the 3 linked articles. It is also a complete political derail on a topic that has plenty of meat on it. Plus it is a fragment and grammatically meaningless sentence. That kind of editorializing should be left out (and struck out) of posts.
posted by dios at 11:47 AM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Art Briles, when asked about sexual assault allegations against his players:
"Yeah, I'm always concerned anytime that something of that nature transpires," he says. "It's been a process to where we're really doing all we can do to make sure our guys are at the awareness level they need to be at by giving them all the proper training with professionals in those fields to help them to know how to handle themselves at all times. It's a situation where it's a concern. It's something that we're doing with on a daily basis."
Why does any person need "proper training with professionals" to know that it's not okay to rape people? Any love that I had for athletes and professional athletics (and yes, I include the NCAA in that category) has been bled dry over the past couple of years.
It seems like they strap sociopaths into pads, let them run into each other a few hundred times, and then wash their hands of anything that happens off the field until someone rubs their noses in it emphatically enough.
posted by Fister Roboto at 11:48 AM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Yeah, I'm always concerned anytime that something of that nature transpires," he says. "It's been a process to where we're really doing all we can do to make sure our guys are at the awareness level they need to be at by giving them all the proper training with professionals in those fields to help them to know how to handle themselves at all times. It's a situation where it's a concern. It's something that we're doing with on a daily basis."
Why does any person need "proper training with professionals" to know that it's not okay to rape people? Any love that I had for athletes and professional athletics (and yes, I include the NCAA in that category) has been bled dry over the past couple of years.
It seems like they strap sociopaths into pads, let them run into each other a few hundred times, and then wash their hands of anything that happens off the field until someone rubs their noses in it emphatically enough.
posted by Fister Roboto at 11:48 AM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here's an idea: close down the Baylor football program entirely for, say, four years. No coaches on staff, nothing. They can start looking into hiring a new staff only after at least three years are completely up; then that staff can begin planning and recruiting to play the year after that.
Also, no more of this jolly 'we'll investigate our players ourselves' stuff, no more 'report complaints to the university first' --- all complaints and crimes, just like out here in the real world, go straight to the cops. (True, a lot of police departments will still cut the local sports teams a lot of slack, but at least there might be a tiny bit more justice for the victims....)
posted by easily confused at 11:49 AM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, no more of this jolly 'we'll investigate our players ourselves' stuff, no more 'report complaints to the university first' --- all complaints and crimes, just like out here in the real world, go straight to the cops. (True, a lot of police departments will still cut the local sports teams a lot of slack, but at least there might be a tiny bit more justice for the victims....)
posted by easily confused at 11:49 AM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
So now the two things I know about Baylor are this story and that it was illegal to dance on campus until 1996. My low opinion of Baylor -- formed when visiting as a potential student in the early 90s, after having seen the movie Footloose -- remains pretty low, I gotta say.
posted by cubby at 11:58 AM on May 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by cubby at 11:58 AM on May 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Oh yeah, Baylor's also the school where one basketball player murdered another, and then their head coach tried to portray the victim as a drug dealer in an attempt to avoid punishment for an unrelated violation.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:01 PM on May 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 12:01 PM on May 26, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah, was just going to post the murder thing. Which happened in 2003.
posted by chris24 at 12:02 PM on May 26, 2016
posted by chris24 at 12:02 PM on May 26, 2016
I just re-read my comment and got concerned about my word choice when I said: I don't often expect a college to put its principles above its cash-cow football team, but this was the right move. I need to clarify that poorly worded statement. I don't want to anyone to misconstrue the word "expect" and think I meant the standard I hold schools to (e.g., "I expect my son to not throw rocks."). What I meant was I don't usually see colleges put their principles first, so this is unexpected in that sense. I would have bet on them trying to whitewash this more to save Briles who has made them a ton of money. I am glad Baylor surprised me and did the right thing. Hope that clarifies my statement. Sorry.
posted by dios at 12:08 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dios at 12:08 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah, Baylor's also the school where one basketball player murdered another, and then their head coach tried to portray the victim as a drug dealer in an attempt to avoid punishment for an unrelated violation.
That was the men's basketball program, by the way. The women's has won two national championships (2005 & 2012).
posted by Carol Anne at 12:14 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
That was the men's basketball program, by the way. The women's has won two national championships (2005 & 2012).
posted by Carol Anne at 12:14 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh yeah, Baylor's also the school where one basketball player murdered another, and then their head coach tried to portray the victim as a drug dealer in an attempt to avoid punishment for an unrelated violation.
For which the program got what has been called the most severe non-death-penalty NCAA sanction in history, so there's a good chance this will torpedo the football program even beyond not having Briles as coach.
posted by Etrigan at 12:15 PM on May 26, 2016
For which the program got what has been called the most severe non-death-penalty NCAA sanction in history, so there's a good chance this will torpedo the football program even beyond not having Briles as coach.
posted by Etrigan at 12:15 PM on May 26, 2016
Baylor official statement on the firings, the investigation and the incidents.
posted by chris24 at 12:27 PM on May 26, 2016
posted by chris24 at 12:27 PM on May 26, 2016
Which links to the Pepper Hamilton investigation report linked above.
"Football staff conducted their own untrained internal inquiries, outside of policy, which improperly discredited complainants and denied them the right to a fair, impartial and informed investigation."
posted by chris24 at 12:33 PM on May 26, 2016
"Football staff conducted their own untrained internal inquiries, outside of policy, which improperly discredited complainants and denied them the right to a fair, impartial and informed investigation."
posted by chris24 at 12:33 PM on May 26, 2016
That report should be sending multiple people to jail.
posted by kmz at 12:45 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by kmz at 12:45 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does anyone know what the difference is between president and chancellor at Baylor? I know that at some multi-campus university systems, one of them is in charge of a single campus and the other is in charge of the overall system, but Baylor's just the one school, I think.
posted by Etrigan at 12:45 PM on May 26, 2016
posted by Etrigan at 12:45 PM on May 26, 2016
Baylor Admits to Retaliation Against Rape Accuser in Bombshell Report
“Actions by a University administrator within [Baylor University Police Department] and an administrator within an academic program contributed to, and in some instances, accommodated or created a hostile environment, rather than taking action to eliminate a hostile environment,” the report said vaguely but chillingly.
posted by chris24 at 12:47 PM on May 26, 2016
“Actions by a University administrator within [Baylor University Police Department] and an administrator within an academic program contributed to, and in some instances, accommodated or created a hostile environment, rather than taking action to eliminate a hostile environment,” the report said vaguely but chillingly.
posted by chris24 at 12:47 PM on May 26, 2016
This is what Baylor was saying yesterday afternoon, when the first reports about Starr's demotion were circulating:
The Baylor Board of Regents continues its work to review the findings of the Pepper Hamilton investigation and we anticipate further communication will come after the Board completes its deliberations. We will not respond to rumors, speculation or reports based on unnamed sources, but when official news is available, the University will provide it. We expect an announcement by June 3.
It was pretty clear that, up until yesterday, there was a stonewall strategy in place. Yes, Baylor wound up firing Briles, but let's not pretend that was the plan from the get-go.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:56 PM on May 26, 2016
The Baylor Board of Regents continues its work to review the findings of the Pepper Hamilton investigation and we anticipate further communication will come after the Board completes its deliberations. We will not respond to rumors, speculation or reports based on unnamed sources, but when official news is available, the University will provide it. We expect an announcement by June 3.
It was pretty clear that, up until yesterday, there was a stonewall strategy in place. Yes, Baylor wound up firing Briles, but let's not pretend that was the plan from the get-go.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:56 PM on May 26, 2016
Have you read the report? No way he was surviving that. Sure Starr's dismissal leaked first and some thought or hoped Briles might survive. But the report is damning.
posted by chris24 at 12:58 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 12:58 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
How important are these moneymaking sports programs to universities, really? To education, to research, to learning?
The Flutie Effect (a.k.a. "The Dynamic Advertising Effect of Collegiate Athletics" (43-page PDF)):
The Flutie Effect (a.k.a. "The Dynamic Advertising Effect of Collegiate Athletics" (43-page PDF)):
His findings include:posted by Etrigan at 1:29 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
- When a school rises from mediocre to great on the gridiron, applications increase by 17.7 percent. To attain similar effects, a school has to either lower tuition by 3.8 percent or increase the quality of its education by recruiting higher-quality faculty, who are paid 5.1 percent more than their average peers in the academic labor market.
- Students with lower-than-average SAT scores tended to have a stronger preference for schools known for athletic success, while students with higher SAT scores preferred institutions with greater academic quality. Also, students with lower academic prowess valued the success of intercollegiate athletics for longer periods of time than the high SAT achievers.
- Even students with high SAT scores are significantly affected by athletic success—one of the biggest surprises from the research, Chung says.
- Schools become more academically selective with athletic success.
qcubed: "Because I just don't see any value. At least none that outweighs the costs."
The "costs" are millions of dollars in net revenue, not to mention the marketing value of having your university discussed ad nauseum on a weekly if not daily basis by sports fans (many of whom are making decisions about where to matriculate) all over the country.
posted by Rock Steady at 1:31 PM on May 26, 2016
The "costs" are millions of dollars in net revenue, not to mention the marketing value of having your university discussed ad nauseum on a weekly if not daily basis by sports fans (many of whom are making decisions about where to matriculate) all over the country.
posted by Rock Steady at 1:31 PM on May 26, 2016
Having graduated from Boston College 20 years ago, and having a child looking for colleges now, I am amazed when I walk around that campus and realize that B.C. essentially doesn't have to offer aid, given how badly the potential applicants want to be there. They are happy to pay north of $50k per year for the privilege.
And to think how much different it was there as recently as the 1980s. Blows my mind.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:33 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
And to think how much different it was there as recently as the 1980s. Blows my mind.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:33 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Have you read the report? No way he was surviving that.
But here's the thing - they didn't have to release the report. If it had just been the local and sports media looking in, the stonewall probably would have worked. But Trump digging Whitewater up got the national press looking at Starr's latest exploits. From what I'm hearing, it was Starr himself that pushed for disclosure and action, and I bet he did so because he knew the media focus would be too much.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:36 PM on May 26, 2016
But here's the thing - they didn't have to release the report. If it had just been the local and sports media looking in, the stonewall probably would have worked. But Trump digging Whitewater up got the national press looking at Starr's latest exploits. From what I'm hearing, it was Starr himself that pushed for disclosure and action, and I bet he did so because he knew the media focus would be too much.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:36 PM on May 26, 2016
"Schools become more academically selective with athletic success"
I've watched this happen at my alma mater (roll damn tide).
But football is still poison.
posted by uberchet at 1:46 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've watched this happen at my alma mater (roll damn tide).
But football is still poison.
posted by uberchet at 1:46 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sports at any Cost: How college students are bankrolling the athletics arms race
Comparing university subsidies between Sports Programs and Libraries
The Cartel: Inside the Rise and Imminent Fall of the NCAA
posted by lalochezia at 1:46 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Comparing university subsidies between Sports Programs and Libraries
The Cartel: Inside the Rise and Imminent Fall of the NCAA
posted by lalochezia at 1:46 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
They had to release the report because the business of college is bigger than the business of football. This article from Andy Staples at SI a week ago turned out to be pretty accurate. Even forgetting the moral issues on this, from a purely practical perspective Briles needed to go.
"The business of college football is big, but the business of college dwarfs it. This isn’t only a football issue. This isn’t only an athletic department issue. This is a university issue, and that brings the interests, financial and otherwise, of the business of college into play. Those interests will almost always trump football wins and losses. As Baylor’s Board of Regents considers how it will respond to the report it commissioned from a Philadelphia law firm on these issues, it must wrestle with something much bigger than football. It must consider this question: Would I let my daughter go to Baylor?"
posted by chris24 at 1:49 PM on May 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
"The business of college football is big, but the business of college dwarfs it. This isn’t only a football issue. This isn’t only an athletic department issue. This is a university issue, and that brings the interests, financial and otherwise, of the business of college into play. Those interests will almost always trump football wins and losses. As Baylor’s Board of Regents considers how it will respond to the report it commissioned from a Philadelphia law firm on these issues, it must wrestle with something much bigger than football. It must consider this question: Would I let my daughter go to Baylor?"
posted by chris24 at 1:49 PM on May 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
To say he only got fired because of some past political bullshit and not because of his awful decisions and actions is to dismiss those awful decisions and actions and the victims they hurt.
posted by chris24 at 1:53 PM on May 26, 2016
posted by chris24 at 1:53 PM on May 26, 2016
Coming from Texas Baylor really isn't in a position to not deal with this issue in a very public way once the reports got out so I wouldn't really describe this as something where the Baylor administration did something particularly brave.
While athletes and athletics departments are often a law unto themselves at many schools and apparently even at Baylor the reality is that most universities particularly mid-range private schools like Baylor really need parents to feel safe sending their kids to school at your campus and having very public reports of rape and sexual assault basically getting abetted by the school makes it a very difficult decision to send your daughter to Waco. Keep in mind that for many potential Texas undergrads Waco and Baylor are considered to be safe respectable schools (Baylor being perceived as a nice safe place to send your baptist son or daughter so they avoid the debauchery of DFW, Austin or Houston).
I do think that it's best to act in a completely transparent way when there is a complete failure of a program to effectively govern itself as the Baylor football team obviously has but I also think that more and more school administrators need to realize that while successful football programs are good for alumni giving the lifeblood of a campus environment are it's students and if the school can't or won't value student safety over football prowess priorities are seriously out of wack.
posted by vuron at 1:57 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
While athletes and athletics departments are often a law unto themselves at many schools and apparently even at Baylor the reality is that most universities particularly mid-range private schools like Baylor really need parents to feel safe sending their kids to school at your campus and having very public reports of rape and sexual assault basically getting abetted by the school makes it a very difficult decision to send your daughter to Waco. Keep in mind that for many potential Texas undergrads Waco and Baylor are considered to be safe respectable schools (Baylor being perceived as a nice safe place to send your baptist son or daughter so they avoid the debauchery of DFW, Austin or Houston).
I do think that it's best to act in a completely transparent way when there is a complete failure of a program to effectively govern itself as the Baylor football team obviously has but I also think that more and more school administrators need to realize that while successful football programs are good for alumni giving the lifeblood of a campus environment are it's students and if the school can't or won't value student safety over football prowess priorities are seriously out of wack.
posted by vuron at 1:57 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Jason Lindo, Peter Siminski, and Isaac Swenson have a manuscript on the effect of Division I football games on rapes in the city that is worth contemplating in light of this scandal (here).
"College Party Culture and Sexual Assault"
Abstract
This paper considers the degree to which events that intensify partying increase sexual assault. Estimates are based on panel data from campus and local law-enforcement agencies and an identification strategy that exploits plausibly random variation in the timing of Division 1 football games. The estimates indicate that these events increase daily reports of rape with 17–24 year old victims by 28 percent. The effects are driven largely by 17–24 year old offenders and by offenders unknown to the victim, but we also find significant effects on incidents involving offenders of other ages and on incidents involving offenders known to the victim.
posted by scunning at 2:00 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
"College Party Culture and Sexual Assault"
Abstract
This paper considers the degree to which events that intensify partying increase sexual assault. Estimates are based on panel data from campus and local law-enforcement agencies and an identification strategy that exploits plausibly random variation in the timing of Division 1 football games. The estimates indicate that these events increase daily reports of rape with 17–24 year old victims by 28 percent. The effects are driven largely by 17–24 year old offenders and by offenders unknown to the victim, but we also find significant effects on incidents involving offenders of other ages and on incidents involving offenders known to the victim.
posted by scunning at 2:00 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Chris24 beat me to the core point which is yeah "Do I feel safe sending my daughter to Baylor?" For schools like Baylor if more and more parents feel like the answer is no then that puts the entire school at a massive amount of risk.
I never felt like that was ever the question in the back of people's minds regarding Penn State because no matter what there were always going to be a ton of students coming back no matter what.
I think the last time I remember a program getting completely out of control similar to this were some of the issues regarding Miami and Oklahoma back in the 80s and even then I am not sure that either program going off the rails represented as serious a threat to the underlying stability of the school like these revelations with Baylor.
posted by vuron at 2:03 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I never felt like that was ever the question in the back of people's minds regarding Penn State because no matter what there were always going to be a ton of students coming back no matter what.
I think the last time I remember a program getting completely out of control similar to this were some of the issues regarding Miami and Oklahoma back in the 80s and even then I am not sure that either program going off the rails represented as serious a threat to the underlying stability of the school like these revelations with Baylor.
posted by vuron at 2:03 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Anecdata:
I worked for a university that charged all students a "student activity fee". This was almost always increased each year and I don't remember how much it was, but students found it a bit of a burden. About 90 percent of it went to support the basketball and football teams - including the gyms and workout rooms that were closed to most of the students. There was other equipment available, but it was usually very busy and hard to access.
One of the un-graduated football players who'd been hired by the NFL gave the university some money. In exchange he got a degree and they made rather a fuss over him at graduation. The money was earmarked for a specific football project and was all spent on that project. But by the time the project was completed, the university had spent almost as much as he had given on support activities for the project - money that came out of the student activity fees and general funding.
I also sat for a while on the "athletics oversight committee" and it was very interesting - though a bit weird, questions about athletics were from faculty were discouraged (and with a major administrator with input into tenure and promotion sitting on the committee it was clear that serious questions were unwise). Answers were often less than informative. The one student on the committee was an athlete. It was mostly a place to hear about who had won what and how the teams were responding to NCAA violations (including one where about a dozen people were flown somewhere for a week for a hearing - on the university dime). Learned a bit though - such as one day they told us pretty specifically how to work around NCAA rules.
posted by Death and Gravity at 2:06 PM on May 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
I worked for a university that charged all students a "student activity fee". This was almost always increased each year and I don't remember how much it was, but students found it a bit of a burden. About 90 percent of it went to support the basketball and football teams - including the gyms and workout rooms that were closed to most of the students. There was other equipment available, but it was usually very busy and hard to access.
One of the un-graduated football players who'd been hired by the NFL gave the university some money. In exchange he got a degree and they made rather a fuss over him at graduation. The money was earmarked for a specific football project and was all spent on that project. But by the time the project was completed, the university had spent almost as much as he had given on support activities for the project - money that came out of the student activity fees and general funding.
I also sat for a while on the "athletics oversight committee" and it was very interesting - though a bit weird, questions about athletics were from faculty were discouraged (and with a major administrator with input into tenure and promotion sitting on the committee it was clear that serious questions were unwise). Answers were often less than informative. The one student on the committee was an athlete. It was mostly a place to hear about who had won what and how the teams were responding to NCAA violations (including one where about a dozen people were flown somewhere for a week for a hearing - on the university dime). Learned a bit though - such as one day they told us pretty specifically how to work around NCAA rules.
posted by Death and Gravity at 2:06 PM on May 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
Here's an idea: close down the Baylor football program entirely for, say, four years. No coaches on staff, nothing. They can start looking into hiring a new staff only after at least three years are completely up; then that staff can begin planning and recruiting to play the year after that.
NCAA Death Penalty
posted by rhizome at 2:13 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
NCAA Death Penalty
posted by rhizome at 2:13 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is going to cramp the Fixer Upper home remodeling show. Both hosts are Baylor alumni and they have had Baylor sport faculty/staff as clients. The show really shows Waco and Baylor in a positive light.
posted by jadepearl at 2:27 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by jadepearl at 2:27 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
But Trump digging Whitewater up got the national press looking at Starr's latest exploits. From what I'm hearing, it was Starr himself that pushed for disclosure and action, and I bet he did so because he knew the media focus would be too much.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:36 PM on May 26
No. False. You shouldn't have dropped that turd in the post, and you shouldn't derail your post with it either in the comments.
This was a story at Baylor before Trump even started running for president. There were several lawsuits involving players. Arguably the top Title IX plaintiff's attorney in the country, John Clune, started going after Baylor in August of last year for the Sam Ukwuachu assault. This was on top of the Tevin Elliott issues. Then you had several other allegations including against Baylor's top draftee Shawn Oakman. This "Baptist" school had to do this investigation, and it had nothing to do with Trump digging up Whitewater. That's asinine. Sure it's a witty data point that Starr investigated a rape then but not now, but to suggest that is driving this at any level is just nonsense by people who cannot see past their own obsession with partisan politics.
posted by dios at 2:28 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:36 PM on May 26
No. False. You shouldn't have dropped that turd in the post, and you shouldn't derail your post with it either in the comments.
This was a story at Baylor before Trump even started running for president. There were several lawsuits involving players. Arguably the top Title IX plaintiff's attorney in the country, John Clune, started going after Baylor in August of last year for the Sam Ukwuachu assault. This was on top of the Tevin Elliott issues. Then you had several other allegations including against Baylor's top draftee Shawn Oakman. This "Baptist" school had to do this investigation, and it had nothing to do with Trump digging up Whitewater. That's asinine. Sure it's a witty data point that Starr investigated a rape then but not now, but to suggest that is driving this at any level is just nonsense by people who cannot see past their own obsession with partisan politics.
posted by dios at 2:28 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh, I should add there is one political component to this: several years ago the Obama Administration charged the Department of Education's OCR with being more aggressive in enforcing Title IX and penalizing colleges in the wake of public issues involving rape on college campuses. Colleges are under much greater federal scrutiny by the OCR with stiffer penalties, so there has been political pressure to force colleges and secondary institutions to start taking Title IX seriously in investigating and preventing sexual assault culture on campuses. That's the only political angle here. Not some nonsense about Trump slinging mud.
posted by dios at 2:33 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by dios at 2:33 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Do I feel safe sending my daughter to Baylor?"
Implicit in that question is the assumption that it is still okay to send sons to these schools.
"Do I want my son immersed in a pro rape culture?" just doesn't seem to be a concern.
posted by srboisvert at 2:42 PM on May 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
Implicit in that question is the assumption that it is still okay to send sons to these schools.
"Do I want my son immersed in a pro rape culture?" just doesn't seem to be a concern.
posted by srboisvert at 2:42 PM on May 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
The reality is that Baylor simply wasn't doing their duty in regards to Clery Act reporting. They failed to report even a single sexual assault between 2008-2011 and reported just 12 between 2012 and 2014. They also failed to hire a Title IX coordinator until 2014 even though all schools were sent letter by the Education department suggesting that they do so in 2011.
The reality is that Baylor has likely been underreporting for an extended period of time in a clear violation of their responsibilities under the Clery Act. Honestly the bloodletting should go way way further than just firing Briles and demoting Starr.
But this is Texas where "standing up to Washington" seems to be almost expected so I am not really surprised that Baylor is getting hammered for their lack of reporting.
posted by vuron at 2:45 PM on May 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
The reality is that Baylor has likely been underreporting for an extended period of time in a clear violation of their responsibilities under the Clery Act. Honestly the bloodletting should go way way further than just firing Briles and demoting Starr.
But this is Texas where "standing up to Washington" seems to be almost expected so I am not really surprised that Baylor is getting hammered for their lack of reporting.
posted by vuron at 2:45 PM on May 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
"How important are these moneymaking sports programs to universities, really? To education, to research, to learning? Because I just don't see any value. At least none that outweighs the costs."
In some, rare cases, a successful sports program can permanently vault a college or university into the top academic tier. Applications go way up in the wake of sporting success, which enables you to draw a more selective student body, which can become a self-sustaining improvement in student body SAT scores and selectivity, which is the sort of thing that US News weights heavily in its ranking. The trademarks of top sports schools are worth millions upon millions of yearly revenue to the general fund (not the athletic department), a benefit that is often ignored in "what does sports cost?" calculations. In very top football and basketball programs, they do, indeed, dump funds -- often quite significant funds -- into the rest of the school and help fund the academic portion. (This is like the top ten, though -- most schools lose money in athletics.) For public universities, sports provide an important hedge against states shutting down funding for the university. It's one thing to cut funding to Directional State University until they're on the brink of closure, but to cancel the LSU Tigers' football season? OUTRAGE, of the volume and type that makes legislators raise taxes.
That said, these are benefits that accrue to a very small handful of schools that win the athletics lottery, and that successfully translate that national boost to a scholastic improvement. We have been watching a local private former-college, now-university painfully attempt to climb out of the mid-tier into the second tier or so, by adding prestige-sounding programs and ramping up participation in national prestige academic programs -- but their marketing program to draw more and better students is almost entirely "get to the NCAA March Madness tournament" because they're a decent basketball school. And it's just cheaper and significantly faster to pour money into basketball to try to become a top-tier team than to try to a) hire lots of superstar professors and b) convince media, students, and parents that you've got a lot of really excellent scholarship going on. (Which, despite their best recruiting efforts, they really don't ... superstar professors don't really want to go wait 15 years for a mid-tier to improve itself.) So they see that expensive mid-tier private colleges are struggling and that it's either up to the top tier, or get hella cheaper and become a safety school for kids who can't get into the state system. They choose up, and they choose to pursue it via basketball. (I think they're going to fail and I think they're wasting a lot of money, but that's their business.) There is a rationale, even if it's not a great rationale.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:54 PM on May 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
In some, rare cases, a successful sports program can permanently vault a college or university into the top academic tier. Applications go way up in the wake of sporting success, which enables you to draw a more selective student body, which can become a self-sustaining improvement in student body SAT scores and selectivity, which is the sort of thing that US News weights heavily in its ranking. The trademarks of top sports schools are worth millions upon millions of yearly revenue to the general fund (not the athletic department), a benefit that is often ignored in "what does sports cost?" calculations. In very top football and basketball programs, they do, indeed, dump funds -- often quite significant funds -- into the rest of the school and help fund the academic portion. (This is like the top ten, though -- most schools lose money in athletics.) For public universities, sports provide an important hedge against states shutting down funding for the university. It's one thing to cut funding to Directional State University until they're on the brink of closure, but to cancel the LSU Tigers' football season? OUTRAGE, of the volume and type that makes legislators raise taxes.
That said, these are benefits that accrue to a very small handful of schools that win the athletics lottery, and that successfully translate that national boost to a scholastic improvement. We have been watching a local private former-college, now-university painfully attempt to climb out of the mid-tier into the second tier or so, by adding prestige-sounding programs and ramping up participation in national prestige academic programs -- but their marketing program to draw more and better students is almost entirely "get to the NCAA March Madness tournament" because they're a decent basketball school. And it's just cheaper and significantly faster to pour money into basketball to try to become a top-tier team than to try to a) hire lots of superstar professors and b) convince media, students, and parents that you've got a lot of really excellent scholarship going on. (Which, despite their best recruiting efforts, they really don't ... superstar professors don't really want to go wait 15 years for a mid-tier to improve itself.) So they see that expensive mid-tier private colleges are struggling and that it's either up to the top tier, or get hella cheaper and become a safety school for kids who can't get into the state system. They choose up, and they choose to pursue it via basketball. (I think they're going to fail and I think they're wasting a lot of money, but that's their business.) There is a rationale, even if it's not a great rationale.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:54 PM on May 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
srboisvert- I totally agree but unfortunately more than a few parents seem to operate with different standards depending on whether their child is male or female. Having gone to a different private school in Texas for my undergrad there is very much an attitude of sons being expected to more or less manage their way through college with some "boys being boys" activity being more or less condoned and at the same time crippling daughters with all sorts of destructive behavior norms and then more or less entrusting the college to keep them cocooned in a gilded cage.
They problem is of course that model is horribly sexist and probably hasn't been successful since the 60s (if it was even successful back then).
And let's be perfectly honest if parents were concerned about being immersed in rape culture how many parents would be willing to let their kids enter fraternities where pretty much everything pro-Rape culture dominates social activities.
posted by vuron at 2:57 PM on May 26, 2016
They problem is of course that model is horribly sexist and probably hasn't been successful since the 60s (if it was even successful back then).
And let's be perfectly honest if parents were concerned about being immersed in rape culture how many parents would be willing to let their kids enter fraternities where pretty much everything pro-Rape culture dominates social activities.
posted by vuron at 2:57 PM on May 26, 2016
Yes, there was a story at Baylor - but the question was, who was reporting on it? As the Deadspin piece I posted from yesterday showed, they were fully intending on holding off on making any announcement until June 3rd. And there are other points they made, like that Baylor wasn't on the DoE's radar:
The federal government also can investigate Baylor but, as of the most recently available list, the U.S. Department of Education doesn’t include them as an institution involved in any open investigations. The Office of Civil Rights doesn’t confirm whether or not it receives complaints, and so won’t say whether or not one has been filed against Baylor. The OCR can initiate an investigation proactively—this is known as a “compliance review”—or do a direct investigation in limited circumstances described in its case processing manual.
And that's the weird disjoint - yesterday, the school's saying "nothing until the 3rd", and today heads are rolling. Maybe they just decided to accelerate the schedule, but this came out of nowhere. And the folks at Deadspin make a good argument that what we got today is still a load of bullshit:
You can read the second so-called report, the Board of Regent’s “finding of fact,” here. It contains almost no facts; it has no names, no timelines, no dates, no specific examples; and it has no quotes from anyone who was interviewed or selections from emails or documents that were cited. Yes, it levies some horrifying allegations—that administrators discouraged people from reporting, that there was a failure to respond to reports that were levied, and that in one case “those actions constituted retaliation against a complainant for reporting sexual assault”—but it doesn’t say it in anything more than the broadest possible language.
So you'll pardon me if, with all the sudden reversals and such, that Baylor comes across less like an organization who is looking to come clean, and more like an organization whose hand was forced.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:03 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
The federal government also can investigate Baylor but, as of the most recently available list, the U.S. Department of Education doesn’t include them as an institution involved in any open investigations. The Office of Civil Rights doesn’t confirm whether or not it receives complaints, and so won’t say whether or not one has been filed against Baylor. The OCR can initiate an investigation proactively—this is known as a “compliance review”—or do a direct investigation in limited circumstances described in its case processing manual.
And that's the weird disjoint - yesterday, the school's saying "nothing until the 3rd", and today heads are rolling. Maybe they just decided to accelerate the schedule, but this came out of nowhere. And the folks at Deadspin make a good argument that what we got today is still a load of bullshit:
You can read the second so-called report, the Board of Regent’s “finding of fact,” here. It contains almost no facts; it has no names, no timelines, no dates, no specific examples; and it has no quotes from anyone who was interviewed or selections from emails or documents that were cited. Yes, it levies some horrifying allegations—that administrators discouraged people from reporting, that there was a failure to respond to reports that were levied, and that in one case “those actions constituted retaliation against a complainant for reporting sexual assault”—but it doesn’t say it in anything more than the broadest possible language.
So you'll pardon me if, with all the sudden reversals and such, that Baylor comes across less like an organization who is looking to come clean, and more like an organization whose hand was forced.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:03 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure having a disjointed response to something getting leaked prematurely on something this big is the smoking gun you think it is. And nobody is saying that Briles being fired means everything has been resolved and they've come completely clean. In fact, people here have been saying more heads seem to need to roll. But your repeated insinuation is that it was the election and Trump bringing up Whitewater that is the hand that forced them. And I fail to see any evidence of that.
posted by chris24 at 3:36 PM on May 26, 2016
posted by chris24 at 3:36 PM on May 26, 2016
If anything, the fear of more leaks given the horrific findings in the report seems to be a more logical hand in today's firing.
posted by chris24 at 3:39 PM on May 26, 2016
posted by chris24 at 3:39 PM on May 26, 2016
Not really a factor at Baylor, but for state schools, having a successful athletic program can get you a lot of goodwill from citizens, including those who have no direct ties to the institution. And since the state government has a huge amount of say in university funding and governance, that can be really helpful in all sorts of ways. I wish that weren't the way things worked, but it is.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:01 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:01 PM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, is it just me or is the headline for the Slate article awful? It, thankfully, doesn't match the tone of the actual article, but seriously "Baylor University Fires Its Best Football Coach Ever Over Mishandling of Sexual Assault Cases" makes it sound like that's a bad thing. Like "OH NOES! BUT HE WAS SUCH A GOOD COACH WHO CARES?!??!"
(Again, the actual article isn't that, but... uh, if I had written that and someone put that headline on it, I'd be pissed.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 4:18 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
(Again, the actual article isn't that, but... uh, if I had written that and someone put that headline on it, I'd be pissed.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 4:18 PM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
As a Baylor graduate (2001 - Sic 'Em Bears!!!), I'm proud of my alma mater for living up to their professed principles and doing the right thing.
You know, once their hands were tied, their feet were to the fire, and they really didn't have any fucking choice.
posted by Ufez Jones at 4:38 PM on May 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
You know, once their hands were tied, their feet were to the fire, and they really didn't have any fucking choice.
posted by Ufez Jones at 4:38 PM on May 26, 2016 [12 favorites]
I am a Baylor grad. (timeframe: I was attending BU during the 1993 Branch Davidian siege.) I chose the school for incredibly stupid reasons, don't generally admit to it unless asked directly, and have literally not been proud of my association with the school even once in the 20ish years since graduation. The best I've managed (and only rarely) is something along the lines of Oh! Well! That's not nearly as awful as I would have expected!
I guess this is one of those rare moments. Sic 'Em Bears.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:57 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I guess this is one of those rare moments. Sic 'Em Bears.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:57 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ken Starr: Duke Law's second most famous graduate, ladies and gentlemen!
Tricky Dick Nixon is #1.
Tucker Max is #3.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:03 PM on May 26
Ann Richards (lord rest her sweet soul, Baylor class of 1954) must be doing about 180 rpm in her grave right now.
posted by Ufez Jones at 5:16 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Tricky Dick Nixon is #1.
Tucker Max is #3.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:03 PM on May 26
Ann Richards (lord rest her sweet soul, Baylor class of 1954) must be doing about 180 rpm in her grave right now.
posted by Ufez Jones at 5:16 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does anyone know what the difference is between president and chancellor at Baylor? I know that at some multi-campus university systems, one of them is in charge of a single campus and the other is in charge of the overall system, but Baylor's just the one school, I think.
American universities are inconsistent in their usage of titles. The general rule I've observed is at private universities the office of chancellor is an honorary or ceremonial position while at state universities the office chancellor is an actual administrative position. In most state university systems, the campus CEOs are presidents and the system CEOs are chancellors - but in California, Missouri, and some other states, the campus boss is a chancellor and the system boss is a president.
posted by Ranucci at 6:52 PM on May 26, 2016
American universities are inconsistent in their usage of titles. The general rule I've observed is at private universities the office of chancellor is an honorary or ceremonial position while at state universities the office chancellor is an actual administrative position. In most state university systems, the campus CEOs are presidents and the system CEOs are chancellors - but in California, Missouri, and some other states, the campus boss is a chancellor and the system boss is a president.
posted by Ranucci at 6:52 PM on May 26, 2016
Baylor Fires Art Briles, But Transparency Is Absent From The University In Complete Systemic Failure
"Thursday's firing of football coach Art Briles, demotion of president Ken Starr and sanctioning—whatever that means—of athletic director Ian McCaw didn't happen because the wealthy alums on the board suddenly decided to stand up and do what's right. This happened because they had no other conceivable choice. Occasionally, the right thing and the bottom line intersect."
"Consider it this way: Baylor had 3,394 first-time freshmen enroll for the 2015 fall semester. Imagine that number suddenly dropped by a quarter, which is a conservative estimate given the seriousness of these issues. At $42,546 a year in tuition and fees, the school would lose $36.1 million a year in potential revenue. And it would keep losing that money if the school refused to address the issues raised in the report. So the board did the only thing it could. It made high-profile moves, and it can now try to begin restoring the trust of Baylor's constituents."
posted by chris24 at 8:11 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Thursday's firing of football coach Art Briles, demotion of president Ken Starr and sanctioning—whatever that means—of athletic director Ian McCaw didn't happen because the wealthy alums on the board suddenly decided to stand up and do what's right. This happened because they had no other conceivable choice. Occasionally, the right thing and the bottom line intersect."
"Consider it this way: Baylor had 3,394 first-time freshmen enroll for the 2015 fall semester. Imagine that number suddenly dropped by a quarter, which is a conservative estimate given the seriousness of these issues. At $42,546 a year in tuition and fees, the school would lose $36.1 million a year in potential revenue. And it would keep losing that money if the school refused to address the issues raised in the report. So the board did the only thing it could. It made high-profile moves, and it can now try to begin restoring the trust of Baylor's constituents."
posted by chris24 at 8:11 PM on May 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
How important are these moneymaking sports programs to universities, really? To education, to research, to learning?
So let's take a look at one big time program that dropped intercollegiate sports.
Turns out it didn't hurt very much. In fact, not at all.
"The University of Chicago’s endowment finished fiscal year 2015 with a market value of $7.55 billion, including $996 million of Medical Center endowment and $82 million of Marine Biological Laboratory endowment. Ninety-six percent of the endowment is invested in the Total Return Investment Pool (TRIP). TRIP’s return, net of outside management fees, was +4.8 percent for the fiscal year. Investment returns generated $272 million to the endowment during fiscal year 2015. The average compounded investment result for the University over the last five years is a 9.8 percent gain; the average since the financial crisis is an 11.4 percent gain*; the average over the last 10 years is an 8.3 percent gain; and the average return over the past 20 years is 10.6 percent. Each of these gains outperformed the market-based, policy-weighted strategic benchmarks used by the University for these periods."
posted by stargell at 9:45 PM on May 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
So let's take a look at one big time program that dropped intercollegiate sports.
Turns out it didn't hurt very much. In fact, not at all.
"The University of Chicago’s endowment finished fiscal year 2015 with a market value of $7.55 billion, including $996 million of Medical Center endowment and $82 million of Marine Biological Laboratory endowment. Ninety-six percent of the endowment is invested in the Total Return Investment Pool (TRIP). TRIP’s return, net of outside management fees, was +4.8 percent for the fiscal year. Investment returns generated $272 million to the endowment during fiscal year 2015. The average compounded investment result for the University over the last five years is a 9.8 percent gain; the average since the financial crisis is an 11.4 percent gain*; the average over the last 10 years is an 8.3 percent gain; and the average return over the past 20 years is 10.6 percent. Each of these gains outperformed the market-based, policy-weighted strategic benchmarks used by the University for these periods."
posted by stargell at 9:45 PM on May 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wellll, what goes around comes around, given a big enough telephone pole.
posted by carping demon at 10:27 PM on May 26, 2016
posted by carping demon at 10:27 PM on May 26, 2016
Jordan Sargent: The Scandal at Baylor Makes it Clear Penn State Did Nothing to Change College Football
A few weeks ago ESPN’s Outside the Lines published a report stating that Baylor as a football program and university has conspired with local police in Waco, Tex. to shield its players from investigations and punishment stemming from allegations of sexual and physical assaults against women. OTL reported on three new incidents, which when combined with previously known stories painted a picture of a university—led by president and onetime Clinton antagonist Ken Starr, and head coach Art Briles—that systematically protected star athletes at the expense of women who said they were victims of violence.posted by zombieflanders at 9:29 AM on May 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
[...]
[I]n reality, a new era in college football is not, of course, one in which the most powerful institutions in an entire city band together to shield sexually violent star athletes, several of whom the school knew had committed crimes against women in the past. It is not one in which victims have to go to the press to tell their stories of being neglected by their university. It is not one in which incredibly rich and powerful individuals atop that university are only forced to reckon with their actions years later because anonymous sources got so fed up that they leaked police reports to the press.
All of that is definitively already within the current era of college football (and the entirety of college athletics), which has privileged players since its inception. Whatever “new era” people like Maisel are imagining exists only in the future, in some utopian fantasy where we can be 100 percent certain that no coaches and chancellors and police chiefs have decided that a certain player is too important to be ensnared in the legal system.
College football has been through this before, and recently. A school with one of the most famous teams in the history of the sport looked the other way on serial child rape. If Baylor actively obscuring numerous instances of rape and domestic abuse seems somehow different, it’s only because violence against women has long been normalized within society. Which means it’s true that, in some sense, Baylor’s players are not outliers—men everywhere get away with similar crimes. But on a micro level, it’s impossible not to feel like the organizations that run an entire city in Texas privileged these specific men, first and foremost, because they played football.
Does anyone know what the difference is between president and chancellor at Baylor?
I asked a friend who recently worked at Baylor (admin, prof). His response:
I asked a friend who recently worked at Baylor (admin, prof). His response:
as I understand it: nominally abt fundraising & ext relations. No operational responsibilities.posted by doctornemo at 11:21 AM on May 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Does anyone know what the difference is between president and chancellor at Baylor?
In its article about Starr's fall from grace on May 28, the NY Times reported that "The chancellor position is 'centered around development and religious liberty,' a regent said on a conference call Thursday afternoon . . . "
posted by A. Davey at 5:20 AM on May 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
In its article about Starr's fall from grace on May 28, the NY Times reported that "The chancellor position is 'centered around development and religious liberty,' a regent said on a conference call Thursday afternoon . . . "
posted by A. Davey at 5:20 AM on May 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Good luck on Ken Starr being a successful pitchman for Baylor. Universities are their own weird creatures but a living organism, none the less. Reading that report, as a university person, screams to me of trying to minimize, by intellectualizing and passive-toning, a big chunk of awfulness. An awfulness that cuts to the heart of an institution that has become idolators of its sports program. I refuse, to this day, to donate any funds to my one of my undergrad schools because of that sports program idolatry that lead to no championships and criminal behavior.
posted by jadepearl at 3:34 PM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jadepearl at 3:34 PM on May 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
And in what is unsurprising news, Baylor AD Ian McCaw has resigned.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:05 AM on May 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:05 AM on May 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
Starr resigns as chancellor, will remain professor at law school.
posted by Etrigan at 9:32 AM on June 1, 2016
posted by Etrigan at 9:32 AM on June 1, 2016
Ken Starr gives a bizzare interview in which he is caught out lying about never being informed, then having a known Republican "fixer" try to kill that part of the interview.
You should have just fired him, Baylor.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:35 PM on June 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
You should have just fired him, Baylor.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:35 PM on June 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
And now there are reports that a contingent on the Baylor board wants to bring back Briles after the 2016 season.
Do their learning curves have a negative slope?
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:36 AM on June 13, 2016
Do their learning curves have a negative slope?
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:36 AM on June 13, 2016
Three additional women have filed Title IX lawsuits against Baylor.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:54 AM on June 16, 2016
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:54 AM on June 16, 2016
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Tricky Dick Nixon is #1.
Tucker Max is #3.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:03 AM on May 26, 2016 [39 favorites]