Alan Turing law to be passed, pardoning thousands
October 20, 2016 10:48 AM Subscribe
Thousands of gay and bisexual men convicted under outdated gross indecency laws are to be posthumously pardoned, the Government has announced, in a “momentous” victory for campaigners‘. Alan Turing law’ unveiled by government will posthumously pardon thousands of gay men convicted of historic offences.
It's good that this applies broadly, to all the non famous people, even if of course it comes too late. It feels good to me.
But the thing I can never get over is that they killed Turing. It was so damn stupid! Evil, bigoted, and more, yes, but just so goddamned bone-headed. I mean, how many decades of work did we lose? What would we know now if he hadn't died? I mean, science is a collaborative enterprise, sure, there were other logicians, etc. But read anything the man wrote! What a loss.
posted by grobstein at 10:54 AM on October 20, 2016 [14 favorites]
But the thing I can never get over is that they killed Turing. It was so damn stupid! Evil, bigoted, and more, yes, but just so goddamned bone-headed. I mean, how many decades of work did we lose? What would we know now if he hadn't died? I mean, science is a collaborative enterprise, sure, there were other logicians, etc. But read anything the man wrote! What a loss.
posted by grobstein at 10:54 AM on October 20, 2016 [14 favorites]
Since the whole point of a Turing Machine is that what can be proven true for it can be proven true for any computing device, I think that Turing would have appreciated his being used as an exemplar in this matter.
posted by ubiquity at 11:06 AM on October 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ubiquity at 11:06 AM on October 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
They killed Turing, they killed Oscar Wilde, they killed so many others that we don't know about who were never able to achieve their full potential because they spent too much time in hiding or were simply driven to their early deaths by the horrible laws, and we are the losers. I'm glad that the law has been passed but I wish we could see this as a clear warning about every kind of bias.
posted by janey47 at 11:27 AM on October 20, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by janey47 at 11:27 AM on October 20, 2016 [27 favorites]
Is there precedent for a country doing this? It's amazing and will hopefully break the path for it to happen elsewhere.
posted by Emma May Smith at 11:34 AM on October 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Emma May Smith at 11:34 AM on October 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
As symbolic gestures go, this is a pretty good one.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:45 AM on October 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 11:45 AM on October 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
🌈
posted by rebent at 11:54 AM on October 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by rebent at 11:54 AM on October 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Finally. Too late for the people whose lives these laws restricted, blighted and destroyed, my uncle among them, but an important gesture.
posted by doornoise at 12:01 PM on October 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by doornoise at 12:01 PM on October 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hugs everyone, this is a beautiful, yet very painful gesture.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:22 PM on October 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:22 PM on October 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
George Montadue: "I could not be more happy about it, except one thing. I will not accept a pardon."
'I want an apology, not a pardon'
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:23 PM on October 20, 2016 [20 favorites]
'I want an apology, not a pardon'
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:23 PM on October 20, 2016 [20 favorites]
Dead gay men remain silent on new pardon plans.
posted by plep at 12:41 PM on October 20, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by plep at 12:41 PM on October 20, 2016 [11 favorites]
I suspect that Turing himself might have preferred that "Alan Turing's Law" be something in computer science textbooks... but then again, maybe this should be.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:15 PM on October 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:15 PM on October 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
But the thing I can never get over is that they killed Turing. It was so damn stupid! Evil, bigoted, and more, yes, but just so goddamned bone-headed. I mean, how many decades of work did we lose? What would we know now if he hadn't died?
Despite not being in CS, I often wonder myself about the timelines where (say) Knuth or Ritchie were Turing students.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:26 PM on October 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Despite not being in CS, I often wonder myself about the timelines where (say) Knuth or Ritchie were Turing students.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:26 PM on October 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is great, but only applies in England and Wales, not Scotland or Northern Ireland.
posted by Braeburn at 2:06 PM on October 20, 2016
posted by Braeburn at 2:06 PM on October 20, 2016
But the thing I can never get over is that they killed Turing. It was so damn stupid! Evil, bigoted, and more, yes, but just so goddamned bone-headed. I mean, how many decades of work did we lose? What would we know now if he hadn't died?
Despite not being in CS, I often wonder myself about the timelines where (say) Knuth or Ritchie were Turing students.
Yes! Turing has only one doctoral student in the Mathematical Genealogy Project database -- I don't know whether those records should be regarded as exhaustive.
The student was Robin Gandy, who was actually an extremely interesting researcher. But you can imagine so much more.
posted by grobstein at 2:22 PM on October 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Despite not being in CS, I often wonder myself about the timelines where (say) Knuth or Ritchie were Turing students.
Yes! Turing has only one doctoral student in the Mathematical Genealogy Project database -- I don't know whether those records should be regarded as exhaustive.
The student was Robin Gandy, who was actually an extremely interesting researcher. But you can imagine so much more.
posted by grobstein at 2:22 PM on October 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
It will become law in Scotland in 13 years time...
posted by marienbad at 5:41 PM on October 20, 2016
posted by marienbad at 5:41 PM on October 20, 2016
It would be interesting to see a country by country list of who decriminalised homosexuality and when. Wiki has one for the USA, state by state, but I couldn't find a list worldwide.
posted by marienbad at 6:07 PM on October 20, 2016
posted by marienbad at 6:07 PM on October 20, 2016
This is great, but only applies in England and Wales, not Scotland or Northern Ireland.
Is there even a mechanism for this sort of legislation to cover all of the UK?
I listen to Radio 1 at work and noted that they were consistently quoting 1982 for decriminalisation of homosexuality. I thought it was an interesting choice, but I don't know if it was to make a point that everything wasn't sunshine and roses after 1967 or if they thought 1967 seems impossibly long ago to the Radio 1 target audience. Or maybe whoever wrote the new bulletin had to Google for the year.
posted by hoyland at 7:59 PM on October 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is there even a mechanism for this sort of legislation to cover all of the UK?
I listen to Radio 1 at work and noted that they were consistently quoting 1982 for decriminalisation of homosexuality. I thought it was an interesting choice, but I don't know if it was to make a point that everything wasn't sunshine and roses after 1967 or if they thought 1967 seems impossibly long ago to the Radio 1 target audience. Or maybe whoever wrote the new bulletin had to Google for the year.
posted by hoyland at 7:59 PM on October 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sorry to all who find this touching, but it's simple: This is not good enough.
There needs to be a clear, explicit apology, not a pardon.
posted by yellowcandy at 8:16 PM on October 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
There needs to be a clear, explicit apology, not a pardon.
posted by yellowcandy at 8:16 PM on October 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
How about both?
posted by tavella at 9:25 PM on October 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 9:25 PM on October 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is not a step forward or backward. A pardon assumes they did something wrong and needed to be punished. How about an official apology from the central government, the crown, and striking the verdicts from all public records?
posted by Brocktoon at 1:31 AM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Brocktoon at 1:31 AM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I totally agree that they should be pardoned and an apology issued, but this is a step in the right direction, and as we all know, sometimes the only way to get there is by taking these steps. It took years after decriminalisation for anti-discrimination laws to be passed, and only recently have civil partnerships been introduced.
posted by marienbad at 5:03 AM on October 21, 2016
posted by marienbad at 5:03 AM on October 21, 2016
The bill is being debated now. More info from the BBC here.
posted by marienbad at 8:12 AM on October 21, 2016
posted by marienbad at 8:12 AM on October 21, 2016
... and the Government talked it out (filibustered it), apparently because it has plans for its own, similar but more narrowly defined legislation later. So put your celebrations back in the box, everyone: we're still as bad as everyone else when it comes to behaving shamefully to gay men, alive or dead. Even if similar legislation is coming, this still feels like a further insult to those who have already suffered.
posted by YoungStencil at 9:56 AM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by YoungStencil at 9:56 AM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
As I understand it, it was filibustered because there are actual criminal acts (think underage sex and rape) that were categorized as "gross indecency" at the time, which would have been pardoned under the law as it was proposed. So I don't think it's fair to take out the pitchforks, although obviously an amended version of the law should be passed as quickly as possible.
posted by perplexion at 11:04 AM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by perplexion at 11:04 AM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Or, actually, upon closer rereading, it looks like the Turing bill did make exceptions for those who had committed legitimately criminal acts. According to this press release, Gyimah's argument is that the bill as proposed won't investigate those cases thoroughly enough.
posted by perplexion at 11:16 AM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by perplexion at 11:16 AM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, isn't that shitty … a justice minister relying on a filibuster. I suspect the May regime could not be seen to allow any ideas to come out of the SNP, lest they fail to like their place back in Ghillie Jocko Land.
I used my last vote as an expat UK citizen to get John Nicolson, the sponsor of this bill, into Parliament. It is shameful that a bill that had no official opponents was shut out this way. The tired old saw that says the FPTP system keeps out fascists is now dead and buried.
posted by scruss at 10:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I used my last vote as an expat UK citizen to get John Nicolson, the sponsor of this bill, into Parliament. It is shameful that a bill that had no official opponents was shut out this way. The tired old saw that says the FPTP system keeps out fascists is now dead and buried.
posted by scruss at 10:05 AM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
How about both?
How about an apology for a law that wasn't ethical, moral, or sensible in the first place? Pardoning someone implies that s/he is being forgiven for doing something wrong. That's not the case here.
A pardon is an indulgence. An apology is an admission of wrongdoing.
posted by yellowcandy at 10:46 PM on October 22, 2016
How about an apology for a law that wasn't ethical, moral, or sensible in the first place? Pardoning someone implies that s/he is being forgiven for doing something wrong. That's not the case here.
A pardon is an indulgence. An apology is an admission of wrongdoing.
posted by yellowcandy at 10:46 PM on October 22, 2016
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posted by marienbad at 10:49 AM on October 20, 2016 [1 favorite]