Orange you glad I didn't say leadership race?
September 30, 2017 3:19 PM Subscribe
The New Democratic Party of Canada - descended from the socialist CCF - is about to choose a new leader, after more than a year of campaigning. Policies on offer include universal basic income, a worker cooperative option for closing businesses, a national carbon budget, mixed-member proportional representation, recognition of the distinct need of Aboriginal people in the justice system, legalization of all drugs, and more. Four candidates - Jagmeet Singh, Charlie Angus, Guy Caron and Niki Ashton - remain in the race.
Jagmeet Singh, who is attracting large numbers of suburbanites for the first time in the party's history, appears to be the front-runner. He went viral for his response to a heckler who attacked him for his "Shariah".
Charlie Angus, with roots in punk rock and Indigenous and environmental activism, launched his campaign by criticizing Trudeau for supporting an arms deal with Saudi Arabia, backing away from a campaign promise to implement electoral reform, and sticking to "the Bay Street status quo".
Niki Ashton, MP for a riding nearly half-a-million square kilometers in size with a higher percentage of Indigenous voters than any other in Canada, is aiming for young voters on issues such as climate change and income inequality, amid rising tuition and diminishing job prospects. She campaigned for Bernie Sanders in South Dakota. She has strong activist support, in part for her calls for justice for transgender and non-binary people.
Guy Caron, an economist, has presented cautious proposals for providing universal basic income via tweaks to the tax code, and an infrastructure investment plan.
Debates have been held in Ottawa, Montreal, Sudbury, St. John's, Saskatoon, Victoria, Montreal (again), Vancouver, and Hamilton.
The party has been on a roller-coaster ride since the death of Jack Layton, going from first in the polls to third at the ballot box in the last election, not long after a Rachel Notley's shocking win in Alberta. Former leader Thomas Mulcair's leadership loss came in Notley's backyard, after the Leap Manifesto (previously) caused consternation for Alberta's new government.
Jagmeet Singh, who is attracting large numbers of suburbanites for the first time in the party's history, appears to be the front-runner. He went viral for his response to a heckler who attacked him for his "Shariah".
Charlie Angus, with roots in punk rock and Indigenous and environmental activism, launched his campaign by criticizing Trudeau for supporting an arms deal with Saudi Arabia, backing away from a campaign promise to implement electoral reform, and sticking to "the Bay Street status quo".
Niki Ashton, MP for a riding nearly half-a-million square kilometers in size with a higher percentage of Indigenous voters than any other in Canada, is aiming for young voters on issues such as climate change and income inequality, amid rising tuition and diminishing job prospects. She campaigned for Bernie Sanders in South Dakota. She has strong activist support, in part for her calls for justice for transgender and non-binary people.
Guy Caron, an economist, has presented cautious proposals for providing universal basic income via tweaks to the tax code, and an infrastructure investment plan.
Debates have been held in Ottawa, Montreal, Sudbury, St. John's, Saskatoon, Victoria, Montreal (again), Vancouver, and Hamilton.
The party has been on a roller-coaster ride since the death of Jack Layton, going from first in the polls to third at the ballot box in the last election, not long after a Rachel Notley's shocking win in Alberta. Former leader Thomas Mulcair's leadership loss came in Notley's backyard, after the Leap Manifesto (previously) caused consternation for Alberta's new government.
GO JAGMEET
posted by chococat at 4:05 PM on September 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chococat at 4:05 PM on September 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Was very pleased to vote for Ashton, the most progressive candidate out of the lot. It looks, however, like Jagmeet will win, a result that pleases me only slightly less so.
posted by standardasparagus at 4:38 PM on September 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by standardasparagus at 4:38 PM on September 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
They're all good candidates. Trudeau will be pretty hard to beat, I wonder what NDP strategy each leader could make work.
posted by anthill at 4:39 PM on September 30, 2017
posted by anthill at 4:39 PM on September 30, 2017
Been pulling for Ashton but I admit that Singh is winning me over, both with his personality and his politics. Also Ashton is only 35 so she'll most likely get another shot down the road.
posted by mannequito at 4:47 PM on September 30, 2017
posted by mannequito at 4:47 PM on September 30, 2017
Ashton is the most progressive but she's also clearly the least ready for prime time - witness her awful flopping around on the Quebec anti-Muslim laws, for example.
Jagmeet is very, very smart (disclosure: I went to law school with his brother Gurratan, who is every bit as smart and tenacious as his brother and I've met Jagmeet a couple of times in that context, although I doubt he would remember me) and more importantly has charisma in a way that you just can't teach. He's the only one of the four who really frightens the Liberals and Tories and with good reason - part of his groundswell of support is coming from immigrant families who might be more socially conservative than might otherwise normally be inclined to vote for the NDP, which - extrapolating to the general - means he might well eat into many riding bases that have been solid Grit or Tory.
posted by mightygodking at 4:48 PM on September 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
Jagmeet is very, very smart (disclosure: I went to law school with his brother Gurratan, who is every bit as smart and tenacious as his brother and I've met Jagmeet a couple of times in that context, although I doubt he would remember me) and more importantly has charisma in a way that you just can't teach. He's the only one of the four who really frightens the Liberals and Tories and with good reason - part of his groundswell of support is coming from immigrant families who might be more socially conservative than might otherwise normally be inclined to vote for the NDP, which - extrapolating to the general - means he might well eat into many riding bases that have been solid Grit or Tory.
posted by mightygodking at 4:48 PM on September 30, 2017 [16 favorites]
Wow, this is the first I am hearing about this guy and it feels good to be Canadian. Where I grew up in Surrey B.C. I experienced the arrival of the Sikhs in elementary school, and the intolerance of the majority white population as their numbers grew year by year. He looks close to me in age so I have a pretty good idea what it must have been like for him as a kid. But here he is full of grace and empathy and ready to lead us all. Fuck yeah, go go Jagmeet!
posted by Meatbomb at 5:45 PM on September 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 5:45 PM on September 30, 2017 [4 favorites]
To appeal to French-speaking voters:
- Charlie → Charlot
- Niki → la femme Nikita
- Singh → Chantecler
I just voted. Damn it was hard to choose. I would be happy with any option.
posted by chapps at 12:41 AM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chapps at 12:41 AM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Singh → Chantecler
[googles] The police chief rooster from Reynard the Fox? (?)
posted by clawsoon at 1:42 AM on October 1, 2017
[googles] The police chief rooster from Reynard the Fox? (?)
posted by clawsoon at 1:42 AM on October 1, 2017
One thing I don't understand: If it's a ranked ballot, why do there need to be multiple rounds of voting? Don't you just mark your preferences 1-2-3-4, and everything can be calculated from there without the need for more rounds?
posted by clawsoon at 5:22 AM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 5:22 AM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I’m so delighted that this is basically the opppsite of the CPC leadership race, where almost every single candidate made me want to scream and then hurl and then scream some more. I had a softer spot for Mulcair than I think a lot of other NDPers but I’m excited to see where the party goes
posted by Phire at 5:23 AM on October 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Phire at 5:23 AM on October 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
clawsoon, I was wondering the same thing this morning. Does it really take a week to do the math for round 2?
posted by saturday_morning at 7:22 AM on October 1, 2017
posted by saturday_morning at 7:22 AM on October 1, 2017
I think what's happening with the ranked ballots is that after the 1st round, the bottom candidate is dropped and then everyone re-votes. Which is why it takes so long.
It's not exactly efficient - especially since they're using ranked ballots to do this and not a rolling FPTP system, but it does keep the party in the news for the next month!
posted by thecjm at 8:03 AM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's not exactly efficient - especially since they're using ranked ballots to do this and not a rolling FPTP system, but it does keep the party in the news for the next month!
posted by thecjm at 8:03 AM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
The most active discussion I've found so far is on rabble.ca. Here is the 4th part of the discussion, almost 1500 comments in.
posted by clawsoon at 8:23 AM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 8:23 AM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Singh → Chantecler
[googles] The police chief rooster from Reynard the Fox? (?)
I have in mind Rostand's play. It's a bit of dig to liken a politician to a rooster who tells everyone that his crowing makes the sun rise. The actor with a coxcomb reminds me of Singh's turban. Of course, the whole thing is based on a pun on "to sing", ie. Singh, and "chanter." Added to all that is that chantecler is a Canadian breed of chicken.
posted by No Robots at 9:57 AM on October 1, 2017
[googles] The police chief rooster from Reynard the Fox? (?)
I have in mind Rostand's play. It's a bit of dig to liken a politician to a rooster who tells everyone that his crowing makes the sun rise. The actor with a coxcomb reminds me of Singh's turban. Of course, the whole thing is based on a pun on "to sing", ie. Singh, and "chanter." Added to all that is that chantecler is a Canadian breed of chicken.
posted by No Robots at 9:57 AM on October 1, 2017
You can change the ranking between counts or let your original ballot stand. Not sure why... Perhaps to allow a bit of replication of the in person convention tactic where a losing candidate encourages their supporters to rally behind a particular opponent?
posted by chapps at 10:31 AM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chapps at 10:31 AM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ah, so it's a traditional multi-round runoff, but you can stick with your original ranking as a convenience?
I'm watching the first debate now, and even though I don't speak French, it's easy to see how much more comfortable they are with the language than most of the Conservative candidates were in any of their debates.
posted by clawsoon at 10:55 AM on October 1, 2017
I'm watching the first debate now, and even though I don't speak French, it's easy to see how much more comfortable they are with the language than most of the Conservative candidates were in any of their debates.
posted by clawsoon at 10:55 AM on October 1, 2017
Jagmeet Singh it is!
posted by clawsoon at 12:30 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 12:30 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
53.8% of the vote on the first ballot! That's decisive as hell.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 12:33 PM on October 1, 2017
posted by mrjohnmuller at 12:33 PM on October 1, 2017
Whoa: Jagmeet nearly tripled the next runner-up, Charlie (35k to 12k votes).
posted by Beardman at 12:33 PM on October 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Beardman at 12:33 PM on October 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Listening to his victory speech now!! Yay!!
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:36 PM on October 1, 2017
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:36 PM on October 1, 2017
He just finished thanking his fellow candidates. You know what, I would have been happy with any of them, honestly. It's so refreshing to feel that way!
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:43 PM on October 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:43 PM on October 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Our next PM (hopefully). This is the guy I want helping Canada rebuild after the Trump Wars in 2019.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 12:45 PM on October 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 12:45 PM on October 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Justin Trudeau is now the old man - 7 years older than both Singh and Scheer. What a difference a year makes.
posted by clawsoon at 12:59 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 12:59 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
And he brought up racism in policing right up top of his priority list... That's gutsy and just sooooo awesome!
posted by chapps at 1:01 PM on October 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by chapps at 1:01 PM on October 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is awesome. I'm actually feeling a bit hopeful about the future, how fucked up is that?
posted by chococat at 1:48 PM on October 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by chococat at 1:48 PM on October 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh, this should be interesting. A nice generational change across the board. Trudeau pulled off a win because Harper was at an end and Mulcair wasn't a vibrant option. I don't see Scheer as an exciting draw for the right - Harper with a smile only goes so far - but Singh and Trudeau can really battle over the left and center positions which gives the right an opening. A lot of political wags may be wondering if Canadians are ready to vote for someone as "different" as Singh, but I don't think he'll have any trouble attracting votes on the left.
I still think the Liberals are in the lead position, but it'll be a lot closer now and I can see any one of the three forming the next government.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 3:16 PM on October 1, 2017
I still think the Liberals are in the lead position, but it'll be a lot closer now and I can see any one of the three forming the next government.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 3:16 PM on October 1, 2017
I'm sure the Liberal campaign in the next election will boil down to, "Jagmeet is a great guy, but even a single vote for the NDP will summon the minority government ghost of Stephen Harper as a soul-eater. You don't want your soul eaten by the ghost of Stephen Harper, do you?"
For the sake of their electoral chances, finding an effective answer to that may be the most important thing the NDP does over the next couple of years.
posted by clawsoon at 3:38 PM on October 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
For the sake of their electoral chances, finding an effective answer to that may be the most important thing the NDP does over the next couple of years.
posted by clawsoon at 3:38 PM on October 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think an interesting wrinkle will be how Trudeau and Singh relate to Trump over the next two years. Trudeau so far has been trying to keep cozy with him, which is alienating support and will only get worse as Trump gets more insane and murderous. Singh on the other hand is free to attack both Trump and those who would collaborate with him.
Meanwhile, Dollarama Jonah Hill is leading the Conservatives with all the charisma of a boiled potato, and his only chance to win will be to fan the flames of racism, sexism, and general fear. He'll probably try and emulate 45 as much as possible. That will probably attract some backwoods crazies to his side who otherwise wouldn't vote at all, but it will also alienate conservative immigrant communities, who will already be tempted to vote Singh.
It's gonna be ugly, of course, but I'm honestly pretty optimistic. I think Singh has a real shot to win. I hope so anyway.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 4:17 PM on October 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Meanwhile, Dollarama Jonah Hill is leading the Conservatives with all the charisma of a boiled potato, and his only chance to win will be to fan the flames of racism, sexism, and general fear. He'll probably try and emulate 45 as much as possible. That will probably attract some backwoods crazies to his side who otherwise wouldn't vote at all, but it will also alienate conservative immigrant communities, who will already be tempted to vote Singh.
It's gonna be ugly, of course, but I'm honestly pretty optimistic. I think Singh has a real shot to win. I hope so anyway.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 4:17 PM on October 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm sure the Liberal campaign in the next election will boil down to, "Jagmeet is a great guy, but even a single vote for the NDP will summon the minority government ghost of Stephen Harper as a soul-eater. You don't want your soul eaten by the ghost of Stephen Harper, do you?"
Mind you, that's been a feature of Liberal campaigns as long as I've been voting, and probably for some time before that. I fell for it in '92, when I really, really wanted the Tories gone, and -- never again. Not the slightest concession to the agenda I actually preferred. Maybe that argument still works on some, but if one is habitually positioned on the left, you're probably inured to those calls by now, seeing as they come Every. Single. Time.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:25 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mind you, that's been a feature of Liberal campaigns as long as I've been voting, and probably for some time before that. I fell for it in '92, when I really, really wanted the Tories gone, and -- never again. Not the slightest concession to the agenda I actually preferred. Maybe that argument still works on some, but if one is habitually positioned on the left, you're probably inured to those calls by now, seeing as they come Every. Single. Time.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:25 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Capt. Renault: but if one is habitually positioned on the left, you're probably inured to those calls by now, seeing as they come Every. Single. Time.
The target, I think, would be voters whose primary experience is watching multiple Harper governments be voted in as a result of vote-splitting on the center-to-left. It won't seem liked tired repetition to them.
posted by clawsoon at 4:31 PM on October 1, 2017
The target, I think, would be voters whose primary experience is watching multiple Harper governments be voted in as a result of vote-splitting on the center-to-left. It won't seem liked tired repetition to them.
posted by clawsoon at 4:31 PM on October 1, 2017
Maybe we could try some form of electoral reform to reduce the risk of vote-splitting.
posted by RobotHero at 4:36 PM on October 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 4:36 PM on October 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm glad that Jagmeet won. He has skills and presence, which the party will need if it is to reach out beyond its base. He can be a bit non-committal for my liking, but that's not necessarily a bad thing in broadening appeal. His candidacy and election were bold choices, and boldness is what is required at the moment. How he will be received in the nation at large is an open question, but at the very least, he can gather attention in a way the others could not. Step One in forming a government is being able to attract attention to you and your platform, and Singh is best able to do that -- something the membership clearly recognized.
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:37 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Capt. Renault at 4:37 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wonder what this means for Horwath. Being leap-frogged by a subordinate is only going to highlight her own mixed record, and lead to pressure on her own leadership at a very inconvenient time.
posted by Capt. Renault at 5:11 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Capt. Renault at 5:11 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I voted Ashton first, Singh second, but I'm not displeased with this result. As for the Ontario NDP, Howarth basically threw everything the party ostensibly stands for out the window in a grab for the brass ring during the last election and I was kind of glad they lost.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:57 PM on October 1, 2017
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:57 PM on October 1, 2017
Trudeau so far has been trying to keep cozy with [Trump]
Huh? On what are you basing that view? Bombardier? Pipelines? Trade talks? Virtually every public pronouncement? Trudeau's been careful not to piss off Trump, because the maniac next door can really hurt us if provoked, but he's hardly been cozy with him on anything.
But you're right this will shear support off the Liberals; I don't think it'll be enough to put the NDP on top, but minority Lib/NDP is likely. And that, I suspect, will be the key to actual electoral reform. I've been pretty happy with Trudeau's performance so far, but that's the one issue that really bugs me. I could have accepted a failure to implement anything by now if I felt any actual effort had been made, but once they got a majority they reverted back to Natural Governing Party mode. I'd take a lifetime of power sharing among the parties if it means never again having a majority Conservative government.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:24 PM on October 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Huh? On what are you basing that view? Bombardier? Pipelines? Trade talks? Virtually every public pronouncement? Trudeau's been careful not to piss off Trump, because the maniac next door can really hurt us if provoked, but he's hardly been cozy with him on anything.
But you're right this will shear support off the Liberals; I don't think it'll be enough to put the NDP on top, but minority Lib/NDP is likely. And that, I suspect, will be the key to actual electoral reform. I've been pretty happy with Trudeau's performance so far, but that's the one issue that really bugs me. I could have accepted a failure to implement anything by now if I felt any actual effort had been made, but once they got a majority they reverted back to Natural Governing Party mode. I'd take a lifetime of power sharing among the parties if it means never again having a majority Conservative government.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:24 PM on October 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
I voted Ashton first, Singh second, but I'm not displeased with this result. As for the Ontario NDP, Howarth basically threw everything the party ostensibly stands for out the window in a grab for the brass ring during the last election and I was kind of glad they lost.
This. Horvath has willingly surrendered the opposition field to Patrick Brown, who has been allowed free reign to bury his lifelong militant misogyny and homophobia. But this province is brimming with assholes who will gladly vote for him. And Horvath has been sitting around with her thumb up her ass like this isn't a threat.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:42 PM on October 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
This. Horvath has willingly surrendered the opposition field to Patrick Brown, who has been allowed free reign to bury his lifelong militant misogyny and homophobia. But this province is brimming with assholes who will gladly vote for him. And Horvath has been sitting around with her thumb up her ass like this isn't a threat.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:42 PM on October 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dollarama Jonah Hill
Heh. The only point I'll challenge you on is that to my mind Scheer looks a little more like Seán Cullen than Jonah Hill.
It's a close contest, though.
YMMV.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:56 PM on October 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Heh. The only point I'll challenge you on is that to my mind Scheer looks a little more like Seán Cullen than Jonah Hill.
It's a close contest, though.
YMMV.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:56 PM on October 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
On a personal note, I was surprised to receive campaign email from Alex "I didn't know what Auschwitz was" Johnstone in support of Guy Caron and her own rehabilitation efforts. Guess the rehab will have to take a bit longer...
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:13 PM on October 1, 2017
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:13 PM on October 1, 2017
Hey! No picking on Séan Cullen!
posted by chapps at 10:22 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chapps at 10:22 PM on October 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wonder what this means for Horwath.
She's lost three elections in a row and badly against truly mediocre opponents to boot, and completely abandoned most of the party's principles last time around, and she still got the leadership seat again because the Ontario NDP is a joke that's given up even the appearance of trying to win. She'll be fine, unfortunately.
posted by mightygodking at 9:22 PM on October 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
She's lost three elections in a row and badly against truly mediocre opponents to boot, and completely abandoned most of the party's principles last time around, and she still got the leadership seat again because the Ontario NDP is a joke that's given up even the appearance of trying to win. She'll be fine, unfortunately.
posted by mightygodking at 9:22 PM on October 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
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