👣
October 7, 2017 11:45 AM Subscribe
Historical Body Mechanics: Walk Medieval! [YouTube] “Before structured shoes became prevalent in the 16th century (and apparently in those places where they never have) people walked with a different gait, pushing onto the balls of our feet instead of rocking forward on our heels. It looks a little affected -- like a gymnast or ballet dancer -- but is apparently much healthier.” [via: Boing Boing]
There have been other mentions of this in the past, barefoot or sandled Tarahumara runners, moccasins vs. shoes, and the FiveFingers shoes. It makes sense that the more you use your muscles in your feet, the stronger you will be.
posted by Bee'sWing at 11:56 AM on October 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 11:56 AM on October 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
"I have been walking on the balls of my feet for half a year now, and my calves, which used to be really skinny, have grown quite a bit".
What did this guy's calves look like before? Broomsticks?
posted by jonathanhughes at 11:59 AM on October 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
What did this guy's calves look like before? Broomsticks?
posted by jonathanhughes at 11:59 AM on October 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
If anyone is interested in this look up Esther Gokhale's work. It's great stuff and well worth it for anyone with back or neck pain, even if they've been told it can't be fixed.
posted by fshgrl at 12:02 PM on October 7, 2017
posted by fshgrl at 12:02 PM on October 7, 2017
I was taught a couple of years back by my then trainer, to run this way. It's very good. I suppose now would be a good time to learn to use it walking.
posted by evilDoug at 12:05 PM on October 7, 2017
posted by evilDoug at 12:05 PM on October 7, 2017
Nice title!
posted by Obscure Reference at 12:17 PM on October 7, 2017
posted by Obscure Reference at 12:17 PM on October 7, 2017
Yeah, having grown up in a place where most kids and many adults are barefoot, I'm not convinced. Never heard any African person talking about the good old toe-pointing days of yore neither.
There's so many places in the world where people walk barefoot, I'm struggling to understand why the people behind this theory didn't think to test it by observation.
posted by glasseyes at 12:18 PM on October 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
There's so many places in the world where people walk barefoot, I'm struggling to understand why the people behind this theory didn't think to test it by observation.
posted by glasseyes at 12:18 PM on October 7, 2017 [29 favorites]
That's what Esther Gokhale did actually. And she has a lot more to add to how unshod people walk that people should check out before adopting this. The idea of toe pointing is kind of goofy to me and I grew up barely wearing shoes at all.
posted by fshgrl at 12:23 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 12:23 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean, it's very appealing, and I get the thing with barefoot running on the balls of your feet being so much less stressful on the joints. But running and walking are completely different gaits. There's tons of vintage footage of Aboriginal peoples walking through untamed landscapes. Are they pointing their toes? I think not.
posted by glasseyes at 12:23 PM on October 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by glasseyes at 12:23 PM on October 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh man, fshgrl, you made me go and read Youtube comments :/
I saw the video on a different link, to Medium I think, and there was no info about related research. Who is Esther Gokhale, what is her connection to this?
posted by glasseyes at 12:30 PM on October 7, 2017
I saw the video on a different link, to Medium I think, and there was no info about related research. Who is Esther Gokhale, what is her connection to this?
posted by glasseyes at 12:30 PM on October 7, 2017
This is also the style of walking used in classical ballet — although the leg is externally rotated from the hip
posted by sixswitch at 12:34 PM on October 7, 2017
posted by sixswitch at 12:34 PM on October 7, 2017
I could understand this better if he took more than 3 steps to demonstrate it.
posted by rhizome at 12:50 PM on October 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 12:50 PM on October 7, 2017 [12 favorites]
This was posted on r/history last week, and there was some pushback about the lack of historical or anthropological research behind this. Here's a relatively neutral take on the forefoot/heel strike debate from r/AskHistorians.
posted by elgilito at 12:59 PM on October 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by elgilito at 12:59 PM on October 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
It was only during the 14th century that the distinction was made between left and right shoes in medieval Europe. Also during that period came a fashion for pointy shoes with increasingly longer tips, culminating in the ridiculous crackow, which were twenty inches long. I imagine it made stairs difficult.
I read about this in The Time Traveller's Guide to Medieval England just recently, from a recommendation from a Mefi thread. I've forgotten who, but thanks, it's a good read.
posted by adept256 at 1:00 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I read about this in The Time Traveller's Guide to Medieval England just recently, from a recommendation from a Mefi thread. I've forgotten who, but thanks, it's a good read.
posted by adept256 at 1:00 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
It was only during the 14th century that the distinction was made between left and right shoes in medieval Europe.
I've read that before and still find it odd. Feet are visibly asymmetrical and you'd think at some point someone would have asked the village cobbler to account for their big toes. The soft leather shoes the guy in the video is wearing look like they were made in the shape of his feet, and they look comfortable as a result.
posted by Dip Flash at 1:25 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've read that before and still find it odd. Feet are visibly asymmetrical and you'd think at some point someone would have asked the village cobbler to account for their big toes. The soft leather shoes the guy in the video is wearing look like they were made in the shape of his feet, and they look comfortable as a result.
posted by Dip Flash at 1:25 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm barefoot alot. I mean, alot... and I find myself walking with the ball first as a feeler for the detritus on the ground where I'm going. It's miliseconds of feedback and response loop going through my near-subconscious but it's definitely there and certainly carries over to when I'm wearing five fingers or mocs. I never put it together with the fact that I've been a moderately fast runner, even when out of shape since I'm just talking about short burst(s) speed, compared to many folks but I suppose there could be a connection as well but have no way of verifying the same. I'm certainly quieter than most folks when I traipse around the house.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:26 PM on October 7, 2017
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:26 PM on October 7, 2017
Was gonna say, can we agree heel strikes are the noisiest way to walk?
posted by Nelson at 1:51 PM on October 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 1:51 PM on October 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ok but he really needs to let out the seams of his tunic a little. I do like barefoot walking inside or on grass and I would agree that it affects my gait a lot.
posted by emjaybee at 2:07 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 2:07 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you have ever really walked barefoot - especially across stoney ground (or a lego filled floor)- you will know why people don't put their foot down heel first.
posted by Burn_IT at 3:30 PM on October 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Burn_IT at 3:30 PM on October 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
It was only during the 14th century that the distinction was made between left and right shoes in medieval Europe.
Roman shoes did have left and right soles. See here, here or here. The Egyptians had them, too. I can even find a bunch of medieval shoes with left-right soles without too much trouble.
I don't buy the video, either.
posted by sukeban at 3:31 PM on October 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
Roman shoes did have left and right soles. See here, here or here. The Egyptians had them, too. I can even find a bunch of medieval shoes with left-right soles without too much trouble.
I don't buy the video, either.
posted by sukeban at 3:31 PM on October 7, 2017 [10 favorites]
The medieval shoes link shows also a nice collection of pattens, which was what you wore to town over your thin leather shoe heels. Another time period when soles were very flimsy was the Regency, and I don't think you'll see many people talking about Regency Britons's gait this way. Of course, Regency ladies also used pattens for walking on anything more difficult than house interiors.
posted by sukeban at 3:46 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by sukeban at 3:46 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you have ever really walked barefoot - especially across stoney ground (or a lego filled floor)- you will know why people don't put their foot down heel first.
Okay, actually, if you've been walking barefoot ALL THE TIME since childhood, a few stones/bits of glass/lego aren't going to bother your VERY TOUGH SOLES. Take this from someone who was mercilessly mocked as a kid for not being able to walk barefoot over gravel.
Hence the word 'tenderfoot'.
posted by glasseyes at 3:56 PM on October 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
Okay, actually, if you've been walking barefoot ALL THE TIME since childhood, a few stones/bits of glass/lego aren't going to bother your VERY TOUGH SOLES. Take this from someone who was mercilessly mocked as a kid for not being able to walk barefoot over gravel.
Hence the word 'tenderfoot'.
posted by glasseyes at 3:56 PM on October 7, 2017 [8 favorites]
The video is nonsense. Whilst the idea of "forefoot" or "barefoot" running etc has some merits, it's unfortunately been hijacked by ideologues who adhere to the principles with little understanding and a blind faith that is really unjustified by the research in this area (eg guess what, heel strikers and forefoot strikers have virtually no difference in injury rates).
More damningly, someone actually bothered to do the research this idiot didn't, and found "the majority of subjects instead used a rearfoot strike at endurance running speeds."
It's part of a naturalistic fallacy, and as a mid/forefoot striker myself who's had about three months off due to injury this year, I'm really sick of hearing all the fairy tales about it.
posted by smoke at 3:56 PM on October 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
More damningly, someone actually bothered to do the research this idiot didn't, and found "the majority of subjects instead used a rearfoot strike at endurance running speeds."
It's part of a naturalistic fallacy, and as a mid/forefoot striker myself who's had about three months off due to injury this year, I'm really sick of hearing all the fairy tales about it.
posted by smoke at 3:56 PM on October 7, 2017 [19 favorites]
And I imagine you wouldn't have to bother making a left and right shoe for the pair because that very soft leather would mould to your foot. Use would determine the footedness of your shoes naturally.
posted by glasseyes at 3:58 PM on October 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by glasseyes at 3:58 PM on October 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Not as exaggerated as his ballet walk, but I kinda tiptoe around like this when barefoot. The outside edge of my foot almost lands first, rolls onto the ball, and my heels barely land. It mostly gives me tight hamstrings.
posted by lucidium at 4:56 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lucidium at 4:56 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
It is very quiet though.
posted by lucidium at 4:56 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lucidium at 4:56 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Historical toe-led locomotion? That can only mean one thing.
posted by rhizome at 5:26 PM on October 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 5:26 PM on October 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
Who is Esther Gokhale, what is her connection to this?
She's based an entire system of posture modification on direct observations of people who live traditional lifestyles. She's got a huge following now and works a lot with Stanford Med. I've taken one of her classes, it's good stuff. She has a lot to say about feet and walking and can actually back it up.
I kind of do hope that prancing takes off on a large scale though, just for my amusement.
posted by fshgrl at 6:32 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
She's based an entire system of posture modification on direct observations of people who live traditional lifestyles. She's got a huge following now and works a lot with Stanford Med. I've taken one of her classes, it's good stuff. She has a lot to say about feet and walking and can actually back it up.
I kind of do hope that prancing takes off on a large scale though, just for my amusement.
posted by fshgrl at 6:32 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm barefoot alot. I mean, alot... and I find myself walking with the ball first as a feeler for the detritus on the ground where I'm going. It's miliseconds of feedback and response loop going through my near-subconscious but it's definitely there and certainly carries over to when I'm wearing five fingers or mocs.
Yeah, I grew up in the bush running around mostly barefoot on gravel, rocks, bumpy ground covered in sticks and venomous ants etc. and I definitely stepped ball-first. But it wasn't quite like the guy in the video; I kept my knees slightly bent so that if I stepped on something sharp enough to hurt through the thick, leathery calluses on the soles of my feet, or on a stick or something that gave way, that leg could easily buckle before I put too much weight on it. The kind of straight-kneed, pointy-toed steps he's doing would only have worked for very slow walking.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 6:49 PM on October 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I grew up in the bush running around mostly barefoot on gravel, rocks, bumpy ground covered in sticks and venomous ants etc. and I definitely stepped ball-first. But it wasn't quite like the guy in the video; I kept my knees slightly bent so that if I stepped on something sharp enough to hurt through the thick, leathery calluses on the soles of my feet, or on a stick or something that gave way, that leg could easily buckle before I put too much weight on it. The kind of straight-kneed, pointy-toed steps he's doing would only have worked for very slow walking.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 6:49 PM on October 7, 2017 [6 favorites]
Glasseyes, you're 100% right about the leather conforming to the shape of your feet. I made a pair of moccasins using a pattern that was identical for both feet, but the decorations were such that you had a right and left to the pair to show off the handiwork. It wasn't a week before they had molded to my feet and were noticeably a right and a left molded shoe.
Yeah, I grew up in the bush running around mostly barefoot...
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks
Epony-ouch!
posted by BlueHorse at 6:53 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I grew up in the bush running around mostly barefoot...
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks
Epony-ouch!
posted by BlueHorse at 6:53 PM on October 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I grew up in the bush running around mostly barefoot on gravel, rocks, bumpy ground covered in sticks and venomous ants etc. and I definitely stepped ball-first. But it wasn't quite like the guy in the video; I kept my knees slightly bent so that if I stepped on something sharp enough to hurt through the thick, leathery calluses on the soles of my feet, or on a stick or something that gave way, that leg could easily buckle before I put too much weight on it.
Exactly. And calluses I have, but they, like yours, are not invincible so reaction is key to any sort of self preservation and, apparently to some anyway, so is native american heritage.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:17 PM on October 7, 2017
Exactly. And calluses I have, but they, like yours, are not invincible so reaction is key to any sort of self preservation and, apparently to some anyway, so is native american heritage.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:17 PM on October 7, 2017
Just want to point out that Warzecha focuses on the reconstruction of the medieval sword art in MS I.33. Just following his work over the years shows how much he's willing to experiment and change his notions of medieval fighting in the larger western martial arts community. He mentions in the video that he learned about the mechanics from someone (possibly Dr. Julia Gräf) who attended a lecture discussing research on medieval walking. I'd like know what research that was. I expect that in practice you'd find that the type of footwork one uses depends on the context. The figures in MS I.33 definitely look like they're up on the front of their feet a lot.
I personally walk front of feet for uncertain ground or to move quietly. Heel striking for long distance walking. I don't know how it is in martial arts, but as dancer, it's possible to move quite quickly across a space using all sorts of footwork. I think the health benefits might be overstated, but certainly being mindfull and practicing good posture are better in the long run for the back and limb joints.
posted by Mister Cheese at 9:48 PM on October 7, 2017
I personally walk front of feet for uncertain ground or to move quietly. Heel striking for long distance walking. I don't know how it is in martial arts, but as dancer, it's possible to move quite quickly across a space using all sorts of footwork. I think the health benefits might be overstated, but certainly being mindfull and practicing good posture are better in the long run for the back and limb joints.
posted by Mister Cheese at 9:48 PM on October 7, 2017
I walk barefoot an average amount and I walk kind of like a cat kneads -- front of foot first. I think this is mostly to be quieter, maybe just to be weird, and sometimes because my heels hurt from striking too hard. [I strike really hard -- I wear out the outside backs of my heels about once a year]
I definitely don't walk like him in the video, though, where he keeps his weight over his back foot, points, and then transfers weight -- I'm almost always split-weight when I'm walking barefoot.
I do remember my ballroom coach in college introducing us to his friend Tony -- Toe, Knee, Heel -- as a sequence for lowering gracefully in foxtrot (something in promenade position, I don't remember). Land on the toe, bend the knee, and then put your heel down.
re: heel striking / forefoot striking when running -- I'll definitely say that I'd never gotten injured until I started reading about running technique / buying special shoes, but it might have been that I just hadn't accumulated enough microinjuries before then either. (Oh, to go back in time and clone myself and have multiple trials...)
posted by batter_my_heart at 12:04 AM on October 8, 2017
I definitely don't walk like him in the video, though, where he keeps his weight over his back foot, points, and then transfers weight -- I'm almost always split-weight when I'm walking barefoot.
I do remember my ballroom coach in college introducing us to his friend Tony -- Toe, Knee, Heel -- as a sequence for lowering gracefully in foxtrot (something in promenade position, I don't remember). Land on the toe, bend the knee, and then put your heel down.
re: heel striking / forefoot striking when running -- I'll definitely say that I'd never gotten injured until I started reading about running technique / buying special shoes, but it might have been that I just hadn't accumulated enough microinjuries before then either. (Oh, to go back in time and clone myself and have multiple trials...)
posted by batter_my_heart at 12:04 AM on October 8, 2017
Once I noticed the little wooden penis, I found it hard to focus on the stuff about gait patterns.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:52 AM on October 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:52 AM on October 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
It looks like the hilt of a bollock dagger but I had no idea they were worn like that.
posted by BinaryApe at 2:54 AM on October 8, 2017
posted by BinaryApe at 2:54 AM on October 8, 2017
If you are into this topic you might enjoy learning about the deep history of why/how humans walk/run the way we do in this free online course that's open right now: Bipedalism: The Science of Upright Walking. (Full disclosure: I worked on the course's video production)
Humans are the only mammals that are obligate bipedal walkers, and although there are lots of fascinating details about our anatomy and behavior, plus clues from fossils and other evidence of our evolutionary history, we don't really know how or why we ended up this way. Some neat theories though, and the course does a good job (IMHO) of staying grounded in the science.
posted by soy bean at 7:59 AM on October 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Humans are the only mammals that are obligate bipedal walkers, and although there are lots of fascinating details about our anatomy and behavior, plus clues from fossils and other evidence of our evolutionary history, we don't really know how or why we ended up this way. Some neat theories though, and the course does a good job (IMHO) of staying grounded in the science.
posted by soy bean at 7:59 AM on October 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
Edward Tenner's book Our own devices has a great chapter on how different types of footwear (across cultures and historical periods) affect our walking and running.
I am skeptial of some of the video's claims about ball-walking necessarily resulting in a more upright posture, and certainly the general idea that heal waliking is something modern and bad for us.
posted by neutralmojo at 8:52 AM on October 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am skeptial of some of the video's claims about ball-walking necessarily resulting in a more upright posture, and certainly the general idea that heal waliking is something modern and bad for us.
posted by neutralmojo at 8:52 AM on October 8, 2017 [1 favorite]
It looks like the hilt of a bollock dagger but I had no idea they were worn like that.
Yep. They were often worn that way, although not always. Here are two examples from the Bodley 264 Romance of Alexander.
posted by jedicus at 10:25 AM on October 8, 2017
Yep. They were often worn that way, although not always. Here are two examples from the Bodley 264 Romance of Alexander.
posted by jedicus at 10:25 AM on October 8, 2017
Walking, Advanced Infantry Training, Night Patrols: Toe first, and if you pay attention you actually can feel twigs, grass, tripwires through the leather of your boot's toe. Toe first gives you much better control if you decided to change the place you want to put your foot, or simply pause (freeze) for a while, because your weight is still over your supporting leg; use the toe area to quietly move any twigs or grass to either side before planting the whole foot. When the toe finds the appropriate place, you move your weight over to the leading foot, plant it toe first, gently lower your weight to that heel, and do it all again. If you keep your mind in the game, you can do this without making any noise.
Motivation is the key to learning this tactic. I could comfortably do this for hours at a time, and cover maybe a few hundred meters of rough ground over the course of a night's stroll. Oddly, when marching in formation we (soldiers) were taught to reach out with the heel of the leading foot, so as to increase our stride. Short guys like me needed to do this to keep up with the tall guys. Nowadays I do the Old Fart Shuffle, and check for booby-traps with my cane.
posted by mule98J at 11:13 AM on October 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Motivation is the key to learning this tactic. I could comfortably do this for hours at a time, and cover maybe a few hundred meters of rough ground over the course of a night's stroll. Oddly, when marching in formation we (soldiers) were taught to reach out with the heel of the leading foot, so as to increase our stride. Short guys like me needed to do this to keep up with the tall guys. Nowadays I do the Old Fart Shuffle, and check for booby-traps with my cane.
posted by mule98J at 11:13 AM on October 8, 2017 [4 favorites]
Was gonna say, can we agree heel strikes are the noisiest way to walk?
My father-in-law stomps. He walks like he's mad at the floor or something. He has the loudest walk I've ever heard.
He also wakes up at around 4am and has ADHD that he refuses to treat.
stomp-stomp-stomp
So he ends up walking around the house constantly every morning doing stuff that I'm sure doesn't need doing.
stomp-stomp-stomp
And the room we sleep in when we stay there is in the basement.
stomp-stomp-stomp
So when we're there, I wake up at 4am too.
posted by VTX at 2:38 PM on October 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
My father-in-law stomps. He walks like he's mad at the floor or something. He has the loudest walk I've ever heard.
He also wakes up at around 4am and has ADHD that he refuses to treat.
stomp-stomp-stomp
So he ends up walking around the house constantly every morning doing stuff that I'm sure doesn't need doing.
stomp-stomp-stomp
And the room we sleep in when we stay there is in the basement.
stomp-stomp-stomp
So when we're there, I wake up at 4am too.
posted by VTX at 2:38 PM on October 8, 2017 [3 favorites]
two things
1. from the reddit discussion linked above: No one's suggesting Renaissance babies came out of the womb weirdly muscular and with tiny heads
excuse you, internet historians, we certainly are and stop erasing my suggestions. art holds a mirror up to nature and vice versa, deal with it.
2. if humans weren't meant to use our entire feet to walk on we'd have evolved to have afterthought vestigial heels halfway up our calves, like a cat's back feet do. we would be some kind of mincing faun situation from the waist down. that would be fine and good and we would all be terrific goat-like mountain climbers but that is not how most human legs are made. the human heel is a fine thing and its detractors are motivated by unknown forces.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:32 PM on October 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
1. from the reddit discussion linked above: No one's suggesting Renaissance babies came out of the womb weirdly muscular and with tiny heads
excuse you, internet historians, we certainly are and stop erasing my suggestions. art holds a mirror up to nature and vice versa, deal with it.
2. if humans weren't meant to use our entire feet to walk on we'd have evolved to have afterthought vestigial heels halfway up our calves, like a cat's back feet do. we would be some kind of mincing faun situation from the waist down. that would be fine and good and we would all be terrific goat-like mountain climbers but that is not how most human legs are made. the human heel is a fine thing and its detractors are motivated by unknown forces.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:32 PM on October 8, 2017 [5 favorites]
The figures in MS I.33 definitely look like they're up on the front of their feet a lot.
How you stand and move while fencing might well not be how you walk.
posted by kenko at 6:34 PM on October 8, 2017
How you stand and move while fencing might well not be how you walk.
posted by kenko at 6:34 PM on October 8, 2017
I live in a house with dark wood floors, sharp pointy gravel in the yard, a temporarily missing deck that used to collect the gravel and dogs. So basically any step can turn into a nightime Lego experience as there are invisible stabby things everywhere. And I still don't prance like the video. I do rather carefully place my feet and keep my weight over my back foot until I've ascertained it's safe but it's not pointy-toe first- that makes no sense at all. You put the whole foot down at once, quivering to attention and roll it sideways or fore or aft to avoid sharp bits as needed. Only as a last resort do I snatch my entire foot up.
I went and walked around by the door to the missing deck in bare feet for you people. Well, not really, I went to assure the dog the door was already open. But I thought of this thread as I picked my way across.
PS, don't put tiny crushed rock right outside our doors.
posted by fshgrl at 10:18 PM on October 8, 2017
I went and walked around by the door to the missing deck in bare feet for you people. Well, not really, I went to assure the dog the door was already open. But I thought of this thread as I picked my way across.
PS, don't put tiny crushed rock right outside our doors.
posted by fshgrl at 10:18 PM on October 8, 2017
« Older Euromyths A-Z | Eliminating the profit motive in health care, Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Splunge at 11:54 AM on October 7, 2017 [3 favorites]