Double double Tim Horton's is in trouble
January 10, 2018 7:14 AM Subscribe
#NoTimmiesTuesday
At the beginning of 2018, the Ontario government raised the minimum wage across the province to $14/hr. A few Tim Horton's franchises--included ones owned by the very wealthy heirs of Horton--have responded by finding other ways to screw their workers.
Social media is suggesting that Canadians boycott Tim Horton's.
Other businesses are finding ways to skirt the new law.
Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne says, "Pick a fight with me, not the workers" to outlets that won't play ball.
Official statement from Tim Horton's.
At the beginning of 2018, the Ontario government raised the minimum wage across the province to $14/hr. A few Tim Horton's franchises--included ones owned by the very wealthy heirs of Horton--have responded by finding other ways to screw their workers.
Social media is suggesting that Canadians boycott Tim Horton's.
Other businesses are finding ways to skirt the new law.
Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne says, "Pick a fight with me, not the workers" to outlets that won't play ball.
Official statement from Tim Horton's.
It's been disconcerting to see a cohort of alt-righters showing up on Facebook over this, with their macroeconomic "just so" stories. On the other hand, the pushback has been pretty hard, so that's been encouraging.
posted by Quindar Beep at 7:27 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Quindar Beep at 7:27 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Used to work at Tim Horton's in my university years. My coworkers were amazing and the work itself was actually pretty fun, the occasional terrible customer aside. I even liked the franchise owner - she owned every one in the city, and would occasionally stop by. When she was there, she'd spend a few minutes helping us fill orders and chatting. Sad to see that other owners have such hostility towards the servicepeople they hired to keep their business running smoothly.
Additionally, their food ranges from bad to mediocre. I would love it if every other Tim Horton's was replaced by local business. Even McDonalds' coffee and eggs are superior.
posted by one of these days at 7:27 AM on January 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
Additionally, their food ranges from bad to mediocre. I would love it if every other Tim Horton's was replaced by local business. Even McDonalds' coffee and eggs are superior.
posted by one of these days at 7:27 AM on January 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
Tim Horton's food is massively overrated - just like Dunkin Donuts.
posted by bwvol at 7:31 AM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by bwvol at 7:31 AM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
I realised a couple of years ago that McDonalds coffee was vastly better, and since the egg mcmuffin is the technical pinnacle of the breakfast sandwich I hardly ever go to tim's anymore. And lord knows there's one on every corner around here.
posted by hearthpig at 7:31 AM on January 10, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by hearthpig at 7:31 AM on January 10, 2018 [6 favorites]
The fact they couldn't reach Ron and Jeri-Lynn because they were at their Florida homes made my jaw drop when this story first came out.
And yes, I know we all have strong feels about their quality of coffee and food, but this isn't about that.
posted by Kitteh at 7:32 AM on January 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
And yes, I know we all have strong feels about their quality of coffee and food, but this isn't about that.
posted by Kitteh at 7:32 AM on January 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
Living in the Inland Northwest means I don't have either Hortons or Dunkins anywhere near me. Starbucks, however, is so far beyond ubiquitous that it's a surprise if there isn't one within 100 yards.
posted by hippybear at 7:33 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 7:33 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
There are grocery stores here that have a Starbucks inside and then there is another Starbucks in the parking lot outside the grocery store, and then another Starbucks across the street. I'm not making this up.
posted by hippybear at 7:34 AM on January 10, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:34 AM on January 10, 2018 [15 favorites]
Tim Horton's food is basically fine but nothing beats a box of Timbits thrown into a back seat of hungry children to buy a precious few minutes of silence without worrying about needing to clean a confounding explosion of jelly or powdered sugar afterward.
That being said, I'll happily deny my calamitous children their beloved Timbits if goddamn Tim Hortons and won't pay their goddamn workers.
posted by Tevin at 7:35 AM on January 10, 2018 [21 favorites]
That being said, I'll happily deny my calamitous children their beloved Timbits if goddamn Tim Hortons and won't pay their goddamn workers.
posted by Tevin at 7:35 AM on January 10, 2018 [21 favorites]
Yeah, Tevin. I give a giant middle finger and a wide circle of avoidance to businesses who don't do well by their employees.
posted by hippybear at 7:38 AM on January 10, 2018
posted by hippybear at 7:38 AM on January 10, 2018
My Tim's story from a couple of years ago:
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 7:46 AM on January 10, 2018 [38 favorites]
There's this office building near me, had a small family-run cafe on the main floor; coffee, sandwiches, etc. All of a sudden, their landlord decides that they can't sell coffee, sandwiches or pastries anymore. And they are going to lose their inside access to the building's lobby, so you have to go outside to visit them. This is a big issue here in Calgary, where the weather makes going outside prohibitive half the year. Sure enough, shortly afterward, Tim Hortons moves in, and they are selling everything that Kim can't, and they have lobby access. Whaddya know.Happy update: The family cafe shifted to serving Korean food, and they're still doing a good lunch business. But Tim's can still bite me.
It's one thing that somehow Tim Hortons has brainwashed people into thinking that it is fair that a country half founded by the French should have people eating staggeringly mediocre pastries, or that somehow a tenuous connection to a dead hockey player makes you the most Canadian thing possible. Fine; marketing is what marketing is. But you know what's actually the most Canadian thing possible? A small family of immigrants, coming here and working hard. And all of their marketing might isn't enough to fight them fairly, they have to come in and stab them in the back too.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 7:46 AM on January 10, 2018 [38 favorites]
And yes, I know we all have strong feels about their quality of coffee and food, but this isn't about that.
I've long disliked and avoided Tim Horton's because of the way they treat their workers. That their coffee is crap only makes it easier for me to avoid giving my money to them. None of this is really surprising though.
I've already noticed prices of certain goods and services going up (haircut and oil-change to just name two I experienced personally) as a result of the $14 minimum wage increase but you know what....people need to be paid enough to put food on their table. I'm ok with this.
It's not going to be easy for business owners and I say this as someone who struggled to run a hotel for many years that ultimately failed. I have no doubt that some things are going to go up and hours are going to be cut and some people will lose their jobs. But I'm hoping that it means a better standard of living for a larger majority of the population.
posted by Fizz at 7:47 AM on January 10, 2018 [8 favorites]
I've long disliked and avoided Tim Horton's because of the way they treat their workers. That their coffee is crap only makes it easier for me to avoid giving my money to them. None of this is really surprising though.
I've already noticed prices of certain goods and services going up (haircut and oil-change to just name two I experienced personally) as a result of the $14 minimum wage increase but you know what....people need to be paid enough to put food on their table. I'm ok with this.
It's not going to be easy for business owners and I say this as someone who struggled to run a hotel for many years that ultimately failed. I have no doubt that some things are going to go up and hours are going to be cut and some people will lose their jobs. But I'm hoping that it means a better standard of living for a larger majority of the population.
posted by Fizz at 7:47 AM on January 10, 2018 [8 favorites]
Even $14/hr is really not enough to make a living wage, imo, but it's a start. And any business--not just Timmie's--that complains it has to pay their employees more to try to survive makes me side-eye you. I do have sympathy for the small retailer as someone who worked for small retailers, but man, I could have used $14/hr when I was 25 and working $8/hr plus tips to pay rent and utilities. It would have been something, at least.
posted by Kitteh at 7:51 AM on January 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 7:51 AM on January 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
Even assuming capitalism (which... eh), the idea that labor -- any labor, literally anything that somebody wants or needs done -- shouldn't come with civilized working conditions and a living wage as a matter of course is disgusting. Skirting the law to avoid incremental baby steps toward that ideal is a crime against the social contract.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:54 AM on January 10, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 7:54 AM on January 10, 2018 [16 favorites]
Nearest Tim Horton's to me seemed bunker like. The area was probably better off when a White Castle's was there.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:58 AM on January 10, 2018
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:58 AM on January 10, 2018
Tim Hortons has branded itself as being more Canadian than politeness and maple syrup. Weirdly, they've been successful at that up until this point, and often get treated as though they were a national institution.
It's like a national delusion at this point. With regard to the wage increase, it's helpful to know that the average net profit for a Tim's franchise store is apparently about $250,000 annually, and most franchisees own multiple locations.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 8:02 AM on January 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
It's like a national delusion at this point. With regard to the wage increase, it's helpful to know that the average net profit for a Tim's franchise store is apparently about $250,000 annually, and most franchisees own multiple locations.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 8:02 AM on January 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
Ugh, this is awful. I used to love getting a small coffee and a single timbit as soon as I got off the plane every time I went back home up north. I know that's not, like, a big slice out of their profits, but they're not getting it from me any more.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 8:04 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by everybody had matching towels at 8:04 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's like a national delusion at this point.
Let's stick to talking about Tim Horton's and not hockey.
;-)
posted by Fizz at 8:05 AM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Let's stick to talking about Tim Horton's and not hockey.
;-)
posted by Fizz at 8:05 AM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Tim Hortons has branded itself as being more Canadian than politeness and maple syrup. Weirdly, they've been successful at that up until this point, and often get treated as though they were a national institution.
Canadian NT Edward Keenan on the corporate efforts to brand itself as true Canadiana.
Tim Horton's
And please: it is Tim Hortons [sic]. They discarded the apostrophe with the circa-1996 rebrand when "donuts" came off the signs. It is odd: if you ask a hundred people who grew up in Canada to name a place that sells donuts, 97 will say Tim Hortons. In fact, they barely trouble to do this any more and when I last looked at their website, you had to dive four clicks deep before you found the word, somewhere under 'baked goods.'
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:07 AM on January 10, 2018
Canadian NT Edward Keenan on the corporate efforts to brand itself as true Canadiana.
Tim Horton's
And please: it is Tim Hortons [sic]. They discarded the apostrophe with the circa-1996 rebrand when "donuts" came off the signs. It is odd: if you ask a hundred people who grew up in Canada to name a place that sells donuts, 97 will say Tim Hortons. In fact, they barely trouble to do this any more and when I last looked at their website, you had to dive four clicks deep before you found the word, somewhere under 'baked goods.'
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:07 AM on January 10, 2018
Tim Horton's
And please: it is Tim Hortons [sic]. They discarded the apostrophe with the circa-1996 rebrand
If it helps, I mostly refer to them as Timmy Hos in real life.
posted by Fizz at 8:09 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
And please: it is Tim Hortons [sic]. They discarded the apostrophe with the circa-1996 rebrand
If it helps, I mostly refer to them as Timmy Hos in real life.
posted by Fizz at 8:09 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
I literally have never been to a Cracker Barrel because of their treatment of LGBT workers back in the, what was it, the 1990s?
Carl's Jr. once served me a burger that had no burger in it, it was just a bun with condiments. I haven't been back there since, easily 20 years ago.
I have other places that don't exist for me. I have no problem with editing corporations from my life. It's a good skill to have.
posted by hippybear at 8:09 AM on January 10, 2018 [16 favorites]
Carl's Jr. once served me a burger that had no burger in it, it was just a bun with condiments. I haven't been back there since, easily 20 years ago.
I have other places that don't exist for me. I have no problem with editing corporations from my life. It's a good skill to have.
posted by hippybear at 8:09 AM on January 10, 2018 [16 favorites]
Serious question: what is the insurance the employees are getting from the franchise owner?
posted by Big Al 8000 at 8:10 AM on January 10, 2018
posted by Big Al 8000 at 8:10 AM on January 10, 2018
Serious question: what is the insurance the employees are getting from the franchise owner?
I would assume some combination of prescription, eye care, dentistry, travel, paramedical services and private hospital room upgrades.
posted by jeather at 8:16 AM on January 10, 2018
I would assume some combination of prescription, eye care, dentistry, travel, paramedical services and private hospital room upgrades.
posted by jeather at 8:16 AM on January 10, 2018
"...and private hospital room upgrades"That seems highly unlikely. Semi-private at best.
posted by howling fantods at 8:21 AM on January 10, 2018
IMO, the employees affected are largely casualties in a year(s)-long fight between the franchise owners and their new corporate master RBI/3G Capital. Both are to blame for this mess. RBI has not changed how much they charge their franchisees and they have not allowed the franchises to raise prices as a result of the change. The franchise owners, not wanting to allow RBI to dip into their pockets, have gone after (non-required) benefits and even tips.
RBI are bastards because they're using the increase in wages as the latest tactic (one of many) to squeeze their franchise owners. They're insulated from cost increases, and, next time the franchise contracts get signed (apparently in a few years), this allows them to say that the right revenue split is now in their favour.
The franchise owners are bastards because they've been trading for decades now on their community spirit and "iconic" status in the Canadian value system (at least in anglo Canada). And they're now showing how hollow those ads were all along. It's particularly damning that the founders children's franchise is the flashpoint for all of this.
The big winner are the provincial liberals, in my view. They've been looking for a bad guy to run against in the next election and now a bunch of nasty capitalists at Tim Hortons have conveniently painted a big target on their foreheads. Kathleen Wynne loves a bare-knuckle fight. Watch her turn this into re-election.
posted by bonehead at 8:22 AM on January 10, 2018 [19 favorites]
RBI are bastards because they're using the increase in wages as the latest tactic (one of many) to squeeze their franchise owners. They're insulated from cost increases, and, next time the franchise contracts get signed (apparently in a few years), this allows them to say that the right revenue split is now in their favour.
The franchise owners are bastards because they've been trading for decades now on their community spirit and "iconic" status in the Canadian value system (at least in anglo Canada). And they're now showing how hollow those ads were all along. It's particularly damning that the founders children's franchise is the flashpoint for all of this.
The big winner are the provincial liberals, in my view. They've been looking for a bad guy to run against in the next election and now a bunch of nasty capitalists at Tim Hortons have conveniently painted a big target on their foreheads. Kathleen Wynne loves a bare-knuckle fight. Watch her turn this into re-election.
posted by bonehead at 8:22 AM on January 10, 2018 [19 favorites]
I mean, I agree with boycotts of businesses with bad practices. But why on earth would you assume that an independent coffee shop treats its employees well unless they're posting their employment contracts in the window? Assuming that a small family business is even abiding by labor laws seems even more foolish to me.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:27 AM on January 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:27 AM on January 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
One of the better comments I've seen about Ontario's minimum wage hike - and I can't cite the source, but I saw it somewhere online - has been along the lines of "Well, if Ontario's business community hadn't lobbied against larger incremental increases to the minimum wage for years, there would be no need for a more pronounced increase right now."
Enjoy Historical minimum wage rates in Canada from Employment and Social Development Canada.
Here's Ontario for the last 7 years:
Ontario 1-Oct-17 $11.60
Ontario 1-Oct-16 $11.40
Ontario 1-Oct-15 $11.25
Ontario 1-Jun-14 $11.00
Ontario 31-Mar-10 $10.25
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:31 AM on January 10, 2018 [12 favorites]
Enjoy Historical minimum wage rates in Canada from Employment and Social Development Canada.
Here's Ontario for the last 7 years:
Ontario 1-Oct-17 $11.60
Ontario 1-Oct-16 $11.40
Ontario 1-Oct-15 $11.25
Ontario 1-Jun-14 $11.00
Ontario 31-Mar-10 $10.25
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:31 AM on January 10, 2018 [12 favorites]
But why on earth would you assume that an independent coffee shop treats its employees well unless they're posting their employment contracts in the window?
For at least a couple of decades Tims has been holding itself up as the quintessentially Canadian shop, a reflection and even caretaker of social values, including compassion, humility and a strong sense of community. They've done this through TV advertising, and charitable campaigns and sponsoring every kids sports team who walks in their door.
I don't know that there's an American company that has managed an equal mindshare in the same way, as a representative and caretaker of US values.
posted by bonehead at 8:32 AM on January 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
For at least a couple of decades Tims has been holding itself up as the quintessentially Canadian shop, a reflection and even caretaker of social values, including compassion, humility and a strong sense of community. They've done this through TV advertising, and charitable campaigns and sponsoring every kids sports team who walks in their door.
I don't know that there's an American company that has managed an equal mindshare in the same way, as a representative and caretaker of US values.
posted by bonehead at 8:32 AM on January 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
Canadians' continued emotional attachment to this franchise is a triumph of their marketing, which has done a great job of obscuring the fact that it's owned by "Restaurant Brands International," which is somewhat less warm-'n'-cozy than the image they like to project of your friendly neighbourhood coffee shop and meeting place.
The coffee (which tastes like coffee the way a Big Mac tastes like a hamburger) and food (the "meat" in the chili has bits of rubbery stuff I assume is...gristle? from the lowest-possible-grade beef they use) are terrible, but that's a matter of personal taste and millions of Canadians would apparently disagree.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:33 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
The coffee (which tastes like coffee the way a Big Mac tastes like a hamburger) and food (the "meat" in the chili has bits of rubbery stuff I assume is...gristle? from the lowest-possible-grade beef they use) are terrible, but that's a matter of personal taste and millions of Canadians would apparently disagree.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:33 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't be at all surprised if RBI sold Tim Hortons now, as the reason for them to exist — being a Canadian parent for Burger King and thus have lower corporate taxes than in the US — has gone away with Trump's corporate welfare tax bonanza.
Everything that I really like from Tim Hortons has gone away. Can someone pay me to really like double doubles and staleish donuts? I'll even eat the chocolate ones, even though chocolate makes me puke.
posted by scruss at 8:35 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Everything that I really like from Tim Hortons has gone away. Can someone pay me to really like double doubles and staleish donuts? I'll even eat the chocolate ones, even though chocolate makes me puke.
posted by scruss at 8:35 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
But why on earth would you assume that an independent coffee shop treats its employees well unless they're posting their employment contracts in the window?
I agree. I worked for a small coffee shop and that meant that I was exempt from protections like the FMLA (this was in the US). And the management was not... great ... at times.
But the bigger shops have more power. Their decisions directly affect more employees, but can also affect the environment for people at those smaller shop because they have more power to set norms around the work.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:36 AM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
I agree. I worked for a small coffee shop and that meant that I was exempt from protections like the FMLA (this was in the US). And the management was not... great ... at times.
But the bigger shops have more power. Their decisions directly affect more employees, but can also affect the environment for people at those smaller shop because they have more power to set norms around the work.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:36 AM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Parenthetically, one of the reasons Tims has gone to (even more) shit since the RBI takeover is that McDonalds stole their old coffee supplier. So If you want the old Tims taste, you're better off going to a McCafe shop now, anyway.
posted by bonehead at 8:38 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 8:38 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Tim Hortons has branded itself as being more Canadian than politeness and maple syrup.
Which is funny - because they haven't been Canadian-owned since 2014.
They preferred not even hiring "Canadians" for awhile, and were heavy users of the "Temporary Foreign Worker (TFW)" program...
...they'd better raise the quality of their coffee so that they can compete with McDonald's....
In 2013 Tim Hortons introduced it's "dark roast", at the same time switching away from it's previous coffee supplier (Mother Parkers) - guess who then started sourcing their coffee from that supplier?
They took away their drive-through garbage cans... Yet, they have poor packaging choices overall. (Does one really need a wrap protected by a cardboard sleeve... But McDonalds has the same, so...)
They haven't made "Always Fresh" donuts on-site since 2002...
You know why they don't have a problem "throwing out" a pot of coffee after 20 minutes? Because, it just gets dumped into a container to make "iced coffee" with later... Yummy...
They have seen their profits increasing by over 100 million a year (at least) for the last few years and they are going to pull this crap?
...egg mcmuffin is the technical pinnacle of the breakfast sandwich...
What the final "nail in the coffin" for Timmies for me was, last summer - someone posted an image on Reddit (sorry, tried to find it) of how they prepare their "eggs" for breakfast sandwiches... The are shipped frozen "egg patties", and at the begining of the day, line a garbage bin with a bag, and throw them into there to thaw, before they are re-heated when you order them.... Yum, rubbery egg "goodness"...
So - personally - I am done with them.
posted by jkaczor at 8:41 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Which is funny - because they haven't been Canadian-owned since 2014.
They preferred not even hiring "Canadians" for awhile, and were heavy users of the "Temporary Foreign Worker (TFW)" program...
...they'd better raise the quality of their coffee so that they can compete with McDonald's....
In 2013 Tim Hortons introduced it's "dark roast", at the same time switching away from it's previous coffee supplier (Mother Parkers) - guess who then started sourcing their coffee from that supplier?
They took away their drive-through garbage cans... Yet, they have poor packaging choices overall. (Does one really need a wrap protected by a cardboard sleeve... But McDonalds has the same, so...)
They haven't made "Always Fresh" donuts on-site since 2002...
You know why they don't have a problem "throwing out" a pot of coffee after 20 minutes? Because, it just gets dumped into a container to make "iced coffee" with later... Yummy...
They have seen their profits increasing by over 100 million a year (at least) for the last few years and they are going to pull this crap?
...egg mcmuffin is the technical pinnacle of the breakfast sandwich...
What the final "nail in the coffin" for Timmies for me was, last summer - someone posted an image on Reddit (sorry, tried to find it) of how they prepare their "eggs" for breakfast sandwiches... The are shipped frozen "egg patties", and at the begining of the day, line a garbage bin with a bag, and throw them into there to thaw, before they are re-heated when you order them.... Yum, rubbery egg "goodness"...
So - personally - I am done with them.
posted by jkaczor at 8:41 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Tims has been holding itself up as the quintessentially Canadian shop, a reflection and even caretaker of social values, including compassion, humility and a strong sense of community.
Our politicians have been all too eager to shore this up and ride on those coattails. Who can forget Stephen Harper famously having a hot chocolate at a campaign stop at a Tims. I wish they'd stop.
Tims have been dead to me since they stopped making doughnuts on site and the introduction of their f'in "steeped tea".
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:44 AM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Our politicians have been all too eager to shore this up and ride on those coattails. Who can forget Stephen Harper famously having a hot chocolate at a campaign stop at a Tims. I wish they'd stop.
Tims have been dead to me since they stopped making doughnuts on site and the introduction of their f'in "steeped tea".
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:44 AM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
McDonalds stole their old coffee supplier
No - they chose not to use their old supplier, to cut costs and increase profits.
posted by jkaczor at 8:45 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
No - they chose not to use their old supplier, to cut costs and increase profits.
posted by jkaczor at 8:45 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
IMO, the employees affected are largely casualties in a year(s)-long fight between the franchise owners and their new corporate master RBI/3G Capital. Both are to blame for this mess. RBI has not changed how much they charge their franchisees and they have not allowed the franchises to raise prices as a result of the change. The franchise owners, not wanting to allow RBI to dip into their pockets, have gone after (non-required) benefits and even tips
For the antipodean version of this, see the continuing saga of Retail Food Group, in which an Australian franchise consolidator has been putting the screws on franchisees in a tough business market, allegedly leading to wage underpayment, business failures, and other funny business.
posted by zamboni at 8:45 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
For the antipodean version of this, see the continuing saga of Retail Food Group, in which an Australian franchise consolidator has been putting the screws on franchisees in a tough business market, allegedly leading to wage underpayment, business failures, and other funny business.
posted by zamboni at 8:45 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Starbucks inside and then there is another Starbucks in the parking lot outside the grocery store, and then another Starbucks across the street
At one point, it was pretty bad in Vancouver.... two Starbucks diagonally across the intersection from each other...
posted by jkaczor at 8:50 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
At one point, it was pretty bad in Vancouver.... two Starbucks diagonally across the intersection from each other...
posted by jkaczor at 8:50 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
> They have seen their profits increasing by over 100 million a year (at least) for the last few years and they are going to pull this crap?
My sister and a few of her co-workers got laid off by Scotiabank last year; the same week a manager gave the staff a speech about challenges and belt-tightening and all that, the bank reported a quarterly profit in the billions. She said it would have been less insulting if they just said "Fuck you, that's why."
> Starbucks inside and then there is another Starbucks in the parking lot outside the grocery store, and then another Starbucks across the street
Back in the '90s, when they got bought out by Wendy's or whoever owned Wendy's or whatever and started aggressively expanding - I remember people joking that Tim Horton's was probably going to start opening kiosks inside other coffee shops.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:58 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
My sister and a few of her co-workers got laid off by Scotiabank last year; the same week a manager gave the staff a speech about challenges and belt-tightening and all that, the bank reported a quarterly profit in the billions. She said it would have been less insulting if they just said "Fuck you, that's why."
> Starbucks inside and then there is another Starbucks in the parking lot outside the grocery store, and then another Starbucks across the street
Back in the '90s, when they got bought out by Wendy's or whoever owned Wendy's or whatever and started aggressively expanding - I remember people joking that Tim Horton's was probably going to start opening kiosks inside other coffee shops.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:58 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Everything that I really like from Tim Hortons has gone away.
Psst! Check out Grandad's in Hamilton. Walnut Crunches as you remember them -- crunchy, and the size of a brick.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:15 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Psst! Check out Grandad's in Hamilton. Walnut Crunches as you remember them -- crunchy, and the size of a brick.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:15 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
My sister and a few of her co-workers got laid off by Scotiabank last year; the same week a manager gave the staff a speech about challenges and belt-tightening and all that, the bank reported a quarterly profit in the billions. She said it would have been less insulting if they just said "Fuck you, that's why."
I am in utter disgust at where we seem to be currently - and headed for - capitalism is the new feudalism...
There is an active hatred for the middle-class - if you are not a shareholder/landowner, you have no rights and shouldn't complain about the meager crumbs handed out...
But... this does seem to be worse here in the province of "Onterrible". Having lived both in the West and here, I see there is a constant push here by employers to cut corners, refuse reasonable wage increases and treat employee's as completely replaceable components. Perhaps it is simply due to larger population here, allowing people to be easily replaced - I dunno, but it is tiring. In Western Canada, people would jump for better opportunities - here, many people are terrified of leaving their employer, I just don't get it.
posted by jkaczor at 9:15 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I am in utter disgust at where we seem to be currently - and headed for - capitalism is the new feudalism...
There is an active hatred for the middle-class - if you are not a shareholder/landowner, you have no rights and shouldn't complain about the meager crumbs handed out...
But... this does seem to be worse here in the province of "Onterrible". Having lived both in the West and here, I see there is a constant push here by employers to cut corners, refuse reasonable wage increases and treat employee's as completely replaceable components. Perhaps it is simply due to larger population here, allowing people to be easily replaced - I dunno, but it is tiring. In Western Canada, people would jump for better opportunities - here, many people are terrified of leaving their employer, I just don't get it.
posted by jkaczor at 9:15 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Here in southern Ontario, all of Tim Hortons food products are made at this giant white windowless monolith in Guelph, and shipped out frozen every morning to franchises.
Fresh.
But this benefits dispute is really a dispute between the parent company who controls all prices, and the franchisees who control employee compensation. There's no good guy in this fight, just different degrees of rich ownership-class assholes trying to maximize their profits.
posted by rocket88 at 9:17 AM on January 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
Fresh.
But this benefits dispute is really a dispute between the parent company who controls all prices, and the franchisees who control employee compensation. There's no good guy in this fight, just different degrees of rich ownership-class assholes trying to maximize their profits.
posted by rocket88 at 9:17 AM on January 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
The increasing wage will clash head on with the perception consumers won't pay the higher prices. The consumers will still consume, but will it be less or 'quantitatively eased' as in creating food/drink at home. The attempt to bring in consumers will result in further automation efforts in the space with low hanging fruit being kiosk order/checkout automation, cell phone order apps, and finally people maintaining ""Automats".
Look at Olive Garden. McDonalds. The existence of Sysco in the automation of the food production vendor. And in the future Jack in the box
posted by rough ashlar at 9:24 AM on January 10, 2018
Look at Olive Garden. McDonalds. The existence of Sysco in the automation of the food production vendor. And in the future Jack in the box
posted by rough ashlar at 9:24 AM on January 10, 2018
"These changes are due to the increase of wages to $14.00 minimum wage on January 1, 2018, then $15.00 per hour on January 1, 2019, as well as the lack of assistance and financial help from our Head Office and from the Government."
How bad at running a business can these people be? I have never, never understood the whining from businesses that are required to pay a living wage to their employees. The business wouldn't exist without their employees.
It's always seemed that the solution is to adjust your pricing slightly. Raise the cost of coffee by a few cents, and move on. Saying why you're doing so is what social media excels at, you idiots. They could have turned this into a bit of national pride, a helping-your-fellow-Canadian type of thing, but instead squandered the immense good will they might have generated with the right positioning. Can you even imagine how effective a feel-good advert back at Christmas saying why the prices would rise slightly would have been? Idiots.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 9:29 AM on January 10, 2018 [8 favorites]
How bad at running a business can these people be? I have never, never understood the whining from businesses that are required to pay a living wage to their employees. The business wouldn't exist without their employees.
It's always seemed that the solution is to adjust your pricing slightly. Raise the cost of coffee by a few cents, and move on. Saying why you're doing so is what social media excels at, you idiots. They could have turned this into a bit of national pride, a helping-your-fellow-Canadian type of thing, but instead squandered the immense good will they might have generated with the right positioning. Can you even imagine how effective a feel-good advert back at Christmas saying why the prices would rise slightly would have been? Idiots.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 9:29 AM on January 10, 2018 [8 favorites]
It's like a national delusion at this point.
Let's stick to talking about Tim Horton's and not hockey.
/throws gloves to ice and starts circling
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:33 AM on January 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
Let's stick to talking about Tim Horton's and not hockey.
/throws gloves to ice and starts circling
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:33 AM on January 10, 2018 [9 favorites]
But why on earth would you assume that an independent coffee shop treats its employees well unless they're posting their employment contracts in the window? Assuming that a small family business is even abiding by labor laws seems even more foolish to me.
There is no guarantee, but with a locally owned business there is the prospect of your voice and your community being heard if you object to worker conditions - or anything else. That influence is utterly absent with huge corporations.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:37 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
There is no guarantee, but with a locally owned business there is the prospect of your voice and your community being heard if you object to worker conditions - or anything else. That influence is utterly absent with huge corporations.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:37 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Can you even imagine how effective a feel-good advert back at Christmas saying why the prices would rise slightly would have been?
The Brazilian owners at RBI are notoriously tightfisted. Quoth the Financial Post, when RBI acquired TH: "Brazilian private-equity firm 3G insists that executives at its businesses follow the investment group’s parsimonious practices."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:38 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
The Brazilian owners at RBI are notoriously tightfisted. Quoth the Financial Post, when RBI acquired TH: "Brazilian private-equity firm 3G insists that executives at its businesses follow the investment group’s parsimonious practices."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:38 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Taking away tips came after the news broke that breaks would no longer be paid at many franchises.
It's obvious Tim Hortons is trying to manipulate the government by punishing employees.
There are many cruelties, but usually they at least try to hide them. Tim Hortons is clearly openly, blatantly evil. I will never buy coffee there again.
(And it's true that McDonald's makes better coffee, but I still prefer Second Cup or Starbucks.)
posted by Yowser at 9:41 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
It's obvious Tim Hortons is trying to manipulate the government by punishing employees.
There are many cruelties, but usually they at least try to hide them. Tim Hortons is clearly openly, blatantly evil. I will never buy coffee there again.
(And it's true that McDonald's makes better coffee, but I still prefer Second Cup or Starbucks.)
posted by Yowser at 9:41 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
I should add that Tim Hortons doesn't even have a culture of tipping, so explicitly taking away tips is especially brazen.
posted by Yowser at 9:42 AM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 9:42 AM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow: Their attack on their own workers is uncanadian, and if they want to behave like the worst stereotype of a malevolent American megacorp they'd better raise the quality of their coffee so that they can compete with McDonald's.
Tim Horton's is a malevolent American megacorp...they're just not a malevolent United States megacrop.
posted by Smart Dalek at 9:44 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Tim Horton's is a malevolent American megacorp...they're just not a malevolent United States megacrop.
posted by Smart Dalek at 9:44 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Maybe a French Canadian can confirm this for me, I've heard McDonald's coffee referred to as jus de chaussette.
posted by adept256 at 9:46 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 9:46 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
The increasing wage will clash head on with the perception consumers won't pay the higher prices. The consumers will still consume, but will it be less or 'quantitatively eased' as in creating food/drink at home.
A large group of those consumers just got a healthy raise to $14/hour, and the short list of items people spend more on when they have an extra couple of bucks in their pocket includes meals and snacks outside of the home.
Restaurateurs who are opposing this minimum wage hike are shortsighted at best.
posted by rocket88 at 10:04 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
A large group of those consumers just got a healthy raise to $14/hour, and the short list of items people spend more on when they have an extra couple of bucks in their pocket includes meals and snacks outside of the home.
Restaurateurs who are opposing this minimum wage hike are shortsighted at best.
posted by rocket88 at 10:04 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
The Brazilian owners at RBI are notoriously tightfisted.
posted by bonehead at 10:11 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
At Burger King, 3G did away with comfortable offices that top executives and their secretaries had enjoyed, which people at Burger King called Mahogany Row. Executives now sit in a bare-bones, open-plan office.The hedge-funds stockholders are impoverishing management as management has seen free to do to the workers for the past three decades. On the one hand, there's a lot of well-deserved schadenfreude---welcome to the cube farm suckers!---on the other, more than a little disquiet at the further hollowing-out of a well-balanced society by unfettered renteir capitalists.
posted by bonehead at 10:11 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sad as it is, Tim Hortons really is the most iconic Canadian thing in existence. Also sad - the franchise is named after a man who killed himself driving drunk. I drive by the crash site almost every day (and of course there's a Tims about a block from it).
posted by davebush at 10:14 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by davebush at 10:14 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
I don't know that there's an American company that has managed an equal mindshare in the same way, as a representative and caretaker of US values.
Wal-Mart did. Back when the brand used a dash between Wal and Mart. VS the star. Or the asterisk. You can still find people who think that.
The power of propaganda* is able to drive behaviour.
*now called public relations. It got a "branding change" because of some negative connotations a while ago.
posted by rough ashlar at 10:22 AM on January 10, 2018
Wal-Mart did. Back when the brand used a dash between Wal and Mart. VS the star. Or the asterisk. You can still find people who think that.
The power of propaganda* is able to drive behaviour.
*now called public relations. It got a "branding change" because of some negative connotations a while ago.
posted by rough ashlar at 10:22 AM on January 10, 2018
Ah, 3G Capital...also the architects of the Canadian Heinz ketchup debacle!
The what?
tl;dr:
Heinz, owned by 3G/Berkshire, decided to close their ketchup plant in Leamington, Ontario. Agriculture and food processing is critical to local economies* in that part of Ontario (How important? I mean, Stompin' Tom Connors wrote a song about Leamington and ketchup). Heinz's competitors began to tout the Canadian-ness of their respective ketchups with varying degrees of accuracy.
* Not to derail, but this is related to wages and labour in Ontario: El Contrato is a documentary that looks at the reliance on migrant labour in Leamington and surrounding areas to bring in the tomato harvest and is well worth a watch if that interests you.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:22 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
The what?
tl;dr:
Heinz, owned by 3G/Berkshire, decided to close their ketchup plant in Leamington, Ontario. Agriculture and food processing is critical to local economies* in that part of Ontario (How important? I mean, Stompin' Tom Connors wrote a song about Leamington and ketchup). Heinz's competitors began to tout the Canadian-ness of their respective ketchups with varying degrees of accuracy.
* Not to derail, but this is related to wages and labour in Ontario: El Contrato is a documentary that looks at the reliance on migrant labour in Leamington and surrounding areas to bring in the tomato harvest and is well worth a watch if that interests you.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:22 AM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Their attack on their own workers is uncanadian,
not really, just not as bad as what's come to be expected in the US of A. Which, if Canadians were truly honest, would probably be on our official seal or whatever (translated to Latin, of course). "Not quite as bad as the United States".
posted by philip-random at 10:24 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
not really, just not as bad as what's come to be expected in the US of A. Which, if Canadians were truly honest, would probably be on our official seal or whatever (translated to Latin, of course). "Not quite as bad as the United States".
posted by philip-random at 10:24 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Let's stick to talking about Tim Horton's and not hockey
Or just Tim Horton. If the donuts were one-tenth as good (and they used to be), I'd be lining up today.
posted by philip-random at 10:28 AM on January 10, 2018
Or just Tim Horton. If the donuts were one-tenth as good (and they used to be), I'd be lining up today.
posted by philip-random at 10:28 AM on January 10, 2018
Tim Hortons has branded itself as being more Canadian than politeness and maple syrup.
As are all things passed around from Wendy’s to Burger King to some Brazilian holding company.
Tim Hortons hasn’t been worth a damn since a) it started trucking in the donuts, b) it became a (canned) soup and (stale) sandwich shop, and c) it went non-smoking. I’m all for that last one, but the fact of the matter is that Tim Hortons only got popular in the first place because it was the only place in every town open 24 hours, and cheap as hell, so stoned/drunk teenagers would go hang out there to smoke on cold nights.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:51 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
As are all things passed around from Wendy’s to Burger King to some Brazilian holding company.
Tim Hortons hasn’t been worth a damn since a) it started trucking in the donuts, b) it became a (canned) soup and (stale) sandwich shop, and c) it went non-smoking. I’m all for that last one, but the fact of the matter is that Tim Hortons only got popular in the first place because it was the only place in every town open 24 hours, and cheap as hell, so stoned/drunk teenagers would go hang out there to smoke on cold nights.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:51 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Tim Hortons hasn’t been worth a damn since a) it started trucking in the donuts
I disagree completely. The quality improved when they started that.
posted by davebush at 10:56 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I disagree completely. The quality improved when they started that.
posted by davebush at 10:56 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Tim Horton's food is massively overrated - just like Dunkin Donuts.
Dunkin has culled its food menu and its donut menu over the holidays. It's barely Dunkin Donuts anymore. Hell, in SoCal they're testing stores just called Dunkin'.
I'm still pissed about losing the ciabatta at Dunkin. Americans are petrified of crusty but soft bread. Either it has to be squishy as hell to be soft or it has to be hard as hell sourdough who's inside feels like it's three days old.
I was just home and it was so good to have Baker's Delight again. The crust just breaks apart in shards and the bread itself was so soft and fluffy. I miss it so much.
posted by Talez at 10:59 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Dunkin has culled its food menu and its donut menu over the holidays. It's barely Dunkin Donuts anymore. Hell, in SoCal they're testing stores just called Dunkin'.
I'm still pissed about losing the ciabatta at Dunkin. Americans are petrified of crusty but soft bread. Either it has to be squishy as hell to be soft or it has to be hard as hell sourdough who's inside feels like it's three days old.
I was just home and it was so good to have Baker's Delight again. The crust just breaks apart in shards and the bread itself was so soft and fluffy. I miss it so much.
posted by Talez at 10:59 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
There are a surprising number of Tim Horton's in Dubai and elsewhere in the United Arab Emirates. As a recent visitor there I couldn't help but go a few times just for the seeming absurdity of it. Maybe my senses were excited by the adventure of travel, but to be honest the food seemed better than the average Tim's in Canada.
Anyway, every Internet thread takes place in a bizarro universe where everything is opposite. By the looks of this thread you'd think everyone hates Tim's. But actually go to Canada and the reverse is clearly true, to an almost comical degree.
posted by thebordella at 11:03 AM on January 10, 2018
Anyway, every Internet thread takes place in a bizarro universe where everything is opposite. By the looks of this thread you'd think everyone hates Tim's. But actually go to Canada and the reverse is clearly true, to an almost comical degree.
posted by thebordella at 11:03 AM on January 10, 2018
They're popular because they're cheap.
But not really because starbucks and McDonald's give you free refills.
(I'm not sure about second cup)
posted by Yowser at 11:08 AM on January 10, 2018
But not really because starbucks and McDonald's give you free refills.
(I'm not sure about second cup)
posted by Yowser at 11:08 AM on January 10, 2018
I wish I actually got coffee at Timmies so I could boycott them now, but I like my tastebuds too much.
But why on earth would you assume that an independent coffee shop treats its employees well unless they're posting their employment contracts in the window?
Well, one of my local independent coffee shops posted a sign last week saying they were raising the price of their coffee by a quarter to offset the increase in minimum wage. I have no problem with absorbing (likely part) of the increased labor cost.
As well, the two owners of this shop are also staff there, and I know them, and know that they are pretty decent people and would never do something like steal tips. I'm also friends with a couple of the people who work there, and they are fine with the working conditions there.
Of course, the whole reason I know these things is because the coffee shop is local and independent.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:09 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
But why on earth would you assume that an independent coffee shop treats its employees well unless they're posting their employment contracts in the window?
Well, one of my local independent coffee shops posted a sign last week saying they were raising the price of their coffee by a quarter to offset the increase in minimum wage. I have no problem with absorbing (likely part) of the increased labor cost.
As well, the two owners of this shop are also staff there, and I know them, and know that they are pretty decent people and would never do something like steal tips. I'm also friends with a couple of the people who work there, and they are fine with the working conditions there.
Of course, the whole reason I know these things is because the coffee shop is local and independent.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:09 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Psst! Check out Grandad's in Hamilton. Walnut Crunches as you remember them -- crunchy, and the size of a brick.
Can confirm, born and raised in Hamilton. But do they taste like cigarettes?
posted by hearthpig at 11:14 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Can confirm, born and raised in Hamilton. But do they taste like cigarettes?
posted by hearthpig at 11:14 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
What the final "nail in the coffin" for Timmies for me was, last summer - someone posted an image on Reddit (sorry, tried to find it) of how they prepare their "eggs" for breakfast sandwiches... The are shipped frozen "egg patties", and at the begining of the day, line a garbage bin with a bag, and throw them into there to thaw, before they are re-heated when you order them.... Yum, rubbery egg "goodness"...
Something of an aside, but I highly recommend everyone read "Twinkie, deconstructed", a book where each chapter talks in detail about the industrial food process origin of each ingredient on the twinkie wrapper, in order.
The chapter on eggs discusses, among other wonderful things including the making of premade "scrambled" or "fried egg" "patties", a process by which mixed egg liquid is steam treated for a few seconds in a pipe to prepare it for long term storage and sale, and as a chemical engineer who works in the food sector I thought, "woog, that's a bear of a process control problem, bet it's finicky" and the very next sentence explains how the pipe has cleanouts at either end because every now and again the steam control loop screws up and makes several feet of tubular omelette.
posted by hearthpig at 11:18 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Something of an aside, but I highly recommend everyone read "Twinkie, deconstructed", a book where each chapter talks in detail about the industrial food process origin of each ingredient on the twinkie wrapper, in order.
The chapter on eggs discusses, among other wonderful things including the making of premade "scrambled" or "fried egg" "patties", a process by which mixed egg liquid is steam treated for a few seconds in a pipe to prepare it for long term storage and sale, and as a chemical engineer who works in the food sector I thought, "woog, that's a bear of a process control problem, bet it's finicky" and the very next sentence explains how the pipe has cleanouts at either end because every now and again the steam control loop screws up and makes several feet of tubular omelette.
posted by hearthpig at 11:18 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Tim Hortons hasn’t been worth a damn since a) it started trucking in the donuts
I disagree completely. The quality improved when they started that.
does anyone have a proper Tim Hortons timeline in this regard? The decline and fall of what were once excellent goods, baked in store.
Way back when (up until at least the mid-1990s), Tim Hortons were few and far between in my region (British Columbia's Lower Mainland). I knew of exactly two franchises. One was way out in Surrey (King George Highway somewhere), the other in deepest darkest Burnaby (Kingsway, past what would eventually become Metrotown). Now, I wasn't much of a coffee aficionado in those days so can't really comment there, but the donuts were delicious, the best to be had anywhere that I was aware of. Well worth a side trip. In fact, I recall a phase in the very early 1980s when we'd smoke a little dope, wait for the munchies to start kicking, pile into a car* and drive half an hour just for the pleasure of ... well, in my case it was always a double chocolate donut, an apple fritter ... and maybe something else if I was feeling particularly munchie.
* yes, stoned driving was definitely a thing for at least three decades of my life, never had an incident
posted by philip-random at 12:06 PM on January 10, 2018
I disagree completely. The quality improved when they started that.
does anyone have a proper Tim Hortons timeline in this regard? The decline and fall of what were once excellent goods, baked in store.
Way back when (up until at least the mid-1990s), Tim Hortons were few and far between in my region (British Columbia's Lower Mainland). I knew of exactly two franchises. One was way out in Surrey (King George Highway somewhere), the other in deepest darkest Burnaby (Kingsway, past what would eventually become Metrotown). Now, I wasn't much of a coffee aficionado in those days so can't really comment there, but the donuts were delicious, the best to be had anywhere that I was aware of. Well worth a side trip. In fact, I recall a phase in the very early 1980s when we'd smoke a little dope, wait for the munchies to start kicking, pile into a car* and drive half an hour just for the pleasure of ... well, in my case it was always a double chocolate donut, an apple fritter ... and maybe something else if I was feeling particularly munchie.
* yes, stoned driving was definitely a thing for at least three decades of my life, never had an incident
posted by philip-random at 12:06 PM on January 10, 2018
Can confirm, born and raised in Hamilton. But do they taste like cigarettes?
A bit. They're not smoked as such, but the aroma is so steeped in the formica that it'll always be there.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:20 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
A bit. They're not smoked as such, but the aroma is so steeped in the formica that it'll always be there.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:20 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
→ Check out Grandad's in Hamilton. Walnut Crunches as you remember them
Does not appeal. Walnuts used for anything but coffee walnut cake is a waste. Also, I don't think I've been here long enough to remember those at Tim's. But I do remember beef stew in a bread bowl, grrrr.
Also, I have the (only?) Robin's in Southern Ontario near me. Yes, their coffee is terrible too, but it's not Tim's.
posted by scruss at 12:43 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Does not appeal. Walnuts used for anything but coffee walnut cake is a waste. Also, I don't think I've been here long enough to remember those at Tim's. But I do remember beef stew in a bread bowl, grrrr.
Also, I have the (only?) Robin's in Southern Ontario near me. Yes, their coffee is terrible too, but it's not Tim's.
posted by scruss at 12:43 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
There was a Tim's beside the hockey arena where I practiced as a kid in Sarnia, Ont., and if my dad or grandfather weren't there when practice ended my instructions were to go there and wait; I was usually the only person in there who wasn't an old man smoking and/or reading the newspaper (of course, back then everyone over the age of 15 was smoking everywhere, all the time).
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:44 PM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:44 PM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Well, the air is probably better in a smoke-filled Tim Hortons than in open-air Sarnia, so, hey.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:49 PM on January 10, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 12:49 PM on January 10, 2018 [8 favorites]
...they'd better raise the quality of their coffee so that they can compete with McDonald's.
I've been listening to people bang on about Tim Horton's and fucking bear claws or whatever the hell for years now and you're telling me their coffee isn't even as good as McDonald's?
(To be fair, Maccas has lifted their coffee game quite significantly over the past couple of years.)
posted by turbid dahlia at 1:43 PM on January 10, 2018
I've been listening to people bang on about Tim Horton's and fucking bear claws or whatever the hell for years now and you're telling me their coffee isn't even as good as McDonald's?
(To be fair, Maccas has lifted their coffee game quite significantly over the past couple of years.)
posted by turbid dahlia at 1:43 PM on January 10, 2018
you're telling me their coffee isn't even as good as McDonald's?
Hand on heart.
I mean, I drink my coffee black, so I've got no means of mitigating crappy coffee. But as someone who buys freshly roasted beans for home, and runs them through the grinder right before making coffee, I find McDonald's coffee is perfectly drinkable and nothing to turn my nose up at. If I'm travelling and there's nothing but fast food options and I need my morning coffee, I'll cross eight lanes of traffic to take a McDonald's over a Tim Horton's coffee any day.
As others have said upthread, McDonald's coffee is way more consistent, too.
Add to that the smell of Tim Horton's stores (i.e., the modern-day smoke-free version) makes me flash back to long car trips as a kid, by the end of which my parent's car would reek of stale Tim Horton's coffee (they drank it out of big plastic Tim mugs) and stale farts.
So there's that too.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:12 PM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Hand on heart.
I mean, I drink my coffee black, so I've got no means of mitigating crappy coffee. But as someone who buys freshly roasted beans for home, and runs them through the grinder right before making coffee, I find McDonald's coffee is perfectly drinkable and nothing to turn my nose up at. If I'm travelling and there's nothing but fast food options and I need my morning coffee, I'll cross eight lanes of traffic to take a McDonald's over a Tim Horton's coffee any day.
As others have said upthread, McDonald's coffee is way more consistent, too.
Add to that the smell of Tim Horton's stores (i.e., the modern-day smoke-free version) makes me flash back to long car trips as a kid, by the end of which my parent's car would reek of stale Tim Horton's coffee (they drank it out of big plastic Tim mugs) and stale farts.
So there's that too.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:12 PM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Their attack on their own workers is uncanadian
It's as Canadian as Walmart, as Canadian as Galen Weston. Or Justin Trudeau, who thinks raising minimum wage is a bad idea.
I like that this is making some noise, but I can tell you that amongst my blue-collar coworkers the only thing anyone is saying about the minimum wage increase is that its going to make their lives more difficult, and the garbage cans are overflowing with paper cups from Tims. I'd love to see them bleed over this but I'd bet it's forgotten as soon as they bring back Rrroll up the rim. Fucking guillotines, man.
posted by rodlymight at 2:31 PM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
It's as Canadian as Walmart, as Canadian as Galen Weston. Or Justin Trudeau, who thinks raising minimum wage is a bad idea.
I like that this is making some noise, but I can tell you that amongst my blue-collar coworkers the only thing anyone is saying about the minimum wage increase is that its going to make their lives more difficult, and the garbage cans are overflowing with paper cups from Tims. I'd love to see them bleed over this but I'd bet it's forgotten as soon as they bring back Rrroll up the rim. Fucking guillotines, man.
posted by rodlymight at 2:31 PM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
you're telling me their coffee isn't even as good as McDonald's?
Yeah, most people who drink Timmies just want something caffeinated that they can flavor with too much cream and sugar. There's a reason why double-double is a thing here.
Personally, I like my coffee crisp.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:34 PM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yeah, most people who drink Timmies just want something caffeinated that they can flavor with too much cream and sugar. There's a reason why double-double is a thing here.
Personally, I like my coffee crisp.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:34 PM on January 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
My cousin's son used to work at Tim Horton's and he told us enough people ordered coffee with four creams and four sugars that their name for it was a "two by four."
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:40 PM on January 10, 2018
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:40 PM on January 10, 2018
McDonalds has had really good coffee for years, and I'm surprised more people don't know this.
posted by hippybear at 2:40 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 2:40 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
And I'm not talking their McCafe coffee drinks. I'm just talking like plain black coffee, two creams added. It's really good.
posted by hippybear at 2:41 PM on January 10, 2018
posted by hippybear at 2:41 PM on January 10, 2018
Someone in my office orders his coffee with 3 creams and 5 sugars. He also refuses to eat vegetables (or in his words "grass"). Everyday I marvel at his good health.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:48 PM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:48 PM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
i had two chocolate donuts at tim's in lansing, mi and they had this strange metallic taste to them - so did the coffee
that one's closed now - wasn't a good location
*sings*
"you said you didn't give a fuck about hortons ..."
posted by pyramid termite at 3:14 PM on January 10, 2018
that one's closed now - wasn't a good location
*sings*
"you said you didn't give a fuck about hortons ..."
posted by pyramid termite at 3:14 PM on January 10, 2018
Personally, I like my coffee crisp .
That's because...
It won't be long.
Before another one's gone.
Someone in my office orders his coffee with 3 creams and 5 sugars. He also refuses to eat vegetables (or in his words "grass"). Everyday I marvel at his good health.
So, on our long car trips up north, we would often stop in Parry Sound on Highway 69 for a bathroom break - this was way before they four-laned 69 at Parry Sound, and there was this Tim Horton's right beside the highway that always had a godawful lineup for the godawful bathrooms but it served two purposes - it allowed my parents to re-up the Tim mugs and let us kids pee.
Anyway. One time we were in there and a guy walked up to the counter and placed his order: "Large coffee. Half cream. Half coffee."
They gave it to him, even though the cream was probably blowing the cost structure of that particular sale all to hell.
It's known as the "Parry Sound Latte" in my head. I've tried to get that name to stick in family retellings of the story but everyone else insists on just saying "the half-cream guy in Parry Sound" or something equally uninspired.
Oh and. Speaking of washroom breaks - in my experience, McDonald's bathrooms are always way better than Tim Horton's bathrooms. Always.
If you have to deal with cleaning up that sort of horrorshow, you should be paid better than the absolute legal minimum.
It seems to be Tim's policy to have washroom capacity that's grossly mismatched with the average traffic a location experiences, and to have no staff scheduled to actually clean them, because the staff are pulling double duty serving the drive-thru on headsets while simultaneously having to serve people in-store.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:16 PM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
That's because...
It won't be long.
Before another one's gone.
Someone in my office orders his coffee with 3 creams and 5 sugars. He also refuses to eat vegetables (or in his words "grass"). Everyday I marvel at his good health.
So, on our long car trips up north, we would often stop in Parry Sound on Highway 69 for a bathroom break - this was way before they four-laned 69 at Parry Sound, and there was this Tim Horton's right beside the highway that always had a godawful lineup for the godawful bathrooms but it served two purposes - it allowed my parents to re-up the Tim mugs and let us kids pee.
Anyway. One time we were in there and a guy walked up to the counter and placed his order: "Large coffee. Half cream. Half coffee."
They gave it to him, even though the cream was probably blowing the cost structure of that particular sale all to hell.
It's known as the "Parry Sound Latte" in my head. I've tried to get that name to stick in family retellings of the story but everyone else insists on just saying "the half-cream guy in Parry Sound" or something equally uninspired.
Oh and. Speaking of washroom breaks - in my experience, McDonald's bathrooms are always way better than Tim Horton's bathrooms. Always.
If you have to deal with cleaning up that sort of horrorshow, you should be paid better than the absolute legal minimum.
It seems to be Tim's policy to have washroom capacity that's grossly mismatched with the average traffic a location experiences, and to have no staff scheduled to actually clean them, because the staff are pulling double duty serving the drive-thru on headsets while simultaneously having to serve people in-store.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:16 PM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
and they had this strange metallic taste to them
Just a warning: that anything that pyramid termite sees, hears, or reads is now being relayed back to the mothership.
posted by hippybear at 3:25 PM on January 10, 2018
Just a warning: that anything that pyramid termite sees, hears, or reads is now being relayed back to the mothership.
posted by hippybear at 3:25 PM on January 10, 2018
*sings*
"we want to take you cholly when we go"
posted by pyramid termite at 3:32 PM on January 10, 2018
"we want to take you cholly when we go"
posted by pyramid termite at 3:32 PM on January 10, 2018
I only drink my coffee black, so yeah, timmies coffee is grim. However, their steeped tea is excellent and by far the best tea you can get on the road. Everyone else seems to only do tepid water with a sad tea bag dunked in it. Timmies steeped tea is the real thing.
posted by fimbulvetr at 3:51 PM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 3:51 PM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
> staff are pulling double duty serving the drive-thru on headsets while simultaneously having to serve people in-store.
On top of everything else that sucks about Tim Hortons, any location I've been in with a drive-through has hella slow lines because the poor employees appear to have been told to serve the drive-through customers with a higher sense of urgency than those in-store (this is also true of Starbucks). And yeah, the bathrooms are often filthy and not at all a dependable pit stop the way McDonalds' are.
I've only been to a Tim Horton's twice in the U.S. (both times in Michigan), and each time they were so deserted compared to literally any Canadian location I thought something was wrong at first.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:05 PM on January 10, 2018
On top of everything else that sucks about Tim Hortons, any location I've been in with a drive-through has hella slow lines because the poor employees appear to have been told to serve the drive-through customers with a higher sense of urgency than those in-store (this is also true of Starbucks). And yeah, the bathrooms are often filthy and not at all a dependable pit stop the way McDonalds' are.
I've only been to a Tim Horton's twice in the U.S. (both times in Michigan), and each time they were so deserted compared to literally any Canadian location I thought something was wrong at first.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:05 PM on January 10, 2018
→ a "two by four."
That's a 4×4 in my neighbourhood.
There's a strangely old-fashioned Tim's near the bridge to Canada in Port Huron. Their coffee is quite different from Canadian Tim's: actually tastes of coffee, for one.
posted by scruss at 5:31 PM on January 10, 2018
That's a 4×4 in my neighbourhood.
There's a strangely old-fashioned Tim's near the bridge to Canada in Port Huron. Their coffee is quite different from Canadian Tim's: actually tastes of coffee, for one.
posted by scruss at 5:31 PM on January 10, 2018
we would often stop in Parry Sound on Highway 69 for a bathroom break
I can still remember that bathroom... Speaking of which, their bathrooms are the worst. Too small, always poorly maintained.
However, their steeped tea is excellent and by far the best tea you can get on the road.
Ugh, their steeped is literally the worst quality tea. Cheap, oversteeped, left to sit too long, reeks of Tims coffee and sadness. I'd happily take tea from Starbucks over that stuff.
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:43 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I can still remember that bathroom... Speaking of which, their bathrooms are the worst. Too small, always poorly maintained.
However, their steeped tea is excellent and by far the best tea you can get on the road.
Ugh, their steeped is literally the worst quality tea. Cheap, oversteeped, left to sit too long, reeks of Tims coffee and sadness. I'd happily take tea from Starbucks over that stuff.
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:43 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
When you are travelling in rural Canada, timmies are everywhere and Starbucks are not. I like my tea black and strong, so I don’t find it oversteeped. Each to their own I guess.
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:02 PM on January 10, 2018
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:02 PM on January 10, 2018
You are not alone, fimbulvetr. Tim's steeped tea is by far the best fast-food tea, in that it actually tastes like tea.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:02 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by saturday_morning at 8:02 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
any location I've been in with a drive-through has hella slow
A friend’s sister is a TH franchisee. Her store has one repeat customer who comes by every few weeks to pick up lunch for the office or the plant or whatever: dude pulls up to the drive-through and orders forty different sandwiches and soups and so forth and then pulls up to the window and waits for however long it takes to assemble the order.
Second time it happened, the owner was in the house and went out and talked to him, suggesting he maybe park in the parking area for a few minutes and they could bring his order out? Or better still, perhaps he could call in the order ahead of time and they could have it ready? He reacted pretty much as you might expect, and I think ultimately decided to take his business elsewhere, to another franchisee, and repeat, until he found himself Not Wanted At The Drive-thru.
til;DR – don’t go to the drive-through.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:03 PM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
A friend’s sister is a TH franchisee. Her store has one repeat customer who comes by every few weeks to pick up lunch for the office or the plant or whatever: dude pulls up to the drive-through and orders forty different sandwiches and soups and so forth and then pulls up to the window and waits for however long it takes to assemble the order.
Second time it happened, the owner was in the house and went out and talked to him, suggesting he maybe park in the parking area for a few minutes and they could bring his order out? Or better still, perhaps he could call in the order ahead of time and they could have it ready? He reacted pretty much as you might expect, and I think ultimately decided to take his business elsewhere, to another franchisee, and repeat, until he found himself Not Wanted At The Drive-thru.
til;DR – don’t go to the drive-through.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:03 PM on January 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
25 years ago we still had chains like Country Style, Coffee Time, Robin's, and of course Timmies all over the place. They all served donuts[1] made on-site or are least in-town, and of course donut shop coffee, which is not great coffee, but is better than diner coffee. As a country we loved these places.
Tim Hortons is the surviving chain, and so they get all our love. Year after year, as they started serving reheated garbage donuts, as their sandwich bread went from baguette to pseudo ciabatta to literally inert sponges, as their menu grew to a thousand items available in incomprehensible lunch combos, we kept loving them. We don't even want donuts anymore. We want coffee and a quick bite, and there are always better options, but still TH gets our love.
I hope these developments serve as our wake up call, as a country, to finally move on from Tim's.
[1] The best donut, available everywhere, was indeed the heavy, oily chocolate walnut bar thing.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 2:42 AM on January 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
Tim Hortons is the surviving chain, and so they get all our love. Year after year, as they started serving reheated garbage donuts, as their sandwich bread went from baguette to pseudo ciabatta to literally inert sponges, as their menu grew to a thousand items available in incomprehensible lunch combos, we kept loving them. We don't even want donuts anymore. We want coffee and a quick bite, and there are always better options, but still TH gets our love.
I hope these developments serve as our wake up call, as a country, to finally move on from Tim's.
[1] The best donut, available everywhere, was indeed the heavy, oily chocolate walnut bar thing.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 2:42 AM on January 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
I miss the competition from other chains and independent doughnut shops. A lot of them were better than Tims. When I lived in Guelph in the 90's, there was a gas station with an independent doughnut shop in it south of town just north of the 401. They had excellent sandwiches and made their own doughnuts which were fantastic - you just can't find doughnuts like that anymore. It was worth going out of your way to go there, and it was always busy. Then someone built a Tim Hortons across the road from the independent shop and within a year it was out of business.
There seems to be a trend for luxury fancy-pants doughnut shops, which are nice and all I guess if you like bacon and salted caramel or whatever on your doughnut and don't mind paying $4 a pop, but the basic old fashioned doughnut shop is pretty well a thing of the past.
posted by fimbulvetr at 7:22 AM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
There seems to be a trend for luxury fancy-pants doughnut shops, which are nice and all I guess if you like bacon and salted caramel or whatever on your doughnut and don't mind paying $4 a pop, but the basic old fashioned doughnut shop is pretty well a thing of the past.
posted by fimbulvetr at 7:22 AM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
25 years ago we still had chains like Country Style, Coffee Time, Robin's, and of course Timmies all over the place.
Back in the early 1980s, I can recall Country Style having a vast apple fritter the size of a catcher's mitt full of serious chunks of apple. Don't know how much of that is childhood nostalgia, and the doughnut seeming bigger because I was smaller, but I am positive that particular fresh-baked-in-house apple fritter was still pretty damn good.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:58 AM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Back in the early 1980s, I can recall Country Style having a vast apple fritter the size of a catcher's mitt full of serious chunks of apple. Don't know how much of that is childhood nostalgia, and the doughnut seeming bigger because I was smaller, but I am positive that particular fresh-baked-in-house apple fritter was still pretty damn good.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:58 AM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
(Looking at Google Maps, it seems Robin's isn't completely dead yet. There's 8 in Regina alone, and apparently a small one in a truck stop here in Calgary. And Regina even has a lone Country Style.)
But still, Tim's is somehow still part of our identity; it's Canada's favourite place. I can't see this dispute putting them out of business, but I hope it finally knocks some sense into us.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2018
But still, Tim's is somehow still part of our identity; it's Canada's favourite place. I can't see this dispute putting them out of business, but I hope it finally knocks some sense into us.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 8:59 AM on January 11, 2018
25 years ago we still had chains like Country Style, Coffee Time, Robin's, and of course Timmies all over the place.
There's also Timothy's. But it's also not very widespread in this part of Southern Ontario. Though I will never purchase from them. Many years ago before our family purchased our hotel, we considered a coffee shop franchise and at a potential investment meeting, some people representing Timothy's offered my dad coffee and he declined, he only drinks tea. They told him that they could not offer him the franchise because they only want coffee drinkers to be a part of the company or some such shit. My dad became outraged and walked out of the meeting right then and there.
posted by Fizz at 1:00 PM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
There's also Timothy's. But it's also not very widespread in this part of Southern Ontario. Though I will never purchase from them. Many years ago before our family purchased our hotel, we considered a coffee shop franchise and at a potential investment meeting, some people representing Timothy's offered my dad coffee and he declined, he only drinks tea. They told him that they could not offer him the franchise because they only want coffee drinkers to be a part of the company or some such shit. My dad became outraged and walked out of the meeting right then and there.
posted by Fizz at 1:00 PM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
(Looking at Google Maps, it seems Robin's isn't completely dead yet. There's 8 in Regina alone, and apparently a small one in a truck stop here in Calgary. And Regina even has a lone Country Style.)
In Ontario, Robin's seems to be clinging on to the north shore of Lake Superior as well. Thunder Bay still has 11 locations. My father-in-law has a daily coffee klatsch with his equally-retired cronies. They decided to change the venue from the local Robin's to the local A&W because the former has been getting a bit down-at-heel over the last several years (the Robin's is still there, though, and A&W is the only other game in town in the small Lake Superior town they live in).
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:15 PM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
In Ontario, Robin's seems to be clinging on to the north shore of Lake Superior as well. Thunder Bay still has 11 locations. My father-in-law has a daily coffee klatsch with his equally-retired cronies. They decided to change the venue from the local Robin's to the local A&W because the former has been getting a bit down-at-heel over the last several years (the Robin's is still there, though, and A&W is the only other game in town in the small Lake Superior town they live in).
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:15 PM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's funny how the Tim Hortons Brand set out to corner the market on Canadian patriotism (with horribly sucky and cloying TV adverts) and in the end kinda succeeded, seeing how former PM Stephen Harper liked to snuggle up to them in his own political branding exercises. But the Conservative Government of Canada days are over for now..
The whole thing about this glitch is income inequality, but the funny thing about this glitch is that it wouldn't have been a big deal if the Heirs/Franchise owners didn't make it a big deal: They could have gotten away easy with cutting benefits if they just phased it gradually over a period of months. But their problem was that they had to make a strong statement about min wage. And nothing makes blood boil more than listening to a greedy landlord complain about how tough they have it.
The Tim Hortons Brand is just hoping this thing will blow over, and it will, maybe until next time.
I don't like but I don't hate their product, out in the field it's sometimes the only thing that's available. The service is pretty good I think.
posted by ovvl at 1:19 PM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
The whole thing about this glitch is income inequality, but the funny thing about this glitch is that it wouldn't have been a big deal if the Heirs/Franchise owners didn't make it a big deal: They could have gotten away easy with cutting benefits if they just phased it gradually over a period of months. But their problem was that they had to make a strong statement about min wage. And nothing makes blood boil more than listening to a greedy landlord complain about how tough they have it.
The Tim Hortons Brand is just hoping this thing will blow over, and it will, maybe until next time.
I don't like but I don't hate their product, out in the field it's sometimes the only thing that's available. The service is pretty good I think.
posted by ovvl at 1:19 PM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Heh, seems like all the small towns have an A&W that was there before McDonalds and before TH. But A&W has changed with the times in a good way.
The Timothy's/Grabbajabbas I went to weren't donut shops so much as a more modern cafe/barista concept like Second Cup or Starbucks. Starbucks killed them in Alberta (1 location left), but it looks like they're still holding on in Ontario.
The Tim Hortons Brand is just hoping this thing will blow over, and it will, maybe until next time.
The business will still thrive, but I hope the damage is done to their reputation as Canadiana distilled.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 2:19 PM on January 11, 2018
The Timothy's/Grabbajabbas I went to weren't donut shops so much as a more modern cafe/barista concept like Second Cup or Starbucks. Starbucks killed them in Alberta (1 location left), but it looks like they're still holding on in Ontario.
The Tim Hortons Brand is just hoping this thing will blow over, and it will, maybe until next time.
The business will still thrive, but I hope the damage is done to their reputation as Canadiana distilled.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 2:19 PM on January 11, 2018
A lot of them were better than Tims. When I lived in Guelph in the 90's, there was a gas station with an independent doughnut shop in it south of town just north of the 401.
That was sad when that closed. Those doughnuts were pretty good. I have memory of a similar place in Elmira where we always got day old doughnuts (remember when you could do that?).
They decided to change the venue from the local Robin's to the local A&W
But A&W doesn't sell Persians!
but I hope the damage is done to their reputation as Canadiana distilled.
When exactly did Tim Hortons become so entrenched as Canadiana? When was the tipping point? I don't remember it being nearly as big a Canadian icon when I was a kid (I'm middle aged). I could be misremembering.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:06 PM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
That was sad when that closed. Those doughnuts were pretty good. I have memory of a similar place in Elmira where we always got day old doughnuts (remember when you could do that?).
They decided to change the venue from the local Robin's to the local A&W
But A&W doesn't sell Persians!
but I hope the damage is done to their reputation as Canadiana distilled.
When exactly did Tim Hortons become so entrenched as Canadiana? When was the tipping point? I don't remember it being nearly as big a Canadian icon when I was a kid (I'm middle aged). I could be misremembering.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:06 PM on January 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
When exactly did Tim Hortons become so entrenched as Canadiana? When was the tipping point? I don't remember it being nearly as big a Canadian icon when I was a kid (I'm middle aged). I could be misremembering.
I came to Canada in 2000 (after having spent the first 18 years of my life in Dallas, TX) and I've now spent the last 19 here in Canada. It's ALWAYS felt like Tim Horton's = Canada.
I don't recall what I said but I know that in the first year I made some casual comment about "It's just a cup of coffee." and I had people look at me like I had spit on the Pope. And that's how it feels, like it's a religion and to not drink their coffee is to somehow be un-Canadian, which I've always resented, especially as an immigrant.
It's probably just me, so maybe don't read too much into this statement but Tim Horton's and hockey are two things I'm not a fan of and it's largely because of so many people insisting that they're a core part of the Canadian identity and that doesn't match with my own personal tastes or experience as an immigrant. Even now as a citizen, I still don't feel like it's a big part of who I am.
This comment sounds far more negative than I wanted it to be. I'm honestly cool about it now, because I've learned to just not give a shit, but those first few years I was here, Tim Horton's and hockey both felt very mean in their connotation. Ah well, different strokes, different folks. I know plenty of people who love the coffee and the Maple Leafs. Whatev.
posted by Fizz at 7:26 PM on January 11, 2018 [6 favorites]
I came to Canada in 2000 (after having spent the first 18 years of my life in Dallas, TX) and I've now spent the last 19 here in Canada. It's ALWAYS felt like Tim Horton's = Canada.
I don't recall what I said but I know that in the first year I made some casual comment about "It's just a cup of coffee." and I had people look at me like I had spit on the Pope. And that's how it feels, like it's a religion and to not drink their coffee is to somehow be un-Canadian, which I've always resented, especially as an immigrant.
It's probably just me, so maybe don't read too much into this statement but Tim Horton's and hockey are two things I'm not a fan of and it's largely because of so many people insisting that they're a core part of the Canadian identity and that doesn't match with my own personal tastes or experience as an immigrant. Even now as a citizen, I still don't feel like it's a big part of who I am.
This comment sounds far more negative than I wanted it to be. I'm honestly cool about it now, because I've learned to just not give a shit, but those first few years I was here, Tim Horton's and hockey both felt very mean in their connotation. Ah well, different strokes, different folks. I know plenty of people who love the coffee and the Maple Leafs. Whatev.
posted by Fizz at 7:26 PM on January 11, 2018 [6 favorites]
It's probably just me, so maybe don't read too much into this statement but Tim Horton's and hockey are two things I'm not a fan of and it's largely because of so many people insisting that they're a core part of the Canadian identity and that doesn't match with my own personal tastes or experience as an immigrant.
Ditto, and I was born here. There are dozens of us!
posted by Sys Rq at 7:33 PM on January 11, 2018 [6 favorites]
Ditto, and I was born here. There are dozens of us!
posted by Sys Rq at 7:33 PM on January 11, 2018 [6 favorites]
Dozens!
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:44 PM on January 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:44 PM on January 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
Many dozens!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:24 AM on January 12, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:24 AM on January 12, 2018 [3 favorites]
When exactly did Tim Hortons become so entrenched as Canadiana? When was the tipping point?
Not sure about the tipping point, but the jingoistic apotheosis was probably the Tim Horton's franchise in Kandahar.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:21 AM on January 12, 2018 [4 favorites]
Not sure about the tipping point, but the jingoistic apotheosis was probably the Tim Horton's franchise in Kandahar.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:21 AM on January 12, 2018 [4 favorites]
More than many dozens!
And in other news: JJ Bean gives Ontario minimum wage to Vancouver staff.
We make a weekly trip to JJ Bean's Ontario bakery and roastery. It's inconveniently placed (Bartley & Bermondsey, so smells from the cookie factory, the brewery and the garbage dump compete) with inconvenient hours (7–4 weekdays). But it makes real coffee.
posted by scruss at 6:29 AM on January 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
And in other news: JJ Bean gives Ontario minimum wage to Vancouver staff.
We make a weekly trip to JJ Bean's Ontario bakery and roastery. It's inconveniently placed (Bartley & Bermondsey, so smells from the cookie factory, the brewery and the garbage dump compete) with inconvenient hours (7–4 weekdays). But it makes real coffee.
posted by scruss at 6:29 AM on January 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
« Older My First Hundred Years | Delightful Yarn Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Their attack on their own workers is uncanadian, and if they want to behave like the worst stereotype of a malevolent American megacorp they'd better raise the quality of their coffee so that they can compete with McDonald's.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:25 AM on January 10, 2018 [23 favorites]