The Hard Border And The Forever War

December 8, 2018 10:35 AM

“And, in the intervening decade since that photo was taken, there hasn’t been a holiday season in which the United States was not at war. This is a fact so utterly banal that it barely warrants mention anymore. When that photo was taken, we’d been at war in Afghanistan for almost as long as the Soviet Union was.” Deployed for the holidays: Troops at the border missed Thanksgiving to carry out an ill-defined and unjustifiable mission. They weren’t alone. (Outline)
posted by The Whelk (18 comments total)

From The Onion:

Saying he “never could have imagined” he would have the opportunity to follow directly in his father’s footsteps, 19-year-old U.S. Army Pvt. Tyler Corcoran was reportedly excited Tuesday to take over his dad’s old patrol route in Afghanistan. “It’s just so incredible that I’ll soon be walking the very same footpath as my old man, securing the perimeter of Camp Chapman in Khost Province just like he did so many years ago,” said Corcoran, who explained how, throughout his childhood, he had heard his father’s stories of guarding the forward operating base but never once considered that he would one day be traversing along the exact walls and securing the identical checkpoints his father had during his tours of duty. “To think that I’ll be monitoring the road between the airstrip and detention facility that Dad always talked about, keeping an eye out for IEDs and any suspicious activity the same way he did all those years ago. Honestly, it’s hard to believe—but, wow, it’s really happening.” At press time, a tear fell from Corcoran’s eye as he hugged his dad goodbye in the very same manner he remembered his father doing to him when he was a toddler.

posted by ChuraChura at 10:47 AM on December 8, 2018 [14 favorites]

But they’ll be home by Christmas, right?
posted by cenoxo at 12:06 PM on December 8, 2018 [1 favorite]

I often wonder if the American presence in Afghanistan exists solely so that certain set of political and military leaders can retire before Kabul gets retaken, so they can put the responsibility on somebody else. Who want to retire before Kabul gets retaken, so...

On reflection, this cycle has probably happened a few times already.
posted by mhoye at 12:22 PM on December 8, 2018 [2 favorites]

It's far more likely because when combined with the lax oversight of the MIC it is a machine that prints money for the benefit of a few people with a lot of influence in foreign policy, and possibly domestic, too. How many Democrats have voted against increased mil budgets during the Bush/Trump eras, and how many Republicans did it during Obama?
posted by lmfsilva at 1:04 PM on December 8, 2018 [3 favorites]

Whenever I speak with servicepeople, I am all the more chagrined that their significant talent, intelligence and dedication is put toward such poor uses - priorities defined by our civilian leaders.
posted by Miko at 1:09 PM on December 8, 2018 [4 favorites]

Vietnam is the longest U.S. war, with Afghanistan second and closing fast.

List of the lengths of United States participation in wars — War in the context of this list broadly construed to be armed conflict between organized U.S. military forces and organized forces of (a) belligerent(s). [Only #1-11 are shown to include WWII)]:

1. Vietnam War 1955/11 – 1973/04 ... 17.4 years
2. War in Afghanistan ... 2001/10 – present ... 17.2 years
3. Moro Rebellion ... 1899 – 1913 ... 14 years
4. Northwest Indian War ... 1785 – 1795 ... 10 years
5. Iraq War ... 2003/03 – 2011/12 ... 8.8 years
6. American Revolutionary War ... 1775/04 – 1783/09 ... 8.4 years
7. Second Seminole War ... 1835/12 – 1842/08 ... 6.7 years
8. War on ISIS ... 2014/06 – present ... 4.5 years
9. First Barbary War ... 1801/05 – 1805/06 ... 4.1 years
10. American Civil War ... 1861/04 – 1865/04 ... 4 years
11. World War II ... 1941/12 – 1945/08 ... 3.7 years

...followed by fourteen others.

See also United States military deployments (current).
posted by cenoxo at 1:29 PM on December 8, 2018 [3 favorites]

And yet, except for a few minutes one September the US has never been involved in a war for many decades, only the US troops. All of your participants have consented, so there is no injustice when one of your citizens is killed. I think that is one reason your wars are so long. They are so useful economically there is no downside to being at war.

When American troops are killed or threatened they become heroes, unlike when a war in your own country means that the deaths or random civilians has a deeper and uglier resonance. The deaths of your troops are different because enlisted troops have given consent. At the moment of action, or of death they don't and can't withdraw consent. To do so is a crime under military law, desertion or dereliction of duty.

I wonder if this has anything to do with some people's inability to understand or accept the concept of consent.
posted by Jane the Brown at 2:01 PM on December 8, 2018 [11 favorites]

hasn’t been a holiday season in which the United States was not at war

Oh, horseshit. The US hasn't been "at war" since 1945. The president sends away the troops on military adventures at a whim, sure (and Congress is complicit in this, no question). But the Constitution says it's Congress' responsibility to declare war, which they haven't done since December, 1941.
posted by Rash at 2:41 PM on December 8, 2018 [3 favorites]

All of your participants have consented, so there is no injustice when one of your citizens is killed.

Certainly the rhetoric of consent makes it easier for Americans to ignore the deaths of their soldiers, but you might want to consider how the things American soldiers are ordered to do differ from what recruiters tell teenagers they will do (dulce et decorum est...), and the socioeconomic pressures that drive some people into the military.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 3:13 PM on December 8, 2018 [6 favorites]

hasn’t been a holiday season in which the United States was not at war

Oh, horseshit. The US hasn't been "at war" since 1945.

True. We have only been at never ending unlimited endlessly re-authorized uses of military force costing trillions of dollars, thousands of soldier's lives and anywhere from 10s to 100s of thousands of civilian deaths.
posted by srboisvert at 4:17 PM on December 8, 2018 [4 favorites]

But they’ll be home by Christmas, right?

A Christmas, sure.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:41 PM on December 8, 2018 [3 favorites]

But the Constitution says it's Congress' responsibility to declare war, which they haven't done since December, 1941.

Yup and did majority of Congress know about the atomic bomb, no.

Of course the method on fighting the war falls upon the president.
Take the invasion of Iraq, Congress passed a joint resolution to use force because you don't have time to declare war these days, those days, so.
I'd say we have been in near constant war since 1991.
posted by clavdivs at 6:34 PM on December 8, 2018 [1 favorite]

List of wars involving the United States, 1775-2018.

116 conflicts and counting, but it'll take some time before we equal the List of conflicts in Europe and in Asia.
posted by cenoxo at 10:29 PM on December 8, 2018

But they’ll be home by Christmas, right?

Now I understand the "War on Christmas", which won't end in our lifetimes either....
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:56 PM on December 8, 2018 [3 favorites]

In a more perfect world, when the Democrats control the House, would be putting all this out in the open with debate over a bill, "Declaration of war against ________________ ". Because if we're going to put this nation's resources at risk, we should be totally honest about it.
posted by mikelieman at 12:59 AM on December 9, 2018

The deaths of your troops are different because enlisted troops have given consent. At the moment of action, or of death they don't and can't withdraw consent. To do so is a crime under military law, desertion or dereliction of duty.


The only way to support the troops at this point in history is bringing them home. Also, veterans are getting the universal healthcare we should all be getting because they sign up to partake in war crimes. Yes I am American. I flaked out before basic when I saw hints of Shrub2's Iraq massacre in the media and to this day I'm a proud pre-deserter, because fuck that. I was 19. I defy anyone who will lecture me about country and duty to justify their willing participation in our wars of conquest and immiseration, even because of poverty or a lack of other options, because if you're poor, signing up to potentially slaughter foreigners is totally excusable, right? Because I was poor.

"Too soon"? I'm not a patriot? Tell you what young American, the war on terror starts at home, and if you're old enough to be trained to use a machine gun and shoot foreigners, you're old enough to choose why. You're already a soldier in the fight to defend your homeland from terror. To choose the terrorists is as easy as signing up at the recruiter's office. To fight it is as easy as not giving it your time and labor.

Yours truly,
A Deserter Who Sleeps Well
posted by saysthis at 1:14 AM on December 9, 2018 [1 favorite]

P.S. - There's a mosque, temple, ashram, atheist klatch, or church down the street from you where they may or may not be preaching extremism, terror, xenophobia, and exclusion. Curious? You may be required to learn a language and theology alien to your experience. However, if you really want to fight terror, do the American thing and learn! See, these colors don't run from difference, we embrace it. So go, learn, see what they're preaching, and then either 1) spread peace and love against terror if that's what they're preaching, 2) pull them back from the brink if they're slipping, 3) report them to our fine anti-terrorism task forces if they're too far gone. But you have to actually go find out, young American. Some just sign up to shoot people. Not cool.
posted by saysthis at 1:27 AM on December 9, 2018

List of the lengths of United States participation in wars

By way of comparasion:

Roman occupation of Britain: 43 CE to 410 CE.
Roman occupation of Judea: 6 CE–135 CE
Roman occupation of Spain: 218 BC - 403 CE
Chinese occupation of Vietnam: 111 BC - 939 CE
Ottoman occupation of Balkans: 1352 CE - 1918 CE

I mean, look at it this way. Climate change is going to make the area uninhabitable within a century. So as far as the historical record goes, the length of ocupation of the area wont be anything special. Though it will likely last almost until the end of Western civilization.
posted by happyroach at 2:26 AM on December 9, 2018 [2 favorites]