"I was becoming not only chauvinistic but fascistic, too."
March 1, 2019 9:51 AM Subscribe
Eric Clapton, by 1976, was an alcoholic former heroin addict who had recently succeeded in stealing the wife of his close friend, George Harrison. On the night of August 5, Clapton, who had already developed a reputation for erratic on-stage behavior, unloaded on the audience of the Birmingham Odeon: "Do we have any foreigners in the audience tonight? If so, please put up your hands..."The Fairest Soul Brother in England—An unsolicited critique of Eric Clapton’s Unplugged [Andrew Marzoni, The Baffler]
This criticism is so choice.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 10:07 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by whimsicalnymph at 10:07 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
His technical precision is obvious, but so is Kenny G’s
Incoming!
The implication here is as strong as it is absurd: sobered by addiction, the threat of obscurity, and the death of a child, it is only in middle age that Clapton, having adopted the professorial spectacles and sport coat of a proto-Jonathan Franzen, has come to understand what it means to sing the blues.
KA-BOOM.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:11 AM on March 1, 2019 [47 favorites]
Incoming!
The implication here is as strong as it is absurd: sobered by addiction, the threat of obscurity, and the death of a child, it is only in middle age that Clapton, having adopted the professorial spectacles and sport coat of a proto-Jonathan Franzen, has come to understand what it means to sing the blues.
KA-BOOM.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:11 AM on March 1, 2019 [47 favorites]
Like everyone else here, I'm still thinking through the ethical-aesthetic calculus of experiencing art that was created by individuals with deplorable views or personal lives. But the good news is that Eric Clapton is a) a pretty clear-cut case and b) a real value proposition in terms of the aesthetic merit and pleasure you're losing out on.
Listen to a Robert Johnson song, say "Stop Breakin' Down." Then listen to four other people sing it: on my iTunes, it's the Stones, Lucinda Williams, The White Stripes and (it was a gift) Clapton. Clapton's the worst! Always!
I'm going to save my Claire Dederer dark nights of the soul for artists more of Lou Reed's quality.
posted by sy at 10:16 AM on March 1, 2019 [15 favorites]
Listen to a Robert Johnson song, say "Stop Breakin' Down." Then listen to four other people sing it: on my iTunes, it's the Stones, Lucinda Williams, The White Stripes and (it was a gift) Clapton. Clapton's the worst! Always!
I'm going to save my Claire Dederer dark nights of the soul for artists more of Lou Reed's quality.
posted by sy at 10:16 AM on March 1, 2019 [15 favorites]
I don't know about you, but I find it super easy to live without Clapton. Are there any other examples of an intimate tragedy converted blatantly into profit and career rejuvenation?
posted by Brocktoon at 10:16 AM on March 1, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by Brocktoon at 10:16 AM on March 1, 2019 [14 favorites]
Huh, this is superb writing:
>He finally got sober after the birth of his son Conor in 1986, whose tragic fall from the 53rd floor of Manhattan’s Galleria building, on East 57th Street, in 1991 would result in a Grammy.
posted by JamesBay at 10:17 AM on March 1, 2019 [45 favorites]
>He finally got sober after the birth of his son Conor in 1986, whose tragic fall from the 53rd floor of Manhattan’s Galleria building, on East 57th Street, in 1991 would result in a Grammy.
posted by JamesBay at 10:17 AM on March 1, 2019 [45 favorites]
What is missing in Clapton’s imitation of African American musical tradition on Unplugged, which Chicago Tribune critic Greg Kot fairly described as “a blues album for yuppies,” is the quality most responsible for the music’s sadness as well as its humor, lasting relevance, and political bite: that is, a profound self-awareness.
Your honour, the people would like to introduce into evidence Clapton's 1994 outing, From the Cradle.
I'd argue that From the Cradle is an even more egregious example of his self-styled bluesman vocal schtick. The thing is, as an electric blues album it's instrumentally competent. His singing, though.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:24 AM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
Your honour, the people would like to introduce into evidence Clapton's 1994 outing, From the Cradle.
I'd argue that From the Cradle is an even more egregious example of his self-styled bluesman vocal schtick. The thing is, as an electric blues album it's instrumentally competent. His singing, though.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:24 AM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
"I hear you on the radio
the hair stands on my neck
your boring licks and guitar tricks have always made me sick
your songwriting is flaccid
your covers give me fits
that's why I think Clapton you're the shits"
If Neko has no time for him neither do I.
Also, JJ Cale is God.
posted by Cosine at 10:26 AM on March 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
the hair stands on my neck
your boring licks and guitar tricks have always made me sick
your songwriting is flaccid
your covers give me fits
that's why I think Clapton you're the shits"
If Neko has no time for him neither do I.
Also, JJ Cale is God.
posted by Cosine at 10:26 AM on March 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
I remain convinced that the aftermath of Cocaine abuse is an inability to think critically.
posted by sydnius at 10:34 AM on March 1, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by sydnius at 10:34 AM on March 1, 2019 [9 favorites]
Are there any Claptons in the theatre tonight? Get them against the wall!
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:36 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:36 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
> "... succeeded in stealing the wife ..."
Who has a name -- Pattie Boyd -- a career of her own, and was not actually a piece of furniture waiting around passively to be "stolen".
Christ.
posted by kyrademon at 10:37 AM on March 1, 2019 [147 favorites]
Who has a name -- Pattie Boyd -- a career of her own, and was not actually a piece of furniture waiting around passively to be "stolen".
Christ.
posted by kyrademon at 10:37 AM on March 1, 2019 [147 favorites]
Rather like Keith Richard, I find Clapton's best stuff (and some of it is pretty darned solid) was all behind him by the time he took his drug monkey seriously. So yeah, the early blues stuff, Cream, Blind Faith, Derek and Dominoes (everything in this wiki page up to the Personal problems and early solo success) -- there's good stuff there, overrated for sure (not even close to God really), but past that, who cares? Blues for Yuppies is way too kind.
posted by philip-random at 10:37 AM on March 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 10:37 AM on March 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
Ugh. I didn't realize he had been such a horrible racist. I guess I'll have to scratch him off my list, then. The only thing I'll really miss is some of his early work with the Yardbirds.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 10:42 AM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 10:42 AM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
I mean look, fuck Clapton, but wow, I hope I never get so cynical that I can write that way about the death of someone's young child.
posted by phooky at 10:43 AM on March 1, 2019 [83 favorites]
posted by phooky at 10:43 AM on March 1, 2019 [83 favorites]
Ginger Baker and Jack Bruce make Cream's version of "Crossroads."
Ginger Baker's got problems of his own, though (some NSFW language).
Curiously, that part of the documentary was Baker losing his shit over the director mentioning he's going back to the UK to interview some folks, including Clapton (who speaks in glowing terms about Baker's drumming).
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:45 AM on March 1, 2019
Ginger Baker's got problems of his own, though (some NSFW language).
Curiously, that part of the documentary was Baker losing his shit over the director mentioning he's going back to the UK to interview some folks, including Clapton (who speaks in glowing terms about Baker's drumming).
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:45 AM on March 1, 2019
Since we're talking about Clapton and his son's death - obligatory Mr. Show - Teardrop Awards
posted by symbioid at 10:45 AM on March 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by symbioid at 10:45 AM on March 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
If you'd like to frame Clapton's "moment" in a rather more positive light, may I recommend picking up Walls Come Tumbling Down: The Music and Politics of Rock Against Racism, 2 Tone and Red Wedge by Daniel Rachel. It's a phenomenal and comprehensive account of the UK post-punk anti-racism movement birthed more or less directly out of Clapton's idiotic outburst, and includes the participation of virtually everyone from that scene: the Specials, Linton Kwesi Johnson, Tracey Thorn, Billy Bragg, Buzzcocks, Aswad, Paul Weller, Au Pairs, the Communards, the list goes on.
posted by mykescipark at 10:47 AM on March 1, 2019 [39 favorites]
posted by mykescipark at 10:47 AM on March 1, 2019 [39 favorites]
Clapton has been dead to me as an artist since Derek & the Dominoes. Also, Duane Allman wrote the amazing intro lick to Layla & suggested they speed it up from ballad speed. Clapton's unplugged is apparently more like the original before Duane got ahold of it, which was a good choice because the unplugged ballad-speed Layla is somnolence defined. Also, Jim Gordon wrote the beautiful instrumental piano coda. Clapton was best in a supporting role, like playing guitar in Jack Bruce's band, Cream.
I'm glad he's sober & all - no one needs to undergo the torture of addiction - but JJ Cale's Cocaine is one truly awful song that kinda hangs around his ankle like a lead ball.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:49 AM on March 1, 2019 [8 favorites]
I'm glad he's sober & all - no one needs to undergo the torture of addiction - but JJ Cale's Cocaine is one truly awful song that kinda hangs around his ankle like a lead ball.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:49 AM on March 1, 2019 [8 favorites]
Several years back someone was trying to get Clapton to perform in North Korea as part of goodwill mission. My thought: Well sure; blasting Layla across the DMZ would violate the Geneva Convention.
posted by sjswitzer at 10:50 AM on March 1, 2019
posted by sjswitzer at 10:50 AM on March 1, 2019
I expect pretty much all the old white rockers in England and America had (and likely continue to have) loathsome views about people of color, women, and LGBTQ people. Most of them grew up in the radiation of Jim Crow and the last throes of traditional colonialism.
But I also assume lots of people in 50 years will look back at even today's most progressive people with horror and disdain. This is why I find cancellation/call out/whatever culture exhausting. Calling out Clapton will do pretty much nothing to make my life as a person of color better.
Give me David Gilmour any day.
posted by Ouverture at 10:51 AM on March 1, 2019 [28 favorites]
But I also assume lots of people in 50 years will look back at even today's most progressive people with horror and disdain. This is why I find cancellation/call out/whatever culture exhausting. Calling out Clapton will do pretty much nothing to make my life as a person of color better.
Give me David Gilmour any day.
posted by Ouverture at 10:51 AM on March 1, 2019 [28 favorites]
Add "Wonderful Tonight" to that list of all-time awful songs. I've never given two shits about Clapton, so I guess he's one artist I don't have to excise from my playlist. I'm not really into Joy Division, having enjoyed a few songs, but had no idea about their background.
The lesson seems to be don't invest any emotional energy in white artists of any sort, they're going to fuck you in the end with some sort of egregious racist or sexist bullshit.
posted by maxwelton at 10:54 AM on March 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
The lesson seems to be don't invest any emotional energy in white artists of any sort, they're going to fuck you in the end with some sort of egregious racist or sexist bullshit.
posted by maxwelton at 10:54 AM on March 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
Who has a name -- Pattie Boyd -- a career of her own, and was not actually a piece of furniture waiting around passively to be "stolen".
And to quote Cybill Shepherd, "You can't 'steal' anyone. They give themselves to you."
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:01 AM on March 1, 2019 [17 favorites]
And to quote Cybill Shepherd, "You can't 'steal' anyone. They give themselves to you."
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:01 AM on March 1, 2019 [17 favorites]
Add "Wonderful Tonight" to that list of all-time awful songs.
I played this in a cover band for years, esp. at weddings. Not only are the lyrics sexist tripe, but man, I nearly toppled over from boredom & found myself literally fighting to stay awake through the whole thing. I'd miss the bridge half the time because I'd be snoozing off.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:02 AM on March 1, 2019 [18 favorites]
I played this in a cover band for years, esp. at weddings. Not only are the lyrics sexist tripe, but man, I nearly toppled over from boredom & found myself literally fighting to stay awake through the whole thing. I'd miss the bridge half the time because I'd be snoozing off.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:02 AM on March 1, 2019 [18 favorites]
The lesson seems to be don't invest any emotional energy in white artists of any sort, they're going to fuck you in the end with some sort of egregious racist or sexist bullshit.
I think it's better to universalize that to *all* artists, regardless of identity. Artists are just human beings who happen to be good at doing a thing, but "doing a thing good" doesn't mean they have to be our friends, moral compasses, or idols.
posted by Ouverture at 11:03 AM on March 1, 2019 [11 favorites]
I think it's better to universalize that to *all* artists, regardless of identity. Artists are just human beings who happen to be good at doing a thing, but "doing a thing good" doesn't mean they have to be our friends, moral compasses, or idols.
posted by Ouverture at 11:03 AM on March 1, 2019 [11 favorites]
This makes me feel validated in a very profound way. Nearly 40 years ago, I was at a party, and casually remarked that I didn't care much for Clapton, since he was a racist. That was not received well, and I have rarely spoken about music to anyone since. As you can see, it still hurts.
It got me thinking about something though. Where I lived, the access to Black American music was extremely limited during the 70's and 80's. We got the disco and Aretha, but rarely anything else. I didn't know about Nina Simone at all till 1988, and I was very interested and always alert if something was played in the radio or cited in an off-off music magazine. I ordered stuff home from the record store on the corner, but they couldn't always get it, because there was no distribution network. Obviously there was no internet.
Even Punk was hard to get, my punk rock friends would go to London to source material. All of my friends were interested in music, but African American music was not on the radar for any of them, though I had one friend who'd lived in West Africa and brought home both African music and Reggae and Ska. Reggae was of course popular because of the marihuana stuff, but that was somewhat limited too.
I was fascinated by hip-hop, but it was almost impossible to get. Still today, young local people are impressed by the few albums I have from back then.
I attribute my interests to my granddad, who travelled in the US in the 30's and brought home an amazing collection of blues and jazz records. I would listen to them for hours and learn them by heart. Even though jazz is huge here, no-one had all those originals. (Unfortunately, they were lost in a flood). Grandpa was of a generation that said Negro, but his respect for the African Americans he'd met during his travels was clear and real. He was a Jew who recognized another suffering people.
Also, I went to American schools for a couple of years, and met a diverse group of students there.
What I'm trying to say is not that Clapton wasn't an exploitative racist, I won't let down on that, but that many of his European fans including my friends were incredibly ignorant back in the day because you didn't have any access to information. In England, it was a different story, and among professional musicians I can't imagine any valid excuse.
posted by mumimor at 11:03 AM on March 1, 2019 [18 favorites]
It got me thinking about something though. Where I lived, the access to Black American music was extremely limited during the 70's and 80's. We got the disco and Aretha, but rarely anything else. I didn't know about Nina Simone at all till 1988, and I was very interested and always alert if something was played in the radio or cited in an off-off music magazine. I ordered stuff home from the record store on the corner, but they couldn't always get it, because there was no distribution network. Obviously there was no internet.
Even Punk was hard to get, my punk rock friends would go to London to source material. All of my friends were interested in music, but African American music was not on the radar for any of them, though I had one friend who'd lived in West Africa and brought home both African music and Reggae and Ska. Reggae was of course popular because of the marihuana stuff, but that was somewhat limited too.
I was fascinated by hip-hop, but it was almost impossible to get. Still today, young local people are impressed by the few albums I have from back then.
I attribute my interests to my granddad, who travelled in the US in the 30's and brought home an amazing collection of blues and jazz records. I would listen to them for hours and learn them by heart. Even though jazz is huge here, no-one had all those originals. (Unfortunately, they were lost in a flood). Grandpa was of a generation that said Negro, but his respect for the African Americans he'd met during his travels was clear and real. He was a Jew who recognized another suffering people.
Also, I went to American schools for a couple of years, and met a diverse group of students there.
What I'm trying to say is not that Clapton wasn't an exploitative racist, I won't let down on that, but that many of his European fans including my friends were incredibly ignorant back in the day because you didn't have any access to information. In England, it was a different story, and among professional musicians I can't imagine any valid excuse.
posted by mumimor at 11:03 AM on March 1, 2019 [18 favorites]
Are there any Claptons in the theatre tonight? Get them against the wall!
So, the Clapton incident must have at least partially inspired Roger Waters to write that bit, right?
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:04 AM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
So, the Clapton incident must have at least partially inspired Roger Waters to write that bit, right?
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:04 AM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
I was kind of a semi-racist, which didn’t make any sense.
It makes more sense if you replace “semi-“ with “really, very, publicly,” Eric.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:05 AM on March 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
It makes more sense if you replace “semi-“ with “really, very, publicly,” Eric.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:05 AM on March 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
So, the Clapton incident must have at least partially inspired Roger Waters to write that bit, right?
What inspired Waters was having his own, less obvious, on-stage breakdown. The music industry created a lot of really, really fucked-up people.
posted by Grangousier at 11:15 AM on March 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
What inspired Waters was having his own, less obvious, on-stage breakdown. The music industry created a lot of really, really fucked-up people.
posted by Grangousier at 11:15 AM on March 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
I couldn't care less about Clapton. What he said 45 years ago was and remains utterly despicable. But if you're proudly putting him in the bin of garbage humans while simultaneously praising casual jokes about his dead child, you might need to work on your moral calculus a bit.
posted by gwint at 11:16 AM on March 1, 2019 [41 favorites]
posted by gwint at 11:16 AM on March 1, 2019 [41 favorites]
Here's an amusing typo...
Co-writing such a personal song with Will Jennings—the schlockmeister who would go on to win another Grammy (and an Oscar) for “My Heart Will Go On”—for the soundtrack of a Jennifer Jason Lee cop movie (1991’s Rush)
posted by porn in the woods at 11:17 AM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
Co-writing such a personal song with Will Jennings—the schlockmeister who would go on to win another Grammy (and an Oscar) for “My Heart Will Go On”—for the soundtrack of a Jennifer Jason Lee cop movie (1991’s Rush)
posted by porn in the woods at 11:17 AM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
Huh, this is superb writing:I don't think it's superb, I think it's needlessly cruel. Are we really going to accept the implication that a man (even a racist appropriative shit of a man) saw the death of his son as a business opportunity? Fuck that.
>He finally got sober after the birth of his son Conor in 1986, whose tragic fall from the 53rd floor of Manhattan’s Galleria building, on East 57th Street, in 1991 would result in a Grammy.
I always enjoyed Clapton's music, even while I abhor the old white dudes who play "blues" in every pub in North America on Thursday night. It's basically the same stuff, he's just better at it. It's fine. It's music. Sometimes it's boring, sometimes it rocks. You could do worse. None of it is Blues in any meaningful sense.
But I think there's one thing we should probably remember: Eric Clapton simply isn't very smart. He's basically crashing through life like any other moderately-talented, born-at-the-right-time white dude. He's the Justin Bieber of the 60s.
He said a lot of stupid racist shit while he was drunk, which is obviously deserving of criticism and possibly censure, but his life isn't following some kind of grand teleological arc -- it doesn't warrant any sort of critique. There's no plan, or message, or moral. He's just another dumbass with a quarter billion dollars in the bank. There are a lot of those around.
posted by klanawa at 11:20 AM on March 1, 2019 [42 favorites]
Listen to a Robert Johnson song, say "Stop Breakin' Down." Then listen to four other people sing it: on my iTunes, it's the Stones, Lucinda Williams, The White Stripes and (it was a gift) Clapton. Clapton's the worst! Always!
I listened to Plug It In! Turn It Up!, an anthology of electric blues, and it has the original (or early, at least, recordings) of several blooz rock band warhorse standards, and in every case, I was shocked at how much more vital and exciting the old recordings were. It sounds like people playing for their lives, not to show off their bag of guitar tricks.
posted by thelonius at 11:22 AM on March 1, 2019 [10 favorites]
I listened to Plug It In! Turn It Up!, an anthology of electric blues, and it has the original (or early, at least, recordings) of several blooz rock band warhorse standards, and in every case, I was shocked at how much more vital and exciting the old recordings were. It sounds like people playing for their lives, not to show off their bag of guitar tricks.
posted by thelonius at 11:22 AM on March 1, 2019 [10 favorites]
"...the unplugged ballad-speed Layla is somnolence defined."
I worked a summer job which played a soft-rock station over the public address system all day. That station had a set-list you could tell the time by -- Unplugged Layla meant it was 4:50. If you could get through Unplugged Layla, it was clear sailing to the end of your shift.
My loathing of Clapton is based on this Pavlovian conditioning shit of the workplace.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:23 AM on March 1, 2019 [19 favorites]
I worked a summer job which played a soft-rock station over the public address system all day. That station had a set-list you could tell the time by -- Unplugged Layla meant it was 4:50. If you could get through Unplugged Layla, it was clear sailing to the end of your shift.
My loathing of Clapton is based on this Pavlovian conditioning shit of the workplace.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:23 AM on March 1, 2019 [19 favorites]
Add "Wonderful Tonight" to that list of all-time awful songs.
We used to sing that at band practice improvising lyrics to "Dial 911 Tonight" ("We go to a party/Everyone's giving me pills to take.....And when you ask me/Do you feel all right? I say darling, dial 911 tonight")
posted by thelonius at 11:26 AM on March 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
We used to sing that at band practice improvising lyrics to "Dial 911 Tonight" ("We go to a party/Everyone's giving me pills to take.....And when you ask me/Do you feel all right? I say darling, dial 911 tonight")
posted by thelonius at 11:26 AM on March 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
OTOH, skewering Eric Clapton is like shooting the biggest fish in the barrel; OTO, he's not wrong; OTGH, this whole piece feels like the really opinionated brah next to you at the bar.
my punk rock friends would go to London to source material. All of my friends were interested in music, but African American music was not on the radar for any of them
Wasn't Two Sevens Clash the obligatory reggae album for punks?
posted by octobersurprise at 11:26 AM on March 1, 2019
my punk rock friends would go to London to source material. All of my friends were interested in music, but African American music was not on the radar for any of them
Wasn't Two Sevens Clash the obligatory reggae album for punks?
posted by octobersurprise at 11:26 AM on March 1, 2019
Wasn't Two Sevens Clash the obligatory reggae album for punks?
Absolutely, but it sort of ended there.
posted by mumimor at 11:27 AM on March 1, 2019
Absolutely, but it sort of ended there.
posted by mumimor at 11:27 AM on March 1, 2019
What inspired Waters was having his own, less obvious, on-stage breakdown.
By "partially inspired" I'm referring to the explicitly white nationalist mouth foaming. Or did Roger Waters make similarly racist remarks that I'm not aware of? (Please say no.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:32 AM on March 1, 2019
By "partially inspired" I'm referring to the explicitly white nationalist mouth foaming. Or did Roger Waters make similarly racist remarks that I'm not aware of? (Please say no.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:32 AM on March 1, 2019
Add "Wonderful Tonight" to that list of all-time awful songs.
It really is the awfulest. "Wonderful Tonight" is what the word "oleaginous" sounds like.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:33 AM on March 1, 2019 [17 favorites]
It really is the awfulest. "Wonderful Tonight" is what the word "oleaginous" sounds like.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:33 AM on March 1, 2019 [17 favorites]
Older Clapton (stuff covered on the Crossroads box set) is great and the playing is great and often inspired. Some of the later 70s less-jammy/more-songy songs are also pretty good. But despite the personal tragedy, Tears in Heaven is just a garbage song, and the Layla unplugged version sucks in the same way that the Indigo Girls' version of Romeo and Juliet sucks (sorry, I was avoiding shitting on the IG thread) - just slowwwwwwwww soulless dull dully mcdullsville.
posted by freecellwizard at 11:48 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by freecellwizard at 11:48 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
*watches from the corner as folks enjoy their two minute hate and remembers it's easy for them to turn on me*
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:58 AM on March 1, 2019 [24 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:58 AM on March 1, 2019 [24 favorites]
From what I remember of what Waters said about the album (he did a show with Tommy Vance when it came out, talking through the tracks, but it was forty years ago, and it's probably thirty years since I mislaid the cassette I recorded it onto), the spitting incident was the point where he saw what he'd become, and drew the parallels with fascism. I listened to The Wall for the first time in decades last years, and was simultaneously impressed and... not, I guess. I think the unofficial experiment that was conducted on a coterie of repressed young English men during the 60s - give them access to unlimited amounts of drugs and adulation while working them to death, tell them they should be glad about it, put them in proximity to young women and see what happens - is actually quite interesting and appalling, and something like The Wall could be a much better work of fiction than The Wall actually is. The very best bit, for me, remains the cocktail of Michael Kamen's strings and David Gilmour's guitar on Comfortably Numb
Waters' actual mum - not the character he invented for The Wall - was (according to a friend, whose own late mother was her bestie) - wonderfully eccentric, and a communist, and I doubt whether he'd identify with fascism. What he did see was that he'd got to the point where he despised everyone around him and the audience in particular, and he symbolised that with fascism. He did hire Clapton to play on the album the Floyd rightly rejected in favour of The Wall, The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking. I quite like Clapton's pseudo-Gilmour, I must confess - most of all on Edge of Darkness again with Kamen.
I find the turning of rock and pop stars into public punchbags - Clapton here, or Sting or Mick Hucknall or whoever - a bit weird and adolescent, but whatever floats your boat. As long as people leave Jeff Beck alone, I don't mind. I'm interested to see what happens when they come for Jimmy Page.
In any case, it's notable that we still seem to see the widespread heroin, cocaine and alcohol addiction among that generation as self-indulgence rather than self-medication, which I suspect is more likely the case.
posted by Grangousier at 11:58 AM on March 1, 2019 [15 favorites]
Waters' actual mum - not the character he invented for The Wall - was (according to a friend, whose own late mother was her bestie) - wonderfully eccentric, and a communist, and I doubt whether he'd identify with fascism. What he did see was that he'd got to the point where he despised everyone around him and the audience in particular, and he symbolised that with fascism. He did hire Clapton to play on the album the Floyd rightly rejected in favour of The Wall, The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking. I quite like Clapton's pseudo-Gilmour, I must confess - most of all on Edge of Darkness again with Kamen.
I find the turning of rock and pop stars into public punchbags - Clapton here, or Sting or Mick Hucknall or whoever - a bit weird and adolescent, but whatever floats your boat. As long as people leave Jeff Beck alone, I don't mind. I'm interested to see what happens when they come for Jimmy Page.
In any case, it's notable that we still seem to see the widespread heroin, cocaine and alcohol addiction among that generation as self-indulgence rather than self-medication, which I suspect is more likely the case.
posted by Grangousier at 11:58 AM on March 1, 2019 [15 favorites]
The full text of his outburst, as quoted in TFA:
posted by tobascodagama at 12:03 PM on March 1, 2019 [31 favorites]
Do we have any foreigners in the audience tonight? If so, please put up your hands. Wogs, I mean. I’m looking at you. Where are you? I’m sorry, but some fucking wog Arab grabbed my wife’s bum, you know? Surely got to be said, yeah, this is what all the fucking foreigners and wogs here are like, just disgusting, that’s just the truth, yeah. So, where are you? Well, wherever you are, I think you should all just leave. Not just leave the hall, leave our country. You fucking . . . I don’t want you here, in this room or in my country. Listen to me, man! I think we should vote for Enoch Powell. Enoch’s our man. I think Enoch’s right, I think we should send them all back. Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I’m into racism. It’s much heavier, man. Fucking wogs, man. Fucking Saudis taking over London. Bastard wogs. Britain is becoming overcrowded, and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black wogs and coons and Arabs and fucking Jamaicans and fucking . . . don’t belong here, we don’t want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don’t want any black wogs and coons living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man. We are a white country. I don’t want fucking wogs living next to me with their standards. This is Great Britain, a white country, what is happening to us, for fuck’s sake? We need to vote for Enoch Powell, he’s a great man, speaking truth. Vote for Enoch, he’s our man, he’s on our side, he’ll look after us. I want all of you here to vote for Enoch, support him, he’s on our side. Enoch for Prime Minister! Throw the wogs out! Keep Britain white!Unless you're gonna stump for the Rivers of Blood guy, you're probably safe from earning the kind of condemnation that Clapton is receiving in this thread.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:03 PM on March 1, 2019 [31 favorites]
For what it's worth, this black woman here loves Eric Clapton. Even the cheesy stuff.
posted by ramix at 12:05 PM on March 1, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by ramix at 12:05 PM on March 1, 2019 [7 favorites]
I share tobascodagama's optimism that Brandon Blatcher will never be the subject of a metafilter pileon (unless opinions about vintage operating systems become way more politically tendentious in the coming decades than they are in our current moment.)
At the same time, I came early into this thread to say something mean, hoping to garner a few favorites and read other people saying mean things, and the idea that "doing something aggressive hoping to earn the approval of other in-group members for being aggressive is a deep human impulse that leads to very bad outcomes," which is how I'm paraphrasing Brandon Blatcher's comment five or so comments up, is a good point and well worth remembering.
posted by sy at 12:20 PM on March 1, 2019 [14 favorites]
At the same time, I came early into this thread to say something mean, hoping to garner a few favorites and read other people saying mean things, and the idea that "doing something aggressive hoping to earn the approval of other in-group members for being aggressive is a deep human impulse that leads to very bad outcomes," which is how I'm paraphrasing Brandon Blatcher's comment five or so comments up, is a good point and well worth remembering.
posted by sy at 12:20 PM on March 1, 2019 [14 favorites]
I mean look, fuck Clapton, but wow, I hope I never get so cynical that I can write that way about the death of someone's young child.
SERIOUSLY. Does the author really think Clapton so cynical that his son's death was met with a fist pump and a declaration "Ha. I shall write a hit song and milk this tragedy. Bwahaha." Even racist drunks like Clapton can experience tragedy, and the loss of a child is at the tip top of the list that no one should have to experience. If Clapton grieved by writing a song about it, well, that's how he grieved. Fame and fortune may have followed, but even an asshole like Clapton, I would assume, would trade all of that and more to have his boy back.
posted by zardoz at 12:24 PM on March 1, 2019 [22 favorites]
SERIOUSLY. Does the author really think Clapton so cynical that his son's death was met with a fist pump and a declaration "Ha. I shall write a hit song and milk this tragedy. Bwahaha." Even racist drunks like Clapton can experience tragedy, and the loss of a child is at the tip top of the list that no one should have to experience. If Clapton grieved by writing a song about it, well, that's how he grieved. Fame and fortune may have followed, but even an asshole like Clapton, I would assume, would trade all of that and more to have his boy back.
posted by zardoz at 12:24 PM on March 1, 2019 [22 favorites]
*watches from the corner as folks enjoy their two minute hate and remembers it's easy for them to turn on me*
OK, I can mostly forgive a sober & contrite person for things they did & said while under the cloud of drug addiction -- lord knows I've had to ask enough people for forgiveness. I don't know if he's still a racist ass, or if he's mended his ways.
But. Have you ever been the bass player at a jam session when some random guitarist INSISTS upon playing Cocaine? There really should be a law.
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:27 PM on March 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
OK, I can mostly forgive a sober & contrite person for things they did & said while under the cloud of drug addiction -- lord knows I've had to ask enough people for forgiveness. I don't know if he's still a racist ass, or if he's mended his ways.
But. Have you ever been the bass player at a jam session when some random guitarist INSISTS upon playing Cocaine? There really should be a law.
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:27 PM on March 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
*watches from the corner as folks enjoy their two minute hate and remembers it's easy for them to turn on me*
If they could put a man on the moon, why couldn't they put Eric Clapton?
posted by octobersurprise at 12:35 PM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
If they could put a man on the moon, why couldn't they put Eric Clapton?
posted by octobersurprise at 12:35 PM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
I was pleased to read that Eric Clapton is a racist asshole, because I've always found his music tedious.
No, really, that was my initial thought process in a nutshell. I should go check myself.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:49 PM on March 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
No, really, that was my initial thought process in a nutshell. I should go check myself.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:49 PM on March 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
ramix, my (black) father loves him, loves Cream and appreciates what appeared to be his reverence for blues musicians. I found out about this fascist stuff about a year ago and am reluctant to tell him about it.
posted by Selena777 at 1:23 PM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Selena777 at 1:23 PM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
An unsolicited critique of Eric Clapton’s Unplugged
Truer words were never written.
posted by kimberussell at 1:28 PM on March 1, 2019
Truer words were never written.
posted by kimberussell at 1:28 PM on March 1, 2019
Sorry, but this is a pretty shitty article, especially with all the "Tears in Heaven" stuff. The author briefly notes that Clapton apologized for his tirade, on camera, before noting with approval David Cross' cynical take on Clapton and his son; Cross, of course, has his own racist past to reckon with.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:28 PM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:28 PM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
I was pleased to read that Eric Clapton is a racist asshole, because I've always found his music tedious.
This is the inverse milkshake duck effect. Instead of having to be dismayed that some artist whose output you liked turns out to be an ass, you get to be relieved that some artist whose work you thought was shit is also an asshole. I don't know if that's 2 minutes hate-style groupthink, or maybe just a pretty normal human reaction given the spate of recent high profile outings of assholes.
posted by axiom at 1:38 PM on March 1, 2019 [10 favorites]
This is the inverse milkshake duck effect. Instead of having to be dismayed that some artist whose output you liked turns out to be an ass, you get to be relieved that some artist whose work you thought was shit is also an asshole. I don't know if that's 2 minutes hate-style groupthink, or maybe just a pretty normal human reaction given the spate of recent high profile outings of assholes.
posted by axiom at 1:38 PM on March 1, 2019 [10 favorites]
I'm a fan of Clapton's early work but really nothing since 1970. He was great when he had great collaborators like Baker and Bruce, Windwood or Allman but once he was a solo artist he really showed that he didn't really have much to say either musically or lyrically. He's still an impressive musician but it's really been almost half a century since he's done anything interesting.
posted by octothorpe at 1:47 PM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 1:47 PM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
*watches from the corner as folks enjoy their two minute hate and remembers it's easy for them to turn on me*
Don't worry, Jeff Beck, you're fine. Loved Freeway Jam. HONK HONK!
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:51 PM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
Don't worry, Jeff Beck, you're fine. Loved Freeway Jam. HONK HONK!
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:51 PM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
Good grief. There are still people who haven't heard about Clapton's drunken rant 40+ years ago?
I try not to make fun of people for admitting they don't know things.
posted by jkaczor at 2:16 PM on March 1, 2019 [16 favorites]
I try not to make fun of people for admitting they don't know things.
posted by jkaczor at 2:16 PM on March 1, 2019 [16 favorites]
His technical precision is obvious, but so is Kenny G’s
really? i thought he had a poor embouchure and a wavering sense of intonation, nothing close to clapton's mastery of his instrument
but i'm not a music writer, so it's not like i would know about that stuff
posted by pyramid termite at 2:20 PM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
really? i thought he had a poor embouchure and a wavering sense of intonation, nothing close to clapton's mastery of his instrument
but i'm not a music writer, so it's not like i would know about that stuff
posted by pyramid termite at 2:20 PM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
I don’t like his boring music and it’s news to me!
posted by rodlymight at 2:41 PM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by rodlymight at 2:41 PM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
every music fan
Uh, no. Ths is coming off as some kind of weird thing where like if you don't know this (I didn't, dgaf about clapton) you're not allowed to be a true music fan.
posted by axiom at 2:49 PM on March 1, 2019 [14 favorites]
Uh, no. Ths is coming off as some kind of weird thing where like if you don't know this (I didn't, dgaf about clapton) you're not allowed to be a true music fan.
posted by axiom at 2:49 PM on March 1, 2019 [14 favorites]
Ha. Ha. After all this the hipster coffee shop I’ve walked into is playing the unplugged “Layla.” I mean, I’ve heard worse.
(I actually—well, I don’t know if “like” is the right word—“can appreciate,” maybe—Cream & Derek & The Dominos & Blind Faith—creepy-ass cover notwithstanding, I actually do like; it’s the solo career that’s always left me cold, none of it helped by having heard it played to death for the last 40 years.)
posted by octobersurprise at 2:50 PM on March 1, 2019
(I actually—well, I don’t know if “like” is the right word—“can appreciate,” maybe—Cream & Derek & The Dominos & Blind Faith—creepy-ass cover notwithstanding, I actually do like; it’s the solo career that’s always left me cold, none of it helped by having heard it played to death for the last 40 years.)
posted by octobersurprise at 2:50 PM on March 1, 2019
It's a lazy, shitty article about a subject that every Clapton fan has heard about multiple times by now.
Not me - I *had* been a fan of his since 1990, been on BBS's and Fidonet, then usenet, then the web - and have NEVER heard of this until today.
(But, I have to admit - I don't go researching every artist/performer/actor I like to find dirt before I like them) (And, he is "meh"... one of the many white artists of that era ripping off Blues... seems to have been particularly bad with UK artists...)
posted by jkaczor at 2:51 PM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
Not me - I *had* been a fan of his since 1990, been on BBS's and Fidonet, then usenet, then the web - and have NEVER heard of this until today.
(But, I have to admit - I don't go researching every artist/performer/actor I like to find dirt before I like them) (And, he is "meh"... one of the many white artists of that era ripping off Blues... seems to have been particularly bad with UK artists...)
posted by jkaczor at 2:51 PM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
As long as we're sniping, I sorta want to like the Baffler on some level, but they just consistently rub me the wrong way. A holdover of the '90s "above it all" attitude?
What I mean is: What's the Matter with The Baffler?
posted by sjswitzer at 2:55 PM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
What I mean is: What's the Matter with The Baffler?
posted by sjswitzer at 2:55 PM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
it’s the solo career that’s always left me cold,
mostly agree, but that first album*, the one called Eric Clapton, is entirely okay to my ears, and as I suggested earlier, it pre-dates his getting serious about kicking the hard drugs. In fact, it would be a full four years before he released another solo record which, for me, is where the trouble really starts.
* it probably should be credited to Eric + Delaney + Bonnie + Friends given the credits.
posted by philip-random at 3:15 PM on March 1, 2019
mostly agree, but that first album*, the one called Eric Clapton, is entirely okay to my ears, and as I suggested earlier, it pre-dates his getting serious about kicking the hard drugs. In fact, it would be a full four years before he released another solo record which, for me, is where the trouble really starts.
* it probably should be credited to Eric + Delaney + Bonnie + Friends given the credits.
posted by philip-random at 3:15 PM on March 1, 2019
Came to call out the author for writing that Clapton "stole" Harrison's wife—glad (and not surprised) to find that point has already been covered.
I'm left wondering how that bone-headed remark made it to the final copy. Does The Baffler have editors?
I hope Marzoni spends at least as much time considering his attitude toward women/the fact that he essentially reduced Patty Boyd to a piece of property as he did critiquing Clapton.
posted by she's not there at 3:21 PM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
I'm left wondering how that bone-headed remark made it to the final copy. Does The Baffler have editors?
I hope Marzoni spends at least as much time considering his attitude toward women/the fact that he essentially reduced Patty Boyd to a piece of property as he did critiquing Clapton.
posted by she's not there at 3:21 PM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
Uh oh... I hope none of the people expressing surprise on hearing this ancient news about Clapton are not fans of Elvis Costello (like me, who loves his music).
I don't say this in defense of Elvis Costello or anything, but it would be nice to not turn this thread about one specific artist into a sweepstakes/compendium/sack race of all-time shitty things said by famous rockers over the last century.
posted by mykescipark at 3:55 PM on March 1, 2019 [8 favorites]
I don't say this in defense of Elvis Costello or anything, but it would be nice to not turn this thread about one specific artist into a sweepstakes/compendium/sack race of all-time shitty things said by famous rockers over the last century.
posted by mykescipark at 3:55 PM on March 1, 2019 [8 favorites]
It’s interesting to me that none of the musically-inclined people I’ve come across think much of Clapton, or point to him as an influential artist, and yet he is extremely well known. (I was also thinking he was well-respected, but that one’s a bit out the window now.)
I guess the reason for this disparity is that he has a high proportion of covers and co-writes in his catalog (as the article mentioned in reference to his Unplugged album). So although he may not have contributed much to the evolution of music, he can play to an audience. For me, technical chops are cool, but I’ve always gravitated towards artists whose work is largely original.
But is there a moral issue here with building a fabulously wealthy career by picking and choosing songs from a group of artists who had the cultural winds set against them? The article brought it up but I haven’t seen much mention of it in this thread. Sure, covering them gave them exposure, but it also gave Clapton the stage to make a ton of money off their songs (and apparently give hateful speeches to crowds when it struck his drunken fancy).
I’m really glad that nowadays, there is less of an industrial stranglehold on music distribution. Recording costs have come down enough that anyone can do it, and there are open distribution channels that can instantly reach the entire planet. We still need to figure out the compensation and discovery side, but at least the giants of the music industry can no longer sit around and decide what can and can’t make it to our ears.
posted by mantecol at 4:07 PM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
I guess the reason for this disparity is that he has a high proportion of covers and co-writes in his catalog (as the article mentioned in reference to his Unplugged album). So although he may not have contributed much to the evolution of music, he can play to an audience. For me, technical chops are cool, but I’ve always gravitated towards artists whose work is largely original.
But is there a moral issue here with building a fabulously wealthy career by picking and choosing songs from a group of artists who had the cultural winds set against them? The article brought it up but I haven’t seen much mention of it in this thread. Sure, covering them gave them exposure, but it also gave Clapton the stage to make a ton of money off their songs (and apparently give hateful speeches to crowds when it struck his drunken fancy).
I’m really glad that nowadays, there is less of an industrial stranglehold on music distribution. Recording costs have come down enough that anyone can do it, and there are open distribution channels that can instantly reach the entire planet. We still need to figure out the compensation and discovery side, but at least the giants of the music industry can no longer sit around and decide what can and can’t make it to our ears.
posted by mantecol at 4:07 PM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
It's a lazy, shitty article about a subject that every Clapton fan has heard about multiple times by now.
Consider that it is enjoyable for those of us who have always detested Eric Clapton and his crappy music to read yet another takedown of this "artist" who, for some reason, is still played on repeat on FM contemporary rock radio.
Drag him.
posted by JamesBay at 4:33 PM on March 1, 2019 [7 favorites]
Consider that it is enjoyable for those of us who have always detested Eric Clapton and his crappy music to read yet another takedown of this "artist" who, for some reason, is still played on repeat on FM contemporary rock radio.
Drag him.
posted by JamesBay at 4:33 PM on March 1, 2019 [7 favorites]
It seems worth noting that Eric Clapton is not a former racist. He's a continued racist — it's a recurring pattern with him. Say something super racist, and then apologize and insist you're not actually super racist (usually while still doubling down that Enoch Powell did have some good ideas).
Fuck that dude and his shitty-ass records.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 4:43 PM on March 1, 2019 [9 favorites]
Fuck that dude and his shitty-ass records.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 4:43 PM on March 1, 2019 [9 favorites]
Not a fan of Clapton but I was somewhat surprised to learn that the lead on While My Guitar Gently Weeps was overdubbed by him. I mean, in retrospect, yeah, that's Clapton.
Anyway, in the very unlikely chance case you missed it, here's a tribute where Price totally kills it and leaves that stage with a complete "fuck all y'all" gesture. Maybe not the classiest thing to do, but, like, was he going to... what?... hang out with those guys? Yeah, no.
posted by sjswitzer at 4:51 PM on March 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
Anyway, in the very unlikely chance case you missed it, here's a tribute where Price totally kills it and leaves that stage with a complete "fuck all y'all" gesture. Maybe not the classiest thing to do, but, like, was he going to... what?... hang out with those guys? Yeah, no.
posted by sjswitzer at 4:51 PM on March 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
For ethical models in white blues guitar, please see Stevie Ray Vaughan, who I sometimes fear carries dumb guy at the bar! associations that are very much the opposite of who we was. He took every opportunity, to the point of self-effacement, to talk about his influences: Albert King, Albert Collins, Howlin' Wolf and Hubert Sumlin, Buddy Guy, Freddie King, BB King, Lightnin' Hopkins, Jimi Hendrix, and so on. (Not the stereotype of a clearly inebriated white Texan.) Plus, he didn't give a shit about money, recognizing before and after his addiction that staying true to your values and helping others was more important.
posted by sylvanshine at 5:04 PM on March 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by sylvanshine at 5:04 PM on March 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
really? i thought he had a poor embouchure and a wavering sense of intonation, nothing close to clapton's mastery of his instrument
Yeah, Kenny G can hold notes for a long time, but he's not a masterful player or anything like that. From Pat Metheny's famous rant about him:
Yeah, Kenny G can hold notes for a long time, but he's not a masterful player or anything like that. From Pat Metheny's famous rant about him:
But he did show a knack for connecting to the basest impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three most effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast runs - never mind that there were lots of harmonic clams in them) at the key moments to elicit a powerful crowd reaction (over and over again). The other main thing I noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, played horribly out of tune - consistently sharp.posted by kenko at 5:14 PM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
… There must be hundreds, if not thousands of sax players around the world who are simply better improvising musicians than Kenny G on his chosen instruments. It would really surprise me if even he disagreed with that statement.
I just googled "is Kenny G racist" and you'll all be pleased to know that nothing came up on the first page of search results; enjoy him while you can
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:21 PM on March 1, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:21 PM on March 1, 2019 [10 favorites]
It’s interesting to me that none of the musically-inclined people I’ve come across think much of Clapton, or point to him as an influential artist, and yet he is extremely well known.
clapton's time was the 60s, when he was one of the few guitarists who really, really had it together - the sound, the tone, the influence of the right blues masters, the ability to improvise at length and the speed - there were few that could touch him at that time in the rock context - hendrix, of course, beck, page, d allman, d betts, jerry garcia, peter green
come the 70s and there were a ton of guitarists who were at his level - in the meantime, he got laid back, didn't play with the same urgency or fire and seemed to think that people wanted to hear him sing and interpret other people's songs as well as his own recycled stuff
i think cocaine's a great song, but he doesn't do it justice - i've heard bar bands tear that one up
his racism seems to be directed towards south asian and west indian peoples - i guess american black people get a pass because they do the music much of his career is based upon and aren't mean when he shows up to play with them
i find it real hard to relate to him as a bluesman because he's done so much commercial shit in his career - and there's no way you can tell me that he couldn't have done the pure blues trip as long as he really wanted to, with someone else singing, please - he's rarely touched the real fire in his vocals
but he went for the money and the occasionally decent rock/pop song - so layla was his last, truly important project and from then on, it's been hit or miss with miss becoming increasingly likely as time went on
posted by pyramid termite at 5:51 PM on March 1, 2019 [15 favorites]
clapton's time was the 60s, when he was one of the few guitarists who really, really had it together - the sound, the tone, the influence of the right blues masters, the ability to improvise at length and the speed - there were few that could touch him at that time in the rock context - hendrix, of course, beck, page, d allman, d betts, jerry garcia, peter green
come the 70s and there were a ton of guitarists who were at his level - in the meantime, he got laid back, didn't play with the same urgency or fire and seemed to think that people wanted to hear him sing and interpret other people's songs as well as his own recycled stuff
i think cocaine's a great song, but he doesn't do it justice - i've heard bar bands tear that one up
his racism seems to be directed towards south asian and west indian peoples - i guess american black people get a pass because they do the music much of his career is based upon and aren't mean when he shows up to play with them
i find it real hard to relate to him as a bluesman because he's done so much commercial shit in his career - and there's no way you can tell me that he couldn't have done the pure blues trip as long as he really wanted to, with someone else singing, please - he's rarely touched the real fire in his vocals
but he went for the money and the occasionally decent rock/pop song - so layla was his last, truly important project and from then on, it's been hit or miss with miss becoming increasingly likely as time went on
posted by pyramid termite at 5:51 PM on March 1, 2019 [15 favorites]
I just googled "is Kenny G racist" and you'll all be pleased to know that nothing came up on the first page of search results; enjoy him while you can
Kenny G is officially invited to attend all of my future parties, so long as he checks his saxophone at the door
posted by Atom Eyes at 5:55 PM on March 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
Kenny G is officially invited to attend all of my future parties, so long as he checks his saxophone at the door
posted by Atom Eyes at 5:55 PM on March 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
Richard Thompson's take on Kenny G - I agree with Pat Metheny..
posted by parki at 6:58 PM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by parki at 6:58 PM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
Metheny’s methodical take-down of Kenny G is a thing of beauty & legend. Richard Thompson played his riff on it live when I saw him about 15 years ago. He also did an outstanding cover of a Brittney Spears song - music is a funny thing.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:59 PM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:59 PM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
Today, Clapton is just one of dozens of "classic rock" guitarists and It's reasonable and understandable to not get why he was given god status. But during his Yardbirds and John Mayall's Bluesbreakers years he really did stand alone as the best of the best.
As for old white guys playing blues (disclaimer: I am one) I have no problem with that as long as they give proper credit to the originators, which Clapton did much more than his contemporaries.
But, yeah, fuck his racist beliefs.
posted by rocket88 at 9:12 PM on March 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
As for old white guys playing blues (disclaimer: I am one) I have no problem with that as long as they give proper credit to the originators, which Clapton did much more than his contemporaries.
But, yeah, fuck his racist beliefs.
posted by rocket88 at 9:12 PM on March 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
what rocket88 said ... except I'm not a guitarist. Mr. Clapton's a deeply flawed man but three things he got very right were:
1. the great and deep value of the American blues
2. he shared his love of these blues any way he could, and to such great affect that it really did change the world -- maybe you can't hear it in his old records now, but at the time he opened the door wide to all manner of wild and wonderful stuff ... if only in the very many people he encouraged and inspired.
3. his part on While My Guitar Gently Weeps
none of this by the way gets us much past 1970
posted by philip-random at 10:17 PM on March 1, 2019 [8 favorites]
1. the great and deep value of the American blues
2. he shared his love of these blues any way he could, and to such great affect that it really did change the world -- maybe you can't hear it in his old records now, but at the time he opened the door wide to all manner of wild and wonderful stuff ... if only in the very many people he encouraged and inspired.
3. his part on While My Guitar Gently Weeps
none of this by the way gets us much past 1970
posted by philip-random at 10:17 PM on March 1, 2019 [8 favorites]
... and, for the record, I'd rather Clapton showed up at my party than Metheny. I'm far more interested in negotiating an imbalanced asshole (with genius possibilities) than a charming, pretentious hack.
posted by philip-random at 10:20 PM on March 1, 2019
posted by philip-random at 10:20 PM on March 1, 2019
The Onion, on-point as always : Affluent White Man Enjoys, Causes the Blues
posted by panama joe at 6:11 AM on March 2, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by panama joe at 6:11 AM on March 2, 2019 [9 favorites]
... and, for the record, I'd rather Clapton showed up at my party than Metheny
whoops. I meant Kenny G there.
posted by philip-random at 6:17 AM on March 2, 2019
whoops. I meant Kenny G there.
posted by philip-random at 6:17 AM on March 2, 2019
The only party Clapton belongs in is the British National one.
posted by howfar at 7:43 AM on March 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by howfar at 7:43 AM on March 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
this ancient news about Clapton
As someone who plays blues guitar, is pretty familiar with Clapton's music and career, and is a big fan of electric blues generally I did not know this until I saw this post and read the piece. YMMV.
there's no way you can tell me that he couldn't have done the pure blues trip as long as he really wanted to, with someone else singing, please - he's rarely touched the real fire in his vocals
Yeah, I feel like From the Cradle would have been a decent homage to Clapton's influences if he'd handed over the vocals to people more suited than he to actually singing them. I always wanted to like that album but couldn't ever get there because, again, the vocals are grating.
please see Stevie Ray Vaughan, who I sometimes fear carries dumb guy at the bar! associations that are very much the opposite of who we was.
This got me thinking about From the Cradle vs. In Session as tributes/homages to influences. If I had to parse the difference, I'd say that SRV's sessions with King are more a musical conversation than a proclamation.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:36 AM on March 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
As someone who plays blues guitar, is pretty familiar with Clapton's music and career, and is a big fan of electric blues generally I did not know this until I saw this post and read the piece. YMMV.
there's no way you can tell me that he couldn't have done the pure blues trip as long as he really wanted to, with someone else singing, please - he's rarely touched the real fire in his vocals
Yeah, I feel like From the Cradle would have been a decent homage to Clapton's influences if he'd handed over the vocals to people more suited than he to actually singing them. I always wanted to like that album but couldn't ever get there because, again, the vocals are grating.
please see Stevie Ray Vaughan, who I sometimes fear carries dumb guy at the bar! associations that are very much the opposite of who we was.
This got me thinking about From the Cradle vs. In Session as tributes/homages to influences. If I had to parse the difference, I'd say that SRV's sessions with King are more a musical conversation than a proclamation.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:36 AM on March 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
My first ever awareness of Eric Clapton as an individual was his racist rant, which may be a function of my age & situation because I was really into punk music, communism and Chicago Blues at the time (go ahead roll your eyes), and I went to the Rock Against Racism show in Chicago (which apparently is where Brix met Mark E. Smith btw).
I never knew the exact text of the rant before, and it's even worse than I thought! I vaguely knew it had something to do with Enoch Powell's Rivers of Blood speech (also the first time I learned about that).
So it was always kind of surprising to me that Clapton got a pass and no more was said about it. It's all I've ever thought about when hearing his name.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:29 AM on March 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
I never knew the exact text of the rant before, and it's even worse than I thought! I vaguely knew it had something to do with Enoch Powell's Rivers of Blood speech (also the first time I learned about that).
So it was always kind of surprising to me that Clapton got a pass and no more was said about it. It's all I've ever thought about when hearing his name.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:29 AM on March 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
But he did show a knack for connecting to the basest impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three most effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast runs - never mind that there were lots of harmonic clams in them) at the key moments
So Kenny G was an EDM/Trance DJ of the saxophone? That makes a lot of sense, actually.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:58 AM on March 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
So Kenny G was an EDM/Trance DJ of the saxophone? That makes a lot of sense, actually.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 9:58 AM on March 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
It’s interesting to me that none of the musically-inclined people I’ve come across think much of Clapton, or point to him as an influential artist, and yet he is extremely well known.
Plenty of musicians I've known seem to respect Cream, or at least it was something they listened to in high school or thereabout. But that's three guys to look up to as musicians (probably not as human beings). Solo Clapton gets less interesting as his career goes on.
posted by atoxyl at 11:31 AM on March 2, 2019
Plenty of musicians I've known seem to respect Cream, or at least it was something they listened to in high school or thereabout. But that's three guys to look up to as musicians (probably not as human beings). Solo Clapton gets less interesting as his career goes on.
posted by atoxyl at 11:31 AM on March 2, 2019
Count me in as another one who finds little fire in anything Clapton did post-Layla. I've seen a few live things over the years where he delivers but on record he's been phoning it in since the Dominoes collapsed.
It's telling that whenever Page and Beck are interviewed and asked about EC, the comments are often back-handed or tepid, that he needs to be pushed on stage to deliver. I remember one interview back in the 90s with the two where they praised Keith Richards as the true interpreter of Robert Johnson. Apparently in that era Beck and Page would jam in Jeff's garage, Richards sat in whenever he could. They talked about seeing Robert Johnson-style licks from Keef that left Eric in the dust. And sadly, I'm sure none of it was ever recorded.
posted by Ber at 1:38 PM on March 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
It's telling that whenever Page and Beck are interviewed and asked about EC, the comments are often back-handed or tepid, that he needs to be pushed on stage to deliver. I remember one interview back in the 90s with the two where they praised Keith Richards as the true interpreter of Robert Johnson. Apparently in that era Beck and Page would jam in Jeff's garage, Richards sat in whenever he could. They talked about seeing Robert Johnson-style licks from Keef that left Eric in the dust. And sadly, I'm sure none of it was ever recorded.
posted by Ber at 1:38 PM on March 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
I’ve been playing guitar for 30+ years and am a huge fan of Clapton, from Bluesbreakers through Old Sock. All of it. Big fan.
He was the big swinging dick that set the bar in the 60’s for ferocious pentatonic lead playing. It hadn’t really been heard before. Mike Bloomfield maybe, but it was all Clapton.
Soon after Hendrix and Gallagher did it much better, and then the floodgate opened to Blackmore, Kossof, Page et al, then Van Halen set a new bar that saw a virtuoso race in the 80’s disguised as hair metal, then Satriani with his modal playing, then Vai, Bettencourt.....then Kurt Cobain ruined it all.
But Clapton was first.
Again, as a guitar player, his influence can’t be understated, the rest of “Clapton”....ehhhhhh.
I also will say that Clapton was/is a fantastic embassador for the blues of the past and future. Genuinely wonder if Clapton hadn’t helped relaunch interest in the genre with “Unplugged” would the current Gales, Marcus King, Clark Jr, Schofield, Bonamassa et al have the financial success they have.
Anyway, great guitar player with a well earned place in music history, even if his later career was less than inspiring.
posted by remlapm at 2:09 PM on March 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
He was the big swinging dick that set the bar in the 60’s for ferocious pentatonic lead playing. It hadn’t really been heard before. Mike Bloomfield maybe, but it was all Clapton.
Soon after Hendrix and Gallagher did it much better, and then the floodgate opened to Blackmore, Kossof, Page et al, then Van Halen set a new bar that saw a virtuoso race in the 80’s disguised as hair metal, then Satriani with his modal playing, then Vai, Bettencourt.....then Kurt Cobain ruined it all.
But Clapton was first.
Again, as a guitar player, his influence can’t be understated, the rest of “Clapton”....ehhhhhh.
I also will say that Clapton was/is a fantastic embassador for the blues of the past and future. Genuinely wonder if Clapton hadn’t helped relaunch interest in the genre with “Unplugged” would the current Gales, Marcus King, Clark Jr, Schofield, Bonamassa et al have the financial success they have.
Anyway, great guitar player with a well earned place in music history, even if his later career was less than inspiring.
posted by remlapm at 2:09 PM on March 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
....then Kurt Cobain ruined it all.
god bless him
posted by philip-random at 4:21 PM on March 2, 2019 [6 favorites]
god bless him
posted by philip-random at 4:21 PM on March 2, 2019 [6 favorites]
“god bless him”
It’s rare that someone comes along and changes the direction of ‘rock’ music, at least with guitar, but that certainly was Cobain. I was 13 when Nevermind came out and looking back we all (my high school guitar playing cohort) mostly shifted from learning to shred to embrace grunge. Mike McCready was the big dog of guitar in Seattle around this time and dialed his playing back in Pearl Jam. Rivers Cuomo was a ripping shred guitar player and Weezer’s debut has, like, two guitar solos.
I would argue that Clapton had the same effect, if in reverse. After he came out guitar players were expected to rip, tasteful phrasing be damned. The birth of a guitar god, songs as an afterthought. I think the only person before him to have this profound guitar influence was Chuck Berry, maybe Django or Christian.
Clapton has a questionable career, no doubt, but he had the chops at the right time, right place. Lucky guy.
posted by remlapm at 5:53 PM on March 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
It’s rare that someone comes along and changes the direction of ‘rock’ music, at least with guitar, but that certainly was Cobain. I was 13 when Nevermind came out and looking back we all (my high school guitar playing cohort) mostly shifted from learning to shred to embrace grunge. Mike McCready was the big dog of guitar in Seattle around this time and dialed his playing back in Pearl Jam. Rivers Cuomo was a ripping shred guitar player and Weezer’s debut has, like, two guitar solos.
I would argue that Clapton had the same effect, if in reverse. After he came out guitar players were expected to rip, tasteful phrasing be damned. The birth of a guitar god, songs as an afterthought. I think the only person before him to have this profound guitar influence was Chuck Berry, maybe Django or Christian.
Clapton has a questionable career, no doubt, but he had the chops at the right time, right place. Lucky guy.
posted by remlapm at 5:53 PM on March 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
"Also, JJ Cale is God."
I discovered Mr Cale and Mr Clapton about the same time in my teen years.
Forty years later, I still have several Cale albums in my music collection, and 2 of them (Troubador, and Shades) are on my list of 10 to take to a desert island.
I have never owned a Clapton album.
posted by Pouteria at 7:48 PM on March 2, 2019
I discovered Mr Cale and Mr Clapton about the same time in my teen years.
Forty years later, I still have several Cale albums in my music collection, and 2 of them (Troubador, and Shades) are on my list of 10 to take to a desert island.
I have never owned a Clapton album.
posted by Pouteria at 7:48 PM on March 2, 2019
'Let It Rain' was playing in the supermarket a few weeks ago, and I paused for a moment to appreciate the mellow guitar riffing, first time I'd thought of him in decades..
I'd agree that his art has not been interesting since his prime. His drunken outburst back then was part of the ugliness brought to the surface that helped to spur Rock Against Racism, as mentioned above.
posted by ovvl at 8:33 PM on March 2, 2019
I'd agree that his art has not been interesting since his prime. His drunken outburst back then was part of the ugliness brought to the surface that helped to spur Rock Against Racism, as mentioned above.
posted by ovvl at 8:33 PM on March 2, 2019
One of my friends and I once half-jokingly created a douchebag checklist for dudes our mothers dated when we were in high school in the early 1990s. One of the first few categories, after "Has personalized license plate on car referencing brand of car" and "wears necklaces" was "spent entire first time he met me lecturing about the genius of Eric Clapton"
posted by thivaia at 9:16 PM on March 2, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 9:16 PM on March 2, 2019 [7 favorites]
I wish I could find it again, but I remember an article or thread discussing how Rock n' Roll (a largely mixed-race art form) became Rock (an almost entirely white art form). And like, trying to pinpoint the exact moment when that happened. I remember one idea was that the Rock Guitar God Era of the late-60s/early-70s was what killed Rock n' Roll. Dunno if there's any merit to it, but it's certainly an interesting idea.
posted by panama joe at 7:48 AM on March 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by panama joe at 7:48 AM on March 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
how Rock n' Roll (a largely mixed-race art form) became Rock (an almost entirely white art form). And like, trying to pinpoint the exact moment when that happened.
a DJ friend who's spent a fair amount of time in Detroit and NYC and really made a life's work of so-called House Music opines that the murder of Martin Luther King was a huge factor. Suddenly all the flower power peace and love "everybody's gotta to free" sentiments were crashing and burning, there was a obvious and odious divide in the nation's soul that no amount of wishful thinking was going to bridge ... and the what the f*** were all those white guys doing going to the bank with our music?
I've heard Jethro Tull's Ian Anderson make much the same point from an entirely different angle. That stuff like Prog Rock grew out of white guys suddenly realizing they had no business going to the bank with the Blues, that if they were going to plunder old forms, they'd best look to their own roots (classical, folk, etc).
Something happened for sure if my ears are indication. A quick look at my record collection reveals pretty much zero examples of white-guys-working-the-blues that were recorded past about 1972.
posted by philip-random at 8:30 AM on March 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
a DJ friend who's spent a fair amount of time in Detroit and NYC and really made a life's work of so-called House Music opines that the murder of Martin Luther King was a huge factor. Suddenly all the flower power peace and love "everybody's gotta to free" sentiments were crashing and burning, there was a obvious and odious divide in the nation's soul that no amount of wishful thinking was going to bridge ... and the what the f*** were all those white guys doing going to the bank with our music?
I've heard Jethro Tull's Ian Anderson make much the same point from an entirely different angle. That stuff like Prog Rock grew out of white guys suddenly realizing they had no business going to the bank with the Blues, that if they were going to plunder old forms, they'd best look to their own roots (classical, folk, etc).
Something happened for sure if my ears are indication. A quick look at my record collection reveals pretty much zero examples of white-guys-working-the-blues that were recorded past about 1972.
posted by philip-random at 8:30 AM on March 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
And like, trying to pinpoint the exact moment when that happened.
The British Invasion, surely?
I've been peeking into this history of the Billboard charts this morning, and it's interesting to note that there's only been a Rock chart since 1981 (now called Mainstream Rock, but there's also another chart called Hot Rock since 2009). Most of what we think of now as Rock & Roll would have either been on the main Hot 100 or on the Rhythm & Blues Top 100 chart.
Here's what Wikipedia has to say about the R&B chart, which is an interesting microcosm of, like, race relations in general throughout the 60s:
The British Invasion, surely?
I've been peeking into this history of the Billboard charts this morning, and it's interesting to note that there's only been a Rock chart since 1981 (now called Mainstream Rock, but there's also another chart called Hot Rock since 2009). Most of what we think of now as Rock & Roll would have either been on the main Hot 100 or on the Rhythm & Blues Top 100 chart.
Here's what Wikipedia has to say about the R&B chart, which is an interesting microcosm of, like, race relations in general throughout the 60s:
From November 30, 1963, to January 23, 1965, there were no Billboard R&B singles charts. The chart was discontinued in late 1963 when Billboard determined it unnecessary due to so much crossover of titles between the R&B and pop charts in light of the rise of Motown. The chart was reinstated with the issue dated January 30, 1965, as "Hot Rhythm and Blues Singles" when differences in musical tastes of the two audiences, caused in part by the British Invasion in 1964, were deemed sufficient to revive it.posted by tobascodagama at 8:39 AM on March 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
Beginning August 23, 1969, the rhythm and blues was replaced in favor of "soul", and the chart was renamed to "Best Selling Soul Singles". The move was made by a Billboard editorial decision that the term "soul" more accurately accounted for the "broad range of song and instrumental material which derives from the musical genius of the black American".
Are we really going to accept the implication that a man (even a racist appropriative shit of a man) saw the death of his son as a business opportunity?
Yes. Yes we are.
I seem to recall that the death of children isn't a topic we handle particularly well, tho.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:57 AM on March 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
Yes. Yes we are.
I seem to recall that the death of children isn't a topic we handle particularly well, tho.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:57 AM on March 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
creepy-ass cover notwithstanding
Heh, just pulled that album out of the stack the other day. What the living fuck possessed those guys to put that girl on the jacket like that, who can possibly say? Apparently, cocaine is a hell of a drug.
posted by e1c at 10:14 AM on March 5, 2019
Heh, just pulled that album out of the stack the other day. What the living fuck possessed those guys to put that girl on the jacket like that, who can possibly say? Apparently, cocaine is a hell of a drug.
posted by e1c at 10:14 AM on March 5, 2019
The Young Girl Featured On The “Blind Faith” Album Cover
posted by philip-random at 9:01 AM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 9:01 AM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
I saw Clapton in concert in the early 90s, at my then girlfriend's behest.
I did not enjoy it.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:06 PM on March 6, 2019
I did not enjoy it.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:06 PM on March 6, 2019
how Rock n' Roll (a largely mixed-race art form) became Rock (an almost entirely white art form). And like, trying to pinpoint the exact moment when that happened.
Must be time for a link to the Godmother of Rock and Roll Rosetta Tharpe!
posted by quacks like a duck at 7:14 AM on March 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
Must be time for a link to the Godmother of Rock and Roll Rosetta Tharpe!
posted by quacks like a duck at 7:14 AM on March 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
come the 70s and there were a ton of guitarists who were at his levelHe's an epic asshole in his own right, but it was fun to watch Robbie Robertson wipe the floor with Clapton at the Last Waltz. Clapton was too fucked up to figure out why his guitar strap wasn't working, which even the people in the cheap seats could see. And his playing was just kinda lame besides.
posted by klanawa at 4:36 PM on March 14, 2019
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posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:57 AM on March 1, 2019 [10 favorites]