The Console Killer?
March 6, 2019 11:10 AM Subscribe
The game Anthem, a loot shooter developed by Bioware for EA, promised to be a game-changer, as it were, for a company known better for the role-playing aspects of game series such as Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. Bioware had high hopes for the game, which was code-named "Dylan" while in production because they hoped that it would be as revolutionary in the game world as Bob Zimmerman was in music. The game debuted last month, to mixed reviews(PS4, XBox One), with a range of complaints (list on Kotaku); the latest one is that the game would seem to not only crash, but actually brick the PS4 console in some cases. (Although there is apparently a fix.)
The issue also apparently affects XBoxes. The game, officially released February 22nd, has already dropped $9 in price for the PS4 version on Amazon, and there have been unconfirmed reports of Sony refunding some digital purchases of the game, although this has been disputed.
The issue also apparently affects XBoxes. The game, officially released February 22nd, has already dropped $9 in price for the PS4 version on Amazon, and there have been unconfirmed reports of Sony refunding some digital purchases of the game, although this has been disputed.
What is it with this category of games that make them suck so much? Destiny had the same issues. There's nothing groundbreaking or difficult about these games that warrants this level of brokenness and bugs. I don't get it.
Also, smh at the idea that Bioware and EA weren't aware of the countless problems facing Anthem. You've been working on the title for half a decade and you didn't discover that your game is boring and broken when reviewers experienced this in just a few hours?
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:28 AM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Also, smh at the idea that Bioware and EA weren't aware of the countless problems facing Anthem. You've been working on the title for half a decade and you didn't discover that your game is boring and broken when reviewers experienced this in just a few hours?
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:28 AM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Apex Legends is developed by Respawn, and is also published by EA. It's being almost universally praised.
posted by clinthowarth at 11:41 AM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by clinthowarth at 11:41 AM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
Apex Legends is developed by Respawn, and is also published by EA.
And I'm glad to whatever gods there are that allowed Respawn to produce the game the way they wanted to produce on their terms without EA getting all loot-boxy and ruining yet another game.
posted by Fizz at 11:43 AM on March 6, 2019
And I'm glad to whatever gods there are that allowed Respawn to produce the game the way they wanted to produce on their terms without EA getting all loot-boxy and ruining yet another game.
posted by Fizz at 11:43 AM on March 6, 2019
What is it with this category of games that make them suck so much? Destiny had the same issues. There's nothing groundbreaking or difficult about these games that warrants this level of brokenness and bugs. I don't get it.
There's a basic, unavoidable relationship between speed, complexity, and fragility. The bigger the game world (not just physically, but mathematically), the more ways things can go wrong. This is why Bethesda games are notoriously buggy: There's no way to check every possible combination of circumstances before launch, followed by thousands of players pushing the game's boundaries and posting their hilarious discoveries to Youtube within days of launch, often with instructions about how to replicate the problem.
Meanwhile, the faster the action, the more the developers have to rely on shortcuts that can have unintended consequences. Minimally plausible physics engines, destructible environments, all of these things are computationally hard, so approximating them with good FPS requires cutting corners. I don't care how good your GPU is: Games that run smooth as silk are doing some serious prestidigitation behind the scenes to give you the impression that everything works well. This isn't just a problem of reaction time: It's also a problem of knowing when to load and unload assets, and how to do so in a way that a minimally perceptible to the player. In open-world games that tend to have a relatively slow pace to play, this is easier to handle, but in an FPS or action context, even small drops in FPS or brief loading times can be intensely frustrating.
Speed issues are then compounded by the online component, because ensuring that people playing the same thousands of miles apart experience the same world with low latency multiplies the number of shortcuts needed, and thus the potential for things to work other than intended. This also introduces a huge new problem: cheating. Doing the calculations server-side to keep people from using memory hacks puts the developers in an impossible bind. Most games that handle this well do so because the environment is relatively small and polished (often with case-specific fixes for edge conditions), but as noted above, this isn't a realistic expectation in something with a huge open-world feel.
The irony is that many of these issues would be potentially solvable (or at least, less game-breaking) if it weren't for the relentless grind of next-gen graphics & engines. With each new engine, there are new problems and new fixes that need to happen, so games like Anthem that have had really long development times are actually having to reinvent the wheel over time just to keep up, guaranteeing that the game won't be "finished" at launch because "finishing" the game would require another two years of development with no engine changes, which isn't likely to happen for one of these AAA titles. By contrast, titles that were developed rapidly have a comparative advantage, because they aren't having to be overhauled when a new engine gets foist upon them mid-stream.
posted by belarius at 11:47 AM on March 6, 2019 [26 favorites]
There's a basic, unavoidable relationship between speed, complexity, and fragility. The bigger the game world (not just physically, but mathematically), the more ways things can go wrong. This is why Bethesda games are notoriously buggy: There's no way to check every possible combination of circumstances before launch, followed by thousands of players pushing the game's boundaries and posting their hilarious discoveries to Youtube within days of launch, often with instructions about how to replicate the problem.
Meanwhile, the faster the action, the more the developers have to rely on shortcuts that can have unintended consequences. Minimally plausible physics engines, destructible environments, all of these things are computationally hard, so approximating them with good FPS requires cutting corners. I don't care how good your GPU is: Games that run smooth as silk are doing some serious prestidigitation behind the scenes to give you the impression that everything works well. This isn't just a problem of reaction time: It's also a problem of knowing when to load and unload assets, and how to do so in a way that a minimally perceptible to the player. In open-world games that tend to have a relatively slow pace to play, this is easier to handle, but in an FPS or action context, even small drops in FPS or brief loading times can be intensely frustrating.
Speed issues are then compounded by the online component, because ensuring that people playing the same thousands of miles apart experience the same world with low latency multiplies the number of shortcuts needed, and thus the potential for things to work other than intended. This also introduces a huge new problem: cheating. Doing the calculations server-side to keep people from using memory hacks puts the developers in an impossible bind. Most games that handle this well do so because the environment is relatively small and polished (often with case-specific fixes for edge conditions), but as noted above, this isn't a realistic expectation in something with a huge open-world feel.
The irony is that many of these issues would be potentially solvable (or at least, less game-breaking) if it weren't for the relentless grind of next-gen graphics & engines. With each new engine, there are new problems and new fixes that need to happen, so games like Anthem that have had really long development times are actually having to reinvent the wheel over time just to keep up, guaranteeing that the game won't be "finished" at launch because "finishing" the game would require another two years of development with no engine changes, which isn't likely to happen for one of these AAA titles. By contrast, titles that were developed rapidly have a comparative advantage, because they aren't having to be overhauled when a new engine gets foist upon them mid-stream.
posted by belarius at 11:47 AM on March 6, 2019 [26 favorites]
What I find interesting about all of this (and it's awful that people are having their systems bricked because of this) is that this game is also just not that interesting to begin with.
Jim Sterling's "Let's Mock Anthem for Crashing Players' PS4s!" video starts off pretty much as you'd expect, but he quickly segues into an extended rattling-off of other games that were extremely well-received and continue to be fondly-remembered despite numerous gamebreaking bugs. (Yes, both Skyrim and New Vegas make an appearance there.)
The bottom line that he eventually got to: your game can ride out some pretty bad bugs as long as it's interesting enough that there are things to discuss about it other than bugs. Anthem doesn't seem to have crossed that very low bar. Even the YouTube guys I follow who like Anthem are mostly doing videos about what BioWare could do to make the game better. Not a good sign.
And I'm glad to whatever gods there are that allowed Respawn to produce the game the way they wanted to produce on their terms without EA getting all loot-boxy and ruining yet another game.
Well, I mean, it actually is pretty damned lootboxy, what with the thing where the free crates you get every level suddenly start dropping every other level instead after a certain point and then stop completely once you reach the current level cap.
That being said, the monetization is the only thing I don't like about Apex. Respawn says that EA had no say over the game design itself. I was skeptical at first, but given that the game hasn't seen any marketing beyond the initial push of Twitch sponsored streams, I'm starting to believe it. It really does seem like EA was ignoring Apex completely (beyond requesting the injection of cosmetic lootboxes) until it turned into a surprise hit.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:57 AM on March 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
Jim Sterling's "Let's Mock Anthem for Crashing Players' PS4s!" video starts off pretty much as you'd expect, but he quickly segues into an extended rattling-off of other games that were extremely well-received and continue to be fondly-remembered despite numerous gamebreaking bugs. (Yes, both Skyrim and New Vegas make an appearance there.)
The bottom line that he eventually got to: your game can ride out some pretty bad bugs as long as it's interesting enough that there are things to discuss about it other than bugs. Anthem doesn't seem to have crossed that very low bar. Even the YouTube guys I follow who like Anthem are mostly doing videos about what BioWare could do to make the game better. Not a good sign.
And I'm glad to whatever gods there are that allowed Respawn to produce the game the way they wanted to produce on their terms without EA getting all loot-boxy and ruining yet another game.
Well, I mean, it actually is pretty damned lootboxy, what with the thing where the free crates you get every level suddenly start dropping every other level instead after a certain point and then stop completely once you reach the current level cap.
That being said, the monetization is the only thing I don't like about Apex. Respawn says that EA had no say over the game design itself. I was skeptical at first, but given that the game hasn't seen any marketing beyond the initial push of Twitch sponsored streams, I'm starting to believe it. It really does seem like EA was ignoring Apex completely (beyond requesting the injection of cosmetic lootboxes) until it turned into a surprise hit.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:57 AM on March 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
I just want a single-player game with a story and companions I am interested in. Like I got with Mass Effect and Dragon's Age. Point me at them, the rest of this junk does not interest me.
posted by rewil at 11:59 AM on March 6, 2019 [27 favorites]
posted by rewil at 11:59 AM on March 6, 2019 [27 favorites]
Actually, the biggest sign that EA was ignoring Apex is that it's still using a Source-derived engine like Titanfall 2 did instead of being painfully shoehorned into Frostbite like BioWare's post-acquisition output.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:00 PM on March 6, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 12:00 PM on March 6, 2019 [5 favorites]
Anthem is just sad. Not like "that's the best you could do?" or some game-forum "fall of Bioware" narrative, it's sad because it's so obviously not what anyone wanted it to be. (I guess that's true of most creative endeavors, but more so here.) Just imagine being at one of the most respected studios in the business and getting to work on a project that's supposed to have a bigger impact than Mass Effect.
People worked hard on this game, and I don't just mean crunch. Some specific elements of the game like the movement mechanics and world-building have received critical praise and are obviously products of lots of care and effort. Even the stuff that doesn't work, like the bugs, gear issues, lack of cohesion, and lack of interesting endgame content, doesn't feel half-assed, just that it failed to come together before it shipped.
When the insider post-mortem reporting on Anthem comes in a couple years, I have a solid guess what it's going to look like. Ambitious early design, constant technical struggles to get it working, late-development revamp to fit current market trends, capped off with major scope cuts in the final year to try and hit the deadline.
posted by skymt at 12:03 PM on March 6, 2019 [5 favorites]
People worked hard on this game, and I don't just mean crunch. Some specific elements of the game like the movement mechanics and world-building have received critical praise and are obviously products of lots of care and effort. Even the stuff that doesn't work, like the bugs, gear issues, lack of cohesion, and lack of interesting endgame content, doesn't feel half-assed, just that it failed to come together before it shipped.
When the insider post-mortem reporting on Anthem comes in a couple years, I have a solid guess what it's going to look like. Ambitious early design, constant technical struggles to get it working, late-development revamp to fit current market trends, capped off with major scope cuts in the final year to try and hit the deadline.
posted by skymt at 12:03 PM on March 6, 2019 [5 favorites]
Apparently your starting gun is the best weapon in the game?
(link to a tweet saying "kinda says a lot when the default gun in your looter shooter is the best weapon in the game. anthem is truly the gift that keeps on giving" with screencaps of this reddit post)
posted by ODiV at 12:10 PM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
(link to a tweet saying "kinda says a lot when the default gun in your looter shooter is the best weapon in the game. anthem is truly the gift that keeps on giving" with screencaps of this reddit post)
posted by ODiV at 12:10 PM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Apex Legends is developed by Respawn, and is also published by EA. It's being almost universally praised.
Allow me the pleasure of being outside that universe:
Apex has a lot of things going for it, but after a couple dozen hours it was clear to me that they fundamentally misunderstand what a lot of people find fun about battle royale type games. Most notably, the looting is tedious and stupid. Having to loot your gear is interesting when it means you're having to adapt to what weapons you can find. Having to loot your gear is mind-numbing and distracting when there's literally quality tiers of things like the stock you're putting on your weapon.
When PUBG went from having only 2 kinds of grips for weapons to literally 6 kinds, that was not an improvement. Apex takes it to a new level, with all sorts of needlessly differentiated junk you have to worry about, and a bunch of "literally only fits on one or two weapons" upgrades (some of which the weapons are trash without). All of it is the illusion of depth when in reality it's a bunch of noise getting in the way of actually enjoying the game.
To add to this, not a novel complaint, but the time-to-kill in Apex is dreadfully long. It results in a game that is designed to privilege raw mechanical shooting skill over tactics, positioning, or anything else, by an order of magnitude. Get the drop on someone? Doesn't matter. Take a better position? Doesn't matter. Best mouse skills wins.
I bounced out after trying really hard to love it, which is a shame because goddamn is it everywhere...
posted by tocts at 12:13 PM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Allow me the pleasure of being outside that universe:
Apex has a lot of things going for it, but after a couple dozen hours it was clear to me that they fundamentally misunderstand what a lot of people find fun about battle royale type games. Most notably, the looting is tedious and stupid. Having to loot your gear is interesting when it means you're having to adapt to what weapons you can find. Having to loot your gear is mind-numbing and distracting when there's literally quality tiers of things like the stock you're putting on your weapon.
When PUBG went from having only 2 kinds of grips for weapons to literally 6 kinds, that was not an improvement. Apex takes it to a new level, with all sorts of needlessly differentiated junk you have to worry about, and a bunch of "literally only fits on one or two weapons" upgrades (some of which the weapons are trash without). All of it is the illusion of depth when in reality it's a bunch of noise getting in the way of actually enjoying the game.
To add to this, not a novel complaint, but the time-to-kill in Apex is dreadfully long. It results in a game that is designed to privilege raw mechanical shooting skill over tactics, positioning, or anything else, by an order of magnitude. Get the drop on someone? Doesn't matter. Take a better position? Doesn't matter. Best mouse skills wins.
I bounced out after trying really hard to love it, which is a shame because goddamn is it everywhere...
posted by tocts at 12:13 PM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'm not usually one to blame the victims, but why do gamers keep doing this to themselves? The trend is always high expectations, massive amounts of preorders for the game, game is released, is completely disappointing, has expensive DLC, everyone hates it, rinse, repeat.
Just stop. Make it so that publishers are rewarded for actually publishing good games instead of whatever big budget crap they foist on the public. Don't buy DLC. Demand refunds when games are garbage. And stop preordering stuff. Let it get released, wait for reviews, buy it if it's good. Publishers won't change because they don't have any incentive to change. If a game is truly bad they may lose money, but they still take in a ton of revenue from people buying a game they haven't even seen yet.
The industry needs another Atari VCS style reckoning.
posted by mikesch at 12:19 PM on March 6, 2019 [10 favorites]
Just stop. Make it so that publishers are rewarded for actually publishing good games instead of whatever big budget crap they foist on the public. Don't buy DLC. Demand refunds when games are garbage. And stop preordering stuff. Let it get released, wait for reviews, buy it if it's good. Publishers won't change because they don't have any incentive to change. If a game is truly bad they may lose money, but they still take in a ton of revenue from people buying a game they haven't even seen yet.
The industry needs another Atari VCS style reckoning.
posted by mikesch at 12:19 PM on March 6, 2019 [10 favorites]
Bioware had high hopes for the game, which was code-named "Dylan" while in production because they hoped that it would be as revolutionary in the game world as Bob Zimmerman was in music.
Hahahaha holy shit I had completely forgotten about this
posted by Automocar at 12:23 PM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Hahahaha holy shit I had completely forgotten about this
posted by Automocar at 12:23 PM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Yeah, this is why I simply won't play Anthem. When Bioware ships a Mass Effect or a Dragon Age with major bugs, I can simply wait a couple of months until they're all patched, and still enjoy the game.
By the time I get to Anthem, it will either be full of people who've been playing it for months regardless of performance (which means I'll spend a lot of time getting insta-ganked), or it will (more likely) be a wasteland full of extremely high-resolution tumbleweeds (*cough*Titanfall I *cough*). I really have no desire to involve myself in a multiplayer game with no compelling campaign or narrative.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:24 PM on March 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
By the time I get to Anthem, it will either be full of people who've been playing it for months regardless of performance (which means I'll spend a lot of time getting insta-ganked), or it will (more likely) be a wasteland full of extremely high-resolution tumbleweeds (*cough*Titanfall I *cough*). I really have no desire to involve myself in a multiplayer game with no compelling campaign or narrative.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:24 PM on March 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
I learned somewhere around World of Warcraft that in online-only games like this, it's wise give it at a couple months to marinate in the Internet Hate Machine before jumping on board, so I'm kind of glad I haven't shelled out for it. I did play the demo and thought the game's bones felt pretty good. I'm hearing a lot about bugs and a lot about a need for more content, but those are both things that a lot of these games can improve on a lot in the medium term.
So I think the problems are addressable? If it can hang in there through the bad first impression, flesh it out and tighten the nuts and bolts some, the game might actually build itself into something pretty good.
Of course, that can't address the problem that WarFrame is available and fun for practically free right now. Who's got $60 for a game that's halfway there?
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:24 PM on March 6, 2019
So I think the problems are addressable? If it can hang in there through the bad first impression, flesh it out and tighten the nuts and bolts some, the game might actually build itself into something pretty good.
Of course, that can't address the problem that WarFrame is available and fun for practically free right now. Who's got $60 for a game that's halfway there?
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:24 PM on March 6, 2019
I just want a single-player game with a story and companions I am interested in. Like I got with Mass Effect and Dragon's Age.
I agree, and something like Witcher 3 is pretty clearly the pinnacle of that for a pure single player experience.
But if you want it in a game that's also got looter/team shooter/team PvE elements, is there any chance Division 2 will have a story mode that fills that hole, or is it going to descend into PvP madness like Division 1 did?
posted by The Bellman at 12:36 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
I agree, and something like Witcher 3 is pretty clearly the pinnacle of that for a pure single player experience.
But if you want it in a game that's also got looter/team shooter/team PvE elements, is there any chance Division 2 will have a story mode that fills that hole, or is it going to descend into PvP madness like Division 1 did?
posted by The Bellman at 12:36 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
I learned somewhere around World of Warcraft that in online-only games like this, it's wise give it at a couple months to marinate in the Internet Hate Machine before jumping on board, so I'm kind of glad I haven't shelled out for it.
I think this is getting harder and harder to do, mostly because these online gaming services are very fickle and an entire community will come and go in that amount of time. Maybe not entirely but it feels that way when you jump on and the servers are bare bones or you're only playing the same 10 people over and over again.
Personally, I don't care because I don't like these types of games and I avoid them. I dislike how loot-boxy they've become and I vote with my dollars and I've avoided giving any money to EA for the last 10 years. And I know this has caused me to miss out on a number of games that I would have probably enjoyed (I mean at least on a story-level I would have enjoyed them), but fuck EA.
Someone asked up above why gamers keep doing this to themselves and well, I wish I knew. People love to get outraged and say "FUCK EA!" but then a lot of people don't follow through with the "FUCK EA!" part of gaming and they just move on to the next outrage game. And from a corporate level, they keep loot-boxing the fuck out of games because it keeps on working and it's profitable.
🤷🏽
If you need me I'll be on my 300th hour of Binding of Isaac.
posted by Fizz at 12:40 PM on March 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
I think this is getting harder and harder to do, mostly because these online gaming services are very fickle and an entire community will come and go in that amount of time. Maybe not entirely but it feels that way when you jump on and the servers are bare bones or you're only playing the same 10 people over and over again.
Personally, I don't care because I don't like these types of games and I avoid them. I dislike how loot-boxy they've become and I vote with my dollars and I've avoided giving any money to EA for the last 10 years. And I know this has caused me to miss out on a number of games that I would have probably enjoyed (I mean at least on a story-level I would have enjoyed them), but fuck EA.
Someone asked up above why gamers keep doing this to themselves and well, I wish I knew. People love to get outraged and say "FUCK EA!" but then a lot of people don't follow through with the "FUCK EA!" part of gaming and they just move on to the next outrage game. And from a corporate level, they keep loot-boxing the fuck out of games because it keeps on working and it's profitable.
🤷🏽
If you need me I'll be on my 300th hour of Binding of Isaac.
posted by Fizz at 12:40 PM on March 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
Preorder books, not games.
posted by pykrete jungle at 12:53 PM on March 6, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by pykrete jungle at 12:53 PM on March 6, 2019 [8 favorites]
I was looking forward to Anthem, but I'm feeling meh, now - if I do buy it, it will be because my friends are playing it and I like to hang out with my friends.
We liked Destiny because it was the right mixture of single-player and multiplayer for us. It was really flexible in terms of switching between single-player and multiplayer activities, which meant people could drop in and out without having to coordinate their busy schedules, unless you were trying to do a raid. The downside was that there was never enough "end game" content, so the single-player activities got repetitive real fast, and the incentive to keep doing was that the feel of playing the game was really good, and because you were chasing a loot drop. That can only take you so far though.
We tried Division, but I couldn't play it (made me motion sick), and it just wasn't as compelling in the moment. Tedious is the word. Apparently they fixed some of the issues around it being super boring, but it was too late for us. And now it's PvP world? I dunno.
So I was hoping Anthem would be able to take some of the criticisms of Destiny and address them, but it seems like, no...
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:56 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
We liked Destiny because it was the right mixture of single-player and multiplayer for us. It was really flexible in terms of switching between single-player and multiplayer activities, which meant people could drop in and out without having to coordinate their busy schedules, unless you were trying to do a raid. The downside was that there was never enough "end game" content, so the single-player activities got repetitive real fast, and the incentive to keep doing was that the feel of playing the game was really good, and because you were chasing a loot drop. That can only take you so far though.
We tried Division, but I couldn't play it (made me motion sick), and it just wasn't as compelling in the moment. Tedious is the word. Apparently they fixed some of the issues around it being super boring, but it was too late for us. And now it's PvP world? I dunno.
So I was hoping Anthem would be able to take some of the criticisms of Destiny and address them, but it seems like, no...
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:56 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
which was code-named "Dylan" while in production because they hoped that it would be as revolutionary in the game world as Bob Zimmerman was in music.
This was delusional, of course, but I kind of like the idea of codenaming games after folk musicians. Titanfall 2 would be, what, Fairport Convention?
posted by Iridic at 1:00 PM on March 6, 2019 [5 favorites]
This was delusional, of course, but I kind of like the idea of codenaming games after folk musicians. Titanfall 2 would be, what, Fairport Convention?
posted by Iridic at 1:00 PM on March 6, 2019 [5 favorites]
I've just grown to accept that Bioware is just another studio these days, and the torch for the kinds of story development I want out of games has clearly passed on to Supergiant and Hare Brained Schemes (a bit less) for now.
Yes, I know about Pillars of Eternity, it's the game I desperately want to love but somehow can't. Supergiant is pretty much the only publisher I'll consider pre-ordering from these days because Jen Zee and Darren Korb together are the Bob Dylan of gaming, able to create beautiful emotional experiences using the tools they have available.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 1:00 PM on March 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
Yes, I know about Pillars of Eternity, it's the game I desperately want to love but somehow can't. Supergiant is pretty much the only publisher I'll consider pre-ordering from these days because Jen Zee and Darren Korb together are the Bob Dylan of gaming, able to create beautiful emotional experiences using the tools they have available.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 1:00 PM on March 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
People love to get outraged and say "FUCK EA!" but then a lot of people don't follow through with the "FUCK EA!" part of gaming and they just move on to the next outrage game.
Outrage youtubes and streams are a whole industry segment in their own right. Before Anthem, it was Fallout 76. After Anthem, it'll be whatever the next one is. Jim Sterling and a dozen "content creators" (that should be said the same way that Jim hits "triple A") who are basically aping him (althought frequently with much more nazi if you dig) will produce 3d4 videos about that game, and then there'll be one after it.
Both those examples have some pretty deep flaws, and some real headscratchers of odd design choices, on top of serious bugs that get fixed at various rates, and occasional howlingly dumb PR moves, of course. Games outrage content doesn't grow out of no good soil beneath it!
posted by Drastic at 1:01 PM on March 6, 2019
Outrage youtubes and streams are a whole industry segment in their own right. Before Anthem, it was Fallout 76. After Anthem, it'll be whatever the next one is. Jim Sterling and a dozen "content creators" (that should be said the same way that Jim hits "triple A") who are basically aping him (althought frequently with much more nazi if you dig) will produce 3d4 videos about that game, and then there'll be one after it.
Both those examples have some pretty deep flaws, and some real headscratchers of odd design choices, on top of serious bugs that get fixed at various rates, and occasional howlingly dumb PR moves, of course. Games outrage content doesn't grow out of no good soil beneath it!
posted by Drastic at 1:01 PM on March 6, 2019
Oh, and multiplayer is still a big "no" for me.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 1:04 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 1:04 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
Say what you will about Borderlands 2, I've been playing it regularly for nearly two years now and it still manages to surprise me.
posted by SPrintF at 1:41 PM on March 6, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 1:41 PM on March 6, 2019 [5 favorites]
Speed issues are then compounded by the online component, because ensuring that people playing the same thousands of miles apart experience the same world with low latency multiplies the number of shortcuts needed, and thus the potential for things to work other than intended. This also introduces a huge new problem: cheating. Doing the calculations server-side to keep people from using memory hacks puts the developers in an impossible bind. Most games that handle this well do so because the environment is relatively small and polished (often with case-specific fixes for edge conditions), but as noted above, this isn't a realistic expectation in something with a huge open-world feel.
I mean, this is sort of true, but let's not pretend this is groundbreaking territory. The existence of games like Destiny and The Division show that other companies have been through this same gauntlet before. Destiny's patrols allowed up to nine people in an instance. Anthem's limit is four. Fallout 76 allows over 30 people in any given instance, and has a much larger open world to boot—not just in geographical size but in the sheer number of world objects you can interact with and build. And while no one in their right mind would ever call Fallout 76 polished, stable or bug-free, it's also true that I've never seen network issues in Fallout 76 that come close to the terrible stuttering I saw in one mission during the ill-advised early access period a week before "real launch."
The other fundamental issue with Anthem is that once you fix all the technical issues, there are still a number of baffling or questionable design decisions that can't easily be walked back. Someone's already mentioned the "starter gun is best gun" phenomenon, where either due to a bug or just the game's built-in level scaling to ensure level 1 players can play with level 30 players and not feel like they're just wasting everyone's time, level 1 weapons can deal MORE DAMAGE than extremely rare level 30 weapons. But more fundamentally, there's an attempt to mix Bioware's signature dialogue-tree, narrative-heavy RPG style with a co-op online loot-based shooter that constantly fights itself.
People love the party members in Bioware games, right? Or at least, they love to hate them if they're particularly annoying. But Anthem has no party members, because your party is made up of actual people who might be your friends but are more likely just random strangers. The actual gameplay with strangers is surprisingly good; one thing Anthem has in common with Apex Legends is that the game works without a pre-built party, meaning solo players can have plenty of fun without having to make friends or *shudder* use voice chat. But it also means that there's a serious disconnect between the cast of characters back at Fort Tarsis and the disembodied voices you maybe hear during missions. You never get the level of interaction prior Bioware games gave you with its characters.
And even the voice lines they deliver during missions can be wiped out because of the multiplayer model. Take, for example, mission loading times, which were absolutely abysmal in the week before "day one," which really shouldn't be considered day one but that's a whole other kettle of fish. Different people will have different loading times. Network connectivity as well as system performance (for people on PC, but even consoles with different storage options attached) mean that you can't guarantee everyone will load into a mission at the same time. Anthem's solution? Let everyone start the mission when their loading has completed. Anyone who's late gets spawned at the last checkpoint, and has to catch up to where everyone else is in the mission. This means you could load a story mission and completely miss a quarter of the dialogue because your PC is slow or your network connection is shitty. Smaller aggressions abound as well. Did you want to stand around and listen to the dialogue in a mission during a quiet point? Well, you can't because as soon as the next mission waypoint appears, everyone leaps into the air and jets toward it full speed ahead. Anthem is set up in such a way that if you get too far from where the game thinks the mission area is, you get teleported to the mission area (which requires another semi-lengthy load time, though it's much better now). So basically, keep up or get kicked out of the game for a few seconds while it teleports you away. Incidentally, you don't get to hear any dialogue during the loading screen.
A lot of concessions made to the online nature of the game do violence to the traditional Bioware storytelling model, and Anthem doesn't really have any ideas on how to make up for it.
posted by chrominance at 1:48 PM on March 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
I mean, this is sort of true, but let's not pretend this is groundbreaking territory. The existence of games like Destiny and The Division show that other companies have been through this same gauntlet before. Destiny's patrols allowed up to nine people in an instance. Anthem's limit is four. Fallout 76 allows over 30 people in any given instance, and has a much larger open world to boot—not just in geographical size but in the sheer number of world objects you can interact with and build. And while no one in their right mind would ever call Fallout 76 polished, stable or bug-free, it's also true that I've never seen network issues in Fallout 76 that come close to the terrible stuttering I saw in one mission during the ill-advised early access period a week before "real launch."
The other fundamental issue with Anthem is that once you fix all the technical issues, there are still a number of baffling or questionable design decisions that can't easily be walked back. Someone's already mentioned the "starter gun is best gun" phenomenon, where either due to a bug or just the game's built-in level scaling to ensure level 1 players can play with level 30 players and not feel like they're just wasting everyone's time, level 1 weapons can deal MORE DAMAGE than extremely rare level 30 weapons. But more fundamentally, there's an attempt to mix Bioware's signature dialogue-tree, narrative-heavy RPG style with a co-op online loot-based shooter that constantly fights itself.
People love the party members in Bioware games, right? Or at least, they love to hate them if they're particularly annoying. But Anthem has no party members, because your party is made up of actual people who might be your friends but are more likely just random strangers. The actual gameplay with strangers is surprisingly good; one thing Anthem has in common with Apex Legends is that the game works without a pre-built party, meaning solo players can have plenty of fun without having to make friends or *shudder* use voice chat. But it also means that there's a serious disconnect between the cast of characters back at Fort Tarsis and the disembodied voices you maybe hear during missions. You never get the level of interaction prior Bioware games gave you with its characters.
And even the voice lines they deliver during missions can be wiped out because of the multiplayer model. Take, for example, mission loading times, which were absolutely abysmal in the week before "day one," which really shouldn't be considered day one but that's a whole other kettle of fish. Different people will have different loading times. Network connectivity as well as system performance (for people on PC, but even consoles with different storage options attached) mean that you can't guarantee everyone will load into a mission at the same time. Anthem's solution? Let everyone start the mission when their loading has completed. Anyone who's late gets spawned at the last checkpoint, and has to catch up to where everyone else is in the mission. This means you could load a story mission and completely miss a quarter of the dialogue because your PC is slow or your network connection is shitty. Smaller aggressions abound as well. Did you want to stand around and listen to the dialogue in a mission during a quiet point? Well, you can't because as soon as the next mission waypoint appears, everyone leaps into the air and jets toward it full speed ahead. Anthem is set up in such a way that if you get too far from where the game thinks the mission area is, you get teleported to the mission area (which requires another semi-lengthy load time, though it's much better now). So basically, keep up or get kicked out of the game for a few seconds while it teleports you away. Incidentally, you don't get to hear any dialogue during the loading screen.
A lot of concessions made to the online nature of the game do violence to the traditional Bioware storytelling model, and Anthem doesn't really have any ideas on how to make up for it.
posted by chrominance at 1:48 PM on March 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
why do gamers keep doing this to themselves?
Because Bioware made some really amazing games a long time ago and people, desperate for more of the same, don't realize that the company that owns the IP is not the author of those games.
posted by suetanvil at 2:10 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
Because Bioware made some really amazing games a long time ago and people, desperate for more of the same, don't realize that the company that owns the IP is not the author of those games.
posted by suetanvil at 2:10 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think beyond just Bioware nostalgia there's long been a thing within gaming of wanting to be among the first or earliest to complete a game. Some of that is getting the achievement first or discovering the easter eggs first. And some of that involves wanting to complete the game without being spoiled or depending on other people's metagames.
And historically AAA publishing started as the result of the Great Atari Crash where the bubble for game production resulted in tons of unplayable games that were shipping, more games than most storefronts could stock. Nintendo stepped in and imposed standards for publishing onto Nintendo-controlled platforms. AAA publishing had another crash a few years back that wiped out a whole mess of mid-range studios and cut a large numbers of long-term jobs for the groups that did survive. The labor problems of the industry were not good before, and they're even worse now. And there's tensions between designers who want to innovate and the marketing and finance people who want to pitch into well-established market niches.
But quite obviously the quality assurance process for AAA games is failing given that we get one of these stories about every year or even every quarter now.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 2:29 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
And historically AAA publishing started as the result of the Great Atari Crash where the bubble for game production resulted in tons of unplayable games that were shipping, more games than most storefronts could stock. Nintendo stepped in and imposed standards for publishing onto Nintendo-controlled platforms. AAA publishing had another crash a few years back that wiped out a whole mess of mid-range studios and cut a large numbers of long-term jobs for the groups that did survive. The labor problems of the industry were not good before, and they're even worse now. And there's tensions between designers who want to innovate and the marketing and finance people who want to pitch into well-established market niches.
But quite obviously the quality assurance process for AAA games is failing given that we get one of these stories about every year or even every quarter now.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 2:29 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
But if you want it in a game that's also got looter/team shooter/team PvE elements, is there any chance Division 2 will have a story mode that fills that hole, or is it going to descend into PvP madness like Division 1 did?
I really hope so, Division 2 is the first game I've been genuinely looking forward to in a long long time (and this is only after coming to the original Division super late, as in, within the past month or so). It's also the only game I have ever, ever pre-ordered, so I can get it a couple of days earlier than all you other scrubs.
I played the open beta over the weekend and it was a blast, looks gorgeous, the world is more alive and interesting and rewarding, and the gameplay more solid and satisfying. Apart from some annoying sound issues I didn't notice too many bugs, and it runs smooth as silk on my PS4 Pro.
Story-wise I'm not expecting much, but as a lite RPG you can kind of create your own story, because the core conceit is pretty solid. End game looks fabulous as well, and I like Massive's purported philosophy of "end game first", since that's where the majority of players are going to be spending the majority of their time.
I played the Anthem beta and it was terrible from top to bottom.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:29 PM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
I really hope so, Division 2 is the first game I've been genuinely looking forward to in a long long time (and this is only after coming to the original Division super late, as in, within the past month or so). It's also the only game I have ever, ever pre-ordered, so I can get it a couple of days earlier than all you other scrubs.
I played the open beta over the weekend and it was a blast, looks gorgeous, the world is more alive and interesting and rewarding, and the gameplay more solid and satisfying. Apart from some annoying sound issues I didn't notice too many bugs, and it runs smooth as silk on my PS4 Pro.
Story-wise I'm not expecting much, but as a lite RPG you can kind of create your own story, because the core conceit is pretty solid. End game looks fabulous as well, and I like Massive's purported philosophy of "end game first", since that's where the majority of players are going to be spending the majority of their time.
I played the Anthem beta and it was terrible from top to bottom.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:29 PM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'll admit that one reason why I've been following Anthem's troubles is that I expected to feel some schadenfreude at the game's failure, for its role in draining the talent pool that otherwise might have made Mass Effect: Andromeda a better game. (For some detailing of this, go to Jason Schreier's Kotaku article on MEA's cursed development and search for "Dylan".) Despite MEA's many problems, I still enjoyed the game, and thought that it might be the beginning of a series of better games, and was severely disappointed when EA announced the cancellation of any further patches, DLC, or sequels, at least for the single-player game. (I've never really cared for the multiplayer game.) Although at first I was mad at the bringers of bad tidings for giving the news that the five-year wait between Mass Effect games possibly hadn't been worth it (and I still think that John Walker's RPS review was crap), I switched my ire to EA and Bioware for game trend-hopping and chasing after microtransactions and loot box gambling instead of sticking to what they were good at.
But I really don't feel schadenfreude at this, even though it belly-flopped way worse than I thought it would; at most, maybe moderately vindicated. I mean, Bioware could have possibly gone back to continuing ME and the Dragon Age games, but now? MEA's failure brought about the breakup of the Bioware branch that produced it, and I don't expect this to bring a return to what Bioware does best, unless someone at EA grasps that asking a studio that's demonstrated talent at doing a particular type of game to do something completely different because that's what they heard that the kids were into is not a recipe for success, and lets them go back to ME and DA. I wouldn't put my money on that. Hell, if Anthem had been that good, I might have even given it a try, when it came down in price, anyway. (I just got Assassin's Creed: Odyssey for the PS4, even though AC isn't really my thing, in part because what I'd seen of the female PC reminded me a lot of Shepard in a toga. And, yes, I know that it's not really a toga, there's some Greek name for it, classics majors.) Or, if EA folds Bioware completely, maybe someone else will pick up the IP and revive it... eh. Who knows.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:43 PM on March 6, 2019 [7 favorites]
But I really don't feel schadenfreude at this, even though it belly-flopped way worse than I thought it would; at most, maybe moderately vindicated. I mean, Bioware could have possibly gone back to continuing ME and the Dragon Age games, but now? MEA's failure brought about the breakup of the Bioware branch that produced it, and I don't expect this to bring a return to what Bioware does best, unless someone at EA grasps that asking a studio that's demonstrated talent at doing a particular type of game to do something completely different because that's what they heard that the kids were into is not a recipe for success, and lets them go back to ME and DA. I wouldn't put my money on that. Hell, if Anthem had been that good, I might have even given it a try, when it came down in price, anyway. (I just got Assassin's Creed: Odyssey for the PS4, even though AC isn't really my thing, in part because what I'd seen of the female PC reminded me a lot of Shepard in a toga. And, yes, I know that it's not really a toga, there's some Greek name for it, classics majors.) Or, if EA folds Bioware completely, maybe someone else will pick up the IP and revive it... eh. Who knows.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:43 PM on March 6, 2019 [7 favorites]
I've been loving anthem. There's every kind of human in it and most kinds of representation. (including the 'grizzled middle-aged woman' archetype from a few threads up) There's fun places to explore. There's all sorts of nice stories. It runs smoothly for me, but i *just* updated my gaming computer, so it's not fair to say this should be everyone's experience. It doesn't indirectly beg me for money as much as, say, Apex or Fortnite. And in terms of innovation, I *really* don't understand how people are saying Apex is leading the way here. Apex is titanfall and fortnite smoochin' and grabbing the wallets as they pass by.
EA didn't pay me to say this. I just wanna stand up and say I enjoy anthem, I bought it, I'm also here. Thanks.
posted by gorestainedrunes at 2:47 PM on March 6, 2019
EA didn't pay me to say this. I just wanna stand up and say I enjoy anthem, I bought it, I'm also here. Thanks.
posted by gorestainedrunes at 2:47 PM on March 6, 2019
I'm not usually one to blame the victims, but why do gamers keep doing this to themselves? The trend is always high expectations, massive amounts of preorders for the game, game is released, is completely disappointing, has expensive DLC, everyone hates it, rinse, repeat.
Because I'm willing to try new things, maybe? Because I don't feel like listening to everybody's hate machine bullshit before something has even come out?
Anthem might not be my fave and I would definitely prefer BioWare go back to SFF Dating Sims with stellar writing, but it's absolutely not garbage and it's worth trying out. There are things I don't like about it (like playing with randos online, no matter how much the game tells me I totally should). But there are things I do like about it, too. Lots of things. And that BioWare dialogue and characterization is there. It's in shorter bursts, doesn't go as far as a Mass Effect or Dragon Age, but it's there.
Also, there are structural reasons DLCs happen. Development takes time and money. And as a consumer, if I like a game, I'm super glad to get more content later. I don't understand why people hate this so much except for the general bullshit entitlement complex of gamer culture.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:53 PM on March 6, 2019
Because I'm willing to try new things, maybe? Because I don't feel like listening to everybody's hate machine bullshit before something has even come out?
Anthem might not be my fave and I would definitely prefer BioWare go back to SFF Dating Sims with stellar writing, but it's absolutely not garbage and it's worth trying out. There are things I don't like about it (like playing with randos online, no matter how much the game tells me I totally should). But there are things I do like about it, too. Lots of things. And that BioWare dialogue and characterization is there. It's in shorter bursts, doesn't go as far as a Mass Effect or Dragon Age, but it's there.
Also, there are structural reasons DLCs happen. Development takes time and money. And as a consumer, if I like a game, I'm super glad to get more content later. I don't understand why people hate this so much except for the general bullshit entitlement complex of gamer culture.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:53 PM on March 6, 2019
Someday soon a game design company is going to realize that there’s an enormous market for multiplayer collaborative games for us old farts who have been playing video games since Pong was new and who have no desire to play twitch-based shooters.
Give me a persistent world I can drop into and drop out of. Give me an easy way to group with my friends. Give me exploration and crafting and PvE. Let my friend be a warrior and let me run an inn. Let me be the forward scout and let my friend design siege engines. Give us a million roles to play in a complex environment we can shape through our action and inaction.
And let me never ever ever see a fucking lootbox again.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:25 PM on March 6, 2019 [6 favorites]
Give me a persistent world I can drop into and drop out of. Give me an easy way to group with my friends. Give me exploration and crafting and PvE. Let my friend be a warrior and let me run an inn. Let me be the forward scout and let my friend design siege engines. Give us a million roles to play in a complex environment we can shape through our action and inaction.
And let me never ever ever see a fucking lootbox again.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:25 PM on March 6, 2019 [6 favorites]
A far more hilarious issue emerged this morning. Players discovered that the difficulty of enemies is based on the gun you use and not your gear/player level. This means that a Level 1 rifle is actually more powerful than a Level 45 rifle. Reddit users are digging into the numbers over here.
posted by GilloD at 4:28 PM on March 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by GilloD at 4:28 PM on March 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
(comment posted in wrong thread sorry)
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 4:34 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 4:34 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
Give me a persistent world I can drop into and drop out of. Give me an easy way to group with my friends. Give me exploration and crafting and PvE.
Ark is scratching that itch for me right now. There's a lot that's wrong with the public multiplayer ecosystem (but that's never been my scene anyway so meh) and the game's default settings assume MMO level obsession, but it's easily tweaked out of the box for single player or to spin up small, invite- only servers.
This isn't to say it's a bug-free, polished experience either, but it's enjoyable enough to suffer through all that so far. (To suffer through, like, Troika values of busted, no. But only Troika's games were that good, TOEE excepted.)
posted by BS Artisan at 4:38 PM on March 6, 2019
Ark is scratching that itch for me right now. There's a lot that's wrong with the public multiplayer ecosystem (but that's never been my scene anyway so meh) and the game's default settings assume MMO level obsession, but it's easily tweaked out of the box for single player or to spin up small, invite- only servers.
This isn't to say it's a bug-free, polished experience either, but it's enjoyable enough to suffer through all that so far. (To suffer through, like, Troika values of busted, no. But only Troika's games were that good, TOEE excepted.)
posted by BS Artisan at 4:38 PM on March 6, 2019
Maybe I'm the outlier here but Warframe is one of my most hated games. Overly complex, grindy and repetitive with almost no story. Bland visuals. Ugh. I always feel like the Warframe love comes mostly from people that have been playing it so long that calling it what it is would be very painful. There's a reason they have to keep redesigning the new player experience.
Destiny 2 was okay but lost me at endgame because it was too shallow and as a result became a grind.
I liked The Division a lot but moved on when my friends did. Now we're all looking forward to The Division 2. I played the "beta" (aka demo) and it's gotten me even more excited for launch.
Anthem at least feels good at its core. Playability is pretty spot on. Performance wise, even on my almost 10 year old mobo/cpu, it runs pretty well while looking great. I've only played a bit of it so far as I'm playing with friends and schedules are hard but I like it a lot more than Warframe. I've also experience zero bugs so far. Yes, zero. Biggest dislike so far is the frequent load screens.
I'd like to echo the point made above, the outrage content is definitely a thing at play here. By no means is Anthem the worst game to come out in the last 6 months but you sure would think so. Everyone's got to get them clicks and views though.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 4:57 PM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
Destiny 2 was okay but lost me at endgame because it was too shallow and as a result became a grind.
I liked The Division a lot but moved on when my friends did. Now we're all looking forward to The Division 2. I played the "beta" (aka demo) and it's gotten me even more excited for launch.
Anthem at least feels good at its core. Playability is pretty spot on. Performance wise, even on my almost 10 year old mobo/cpu, it runs pretty well while looking great. I've only played a bit of it so far as I'm playing with friends and schedules are hard but I like it a lot more than Warframe. I've also experience zero bugs so far. Yes, zero. Biggest dislike so far is the frequent load screens.
I'd like to echo the point made above, the outrage content is definitely a thing at play here. By no means is Anthem the worst game to come out in the last 6 months but you sure would think so. Everyone's got to get them clicks and views though.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 4:57 PM on March 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
So Anthem's developers have responsibility here, of course, but so does Sony. What is wrong with their operating system that a user process can not only hard-crash the whole system, but also apparently corrupt it so it can't boot again? That's pretty awful. Also part of Sony and Microsoft's value proposition is they test the shit out of console games so they don't crash. This doesn't always work (I've had a few PS4 hard crashes) but I wonder if EA/Bioware twisted someone's arm at Sony to let them ship known-buggy code.
posted by Nelson at 5:14 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 5:14 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
I wonder if EA/Bioware twisted someone's arm at Sony to let them ship known-buggy code.
No. Generally speaking you get to waive three or so of the 150~250 TCRs (Technical Certification Requirements) required to pass Cert., but fundamental stability is never an option. Normally it wouldn't surprise me if some people in Sony's Cert group lost their jobs over this what with the reports of bricking, but given how the blame has fallen squarely on EA's shoulders in the public eye there's good odds it'll just be a stern upbraiding and possibly some additional guidelines re: post-launch patch cert process.
posted by Ryvar at 5:24 PM on March 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
No. Generally speaking you get to waive three or so of the 150~250 TCRs (Technical Certification Requirements) required to pass Cert., but fundamental stability is never an option. Normally it wouldn't surprise me if some people in Sony's Cert group lost their jobs over this what with the reports of bricking, but given how the blame has fallen squarely on EA's shoulders in the public eye there's good odds it'll just be a stern upbraiding and possibly some additional guidelines re: post-launch patch cert process.
posted by Ryvar at 5:24 PM on March 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
When Bioware ships a Mass Effect or a Dragon Age with major bugs, I can simply wait a couple of months until they're all patched, and still enjoy the game.
I told myself I wouldn't buy another game until I finished what I had. That was a while ago. I seriously considered lifting my "embargo" a month ago to get some DLC for the Borderlands Pre-sequel but thought "Wait until you are done". That's about $2 back in my pocket.
posted by srboisvert at 5:38 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
I told myself I wouldn't buy another game until I finished what I had. That was a while ago. I seriously considered lifting my "embargo" a month ago to get some DLC for the Borderlands Pre-sequel but thought "Wait until you are done". That's about $2 back in my pocket.
posted by srboisvert at 5:38 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
I've been hearing good things about the Borderlands bundle for years now. Is it actually more than a shoot, loot & grind thing? I mean, some of that's okay, but I need variety and/or a good story and/or good NPCs.
(Currently working on Dishonoured 2 Emily/hard/ghost/no-kill. God this game is glitchy.)
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:04 PM on March 6, 2019
(Currently working on Dishonoured 2 Emily/hard/ghost/no-kill. God this game is glitchy.)
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:04 PM on March 6, 2019
seanmpuckett, the Borderlands games are excellent, have fun stories and decent writing, and memorable characters and environments. Plus the bundle is cheap as heck. If you're a fan of FPSes, you'll get plenty of hours out of them.
For a Dishonoured fan though I'd recommend Prey over Borderlands, if you haven't already played it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:12 PM on March 6, 2019 [6 favorites]
For a Dishonoured fan though I'd recommend Prey over Borderlands, if you haven't already played it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:12 PM on March 6, 2019 [6 favorites]
Destiny 2 was okay but lost me at endgame because it was too shallow and as a result became a grind.
JakeEXTREME
Just curious, what about the endgame did you not like? Putting it out there that as a person who has been raiding since WoW 2005, the endgame raids in Destiny 2 are some of the best and most fun encounters I've ever played. Leviathan was a blast, and so was the Raid Lair. In fact, as a testament to how deep, complex and fun it was, our group kept playing it even though there was no particular loot we wanted from them - it was just fun to go in there and blast the boss even in the absence of loot. Never mind fighting the encounters, even the whole experience of getting lost in the Leviathan map itself was brilliant, such a difference from the "follow the marker to the objective" dumbed down games we get nowadays.
In particular we loved the Argos raid boss - it challenges and tests your team on so many different levels - pure mechanical combat skills fighting very difficult waves of adds, having very clear communication over what element crystals who needs to "cook" in what order, role swapping, sheer boss DPS, platforming skills to jump between the forges and during the tower climbing wipe phase, and to top it off, the encounter is random and varied enough that there are multiple viable strategies for your team to pursue, so choosing a strategy makes it feel like you "won" it your way, rather than one dimensional encounters where there is clearly one "optimal" strategy for winning and it's all about execution.
If you want to complain about loot... ehh yeah there wasn't anything great to get from those raids. Sins of the Past rocket launcher was the only great item there. But maybe that's a feature rather than a bug - why lock the most powerful loot behind the hardest content? The only reason to do that is to lock players into a loot-grind cycle. But what if we just focused on making the end game encounters fun to play and players can just enjoy them without the pressure / frustration of getting the right loot to drop? I think that's what Destiny 2 achieved. I liked the lack of grinding end game gear, which is why I'm also surprised you characterized it as grindy. Destiny 2 had very little loot worth grinding for because all the damage is normalized anyway, so the upgrades were mainly quality of life / cosmetic in nature!
Anyway, Anthem... I'm 2/3 through the story and it already feels far far worse than Destiny 2 did. But I'll reserve my final judgement until I get to end game...
posted by xdvesper at 6:57 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
JakeEXTREME
Just curious, what about the endgame did you not like? Putting it out there that as a person who has been raiding since WoW 2005, the endgame raids in Destiny 2 are some of the best and most fun encounters I've ever played. Leviathan was a blast, and so was the Raid Lair. In fact, as a testament to how deep, complex and fun it was, our group kept playing it even though there was no particular loot we wanted from them - it was just fun to go in there and blast the boss even in the absence of loot. Never mind fighting the encounters, even the whole experience of getting lost in the Leviathan map itself was brilliant, such a difference from the "follow the marker to the objective" dumbed down games we get nowadays.
In particular we loved the Argos raid boss - it challenges and tests your team on so many different levels - pure mechanical combat skills fighting very difficult waves of adds, having very clear communication over what element crystals who needs to "cook" in what order, role swapping, sheer boss DPS, platforming skills to jump between the forges and during the tower climbing wipe phase, and to top it off, the encounter is random and varied enough that there are multiple viable strategies for your team to pursue, so choosing a strategy makes it feel like you "won" it your way, rather than one dimensional encounters where there is clearly one "optimal" strategy for winning and it's all about execution.
If you want to complain about loot... ehh yeah there wasn't anything great to get from those raids. Sins of the Past rocket launcher was the only great item there. But maybe that's a feature rather than a bug - why lock the most powerful loot behind the hardest content? The only reason to do that is to lock players into a loot-grind cycle. But what if we just focused on making the end game encounters fun to play and players can just enjoy them without the pressure / frustration of getting the right loot to drop? I think that's what Destiny 2 achieved. I liked the lack of grinding end game gear, which is why I'm also surprised you characterized it as grindy. Destiny 2 had very little loot worth grinding for because all the damage is normalized anyway, so the upgrades were mainly quality of life / cosmetic in nature!
Anyway, Anthem... I'm 2/3 through the story and it already feels far far worse than Destiny 2 did. But I'll reserve my final judgement until I get to end game...
posted by xdvesper at 6:57 PM on March 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
And I again have to criticize Anthem / praise Destiny 2's handling of loot... all the loot in Destiny was damage normalized, which meant that if you were comparing the choice of weapons when fighting against a DPS check boss - the reality was that virtually any weapon within the right subclass you chose was probably fine.
You got excited about Destiny 2 weapons because of their quality of life improvements and how cool they were and looked, and how they fitted you as a player. I loved the part where some players would love some specific gun, while others would hate it. You all had the same DPS, but this gun was yours and yours alone to love. The guns would differ on so many deeply personal axes that were surprisingly important to making you love it - ADS handling speed, zoom magnification, stability, recoil magnitude, recoil pattern, damage falloff, aim assistance - nothing to do with damage. Destiny 2 was all about your love affair with the weapon you picked, while in other games you just had to use the highest damage weapon because it was most efficient. Anthem is shaping up to be an example of the latter, with all the crazy random rolls of stats I'm seeing on the weapons and armor, and the endless chase for a "god roll" gun...
posted by xdvesper at 8:35 PM on March 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
You got excited about Destiny 2 weapons because of their quality of life improvements and how cool they were and looked, and how they fitted you as a player. I loved the part where some players would love some specific gun, while others would hate it. You all had the same DPS, but this gun was yours and yours alone to love. The guns would differ on so many deeply personal axes that were surprisingly important to making you love it - ADS handling speed, zoom magnification, stability, recoil magnitude, recoil pattern, damage falloff, aim assistance - nothing to do with damage. Destiny 2 was all about your love affair with the weapon you picked, while in other games you just had to use the highest damage weapon because it was most efficient. Anthem is shaping up to be an example of the latter, with all the crazy random rolls of stats I'm seeing on the weapons and armor, and the endless chase for a "god roll" gun...
posted by xdvesper at 8:35 PM on March 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
I have been playing Anthem. We started playing it because my husband made friends with a couple that had just started it. I hadn't followed any news or anything about it before hand. I think this saved me from having disappointed expectations.
People expected it to be in some ways a bioware RPG. Bioware themselves are partially responsible for this expectation. It is very much not a bioware RPG.
As soon as I started playing it I said "oh, this is like a fantasy sci-fi 3d diablo 3." The flying robots are great. I almost exclusively play the interceptor, the zoomiest of the lot. Husband mostly plays ranger. If we're both in the house together we check on interest for anthem by asking the other "hey do you want to play robots?"
If yes, go do some co-op PvE robots. I don't really like pvp so that suits me pretty well. The setting and the movement are actually fun, unlike something like division 2 (I am baffled that the div 2 trailer actually makes anyone want to play it, but different strokes). Destiny was always primarily consoles and I'm bad enough at videogame shooting with a mouse, no need to torture myself with a controller.
If it had little kitty companions you could dress up I would like it better than monster hunter world. As it is it supports playing the way I like to better than MHW does. It could for sure learn some lessons from MHW tho.
I think the negative reviews are predicated in large part on being disappointed that it isn't the game bioware said it would be. Which is fair, it's not. On the other hand what bioware promised is not especially possible and the robots game that they actually produced is a good way to have chill fun with friends. It has bugs but time will iron those out.
posted by firebrick at 10:24 PM on March 6, 2019
People expected it to be in some ways a bioware RPG. Bioware themselves are partially responsible for this expectation. It is very much not a bioware RPG.
As soon as I started playing it I said "oh, this is like a fantasy sci-fi 3d diablo 3." The flying robots are great. I almost exclusively play the interceptor, the zoomiest of the lot. Husband mostly plays ranger. If we're both in the house together we check on interest for anthem by asking the other "hey do you want to play robots?"
If yes, go do some co-op PvE robots. I don't really like pvp so that suits me pretty well. The setting and the movement are actually fun, unlike something like division 2 (I am baffled that the div 2 trailer actually makes anyone want to play it, but different strokes). Destiny was always primarily consoles and I'm bad enough at videogame shooting with a mouse, no need to torture myself with a controller.
If it had little kitty companions you could dress up I would like it better than monster hunter world. As it is it supports playing the way I like to better than MHW does. It could for sure learn some lessons from MHW tho.
I think the negative reviews are predicated in large part on being disappointed that it isn't the game bioware said it would be. Which is fair, it's not. On the other hand what bioware promised is not especially possible and the robots game that they actually produced is a good way to have chill fun with friends. It has bugs but time will iron those out.
posted by firebrick at 10:24 PM on March 6, 2019
I'm not usually one to blame the victims, but why do gamers keep doing this to themselves? The trend is always high expectations, massive amounts of preorders for the game, game is released, is completely disappointing, has expensive DLC, everyone hates it, rinse, repeat.
Red Dead II was good. Spider-Man was good. Those both had huge pre-orders.
(And seconding Dahlia, Prey is delightful.)
posted by rokusan at 11:01 PM on March 6, 2019
Red Dead II was good. Spider-Man was good. Those both had huge pre-orders.
(And seconding Dahlia, Prey is delightful.)
posted by rokusan at 11:01 PM on March 6, 2019
Give me a persistent world I can drop into and drop out of. Give me an easy way to group with my friends. Give me exploration and crafting and PvE. Let my friend be a warrior and let me run an inn. Let me be the forward scout and let my friend design siege engines. Give us a million roles to play in a complex environment we can shape through our action and inaction.
Holy crap, BOP, I would play the hell out of that game and I would drink at your inn every night.
posted by The Bellman at 5:42 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Holy crap, BOP, I would play the hell out of that game and I would drink at your inn every night.
posted by The Bellman at 5:42 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Aye yo, Fortnite isn't about the game, its about wandering around a cartoon world with your pals.
I do squads with my nephews and their friends sometimes. Actually winning is only marginally part of it.
posted by Damienmce at 7:31 AM on March 7, 2019
I do squads with my nephews and their friends sometimes. Actually winning is only marginally part of it.
posted by Damienmce at 7:31 AM on March 7, 2019
For a Dishonoured fan though I'd recommend Prey over Borderlands, if you haven't already played it.
Also, Deux Ex: Human Revolution & Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. Both are worth your time if you're wanting an immersive sim. And both do not have lootbox cash-grab microtransactions.
posted by Fizz at 7:35 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Also, Deux Ex: Human Revolution & Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. Both are worth your time if you're wanting an immersive sim. And both do not have lootbox cash-grab microtransactions.
posted by Fizz at 7:35 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I've been hearing good things about the Borderlands bundle for years now. Is it actually more than a shoot, loot & grind thing? I mean, some of that's okay, but I need variety and/or a good story and/or good NPCs.
I enjoy it. It has a story but is a bit on the snarkasm/trope side which can get annoying. If you wait for a steam sale you can get the entire borderlands bundle - 3 games and all the DLC for about @20 which is a lot of play.
posted by srboisvert at 7:58 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I enjoy it. It has a story but is a bit on the snarkasm/trope side which can get annoying. If you wait for a steam sale you can get the entire borderlands bundle - 3 games and all the DLC for about @20 which is a lot of play.
posted by srboisvert at 7:58 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Double check with MeFightClub, too. The games have been in enough bundles that someone is bound to have an extra key or two laying around. I don't think I do for those games, but it's not out of the question.
posted by ODiV at 8:16 AM on March 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by ODiV at 8:16 AM on March 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
I'm not opposed to the idea of Anthem, as long as I don't have to play with other people? Can I have AI buddies to play with, like one can do in Overwatch? That's not clear to me at this point.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:47 AM on March 7, 2019
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:47 AM on March 7, 2019
[The Borderlands series] has a story but is a bit on the snarkasm/trope side which can get annoying.
My own sense is that Borderlands didn't really become Borderlands until the DLCs for the original started rolling in. There's not much story in the original Borderlands -- not none, but there's just little bits in audio recordings here and there and in the text backgrounds for missions. You're just being sent around to kill everyone by Angel b/c that's what you do, until suddenly [terrible ending].
The wacky stories and deeper-but-still-silly characterizations only started with the Dr. Ned dlc and didn't hit full stride until the General Knoxx one.
All of which is to say that if you start Borderlands and are all "What gives? Where's this great story I was promised?", you haven't gone bonkers nor are you the only sane one in a crazy world. By the time you get to "Puppies for FREE" in Borderlands 1 dlc4, you'll probably get it. By the time you get to "I KNOW! I know..." at the end of Dragon Keep, it'll mean something. Don't forget to meet Face McShooty along the way.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:08 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
My own sense is that Borderlands didn't really become Borderlands until the DLCs for the original started rolling in. There's not much story in the original Borderlands -- not none, but there's just little bits in audio recordings here and there and in the text backgrounds for missions. You're just being sent around to kill everyone by Angel b/c that's what you do, until suddenly [terrible ending].
The wacky stories and deeper-but-still-silly characterizations only started with the Dr. Ned dlc and didn't hit full stride until the General Knoxx one.
All of which is to say that if you start Borderlands and are all "What gives? Where's this great story I was promised?", you haven't gone bonkers nor are you the only sane one in a crazy world. By the time you get to "Puppies for FREE" in Borderlands 1 dlc4, you'll probably get it. By the time you get to "I KNOW! I know..." at the end of Dragon Keep, it'll mean something. Don't forget to meet Face McShooty along the way.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:08 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm not opposed to the idea of Anthem, as long as I don't have to play with other people? Can I have AI buddies to play with, like one can do in Overwatch? That's not clear to me at this point.
You can elect to run the missions as private, solo sessions. In theory, the enemies scale (numbers, damage, etc) based on squad size, but practice is its own beast. There are no bots options as the game stands now.
Also, the "freeplay" mode is automatically public-matchmaked, but in practice there all other people are scattered across the entire map--I suspect that freeplay enemy scaling is assuming the squad sticks together, which is one of the silly design choices if so, because randoms aren't going to when missions don't constrain them to.
posted by Drastic at 9:30 AM on March 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
You can elect to run the missions as private, solo sessions. In theory, the enemies scale (numbers, damage, etc) based on squad size, but practice is its own beast. There are no bots options as the game stands now.
Also, the "freeplay" mode is automatically public-matchmaked, but in practice there all other people are scattered across the entire map--I suspect that freeplay enemy scaling is assuming the squad sticks together, which is one of the silly design choices if so, because randoms aren't going to when missions don't constrain them to.
posted by Drastic at 9:30 AM on March 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
What is it with this category of games that make them suck so much? Destiny had the same issues. There's nothing groundbreaking or difficult about these games that warrants this level of brokenness and bugs. I don't get it.
Destiny and the Division actually worked at release. Destiny and its sequel are a marvel of seamless multiplayer matchmaking, The Division even more so with its single loading screen (seriously, you only see a loading screen when you boot the game or fast travel, its a triumph of modern networking and programming) . Those games were never as fundamentally as broken at launch as Anthem is now. One could play these games, the issues arose with the endgame.
Anthem is flat out broken, and while the combat mechanics are sort-of-fun, there's so many things that just don't work. The narrative space locked away from gameplay, constantly needing to matchmake for content (you can play The Division and Destiny solo, other players just occupy the space and communication is opt-in), inability to swap equipment on the fly, boring guns and the constant. loading. screens. That's before we get to the networking issues, crashes and console corruption. Then we get to the endgame...
The endgame issue is a problem with these looter shooters because that is where the players will spend the majority of their time. Destiny solved this problem by eventually having more content, same with The Division. The Division 2 seems to be launching with a fairly substantial endgame, so someone is at least taking notes if Bioware isn't. I have no idea what the endgame is like for Anthem but from what I read its more sparse than Destiny 2's was and man Destiny 2's end game was sparse.
EDIT: For the record I played and love Destiny and The Division, so this genre is in my wheelhouse and I was fortunate enough to get Anthem for free.
posted by Snuffman at 9:31 AM on March 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
Destiny and the Division actually worked at release. Destiny and its sequel are a marvel of seamless multiplayer matchmaking, The Division even more so with its single loading screen (seriously, you only see a loading screen when you boot the game or fast travel, its a triumph of modern networking and programming) . Those games were never as fundamentally as broken at launch as Anthem is now. One could play these games, the issues arose with the endgame.
Anthem is flat out broken, and while the combat mechanics are sort-of-fun, there's so many things that just don't work. The narrative space locked away from gameplay, constantly needing to matchmake for content (you can play The Division and Destiny solo, other players just occupy the space and communication is opt-in), inability to swap equipment on the fly, boring guns and the constant. loading. screens. That's before we get to the networking issues, crashes and console corruption. Then we get to the endgame...
The endgame issue is a problem with these looter shooters because that is where the players will spend the majority of their time. Destiny solved this problem by eventually having more content, same with The Division. The Division 2 seems to be launching with a fairly substantial endgame, so someone is at least taking notes if Bioware isn't. I have no idea what the endgame is like for Anthem but from what I read its more sparse than Destiny 2's was and man Destiny 2's end game was sparse.
EDIT: For the record I played and love Destiny and The Division, so this genre is in my wheelhouse and I was fortunate enough to get Anthem for free.
posted by Snuffman at 9:31 AM on March 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
My understanding is that the current Anthem endgame activity is the "world events". Which is a good idea because they rotate regularly, but the Ash Titans event that was available at launch seemed pretty boring in the videos I saw.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:44 AM on March 7, 2019
posted by tobascodagama at 9:44 AM on March 7, 2019
“Anthem Final Review” [6/10]—Victor Lucas, The Electric Playground, 07 March 2019
posted by ob1quixote at 10:18 AM on March 7, 2019
posted by ob1quixote at 10:18 AM on March 7, 2019
I loved the part where some players would love some specific gun, while others would hate it.
Oh, Sweet Business. My one true love.
Who wants to drink from the fire hose?
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 6:41 PM on March 7, 2019
Oh, Sweet Business. My one true love.
Who wants to drink from the fire hose?
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 6:41 PM on March 7, 2019
Yes, I know about Pillars of Eternity, it's the game I desperately want to love but somehow can't.
You want the sequel that has a great world to explore, interesting side quests and good voice acting yet sold rather badly. Best rpg since The Witcher 3 in my book.
posted by ersatz at 1:15 AM on March 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
You want the sequel that has a great world to explore, interesting side quests and good voice acting yet sold rather badly. Best rpg since The Witcher 3 in my book.
posted by ersatz at 1:15 AM on March 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
EA really is a trash company. There's not anything they can't infect and ruin.
I've thought this about them since having to break their floppy disk copy protection just to make their expensive games boot reliably on my Apple II+ over thirty years ago.
Recently little ms. flabdablet evinced a desire to own Sims 4. Thought I'd do the right thing and buy her the DVD from my local games shop. What a time-sucking nightmare going that route turned out to be; the DVD doesn't actually install anything despite having over 5GB of content, it just invokes a download from EA's molasses-slow servers that took literally a day and a half to complete and then failed because this show-stopper issue from 2014 still has no definitive fix. Persisted to the extent of doing the whole painful dance twice with variations before giving up on it.
So fuck that noise. Fortunately there exist reliable pirates whose reputations for reliability and non-intrusiveness deservedly exceed EA's and whose distribution mechanism is vastly superior, and thanks to their great work she's now able to play God to her heart's content on as many of her devices as she damn well pleases.
EA will never get another cent from me.
posted by flabdablet at 9:10 AM on April 3, 2019
I've thought this about them since having to break their floppy disk copy protection just to make their expensive games boot reliably on my Apple II+ over thirty years ago.
Recently little ms. flabdablet evinced a desire to own Sims 4. Thought I'd do the right thing and buy her the DVD from my local games shop. What a time-sucking nightmare going that route turned out to be; the DVD doesn't actually install anything despite having over 5GB of content, it just invokes a download from EA's molasses-slow servers that took literally a day and a half to complete and then failed because this show-stopper issue from 2014 still has no definitive fix. Persisted to the extent of doing the whole painful dance twice with variations before giving up on it.
So fuck that noise. Fortunately there exist reliable pirates whose reputations for reliability and non-intrusiveness deservedly exceed EA's and whose distribution mechanism is vastly superior, and thanks to their great work she's now able to play God to her heart's content on as many of her devices as she damn well pleases.
EA will never get another cent from me.
posted by flabdablet at 9:10 AM on April 3, 2019
There should probably be an FPP for this massive Kotaku postmortem, but I'm just gonna drop it in here for now.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:18 AM on April 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 9:18 AM on April 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
That's for the update, tobascodagama. A solid read and totally believable. It's so unfortunate.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:57 PM on April 3, 2019
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:57 PM on April 3, 2019
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Anyone who has mentioned Anthem has mentioned how it was trying to be too many things and also that it was buggy as hell. EA really is a trash company. There's not anything they can't infect and ruin. I feel sorry for all the headaches this has caused.
posted by Fizz at 11:25 AM on March 6, 2019 [8 favorites]