Outsourcing Parenting
May 10, 2019 1:30 PM Subscribe
When Elizabeth Siegel’s toddler was ready to be potty-trained last year, she didn’t reach for a how-to book, check out advice on mommy blogs or ask her own mother for help. The partner at a visual marketing company hired a toilet-training pro to do her crap work.
“I love working with an expert, and I didn’t have the time. My husband and I both work,” she said. “I’m an expert in basically what I’m paid to do, which is my profession. Why wouldn’t I go to someone who understands?”
The training took place over eight hours on two consecutive days in Siegel’s Manhattan home in her now-3.5-year-old daughter’s ensuite black marble bathroom. Siegel was there for day one and took notes on a pad, while the nanny supervised the second day.
The service was provided by Samantha Allen, owner of NYC Potty Training, who charges anywhere from $2,000 to $3,300. Since founding her company in June 2014, she has built a client base that stretches from Virginia and California to London and Dubai and is considering franchising.
The rise of consultants for everything from childproofing home inspectors to baby personal shoppers, has turned this basic biological milestone into Parenting, Inc. What was once the domain of the domicile now can be outsourced. To those who utilize gender-reveal party planners and professional toilet-trainers, it's a chance to turn to people far more knowledgeable. But critics contend that this commodification of parenthood, a life phase as old as time itself, is a shirking of one's most fundamental duties as a human being and further stratifies society along class lines.
The service was provided by Samantha Allen, owner of NYC Potty Training, who charges anywhere from $2,000 to $3,300. Since founding her company in June 2014, she has built a client base that stretches from Virginia and California to London and Dubai and is considering franchising.
The rise of consultants for everything from childproofing home inspectors to baby personal shoppers, has turned this basic biological milestone into Parenting, Inc. What was once the domain of the domicile now can be outsourced. To those who utilize gender-reveal party planners and professional toilet-trainers, it's a chance to turn to people far more knowledgeable. But critics contend that this commodification of parenthood, a life phase as old as time itself, is a shirking of one's most fundamental duties as a human being and further stratifies society along class lines.
I almost shit my pants reading this. Seriously? I guess if you have a nanny, might as well hire another consultant to do the potty training. Where does it stop? According to the logic of hiring the expert, you could probably outsource the entire upbringing. I guess that was the point of boarding school.
posted by AugustWest at 1:36 PM on May 10, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 1:36 PM on May 10, 2019 [7 favorites]
commodification of parenthood, a life phase as old as time itself, is a shirking of one's most fundamental duties as a human being
Oh fuck that noise, USA Today. Parenthood is not "one's most fundamental dut[y] as a human being." That's some Handmaid's Tale bullshit.
Beyond that: just about anything that gives an entrepreneur an opportunity to separate the ultra-wealthy from their money seems good to me.
posted by jedicus at 1:37 PM on May 10, 2019 [130 favorites]
Oh fuck that noise, USA Today. Parenthood is not "one's most fundamental dut[y] as a human being." That's some Handmaid's Tale bullshit.
Beyond that: just about anything that gives an entrepreneur an opportunity to separate the ultra-wealthy from their money seems good to me.
posted by jedicus at 1:37 PM on May 10, 2019 [130 favorites]
What that does to the kid, I don't know, but I can hazard a guess that they'd much rather have the attention of their parents.
posted by heyitsgogi at 1:38 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by heyitsgogi at 1:38 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
Rich people have always had maids and nannies and servants and housekeepers and so on, and the object has never been to free up their time so they could diaper their kids themselves. The Instagramification of it, with people doing Photo Ops with their kids--who appear surprised by the unaccustomed parental attention--is gross in a way that's unique to this moment in time, but the rest of it seems fairly standard.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:38 PM on May 10, 2019 [24 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:38 PM on May 10, 2019 [24 favorites]
Given how fucked up some of the parental ideas around potty training are.... maybe for some folks hiring a pro is going to do the least damage?
Though historically ‘pro’ advice about bodily functions has also been extremely misinformed and/or malicious.
So. Roll the dice?
posted by bilabial at 1:38 PM on May 10, 2019 [18 favorites]
Though historically ‘pro’ advice about bodily functions has also been extremely misinformed and/or malicious.
So. Roll the dice?
posted by bilabial at 1:38 PM on May 10, 2019 [18 favorites]
What impact of all this has on children or the parents, both stripped of the primal bonding that accompanies these activities, remains to be seen.
Isn't this basically traditional upper class parenting? Everything is handled by nannies and wet nurses.
posted by airmail at 1:39 PM on May 10, 2019 [25 favorites]
Isn't this basically traditional upper class parenting? Everything is handled by nannies and wet nurses.
posted by airmail at 1:39 PM on May 10, 2019 [25 favorites]
If you already are wealthy enough to afford a nanny, I don't see a problem here.
posted by indianbadger1 at 1:39 PM on May 10, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by indianbadger1 at 1:39 PM on May 10, 2019 [9 favorites]
According to the logic of hiring the expert, you could probably outsource the entire upbringing.
I had a friend who babysat for a couple that used a surrogate, then had a daytime nanny and an evening nanny. And I guess some babysitters as well.
In general I won't hold it against anyone who wants to trade money for time/ease, but we felt that this was probably taking it a bit too far.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:41 PM on May 10, 2019 [10 favorites]
I had a friend who babysat for a couple that used a surrogate, then had a daytime nanny and an evening nanny. And I guess some babysitters as well.
In general I won't hold it against anyone who wants to trade money for time/ease, but we felt that this was probably taking it a bit too far.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:41 PM on May 10, 2019 [10 favorites]
So what's the difference between a kid that costs $2000 to potty train and one that costs $3300?
posted by InfidelZombie at 1:44 PM on May 10, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by InfidelZombie at 1:44 PM on May 10, 2019 [11 favorites]
Really digging how totally absent dad seems to be from this process. One reference to how her husband works, and then... nothing?
posted by mhoye at 1:44 PM on May 10, 2019 [27 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 1:44 PM on May 10, 2019 [27 favorites]
So what's the difference between a kid that costs $2000 to potty train and one that costs $3300?
It’s sort of the opposite of jazz. If you have to ask, you don’t want to know.
posted by mhoye at 1:46 PM on May 10, 2019 [14 favorites]
It’s sort of the opposite of jazz. If you have to ask, you don’t want to know.
posted by mhoye at 1:46 PM on May 10, 2019 [14 favorites]
Many humans also used to live in extended family groups with several generations of aunts and uncles, grandparents and cousins around to help raise the kids.
Human children are born in a larval state. They take a tremendous amount of resources to raise. People with wealth have always outsourced a lot of the work.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:47 PM on May 10, 2019 [66 favorites]
Human children are born in a larval state. They take a tremendous amount of resources to raise. People with wealth have always outsourced a lot of the work.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:47 PM on May 10, 2019 [66 favorites]
The training took place over eight hours on two consecutive days
If this actually works, I have no absolutely no negative judgment for anyone who can afford to hire this person and chooses to do so.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:51 PM on May 10, 2019 [80 favorites]
If this actually works, I have no absolutely no negative judgment for anyone who can afford to hire this person and chooses to do so.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:51 PM on May 10, 2019 [80 favorites]
Human children are born in a larval state. They take a tremendous amount of resources to raise.
I remember in college, an anthropology professor said that human society has to function as a sort of extended womb, as it takes many years before a child would have any hope of survival on its own; in other animals, the period of dependency is fairly brief.
posted by thelonius at 1:53 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
I remember in college, an anthropology professor said that human society has to function as a sort of extended womb, as it takes many years before a child would have any hope of survival on its own; in other animals, the period of dependency is fairly brief.
posted by thelonius at 1:53 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
jedicus, I flagged your comment as fantastic. When I read the article, I had many thoughts. They included, "If you can potty train my kid in two days you can have all of my money" and "Good for someone figuring out how to make money at being good at potty training" and also, "I bet this is yet another way to talk trash about moms indirectly."
posted by Bella Donna at 1:55 PM on May 10, 2019 [86 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 1:55 PM on May 10, 2019 [86 favorites]
If this actually works, I have no absolutely no negative judgment for anyone who can afford to hire this person and chooses to do so.
There is a method that purports to work (I think probably "works for a subset of kids who are a) wired right and b) are developmentally at the perfect stage") in this time frame (like, three days, something like that). There are books and stuff. I never did it because I will be honest, I didn't and don't have 3 solid days to do nothing but potty train.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:55 PM on May 10, 2019
There is a method that purports to work (I think probably "works for a subset of kids who are a) wired right and b) are developmentally at the perfect stage") in this time frame (like, three days, something like that). There are books and stuff. I never did it because I will be honest, I didn't and don't have 3 solid days to do nothing but potty train.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:55 PM on May 10, 2019
She's forgoing the opportunity to embarrass her grown child in a couple of decades by loudly sharing potty training details at their wedding reception. This is Bad Parenting
posted by thatwhichfalls at 1:57 PM on May 10, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 1:57 PM on May 10, 2019 [9 favorites]
That's a lot to pay for potty training. But it took me 3 days of intensive work to potty train my son. So I can't say it's a crazy thing to outsource.
posted by schwinggg! at 1:58 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by schwinggg! at 1:58 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
I remember reading one potty training manual back in the day that leigitimately said that if you find it too difficult, maybe you can enlist a neighbor to do it. Unfortuntely, I had no neighbors whom had committed undiscovered felonies with which I could blackmail them, so it was up to us.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 1:59 PM on May 10, 2019 [15 favorites]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 1:59 PM on May 10, 2019 [15 favorites]
Thomas the Tank Engine videos (which my child would watch for hours while sitting on a training potty until the desired event happened) trained my kid. Because nothing else worked. The books all failed me. He did not care about stickers or candy or toys and he thought using the toilet when you could just crap your diaper was for rubes. But once he used the training potty a few times he got the jist and we could keep him doing it.
Downside: Only Bad Parents let their kids watch so much TV.
Upside: did not cost me $3300.
posted by emjaybee at 2:00 PM on May 10, 2019 [28 favorites]
Downside: Only Bad Parents let their kids watch so much TV.
Upside: did not cost me $3300.
posted by emjaybee at 2:00 PM on May 10, 2019 [28 favorites]
The training took place over eight hours on two consecutive days
i am both horrified and hilarified by the idea of a baby pooping bootcamp. i remember nothing abt my own potty training, only anecdotal stuff recounted to me by my grandma who was responsible for it all, but i can't imagine i would have reacted well to being locked in a bathroom with a stranger for 4 hours. someone gonna get bit.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:01 PM on May 10, 2019 [19 favorites]
i am both horrified and hilarified by the idea of a baby pooping bootcamp. i remember nothing abt my own potty training, only anecdotal stuff recounted to me by my grandma who was responsible for it all, but i can't imagine i would have reacted well to being locked in a bathroom with a stranger for 4 hours. someone gonna get bit.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:01 PM on May 10, 2019 [19 favorites]
The only thing that genuinely bothers me about this is that Allen is apparently flying all over the place for this, so the money isn't staying in anybody's local economy, but that might improve if more people were asking for this sort of help and more people were providing it. The fact that rich people exist is terrible, but paying others for services is basically at the bottom of the list of problematic things about rich people. I'd rather way more people had housekeepers and potty training consultants, assuming fair wages and working conditions, over equivalent spending on imported goods and investment managers and real estate. Please, pay people to do stuff. Pay as many people as possible to do stuff.
posted by Sequence at 2:01 PM on May 10, 2019 [21 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 2:01 PM on May 10, 2019 [21 favorites]
I want to kill with extreme prejudice the idea that the only people who should be involved in raising a child are the two parents (read: mother, most of the time) and that there's something wrong with getting help, whether from family or help you hire.
posted by peacheater at 2:04 PM on May 10, 2019 [135 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 2:04 PM on May 10, 2019 [135 favorites]
We more or less outsourced potty training to daycare. Obviously there was still work and reinforcement at home, but seriously, the main goal for moving from the threes room to the preschool room was being housebroken, they had multiple tiny kid-size bathrooms and a whole schedule and plan, and peer pressure is a powerful force, so it worked out great. This was over a decade ago, so not an entirely newfangled trend, and I regret nothing.
posted by Flannery Culp at 2:07 PM on May 10, 2019 [23 favorites]
posted by Flannery Culp at 2:07 PM on May 10, 2019 [23 favorites]
Also from TFA (emphasis mine): "What feels too far? What feels like you've taken a core task of parenting and paid someone to do it?" said University of Virginia sociology professor Allison Pugh, who wrote the book Longing and Belonging: Parents, Children, and Consumer Culture. "This is about time and people wanting to maintain some standards of parenting, what they think is adequate care and at the same time, not able to do it themselves (and) farm it out... People beholden to work schedules are unable to do the kind of parenting they wish they could."
posted by Bella Donna at 2:13 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 2:13 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
Shit, royalty used to send their infants out to wet-nurses to be suckled until they could be weaned. Bringing in a poop-whisperer to oversee potty training doesn't even come close to the kind of traditional baby-needs outsourcing that our ancestors considered acceptable.
posted by Chrischris at 2:20 PM on May 10, 2019 [16 favorites]
posted by Chrischris at 2:20 PM on May 10, 2019 [16 favorites]
Whispers: Heeeere poopypoopypoop!
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:25 PM on May 10, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:25 PM on May 10, 2019 [8 favorites]
I don't see anything wrong with this, provided it works and isn't traumatic??? Kids are supposed to be raised in big batches by the tribe. We can't really do that now so we have to get help where we can. There's nothing wrong with that. Kids are stressed by stressed parents.
posted by bleep at 2:29 PM on May 10, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by bleep at 2:29 PM on May 10, 2019 [9 favorites]
These kids would be great if it wasn't for the @#$%ing parenting!
posted by prepmonkey at 2:32 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by prepmonkey at 2:32 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
I'm another who has zero problem with this as long as it's done sensitively and sensibly. I've known enough parents who freaked out about potty training to realize there's a reasonable market for this kind of service, better for kids and better for parents.
posted by biscotti at 2:37 PM on May 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by biscotti at 2:37 PM on May 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
a shirking of one's most fundamental duties as a human being
It's been commented on already, but this reads really offensively to me.
For potty training, I see nothing wrong with outsourcing, especially when people are paying commensurately with the work involved which appears to be the case. Hell, for $3300 I'd consider tackling some toddler poop -- that is a lot more than I earn in two days.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:40 PM on May 10, 2019 [11 favorites]
It's been commented on already, but this reads really offensively to me.
For potty training, I see nothing wrong with outsourcing, especially when people are paying commensurately with the work involved which appears to be the case. Hell, for $3300 I'd consider tackling some toddler poop -- that is a lot more than I earn in two days.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:40 PM on May 10, 2019 [11 favorites]
My daughter's day care provider (small, in home day care, run by an Indian woman in her 50s or 60s) decided one day that she had had enough of changing littlefix's diapers and just.. did the thing. In a few days. For no additional charge. Looks like I saved a bundle on that deal.
posted by sacrifix at 2:41 PM on May 10, 2019 [18 favorites]
posted by sacrifix at 2:41 PM on May 10, 2019 [18 favorites]
Honestly this is a much better use of dollars than most "rebranding" exercises that cost way more.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:42 PM on May 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 2:42 PM on May 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
When The Littlest Hobo was a baby, we researched this topic rather extensively. A lot of the "god diapers are a racket" books include the Hanoi Jane story.
Apparently when Jane Fonda was performing her ill-fated press tour of Vietnam, she left her young child or children (I forget) in the charge of a local for babysitting. After a couple days, she got them back fully toilet-trained. This is held up in these books as a sign that modern diapers delay our own sensory feedback systems with these processes, and all it takes is for someone to say "what the hell are these 'diapers' of which you speak?" to solve the problem over a weekend.
We had great successes through Just Not Using Diapers Once On Solids that were always set back by the nursery's insistence that they'd never heard of a 2yo who could use a toilet, so they never let our kid actually use the thing and disasters would happen and they'd blame US for not Just Fucking Using A Million Disposable Diapers.
So yeah, we all outsource child-rearing in small or large ways. It takes a village etc. Sure, the stylish wealthy folks do it in ways that we see coded as "insipid" but as an overall system I say just DO ANYTHING to stop prolonging the wallowing-in-own-filth stage like we do now.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 2:46 PM on May 10, 2019 [7 favorites]
Apparently when Jane Fonda was performing her ill-fated press tour of Vietnam, she left her young child or children (I forget) in the charge of a local for babysitting. After a couple days, she got them back fully toilet-trained. This is held up in these books as a sign that modern diapers delay our own sensory feedback systems with these processes, and all it takes is for someone to say "what the hell are these 'diapers' of which you speak?" to solve the problem over a weekend.
We had great successes through Just Not Using Diapers Once On Solids that were always set back by the nursery's insistence that they'd never heard of a 2yo who could use a toilet, so they never let our kid actually use the thing and disasters would happen and they'd blame US for not Just Fucking Using A Million Disposable Diapers.
So yeah, we all outsource child-rearing in small or large ways. It takes a village etc. Sure, the stylish wealthy folks do it in ways that we see coded as "insipid" but as an overall system I say just DO ANYTHING to stop prolonging the wallowing-in-own-filth stage like we do now.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 2:46 PM on May 10, 2019 [7 favorites]
It doesn't seem that weird to me because a lot of parents I know had someone who took care of the potty-training so they didn't have to do any of it. They weren't even super-wealthy, but they had something else in common...what was it? Oh, yeah, they were fathers whose wives did that kind of thing.
posted by Ralston McTodd at 2:52 PM on May 10, 2019 [90 favorites]
posted by Ralston McTodd at 2:52 PM on May 10, 2019 [90 favorites]
Shit, royalty used to send their infants out to wet-nurses to be suckled until they could be weaned. Bringing in a poop-whisperer to oversee potty training doesn't even come close to the kind of traditional baby-needs outsourcing that our ancestors considered acceptable.
I think it would be highly amusing should DNA testing eventually disclose a shocking number of startling discontinuities within the established dynasties of history.
posted by jamjam at 2:57 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
I think it would be highly amusing should DNA testing eventually disclose a shocking number of startling discontinuities within the established dynasties of history.
posted by jamjam at 2:57 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
Look y'all, I don't want to be that person who says another parent's version of parenting is shitty and a fail.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:10 PM on May 10, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:10 PM on May 10, 2019 [8 favorites]
Over a year ago we did this with a three year old. The trigger was he slept all through the night with dry diaper. No books. No internet. Just awareness about how much time has passed and his usual behavior. He had his own little toilet that he could get on himself. And there was the big toilet which required lifting. He came up with his own word for having to go. We just asked. Do you have to go? If enough time had passed we set him on the throne. And if he went, joy and praise. He quickly learned to tell us on his own. It took about a week. Though I have to confess when the diapers went away I was nervous. But success. Free.
posted by njohnson23 at 3:14 PM on May 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 3:14 PM on May 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
If I was to make a list of all the things that are deeply important that a parent can share with and pass on to a child, I'd be thinking empathy, curiosity, sense of humor, appreciation for beauty, a sense of fun, the joy of play and physical activity, a whole bunch of things....
I'm not sure "shitting in the right place" would be high on the list, no matter how important it is to functioning in society. I feel like as long as that gets done, and gets done in a manner that's respectful of and healthy for the child, it doesn't matter terribly much if it's done by somebody else.
And if you're good at potty training kids? God bless you if you can find people to throw money at you to do it. If we had that kind of cash to spare for such things we might have done so ourselves.
posted by edheil at 3:18 PM on May 10, 2019 [16 favorites]
I'm not sure "shitting in the right place" would be high on the list, no matter how important it is to functioning in society. I feel like as long as that gets done, and gets done in a manner that's respectful of and healthy for the child, it doesn't matter terribly much if it's done by somebody else.
And if you're good at potty training kids? God bless you if you can find people to throw money at you to do it. If we had that kind of cash to spare for such things we might have done so ourselves.
posted by edheil at 3:18 PM on May 10, 2019 [16 favorites]
For that much money I'd expect the kid to be able to poop a perfect sphere.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 3:39 PM on May 10, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by Cardinal Fang at 3:39 PM on May 10, 2019 [10 favorites]
AskMe: I need somebody like a life coach, but I want to cut out the middle man and just hand over the keys to my life and follow them on social media having the success and happiness I missed. Can anybody recommend someone in my area?
posted by zaixfeep at 3:39 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 3:39 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
I have a child that has had a medical condition rendering him unable to regulate his bowels. I would pay anything to have him potty trained. Sell my car. Remortgage my house. I have successfully potty trained one child, and plan to potty train a third, but my middle child remains in diapers. Stop. Yes we've tried that. Yep, we've tried that too. Don't give me a book. Or a website or a philosophy or tell me no one goes to high school in diapers.
Potty training sucks when it works. It's heartbreakingly awful when it doesn't, and that doesn't quite communicate the despair. And all society does is judge the moms.
If someone else can pay for it to happen, why shouldn't they? No parental bond was improved because they sat in a bathroom with their child, desperately entertaining said child with yet another viewing of Moana while wishing for an enormous margarita and just five minutes alone to NOT TALK ABOUT POOP.
There are parts of parenting that shouldn't be outsourced, sure. This? This is not one of them.
posted by e to the pi i at 3:49 PM on May 10, 2019 [52 favorites]
Potty training sucks when it works. It's heartbreakingly awful when it doesn't, and that doesn't quite communicate the despair. And all society does is judge the moms.
If someone else can pay for it to happen, why shouldn't they? No parental bond was improved because they sat in a bathroom with their child, desperately entertaining said child with yet another viewing of Moana while wishing for an enormous margarita and just five minutes alone to NOT TALK ABOUT POOP.
There are parts of parenting that shouldn't be outsourced, sure. This? This is not one of them.
posted by e to the pi i at 3:49 PM on May 10, 2019 [52 favorites]
If you take the money out of the equation: in a culture with strong family ties, new parents would have an auntie or two (and it's possible that a cis man can be an an auntie) who's known as being Good At Toilet Training. Auntie would come and visit for a day or so, might offer you some tips to avoid poopy recidivism, and the thing would be accomplished.
Second example: In our atomized culture that piles all the domestic and kid-related labor on the person with the uterus, the mother-in-law comes to visit, but she's no good at toilet training. Given that our culture shames women who aren't good at these things, mom-in-law won't admit to her lack of poop savvy and implicitly blames the new mom and kid. Then the stressed-out new mom turns to her mom friends (who are only intermittently available by phone), her sister on the West Coast, and, finally, YouTube. Guess what: kid picks up on all that stress. Toilet training takes longer and leaves long-lasting emotional wreckage.
Given a choice between neurotic or unavailable relatives, YouTube, and a calm, well-paid consultant, I know which I'd pick if I had the dough. My kid would be better off, too.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 3:50 PM on May 10, 2019 [14 favorites]
Second example: In our atomized culture that piles all the domestic and kid-related labor on the person with the uterus, the mother-in-law comes to visit, but she's no good at toilet training. Given that our culture shames women who aren't good at these things, mom-in-law won't admit to her lack of poop savvy and implicitly blames the new mom and kid. Then the stressed-out new mom turns to her mom friends (who are only intermittently available by phone), her sister on the West Coast, and, finally, YouTube. Guess what: kid picks up on all that stress. Toilet training takes longer and leaves long-lasting emotional wreckage.
Given a choice between neurotic or unavailable relatives, YouTube, and a calm, well-paid consultant, I know which I'd pick if I had the dough. My kid would be better off, too.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 3:50 PM on May 10, 2019 [14 favorites]
I feel strongly that eating the rich should not require us to resort to gender-role essentialism.
posted by mhoye at 4:22 PM on May 10, 2019 [19 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 4:22 PM on May 10, 2019 [19 favorites]
So what's the difference between a kid that costs $2000 to potty train and one that costs $3300?
Child's external anatomy?
Age of child?
Zip code of parents?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:24 PM on May 10, 2019 [3 favorites]
Child's external anatomy?
Age of child?
Zip code of parents?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:24 PM on May 10, 2019 [3 favorites]
Ever since potty training futures got put on the blockchain, prices have fluctuated wildly.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 4:29 PM on May 10, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 4:29 PM on May 10, 2019 [11 favorites]
For that much money I'd expect the kid to be able to poop a perfect sphere
The Brint Moltke Method is ungodly expensive.
posted by grumpybear69 at 4:36 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
The Brint Moltke Method is ungodly expensive.
posted by grumpybear69 at 4:36 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
Am I reading the zeitgeist correctly here, that potty training is something people try to accomplish in just a few days? No wonder it's seen as such a stressful activity! Why the rush?
posted by Bugbread at 4:45 PM on May 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Bugbread at 4:45 PM on May 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
Some things, you pick it up, and you never stop training. Potty training is also like this. I never stopped training, every day I practice, and I think I've benefited greatly from this attitude, both here, and in life.
posted by some loser at 4:48 PM on May 10, 2019 [21 favorites]
posted by some loser at 4:48 PM on May 10, 2019 [21 favorites]
My partner as a sideline does a lot of what she simply describes as "post-partum doula work" (though nowhere near in that cost range of the article and she doesn't do potty training unless its already begun). A lot of that entails activities that in other cultures and in the past would have been outsourced to family, friends and neighbours. So stuff like teaching basic baby care, figuring out sleeping (which is often more about training the parents), feeding (it's hilarious what people think babies should eat), helping them sort out the emotional labour of the household, etc. And yes a lot of her clients are like the ones in the article - wealthy, white and very busy. As ridiculous as some of rich clients can be (jeez loueez trust me they are funny) but they all have one thing in common with those who aren't rich - they love their children. They love them enough to do anything for them.
posted by Ashwagandha at 4:51 PM on May 10, 2019 [19 favorites]
posted by Ashwagandha at 4:51 PM on May 10, 2019 [19 favorites]
So what's the difference between a kid that costs $2000 to potty train and one that costs $3300?
The amount of crap you have to put up with.
(I'll show myself out...)
posted by chromecow at 4:53 PM on May 10, 2019 [17 favorites]
The amount of crap you have to put up with.
(I'll show myself out...)
posted by chromecow at 4:53 PM on May 10, 2019 [17 favorites]
Rich people have always had maids and nannies and servants and housekeepers and so on
And then the kids grow up and call themselves "self-made."
posted by Dr. Send at 4:55 PM on May 10, 2019 [11 favorites]
And then the kids grow up and call themselves "self-made."
posted by Dr. Send at 4:55 PM on May 10, 2019 [11 favorites]
Well, I certainly didn't take this boot camp approach, but it's definitely A Thing. It works for some kids, it doesn't for others, like everything.
I'll tell you what though, why the rush? Because there are people who will judge the shit out of you if your kid isn't potty trained by $arbitrary_age. (And by "you" I mean usually the mom.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:56 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
I'll tell you what though, why the rush? Because there are people who will judge the shit out of you if your kid isn't potty trained by $arbitrary_age. (And by "you" I mean usually the mom.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:56 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
Aren't there people who do similar for sleep-training babies? (which also would be totally worth it) If the alternative is to slog through this thing yourself why not let experts handle it? And they could be paid by the state to go around to everyone who needs the help so it isn't just something for rich people.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:00 PM on May 10, 2019
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:00 PM on May 10, 2019
So what's the difference between a kid that costs $2000 to potty train and one that costs $3300?
An electric shock collar, a butt-plug and a bucket... or as I like to think of it, Travis Kalanick's new startup Püpr.
Heads up chromecow, I'm following you out - leave breadcrumbs.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:09 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
An electric shock collar, a butt-plug and a bucket... or as I like to think of it, Travis Kalanick's new startup Püpr.
Heads up chromecow, I'm following you out - leave breadcrumbs.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:09 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm eternally grateful that I don't remember my own toilet-training.
I wonder if the mom took photos of this momentous occasion. If so, did she put them on Instagram? Pinterest?
posted by bendy at 5:20 PM on May 10, 2019
I wonder if the mom took photos of this momentous occasion. If so, did she put them on Instagram? Pinterest?
posted by bendy at 5:20 PM on May 10, 2019
$2000 - Standing wipe.
$3300 - Sitting wipe.
posted by maxwelton at 5:29 PM on May 10, 2019 [18 favorites]
$3300 - Sitting wipe.
posted by maxwelton at 5:29 PM on May 10, 2019 [18 favorites]
I am really glad this service exists. There are people who legitimately need it. It shouldn't cost 3K-- it should be one of the things you get an as option coming with your state-funded daycare.
posted by Rush-That-Speaks at 5:43 PM on May 10, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by Rush-That-Speaks at 5:43 PM on May 10, 2019 [14 favorites]
While obviously most people can’t take the extra step to get the best toilet trainer to expedite the toilet-training of their child, I guess I really don’t see this as being remarkably different from sending your kid out to a school to be taught by professional teachers. If you pay someone to teach your kid how to do math, and that’s a valuable role in society, then what’s so bad about paying someone to teach your kid how to use the toilet?
I mean this is probably one of the few teachers in America who actually gets paid what they’re worth.
posted by Autumnheart at 5:45 PM on May 10, 2019 [12 favorites]
I mean this is probably one of the few teachers in America who actually gets paid what they’re worth.
posted by Autumnheart at 5:45 PM on May 10, 2019 [12 favorites]
Ugh. My 3 year old thinks undies are for chumps and he's supposed to start Montessori school (which requires kids be reasonably well toilet trained) next month. I didn't know there were pros to call in, but now that I do, it sounds pretty tempting. The deadline is freaking all of us out and injecting unnecessary stress into the situation.
My older kid was obsessed with undies and we trained her with the weekend boot camp method, no problem. It's not like I'm too fancy to toilet train in general. But I've been trying with this one for months and his response is a hard nope so far.
posted by potrzebie at 5:52 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
My older kid was obsessed with undies and we trained her with the weekend boot camp method, no problem. It's not like I'm too fancy to toilet train in general. But I've been trying with this one for months and his response is a hard nope so far.
posted by potrzebie at 5:52 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
The problem is real! Stool Toileting Refusal
There's a question on Ask if you are reading this and thinking "Wow, potty training is easy! They should just ____. Too bad they didn't ask ME for help!"
posted by Vatnesine at 6:31 PM on May 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
There's a question on Ask if you are reading this and thinking "Wow, potty training is easy! They should just ____. Too bad they didn't ask ME for help!"
posted by Vatnesine at 6:31 PM on May 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
Like Flannery Culp, I’m a little surprised at the surprise here. Is this the argument about whether daycare is for monsters, writ small?
posted by eirias at 6:41 PM on May 10, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by eirias at 6:41 PM on May 10, 2019 [3 favorites]
turned this basic biological milestone into Parenting, Inc.
I am all for crapping on the rich, but this sounds suspiciously like someone clutching their pearls and shouting, "Oh no! Women aren't performing unpaid labor?!"
posted by evidenceofabsence at 6:45 PM on May 10, 2019 [25 favorites]
I am all for crapping on the rich, but this sounds suspiciously like someone clutching their pearls and shouting, "Oh no! Women aren't performing unpaid labor?!"
posted by evidenceofabsence at 6:45 PM on May 10, 2019 [25 favorites]
Is this the argument about whether daycare is for monsters, writ small?
From over here, yep, sure looks like it. It's got a dollop of lol-rich-people mixed in, but the core seems to be that if you're not suffering, you're a Bad Parent.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:03 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
From over here, yep, sure looks like it. It's got a dollop of lol-rich-people mixed in, but the core seems to be that if you're not suffering, you're a Bad Parent.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:03 PM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
This is someone who not only efficiently cleans messes up, but who can, in only two days, train even the most infantile person to stop dumping their uncontrolled shit outbursts all over the place. Cortex, can we hire her as a mod?
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 7:15 PM on May 10, 2019 [23 favorites]
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 7:15 PM on May 10, 2019 [23 favorites]
Kadin2048: " It's got a dollop of lol-rich-people mixed in, but the core seems to be that if you're not suffering, you're a Bad Parent."
I dunno, knowing MeFites' general outlook, I'd say it's 98.7% "rich people suck." If the story were about moms who got relatives to potty train, or communities which came together to do potty training, or the like, I doubt there would be any blowback here. One other parts of the internet, sure, but here I'd say that here's it's almost entirely the money.
posted by Bugbread at 7:39 PM on May 10, 2019 [3 favorites]
I dunno, knowing MeFites' general outlook, I'd say it's 98.7% "rich people suck." If the story were about moms who got relatives to potty train, or communities which came together to do potty training, or the like, I doubt there would be any blowback here. One other parts of the internet, sure, but here I'd say that here's it's almost entirely the money.
posted by Bugbread at 7:39 PM on May 10, 2019 [3 favorites]
he thought using the toilet when you could just crap your diaper was for rubes.
Well, he kinda has a point.
poopy boot camp
Poopcamp.
posted by darkstar at 8:31 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
Well, he kinda has a point.
poopy boot camp
Poopcamp.
posted by darkstar at 8:31 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
That Hanoi Jane story is false. She went there in 1972 and her children were born in Sept 68 and 73. So either a Vietnamese nanny trained her 3 year old, big whoop, or it’s just been transferred to her.
Though yes, the elimination communication is real. I know kids in the West who have done it very early but it requires very close attention from a dedicated caregiver and probably doesn’t work for all children.
posted by vunder at 10:18 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
Though yes, the elimination communication is real. I know kids in the West who have done it very early but it requires very close attention from a dedicated caregiver and probably doesn’t work for all children.
posted by vunder at 10:18 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
Both my children were nearly impossible to potty train, for completely different reasons. (Child 1: chronic constipation to a degree I did not believe possible until I saw the xrays. Child 2: severe processing issues in his proprioceptive sense, such that he has a really hard time telling if he was hungry or thirsty or hot or cold or tired or nauseated or itchy or needed to poop. It was like his check engine light came on and that was it.) Neither was potty trained until after they were four, both of them took literal months of hoarse weeping on my part, and if I could have done them for two grand a pop I would have sold a kidney to afford it.
posted by KathrynT at 10:37 PM on May 10, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 10:37 PM on May 10, 2019 [14 favorites]
Though yes, the elimination communication is real. I know kids in the West who have done it very early but it requires very close attention from a dedicated caregiver and probably doesn’t work for all children
Elimination communication along with cloth diapers worked for us (mostly under control by 18 months). We were lucky but yeah it's not easy and you have to stay on top of it. And some kids just don't take to it. We found it best to have half dozen kiddie potties around the house. And it is critical for parents to be on the same page during this time otherwise it is pointless. It was a ridiculous weirdo hippie process (one of the many choices we made that we were grilled about endlessly) but not having to deal with diapers was a relief.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:58 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
Elimination communication along with cloth diapers worked for us (mostly under control by 18 months). We were lucky but yeah it's not easy and you have to stay on top of it. And some kids just don't take to it. We found it best to have half dozen kiddie potties around the house. And it is critical for parents to be on the same page during this time otherwise it is pointless. It was a ridiculous weirdo hippie process (one of the many choices we made that we were grilled about endlessly) but not having to deal with diapers was a relief.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:58 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
The "good" preschools around here won't even consider toddlers that are not potty trained. That's why it's such a big deal for moms, and again, it's almost always laid at mom's feet, both expectation and blame.
I don't remember potty training the Boy. Clearly we did, I'm guessing there was no lasting trauma on either side, or the trauma was so traumatic I've buried it next to the clown bodies in my mind palace basement.
And while I personally would be hard pressed to pay that price, considering how difficult potty training can be, and how oppositional some kids can be, and given how stressed and overworked most Americans are, this service seems to be a valid and rationally priced one.
Mostly though, shame on USA Today for managing to denigrate successful women, motherhood, and paying for what is normally unpaid labor in one short article. This article could have been written as a celebration, a "look at this service, sure it's pricey in Town, but probably not in your area...have you called a doula to ask?" It could have talked to women across the country who can or do offer this service. It could have suggested that potty training is no big deal, and if we stopped freaking out about it, maybe everyone would be happier.
But no, we are instead led to cast judgement on a successful woman who dares to value her time more than poop, and is willing to let an expert take point on a project where expert advice can be invaluable. "Marble en suite bathrooms", we're reminded...do you have one? No, well this woman must think she's better than you, you should sneer at her life choices because she's probably sneering at yours."
This piece could have been good. Instead, it should have been flushed.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:11 AM on May 11, 2019 [29 favorites]
I don't remember potty training the Boy. Clearly we did, I'm guessing there was no lasting trauma on either side, or the trauma was so traumatic I've buried it next to the clown bodies in my mind palace basement.
And while I personally would be hard pressed to pay that price, considering how difficult potty training can be, and how oppositional some kids can be, and given how stressed and overworked most Americans are, this service seems to be a valid and rationally priced one.
Mostly though, shame on USA Today for managing to denigrate successful women, motherhood, and paying for what is normally unpaid labor in one short article. This article could have been written as a celebration, a "look at this service, sure it's pricey in Town, but probably not in your area...have you called a doula to ask?" It could have talked to women across the country who can or do offer this service. It could have suggested that potty training is no big deal, and if we stopped freaking out about it, maybe everyone would be happier.
But no, we are instead led to cast judgement on a successful woman who dares to value her time more than poop, and is willing to let an expert take point on a project where expert advice can be invaluable. "Marble en suite bathrooms", we're reminded...do you have one? No, well this woman must think she's better than you, you should sneer at her life choices because she's probably sneering at yours."
This piece could have been good. Instead, it should have been flushed.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:11 AM on May 11, 2019 [29 favorites]
The "good" preschools around here won't even consider toddlers that are not potty trained
Yeah, this is what I immediately thought when people were wondering about the rush to potty-train. I remember when *I* was in (non-fancy) daycare, and for myriad reasons the lady who ran it wouldn't/couldn't take kids who weren't potty-trained. And she was one of the only providers in our area, so I imagine the impact of that policy was significant for certain local families. A lot of the schmancy "international" preschools where I live now won't take non-PTd kids either, apparently.
posted by peakes at 1:19 AM on May 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
Yeah, this is what I immediately thought when people were wondering about the rush to potty-train. I remember when *I* was in (non-fancy) daycare, and for myriad reasons the lady who ran it wouldn't/couldn't take kids who weren't potty-trained. And she was one of the only providers in our area, so I imagine the impact of that policy was significant for certain local families. A lot of the schmancy "international" preschools where I live now won't take non-PTd kids either, apparently.
posted by peakes at 1:19 AM on May 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
This is someone who not only efficiently cleans messes up, but who can, in only two days, train even the most infantile person to stop dumping their uncontrolled shit outbursts all over the place. Cortex, can we hire her as a mod?
Never mind that. Can we get her on staff at the White House?
posted by flabdablet at 1:38 AM on May 11, 2019 [11 favorites]
Never mind that. Can we get her on staff at the White House?
posted by flabdablet at 1:38 AM on May 11, 2019 [11 favorites]
When #1 baby was little, I was working with experts on Inuit culture, and I asked them how Inuits managed without diapers before westernization. Babies were mostly carried in oversized hoods, and mothers could feel when something was on its way, and then take out the babies to pee/poop in the snow. Well, I'm not gonna schlepp around a baby at all hours. But I did think about it and when she was a year old, I let her run around without a diaper and just do it in the garden at the family farm when she felt like it (I'd pick up in bags, like with a dog). From there, we could get her to use the bathroom. Which worked out fine, when summer was over, she was potty trained, I thought, and so did the grateful daycare people. Until she started in pre-school and happily pooped in the yard there. There is a long story about this and it is terrible, but the thing is, we are not living like our ancestors in extended families. We are living in cities and buying all sorts of help. We have to manage childcare in ways that work in our reality.
posted by mumimor at 1:50 AM on May 11, 2019 [33 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 1:50 AM on May 11, 2019 [33 favorites]
When Elizabeth Siegel’s toddler was ready to be potty-trained last year, she didn’t reach for a how-to book, check out advice on mommy blogs or ask her own mother for help. The partner at a visual marketing company hired a toilet-training pro to do her crap work.
Why doesn't this read, "When Elizabeth and [what even is his name?]'s toddler was ready to be potty-trained last year, they didn’t reach for a how-to book, check out advice on blogs or ask their own parents for help. This couple hired a toilet-training pro to do their crap work."
Oh, that's why: "But critics contend that this commodification of parenthood, a life phase as old as time itself, is a shirking of one's most fundamental duties as a human being".
Of course! It's a great opportunity to sound off about career women "shirking" their maternal duties, and we don't do that to men.
Until it's also seen as equally much her completely nameless husband's job to potty train, I commend her "shirking" it any way she can.
posted by lollusc at 2:53 AM on May 11, 2019 [43 favorites]
Why doesn't this read, "When Elizabeth and [what even is his name?]'s toddler was ready to be potty-trained last year, they didn’t reach for a how-to book, check out advice on blogs or ask their own parents for help. This couple hired a toilet-training pro to do their crap work."
Oh, that's why: "But critics contend that this commodification of parenthood, a life phase as old as time itself, is a shirking of one's most fundamental duties as a human being".
Of course! It's a great opportunity to sound off about career women "shirking" their maternal duties, and we don't do that to men.
Until it's also seen as equally much her completely nameless husband's job to potty train, I commend her "shirking" it any way she can.
posted by lollusc at 2:53 AM on May 11, 2019 [43 favorites]
“We wouldn’t be judging if a relative or the community taught the kid instead!” is just another roundabout way to undervalue women’s work, honestly. That relative would have probably been a woman, as well as most - if not all - members of this fabled potty training collective, and they would have cleaned up shit for free. We all expect women to clean up shit for free (moms, grandmothers, aunties, kind neighbors) which is why we’re all about eating the rich when one woman decides she’s good at cleaning up shit and starts charging willing people who can afford it to clean up their shit.
Sounds like a win win win for me but what the fuck do I know. I’m just a mom who’s been changing diapers for the last five years.
posted by lydhre at 4:05 AM on May 11, 2019 [11 favorites]
Sounds like a win win win for me but what the fuck do I know. I’m just a mom who’s been changing diapers for the last five years.
posted by lydhre at 4:05 AM on May 11, 2019 [11 favorites]
My daughter's day care provider (small, in home day care, run by an Indian woman in her 50s or 60s) decided one day that she had had enough of changing littlefix's diapers and just.. did the thing. In a few days. For no additional charge. Looks like I saved a bundle on that deal.
posted by sacrifix at 6:41 AM on May 11 [9 favorites +] [!]
At least one person besides childless me who read the comment thought, "How can I screen for this in a day care provider?"
posted by saysthis at 4:19 AM on May 11, 2019
posted by sacrifix at 6:41 AM on May 11 [9 favorites +] [!]
At least one person besides childless me who read the comment thought, "How can I screen for this in a day care provider?"
posted by saysthis at 4:19 AM on May 11, 2019
MetaFilter: it's a crapshoot
posted by Flannery Culp at 6:26 AM on May 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Flannery Culp at 6:26 AM on May 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
I don’t see what’s wrong with this. It’s a one-time event that new parents haven’t specialized in because how would they have? If trying to do it themselves is going to bring about yelling and trauma, I think it makes total sense to bring in an experienced person who doesn’t have an emotional attachment to the situation. I wish I’d had more of that in my upbringing. Way too much yelling.
Only con I can think of is if the child is uncomfortable with having a stranger around and telling them what to do. If the practitioner is respectful and empathetic though they should be able to work through it.
The expense is just a function of supply and demand. If this caught on, the cost would come down a bit.
posted by mantecol at 6:27 AM on May 11, 2019 [4 favorites]
Only con I can think of is if the child is uncomfortable with having a stranger around and telling them what to do. If the practitioner is respectful and empathetic though they should be able to work through it.
The expense is just a function of supply and demand. If this caught on, the cost would come down a bit.
posted by mantecol at 6:27 AM on May 11, 2019 [4 favorites]
Some of you never had kids who would reflexively refuse to do anything their parents asked, but would be completely agreeable to almost anyone else, and it shows.
OMG I was that kid. My parents' lives and my life would have been much less stressful if they could/would have outsourced some stuff, and I suspect I'd be a better person today.
$2-3K in NYC, where a family might include two parents working 50 or 60 hours a week for $100K or more each, commuting an hour or so one way, doesn't seem like a price-point for the "super rich" only. I think my roommate and I paid around the same amount for bedbug extermination roughly 10 years ago, and we were definitely nowhere near super rich. Just super desperate with emergency savings.
posted by bunderful at 6:37 AM on May 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
OMG I was that kid. My parents' lives and my life would have been much less stressful if they could/would have outsourced some stuff, and I suspect I'd be a better person today.
$2-3K in NYC, where a family might include two parents working 50 or 60 hours a week for $100K or more each, commuting an hour or so one way, doesn't seem like a price-point for the "super rich" only. I think my roommate and I paid around the same amount for bedbug extermination roughly 10 years ago, and we were definitely nowhere near super rich. Just super desperate with emergency savings.
posted by bunderful at 6:37 AM on May 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
I thought Poop Month was over!
posted by loquacious at 6:49 AM on May 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 6:49 AM on May 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
What a deeply sexist article.
posted by sciencegeek at 8:30 AM on May 11, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by sciencegeek at 8:30 AM on May 11, 2019 [5 favorites]
Forget it, loquacious. It’s MetaFilter. Poop Month is never over.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:47 AM on May 11, 2019
posted by Bella Donna at 8:47 AM on May 11, 2019
We were lucky in that the tadpole’s daycare approached us, saying “we think he’s ready - want to try potty training?” And they worked with him, and with us, to get the little guy using the toilet.
We were unlucky in that at the age he was ready to begin toilet training, NOT going poop was one of the only things he could control. So he exercised his control. Which meant he ended up constipated, to a degree that the X-ray showed his bowels totally full. Which of course meant that going hurt, so he refused to go in an awful feedback cycle.
He ended up toilet trained, of course, but it was not a solo effort. We used a “dry diaper” chart and stickers as motivation, we had the support of our day care staff, and (ugh) I was the one who bit the bullet and tackled the constipation issue, so Mrs. Frogs didn’t have to be the one who inserted the stool softeners at diaper change time. That was not fun.
I dunno I guess. Outsource what you want, do what you want, some parts of parenting will always suck.
posted by caution live frogs at 10:16 AM on May 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
We were unlucky in that at the age he was ready to begin toilet training, NOT going poop was one of the only things he could control. So he exercised his control. Which meant he ended up constipated, to a degree that the X-ray showed his bowels totally full. Which of course meant that going hurt, so he refused to go in an awful feedback cycle.
He ended up toilet trained, of course, but it was not a solo effort. We used a “dry diaper” chart and stickers as motivation, we had the support of our day care staff, and (ugh) I was the one who bit the bullet and tackled the constipation issue, so Mrs. Frogs didn’t have to be the one who inserted the stool softeners at diaper change time. That was not fun.
I dunno I guess. Outsource what you want, do what you want, some parts of parenting will always suck.
posted by caution live frogs at 10:16 AM on May 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
Potty training is not quality parent-kid time.
It‘s kind of the opposite, filling your days with mutual frustration.
I have two kids, one, who refused to ditch her diapers at 4,5 , eloquently explaining that „they‘re just more practical“. And one who decided she was ready at 2,5 years old, because she wanted to do everything just like her big sister. Reader: She was not ready and it took us two months of multiple puddling a day to give up. Because hippie kindergarten reassured us that „they know when they‘re ready“, NO THEY DO NOT YOU BASTARDS AND IT‘S NOT YOUR SOFA THAT‘S GETTING PISSED ON EVERY SINGLE DAY.
This rage is something a rich, hardworking parent who has limited time to spend with her child, may well pay to avoid. The same way I (not rich) hire a cleaner once a week because those 4 hours cleaning my home are 4 hours I would not get to spend with my kids.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:52 PM on May 11, 2019 [10 favorites]
It‘s kind of the opposite, filling your days with mutual frustration.
I have two kids, one, who refused to ditch her diapers at 4,5 , eloquently explaining that „they‘re just more practical“. And one who decided she was ready at 2,5 years old, because she wanted to do everything just like her big sister. Reader: She was not ready and it took us two months of multiple puddling a day to give up. Because hippie kindergarten reassured us that „they know when they‘re ready“, NO THEY DO NOT YOU BASTARDS AND IT‘S NOT YOUR SOFA THAT‘S GETTING PISSED ON EVERY SINGLE DAY.
This rage is something a rich, hardworking parent who has limited time to spend with her child, may well pay to avoid. The same way I (not rich) hire a cleaner once a week because those 4 hours cleaning my home are 4 hours I would not get to spend with my kids.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:52 PM on May 11, 2019 [10 favorites]
It's interesting to see 50% of the nice people on this site reading this situation as "Working parents gotta do what they gotta do!" and the other 50% reading it as one of the most egregious possible examples of "FUCK PARENTING. Let the help handle this and I will write a check."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:13 AM on May 12, 2019
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:13 AM on May 12, 2019
Yeah, I definitely feel that the responses in this thread are a lot more about the people making the comments than the people being commented on.
posted by Bugbread at 4:59 AM on May 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Bugbread at 4:59 AM on May 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
I dunno, knowing MeFites' general outlook, I'd say it's 98.7% "rich people suck." If the story were about moms who got relatives to potty train, or communities which came together to do potty training, or the like, I doubt there would be any blowback here. One other parts of the internet, sure, but here I'd say that here's it's almost entirely the money. Commenter X
It's interesting to see 50% of the nice people on this site reading this situation as "Working parents gotta do what they gotta do!" and the other 50% reading it as one of the most egregious possible examples of "FUCK PARENTING. Let the help handle this and I will write a check." Commenter Y
There are 93 comments in this thread before this one. I just did a rough check of how the comments can be broadly categorized, and fewer than 25 comments talk about the expensive of outsourcing potty training. That is, comments that refer to how expensive the outsourcing is. Of those only 5 or 6 are "eat the rich", rich people suck kind of comments. Which is to say, way less than 97.8% or 50%. I mean, c'mon.
The vast majority of comments in this thread are about how outsourcing can be good idea if you can do it; or are neutral and talk about personal experiences with potty training; or are critical about the sexist nature of the article and/or sexist nature of childrearing generally and ask why dads aren't mentioned in the article, etc.; or are poop puns; or are just unrelated. Apart, that is, from the comments I am quoting here.
Yeah, I definitely feel that the responses in this thread are a lot more about the people making the comments than the people being commented on. Commenter X
My friend, this is true for virtually all the responses in every thread on every place here in the cyberspaces, including these three comments. They are the only comments critical of fellow commenters in this thread. I dunno what's up with that, but feel free to cut it out and go elsewhere if you are feeling either pissy or picked on or just need to vent. We have a different thread for that. Thank you.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:55 PM on May 12, 2019 [6 favorites]
It's interesting to see 50% of the nice people on this site reading this situation as "Working parents gotta do what they gotta do!" and the other 50% reading it as one of the most egregious possible examples of "FUCK PARENTING. Let the help handle this and I will write a check." Commenter Y
There are 93 comments in this thread before this one. I just did a rough check of how the comments can be broadly categorized, and fewer than 25 comments talk about the expensive of outsourcing potty training. That is, comments that refer to how expensive the outsourcing is. Of those only 5 or 6 are "eat the rich", rich people suck kind of comments. Which is to say, way less than 97.8% or 50%. I mean, c'mon.
The vast majority of comments in this thread are about how outsourcing can be good idea if you can do it; or are neutral and talk about personal experiences with potty training; or are critical about the sexist nature of the article and/or sexist nature of childrearing generally and ask why dads aren't mentioned in the article, etc.; or are poop puns; or are just unrelated. Apart, that is, from the comments I am quoting here.
Yeah, I definitely feel that the responses in this thread are a lot more about the people making the comments than the people being commented on. Commenter X
My friend, this is true for virtually all the responses in every thread on every place here in the cyberspaces, including these three comments. They are the only comments critical of fellow commenters in this thread. I dunno what's up with that, but feel free to cut it out and go elsewhere if you are feeling either pissy or picked on or just need to vent. We have a different thread for that. Thank you.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:55 PM on May 12, 2019 [6 favorites]
I think it's interesting in the context of the "Wages for Housework" FPP that's currently up (and is newer than this one), because this kind of service is literally how you set the value of a particular traditionally-unpaid service.
Who's to say how much potty training a kid is worth? Well, as it turns out, someone who runs a potty training business, and the answer is $2-3k. Which seems eminently reasonable to me.
But without this, it'd be hard to really say what the value of this service is on the open market, i.e. what the unpaid labor that many people (mostly women) are providing is worth.
I think it's totally fine that some people might choose not to partake of this service, even if they can afford it, because they think it's an Important Life Experience or whatever, but even they now get to do so, informed with the knowledge that the going rate for what they're DIYing is about three grand.
While I am not accusing anyone in particular of anything nefarious, sometimes I think that the pushback against the marketing of domestic services on the paid-labor market (to include nannies, daycare, car services to shuttle older kids around, meal prep companies, cleaning services, etc.) is in part because some people don't want to know, or don't want others to know, the true value of the unpaid services they are providing or are compelled to provide. Because it can get really awkward when someone who isn't paid suddenly realizes the value of what they've been giving away. And in my area, my ROM for what being a full-time parent would cost on the open market is about $75k/year.
posted by Kadin2048 at 4:48 PM on May 12, 2019 [5 favorites]
Who's to say how much potty training a kid is worth? Well, as it turns out, someone who runs a potty training business, and the answer is $2-3k. Which seems eminently reasonable to me.
But without this, it'd be hard to really say what the value of this service is on the open market, i.e. what the unpaid labor that many people (mostly women) are providing is worth.
I think it's totally fine that some people might choose not to partake of this service, even if they can afford it, because they think it's an Important Life Experience or whatever, but even they now get to do so, informed with the knowledge that the going rate for what they're DIYing is about three grand.
While I am not accusing anyone in particular of anything nefarious, sometimes I think that the pushback against the marketing of domestic services on the paid-labor market (to include nannies, daycare, car services to shuttle older kids around, meal prep companies, cleaning services, etc.) is in part because some people don't want to know, or don't want others to know, the true value of the unpaid services they are providing or are compelled to provide. Because it can get really awkward when someone who isn't paid suddenly realizes the value of what they've been giving away. And in my area, my ROM for what being a full-time parent would cost on the open market is about $75k/year.
posted by Kadin2048 at 4:48 PM on May 12, 2019 [5 favorites]
Bella Donna: "There are 93 comments in this thread before this one. I just did a rough check of how the comments can be broadly categorized, and fewer than 25 comments talk about the expensive of outsourcing potty training."
You're right, I double-checked the 67 comments before my own, and it was
Which, I've got to admit, really surprised me. I definitely had the impression that the people who were opposed were almost entirely upset about wealth, but my estimate was way overboard. I suspect it's that the first few anti-potty-training comments were wealth-related, so it colored my views of other comments. For example, when I first read the comment "Rich people have always had maids and nannies and servants and housekeepers and so on, and the object has never been to free up their time so they could diaper their kids themselves." I read it as being critical, but on reread it seems neutral.
posted by Bugbread at 5:23 PM on May 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
You're right, I double-checked the 67 comments before my own, and it was
- 22 comments in favor of this service
- 37 comments that were neutral, or whose position could not be determined
- 9 comments opposed to this service
- 5 opposed to it for reasons related to wealth
- 1 opposed to it for reasons related to parenting
- 3 opposed to it for indeterminable reasons (i.e. it was clear that the commenter was opposed, but not clear why they were opposed)
Which, I've got to admit, really surprised me. I definitely had the impression that the people who were opposed were almost entirely upset about wealth, but my estimate was way overboard. I suspect it's that the first few anti-potty-training comments were wealth-related, so it colored my views of other comments. For example, when I first read the comment "Rich people have always had maids and nannies and servants and housekeepers and so on, and the object has never been to free up their time so they could diaper their kids themselves." I read it as being critical, but on reread it seems neutral.
posted by Bugbread at 5:23 PM on May 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
I considered a boot camp locally. It's $250 for 8 hours with 3 other families. I would happily outsource this project without guilt or regret. The only reason we didn't do it is that our son may not be ready and we don't want to cause medical issues by rushing it. I think families should take advantage of every available opportunity to have more time with their kids to play, love and learn.
posted by crunchy potato at 3:21 PM on May 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by crunchy potato at 3:21 PM on May 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
Echoing what others have said about elimination communication. We did it for both our kids and our older daughter was potty-only for pooping at 9 months. We pushed for full potty training at 18mo, but it was too early and we ended up waiting another year before we tried again. With our younger daughter she started daycare earlier, and without the consistency it didn't happen. Still well worth the effort if you have the resources, IMO.
posted by Lazlo Hollyfeld at 10:32 AM on May 14, 2019
posted by Lazlo Hollyfeld at 10:32 AM on May 14, 2019
I am deeply thankful that my son's childcare provider taught him to tie his shoes. Potty training disn't intimidate me, but shoe-tying? I just couldn't even. Thank you, Anne.
posted by theora55 at 9:29 AM on May 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 9:29 AM on May 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
e to the pi, you and your child deserve masses of compassion.
posted by theora55 at 10:07 AM on May 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 10:07 AM on May 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
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posted by rikschell at 1:36 PM on May 10, 2019 [23 favorites]