2nd Amendment freak-out: Civil War 2, Electric Boogaloo (+ accordion)
January 18, 2020 12:50 PM   Subscribe

Virginia Democrats ran gun control ads in tight state races (The Hill, Sept. 23, 2019) and won the House and Senate (CBS News, Nov. 6, 2019). They pledged to pass a series of standard gun control laws, including universal background checks and bans on military-style “assault weapons” and high-capacity ammunition magazines. Some gun owners, believing conspiracy theories, are talking civil war (The Guardian, Jan. 10, 2020), using an odd term that has been kicking around Reddit since 2018: boogaloo, or big igloo (ADL, Nov. 26, 2019). If this has got you down, check out Frontera Bugalu (Bandcamp), a musical project founded by accordionist and composer Kiko Rodriguez in El Paso, Texas.
posted by filthy light thief (82 comments total) 32 users marked this as a favorite
 
If you want to look back on the origin of "[Something] 2: [Electric] Boogaloo," here's a post for you, and a newer one, with fresher links.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:53 PM on January 18 [5 favorites]


Hah, just yesterday I heard this usage of the term for the first time, in relation to the dickheads arrested in Virginia the other day.
posted by rhizome at 1:02 PM on January 18 [4 favorites]


Attacks on Virginia’s gun safety efforts are irresponsible overreactions (WaPo Editorial Board)
THE GUN lobby’s combustible rhetoric at the prospect that Virginia’s new Democratic legislative majority will push through a handful of firearms safety bills is wildly detached from reality. Tailor-made to stoke furor, it has found an online echo chamber among neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other militant groups planning to join gun advocates at the Capitol in Richmond next Monday for an event that officials worry could reprise the chaos in Charlottesville in 2017. [...]

The hyperbole, amplified by the National Rifle Association, among others, along with expectations of large armed crowds of protesters, prompted Mr. Northam to declare a four-day emergency and ban weapons on the state Capitol grounds, starting Friday. The attempts at intimidation are a reckless overreaction to the legislation likely to emerge from the General Assembly, most of which is similar to laws already in effect elsewhere. [...]

None of the bills likely to become law in Virginia imperil the ability of law-abiding gun owners to purchase, possess or use weapons responsibly. (A state Senate bill that would have authorized confiscation of existing assault-style weapons was discarded last week.) They enjoy solid support among Virginians, as demonstrated by a new poll from the L. Douglas Wilder School of Government and Public Affairs at Virginia Commonwealth University.

In a state that has suffered horribly in recent years from gun violence — including massacres on the campus of Virginia Tech, in 2007, and, last year, at a municipal building in Virginia Beach — attacks on measured legislation to advance safety are wildly irresponsible. Instead of fanning the rhetorical flames, Republicans such as party chairman Jack Wilson, who claimed Democrats intend to promote a “disarmed, vulnerable, and subservient citizenry,” should be working to discourage violence in Richmond.
posted by katra at 1:14 PM on January 18 [14 favorites]


Richmond braces for enormous gun-rights rally Monday (WaPo / reprint)
State and federal officials were preparing for a volatile mix of weapons, passions and anti-government fervor. Central Richmond was braced for road closures and massive police presence.

That was before President Trump decided to weigh in Friday afternoon on Twitter.

“Your 2nd Amendment is under very serious attack in the Great Commonwealth of Virginia,” Trump tweeted. “That’s what happens when you vote for Democrats, they will take your guns away. Republicans will win Virginia in 2020. Thank you Dems!” [...]

One of Richmond’s staunchest gun-rights Republicans, who needled Northam over the ban earlier in the week, closed ranks with the governor after a closed-door briefing on the security threats Friday.

“Any group that comes to Richmond to spread white supremacist garbage, or any other form of hate, violence, or civil unrest isn’t welcome here,” House Minority Leader Todd Gilbert (R-Shenandoah) said in a written statement Saturday. “While we and our Democratic colleagues may have differences, we are all Virginians and we will stand united in opposition to any threats of violence or civil unrest from any quarter.”
posted by katra at 1:25 PM on January 18 [15 favorites]


As a Richmonder with the day off on Monday for MLK day, I am — regrettably — here for this, whether or not shit actually pops off as some predict.
posted by emelenjr at 1:41 PM on January 18 [6 favorites]


Also a Richmonder. However I'm working so I'll be safely ensconced in my home office 9 or 10 miles from downtown. I'm hoping for a whole lotta nothing on Monday.
posted by COD at 1:45 PM on January 18 [4 favorites]


To the extent that gun owners talk a lot about how existing laws-on-the-books need to be enforced, I very much look forward to some arrests of gun owners who deliberately go to the Virginia State Capitol to break those same laws-on-the-books.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:47 PM on January 18 [18 favorites]


The fact that they are having this rally on Martin Luther King Day is not an accident or coincidence. This is another white supremacist rally, just with a different name. It is really frustrating that the press seems to be ignoring/not recognizing this.
posted by hydropsyche at 1:49 PM on January 18 [116 favorites]


JJ MacNab has put together a good series of tweets on the background for Monday's rally (Threadreader). In addition, she has started a Twitter list for live coverage.
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:52 PM on January 18 [6 favorites]


in relation to the dickheads arrested in Virginia the other day

One of said dickheads is a former Canadian reservist from Manitoba whose house was searched in August 2019, then went missing. This is being reported as a “can't possibly happen here” story in Canada.

Yes, Canada, it absolutely fucking can happen here.
posted by scruss at 2:11 PM on January 18 [22 favorites]


Gun-rights activists gear up for show of force in Virginia (AP)
Democrats have permanently banned guns inside the Capitol, and Gov. Ralph Northam declared a temporary state of emergency Wednesday that bans all weapons, including guns, from Capitol Square, during the rally to prevent “armed militia groups storming our Capitol.” Gun-rights groups asked the Virginia Supreme Court to rule Northam’s declaration unconstitutional, but the court on Friday upheld the ban.

Northam said there were credible threats of violence - like weaponized drones being deployed over Capitol Square. On Friday, the FAA issued a temporary flight restriction, including for drones, over Capitol airspace during the rally.

The governor said some of the rhetoric used by groups planning to attend Monday’s rally is reminiscent of that used ahead of the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville in August 2017. One woman was killed and more than 30 other people were hurt when a white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of counter protesters there.
posted by katra at 2:23 PM on January 18 [4 favorites]


i'm forced to conclude that many of these people who are showing up monday want a civil war - why else do they keep warning us of it?
posted by pyramid termite at 2:30 PM on January 18 [16 favorites]


Be safe, emelenjr and COD.
posted by doctornemo at 2:46 PM on January 18 [3 favorites]


We just moved to Virginia last year. Lots to learn.
posted by doctornemo at 2:47 PM on January 18 [1 favorite]


Pro-gun activists threaten to kill state lawmaker over bill they misunderstood. This level of ignorance makes the situation even scarier. The bill in question has nothing to do with guns or gun rights.
posted by Botanizer at 2:50 PM on January 18 [16 favorites]


The desire to see the world burn is not so uncommon; I see it here even on the blue. An ancient philosopher wrote a song about it.
posted by sjswitzer at 2:50 PM on January 18 [2 favorites]


This isn't world burn, this is holy war. If the world burns, it burns.
posted by aleph at 3:07 PM on January 18


i'm forced to conclude that many of these people who are showing up monday want a civil war - why else do they keep warning us of it?

Civil war, race war, christian jihad, take your pick. It all boils down to butthurt right-wing whites who are tired of sharing their world with others.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:20 PM on January 18 [32 favorites]


Pro-gun activists threaten to kill state lawmaker over bill they misunderstood. This level of ignorance makes the situation even scarier.

As a leftist member of the Socialist Rifle Association, Lee Carter is probably the most pro-gun Democrat in the state, but this is really the opposite of ignorance. It's no coincidence that it's him in the crosshairs. The entire Boogaloo subculture is testament to right-libertarianism as a vehicle for fascism: the Left is the target here, as much or more so than the state government as a whole. Don't confuse a manipulated proto-Freikorps with ignorance.

Charlottesville comparisons really understate the scope and scale of Boogalooers. This is a triple alliance between

(1) the "pro-cop libertarians." Second Amendment guys. Don't Tread On Me boomers. Blue Lives Matter punisher skull decal uncles. Soft fascists, in other words. We're all familiar with these. Curiously, on the subject of trying to start a civil war in VA, they're more than happy to work with

(2) the "anti-cop libertarians." Dumb young white men who are faintly toxic and reactionary but lack a real political ideology or class consciousness, having grown up in the education system and culture of the american midwest in the early 2000s. These are the people who provide much of the online boogaloo cultural products. They like to "joke" about killing cops and FBI/ATF/DEA agents (see "alphabet boi" memes). Despite personally not sharing or supporting literal nazi propaganda, they mostly stay silent when it's spread by

(3) overt doctrinaire fascists and white nationalists up to and including The Base and Atomwaffen, whose participation and contribution has been eagerly embraced by both the other factions and who will be marching arm-in-arm with them come Monday.

Whether or not it has many members committed enough to take action, this is an enormous movement. It wouldn't surprise me if over ten million Americans have engaged in this phenomenon on social media. Hopefully nothing terrible happens on Monday. I have no idea what to expect.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:21 PM on January 18 [55 favorites]


Armed Militias Are Taking Trump’s Civil War Tweets Seriously (Mary B. McCord, Lawfare, Oct. 2, 2019)
It might seem tempting to dismiss this language as of a piece with President Trump’s typical Twitter rhetoric. But it is worth paying particular attention to this tweet—because among the people who read it were militia groups enthusiastic about exactly what Trump portended. And while no violence has yet resulted from the president’s tweet, it would be foolish to underestimate the power of Trump’s comments to call rogue militias to action, particularly if there is an impeachment and he continues to use this rhetoric to fan the flames. [...]

Some observers may say that the tweets of both the president and the Oath Keepers are simply hyperbole. But the militia movement has shown that it will take action based on the president’s statements. His “civil war” comments were phrased conditionally—dependent on “the Democrats” attempting to remove him from office. State officials and law enforcement, however, do not have to wait for that condition to be fulfilled—or for the president to post new tweets that militias may interpret as calling them to arms—to tackle the potential threat posed by militias.
posted by katra at 3:37 PM on January 18 [6 favorites]


It’s “interesting” (I use that word lightly and only for lack of a better one) how the meme of the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment, and the idea of “fighting against tyranny”, has morphed into such a gigantic movement that is actually about fascist ideology against a majority of people by a well-armed and powerful minority. These people can’t stand the idea of cultural changes, the gaining of rights by oppressed and marginalized groups, and a legal framework that seeks to protect women and children (of all groups) from deranged killers versus one that subjugates them to men with rifles and constant surveillance.

You can get deep into leftist ideologies that believe in community self-defense as well as community resources for mental health, economic equity for all groups, and political equity, etc., which require holistic approaches to the way power works in, amongst, and between groups of people within capitalist systems and hierarchies, but these people aren’t down with that. Somewhere inside these people is certainly a fear of losing what they perceive as power to people who are gaining more power, when actually, no matter what, they are powerless, and in certain realms of power are powerless just as much as anyone when you put them up against moneyed interests in politics and of corporations (which are basically one and the same).

A lot of these people are flailing at their perceived loss of power, but what’s also “interesting” is that they seem to hitch their wagons to a future guarantee of power, as if if their guys remain in power, they will also remain in power or even gain more power. Inside maybe a sociological framework of privilege and other concepts that’s true, but they’ll never have actual power. They’re always going to be fucked, at the lower echelons of society.

These ideations of another civil war are dangerous and I think also are a form of asserting their beliefs of future-power they believe they’re guaranteed. But the civil war has been happening for decades. These types spent the 90’s bombing federal buildings and abortion clinics, assassinating and harassing doctors and activists, and doxxing anyone they could (and releasing the information in newsgroups and email newsletters). They killed and maimed women and children in a multi-decade long terrorism campaign. How is that not a civil war? While I guess “the left” was hooked on ecological problems and economic/neoliberal drudgery, these people basically ran roughshod in a bloody terrorist campaign (this isn’t a critique of “the left”).
posted by gucci mane at 3:49 PM on January 18 [28 favorites]


The thing that seriously concerns me is that these “civil war” cretins enjoy quite a bit of support amongst law enforcement and the military rank-and-file, who are the ones who are supposedly in-charge of deterring these people. Heck, many of them are In law enforcement and the military.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:10 PM on January 18 [29 favorites]


It is really frustrating that the press seems to be ignoring/not recognizing this.

Wow. Yes, it is being ignored; I've read a number of articles talking about all sorts of details about the protests and the response, and not one mentioned this detail.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:12 PM on January 18 [5 favorites]


Heck, many of them are In law enforcement and the military.

Military Armored Personnel Carrier stenciled with "Boogaloo Bus"
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:18 PM on January 18 [12 favorites]


Just some of the source material to provide context.

Art. I, Section 8, Clause 16:
Clause 16. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.
(emphasis mine)

Amendment 2:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
(emphasis mine)
posted by mikelieman at 4:21 PM on January 18 [14 favorites]


Also a Richmonder. Day off Monday, not planning on going anywhere near the Capitol. Presumably back to work the next day at my library, however, which isn’t all that far away. Even odds something goes down and we (university with campuses nearby) are closed for some period of time.

Some of the local antifa are simply saying to stay home, no concerted action planned. I hate the thought of angry gunner mobs having free license to come to my city and shut everything down... but I really hope people do stay home.

Guns in the square would be bad, particularly in the drag-the-politicians-out-and-shoot-them way that has been suggested online. As it is, there’s going to be a square of guns *around* the square... and people live and work there or quite nearby. Many are black. Richmond is not Charlottesville — the city is heavily af-am, historically and today. I shudder to think of the possibilities, though I am holding out hope that (particularly given the location) security will be sufficient.

I am concerned about the white supremacist/accelerationist garbage coming to town. I am... disquieted by some of the irritation I’ve seen from local friends lately. Some folks buying more guns, others genuinely angry abt govt taking their guns, others [black] tired of all the racist hoohah that may lead some POCs not to feel welcome as gun owners at such an event. Most of my friends are in favor of strengthened gun safety reqs (as am I), but the response to this is wildly disproportionate.

And yeah, another one in the “MLK Day? Really?” crowd.
posted by cupcakeninja at 4:46 PM on January 18 [15 favorites]


The thing that gets me is that "cold dead hands" 2nd Amendment hardliners are indirectly threatening to shoot police. Gun nuts consistently say a defense against tyranny is why they need the guns, and that gun control is a form of that tyranny.

But who do they think is going to come for their guns, from whom they're going to have to defend their perceived rights? It's not going to be a roving band of Democrats led by Jerry Brown. It will be law enforcement.
posted by rhizome at 4:48 PM on January 18 [13 favorites]


The cognitive dissonance in being a 2nd Amendment gun nut...

I don't trust anyone carrying a gun.
posted by Windopaene at 5:09 PM on January 18 [14 favorites]


FTFA:
Northam said there were credible threats of violence - like weaponized drones being deployed over Capitol Square.
Is there anything that law enforcement can actually do against those? Ram them with another drone, or drop a net on them or something? Is there jamming?
posted by wenestvedt at 5:18 PM on January 18 [1 favorite]


I don't trust anyone carrying a gun.

I can understand situations that would tend to promote someone wanting to be armed (like a Sheriff advised a friend of mine who lived way out in the country to arm herself when she got a restraining order, because it could take so long to respond to 911 there) but the thing that bothers me is how many people seem to spend great energy in daydreaming about getting to kill someone with their gun in some legally justified way, like that would be the greatest day of their life. To me, it seems like a normal person could do that if they really had no choice, but it would probably be a disaster of PTSD and moral horror that would haunt them for the rest of their days.
posted by thelonius at 5:19 PM on January 18 [33 favorites]


As a leftist member of the Socialist Rifle Association

how does it feel to know beyond a certainty of a doubt that you are on a list? and how obvious is the undercover leo?
posted by entropicamericana at 5:26 PM on January 18 [10 favorites]


There is a sincere belief on the hard right that by stockpiling firearms they are protecting the liberty of the american people, that if they didn't have their guns there would be an instantaneous crackdown on the people and their liberty would be lost. This belief, in a word, is insane. And sadly there is no more chance of disabusing anyone who believes this stuff of that notion than there is of selling MAGA hats at a Fugazi concert. It seems utterly intractable to me.
posted by hilberseimer at 5:34 PM on January 18 [13 favorites]


how does it feel to know beyond a certainty of a doubt that you are on a list? and how obvious is the undercover leo?

That was a reference to Carter being an SRA member, or at least expressing solidarity with them (honestly I forget which). I don't think Carter has to worry about any specific list, since he's probably on all of them.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:38 PM on January 18 [2 favorites]


A comment on a friend of a friend's Facebook page yesterday:
what is happening in Virginia is exactly what the Founding Fathers anticipated would happen in the face of extrem tyranny and why they gave us the Second Amendment. The people of Virginia would be absolutely justified in taking out these egotistical morons and the Governor knows it. Thus the ban. I am not wishing ill on anyone but I will not be surprised if there is not one or more deaths before this is over.
posted by doctornemo at 6:00 PM on January 18 [1 favorite]


That’s a very common but very incorrect interpretation of the constitution ugh people.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 6:06 PM on January 18 [4 favorites]




So, the gun ownership rate in Virginia is 29.3% - very close to the national average.

And, most of those support reasonable common-sense gun ownership ideas like the kinds proposed in Virginia.

Of the rest, some don't like anything resembling gun control but aren't going to get all the hot and bothered about it.

The nitwits who are organizing and mumbling ominous threats under their breath and getting all fire-breathing about it are--at most!--maybe 20% of gun owners.

So that is a lot of people in one sense--20% "ominous mumblers" of the ~30% of the population that owns a gun makes 6% of Virginia's population, around 500,000 people.

This set of 500,000 people is all worked up, getting together and working each other up, and joining groups and blah-blah-blah like mad. It's enough to make quite a bit of noise and fuss.

Which is fine--that is how democracy works, as long as it is talking and organizing, not brandishing weapons and threatening insurrection (which is how democracy is destroyed, not how it works).

Anyway it is fine for this 6% of the population to get all worked up and make their voice heard, but the remaining 94% of us shouldn't let them dictate the terms of the debate, the debate, or the outcome of the debate.

This is a small but vocal minority.

A "special interest" as we call it.

Listen to them, ignore, and proceed with rational and well thought out improvements to current gun law.

If they're dumb enough to actually start some kind of insurrection, arrest them and throw them in prison for 20 years as we do with all common criminals and traitors.
posted by flug at 6:49 PM on January 18 [16 favorites]


By the way, I'm not kidding when I talk about traitors and treason.

Typical definitions of treason are something like "attempting by force of arms or other violent means to overthrow the organs of government established by the Constitution", "armed insurrection against the power of the State", "armed rebellion", "participation in armed bands", "levying War", etc.

Don't like being called a treasonous traitor?

Simple solution: Don't participate in or encourage treasonous behavior.
posted by flug at 6:50 PM on January 18 [16 favorites]


Is there anything that law enforcement can actually do against those? Ram them with another drone, or drop a net on them or something? Is there jamming?

Raytheon's got you covered, with "effector" options including Jamming, Counter-UAs drones ( the Coyote ), and Stinger missiles
posted by mikelieman at 6:55 PM on January 18 [3 favorites]


The nitwits who are organizing and mumbling ominous threats under their breath and getting all fire-breathing about it are--at most!--maybe 20% of gun owners.

I would be very surprised if it was anything close to 20% of gun owners. I would guess more like 2%, or even less, who are actually "organizing and mumbling ominous threats," with significantly more who are vaguely sympathetic to the cause but aren't ever going to do anything more than have opinions.

One of the things the far right has been doing extremely well in recent years is amplifying their voice and making small numbers seem much more powerful. (The left has mostly done the reverse, bringing out massive numbers of people [eg the women's marches] without translating that into the same kind of social force.)
posted by Dip Flash at 7:28 PM on January 18 [13 favorites]


Thanks for making this post, filthy light thief. I'd thought about doing one, but decided against it. (I live in Charlottesville and used to live in Richmond.)
posted by nangar at 7:36 PM on January 18 [2 favorites]


Dip Flash: One of the things the far right has been doing extremely well in recent years is amplifying their voice and making small numbers seem much more powerful.

And bringing together those who have the means, the money, and the will to aggregate into angry mobs from around the country. Just like in Charlottesville, I imagine people who are rallying in Virginia won't all be Virginians, or even from the east coast. The chance to meet like-minded far-right gun nuts and rally against "life under a distant tycoon's thumb" (NRA's language, post-Virginia Democrats victory, thanks in part to Bloomberg's gun control group outspending the NRA in Virginia).

For all the foaming "right to bear arms," being a gun fanatic is an expensive hobby (Quora response to the cost of guns in the U.S., 2019). If this was such a "right," you'd think the NRA would want the government to support their expensive hobby and make it more affordable to the general public. You know, like if it were really a right.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:24 PM on January 18 [9 favorites]


> Is there anything that law enforcement can actually do against those? Ram them with another drone, or drop a net on them or something? Is there jamming?

Mostly jamming. There are a few companies selling antidrone tech. I've interviewed the heads of a few of them before. The most credible ones build databases of common drones and, yeah, mostly jam the remote control frequencies they use which makes most commercial drones land out of caution.
Occasionally they send transmissions telling them to land. I think this only works against a minority of models, but they include it as a feature because it sounds clever and sexy.

My impression is this is fine against idiots trying to disrupt flights at an airport with their $250drones from Amazon or whatever. I'm not sure anyone really has a handle on how to deal with something more sophisticated, like a custom coded drone with a preprogrammed flight plan and no sense of caution. So far we've been safe but at some point we're going to be lecturing the Terminator about Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics.

I'm sure there are procedures with nets and dogfighting, but those haven't been tested in real scenarios.

Keep in mind there have been drone flotillas over Colorado and nearby states for a month and nobody from the FAA or local police seems to have any clue who operates them.
posted by smelendez at 1:43 AM on January 19 [19 favorites]



Is there anything that law enforcement can actually do against those? Ram them with another drone, or drop a net on them or something? Is there jamming?

Raytheon's got you covered, with "effector" options including Jamming, Counter-UAs drones ( the Coyote ), and Stinger missiles


custom drone cost to "malicious" actor :~ $1k

anti-drone tech cost: setup ~$20M, + $50k per drone to take out

real cost: your democracy and rights!

just wait till someone does something clever (i.e. horrendous) with a drone. every police dept. and school board will be giving raytheon and its like billions.
posted by lalochezia at 5:40 AM on January 19 [8 favorites]


Are spree shooters participating in "boogaloo" ?
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 5:43 AM on January 19 [1 favorite]


For all the foaming "right to bear arms," being a gun fanatic is an expensive hobby (Quora response to the cost of guns in the U.S., 2019). If this was such a "right," you'd think the NRA would want the government to support their expensive hobby and make it more affordable to the general public. You know, like if it were really a right.

It's expensive if you are a fully fanatic hoarder, or if you are a collector who likes rare and valuable items. But otherwise it is ridiculously cheap compared to, say, consumer electronics, or liking expensive alcohol. For the price of an Apple watch or a couple bottles of fancy scotch you could buy two or three good quality firearms that will, with very minimal upkeep, remain in good working condition for generations. As hobbies go, it's about as democratic (in the sense of accessible) as it gets.

There's a lot to criticize about gun culture and the disgusting pro-gun organizations like the NRA, but cost isn't one of them. Personally I think guns (and ammunition) should be made much more expensive through taxes and licensing costs, so as to a) internalize some of the externalities, and b) make ownership a more thoughtful and deliberate (ie, rare) expenditure. But good luck with that in the current political environment, where the racist wackjobs are getting support from mainstream politicians, including the president himself, in search of short-term political gain.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:51 AM on January 19 [2 favorites]


real cost: your democracy and rights!

The real cost of what? Anti-drone tech? Democracy doesn't depend on unregulated drone ownership or operation...
posted by Dysk at 5:53 AM on January 19


The real cost of what? Anti-drone tech? Democracy doesn't depend on unregulated drone ownership or operation...

I think they're talking about the continuing support of the military-industrial complex which has extreme and perverse incentives to regulate the status quo by any means necessary.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:59 AM on January 19 [8 favorites]


Just popping in to mention that a lot of the same lunatics who think their rights are being taken away and are there protesting literally also think that if there is a mass shooting on Monday that it is 100% a false flag to vilify them.

I shit you not, these conversations have been happening for almost a month on /r/conspiracy on reddit. They're convinced that any violence on Monday is a false flag aimed at taking their guns away.

It's fucking insane. It's like a self-fulfilling conspiracy theory.
posted by deadaluspark at 7:01 AM on January 19 [16 favorites]


Christ. That's it... If the right is now taking away my ability to say "CCPA 2: Electric Boogaloo" as a jokey oh-my-god-why-isn't-this-nonsense-over kind of statement and may now be misinterpreted by folks as a potential dog whistle for idiots... I'm frickin' gobsmacked. I've had it.

No. They don't get to steal and co-opt the one phrase that made stupid sequels funny. No. This boogaloo phrase does not get to be abdicated by the left and stolen by the right. You want to be misinterpreted as an tower? Start referring to language that they use as their language and their dog-whistles and demonize the usage in polite company.
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:08 AM on January 19 [8 favorites]


taking away my ability

Nobody's taking away anything. If you want to keep using the word "boogaloo" to make silly jokes, you can still do that. But words can have multiple meanings, and now "boogaloo" has the meaning "hypothetical Second American Civil War prophecied by gun owners". You can keep using the word if you want, but "they" totally get to use the phrase how "they" want. Boogaloo IS part of "their" language now, in additional to being part of the Dad Joke Lexicon.
posted by 23skidoo at 7:27 AM on January 19 [4 favorites]


I really wonder if anyone involved with the white-supremacist terrorist organization calling itself "The Base" is aware that "The Base" is just "Al Qaeda" translated into English?
posted by heatherlogan at 7:48 AM on January 19 [13 favorites]


They are. It's on purpose. They think that they are the good guys in an epic supernatural showdown of good and evil.
posted by Scattercat at 7:54 AM on January 19 [5 favorites]


I really wonder if anyone involved with the white-supremacist terrorist organization calling itself "The Base" is aware that "The Base" is just "Al Qaeda" translated into English?

Far-right solidarity transcends religion.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:57 AM on January 19 [12 favorites]


What to Know About the Virginia Gun Rally (NYT)
Discussions about the rally have been lighting up online platforms frequented by anti-government militia groups and white supremacists for weeks, and various extremist groups have vowed to attend. [...]

Experts on extremism believe the groups want to co-opt the rally in an effort to fuel a race war. For example, extremists are calling Monday’s rally the “boogaloo,” which in the language of white supremacists is an event that will accelerate such a war. [...]

The Base is a white extremist, antigovernment group that aims to establish a white “ethno-state.” The F.B.I. has grown increasingly concerned about the Base as it has worked to recruit more people. The group encourages the onset of anarchy, according to the Counter Extremism Project, an organization that tracks far-right extremists. Experts say that its founder, an American, appears to be living in Russia.

Former law enforcement officials say the Base and a similar group known as Atomwaffen have become priorities for the F.B.I. [...]

The state of emergency is scheduled to begin Friday at 5 p.m. and extend through Tuesday.
posted by katra at 9:22 AM on January 19 [5 favorites]


Richmonder here. A good friend of mine works in the Capitol. At work I was warned not to drive my normal route home.

It seems like every day a new place gets rocked by major nationwide-newsworthy tragedy. So far it hasn't been my city, but it's never your city until it's your city.

I hear gunfire practically every night. It doesn't even make me nervous anymore. These people coming here? make me nervous.
posted by captain afab at 10:26 AM on January 19 [8 favorites]


I have to work tomorrow but not downtown. Praying everyone who has to work there tomorrow is safe.

I'm proud of our activist community for not taking the bait. I hope everyone stays home. Counterprotest is what the nazis want.
posted by captain afab at 10:35 AM on January 19 [5 favorites]


I'm not sure that I agree with that wholeheartedly. Opportunities to escalate violence is what the Nazis want, and the presence of counterprotesters can give them more opportunities, but counterprotest can take many forms.

Not much is more demoralizing for Neo-Nazis holding a Major Rally than being outnumbered 15-to-1. Or being followed by groups of clowns who chant "White flour!" and throw flour in the air whenever they hear the words "White power." Or feeling badly outnumbered and meaningless instead of being part of a strong invading force.

I'm of the Mel Brooks school; the most potent weapon against fascism can be ridicule, puncturing its foundation. But this is a potentially dangerous situation, and Jello's Riot Theory applies: there's more of us, but who goes first? So it's a matter of tactical opposition: either go all-in as a community or stay home, safe and warm and let them yell at empty air.
posted by delfin at 11:19 AM on January 19 [6 favorites]


Not much is more demoralizing for Neo-Nazis holding a Major Rally than being outnumbered 15-to-1.

they plan to be armed and there's going to be hundreds - i think it's a good idea to pass on this one
posted by pyramid termite at 12:09 PM on January 19 [5 favorites]


I think they're talking about the continuing support of the military-industrial complex which has extreme and perverse incentives to regulate the status quo by any means necessary.

The cousin of a good friend of mine is a Navy chief (he drives those hovercraft things that are kind of the modern analog of the boats that put men on the beach at Normandy, except now they can fit tanks and whatnot) and when he's deployed off the coast of Japan or whatever, the ship he's on just spends all day shooting down drones from rich dudes (gotta be rich if you are just going to fly your DJI Phantom or whatever out to sea to have it lit up by the USN, those things cost like $2k). Since they are at sea, they prob just point a deck gun and take them out. However, on land, you can't just whip out the .50cal every time a drone gets too close, and that's when the Raytheon stuff comes in.
posted by sideshow at 1:02 PM on January 19 [2 favorites]


We just moved to Virginia last year. Lots to learn.

I grew up in Virginia and moved to California in 1995. Virginia's a good place to be from. Proud that they ratified the ERA, though.

And yeah, another one in the “MLK Day? Really?” crowd.

Reminder that it was [Robert E.] Lee-["Stonewall"] Jackson-King Day from 1984 until 2000, and Lee-Jackson-Day is still a state holiday the Friday before MLK Day.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:07 PM on January 19 [9 favorites]


Is there anything that law enforcement can actually do against those? Ram them with another drone, or drop a net on them or something? Is there jamming?

I think falconry needs to make a comeback.
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:00 PM on January 19 [11 favorites]


Since they are at sea, they prob just point a deck gun and take them out. However, on land, you can't just whip out the .50cal every time a drone gets too close, and that's when the Raytheon stuff comes in.

I expect that Interesting Things happen if you point a fire-control radar at a civilian drone and turn the knob up to 11.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:41 PM on January 19 [9 favorites]


Interesting Things happen if you point a fire-control radar at a civilian drone and turn the knob up to 11.

Thanks so much for this, it's some William Gibson-level shit and I need more of it.
posted by valkane at 3:28 PM on January 19 [5 favorites]


"I think falconry needs to make a comeback"

Happening: "Dutch police fight drones with eagles"
posted by aleph at 3:57 PM on January 19 [9 favorites]


Are spree shooters participating in "boogaloo" ?

They’re a warm-up act, yeah.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:32 PM on January 19 [2 favorites]


So, the co-opting of Boogaloo was not a thing I knew about. I swear, nazis ruin everything. I was going to post something about it on twitter, and then thought...I should probably check that hashtag, and I did, and it's nuts y'all.

This person: Conspirador Norteño, did a breakdown of the hashtag and related tags, and it's kinda scary.

So, having been chased off the internet once by Gaters, I decided that making a snide remark about nazis probably wasn't worth drawing the attention of the hive of scum and villainy.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:44 PM on January 19 [6 favorites]


The Virginia Mercury is doing a liveblog of the day's events.
posted by mmiddle at 5:54 AM on January 20 [6 favorites]


I should clarify- they don't always want counterprotesters. (Or they don't always want counterprotesters, I guess?) But on a day they want to begin a race war, I bet they're hoping we come out in force so they can "accidentally" start a riot and blame it on us. To paraphrase a certain Admiral, it is a trap.
posted by captain afab at 7:38 AM on January 20 [4 favorites]


Virginia pro-gun rally draws crowds amid fears of violence (AFP/Yahoo)
Several thousand gun rights supporters massed near the Virginia state capitol Monday for a rally under heavy surveillance and a state of emergency declared by authorities fearing violence by far-right groups. [...] Many more gathered in the streets surrounding the Capitol building, some bearing sidearms or long guns, which is permitted outside the designated rally area.

They carried US and Virginia state flags and a huge banner emblazoned with the image of an assault rifle and the legend: "Come and Take It."

[...] Many of those massing near Capitol Square wore "Trump 2020" or "Make America Great Again" hats in support of the conservative president. Some chanted "four more years" or "USA, USA."
posted by katra at 10:26 AM on January 20


Virginia gun rally live updates: Speakers praise Trump, denounce Northam as massive rally unfolds peacefully (WaPo)
Despite massive rally attendance, polls show overwhelming support for gun-control legislation in Virginia

The majority of Virginia voters favor Democratic proposals to limit gun access, a Washington Post-Schar School poll found in October. Three out of four voters view gun policy as a “very important” issue, the poll found, and majorities agree with suggested legislation that would ban assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips, and limit gun purchases to one per month.

Also drawing overwhelming support were policies that would expand background checks (88 percent of surveyed Virginians approved), as well as “red flag” legislation that would grant local government the power to remove weapons from someone deemed a danger (82 percent approved).

That support cut across party lines: More than 80 percent of Democrats, independents and Republicans indicated support for enhanced background checks, while more than 70 percent of each group also said they support red flag laws.

Overall, 58 percent of Virginia respondents reported desiring stricter gun laws statewide — roughly similar to the share of state residents who said they favored stronger gun legislation in Post polls from 2007 to 2016.

The Washington Post-Schar School poll was conducted Sept. 25-30 among a random sample of 876 Virginia adults, with a sampling error of plus or minus five percentage points.
posted by katra at 10:33 AM on January 20 [7 favorites]


I really wonder if anyone involved with the white-supremacist terrorist organization calling itself "The Base" is aware that "The Base" is just "Al Qaeda" translated into English?

Oh I am pretty sure Steve Bannon knew that and it is part of his nothing-means-anything shit-flood strategy (I have no reason to believe he named them but also no reason not to!).
posted by srboisvert at 2:00 PM on January 20 [2 favorites]


Mannnn. They took the okay symbol. They took "boogaloo". I'm not giving up the Vulcan hand thing, just putting that out there. Taking it, cold dead hands, etc., etc.
posted by pelvicsorcery at 6:32 PM on January 20 [5 favorites]


It's originally the rabbinical benediction- so it's most likely safe as it's a (((Jew thing.)))
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:15 PM on January 20 [2 favorites]


Called my VA state reps (both Dems) to let them know I supported their backing of commonsense gun regulations legislation. I also thanked the staffers who took my calls for their courage today and they really were so grateful. Recommend a quick call to your state reps - takes less than two minutes a call and they deserve to know we got their backs as their constituents who support these laws.
posted by longdaysjourney at 9:46 PM on January 20 [5 favorites]


Richmond Gun Rally: Thousands Of Gun Owners Converge On Virginia Capitol On MLK Day (NPR recap)
Thousands of gun ownership enthusiasts and armed militia members gathered at the Virginia State Capitol Monday for a rally aimed at quashing new gun restrictions. The rally ended peacefully, but the city of Richmond remains under a state of emergency and Gov. Ralph Northam's temporary ban on weapons on Capitol grounds will remain in place until Tuesday.

An estimated 22,000 people attended the demonstration, according to the Virginia Joint Information Center, which says roughly 6,000 people were on Capitol Square and another 16,000 outside the gated barricades.

Police made only one arrest at the rally — a woman was arrested on a "felony count of wearing a mask in public," according to the state information center. An officer arrested 21-year-old Mikaela E. Beschler after twice warning her not to wear a bandanna covering her face.

The Richmond gun rally drew a wide range of people, from staunch believers that the Second Amendment guarantees wide access to guns to those who say gun rights should have limits — and religious leaders who called for peace.
...
"At least two county sheriffs have spoken at this gun rights rally in Richmond," NPR's Sarah McCammon reports via Twitter. She adds that Sheriff Scott Jenkins of Culpeper County "says he will deputize 'thousands' of gun owners" if Virginia enacts new gun restrictions.
What is the intention there, to allow them to carry banned weapons, should the state restrict some fire arms?
"At least two county sheriffs have spoken at this gun rights rally in Richmond," NPR's Sarah McCammon reports via Twitter. She adds that Sheriff Scott Jenkins of Culpeper County "says he will deputize 'thousands' of gun owners" if Virginia enacts new gun restrictions.
...
Right-wing media outlets were also a notable presence. Breitbart produced a livestream of video from the event, and InfoWars' Alex Jones rode parade-style in a Terradyne armored vehicle, popping out of the top hatch to address the crowd through a microphone.
...
Vendors also descended on the city, setting up tables and portable racks to sell pro-Trump T-shirts and pro-gun paraphernalia.
Grifters gonna grift.

And plenty of people with messages of "come and take it," which makes me want to ask if their guns are for sale, or if they're just giving them away.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:23 PM on January 20


Also, no mention of race in that NPR article, but their pictures made it seem like a very white crowd.

I'm glad there was no violence there today, and I hope the armed masses disperse and the elected officials can proceed to reflect the will of their state and pass gun control laws, so that others can follow more easily.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:28 PM on January 20


Mannnn. They took the okay symbol. They took "boogaloo".

No, they didn't.

The "OK symbol is now white power!" was a chan shitpost that got amplified by clickbait sites to make hay out of nothing.

If, tomorrow, you see someone having a hard time parallel parking, you stop and help wave them in, when they're parked, you signal "OK" no one is gonna think you're trying to recruit for a klan ralley.

"~X~ 2: Electric Boogaloo" has been a meme since the second breaking movie 35+ years ago.

Just because someone makes a common reference doesn't meant they've taken something away from you.

If someone on the internet said "I'm a white supremecist and I love the simpsons", would that mean all of the simpsons were taken away from you?

What if vice, vox and buzzfeed all had thinkpieces about how "the simpsons is now a white supremecist signal!"?
posted by lkc at 11:14 PM on January 20 [5 favorites]


Not brand-new news, but pretty fresh: Virginia Senate passes set of 3 gun bills (WHSV, Updated: Fri 3:18 PM, Jan 17, 2020)
Earlier this week, the Senate Judiciary Committee made waves by killing controversial Senate Bill 16 (WHSV), which would have re-defined and banned assault bills, while passing several other gun bills.

On Thursday, the full Virginia Senate passed those bills as well.

The bills which have passed in the Senate

First is SB 70 (LIS.Virginia.Gov), which would establish mandatory background checks for any transfer of firearms, including private sales. That bill, amid the priorities outlined in Gov. Northam's agenda for the 2020 session (WHSV), passed the Senate on 23-17 vote, with two Republicans joining Democrats to support it.

It exempts transfers between immediate family members and by estate administrators, as well as transfers during lawful activities at shooting ranges or similar spaces designed for target practice. It also exempts temporary transfers that occur while the owner is present or are necessary to prevent death or bodily harm. Additionally, it allows transfers of antique firearms, transfers that are part of a buy-back or give-back program and those that occur by operation of law.

Also passed by the full Senate were SB 69 and SB 35 (LIS.Virginia.Gov x2).

Senate Bill 69 would institute a "one gun a month" law for Virginia limiting citizens to one handgun purchase within any 30-day period.

It exempts those with valid Virginia concealed handgun permits and those replacing a lost or stolen handgun, as well as law enforcement agencies, state and local correctional facilities, private security companies and those with special circumstances with a background check from Virginia State Police. It also exempts purchases made during a private sale for a personal collection of rare or historical items.

Virginia used to have a version of the same law, so it would essentially restore the commonwealth's previous rule. It passed on 21-19 vote along party lines.

Senate Bill 35 gives local governments the authority to ban the possession of firearms in public spaces during events which require a permit, like protests. It passed on a 21-19 party line vote as well.
...
Other proposed gun bills, including SB 240 (LIS.Virginia.Gov), which would establish "red flag laws" (removal from persons posing substantial risk) and was passed by the Senate Judiciary Committee, were passed by for the day on Thursday. SB 240 was passed by on Friday as well.
...
As far as gun laws up for debate in the House of Delegates, like HB 961 (LIS.Virginia.Gov), which shares a lot of similarities to the now-dead SB 16 'assault weapon' ban, none have yet advanced to the full House floor. HB 961 remains in the Committee on Public Safety, which has not discussed it yet.
So these were passed before the Scared White People With Guns Rally, and none of them would take away their guns. Well, there's SB 240:
Creates a procedure by which any attorney for the Commonwealth or any law-enforcement officer may apply to a general district court, circuit court, or juvenile and domestic relations district court judge or magistrate for an emergency substantial risk order to prohibit a person who poses a substantial risk of injury to himself or others from purchasing, possessing, or transporting a firearm. If an emergency substantial risk order is issued, a judge or magistrate may issue a search warrant to remove firearms from such person. An emergency substantial risk order shall expire on the fourteenth day following issuance of the order.
That's right -- if you're considered a danger to yourself or others, and the procedure is carried out before you shoot people, police could take your guns for two weeks.

Unless you've been deputized*, I guess. But there's time for the House of Delegates to work in language to counter the potential for a "guns rights over human safety" sheriffs from overstepping their authority, before the language of the bills is aligned, then sent to Gov. Ralph Northam for his signature.

The WHSV article also notes that some jurisdictions are considering becoming "Second Amendment Sanctuaries" or "Constitution Cities." "To counter possible gun control laws, the concept of becoming a 'Second Amendment sanctuary' means that a county expresses its intent that its public funds not be used to restrict Second Amendment rights."

* Looking at the people carrying ridiculous guns in Virginia yesterday made me think "I don't want any of them stepping up as "deputies" in an emergency." They don't stir confidence in a measured and cautious response to an incident.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:17 PM on January 21 [2 favorites]


Va. House committee advances its first Democratic gun-control bills to floor (Patricia Sullivan for Washington Post, January 24, 2020 at 12:51 PM EST)
RICHMOND — Virginia Democrats advanced most of their gun-control bills Friday in the House of Delegates, voting to expand background checks on gun buyers and reinstate the one-handgun-purchase-per-month rule, among other measures, but did not hear a proposal for an assault-weapons ban.

The House Committee on Public Safety passed seven of the eight gun bills that Gov. Ralph Northam (D) has made a priority, sending them for consideration by the full House.

It was the first time any of the Democrats’ gun bills were taken up by a House committee. The Senate has passed four gun-control bills that will make their way to the same House committee later in the session.

Del. Patrick Hope (D-Arlington), the committee chairman, said the assault-weapons ban is still being worked on. “We hope to bring it up in short order,” he said.
WHSV has similar coverage with some links to the respective bills:
  1. HB 2: universal background checks on gun purchases
  2. HB 674: a red flag bill that would allow authorities to temporarily take guns away from anyone deemed to be dangerous to themselves or others.
  3. HB 812: limiting handgun purchases to once a month
  4. HB 1485: allowing localities to ban guns in public buildings, parks and other areas
Almost all of the bills passed on a 13-9 party line vote.

The article also notes that HB 961, a proposed 'assault weapon' ban, a top priority for Gov. Ralph Northam, wasn't advanced.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:59 AM on January 24


Red flag law bill clears first hurdle in New Mexico (KOB 4, January 28, 2020)
Senate Bill 5 passed in the Senate Public Affairs Committee. It now moves on to the Senate Judiciary Committee.

The three Republican senators on the committee voted against the bill. However, all the Democrats voted in favor of the bill.

The state Senate prohibited firearms in its public gallery and nearby rooms while the debate took place.
*pumps fists*

I don't know the chances of this passing, but we have Democratic majority in the Senate and House, and a Democratic governor.

There's also HB 7, for the parallel house bill. I don't see any other firearm legislation for this short 30 day session, but I'll take this.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:46 AM on January 29 [1 favorite]


The backlash to losing political control:

West Virginia’s governor to Virginia counties: Leave your blue state and join West Virginia
As Virginia’s new Democratic majority ushers through a raft of liberal proposals on issues including gun control and abortion, West Virginia’s governor is making an unusual proposal to disgruntled Virginians: Break away.

Gov. Jim Justice (R) on Tuesday endorsed a plan for conservatives unhappy with the new direction of their state legislature to demand ballot referendums in their cities and counties this November, through which they could express their desire for their county to leave Virginia and join West Virginia instead.
What the Hell Is Vexit?
In a partnership that befits our deeply stupid time, Governor Jim Justice of West Virginia has teamed up with Jerry Falwell Jr., Liberty University president and Florida hotelier, to advance a new project. Both men have come out in support of Vexit, an effort to expand the state of West Virginia by convincing some parts of Virginia to secede. According to Justice, Virginians unhappy with their Democratic state government ought to join their counties to West Virginia, where the GOP still holds sway. “If you are out there, no matter where you may be, Virginia or wherever you may be, as an individual or as a business or whatever, West Virginia is waiting for you with open arms,” he said. A charming proposal!
posted by peeedro at 5:48 PM on January 29


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