Beware not the Enemy from 'Without' but the Enemy from 'Within'.
July 21, 2020 1:43 PM Subscribe
How right-wing is the nationalist alternative AfD for Germany?
BfV agency says there are more than 32,000 far-right extremists in the country.
In January, the head of Military intelligence s confirmed hundreds of new investigations into soldiers with extremist right-wing leanings. 'An Enemy Within' and will now reform an elite army unit from the inside out. The far right has infiltrated green groups with a call to protect the land.
The Neo-Nazi group Nordadler has been banned. They had 'ordered body bags, made kill lists. This is the third such ban this year.
A Neo-Nazi stands trial on charges of murdering pro-refugee politician Walter Luebcke and this raises questions once again about far-right cells, sympathies, and blind spots among police and the military.
A leader Jewish community leader has expressed alarm at the spread of antisemitic conspiracy theories relating to coronavirus in the country, including attempts to downplay the Holocaust.
Related from end of 2018; Hannibal (incorporated in this FPP). Further Reading: Right-wing networks in the German state exposed.
BfV agency says there are more than 32,000 far-right extremists in the country.
In January, the head of Military intelligence s confirmed hundreds of new investigations into soldiers with extremist right-wing leanings. 'An Enemy Within' and will now reform an elite army unit from the inside out. The far right has infiltrated green groups with a call to protect the land.
The Neo-Nazi group Nordadler has been banned. They had 'ordered body bags, made kill lists. This is the third such ban this year.
A Neo-Nazi stands trial on charges of murdering pro-refugee politician Walter Luebcke and this raises questions once again about far-right cells, sympathies, and blind spots among police and the military.
A leader Jewish community leader has expressed alarm at the spread of antisemitic conspiracy theories relating to coronavirus in the country, including attempts to downplay the Holocaust.
Related from end of 2018; Hannibal (incorporated in this FPP). Further Reading: Right-wing networks in the German state exposed.
AfD should not be a legitimate political party. Nor should any of the other neo-fascist movements worldwide, but specific to Germany, AfD skate as close to the line of being openly Neo-Nazi as is possible under the law while maintaining a laughably thin pretense of legitimacy. The BBC link doesn't go into much detail about the party leaders' explicit connections to German Neo-Nazi groups. There have been a few developments since February as far as this goes (though Höcke's affiliation with NPD were already public knowledge); in March Höcke's Flügel faction vowed to dissolve as a tactical response to domestic investigations into the party. Both Höcke and Kalbitz have links to Neo-Nazis, and to be clear the dissolution of the Flügel faction is functionally meaningless if their fascism simply permeates throughout AfD more broadly (as it already does). The media framing of Höcke and Kalbitz's faction as a fringe within a "right-wing" "populist" movement is a maddening fig leaf granted to Neo-Nazis.
The prevalence of German Neo-Nazi groups - many overlapping with positions of power - is deeply depressing. Thanks for this post.
posted by Lonnrot at 4:09 PM on July 21, 2020 [17 favorites]
The prevalence of German Neo-Nazi groups - many overlapping with positions of power - is deeply depressing. Thanks for this post.
posted by Lonnrot at 4:09 PM on July 21, 2020 [17 favorites]
What interests me is they have a means of counting how many far-right extremists there are in Germany, while the US doesn't publish figures. I can't find a count for the United States. The current administration has attempted to make the boogeyman, anyone but his base.
The number 32,000 seems big, it is .0381 percent of Germans. The Germans put it at 12, 700 or so, for people who have violent ideals or plans. I have to think the American number is much higher, certainly the violent acts of American extremists outnumber the Germans. Americans have been in Europe, whipping up right wing causes, that abominable guy, one of the Steves, oh yes, Bannon, reports he is coming home to help with the next election, now he is finished whipping up right wing, nationalist sentiment in the EU, doubtlessly trying to break it up, you know, divide and conquer.
Germany appears to be thorough in taking care of this. Die gedanken sent frei, it's the acts, and plans that are not. 94 is the official death count from Right Wing extremism since 1990, others doing the counting put it at around 200. The facists have burned plenty of immigrant houses, in Germany, even one is too many.
I loathe facism, just to make sure Mefites know this. What is happening in the US is horrifying.
posted by Oyéah at 4:57 PM on July 21, 2020 [8 favorites]
The number 32,000 seems big, it is .0381 percent of Germans. The Germans put it at 12, 700 or so, for people who have violent ideals or plans. I have to think the American number is much higher, certainly the violent acts of American extremists outnumber the Germans. Americans have been in Europe, whipping up right wing causes, that abominable guy, one of the Steves, oh yes, Bannon, reports he is coming home to help with the next election, now he is finished whipping up right wing, nationalist sentiment in the EU, doubtlessly trying to break it up, you know, divide and conquer.
Germany appears to be thorough in taking care of this. Die gedanken sent frei, it's the acts, and plans that are not. 94 is the official death count from Right Wing extremism since 1990, others doing the counting put it at around 200. The facists have burned plenty of immigrant houses, in Germany, even one is too many.
I loathe facism, just to make sure Mefites know this. What is happening in the US is horrifying.
posted by Oyéah at 4:57 PM on July 21, 2020 [8 favorites]
traditionally, burning to the ground and salting the earth is the only way to rid your house of fascists
I have heard that encasing them in plastic zipper bags and then into the tumble dryer for a couple of hours works as well.
posted by flabdablet at 8:15 PM on July 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
I have heard that encasing them in plastic zipper bags and then into the tumble dryer for a couple of hours works as well.
posted by flabdablet at 8:15 PM on July 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
Can we not make this about the US within the first four comments please.
posted by IncognitoErgoSum at 11:39 PM on July 21, 2020 [29 favorites]
posted by IncognitoErgoSum at 11:39 PM on July 21, 2020 [29 favorites]
Mod note: One deleted. What IncognitoErgoSum said.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:43 PM on July 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 11:43 PM on July 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
I just read this post yesterday before going on a long drive, and then in the car I heard a radio talk show where they discussed the history and legacy of the Gladio stay-behind networks, which was weirdly apropos.
AfD is a predictable outcome of how Die Wende happened in the Eastern part of Germany, similar to the far right nationalism in Poland and Hungary. It's not about Nazi genes in Germans, but a whole lot of factors that added up could only lead to anger, hate and nationalism.
Yes, the DDR didn't have a reconciliation proces after WW2, and the West Germans didn't do it well enough, but that is a small factor compared to the desolation of the East German ghost cities after 1989, and the lack of respect and recognition for the people who had lived a life behind the wall. I am not trying to defend the indefensible, but I have been so angry with the politicians who didn't see this coming and didn't try to prevent it because they imagined "the free market" would solve all problems.
posted by mumimor at 3:09 AM on July 22, 2020 [15 favorites]
AfD is a predictable outcome of how Die Wende happened in the Eastern part of Germany, similar to the far right nationalism in Poland and Hungary. It's not about Nazi genes in Germans, but a whole lot of factors that added up could only lead to anger, hate and nationalism.
Yes, the DDR didn't have a reconciliation proces after WW2, and the West Germans didn't do it well enough, but that is a small factor compared to the desolation of the East German ghost cities after 1989, and the lack of respect and recognition for the people who had lived a life behind the wall. I am not trying to defend the indefensible, but I have been so angry with the politicians who didn't see this coming and didn't try to prevent it because they imagined "the free market" would solve all problems.
posted by mumimor at 3:09 AM on July 22, 2020 [15 favorites]
The squaring of the circle. Ex-officer accused of human rights crimes in Argentina found living in Berlin – despite being the subject of an international arrest warrant.
posted by adamvasco at 5:03 AM on July 22, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 5:03 AM on July 22, 2020 [5 favorites]
Up to now, immigration has been AfD's big issue; Covid has pretty much put that off the table, at least for the moment. It will be interesting to see if Merkel keeps restrictions in place until next year's general election. In the meantime, polls show AfD support declining this past year. Not that they've ever managed to break out of the low teens at the best of times, and they're not exactly a go-to party for anyone trying to build a coalition.
Merkel's recent agreement to back the new round of Eurobonds (aka in this case, Coronabonds), a thing she has resisted for years, may make the Germans grumpy, but enough to go full bore right wing?
Of course things could change, and I like to be a glass half full kind of person. But I don't really see a lot of parallels (war reparations, hyperinflation, economic depression, weak central government, strong communist party) between now and 1918-1932.
posted by BWA at 8:51 AM on July 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
Merkel's recent agreement to back the new round of Eurobonds (aka in this case, Coronabonds), a thing she has resisted for years, may make the Germans grumpy, but enough to go full bore right wing?
Of course things could change, and I like to be a glass half full kind of person. But I don't really see a lot of parallels (war reparations, hyperinflation, economic depression, weak central government, strong communist party) between now and 1918-1932.
posted by BWA at 8:51 AM on July 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
Of course things could change, and I like to be a glass half full kind of person. But I don't really see a lot of parallels (war reparations, hyperinflation, economic depression, weak central government, strong communist party) between now and 1918-1932.
Goodness no, I don't see Germany heading in that direction at all. All European countries have their share of the radical right, and a country like France has a much greater percentage of near-fascist to fascist crazies than Germany.
posted by mumimor at 9:12 AM on July 22, 2020
Goodness no, I don't see Germany heading in that direction at all. All European countries have their share of the radical right, and a country like France has a much greater percentage of near-fascist to fascist crazies than Germany.
posted by mumimor at 9:12 AM on July 22, 2020
a country like France has a much greater percentage of near-fascist to fascist crazies than Germany.
I feel you should maybe produce a source for that. Sure there are lots of rather nasty right wing French Nationalists and yes they probably proliferate in the police and security forces and in areas of unemployment but we don't hear much about political assassination.
Germany seems to have an in built nazi streak which was never fully purged after the second world war and was allowed to flourish, almost encouraged I think you can say in the old Eastern sector.
Denazification only went so far and sons learn from fathers.
Germany definitely seems to have an underground and not so underground ultra right organizational structure in place and there is no doubt that they talk with fellow believers in other nations and of course with Putin (pdf) - the cash has to come from somewhere.
posted by adamvasco at 9:59 AM on July 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
I feel you should maybe produce a source for that. Sure there are lots of rather nasty right wing French Nationalists and yes they probably proliferate in the police and security forces and in areas of unemployment but we don't hear much about political assassination.
Germany seems to have an in built nazi streak which was never fully purged after the second world war and was allowed to flourish, almost encouraged I think you can say in the old Eastern sector.
Denazification only went so far and sons learn from fathers.
Germany definitely seems to have an underground and not so underground ultra right organizational structure in place and there is no doubt that they talk with fellow believers in other nations and of course with Putin (pdf) - the cash has to come from somewhere.
posted by adamvasco at 9:59 AM on July 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
Germany is arguably doing better than most of the world as far as resurgent fascism goes - it's still not strongly supported by the general population, AfD's support has dropped, it's being investigated and called out by government and journalists, it's still a scandal when someone on the far right predictably ends up linked to Neo-Nazis; there is also the advantage of having had to reconcile with the most famously fascist history in the world - but it's always important to identify fascism and call it by its name, especially before it takes root. The current conditions aren't ripe for fascist rot to take off, but there are a number of risk factors on the horizon that fascists could seize to ride into power again.
I guess I'm cautious. A thing to learn from history is that the conditions that led to atrocities will always recur, and we have to really consider that to make sure we can still choose better paths when they do. Ideally, that won't happen in our lifetimes, but looking at the next few decades... It would be good to be prepared. Germany has some advantages compared to other countries, many of which are falling face first into fascism now. It could be a positive (heh) alternative model for how to confront and defang that particular challenge.
posted by Lonnrot at 10:03 AM on July 22, 2020 [6 favorites]
I guess I'm cautious. A thing to learn from history is that the conditions that led to atrocities will always recur, and we have to really consider that to make sure we can still choose better paths when they do. Ideally, that won't happen in our lifetimes, but looking at the next few decades... It would be good to be prepared. Germany has some advantages compared to other countries, many of which are falling face first into fascism now. It could be a positive (heh) alternative model for how to confront and defang that particular challenge.
posted by Lonnrot at 10:03 AM on July 22, 2020 [6 favorites]
...but I'm not especially optimistic. Still, we live in hope.
posted by Lonnrot at 10:04 AM on July 22, 2020
posted by Lonnrot at 10:04 AM on July 22, 2020
Slightly tangental; Anne Applebaum interviewed in Bloomberg
The November Election Could Not Be Bigger — for Europe
...There are connections between the Hungarian ruling party, the Polish ruling party, the far-right in Italy, the far right in France and to a lesser extent the far-right in Spain. All of them have links to the U.S. too, to the Trumpist part of the Republican Party, as well as the online alt-right. Some of the links are personal: the party members and leaders meet one another and go to conferences together. There are also connections between their followers online. They copy one another’s posts and promote one another’s ideas. They will often fixate, as a group, on one particular incident; after the Notre Dame fire last year, many began posting and tweeting about alleged Muslim responsibility, or using the fire as a symbol for the supposed destruction of Christianity.
posted by adamvasco at 7:53 AM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
The November Election Could Not Be Bigger — for Europe
...There are connections between the Hungarian ruling party, the Polish ruling party, the far-right in Italy, the far right in France and to a lesser extent the far-right in Spain. All of them have links to the U.S. too, to the Trumpist part of the Republican Party, as well as the online alt-right. Some of the links are personal: the party members and leaders meet one another and go to conferences together. There are also connections between their followers online. They copy one another’s posts and promote one another’s ideas. They will often fixate, as a group, on one particular incident; after the Notre Dame fire last year, many began posting and tweeting about alleged Muslim responsibility, or using the fire as a symbol for the supposed destruction of Christianity.
posted by adamvasco at 7:53 AM on July 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
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I am afraid that, traditionally, burning to the ground and salting the earth is the only way to rid your house of fascists.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:47 PM on July 21, 2020 [17 favorites]