This Post is Spoilers
October 18, 2020 12:45 PM Subscribe
They edit the blinks out.
posted by octothorpe at 1:19 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 1:19 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Spoiler avoidance can go way too far.
A co-worker flew out to info dump on an application he was handing off to me and my team because he was quitting, and since me and my teammate are remote yet lived in the same town, we booked a hotel conference room for a week. We only really had 3.5 days worth of material, so we spent the last day fucking around at a 3 hour lunch and then went to see some big summer movie at the end. Well, one of the Avengers movies had a trailer, and in order to "avoid" spoilers this coworker put his fingers into his ears, learned over in his seat like he was in extreme abdominal distress, and hummed so loud he might as well have been screaming.
At the point, I went team "Spoilers? Fuck Yeah!", because a grown man acting that way is just ridiculous.
posted by sideshow at 1:39 PM on October 18, 2020 [15 favorites]
A co-worker flew out to info dump on an application he was handing off to me and my team because he was quitting, and since me and my teammate are remote yet lived in the same town, we booked a hotel conference room for a week. We only really had 3.5 days worth of material, so we spent the last day fucking around at a 3 hour lunch and then went to see some big summer movie at the end. Well, one of the Avengers movies had a trailer, and in order to "avoid" spoilers this coworker put his fingers into his ears, learned over in his seat like he was in extreme abdominal distress, and hummed so loud he might as well have been screaming.
At the point, I went team "Spoilers? Fuck Yeah!", because a grown man acting that way is just ridiculous.
posted by sideshow at 1:39 PM on October 18, 2020 [15 favorites]
"The Sixth Sense"?? Dammit, I hadn't even seen the first five movies yet! Thanks for ruining it for me, dude.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:44 PM on October 18, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:44 PM on October 18, 2020 [12 favorites]
Does this man blink?
I'd answer that, but it'd be a spoiler for anyone who hasn't watched the full video.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:48 PM on October 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'd answer that, but it'd be a spoiler for anyone who hasn't watched the full video.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:48 PM on October 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
I love how Tim Rogers makes an epic journey out of what would be a throwaway listicle for anyone else.
posted by rikschell at 1:53 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 1:53 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
seems to me that grown man just simply still finds joy in letting himself be surprised by a good story and was doing what he could to prevent that joy being taken away from him because of an unlucky work lunch
posted by scrowdid at 2:01 PM on October 18, 2020 [17 favorites]
posted by scrowdid at 2:01 PM on October 18, 2020 [17 favorites]
I went team "Spoilers? Fuck Yeah!", because a grown man acting that way is just ridiculous.
I tend to hate it when grown adults can't NOT give key stuff away about movies, books, TV shows, whatever. But I also hate it when grown adults care WAY TOO MUCH about superhero shit. So in this context, I guess I don't really care one way or another.
But please f*** off if you're feeling compelled to tell me how Finnegan's Wake ends.
posted by philip-random at 2:02 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
I tend to hate it when grown adults can't NOT give key stuff away about movies, books, TV shows, whatever. But I also hate it when grown adults care WAY TOO MUCH about superhero shit. So in this context, I guess I don't really care one way or another.
But please f*** off if you're feeling compelled to tell me how Finnegan's Wake ends.
posted by philip-random at 2:02 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
how Finnegan's Wake ends.
They all get run over by a truck.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:07 PM on October 18, 2020 [14 favorites]
They all get run over by a truck.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:07 PM on October 18, 2020 [14 favorites]
he could to prevent that joy being taken away from him because of an unlucky work lunch
He choose the movie, and I think someone's "joy" shouldn't result in multiple reports to the theater management by concerned theater goers, and require assurances to said management that the en-route police and EMTs will no longer be needed.
posted by sideshow at 2:11 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
He choose the movie, and I think someone's "joy" shouldn't result in multiple reports to the theater management by concerned theater goers, and require assurances to said management that the en-route police and EMTs will no longer be needed.
posted by sideshow at 2:11 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
It was a decent list of suggestions, for someone in Rogers' position, but I fear that his job has dulled something of his deeper sense of spoilerdom and how to avoid it. He takes the central paradox of spoilers for granted and leaves it completely unexamined. How the outcry over spoilers most fanatically accompanies the media people most want to discuss, the blockbusters and other hyped shows that dominate conversations online. The "Spoiler Baby" must be aware of that hype in order to want to avoid it, which is both already a spoiler for being aware and concerned about the hype, which is a kind of pre-selection of interest and value, and for wanting to shut down or at least avoid those conversations until they themselves can be a part of them, which explicitly recognizes the desire for conversation but only as it fits their own schedule.
To truly avoid spoilers one need avoid all major media "events" and their resulting hype and discussions. Instead of seeking out whatever "big" movie or show is capturing the fickle attentions of the masses, the true spoiler baby would pick films and shows at random where the titles and stars carry no associations whatsoever, which virtually guarantees no one in their social media feed or real world friends will be discussing it at all.
If you're in the US, this is easy just type in a more or less randomly chosen year and the word movie into Google Video search and then add "English subtitles" and you will get a selection of films 99% of Americans wouldn't know a thing about as they never watch anything that isn't made by Hollywood. Most of the actors won't be familiar, so there's none of the spoiling that comes from typecasting and genre actors in Hollywood and as the rest of the world doesn't have grotesque Hollywood budgets and the resulting formulaic scripting demands, the way the story plays out is much more likely to be unfamiliar as well. Of course you won't be able to talk about the movie with anyone else after watching it, but then why would you as that too is just another path to spoilerdom.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:21 PM on October 18, 2020 [7 favorites]
To truly avoid spoilers one need avoid all major media "events" and their resulting hype and discussions. Instead of seeking out whatever "big" movie or show is capturing the fickle attentions of the masses, the true spoiler baby would pick films and shows at random where the titles and stars carry no associations whatsoever, which virtually guarantees no one in their social media feed or real world friends will be discussing it at all.
If you're in the US, this is easy just type in a more or less randomly chosen year and the word movie into Google Video search and then add "English subtitles" and you will get a selection of films 99% of Americans wouldn't know a thing about as they never watch anything that isn't made by Hollywood. Most of the actors won't be familiar, so there's none of the spoiling that comes from typecasting and genre actors in Hollywood and as the rest of the world doesn't have grotesque Hollywood budgets and the resulting formulaic scripting demands, the way the story plays out is much more likely to be unfamiliar as well. Of course you won't be able to talk about the movie with anyone else after watching it, but then why would you as that too is just another path to spoilerdom.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:21 PM on October 18, 2020 [7 favorites]
This mid-70s episode of the British sitcom Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads centres on the two lead characters' determination to avoid anyone telling them the score of a football match they plan to watch on television later that day. The word "spoiler" hadn't yet been coined, but that's what they're talking about all the same. I always think it must mark one of the concept's earliest appearances in popular culture.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:39 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 2:39 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
how Finnegan's Wake ends.
They all get run over by a truck.
I think you mean "boat"
posted by donpardo at 2:39 PM on October 18, 2020 [12 favorites]
They all get run over by a truck.
I think you mean "boat"
posted by donpardo at 2:39 PM on October 18, 2020 [12 favorites]
Paul Slade: "This mid-70s episode of the British sitcom Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads centres on the two lead characters' determination to avoid anyone telling them the score of a football match they plan to watch on television later that day. The word "spoiler" hadn't yet been coined, but that's what they're talking about all the same. I always think it must mark one of the concept's earliest appearances in popular culture."
Back when I was watching (US) football, I'd often record it and then start watching at around half-time so that I could blast through it in about 90 minutes, fast-forwarding through the commercials and dead-time but then I'd have to stay off the internet for the whole game.
posted by octothorpe at 2:48 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
Back when I was watching (US) football, I'd often record it and then start watching at around half-time so that I could blast through it in about 90 minutes, fast-forwarding through the commercials and dead-time but then I'd have to stay off the internet for the whole game.
posted by octothorpe at 2:48 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
Conversely, some folks will check the back of a book to see if they wanna finish it.
posted by StarkRoads at 3:39 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by StarkRoads at 3:39 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
formulaic scripting...
That is what has always got me about this modern version of the spoiler averse phenomena - it always seems to be centred on the larger Hollywood films and television. I love to be surprised by movies but I've yet to be truly surprised by many big budget Hollywood films so I find it legitimately incredible that people can watch a tentpole movie and not be able to see where things are going just by reading the title of the movie. I wonder if the desire of familiarity has something to do with it... the viewer doesn't want their illusion of novelty dispelled?
posted by Ashwagandha at 3:43 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
That is what has always got me about this modern version of the spoiler averse phenomena - it always seems to be centred on the larger Hollywood films and television. I love to be surprised by movies but I've yet to be truly surprised by many big budget Hollywood films so I find it legitimately incredible that people can watch a tentpole movie and not be able to see where things are going just by reading the title of the movie. I wonder if the desire of familiarity has something to do with it... the viewer doesn't want their illusion of novelty dispelled?
posted by Ashwagandha at 3:43 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
No, I guess I just prefer not to have what might be the five best gags, reveals, and/or heart felt moments blurted out during a minute long 'teaser' because the studio is concerned I might not otherwise see their film.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:49 PM on October 18, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:49 PM on October 18, 2020 [7 favorites]
I've definitely noticed that one of the things driving anti-spoiler culture is that similar to cheap jump scares in a horror flick, too many movies and shows rely on cheap reveals or cheap twists.
There are plenty of canonically-great reveals/twists. The Sixth Sense is maybe one of the very best (Shyamalan's later work doesn't undo that one), but a lot of shows and movies lean on cheap twists, and therefore, rather than the reveal being a satisfying resolution to an issue that was hanging over your head the whole time (or, like in The Sixth Sense, something that snaps the whole gestalt into place), they just go for zing factor.
I hate jump scares because they're not scary. I'm sick of cheap twists because they're not rewarding. One of the biggest cheap twists of all time that has been criminally oversold as a twist is the twist at the end of The Usual Suspects. It was amusing to see that the story was being made up all along, but upon a rewatch, there was no buildup for the payoff, just a zing of a "twist" that, on deeper consideration, was hollow.
Anti-spoiler culture has risen with the habit of the cheap reveal, and it's truly unfortunate.
posted by tclark at 4:03 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
There are plenty of canonically-great reveals/twists. The Sixth Sense is maybe one of the very best (Shyamalan's later work doesn't undo that one), but a lot of shows and movies lean on cheap twists, and therefore, rather than the reveal being a satisfying resolution to an issue that was hanging over your head the whole time (or, like in The Sixth Sense, something that snaps the whole gestalt into place), they just go for zing factor.
I hate jump scares because they're not scary. I'm sick of cheap twists because they're not rewarding. One of the biggest cheap twists of all time that has been criminally oversold as a twist is the twist at the end of The Usual Suspects. It was amusing to see that the story was being made up all along, but upon a rewatch, there was no buildup for the payoff, just a zing of a "twist" that, on deeper consideration, was hollow.
Anti-spoiler culture has risen with the habit of the cheap reveal, and it's truly unfortunate.
posted by tclark at 4:03 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
But please f*** off if you're feeling compelled to tell me how Finnegan's Wake ends.
Rocks fall, everyone dies.
posted by notsnot at 4:19 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
Rocks fall, everyone dies.
posted by notsnot at 4:19 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
Since we're talking about illusions, I mean nobody says it's okay to spoil a magic trick to a new audience. I know how cups and balls or whatever works, generally. But we accept that going into the guts of a piece of art, deconstructing the magic, while worthy and valuable, does not justify forcing that information upon others. We don't blame cups and balls for being trite and unoriginal or 4000 years old, then tell children at a magician's party how it all really works and connects to modern developments in sleight of hand technique or whatever. I think this holds etiquette for all performance art which has a temporal component. I think it's better to fault social media and the structural coercion intrinsic to an interconnected world.
posted by polymodus at 4:29 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by polymodus at 4:29 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
TIL I am a Spoiler Avoidance Expert.
Not only did I watch Star Wars Episode 7
as "unspoiled as fresh, hot, milk" but I stopped watching Game of Thrones when it caught up with the books and still don't know anything about the fabled Season 8.
Hell, I still don't know what's in the box.
Personally, I do my best to avoid spoilers, but I think there is a acceptable cultural time limit to what counts as a spoiler.
If you are are giving away the ending or twist Monday morning after a debut, you're kind of an ass.
But if you're talking about something when you can reasonably assume that most people who care have seen it, you're ok.
The only exception, I think, is when the movie or book is kind of a one-trick pony, and giving away the twist gives away the entire thing.
In that case, I think a decent person would double-check or even just allude to it rather than put it right out there.
posted by madajb at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
Not only did I watch Star Wars Episode 7
as "unspoiled as fresh, hot, milk" but I stopped watching Game of Thrones when it caught up with the books and still don't know anything about the fabled Season 8.
Hell, I still don't know what's in the box.
Personally, I do my best to avoid spoilers, but I think there is a acceptable cultural time limit to what counts as a spoiler.
If you are are giving away the ending or twist Monday morning after a debut, you're kind of an ass.
But if you're talking about something when you can reasonably assume that most people who care have seen it, you're ok.
The only exception, I think, is when the movie or book is kind of a one-trick pony, and giving away the twist gives away the entire thing.
In that case, I think a decent person would double-check or even just allude to it rather than put it right out there.
posted by madajb at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
I've yet to be truly surprised by many big budget Hollywood films so I find it legitimately incredible that people can watch a tentpole movie and not be able to see where things are going just by reading the title of the movie.
This is basically covered in the video under the "how not what" scenario.
Yes, in any typical blockbuster, you know the heroes are going to save the day, but how that happens is just as important to the enjoyment of the movie.
posted by madajb at 4:34 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
This is basically covered in the video under the "how not what" scenario.
Yes, in any typical blockbuster, you know the heroes are going to save the day, but how that happens is just as important to the enjoyment of the movie.
posted by madajb at 4:34 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
I got bored watching this, can someone spoil the end and let me know if he said anything funny and/or wasn't just "hide in a hole"-type stuff?
Har.
But seriously folks, you can try to hide in a hole all your life, but there will always be someone who yells "bleep bleeps bleeplebleep!" at the Scary Plotter # book party and there is nothing you can do about that. Grow up, accept that you may hear details of plots inadvertently, it won't utterly kill everything. Go watch the thing as soon as you can, but you can't monitor everyone.
One of my exes was one of these "don't even wanna know the plot" people and I have never understood how you even know you want to consume a thing with that level of ignorance.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:38 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Har.
But seriously folks, you can try to hide in a hole all your life, but there will always be someone who yells "bleep bleeps bleeplebleep!" at the Scary Plotter # book party and there is nothing you can do about that. Grow up, accept that you may hear details of plots inadvertently, it won't utterly kill everything. Go watch the thing as soon as you can, but you can't monitor everyone.
One of my exes was one of these "don't even wanna know the plot" people and I have never understood how you even know you want to consume a thing with that level of ignorance.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:38 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yeah madajb and it's also a subtle way to separate the high-brow from the low-brow. So low-brow art is less deserving of empathy and enjoyment, the creative class can say it's terrible junk food and melts people's brains anyways so doesn't deserve any respect for viewers' wishes on how they would like to consume it.
posted by polymodus at 4:38 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by polymodus at 4:38 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
you can try to hide in a hole all your life
...and then, in a totally ironic twist, you get cremated
posted by flabdablet at 5:08 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
...and then, in a totally ironic twist, you get cremated
posted by flabdablet at 5:08 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
still don't know anything about the fabled Season 8.
They all get run over by a horse and cart.
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:14 PM on October 18, 2020 [7 favorites]
They all get run over by a horse and cart.
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:14 PM on October 18, 2020 [7 favorites]
For any aspect of any entertainment media, spoilers or otherwise, my current threshold is that when entertainment becomes work, I’m too invested. So, while I don’t want Star Wars or whatever spoiled, I’m also not going to do any extra effort whatsoever to make sure I remain unspoiled. I do enough work between life, employment and household chores; I don’t need my entertainment to entail extra effort, too. So sometimes things are spoiled, sometimes not, turns out I mostly enjoy them the same.
(This was also my personal catalyst for exiting social media several years ago, when I realized how much extra work it is to constantly curate your digital self. Managing my corporeal self is enough for me.)
posted by LooseFilter at 5:25 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
(This was also my personal catalyst for exiting social media several years ago, when I realized how much extra work it is to constantly curate your digital self. Managing my corporeal self is enough for me.)
posted by LooseFilter at 5:25 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have never understood how you even know you want to consume a thing with that level of ignorance.
So if I go back in time and spoil the twist in 'The Matrix' before you go see it the first time, you'll be OK with that and not want to punch me in the face? (*)
Maybe because I trust that the creators might possibly have provisioned a wonderful experience for me, the experience of which will be maximized by knowing nothing of what might be revealed ahead of my actual viewing?
(*) Assuming you liked 'The Matrix' of course but other films could be swapped in if necessary.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 5:38 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
Maybe because I trust that the creators might possibly have provisioned a wonderful experience for me, the experience of which will be maximized by knowing nothing of what might be revealed ahead of my actual viewing?
(*) Assuming you liked 'The Matrix' of course but other films could be swapped in if necessary.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 5:38 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
(Cause I'd punch me in the face.)
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 5:45 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 5:45 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Wait, there was a twist in The Matrix?
posted by CrystalDave at 6:08 PM on October 18, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by CrystalDave at 6:08 PM on October 18, 2020 [9 favorites]
I am middle aged and I'm not sure how you could spoil any work of pop culture for me by revealing its plot. I can't remember the last time I saw anything mainstream with as much depth as a Mrs. Marple whodunit; blockbusters are predictable AF (they mostly always have been, I suppose I just don't understand being invested).
Like seriously, Star Wars plots are at the intellectual level of an 80s soap opera - somebody's someone's secret relative, somebody turns out to be a traitor . . .
posted by aspersioncast at 6:08 PM on October 18, 2020 [8 favorites]
Like seriously, Star Wars plots are at the intellectual level of an 80s soap opera - somebody's someone's secret relative, somebody turns out to be a traitor . . .
posted by aspersioncast at 6:08 PM on October 18, 2020 [8 favorites]
Someone I know went to a stand-up comedy cabaret the early 90's, where a performer on stage blurted out the hidden plot twist to 'The Crying Game' (1992), and exactly half of the audience groaned.
Personally, I really like hidden plot twists, I think they give a nice spice to the aesthetic pleasure in a narrative plot, and I think that people who blurt/spoil plot twists should feel bad about themselves.
(hey, rewatched '12 Monkeys' (1995) and noticed that at one point Bruce says: "I see dead people" (reference to 'The Sixth Sense' (1999)?)
posted by ovvl at 6:14 PM on October 18, 2020
Personally, I really like hidden plot twists, I think they give a nice spice to the aesthetic pleasure in a narrative plot, and I think that people who blurt/spoil plot twists should feel bad about themselves.
(hey, rewatched '12 Monkeys' (1995) and noticed that at one point Bruce says: "I see dead people" (reference to 'The Sixth Sense' (1999)?)
posted by ovvl at 6:14 PM on October 18, 2020
Lots of people commenting without having watched the video. Which is weirdly commendable, congratulations all for keeping yourselves spoilers-free from Tim Rogers's listicle.
posted by simmering octagon at 6:25 PM on October 18, 2020
posted by simmering octagon at 6:25 PM on October 18, 2020
One of my exes was one of these "don't even wanna know the plot" people and I have never understood how you even know you want to consume a thing with that level of ignorance.
You rely on word of mouth, reviews, ratings, whether some of the creators have impressed you in the past, and/or a general idea of the subject matter. Knowing any plot is not necessary.
posted by scrowdid at 6:34 PM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
You rely on word of mouth, reviews, ratings, whether some of the creators have impressed you in the past, and/or a general idea of the subject matter. Knowing any plot is not necessary.
posted by scrowdid at 6:34 PM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
Like seriously, Star Wars plots are at the intellectual level of an 80s soap opera - somebody's someone's secret relative, somebody turns out to be a traitor . . .
Having just slogged through all of Clone Wars and Rebels (*) I'd say for me: it's how well the characters are drawn and how I might wind up invested in outcomes as a result.
(*) An effort which honestly surprised the shit out of me, feeling mostly done and un-invested in the franchise after the last film...but then I have a lot of time on my hands these days.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:46 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
P.S. And during that time I assiduously avoided ANYTHING that might spoil various plot lines as they unfolded, some of which clearly extend into the most recent SW venture 'The Mandalorian.' I realize I'm just that kind of media consumer.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:54 PM on October 18, 2020
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:54 PM on October 18, 2020
Wait, there was a twist in The Matrix?
Turns out there was a spoon after all.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:15 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
Turns out there was a spoon after all.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:15 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
But please f*** off if you're feeling compelled to tell me how Finnegan's Wake ends.
During the brawl, a bottle of whiskey shatters over Tim and it turns out he’s not dead after all.
Whack fol the da Now dance to your partner
Welt the floor, your trotters shake;
Wasn't it the truth I told you?
Lots of fun at Finnegan's wake!
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:28 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
During the brawl, a bottle of whiskey shatters over Tim and it turns out he’s not dead after all.
Whack fol the da Now dance to your partner
Welt the floor, your trotters shake;
Wasn't it the truth I told you?
Lots of fun at Finnegan's wake!
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:28 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
But please f*** off if you're feeling compelled to tell me how Finnegan's Wake ends.
That's a cool thing to say if you know how Finnegan's Wake actually ends. :)
posted by storybored at 7:58 PM on October 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
That's a cool thing to say if you know how Finnegan's Wake actually ends. :)
posted by storybored at 7:58 PM on October 18, 2020 [5 favorites]
I hate when people spoil films, books, etc. I’m assiduous in not doing it, and most people seem to be reasonable about not doing it, either.
But one time, I was the asshole who spoiled a movie, for a LOT of people, completely inadvertently. I did it because I was upset at the film. I was totally mortified as soon as I did it.
It was when my friends and I were leaving Star Trek Generations. As we were walking past the people queued up to watch the film, I stupidly blurted out “Dammit, they killed Kirk!”
The howls and groans of those people standing in line still echo today.
I figure I can finally tell this story, now that it’s been over a quarter-century since the movie came out.
posted by darkstar at 8:36 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
But one time, I was the asshole who spoiled a movie, for a LOT of people, completely inadvertently. I did it because I was upset at the film. I was totally mortified as soon as I did it.
It was when my friends and I were leaving Star Trek Generations. As we were walking past the people queued up to watch the film, I stupidly blurted out “Dammit, they killed Kirk!”
The howls and groans of those people standing in line still echo today.
I figure I can finally tell this story, now that it’s been over a quarter-century since the movie came out.
posted by darkstar at 8:36 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
Tar and feathering at darkstar's house, everyone!
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:39 PM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:39 PM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
Tar and feathering at darkstar's house, everyone!
Is this going to lead to some kind of baba yaga situation?
posted by aubilenon at 8:53 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Is this going to lead to some kind of baba yaga situation?
posted by aubilenon at 8:53 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
(okay that's not a good joke - baba yaga's house has chicken legs, which in some way is like having feathers, so if we tarred and feathered the house then you know what, just forget it)
posted by aubilenon at 8:55 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 8:55 PM on October 18, 2020 [4 favorites]
You rely on word of mouth, reviews, ratings, whether some of the creators have impressed you in the past, and/or a general idea of the subject matter. Knowing any plot is not necessary.
Heh, good point. I wasn't real specific on my snark. My ex, like Tim, considered literally anything about the book, including a "yay" or "nay" recommendation, as a spoiler as well. That level of having no idea baffles me!
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:09 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Heh, good point. I wasn't real specific on my snark. My ex, like Tim, considered literally anything about the book, including a "yay" or "nay" recommendation, as a spoiler as well. That level of having no idea baffles me!
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:09 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lots of people commenting without having watched the video. Which is weirdly commendable,
I just skimmed it. To be honest, I don't really like talking-head-lecture-YT-videos, because often the talker just blabs a lot before making any sense or getting to any coherent point, if ever. Personally I'm more comfortable with the text version of these kinds of essays.
posted by ovvl at 9:22 PM on October 18, 2020 [18 favorites]
I just skimmed it. To be honest, I don't really like talking-head-lecture-YT-videos, because often the talker just blabs a lot before making any sense or getting to any coherent point, if ever. Personally I'm more comfortable with the text version of these kinds of essays.
posted by ovvl at 9:22 PM on October 18, 2020 [18 favorites]
I wonder if spoiler haters are the same people who will only see a movie/read a book once? Repetition is part of the pleasure for me. In fact I would say that for many books and movies the tension of the unknown dilutes some of the enjoyment, I end up rushing through instead of savoring.
Also I am a big scaredy cat and deliberately spoil myself if he think I might get freaked out.
posted by emjaybee at 9:40 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
Also I am a big scaredy cat and deliberately spoil myself if he think I might get freaked out.
posted by emjaybee at 9:40 PM on October 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
Also this video was too fucking long, damn dude
posted by emjaybee at 9:41 PM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 9:41 PM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
All I basically want to know ahead of time about movies, books, tv shows, music, escape rooms, whatever is: "which of them am I going to like enough to bother with?"
I feel the complete opposite about food though. Tell me exactly what it is like please.
posted by aubilenon at 9:53 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
I feel the complete opposite about food though. Tell me exactly what it is like please.
posted by aubilenon at 9:53 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Wait except my favorite flavor of Dum-Dum lollipops is "Mystery" so I guess I don't even know what I like any more.
posted by aubilenon at 9:54 PM on October 18, 2020
posted by aubilenon at 9:54 PM on October 18, 2020
Also this video was too fucking long, damn dude
You don't even know, man.
posted by Bezbozhnik at 10:00 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
You don't even know, man.
posted by Bezbozhnik at 10:00 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
But please f*** off if you're feeling compelled to tell me how Finnegan's Wake ends.
Everyone is killed by a rogue apostrophe.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 10:28 PM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
Everyone is killed by a rogue apostrophe.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 10:28 PM on October 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
But please f*** off if you're feeling compelled to tell me how Finnegan's Wake ends.
Finnegan paddles out into the ocean on his surfboard having found inner peace.
posted by benzenedream at 10:28 PM on October 18, 2020
Finnegan paddles out into the ocean on his surfboard having found inner peace.
posted by benzenedream at 10:28 PM on October 18, 2020
I wonder if spoiler haters are the same people who will only see a movie/read a book once? Repetition is part of the pleasure for me.
Interesting, I don't like spoilers partly because it makes repeat watching worse. If you haven't been spoiled, you can watch a movie with no knowledge of what's going to happen, and then watch it again with knowledge of what's going to happen.
With spoilers, you're limited to watching movies with knowledge of what's going to happen. Ideally I'll watch a movie that someone else knows that I'll like without even knowing the genre of the film. It makes it more interesting trying to figure out what angle the film's going for.
posted by No One Ever Does at 10:47 PM on October 18, 2020 [7 favorites]
Interesting, I don't like spoilers partly because it makes repeat watching worse. If you haven't been spoiled, you can watch a movie with no knowledge of what's going to happen, and then watch it again with knowledge of what's going to happen.
With spoilers, you're limited to watching movies with knowledge of what's going to happen. Ideally I'll watch a movie that someone else knows that I'll like without even knowing the genre of the film. It makes it more interesting trying to figure out what angle the film's going for.
posted by No One Ever Does at 10:47 PM on October 18, 2020 [7 favorites]
how Finnegan's Wake ends.
> They all get run over by a truck.
> >I think you mean "boat"
Woah woah? Were we reading the same thing? Because mine finished off with a visit from Xenu. I was shocked to find out that its the most famous Scientology literature too - but it did explain the fervor with which people recommended it.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:50 PM on October 18, 2020
> They all get run over by a truck.
> >I think you mean "boat"
Woah woah? Were we reading the same thing? Because mine finished off with a visit from Xenu. I was shocked to find out that its the most famous Scientology literature too - but it did explain the fervor with which people recommended it.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:50 PM on October 18, 2020
No no, I think you're thinking of Finnegan's Quackery.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:30 PM on October 18, 2020
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:30 PM on October 18, 2020
The topic is pretty meaty even if video guy never uses a sentence where five will do.
Anyone ever get real spoilers for a story, get sucked into it, and then be surprised at what happens and how anyway? The map is not the territory.
There can also be times when you hear what gimmick a story hangs on and it's like - naw, I'm good, that's all I really needed to know. That's me with The Village. Or Undertale.
posted by StarkRoads at 11:51 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Anyone ever get real spoilers for a story, get sucked into it, and then be surprised at what happens and how anyway? The map is not the territory.
There can also be times when you hear what gimmick a story hangs on and it's like - naw, I'm good, that's all I really needed to know. That's me with The Village. Or Undertale.
posted by StarkRoads at 11:51 PM on October 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Twists and gimmicks are an interesting sub-set here. Sometimes the mere fact that you know a certain movie depends on a big twist is enough to ruin the experience - even if you've no idea what that twist might be. You spend the whole damn film primed for a twist of some kind and that in itself destroys the impact.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:02 AM on October 19, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 12:02 AM on October 19, 2020 [7 favorites]
They all get run over by a truck.
I think you mean "boat"
As I recall, it was a boat then a truck.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:05 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think you mean "boat"
As I recall, it was a boat then a truck.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:05 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
I haven't read Finnegan's Wake and don't know much about it but [according to this video, spoiler alert] maybe there's a steamroller involved in the big action packed finale?
posted by aubilenon at 12:57 AM on October 19, 2020
posted by aubilenon at 12:57 AM on October 19, 2020
They get run over by something that only in the end turns out to be a car. But they were dead the whole time, of course. Snape killed them.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 1:48 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 1:48 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
The dumbest part of these discussions is when people try to decide whether a work is "ruined" by a spoiler.
Some surprises are enjoyable. They might be slightly enjoyable or hugely enjoyable. Some surprises are boring, annoying, or even traumatic (trigger warnings are obviously the most important kind of spoiler, and those are good).
People who spoil good surprises are deciding that the pleasure of talking about the surprise right now outweighs (or is more important) than whatever pleasure someone might get from experiencing the surprise. Sometimes it does. But you shouldn't be comparing the pleasure of the surprise to the overall value of the work. You should compare it to the value of the conversation you want to have about it right now.
posted by straight at 2:28 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Some surprises are enjoyable. They might be slightly enjoyable or hugely enjoyable. Some surprises are boring, annoying, or even traumatic (trigger warnings are obviously the most important kind of spoiler, and those are good).
People who spoil good surprises are deciding that the pleasure of talking about the surprise right now outweighs (or is more important) than whatever pleasure someone might get from experiencing the surprise. Sometimes it does. But you shouldn't be comparing the pleasure of the surprise to the overall value of the work. You should compare it to the value of the conversation you want to have about it right now.
posted by straight at 2:28 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
It wasn't a boat. It was a yacht. And it wasn't actually in Finnegan's Wake as such; for the true ending we had to wait some years for the sequel, "Starsky and Hutch".
posted by flabdablet at 2:28 AM on October 19, 2020
posted by flabdablet at 2:28 AM on October 19, 2020
People who complain about spoilers usually aren't claiming that the surprise is the main pleasure or the most important part of the work. They're claiming that the surprise is more important or pleasurable than the conversation you want to have about it right now.
posted by straight at 2:36 AM on October 19, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by straight at 2:36 AM on October 19, 2020 [6 favorites]
Never before have I ever wanted to know how Finnegans Wake really ends.
posted by DanSachs at 2:54 AM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by DanSachs at 2:54 AM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
...serylalanylthreonylvalylasparaginylisoleucylhistidylisoleucylarginylserylisoleucine
posted by flabdablet at 3:51 AM on October 19, 2020
posted by flabdablet at 3:51 AM on October 19, 2020
Oh no, sorry, that was Ulysses.
posted by flabdablet at 3:51 AM on October 19, 2020
posted by flabdablet at 3:51 AM on October 19, 2020
But please f*** off if you're feeling compelled to tell me how Finnegan's Wake ends.
Samuel Beckett picks up his pen...
posted by deeker at 4:12 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Samuel Beckett picks up his pen...
posted by deeker at 4:12 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
I wonder if spoiler haters are the same people who will only see a movie/read a book once?
Not me. I love rereads and rewatches but am a spoiler avoider. I take recommendations, and unless someone I trust says to go in knowing nothing -- which happens, and indeed I am happy I knew nothing going into the new Susanna Clarke -- I generally have an idea of that plot etc, but I try not to find out too much about a book/movie/tv show that I am planning to read/watch.
posted by jeather at 4:19 AM on October 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
Not me. I love rereads and rewatches but am a spoiler avoider. I take recommendations, and unless someone I trust says to go in knowing nothing -- which happens, and indeed I am happy I knew nothing going into the new Susanna Clarke -- I generally have an idea of that plot etc, but I try not to find out too much about a book/movie/tv show that I am planning to read/watch.
posted by jeather at 4:19 AM on October 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
The earliest anti-spoiler admonition that I know of was in 1955, in the end credits of Les Diaboliques:
Ne soyez pas DIABOLIQUES! Ne détruisez pas l'intérêt que pourraient prendre vos amis à ce film. Ne leur racontez pas ce que vous avez vu. Merci pour eux. ("Don't be DIABOLICAL! Do not destroy the interest that your friends may have in this movie. Do not tell them what you have seen. Thank you, on their behalf.")[26][27]
posted by thelonius at 4:22 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Ne soyez pas DIABOLIQUES! Ne détruisez pas l'intérêt que pourraient prendre vos amis à ce film. Ne leur racontez pas ce que vous avez vu. Merci pour eux. ("Don't be DIABOLICAL! Do not destroy the interest that your friends may have in this movie. Do not tell them what you have seen. Thank you, on their behalf.")[26][27]
posted by thelonius at 4:22 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
please f*** off if you're feeling compelled to tell me how Finnegan's Wake ends
Pretty sure the spoiler statute of limitations has run out on this 80-year-old book.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 4:35 AM on October 19, 2020
Pretty sure the spoiler statute of limitations has run out on this 80-year-old book.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 4:35 AM on October 19, 2020
But please f*** off if you're feeling compelled to tell me how Finnegan's Wake ends.
“Wake” is Finnegan’s childhood sled 🛷
posted by donatella at 7:47 AM on October 19, 2020 [9 favorites]
“Wake” is Finnegan’s childhood sled 🛷
posted by donatella at 7:47 AM on October 19, 2020 [9 favorites]
Can't help but drop this story here:
Back in May 1980 everyone was all abuzz about that Star Wars sequel coming out, so of course one of the local TV stations in my upstate NY hometown sent a crew to do a story on the long lines and fandom and all that.
And (you can see this coming) they interviewed people coming *out* of the movie. The reporter asked one what he thought of the movie, and of course the guy says, "It was amazing when Darth Vader said he was Luke's father!"
Live spoiler for thousands and thousands of people, including tons of fans like me.
So adding one to the list: Don't watch local news on movie release days.
posted by martin q blank at 8:01 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Back in May 1980 everyone was all abuzz about that Star Wars sequel coming out, so of course one of the local TV stations in my upstate NY hometown sent a crew to do a story on the long lines and fandom and all that.
And (you can see this coming) they interviewed people coming *out* of the movie. The reporter asked one what he thought of the movie, and of course the guy says, "It was amazing when Darth Vader said he was Luke's father!"
Live spoiler for thousands and thousands of people, including tons of fans like me.
So adding one to the list: Don't watch local news on movie release days.
posted by martin q blank at 8:01 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
SPOILER: Finnegans Wake ends as it begins.
posted by njohnson23 at 8:02 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by njohnson23 at 8:02 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
sorry, did I say Finnegans Wake? I meant Ulysses.
posted by philip-random at 8:06 AM on October 19, 2020
posted by philip-random at 8:06 AM on October 19, 2020
I have somehow developed an almost-magical ability to watch movie trailers and retain almost nothing from them that could be construed as a spoiler. Basically, I turn off the part of my brain that tries to follow story and just try to take in the images and the overall tone. It maybe helps that, as commercials, I don’t necessarily expect trailers to be entirely representative of the product they’re selling. But I am forever turning to my wife and saying, “I didn’t know so-and-so was in this” and she is forever responding, “Dude, she was in the trailer.”
posted by Mothlight at 8:10 AM on October 19, 2020
posted by Mothlight at 8:10 AM on October 19, 2020
I have spent this thread trying to figure out why I am annoyed by the culture of spoiler-avoidance, and I think it's this:
It's really hard to do thoughtful, interesting criticism while avoiding spoiling significant plot twists and reveals. It's essentially impossible to do thoughtful, interesting criticism while avoiding anything that anyone might consider a spoiler. And 95% of the time, I am more interested in reading thoughtful, interesting criticism about the thing than I am in actually watching the thing.
Admittedly, this number would be lower if blockbuster movies were better. If I am more interested in discussions about fascist tendencies in superhero movies than I am in superhero movies, it's at least in part because I'm just not interested in most superhero movies. (But if they're going to dominate the discourse anyway, I can be perfectly content, as long as we can discuss something interesting about them!)
This shouldn't be a problem - criticism of things for people who have seen them (or haven't but don't care about getting spoiled) can happily coexist alongside reviews of things for people who don't want to be spoiled. But in practice, it seems like so many people try to thread the needle of writing serious think pieces that don't reveal any important information, and... it's just kind of half-assed at best, and impossible at worst, to really think through what a movie is doing if you can't talk about the implications of the ending or any big plot reveals.
Anyway, none of that means that people shouldn't be able to see a movie unspoiled if that's what they want, and of course people should be considerate about spoilers, and now that I'm very into a fandom for a 2/3-done trilogy, I've become reacquainted with that odd dance of wanting as much content and information as possible for a thing but not any spoilers*. I just want that to coexist better with good criticism.
*(A trilogy that I started reading just as my Twitter was buzzing with "Is X problematic as an example of the Bury Your Gays trope?," which meant I was fairly spoiled going into it, but that would've been a rough read if I hadn't been steeling myself for the ending.)
posted by Jeanne at 8:13 AM on October 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
It's really hard to do thoughtful, interesting criticism while avoiding spoiling significant plot twists and reveals. It's essentially impossible to do thoughtful, interesting criticism while avoiding anything that anyone might consider a spoiler. And 95% of the time, I am more interested in reading thoughtful, interesting criticism about the thing than I am in actually watching the thing.
Admittedly, this number would be lower if blockbuster movies were better. If I am more interested in discussions about fascist tendencies in superhero movies than I am in superhero movies, it's at least in part because I'm just not interested in most superhero movies. (But if they're going to dominate the discourse anyway, I can be perfectly content, as long as we can discuss something interesting about them!)
This shouldn't be a problem - criticism of things for people who have seen them (or haven't but don't care about getting spoiled) can happily coexist alongside reviews of things for people who don't want to be spoiled. But in practice, it seems like so many people try to thread the needle of writing serious think pieces that don't reveal any important information, and... it's just kind of half-assed at best, and impossible at worst, to really think through what a movie is doing if you can't talk about the implications of the ending or any big plot reveals.
Anyway, none of that means that people shouldn't be able to see a movie unspoiled if that's what they want, and of course people should be considerate about spoilers, and now that I'm very into a fandom for a 2/3-done trilogy, I've become reacquainted with that odd dance of wanting as much content and information as possible for a thing but not any spoilers*. I just want that to coexist better with good criticism.
*(A trilogy that I started reading just as my Twitter was buzzing with "Is X problematic as an example of the Bury Your Gays trope?," which meant I was fairly spoiled going into it, but that would've been a rough read if I hadn't been steeling myself for the ending.)
posted by Jeanne at 8:13 AM on October 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
Jeanne, maybe that's it. I read about a lot more movies than I actually see (books too, to some extent), because there aren't a lot of movies I really feel compelled to see. But I am interested in things like criticism that discusses movie trends, or historical accuracy, or what the director was trying to do. So spoilers don't apply for me to a lot of movies.
posted by emjaybee at 8:35 AM on October 19, 2020
posted by emjaybee at 8:35 AM on October 19, 2020
"sorry, did I say Finnegans Wake? I meant Ulysses."
Yes, you did.
posted by storybored at 8:46 AM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Yes, you did.
posted by storybored at 8:46 AM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I hate spoilers too, mostly because I want to experience the thing as intended by the creative crew, not marketing. I like not necessarily surprises but discovery!
That said, my most successful strategy is not seeing anything until years after release.
Bonus: I don't have to change any of my social/social media habits because I have the memory slightly better than a goldfish.
posted by mazola at 8:55 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
That said, my most successful strategy is not seeing anything until years after release.
Bonus: I don't have to change any of my social/social media habits because I have the memory slightly better than a goldfish.
posted by mazola at 8:55 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Never before have I ever wanted to know how Finnegans Wake really ends.
It's right there in the title. Finnegan wakes up.
posted by msbrauer at 9:17 AM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
It's right there in the title. Finnegan wakes up.
posted by msbrauer at 9:17 AM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Never before have I ever wanted to know how Finnegans Wake really ends.
He becomes woke.
posted by mazola at 9:24 AM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
He becomes woke.
posted by mazola at 9:24 AM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I have spent this thread trying to figure out why I am annoyed by the culture of spoiler-avoidance, and I think it's this:
It's really hard to do thoughtful, interesting criticism while avoiding spoiling significant plot twists and reveals. It's essentially impossible to do thoughtful, interesting criticism while avoiding anything that anyone might consider a spoiler. And 95% of the time, I am more interested in reading thoughtful, interesting criticism about the thing than I am in actually watching the thing.
I also agree with being way more interested in the criticism than the product itself (generally), but I have to see it first because I want to understand the criticism from my own lens, so reading criticism of a movie I have not seen doesn't do much for me. When I do read the criticism first and then watch the product, I'm generally annoyed because so much of it comes off more like stealth marketing material than actual criticism. (Netflix tv show Haunting of Hill House reviews would be an example).
I don't have that much issue with avoiding spoilers because I live outside the extremely targeted ad streams.
So new Star Wars, newer Harry Potter, Avengers, Game of Thrones? No idea, haven't seen them yet. Want to, just haven't yet. No idea what they are about.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:29 AM on October 19, 2020
It's really hard to do thoughtful, interesting criticism while avoiding spoiling significant plot twists and reveals. It's essentially impossible to do thoughtful, interesting criticism while avoiding anything that anyone might consider a spoiler. And 95% of the time, I am more interested in reading thoughtful, interesting criticism about the thing than I am in actually watching the thing.
I also agree with being way more interested in the criticism than the product itself (generally), but I have to see it first because I want to understand the criticism from my own lens, so reading criticism of a movie I have not seen doesn't do much for me. When I do read the criticism first and then watch the product, I'm generally annoyed because so much of it comes off more like stealth marketing material than actual criticism. (Netflix tv show Haunting of Hill House reviews would be an example).
I don't have that much issue with avoiding spoilers because I live outside the extremely targeted ad streams.
So new Star Wars, newer Harry Potter, Avengers, Game of Thrones? No idea, haven't seen them yet. Want to, just haven't yet. No idea what they are about.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:29 AM on October 19, 2020
Finnegan, having lost his fortune, goes on a bank robbing spree with Daisy during the Great Depression and becomes a folk hero.
posted by benzenedream at 9:39 AM on October 19, 2020
posted by benzenedream at 9:39 AM on October 19, 2020
Wait except my favorite flavor of Dum-Dum lollipops is "Mystery" so I guess I don't even know what I like any more.
The mystery flavors are just mixes that happens when they switch flavors on the production line. Instead of cleaning out the entire line between flavors they just let the new flavor run through until it pushes out the previous flavor. To save costs, instead of throwing out the mixed batch they just package it in the mystery wrappers and include them in the assorted bags.
This makes me want to ask the question of how often they actually clean out the line or if it's just been running for years on end.
There might be a metaphor for major motion pictures and film studios in here somewhere.
posted by loquacious at 9:40 AM on October 19, 2020 [7 favorites]
The mystery flavors are just mixes that happens when they switch flavors on the production line. Instead of cleaning out the entire line between flavors they just let the new flavor run through until it pushes out the previous flavor. To save costs, instead of throwing out the mixed batch they just package it in the mystery wrappers and include them in the assorted bags.
This makes me want to ask the question of how often they actually clean out the line or if it's just been running for years on end.
There might be a metaphor for major motion pictures and film studios in here somewhere.
posted by loquacious at 9:40 AM on October 19, 2020 [7 favorites]
Decades ago, before we were even married, my wife was about 1/3 of the way through reading The Brothers Karamazov. I asked her if she got to the point where they steal the horses yet. No, she replied, she did not. She spent the entire book wondering when they were going to steal horses. We chuckle about that to this day. Now, when we leave a theater, if there are people lined up, not matter what the movie is about, I might loudly say to her "I can't believe they stole those horses!" Reader, I am a sinner and I know I will go to hell.
posted by hypnogogue at 10:33 AM on October 19, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by hypnogogue at 10:33 AM on October 19, 2020 [15 favorites]
This guy must find titles like How Stella Got Her Groove Back* soooo frustrating.
I also made it about 3 mins into the video, because if people gave half as many shits about climate change or electoral reform as this pigmentless caricature does about the content of media he might someday consume, we we wouldn't be in this mess. (I know, people can care about more than one thing, but sheesh).
*also the original subtitle and missing chapter of Finnegan's Wake
posted by aspersioncast at 10:44 AM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
I also made it about 3 mins into the video, because if people gave half as many shits about climate change or electoral reform as this pigmentless caricature does about the content of media he might someday consume, we we wouldn't be in this mess. (I know, people can care about more than one thing, but sheesh).
*also the original subtitle and missing chapter of Finnegan's Wake
posted by aspersioncast at 10:44 AM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
It's really hard to do thoughtful, interesting criticism while avoiding spoiling significant plot twists and reveals.
I've seen this sentiment repeated here and there, and it's baffling because it's simply not true. A simple line at the beginning ("This essay/article/comment discusses elements from WORK") is all you need. Anyone reading beyond that does so at their own risk.
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:11 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
I've seen this sentiment repeated here and there, and it's baffling because it's simply not true. A simple line at the beginning ("This essay/article/comment discusses elements from WORK") is all you need. Anyone reading beyond that does so at their own risk.
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:11 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
The term "spoiler" itself is kind of the problem, because it implies a value judgment and inevitably leads to discussions about whether it ruins the experience or not, the value of twists or gimmicks, etc.
But the actual problem with spoilers is what No One Ever Does identifies above:
If you haven't been spoiled, you can watch a movie with no knowledge of what's going to happen, and then watch it again with knowledge of what's going to happen.
With spoilers, you're limited to watching movies with knowledge of what's going to happen.
Whether or not a spoiler makes experiencing a work better or worse, it will at least make the experience different. You can only experience a work without prior knowledge of its content once. People should be able to decide for themselves whether they want that experience, and other people should respect that choice by avoiding spoilers.
Of course, this is all within reason on both sides (avoiding spoilers and avoiding giving spoilers), but the fundamental idea is pretty simple and noncontroversial.
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:17 AM on October 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
But the actual problem with spoilers is what No One Ever Does identifies above:
If you haven't been spoiled, you can watch a movie with no knowledge of what's going to happen, and then watch it again with knowledge of what's going to happen.
With spoilers, you're limited to watching movies with knowledge of what's going to happen.
Whether or not a spoiler makes experiencing a work better or worse, it will at least make the experience different. You can only experience a work without prior knowledge of its content once. People should be able to decide for themselves whether they want that experience, and other people should respect that choice by avoiding spoilers.
Of course, this is all within reason on both sides (avoiding spoilers and avoiding giving spoilers), but the fundamental idea is pretty simple and noncontroversial.
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:17 AM on October 19, 2020 [4 favorites]
A simple line at the beginning ("This essay/article/comment discusses elements from WORK") is all you need. Anyone reading beyond that does so at their own risk.
Fair enough, but I wish people would do that and not
posted by Jeanne at 11:25 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Fair enough, but I wish people would do that and not
Everything changes when Grace’s mother is shot one day outside of a grocery store (Grace is also present). Old wounds reopen, secrets are revealed, and the fate of these two families are once again intertwined. It’s difficult to write about the novel without giving away too much—there are some predictable twists and a few surprising turns—but the characters’ traumatic narratives are handled with a clear-eyed and impressive sensitivity.To give one example of a review where almost everything interesting you could say about a book is unsayable if you're trying to avoid saying the premise, the whole reason the book is about these two families in the first place.
posted by Jeanne at 11:25 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Reader, I am a sinner and I know I will go to hell.
I saw Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade on opening day. As we left the theater afterwards, my then-boyfriend (whose sense of humor was already beginning to wear on me) loudly said "I know they said this was going to be the last movie, but I can't believe they killed him!"
I ducked my head to avoid the glares of the people in line and walked to the car as fast as I could.
posted by Lexica at 11:26 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
I saw Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade on opening day. As we left the theater afterwards, my then-boyfriend (whose sense of humor was already beginning to wear on me) loudly said "I know they said this was going to be the last movie, but I can't believe they killed him!"
I ducked my head to avoid the glares of the people in line and walked to the car as fast as I could.
posted by Lexica at 11:26 AM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
On a related note: Washington Post article by a book critic:
The novel I’m reading has a terrible ending. But I’ll never tell you its title.posted by jenfullmoon at 12:07 PM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
Such is the necessary restraint of a book reviewer — or at least a courteous one.
I go back and forth about the propriety of burying my appraisal of a book’s conclusion. After all, so much of how we feel about a novel depends on how the novel ends. But there’s really no way to critique a story’s ending without giving it away, which, according to my mail, is the single most irritating thing a reviewer can do. So, week after week, I bite my tongue, withholding whatever I might think about finales.
In discussion: ask if someone wants to be spoiled or not. (Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't!) Also ask how much! It's not that hard! And if you know you're going to be overheard by other people who may or may not know the material yet, you're an asshole if you start yelling out spoilers. (Not counting 80-year-old books that end with everyone realizing Finnegan was actually a large, sentient bowl of oatmeal the whole time.)
In writing/video reviews or criticisms: "This article/review/video/listicle will reveal plot points of $WORK that some may consider spoilers. Read/watch at your own risk."
On social media? You're on your own, man. There's just nothing we can do about it, that ship has sailed, there's no going back now. Sucks, but here we are.
posted by tzikeh at 7:04 PM on October 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
In writing/video reviews or criticisms: "This article/review/video/listicle will reveal plot points of $WORK that some may consider spoilers. Read/watch at your own risk."
On social media? You're on your own, man. There's just nothing we can do about it, that ship has sailed, there's no going back now. Sucks, but here we are.
posted by tzikeh at 7:04 PM on October 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
I had a friend get mad at me -- literally furious -- for (accidentally!) spoiling Moby Dick, which is coincidentally also the ending of Finnegans Wake.
But I feel like the statute of limitations on spoilers runs out considerably before 170 years and some people are truly, deeply ridiculous about spoilers.
Personally, if I find a movie good and emotionally-involving, I completely forget about plot twists and spoilers. I've probably watched Apollo 13 two dozen times, and it's a real thing that really happened, and every single damn time I get super nervous about whether they're going to survive. (It drives my husband crazy, he'll be like, "Oh, look, there's the murderer!" and I'm like "WHY WOULD YOU RUIN THE MOVIE!?" and he's like "We've watched this movie SIX TIMES!") On the other hand, some plot twists seem very obvious to me; the first time Bruce Willis talks to the little boy in Sixth Sense, I went, "Oh, interesting, Bruce Willis is dead," and then spent the entire rest of the movie waiting for the famous twist. I thought that was just part of the exposition! So I don't always have a great sense of what other people will consider spoilers or not spoilers. (So I generally ask before discussing movies or shows with people.)
Anyway, I generally don't mind being spoiled and it doesn't much affect my enjoyment of media one way or the other. The Good Place is the one thing I've seen in the last decade or so that I felt was significantly, significantly improved by going in with no expectations or knowledge.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:05 PM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
But I feel like the statute of limitations on spoilers runs out considerably before 170 years and some people are truly, deeply ridiculous about spoilers.
Personally, if I find a movie good and emotionally-involving, I completely forget about plot twists and spoilers. I've probably watched Apollo 13 two dozen times, and it's a real thing that really happened, and every single damn time I get super nervous about whether they're going to survive. (It drives my husband crazy, he'll be like, "Oh, look, there's the murderer!" and I'm like "WHY WOULD YOU RUIN THE MOVIE!?" and he's like "We've watched this movie SIX TIMES!") On the other hand, some plot twists seem very obvious to me; the first time Bruce Willis talks to the little boy in Sixth Sense, I went, "Oh, interesting, Bruce Willis is dead," and then spent the entire rest of the movie waiting for the famous twist. I thought that was just part of the exposition! So I don't always have a great sense of what other people will consider spoilers or not spoilers. (So I generally ask before discussing movies or shows with people.)
Anyway, I generally don't mind being spoiled and it doesn't much affect my enjoyment of media one way or the other. The Good Place is the one thing I've seen in the last decade or so that I felt was significantly, significantly improved by going in with no expectations or knowledge.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:05 PM on October 19, 2020 [1 favorite]
if you know you're going to be overheard by other people who may or may not know the material yet, you're an asshole if you start yelling out spoilers.
Anyone who divulges info about a work to people who don't want to hear it is a jerk, but at the same time, demanding people who are enjoying discussing all the details of a work stop because "you" haven't yet seen or heard it can also be "spoiling" pleasure for others by placing one's own possible future pleasures as more important than that of the current actual pleasures of the group.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:17 PM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
Anyone who divulges info about a work to people who don't want to hear it is a jerk, but at the same time, demanding people who are enjoying discussing all the details of a work stop because "you" haven't yet seen or heard it can also be "spoiling" pleasure for others by placing one's own possible future pleasures as more important than that of the current actual pleasures of the group.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:17 PM on October 19, 2020 [2 favorites]
A simple line at the beginning ("This essay/article/comment discusses elements from WORK") is all you need. Anyone reading beyond that does so at their own risk.
This is what they do in the film magazine Sight & Sound, but it's not really an answer. If I read on past the disclaimer, I'm going to encounter spoilers I might mot want to see. If I don't, my only option is to skip the whole review, and hence never realise it's a movie I would have enjoyed.
In about 90% of cases, a little more care from the reviewer or (in this case) the magazine's editor could have avoided the problem entirely.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:36 AM on October 20, 2020
This is what they do in the film magazine Sight & Sound, but it's not really an answer. If I read on past the disclaimer, I'm going to encounter spoilers I might mot want to see. If I don't, my only option is to skip the whole review, and hence never realise it's a movie I would have enjoyed.
In about 90% of cases, a little more care from the reviewer or (in this case) the magazine's editor could have avoided the problem entirely.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:36 AM on October 20, 2020
I'm that total weirdo who actively seeks out spoilers, because I have a limited amount of time to spend on media nowadays, and I don't want to watch something that doesn't look like I'm gonna like it.
(This is also where I plug the website DoesTheDogDie.com, useful for finding triggers before watching a thing.)
posted by XtinaS at 10:05 AM on October 20, 2020
(This is also where I plug the website DoesTheDogDie.com, useful for finding triggers before watching a thing.)
posted by XtinaS at 10:05 AM on October 20, 2020
I am also a spoiler seeker. I have limited time to watch lazy twist movies and if I read a plot description and it still intrigues me, I'll probably seek it out. An example would be Under the Skin, which I read the entire plot of, but which didn't diminish my appreciation for the film at all.
posted by benzenedream at 10:31 AM on October 20, 2020
posted by benzenedream at 10:31 AM on October 20, 2020
Kind of like Does The Dog Die?, the website Unconsenting Media is a database tracking sexual violence in films and TV shows.
There's also The Rotten Apples which looks at whether anyone involved in the creation of a film/TV show has been accused of sexual assault or harassment.
posted by Lexica at 1:24 PM on October 20, 2020
There's also The Rotten Apples which looks at whether anyone involved in the creation of a film/TV show has been accused of sexual assault or harassment.
posted by Lexica at 1:24 PM on October 20, 2020
When I left the first showing of The Empire Strikes Back, I grabbed the guy in the front of the line for the second showing and loudly exclaimed my surprise that Darth Vader was Luke Skywalker's father.
Important detail: this was the 1998 re-release. I was 100% certain that everyone in line to see this movie at midnight had somehow managed to see it during its previous twenty years.
Isn't Finnegan's Wake the one where Dumbledore kills Snape?
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 9:41 PM on October 20, 2020
Important detail: this was the 1998 re-release. I was 100% certain that everyone in line to see this movie at midnight had somehow managed to see it during its previous twenty years.
Isn't Finnegan's Wake the one where Dumbledore kills Snape?
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 9:41 PM on October 20, 2020
pretty sure that's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
posted by philip-random at 10:15 PM on October 20, 2020
posted by philip-random at 10:15 PM on October 20, 2020
If I read on past the disclaimer, I'm going to encounter spoilers I might mot want to see. If I don't, my only option is to skip the whole review, and hence never realise it's a movie I would have enjoyed.
I wish there was widespread recognition that a review designed to help you decide whether or not to watch a movie is a fundamentally different kind of article than a critical analysis of a movie designed to be read after watching the movie.
posted by straight at 11:42 AM on October 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
I wish there was widespread recognition that a review designed to help you decide whether or not to watch a movie is a fundamentally different kind of article than a critical analysis of a movie designed to be read after watching the movie.
posted by straight at 11:42 AM on October 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
(So I generally ask before discussing movies or shows with people.)
If someone's engagement is this simultaneously fragile and superficial, I really don't think they deserve that much glad-handling.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:40 PM on October 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
If someone's engagement is this simultaneously fragile and superficial, I really don't think they deserve that much glad-handling.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:40 PM on October 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
« Older From pen plotters to light installations | The hydrogen economy is dead. Long live the... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Mizu at 1:12 PM on October 18, 2020