Trader Joe's Fearful Flyer
March 1, 2021 11:49 AM Subscribe
Trader Joe's employee fired for advocating better safety in stores
Examples of antimaskers targeted Trader Joe's previously:
Santa Cruz Trader Joe's Anti-Masker Invasion
Second Wave Of Anti-Masker Protests At Santa Cruz Trader Joe's
'Burn the mask' protest temporarily shutters Fresno Trader Joe's
Ben Bonnema, who worked at the store’s 545 branch on the Upper West Side in New York city, said he wrote to the company’s CEO Dan Bane in February, pointing to new studies about aerosol transmission of Covid-19 and calling for a series of safety measures – including better air filtration, limits to store capacity based on CO2 levels and a “three strikes policy” for customers who refuse to wear a mask.
Examples of antimaskers targeted Trader Joe's previously:
Santa Cruz Trader Joe's Anti-Masker Invasion
Second Wave Of Anti-Masker Protests At Santa Cruz Trader Joe's
'Burn the mask' protest temporarily shutters Fresno Trader Joe's
Previously: Trader Joes suppressing unions (April 2020)
Trader Joe's also seems to be a holdout for avoiding curbside pickup, which is just generally a bad business decision.
posted by meowzilla at 12:05 PM on March 1, 2021 [12 favorites]
Trader Joe's also seems to be a holdout for avoiding curbside pickup, which is just generally a bad business decision.
posted by meowzilla at 12:05 PM on March 1, 2021 [12 favorites]
Trader Joe's also seems to be a holdout for avoiding curbside pickup, which is just generally a bad business decision.
I disagree. While something might be a bad health decision (because of covid), developing both an app and an inventory tracker and the store resources to manage store pickup is not a trivial thing, especially when TJs already makes very little margin on products compared to bigger grocers.
posted by bbqturtle at 12:08 PM on March 1, 2021 [14 favorites]
I disagree. While something might be a bad health decision (because of covid), developing both an app and an inventory tracker and the store resources to manage store pickup is not a trivial thing, especially when TJs already makes very little margin on products compared to bigger grocers.
posted by bbqturtle at 12:08 PM on March 1, 2021 [14 favorites]
Maybe it's my USA-propaganda-filled-upbringing, but I find unions an odd choice for low-skilled jobs.
I was an employee at Meijer, and that grocery chain's unions forced all employees to be members. What that meant, in the two years I worked there, was twofold.
First, is that I got a scheduled, not-tied-to-performance, under-inflation raise of $0.15 above the minimum wage starting benefit I received. Before receiving that $0.15 promotion, I had to pay union dues of $20/pay period, putting my wage below minimum.
Second, is that on my team (in the photo/electronics department) was an elected "union rep". Our department often put two people on shift. If the union rep was on the shift, they would spend their time at work doing "union duties" instead of helping with the enormous workload we had (developing, cleaning, etc).
Since then, my other encounter with unions is the news of the Hostess Union shutting down the Hostess plant, and being partially responsible for Hostess closing down.
I'm not here to bash unions.
Is there something I'm missing for what the union provided me at my grocery store, besides costing me money and a teammate? Like, maybe, if an elderly person earned 30 $0.15 annual pay increases and was earning $3 above minimum wage, the union protected them from getting fired? Is that the general allure of Unions for low wage jobs, protecting against being unduly fired?
posted by bbqturtle at 12:16 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
I was an employee at Meijer, and that grocery chain's unions forced all employees to be members. What that meant, in the two years I worked there, was twofold.
First, is that I got a scheduled, not-tied-to-performance, under-inflation raise of $0.15 above the minimum wage starting benefit I received. Before receiving that $0.15 promotion, I had to pay union dues of $20/pay period, putting my wage below minimum.
Second, is that on my team (in the photo/electronics department) was an elected "union rep". Our department often put two people on shift. If the union rep was on the shift, they would spend their time at work doing "union duties" instead of helping with the enormous workload we had (developing, cleaning, etc).
Since then, my other encounter with unions is the news of the Hostess Union shutting down the Hostess plant, and being partially responsible for Hostess closing down.
I'm not here to bash unions.
Is there something I'm missing for what the union provided me at my grocery store, besides costing me money and a teammate? Like, maybe, if an elderly person earned 30 $0.15 annual pay increases and was earning $3 above minimum wage, the union protected them from getting fired? Is that the general allure of Unions for low wage jobs, protecting against being unduly fired?
posted by bbqturtle at 12:16 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
Is there something I'm missing for what the union provided me at my grocery store, besides costing me money and a teammate?
bbqturtle, that seems like a comment that would be much better suited for another thread about unions. I hope this thread can have a discussion about TFA and Trader Joe's specifically, and not spin off into a tangent about unions unless it's clearly related.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:22 PM on March 1, 2021 [68 favorites]
bbqturtle, that seems like a comment that would be much better suited for another thread about unions. I hope this thread can have a discussion about TFA and Trader Joe's specifically, and not spin off into a tangent about unions unless it's clearly related.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:22 PM on March 1, 2021 [68 favorites]
I'm not here to bash unions.
Yes, you are. Given that your statements were to begrudge your coworkers access to their steward and to repeat corporate propaganda, there's no other conclusion to take from your argument.
Is that the general allure of Unions for low wage jobs, protecting against being unduly fired?
One part among many, and given how capricious firing can be, it's a major one for many union workers.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:24 PM on March 1, 2021 [58 favorites]
Yes, you are. Given that your statements were to begrudge your coworkers access to their steward and to repeat corporate propaganda, there's no other conclusion to take from your argument.
Is that the general allure of Unions for low wage jobs, protecting against being unduly fired?
One part among many, and given how capricious firing can be, it's a major one for many union workers.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:24 PM on March 1, 2021 [58 favorites]
I cannot possible fathom how a company owned by Amazon, which is so heavily pro-union, would be so anti-union. Next, you'll tell me that Amazon will force its streaming subsidiaries to air anti-union ads!
posted by gwydapllew at 12:28 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by gwydapllew at 12:28 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
Trader Joe's is owned by Aldi (or the family that owns Aldi), not Amazon. Amazon owns Whole Foods.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:31 PM on March 1, 2021 [36 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 12:31 PM on March 1, 2021 [36 favorites]
gwydapllew—I think you're thinking of Whole Foods.
posted by adamrice at 12:32 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 12:32 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]
developing both a [curbside pickup] app and an inventory tracker and the store resources to manage store pickup is not a trivial thing, especially when TJs already makes very little margin on products compared to bigger grocers.
They've made nothing off the grocery buys I haven't made from TJs since the pandemic started (I was absolutely a regular shopper up until), and I've been willing to buy from grocers who have added fees or minimums for pickup.
And in general, I have to believe the grocers have seen a *huge* increase in demand as people have chosen to eat out less and invest more in cooking at home.
Better inventory management seems like it could yield in so many ways, too.
But ultimately, I'm not even sure this is a technical problem. Designate or hire pickers as demand dictates, have someone take orders over phone or email for a time within a pickup window. An app can *help* with that, but it's not necessary.
Of course, maybe no one is imposing the necessity of further precautions for workers or customers on TJ's either, and that's fine. I miss a few of their particulars but ultimately I can live a perfectly comfortable and pleasant life never walking through their doors again, and they apparently can do perfectly reasonable business from customers who don't care about things I do.
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:33 PM on March 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
They've made nothing off the grocery buys I haven't made from TJs since the pandemic started (I was absolutely a regular shopper up until), and I've been willing to buy from grocers who have added fees or minimums for pickup.
And in general, I have to believe the grocers have seen a *huge* increase in demand as people have chosen to eat out less and invest more in cooking at home.
Better inventory management seems like it could yield in so many ways, too.
But ultimately, I'm not even sure this is a technical problem. Designate or hire pickers as demand dictates, have someone take orders over phone or email for a time within a pickup window. An app can *help* with that, but it's not necessary.
Of course, maybe no one is imposing the necessity of further precautions for workers or customers on TJ's either, and that's fine. I miss a few of their particulars but ultimately I can live a perfectly comfortable and pleasant life never walking through their doors again, and they apparently can do perfectly reasonable business from customers who don't care about things I do.
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:33 PM on March 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
I go to Trader Joe's soley for the Ghost Pepper potato chips. Apparently I am willing to risk my life for them. I do limit my trips by buying up to 10 bags at a time. Worth it to put on my mask/gaiter for them.
posted by AugustWest at 12:50 PM on March 1, 2021
posted by AugustWest at 12:50 PM on March 1, 2021
Given that your statements were to begrudge your coworkers access to their steward and to repeat corporate propaganda, there's no other conclusion to take from your argument.
Unions are subject to agency risk and systemic capture. Grocery store worker unions are a common example of that. I ran into the same kind of thing as bbqturtle when I was 18 years old and working at Dominick's.
This is a confounding thing, because somebody criticizing a union for being a shitty corrupt example of a union looks and sounds a lot like somebody criticizing unions in general because they want to tear them all away. So are you attempting to blanket silence the criticism? Because that, sure as hell, is a way to ensure that shitty corrupt unions get to remain shitty and corrupt. Which, not coincidentally, makes for great advertising copy for the anti-unionists, because they can point to what a shitty job the union is doing.
I don't have any ideas how to avoid that agency risk, but I DID want to present my objection to your assertion that "there's no other conclusion to take from your argument." Because I just presented one, right here.
posted by notoriety public at 12:58 PM on March 1, 2021 [71 favorites]
Unions are subject to agency risk and systemic capture. Grocery store worker unions are a common example of that. I ran into the same kind of thing as bbqturtle when I was 18 years old and working at Dominick's.
This is a confounding thing, because somebody criticizing a union for being a shitty corrupt example of a union looks and sounds a lot like somebody criticizing unions in general because they want to tear them all away. So are you attempting to blanket silence the criticism? Because that, sure as hell, is a way to ensure that shitty corrupt unions get to remain shitty and corrupt. Which, not coincidentally, makes for great advertising copy for the anti-unionists, because they can point to what a shitty job the union is doing.
I don't have any ideas how to avoid that agency risk, but I DID want to present my objection to your assertion that "there's no other conclusion to take from your argument." Because I just presented one, right here.
posted by notoriety public at 12:58 PM on March 1, 2021 [71 favorites]
They've made nothing off the grocery buys I haven't made from TJs since the pandemic started (I was absolutely a regular shopper up until), and I've been willing to buy from grocers who have added fees or minimums for pickup.
Conversely, they have made much more from me during the pandemic as they are the only grocery store in my area that pays any attention to capacity limits, that requires masks upon entry and has maintained the same level of staffing.
posted by madajb at 1:02 PM on March 1, 2021 [17 favorites]
Conversely, they have made much more from me during the pandemic as they are the only grocery store in my area that pays any attention to capacity limits, that requires masks upon entry and has maintained the same level of staffing.
posted by madajb at 1:02 PM on March 1, 2021 [17 favorites]
The utter pomposity of our user base any time someone questions the unquestionable virtue of unions is beyond infuriating.
posted by hototogisu at 1:10 PM on March 1, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by hototogisu at 1:10 PM on March 1, 2021 [25 favorites]
A global pandemic is a terrible, if effective way to out businesses that treat their employees as expendable and disposable. I have added Trader Joes to the list of places I won't visit again, including Kroger, QFC, and Fred Meyer, and I hope Mr. Bonnema is successful in the courts.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:11 PM on March 1, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:11 PM on March 1, 2021 [8 favorites]
Ah yeah, I did confuse Trader Joe's with Whole Foods. I rarely shop at either of them, and they both occupy the same space in my 'where am I buying this at?' noggin-space.
Such a shame to waste good snark.
posted by gwydapllew at 1:16 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
Such a shame to waste good snark.
posted by gwydapllew at 1:16 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
I love Trader Joe's products. I do not love Trader Joe's management firing an employee for advocating better safety in stores. I think we should all make a stink about this to our local stores and to the US management.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:17 PM on March 1, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 1:17 PM on March 1, 2021 [14 favorites]
This is a confounding thing, because somebody criticizing a union for being a shitty corrupt example of a union looks and sounds a lot like somebody criticizing unions in general because they want to tear them all away.
No, they don't. It is actually possible to argue against corrupt or otherwise bad union policies without sounding like you're completely anti-union. What it takes is not starting off by questioning the value of unions in the first place (and especially questioning their value for the most vulnerable in the workforce) and not repeating corporate anti-union propaganda unquestioningly.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:21 PM on March 1, 2021 [36 favorites]
No, they don't. It is actually possible to argue against corrupt or otherwise bad union policies without sounding like you're completely anti-union. What it takes is not starting off by questioning the value of unions in the first place (and especially questioning their value for the most vulnerable in the workforce) and not repeating corporate anti-union propaganda unquestioningly.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:21 PM on March 1, 2021 [36 favorites]
Conversely, they have made much more from me during the pandemic as they are the only grocery store in my area that pays any attention to capacity limits, that requires masks upon entry and has maintained the same level of staffing.
Glad they're serving someone well! Ultimately I do think it'd be better for safety if almost all orders were pickup these days (and post-pandemic I may well continue to prefer pickup just for the convenience)... but it's also probably better that the world doesn't entirely revolve me and that businesses can do well making choices that aren't mine.
posted by wildblueyonder at 1:22 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Glad they're serving someone well! Ultimately I do think it'd be better for safety if almost all orders were pickup these days (and post-pandemic I may well continue to prefer pickup just for the convenience)... but it's also probably better that the world doesn't entirely revolve me and that businesses can do well making choices that aren't mine.
posted by wildblueyonder at 1:22 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Given that your statements were to begrudge your coworkers access to their steward and to repeat corporate propaganda, there's no other conclusion to take from your argument.
Not to pile on, but having just read through the state-of-MF thread, I do think that kind of jumping-down-the-throat in response to a somewhat "off script" remark can be a little alienating. I took it as a question made in good faith and I think it's important to contend with it. I'm currently part of a group fighting for graduate student unionization at my institution, and I hear these kinds of comments from people who are still broadly receptive to the idea of collective bargaining. Knee-jerk defense of unions without acknowledging their shortcomings, particularly in the US, makes it seem as if pro-union activists are merely concerned with accruing power.
To answer the original question: I believe unions still can benefit low-skilled labor, although the effects may be felt over a longer period than your two years. As a more senior employee with higher wages, you wouldn't be at risk of replacement by a new hire at lower pay. Or, if you became, say, pregnant (or harassed, or sick) and were subsequently fired, it's my understanding that your only recourse sans union would be to file & fund an illegal termination suit. There also may have been benefits outside of direct compensation (although I couldn't say without more information).
But to be honest---I still have a lot to learn about the relative advantages. I'd like to see more these kinds of discussions around unions in left-leaning fora, even if only for the selfish reason of becoming more informed when dealing with university administrators, recalcitrant colleagues, etc.
posted by hoyle at 1:23 PM on March 1, 2021 [39 favorites]
Not to pile on, but having just read through the state-of-MF thread, I do think that kind of jumping-down-the-throat in response to a somewhat "off script" remark can be a little alienating. I took it as a question made in good faith and I think it's important to contend with it. I'm currently part of a group fighting for graduate student unionization at my institution, and I hear these kinds of comments from people who are still broadly receptive to the idea of collective bargaining. Knee-jerk defense of unions without acknowledging their shortcomings, particularly in the US, makes it seem as if pro-union activists are merely concerned with accruing power.
To answer the original question: I believe unions still can benefit low-skilled labor, although the effects may be felt over a longer period than your two years. As a more senior employee with higher wages, you wouldn't be at risk of replacement by a new hire at lower pay. Or, if you became, say, pregnant (or harassed, or sick) and were subsequently fired, it's my understanding that your only recourse sans union would be to file & fund an illegal termination suit. There also may have been benefits outside of direct compensation (although I couldn't say without more information).
But to be honest---I still have a lot to learn about the relative advantages. I'd like to see more these kinds of discussions around unions in left-leaning fora, even if only for the selfish reason of becoming more informed when dealing with university administrators, recalcitrant colleagues, etc.
posted by hoyle at 1:23 PM on March 1, 2021 [39 favorites]
developing both an app and an inventory tracker and the store resources to manage store pickup is not a trivial thing
Yeah that was a great reason in March 2020. Sounds like sheer stubborn stupidity in March 2021.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 1:27 PM on March 1, 2021 [17 favorites]
Yeah that was a great reason in March 2020. Sounds like sheer stubborn stupidity in March 2021.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 1:27 PM on March 1, 2021 [17 favorites]
(Meant to add that the restaurants in my city that have stayed in business were the ones that adapted quickly and opened right up for take-out. The ones that closed last March and claimed they couldn't transition their concept for whatever reason have all tanked. TJ's may be doing fine with their current business model, but I do wish they'd taken the opportunity to become more accessible to customers who can't shop in person, rather than hiding behind tech excuses.)
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 1:32 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 1:32 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
I wonder if the experiences of Trader Joe's employees is highly store-specific?
My experience with my local Trader Joe's has been that they've been REALLY careful about limiting capacity, insisting on masks (to the point of repeatedly, politely telling a customer that he'd have to leave if he didn't keep his mask up over his nose), and even walking the lines outside the store instructing customers about keeping their carts with them (to avoid accidentally touching someone else's groceries, and to help maintain distance from others) and keeping employees and other customers safe.
In brief chats with employees, I think I've actually been told that some stores have been great, and others have been pretty bad.
I'm definitely not happy about him being fired for simply writing a letter and requesting better treatment. But my local TJs clearly treats its employs noticeably better than other local grocery stores, so I'm happy to keep supporting my locals.
posted by kristi at 1:34 PM on March 1, 2021 [11 favorites]
My experience with my local Trader Joe's has been that they've been REALLY careful about limiting capacity, insisting on masks (to the point of repeatedly, politely telling a customer that he'd have to leave if he didn't keep his mask up over his nose), and even walking the lines outside the store instructing customers about keeping their carts with them (to avoid accidentally touching someone else's groceries, and to help maintain distance from others) and keeping employees and other customers safe.
In brief chats with employees, I think I've actually been told that some stores have been great, and others have been pretty bad.
I'm definitely not happy about him being fired for simply writing a letter and requesting better treatment. But my local TJs clearly treats its employs noticeably better than other local grocery stores, so I'm happy to keep supporting my locals.
posted by kristi at 1:34 PM on March 1, 2021 [11 favorites]
At our business we bought a UV-C disinfection lamp that installs in our HVAC ductwork. The whole thing cost $500 with installation. Not a ton of money. I don't know why everyone doesn't do that. I would like to see OSHA address aerosol transmission.
Regarding unions, I am ambivalent. On the one hand they are absolutely necessary for collective bargaining. On the other hand, they are just as susceptible to capture and corruption as any other institution. But since the trend over the last 40 years has been one defeat after another, at the present time I think it's very important to support them to restore power parity.
posted by hypnogogue at 1:37 PM on March 1, 2021 [13 favorites]
Regarding unions, I am ambivalent. On the one hand they are absolutely necessary for collective bargaining. On the other hand, they are just as susceptible to capture and corruption as any other institution. But since the trend over the last 40 years has been one defeat after another, at the present time I think it's very important to support them to restore power parity.
posted by hypnogogue at 1:37 PM on March 1, 2021 [13 favorites]
On the other hand, they are just as susceptible to capture and corruption as any other institution.
This is true of virtually any institution employees might build to fight capital. The solution can't be unilateral disarmament.
posted by praemunire at 1:45 PM on March 1, 2021 [23 favorites]
This is true of virtually any institution employees might build to fight capital. The solution can't be unilateral disarmament.
posted by praemunire at 1:45 PM on March 1, 2021 [23 favorites]
The TJs I shop at (Evanston, IL) is easily the best store example of controlling occupancy and managing Covid risks that I have seen. Organized lines, strict rules which are outlined to everyone before they enter the store, employee always at the entrance, etc. Other grocery stores in my area have some mix of "masks necessary" and wiping down carts, but TJs is still very strict and organized—more so than any other shopping experience I have encountered since the beginning of the pandemic.
I'm not a huge TJs booster and I only go there maybe once every six weeks. But their Covid practices at that store are really commendable.
posted by SoberHighland at 1:49 PM on March 1, 2021 [13 favorites]
I'm not a huge TJs booster and I only go there maybe once every six weeks. But their Covid practices at that store are really commendable.
posted by SoberHighland at 1:49 PM on March 1, 2021 [13 favorites]
I worked at a TJ's some time back now. They are profoundly anti-union in the US. The whole org is predicated on pushing as many part timers as they can right up to the edge of being full time staff and getting bennies, and keeping full time staff working overtime but classifying them as 'management'. The whole edifice would fall apart with a union. No more closing tonight and opening tomorrow.
TJ's can't build a curbside pickup system because most of their inventory system isn't measured at the individual product unit level - only by a box of product. And it's not just TJ's that need updating. Outside of California TJ's relies on NSF for most warehousing. TJ's is very very low tech.
The Aldi brothers who own Aldi also own TJ's. Aldi's is a massive global org, more like walmart in scale. Aldi's in other countries have unions. TJ's is more like 7/11 in scale. TJ's liked to emphasize how little overlap there was between the products - but Aldi's only has 1200 SKU/products on the shelf. TJ's has under 4000. A regular grocery store would have 100 times that. So mostly it's just because they have less stuff on the shelves to compare.
In certain categories, like produce, products found at Aldi were often exactly the same but a smaller count for TJ's. In other categories, like frozen chicken or some dry goods it was from the same company just a different product line/package. But the buyers for each org are separate and the companies have separate HQ, so these are just examples of how few suppliers there are for certain goods.
The sad part is this Bonnema guy wanted to demonstrate some 'leadership' and 'kaizan' to get promoted into full time and live the TJ's dream. He was likely a true believer. Every store has a handful of them. And instead they fired him. I doubt he was pro-union when this all started.
posted by zenon at 1:49 PM on March 1, 2021 [42 favorites]
TJ's can't build a curbside pickup system because most of their inventory system isn't measured at the individual product unit level - only by a box of product. And it's not just TJ's that need updating. Outside of California TJ's relies on NSF for most warehousing. TJ's is very very low tech.
The Aldi brothers who own Aldi also own TJ's. Aldi's is a massive global org, more like walmart in scale. Aldi's in other countries have unions. TJ's is more like 7/11 in scale. TJ's liked to emphasize how little overlap there was between the products - but Aldi's only has 1200 SKU/products on the shelf. TJ's has under 4000. A regular grocery store would have 100 times that. So mostly it's just because they have less stuff on the shelves to compare.
In certain categories, like produce, products found at Aldi were often exactly the same but a smaller count for TJ's. In other categories, like frozen chicken or some dry goods it was from the same company just a different product line/package. But the buyers for each org are separate and the companies have separate HQ, so these are just examples of how few suppliers there are for certain goods.
The sad part is this Bonnema guy wanted to demonstrate some 'leadership' and 'kaizan' to get promoted into full time and live the TJ's dream. He was likely a true believer. Every store has a handful of them. And instead they fired him. I doubt he was pro-union when this all started.
posted by zenon at 1:49 PM on March 1, 2021 [42 favorites]
That's what unionization is about, accruing power for workers.
Yes, perhaps I should have specified "power qua power", or "for union leaders only." Your point about brain worms is a good one, but I believe a stronger case can be made for one's side when it's not falsely cast as unassailable. Perhaps my rhetoric could do with some honing, but I've been finding that voicing full-throated, blind support has been less effective at bringing people over to our side than allowing some nuance (e.g., acknowledging that STEM students likely won't see stipend increases). Of course, in my specific instance I'm dealing with other academics, and it's our nature to hedge :)
posted by hoyle at 1:53 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]
Yes, perhaps I should have specified "power qua power", or "for union leaders only." Your point about brain worms is a good one, but I believe a stronger case can be made for one's side when it's not falsely cast as unassailable. Perhaps my rhetoric could do with some honing, but I've been finding that voicing full-throated, blind support has been less effective at bringing people over to our side than allowing some nuance (e.g., acknowledging that STEM students likely won't see stipend increases). Of course, in my specific instance I'm dealing with other academics, and it's our nature to hedge :)
posted by hoyle at 1:53 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]
My (apparently not applicable) grocery workers union did not alleviate the problem of the store scheduling workers exactly 1 hr below full time to avoid giving benefits. While TJs may be against unions in general, I doubt it is for that reason exclusively.
posted by bbqturtle at 1:58 PM on March 1, 2021
Unions are good. Some union management is worthless and/or corrupt. If that describes the leadership of your union, run for any office in the union and start making the changes that you need.
posted by mikelieman at 2:45 PM on March 1, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 2:45 PM on March 1, 2021 [19 favorites]
One thing to consider is that while you might have had some issues with your union, you don't have the alternate-universe versions of the experience where your union was either better, or more importantly, nonexistent. Try to imagine how much worse your experience as a Meijer employee might have been without the union at least partially preventing management from doing whatever the hell they felt like.
That's not to discount your complaints, but to suggest that the solution to a bad union is a better one, not no union at all.
posted by axiom at 2:45 PM on March 1, 2021 [24 favorites]
That's not to discount your complaints, but to suggest that the solution to a bad union is a better one, not no union at all.
posted by axiom at 2:45 PM on March 1, 2021 [24 favorites]
TJ's was doing a good job at the Ballard store. A month ago or so, they stopped doing things. Sanitize your own cart. Come on in! The PCC co-op and the local chain, (Ballard Market), are still putting in some effort.
posted by Windopaene at 2:50 PM on March 1, 2021
posted by Windopaene at 2:50 PM on March 1, 2021
At our business we bought a UV-C disinfection lamp that installs in our HVAC ductwork. The whole thing cost $500 with installation. Not a ton of money. I don't know why everyone doesn't do that. I would like to see OSHA address aerosol transmission.
My current theory is that the CDC has been downplaying aerosol/airborne transmission, because then that would require a whole new set of employee protection requirements (like respirators) as well as make employers [more] liable for employee sickness. UV-C lamps and air filters may help, but since we can't make a conclusive determination about the 'safe' levels of virus in the air (if the level is literally zero, then everyone needs to bring their own air tank) we can't even start looking at any of these options as a solution. Then again, I don't think OSHA is capable of enforcing current regulations much less new ones so it's a moot point.
Everyone's just hoping that vaccines will fix everything so no one has to do anything.
posted by meowzilla at 3:03 PM on March 1, 2021 [16 favorites]
My current theory is that the CDC has been downplaying aerosol/airborne transmission, because then that would require a whole new set of employee protection requirements (like respirators) as well as make employers [more] liable for employee sickness. UV-C lamps and air filters may help, but since we can't make a conclusive determination about the 'safe' levels of virus in the air (if the level is literally zero, then everyone needs to bring their own air tank) we can't even start looking at any of these options as a solution. Then again, I don't think OSHA is capable of enforcing current regulations much less new ones so it's a moot point.
Everyone's just hoping that vaccines will fix everything so no one has to do anything.
posted by meowzilla at 3:03 PM on March 1, 2021 [16 favorites]
Three strikes for unmasked customers? One and done, yo. What's this three strikes nonsense?
posted by ocschwar at 3:06 PM on March 1, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 3:06 PM on March 1, 2021 [30 favorites]
The second incident at the Santa Cruz Trader Joe's was apparently part of a whole "national day of masklessness" organized online asking people to go into their local "nazi store" while violating the mask policy and get it all on video. Lots of signs about god and love but little consideration for their fellow human beings on display. One sign read "Maskless lives matter". Real Westboro Baptist vibes.
There is a group of "voluntaryists" that drive in from out of town and put on these events at local tourist attractions, stores, farmers markets, etc. where they harass passers-by and attempt to spread their ignorance. It gets them the attention they crave, no converts that I can tell, but has at least managed to make both the left and right side of local political groups agree that they are a menace.
posted by subocoyne at 4:11 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
There is a group of "voluntaryists" that drive in from out of town and put on these events at local tourist attractions, stores, farmers markets, etc. where they harass passers-by and attempt to spread their ignorance. It gets them the attention they crave, no converts that I can tell, but has at least managed to make both the left and right side of local political groups agree that they are a menace.
posted by subocoyne at 4:11 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
Anyone who doesn't like unions, I tell 'em this:
If labor isn't allowed to organize, ok, then capital can't organize. No more corporations.
posted by notsnot at 4:46 PM on March 1, 2021 [46 favorites]
If labor isn't allowed to organize, ok, then capital can't organize. No more corporations.
posted by notsnot at 4:46 PM on March 1, 2021 [46 favorites]
Huh. I'd been working for them for about a year and was abruptly dismissed on a suspiciously flimsy basis this past week too after speaking out about COVID-related safety issues.
posted by clockzero at 4:46 PM on March 1, 2021 [32 favorites]
posted by clockzero at 4:46 PM on March 1, 2021 [32 favorites]
Back in my teenage years (late 90s), there were two big grocery stores in Northampton: Stop and Shop, and Big Y. Stop and Shop was a union store, Big Y was not. I worked at Stop and Shop for less than I'd have made at Big Y, and a portion of it went to union dues.
It'd be easy to point to that anecdote and say that the union was just leeching, but that would be confusing cause and effect. S&S had a union because their international holding corporation fucking sucks. Big Y did not have a union because they're a local company who chooses to pay more and develop people's careers.
If you've ever had a union job and it still sucked, make sure to ask yourself what management would have you doing if the union didn't exist.
posted by explosion at 5:15 PM on March 1, 2021 [15 favorites]
It'd be easy to point to that anecdote and say that the union was just leeching, but that would be confusing cause and effect. S&S had a union because their international holding corporation fucking sucks. Big Y did not have a union because they're a local company who chooses to pay more and develop people's careers.
If you've ever had a union job and it still sucked, make sure to ask yourself what management would have you doing if the union didn't exist.
posted by explosion at 5:15 PM on March 1, 2021 [15 favorites]
I go to Trader Joe's soley for the Ghost Pepper potato chips. Apparently I am willing to risk my life for them. I do limit my trips by buying up to 10 bags at a time. Worth it to put on my mask/gaiter for them.
They changed the recipe. Husband says they are less spicy now. :(
posted by queseyo at 5:20 PM on March 1, 2021
They changed the recipe. Husband says they are less spicy now. :(
posted by queseyo at 5:20 PM on March 1, 2021
Knee-jerk defense of unions
I think this conversation says less about MeFi’s attitude towards unions than about MeFi knee-jerking in general. There are situations where the “don’t even come here talking about [subject] in those terms” response is appropriate - obviously the infamous Internet sea lion does exist - but there are also situations where I suspect it works against new/lurking users feeling comfortable to pipe up.
posted by atoxyl at 5:23 PM on March 1, 2021 [15 favorites]
I think this conversation says less about MeFi’s attitude towards unions than about MeFi knee-jerking in general. There are situations where the “don’t even come here talking about [subject] in those terms” response is appropriate - obviously the infamous Internet sea lion does exist - but there are also situations where I suspect it works against new/lurking users feeling comfortable to pipe up.
posted by atoxyl at 5:23 PM on March 1, 2021 [15 favorites]
w/r/t inventory trackers, is there something I've missed? When I was a uni student in the early 2000s, I did stocktaking at lots of supermarkets and stores, it was only the tiniest ones that didn't have computerised inventory tracking software that was linked to POS and to purchasing/restocking. If they wanted to know how many cans of beans, 400g, home brand, they had, they'd be able to know within a few seconds (with their sale value, and margin). Most used barcode readers, the older ones the checkout workers would punch in the stock code to a keypad, but these inventory systems are old. What kind of Flintstones stock system is this store running anyway?
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 5:44 PM on March 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 5:44 PM on March 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
TJ’s UWS in NYC is my TJ’s. I recall early in the pandemic last year there were a disproportionate amount of their workers the contracted the virus... My avoidance of the place prevented me from ever tasting their Ube Mochi Pancake and Waffle Mix.
posted by Stu-Pendous at 6:15 PM on March 1, 2021
posted by Stu-Pendous at 6:15 PM on March 1, 2021
I think this conversation says less about MeFi’s attitude towards unions than about MeFi knee-jerking in general.
Not only the knee-jerking, but also the presumption of bad faith that's become the default for so many discussions. This tendency when someone says "I don't believe X" for people to respond "Actually you do believe X, and here is a screed explaining why you're wrong and bad for believing it" is really widespread now and kind of chokes out other discussions. It's especially too bad in this case since the FPP doesn't even really have anything to do with unions, except in the very peripheral sense that any anti-union stance that Trader Joe's has is similarly reflective of the disregard for workers' rights that this story highlights.
Anyway, I do hope people who shop at Trader Joe's will consider contacting the corporate office to let them know that their customers are paying attention to this and do not approve of them firing employees for raising concerns about working conditions. You don't necessarily have to go full boycott to have an impact.
posted by biogeo at 6:25 PM on March 1, 2021 [25 favorites]
my face when the thread turns into a discussion about unions anyway
that's it, this is literally my face
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:13 PM on March 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
that's it, this is literally my face
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:13 PM on March 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
That there are at least two examples now of people getting canned from TJs with possible covid related factors is curious. Coincidence? Even more curious, considering around here, TJs is consistently the most actively managing anti covid measures among grocery stores.
If you've ever had a union job and it still sucked, make sure to ask yourself what management would have you doing if the union didn't exist.
Last union job I had was at a place (local Kroger owned chain) that managed to regularly lose employees to... Trader Joes. *shrugs* A Trader Joes right across the street.
Did the place suck? Well, it sucked about as much as one might imagine working at a grocery store would. For me, it allowed me to have a part time gig that I could pretty much choose a window of availability. That wasn't the union's doing. I managed to sweet talk the scheduler. Most part timers had no choice in the matter. Would it suck more without a union? Possibly, though if it did, they'd have an even harder time retaining anyone other than the lifers (who were leftover from before the last not-very-successful strike, and managed to grandfather in their meager privileges). It might have been easier to fire a couple of racist checkers that had been there forever. One retired. The other I thought might have been asked to resign, but it turns out he was just shuffled to other stores. I will give Kroger some credit. They're the only place I know of that will employ special needs individuals with meaningful work. I have no idea if has anything to do with being a union shop or not. I can't imagine TJs doing the same.
Yeah, the knee jerk union cheering and presumption of bad faith has always been absurd and has gotten worse. Why people get pissy and defensive when others point out ineffective (or worse) unions is beyond me. If you want good, strong unions, bad union behavior absolutely has to be called out without equivocation. I think people here are well aware of that, but want to reserve blinders for reasons I can't quite explain. Is the union cause really well served by shushing not-even dissent?
posted by 2N2222 at 7:19 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
If you've ever had a union job and it still sucked, make sure to ask yourself what management would have you doing if the union didn't exist.
Last union job I had was at a place (local Kroger owned chain) that managed to regularly lose employees to... Trader Joes. *shrugs* A Trader Joes right across the street.
Did the place suck? Well, it sucked about as much as one might imagine working at a grocery store would. For me, it allowed me to have a part time gig that I could pretty much choose a window of availability. That wasn't the union's doing. I managed to sweet talk the scheduler. Most part timers had no choice in the matter. Would it suck more without a union? Possibly, though if it did, they'd have an even harder time retaining anyone other than the lifers (who were leftover from before the last not-very-successful strike, and managed to grandfather in their meager privileges). It might have been easier to fire a couple of racist checkers that had been there forever. One retired. The other I thought might have been asked to resign, but it turns out he was just shuffled to other stores. I will give Kroger some credit. They're the only place I know of that will employ special needs individuals with meaningful work. I have no idea if has anything to do with being a union shop or not. I can't imagine TJs doing the same.
Yeah, the knee jerk union cheering and presumption of bad faith has always been absurd and has gotten worse. Why people get pissy and defensive when others point out ineffective (or worse) unions is beyond me. If you want good, strong unions, bad union behavior absolutely has to be called out without equivocation. I think people here are well aware of that, but want to reserve blinders for reasons I can't quite explain. Is the union cause really well served by shushing not-even dissent?
posted by 2N2222 at 7:19 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
They're the only place I know of that will employ special needs individuals with meaningful work. I have no idea if has anything to do with being a union shop or not. I can't imagine TJs doing the same.
The TJs in my community does. I didn’t know that Kroger did also.
posted by corey flood at 7:23 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
The TJs in my community does. I didn’t know that Kroger did also.
posted by corey flood at 7:23 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
> I was an employee at Meijer
So was I, over 20 years ago.
I knew cashiers who had worked there for years, and made something like $20/hour. In 1996.
It was a good job.
posted by kpmcguire at 7:31 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
So was I, over 20 years ago.
I knew cashiers who had worked there for years, and made something like $20/hour. In 1996.
It was a good job.
posted by kpmcguire at 7:31 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
Meanwhile yesterday, as all of the press was breathlessly reporting on the lies of Donald Trump at the CPAC convention, they were pretty much ignoring one of the most important speeches in a long time by the actual president of the United States the same day.
Biden was commenting on the current union election battle in Alabama against Amazon.
"Unions put power in the hands of the workers. They level the playing field. They give you a stronger voice for your health, your safety, higher wages, protections from racial discrimination and sexual harassment."
"I made clear I that my administration's policy would be to support unions organizing and the right to collectively bargain."
"So let me be really clear: it's not up to me to decide whether anyone should join a union. But let me be even more clear: it's not up to an employer to decide that either."
"There should be no intimidation, no coercion, no threats, no anti-union propaganda. No supervisor should confront employees about their union preferences. Every worker should have a free and fair choice to join a union. The law guarantees that choice. No employer can take away that right."
I can't remember any recent president speaking so forcefully on the right of workers to form unions and pledging government enforcement of labor union laws. As Biden once famously said "It's a Big Fucking Deal."
posted by JackFlash at 7:39 PM on March 1, 2021 [44 favorites]
Biden was commenting on the current union election battle in Alabama against Amazon.
"Unions put power in the hands of the workers. They level the playing field. They give you a stronger voice for your health, your safety, higher wages, protections from racial discrimination and sexual harassment."
"I made clear I that my administration's policy would be to support unions organizing and the right to collectively bargain."
"So let me be really clear: it's not up to me to decide whether anyone should join a union. But let me be even more clear: it's not up to an employer to decide that either."
"There should be no intimidation, no coercion, no threats, no anti-union propaganda. No supervisor should confront employees about their union preferences. Every worker should have a free and fair choice to join a union. The law guarantees that choice. No employer can take away that right."
I can't remember any recent president speaking so forcefully on the right of workers to form unions and pledging government enforcement of labor union laws. As Biden once famously said "It's a Big Fucking Deal."
posted by JackFlash at 7:39 PM on March 1, 2021 [44 favorites]
the press...were pretty much ignoring one of the most important speeches in a long time by the actual president of the United States the same day.
Biden Backs Amazon Warehouse Workers' Union Drive (NPR), Biden expresses solidarity with Alabama workers attempting to unionize an Amazon warehouse (NYT), Inside Joe Biden’s decision to dive into the Amazon union drive (Politico), Joe Biden takes swipe at Amazon over union fight (BBC), Why Joe Biden’s pro-union message is so significant (Vox), 'There should be no threats': Biden's message to union-busters (CNN), Biden’s Support for Unionizing Amazon Is a BFD (New Republic), Biden expresses support for Amazon union vote in Alabama: ‘Make your voice heard’ (CNBC), Biden throws support behind unions amid Alabama Amazon workers' landmark vote (ABC), Biden urges workers to 'make your voice heard' as Amazon employees vote on union (Reuters), Opinion: Biden’s surprise quotes on the Amazon union battle are a good sign (Washington Post), Biden Backs Amazon Workers’ Push to Unionize in Alabama (Wall Street Journal), Biden backs Amazon workers' push to unionize in Alabama: 'Make sure your voice is heard' (Fox Business) etc.
posted by eponym at 8:58 PM on March 1, 2021 [13 favorites]
Biden Backs Amazon Warehouse Workers' Union Drive (NPR), Biden expresses solidarity with Alabama workers attempting to unionize an Amazon warehouse (NYT), Inside Joe Biden’s decision to dive into the Amazon union drive (Politico), Joe Biden takes swipe at Amazon over union fight (BBC), Why Joe Biden’s pro-union message is so significant (Vox), 'There should be no threats': Biden's message to union-busters (CNN), Biden’s Support for Unionizing Amazon Is a BFD (New Republic), Biden expresses support for Amazon union vote in Alabama: ‘Make your voice heard’ (CNBC), Biden throws support behind unions amid Alabama Amazon workers' landmark vote (ABC), Biden urges workers to 'make your voice heard' as Amazon employees vote on union (Reuters), Opinion: Biden’s surprise quotes on the Amazon union battle are a good sign (Washington Post), Biden Backs Amazon Workers’ Push to Unionize in Alabama (Wall Street Journal), Biden backs Amazon workers' push to unionize in Alabama: 'Make sure your voice is heard' (Fox Business) etc.
posted by eponym at 8:58 PM on March 1, 2021 [13 favorites]
Well, just to pick out one -- CNN had 12 stories about Trump's speech at CPAC and one story about Biden's speech the same day about unions. I think CNN knows where the money is.
posted by JackFlash at 9:30 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 9:30 PM on March 1, 2021 [7 favorites]
Mod note: As a quick note, we've had a flag complaint that at least one person had hoped to find news and info about COVID policies and aerosol issues in this thread rather than another "Unions: Y/N" convo, which we've had many times before. Unions are not actually mentioned in the posted article at all (though one can see the thru-point here). Just a nudge that perhaps folks might want to consider getting unstuck from the more general question of unions qua unions.
posted by taz (staff) at 2:43 AM on March 2, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 2:43 AM on March 2, 2021 [14 favorites]
They're the only place I know of that will employ special needs individuals with meaningful work. I have no idea if has anything to do with being a union shop or not. I can't imagine TJs doing the same.
My local TJs (Lincoln Park, Chicago) is good on the covid-19 mitigations - by far the most comfortable shop of the 5 grocery stores within my walking range. It also has employed a woman with Down's Syndrome as a stocker/bagger for most of the time I have been shopping there though I am not sure I have seen her during this pandemic.
posted by srboisvert at 2:57 AM on March 2, 2021
My local TJs (Lincoln Park, Chicago) is good on the covid-19 mitigations - by far the most comfortable shop of the 5 grocery stores within my walking range. It also has employed a woman with Down's Syndrome as a stocker/bagger for most of the time I have been shopping there though I am not sure I have seen her during this pandemic.
posted by srboisvert at 2:57 AM on March 2, 2021
No one would be faster than the UFCW to tell you that their CBAs with conventional supermarkets (Kroger etc) leave a lot to be desired for low-seniority workers. The reality is that health coverage (most valued by higher seniority workers) has become unimaginably expensive and gross margins are tiny and supermarkets have been losing the fight for share to Wal-Mart, dollar stores, club stores and other non-union discounters - you can’t get blood from a stone.
Still, workers at the non-union gourmet and specialty markers (TJ, WF, Fresh Market etc.) totally free-ride on the unions at conventional supermarkets. Wages, benefits and conditions at those places would be much worse if management didn’t fear the UFCW organizers.
posted by MattD at 5:35 AM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
Still, workers at the non-union gourmet and specialty markers (TJ, WF, Fresh Market etc.) totally free-ride on the unions at conventional supermarkets. Wages, benefits and conditions at those places would be much worse if management didn’t fear the UFCW organizers.
posted by MattD at 5:35 AM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
From the article: "Store leadership terminated this Crew Member’s employment because of the disrespect he showed toward our customers.”
Do they claim separately somewhere that he disrespected customers to their faces, or does the disrespect consist of things in his letter?
posted by BibiRose at 6:44 AM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
Do they claim separately somewhere that he disrespected customers to their faces, or does the disrespect consist of things in his letter?
posted by BibiRose at 6:44 AM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
My local TJs has been very good on COVID issues. Other than the huge issue of lack of curbside/ability to order and pick-up. I am dismayed to see their crappy corporate behavior and sent an email. And yes - the notion that we're all just waiting for the vaccine and don't need to take additional new precautions like UV light is not great. This won't be the last pandemic unfortunately so thinking more broadly about air filtering is a good plan both for now and the future.
From what I've seen from friends over the years it seems like grocery unions are generally fairly weak in protecting workers. Part of the steady evisceration of unions for years. Doesn't mean that workers without unions are better off though.
posted by leslies at 6:51 AM on March 2, 2021
From what I've seen from friends over the years it seems like grocery unions are generally fairly weak in protecting workers. Part of the steady evisceration of unions for years. Doesn't mean that workers without unions are better off though.
posted by leslies at 6:51 AM on March 2, 2021
I worked at a TJ's some time back now. They are profoundly anti-union in the US. The whole org is predicated on pushing as many part timers as they can right up to the edge of being full time staff and getting bennies, and keeping full time staff working overtime but classifying them as 'management'.
These practices in food and retail need to be examined at the same time as minimum wage is raised; in fact I think without eliminating hours, wage and benefit manipulations, the raise in minimum wage will not be that effective. They will find other ways to replace that money which will involve various kinds of wage theft. There is so much wage theft in these kinds of jobs! The pandemic has only made it worse; if you have been able to keep a retail job and you are part-time, you are being pressured to work full-time hours with no benefits. You may also be "promoted" to key holder or some kind of points person without being full time or given more than a nominal raise. (More likely, zero raise and some kind of promise of eventual promotion to full time.) All of these things will be passed off as temporary, but people have been falling for these "temporary" situations since at least 2008 in the US.
posted by BibiRose at 7:16 AM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
These practices in food and retail need to be examined at the same time as minimum wage is raised; in fact I think without eliminating hours, wage and benefit manipulations, the raise in minimum wage will not be that effective. They will find other ways to replace that money which will involve various kinds of wage theft. There is so much wage theft in these kinds of jobs! The pandemic has only made it worse; if you have been able to keep a retail job and you are part-time, you are being pressured to work full-time hours with no benefits. You may also be "promoted" to key holder or some kind of points person without being full time or given more than a nominal raise. (More likely, zero raise and some kind of promise of eventual promotion to full time.) All of these things will be passed off as temporary, but people have been falling for these "temporary" situations since at least 2008 in the US.
posted by BibiRose at 7:16 AM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
I have sort of assumed that Trader Joe's reluctance to do curbside pickup is probably at least partly a matter of practicality, in that they already have famously overcrowded parking lots. Not trying to give a corporation undeserving slack while they are midfuckery on other fronts, but for real: the parking lots are so jammed, it's hard to imagine pickup working.
(Or maybe it would alleviate it some? No idea. Not an engineer or a planner. I do know that at our Kroger subsidiary, Mariano's they had to devote ten or so front of store slots for pickup. TJ's lot minus ten slots would be bad, seems like.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:06 AM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
(Or maybe it would alleviate it some? No idea. Not an engineer or a planner. I do know that at our Kroger subsidiary, Mariano's they had to devote ten or so front of store slots for pickup. TJ's lot minus ten slots would be bad, seems like.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:06 AM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Unions, like any other human institution, are not perfect and never will be but anyone who thinks labour currently has the upper hand over capital and needs to be reigned in or that the abuses and failings of unions are in any way comparable in scale to those perpetuated by the ownership class is not someone I can see eye to eye with.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:09 AM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:09 AM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yeah, the knee jerk union cheering and presumption of bad faith has always been absurd and has gotten worse. Why people get pissy and defensive when others point out ineffective (or worse) unions is beyond me.
The knee-jerking probably comes from IRL - even in my working-class group of friends, I'm the only strong union proponent. So when I see a whatabout-ism on MeFi that I've heard IRL a bunch of times, my response may be a little bit of a hair-trigger.
posted by notsnot at 11:43 AM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
The knee-jerking probably comes from IRL - even in my working-class group of friends, I'm the only strong union proponent. So when I see a whatabout-ism on MeFi that I've heard IRL a bunch of times, my response may be a little bit of a hair-trigger.
posted by notsnot at 11:43 AM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
What kind of Flintstones stock system is this store running anyway?Next time you are in TJ's look around and you will likely see someone out on the floor with a tablet in their hand re-ordering 'their section'. They will look at the shelf, try to remember how much stock is in the tiny storeroom, and guess how much to order. Then, some rando at NSF may or may not send it out to you, as the stock listed as in the warehouse is only a slightly better than a guesstimate. Everyday an NSF truck will arrive with pallets of stuff and a printout of the orders. We didn't even use scanners to check the orders in, I would not be surprised to learn they still don't. That was the inventory system. We threw out lots of food due to over ordering.
Aspiring part timers get a section of the store, and the more perishable the good (or booze) the larger the responsibility. If you are asking yourself how can someone who isn't there full time can order all the the produce, well a full timer will pick up the two days the part time is out. What could go wrong?
This is just grocery JIT (just in time) and the reason staff are generally so ambivalent about if a specific item is in stock. The beleaguered sign maker, an actual job at TJ's, has a steady gig because all the missing items will need at "Temporarily Out of Stock" (aka TOS) label. How long will it be TOS? Who really knows, maybe it wasn't ordered, maybe the warehouse ate it, maybe it was covered in the staff meeting/weekly product book. It's all very ¯\(°_o)/¯ .
It might seem like a big cost but really it just means that there is always a level of chaos around stock, for a relatively robust system that can easily switch all the way back to fax. It's not like they are paying the person placing the orders big bucks, or even the sign maker. And one of the big big benefits of the sign system is that TJ's is able to match prices to the local comparables. Our store was in a competitive market and it was my job to go out and get spot prices on about 20 items, generally every couple of weeks. Staying on this was how our 'captain'* made his big bonus.
*store manager. Cult 101 is renaming something common with something degrading.
posted by zenon at 1:36 PM on March 2, 2021 [11 favorites]
I actually hit this TJs early in the pandemic, with the rationale that if I'm stuck in my apartment I might as well stock up on convenience foods. Like everyone else reports, they were controlling their capacity very strictly and wiping everything down - in fact on this particular day the line went 180 degrees around the block and it took more than an hour before I entered the store. (After that I realized that this was a stupid place to shop.)
That's not what this guy is talking about in the letter, though - he mostly wants them to improve the air filtration system. Realistically, even limiting the store to 50% capacity means that covid-positive people will be coming in every day.
This letter seemed very familiar because I am also the kind of person who dreams up solutions to problems and really wishes people would listen. I can certainly see management just ignoring him - that's usually how life works, after all. But retaliating and firing him seems insanely petty. It definitely damages the brand for me, because I am personally offended.
posted by anhedonic at 11:25 PM on March 2, 2021 [6 favorites]
That's not what this guy is talking about in the letter, though - he mostly wants them to improve the air filtration system. Realistically, even limiting the store to 50% capacity means that covid-positive people will be coming in every day.
This letter seemed very familiar because I am also the kind of person who dreams up solutions to problems and really wishes people would listen. I can certainly see management just ignoring him - that's usually how life works, after all. But retaliating and firing him seems insanely petty. It definitely damages the brand for me, because I am personally offended.
posted by anhedonic at 11:25 PM on March 2, 2021 [6 favorites]
I was kind of sick of the "how is union gud?" derail and went looking for actual updated guidance on store safety from non-USIan sources. Almost all the governmental guidance was ~ April 2020 and hasn't been updated since with any new information about how the virus is spread or availability of PPE. I did not look very hard but the safety ideas from Bonnema's email are better thought out than much of the EU guidance I looked through. I can't read non-English though so maybe there is good guidance from Korea, Japan, or China?
posted by benzenedream at 10:02 AM on March 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 10:02 AM on March 3, 2021 [3 favorites]
Trader Joe’s Rehires Worker Who Went Viral After Being Fired for Raising COVID-19 Concerns
posted by eponym at 8:11 AM on March 4, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by eponym at 8:11 AM on March 4, 2021 [10 favorites]
Highlight of what eponym posted is the guys lawyer is sticking to his guns: "we will continue to take all necessary legal action to repair his reputation".
posted by zenon at 8:28 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by zenon at 8:28 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
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posted by praemunire at 12:02 PM on March 1, 2021 [22 favorites]