More Net, less Flix
March 23, 2021 12:15 PM Subscribe
Just a decade ago, the physical media library possessed by Netflix was well beyond 100,000 titles strong, offering a staggering degree of diversity that essentially made it the equivalent of the best-stocked video store in the world. At its peak, in fact, the number of DVD titles possessed by Netflix would have dwarfed the entire streaming libraries of all the major streamers today … combined.A lost treasure we will never see again. By Jim Vorel.
I miss those halcyon days when you'd look forward to some obscure film arriving in your mailbox from Netflix. But I also miss the early days of their streaming service when their algorithm would show many interesting and quirky films that I really enjoyed. Now it's mostly comic book movies and other crap in which I have little interest.
I was also bummed out when Hulu lost the Criterion Collection.
posted by drstrangelove at 12:29 PM on March 23, 2021 [26 favorites]
I was also bummed out when Hulu lost the Criterion Collection.
posted by drstrangelove at 12:29 PM on March 23, 2021 [26 favorites]
I was also bummed out when Hulu lost the Criterion Collection.
Tbf, there’s now the criterion channel, though its existence is of course another sign of the ongoing fragmenting of streaming into more niche services.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:35 PM on March 23, 2021 [20 favorites]
Tbf, there’s now the criterion channel, though its existence is of course another sign of the ongoing fragmenting of streaming into more niche services.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:35 PM on March 23, 2021 [20 favorites]
People really hate walking over to their DVD Player, opening it up, and clicking through menus.
The number of times I’ve bought a digital copy of a film that I own on DVD to avoid getting up and putting it in the DVD player is higher than I’d like to admit.
posted by paulcole at 12:47 PM on March 23, 2021 [15 favorites]
The number of times I’ve bought a digital copy of a film that I own on DVD to avoid getting up and putting it in the DVD player is higher than I’d like to admit.
posted by paulcole at 12:47 PM on March 23, 2021 [15 favorites]
A lost treasure we will never see again.
I don't know, there's plenty of invite-only torrent sites which fill this gap. In fact, I'd wager depending on the site, they may actually have more content than Netflix did at the time.
A quote from Trent Reznor on OiNK's Pink Palace, before it was shut down, and a comparison to iTunes:
"I'll admit I had an account there and frequented it quite often. At the end of the day, what made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store. Pretty much anything you could ever imagine, it was there, and it was there in the format you wanted. If OiNK cost anything, I would certainly have paid, but there isn't the equivalent of that in the retail space right now. iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc. Amazon has potential, but none of them get around the issue of pre-release leaks. And that's what's such a difficult puzzle at the moment. If your favorite band in the world has a leaked record out, do you listen to it or do you not listen to it? People on those boards, they're grateful for the person that uploaded it — they're the hero. They're not stealing it because they're going to make money off of it; they're stealing it because they love the band. I'm not saying that I think OiNK is morally correct, but I do know that it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
I know it is an old quote from Reznor, but it still applies. While people are lamenting this, I'm thinking "I have access to a bigger collection of bad B-movies alone at Cinemageddon." (EDIT: I just checked, Cinemageddon has 180,000+ films, although that doesn't count duplicates that got uploaded in higher quality. That's JUST B-movies. The idea that these kind of collections are "lost" only exists in the capitalist hellscape that says piracy is evil.)
Netflix and other streaming services "feel" like the equivalent of Sam Goody because all they're worried about is content that people will watch and keep people watching. They literally do not want content that is obscure, that only a handful of people want to watch, keeping those kind of titles isn't profitable for them. In point of fact, storing those titles alone in their servers might cost so much in electricity and storage backup that it's literally not cost effective to have them in their library. All services that function on profit all eventually end up like this, while services that are created for people's sheer love of a thing will always be higher quality. (Only to be eventually shut down in favor of the people who only want to profit. God damn it, capitalism.)
posted by deadaluspark at 12:49 PM on March 23, 2021 [37 favorites]
I don't know, there's plenty of invite-only torrent sites which fill this gap. In fact, I'd wager depending on the site, they may actually have more content than Netflix did at the time.
A quote from Trent Reznor on OiNK's Pink Palace, before it was shut down, and a comparison to iTunes:
"I'll admit I had an account there and frequented it quite often. At the end of the day, what made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store. Pretty much anything you could ever imagine, it was there, and it was there in the format you wanted. If OiNK cost anything, I would certainly have paid, but there isn't the equivalent of that in the retail space right now. iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc. Amazon has potential, but none of them get around the issue of pre-release leaks. And that's what's such a difficult puzzle at the moment. If your favorite band in the world has a leaked record out, do you listen to it or do you not listen to it? People on those boards, they're grateful for the person that uploaded it — they're the hero. They're not stealing it because they're going to make money off of it; they're stealing it because they love the band. I'm not saying that I think OiNK is morally correct, but I do know that it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
I know it is an old quote from Reznor, but it still applies. While people are lamenting this, I'm thinking "I have access to a bigger collection of bad B-movies alone at Cinemageddon." (EDIT: I just checked, Cinemageddon has 180,000+ films, although that doesn't count duplicates that got uploaded in higher quality. That's JUST B-movies. The idea that these kind of collections are "lost" only exists in the capitalist hellscape that says piracy is evil.)
Netflix and other streaming services "feel" like the equivalent of Sam Goody because all they're worried about is content that people will watch and keep people watching. They literally do not want content that is obscure, that only a handful of people want to watch, keeping those kind of titles isn't profitable for them. In point of fact, storing those titles alone in their servers might cost so much in electricity and storage backup that it's literally not cost effective to have them in their library. All services that function on profit all eventually end up like this, while services that are created for people's sheer love of a thing will always be higher quality. (Only to be eventually shut down in favor of the people who only want to profit. God damn it, capitalism.)
posted by deadaluspark at 12:49 PM on March 23, 2021 [37 favorites]
Pity the unprofitably broad collection couldn’t go to a library, then.
(I don’t get anything but a title and picture when I click through. Am I missing prose or video?)
posted by clew at 12:52 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
(I don’t get anything but a title and picture when I click through. Am I missing prose or video?)
posted by clew at 12:52 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
Please go to your local library. You're going to find a lot of DVDs and Blu-rays. Many of them are out of print.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:54 PM on March 23, 2021 [31 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:54 PM on March 23, 2021 [31 favorites]
More to the point, I wish libraries were just allowed to digitize stuff and make their own streaming servers...
The whole thing is capitalism hogwash that's hellbent on destroying art that isn't "profitable."
Just start allowing libraries to pull old movies from torrent sites or something, this is all just fucking absurd.
Losing massive amounts of human art and history, all because there's not enough money to be made.
Once again, god damn it, capitalism.
posted by deadaluspark at 12:58 PM on March 23, 2021 [22 favorites]
The whole thing is capitalism hogwash that's hellbent on destroying art that isn't "profitable."
Just start allowing libraries to pull old movies from torrent sites or something, this is all just fucking absurd.
Losing massive amounts of human art and history, all because there's not enough money to be made.
Once again, god damn it, capitalism.
posted by deadaluspark at 12:58 PM on March 23, 2021 [22 favorites]
More to the point, I wish libraries were just allowed to digitize stuff and make their own streaming servers...
This is what Kanopy is supposed to accomplish.
https://www.kanopy.com/
posted by mr_roboto at 1:01 PM on March 23, 2021 [16 favorites]
This is what Kanopy is supposed to accomplish.
https://www.kanopy.com/
posted by mr_roboto at 1:01 PM on March 23, 2021 [16 favorites]
People really hate walking over to their DVD Player, opening it up, and clicking through menus.
And yet they seem to be just fine with the seeming infinite scrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscroll of trying to find something that looks even mildly interesting on Netflix/Prime/D+/etc. I swear I waste more time searching than I ever do watching.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:05 PM on March 23, 2021 [17 favorites]
And yet they seem to be just fine with the seeming infinite scrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscroll of trying to find something that looks even mildly interesting on Netflix/Prime/D+/etc. I swear I waste more time searching than I ever do watching.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:05 PM on March 23, 2021 [17 favorites]
I had Zip in Canada rather than Netflix, but there was something to say for the user experience of making a list of movies you'd like to see, and then one of them randomly shows up in your mailbox, rather than choosing which specific movie you want to watch at this moment.
I had a Zip membership up until it shut down, and the last year or so did have the same sign as the article mentions, where titles I had queued were now "requested" because it was no longer in stock.
Through my library I have access to five titles a month on Kanopy and Hoopla. If I want like, 1970s Giallo, Kanopy is a much better bet than Netflix.
posted by RobotHero at 1:05 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I had a Zip membership up until it shut down, and the last year or so did have the same sign as the article mentions, where titles I had queued were now "requested" because it was no longer in stock.
Through my library I have access to five titles a month on Kanopy and Hoopla. If I want like, 1970s Giallo, Kanopy is a much better bet than Netflix.
posted by RobotHero at 1:05 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I feel like this is overstated.
You can go right now to Vudu or Google Play or iTunes and find a huge library of films that can be streamed for about $3.99. Blaxploitation, French New Wave, Italian neorealism, queer American indie films, almost all movies released in theaters by an American studio, etc. etc.
There are some movies that have slipped through the cracks here (I believe this is mostly due to music licensing) -- which is a problem that should be addressed -- but the library is huge.
The complaint therefore is not that these movies can't be seen. It's that they can't be seen... for no extra charge after already having paid for a subscription service.
posted by lewedswiver at 1:05 PM on March 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
You can go right now to Vudu or Google Play or iTunes and find a huge library of films that can be streamed for about $3.99. Blaxploitation, French New Wave, Italian neorealism, queer American indie films, almost all movies released in theaters by an American studio, etc. etc.
There are some movies that have slipped through the cracks here (I believe this is mostly due to music licensing) -- which is a problem that should be addressed -- but the library is huge.
The complaint therefore is not that these movies can't be seen. It's that they can't be seen... for no extra charge after already having paid for a subscription service.
posted by lewedswiver at 1:05 PM on March 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
Streaming has been with us long enough now that I can say, unequivocally, it has not enhanced my viewing pleasure. Definitely a quantity vs. quality experience.
There was something special about going the few blocks to a rental place, and discovering titles, that I do not get from any streaming service.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:08 PM on March 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
There was something special about going the few blocks to a rental place, and discovering titles, that I do not get from any streaming service.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:08 PM on March 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
When I first moved to San Francisco there were at least two stores where you could find VHS and DVD copies of really obscure, weird, subtitled, and unheard of videos. It was wonderful to just wander around and DISCOVERING marvels and also disasters of films. Browsing is key. Serendipity rules. Now it seems people are no longer interested in anything except that served up by algorithms coded by people promoting what’s popular and more than likely profitable. Both those stores disappeared over time. The once DVD capital Amoeba Records seems to have less and less. The internet is unbrowsable as far as I am concerned. I sometimes learn of interesting things here on the blue and other places on the web but it’s just not the same as walking into a room full stuff I’ve never heard of but can really appreciate. From some comments I’ve seen, I guess the only hope for us lovers of the obscure and unpopular is to resort to internet banditry.
posted by njohnson23 at 1:09 PM on March 23, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 1:09 PM on March 23, 2021 [11 favorites]
just fine with the seeming infinite scrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscrollscroll
Very like the people who clicked repeatedly through all the cable channels instead of watching anything?
posted by clew at 1:12 PM on March 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
Very like the people who clicked repeatedly through all the cable channels instead of watching anything?
posted by clew at 1:12 PM on March 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
Thorzdad: " I swear I waste more time searching than I ever do watching."
This is me. I also end up watching something I've already seen 99 times out of 100. Which is irritating because the cornucopia of content looks so attractive, like an overstuffed big box candy store, though in the end I just know I'm going to be disappointed and am only really happy with gummi bears.
posted by chavenet at 1:13 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is me. I also end up watching something I've already seen 99 times out of 100. Which is irritating because the cornucopia of content looks so attractive, like an overstuffed big box candy store, though in the end I just know I'm going to be disappointed and am only really happy with gummi bears.
posted by chavenet at 1:13 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
capitalism will always, has always, destroyed the pursuit of knowledge and culture. same old wine, new widescreen format.
posted by eustatic at 1:14 PM on March 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 1:14 PM on March 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
Is there any reason to believe that netflix's DVD library has shrunk? I scanned the article and did not see it. There is just an assurance that it has. I am an off and on again subscriber to netflix's DVD library for two reasons - quicker access to blockbusters and a deeper back catalog. I also find it handy for avoiding decision fatigue. You watch what comes so you can turn around your movies quicker and get better bang for your buck.
I think the deeper threat to this model is DeJoy's degradation of postal service. Last time I was subscribed I cancelled because instead of a 5 day disc turnaround it had becoming at least 8 days and a few disc were lost either on their to me or on their way from me. There was also an issue with my postal carrier breaking the seal and checking what movies I had rented. Fortunately, my tastes were sufficiently obscure that I think only one or two were delayed for that reason.
Please go to your local library. You're going to find a lot of DVDs and Blu-rays. Many of them are out of print.
Just be sure and check they are not scratched when you sign them out because I have had so many library discs crap out on me mid movie it makes renting library movies a bit tense.
posted by srboisvert at 1:18 PM on March 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
I think the deeper threat to this model is DeJoy's degradation of postal service. Last time I was subscribed I cancelled because instead of a 5 day disc turnaround it had becoming at least 8 days and a few disc were lost either on their to me or on their way from me. There was also an issue with my postal carrier breaking the seal and checking what movies I had rented. Fortunately, my tastes were sufficiently obscure that I think only one or two were delayed for that reason.
Please go to your local library. You're going to find a lot of DVDs and Blu-rays. Many of them are out of print.
Just be sure and check they are not scratched when you sign them out because I have had so many library discs crap out on me mid movie it makes renting library movies a bit tense.
posted by srboisvert at 1:18 PM on March 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
Just be sure and check they are not scratched when you sign them out because I have had so many library discs crap out on me mid movie it makes renting library movies a bit tense.
Or you could do the library a solid and fix it with toothpaste. I fixed my Fallout 3 disc way back in the day like that.
posted by deadaluspark at 1:20 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Or you could do the library a solid and fix it with toothpaste. I fixed my Fallout 3 disc way back in the day like that.
posted by deadaluspark at 1:20 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
The internet is unbrowsable as far as I am concerned.
Increasingly, it's like having to go to 5-6 different video stores, all with different membership cards, all close to one another, but just far enough away + different enough in how they're organized that it's draining to have to search through all of them to find what you're looking for.
And that are all adding and - maybe more importantly - jettisoning movies on a weekly basis.
Back around mid-summer 2020, I kind of threw up my hands - when I want to watch a movie now, I generally just go to TCM and see what they've got available that day, and pick one. When it comes to watching things, my brain seems happier with a lot less choice.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:20 PM on March 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
Increasingly, it's like having to go to 5-6 different video stores, all with different membership cards, all close to one another, but just far enough away + different enough in how they're organized that it's draining to have to search through all of them to find what you're looking for.
And that are all adding and - maybe more importantly - jettisoning movies on a weekly basis.
Back around mid-summer 2020, I kind of threw up my hands - when I want to watch a movie now, I generally just go to TCM and see what they've got available that day, and pick one. When it comes to watching things, my brain seems happier with a lot less choice.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:20 PM on March 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
I held out for a long time before signing up with Netflix (when it was only/mostly a DVD service), because my local video place (I Luv Video) had such an extensive collection—I figured Netflix couldn't match it. Eventually I gave in after multiple attempts at renting videos resulted in scratched-up discs or the wrong discs entirely. I have to imagine something like that has happened with much of the Netflix physical media—it's gotten so beat up that it's no longer usable.
I definitely get the point about endless scrolling. I know that my wife and I have a tendency to watch TV series more than movies now—we can get 20 or 50 hours of viewing time for the investment in choosing a title, rather than 90 minutes. And I'm guessing that "stickiness" figures in to the business decisions that all the streaming platforms make.
posted by adamrice at 1:21 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I definitely get the point about endless scrolling. I know that my wife and I have a tendency to watch TV series more than movies now—we can get 20 or 50 hours of viewing time for the investment in choosing a title, rather than 90 minutes. And I'm guessing that "stickiness" figures in to the business decisions that all the streaming platforms make.
posted by adamrice at 1:21 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
Is there any reason to believe that netflix's DVD library has shrunk?
It was noticably shrinking when I canceled my by-mail plan in 2016. I doubt they've been beefing it up since then.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:23 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
It was noticably shrinking when I canceled my by-mail plan in 2016. I doubt they've been beefing it up since then.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:23 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
Scratched discs were infuriating and not uncommon. Amazingly, streaming is like 99.9% reliable, despite relying on miles of cables and third-party electronics.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:26 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:26 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
The DVD service is how I find about 80% of the films for my blog. Every so often one of the titles I have on the queue (which I have maxed out and have to keep updating as I work my way through) drops off and into the "Saved" section - and it's not all the obscure stuff that falls into "Saved", either. The most recent thing that dropped into "Saved" was a 1970s Paul Newman film. (The obscure stuff just never shows up on Netflix at all, either in DVD or in streaming.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:29 PM on March 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:29 PM on March 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
Seattle is very fortunate to have Scarecrow Video. A great number of indie and classic gems are only available on physical media. What remains are the rare exceptions only available from one or another fractured niche service that is invariably ridiculously expensive to subscribe to.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:34 PM on March 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:34 PM on March 23, 2021 [6 favorites]
it seems people are no longer interested in anything except that served up by algorithms coded by people promoting what’s popular and more than likely profitable
It's important to recognise that modern streaming services aren't drawing their growing audiences from people who used rental video libraries as a major component of their media intake. The audiences are largely coming from those who previously mainly watched live TV (and those who would have in a different era). It should come as no surprise that, with largely the same audience as TV once had, streaming services exhibit broadly similar characteristics. "People" in general are (I'd be happy to bet) no less interested in the things you mention, but streaming services, just like like broadcast TV, aren't aimed at people: they're aimed at wallets, which means that more marginal materials will be, at best, a loss-leader receiving just as much investment as extra subscriptions support, and not a penny more. Capitalists gonna capitalise.
The reason Netflix was able to make video rental redundant was that the latter was, for most of its short history, a fairly marginal commercial concern. Good video rental shops were always the province of the kind of nerds, enthusiasts and obsessives who now share content unlawfully online, and many of them turned about the same amount of profit. There just isn't much money in marginalia. If there were, it wouldn't be marginal.
The problem isn't people. The problem is capitalism. The answer, in the short term, for those who want to keep marginalia around and relevant, is piracy combined with finding ways to directly support marginal and marginalised artists.
In the longer term the answer is revolution, same as always.
posted by howfar at 1:45 PM on March 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
It's important to recognise that modern streaming services aren't drawing their growing audiences from people who used rental video libraries as a major component of their media intake. The audiences are largely coming from those who previously mainly watched live TV (and those who would have in a different era). It should come as no surprise that, with largely the same audience as TV once had, streaming services exhibit broadly similar characteristics. "People" in general are (I'd be happy to bet) no less interested in the things you mention, but streaming services, just like like broadcast TV, aren't aimed at people: they're aimed at wallets, which means that more marginal materials will be, at best, a loss-leader receiving just as much investment as extra subscriptions support, and not a penny more. Capitalists gonna capitalise.
The reason Netflix was able to make video rental redundant was that the latter was, for most of its short history, a fairly marginal commercial concern. Good video rental shops were always the province of the kind of nerds, enthusiasts and obsessives who now share content unlawfully online, and many of them turned about the same amount of profit. There just isn't much money in marginalia. If there were, it wouldn't be marginal.
The problem isn't people. The problem is capitalism. The answer, in the short term, for those who want to keep marginalia around and relevant, is piracy combined with finding ways to directly support marginal and marginalised artists.
In the longer term the answer is revolution, same as always.
posted by howfar at 1:45 PM on March 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
capitalism will always, has always, destroyed the pursuit of knowledge and culture. same old wine, new widescreen format.
I don’t… what? It isn’t Netflix’s job to be a storehouse of knowledge. Netflix isn’t physically destroying these old movies that have negligible demand and were presumably fairly hard to find before unless you had access to a niche weird video store. (I’d love to see some examples of the movies Netflix has been dropping, btw. I wanna see the damage!) Like, I don’t like seeing this kind of culling happening, but I find it difficult to say that Netflix is actively “destroying” art and culture here, since presumably nothing is disappearing from actual print - it’s just going back to being extremely hard to rent, which (again, lacking examples) may well have been the case when blockbuster and hollywood video were dominating things. (If you had a local weirdo DVD store and Netflix destroyed it, your loss is very real, but your position was kind of blessed.)
posted by Going To Maine at 1:47 PM on March 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
I don’t… what? It isn’t Netflix’s job to be a storehouse of knowledge. Netflix isn’t physically destroying these old movies that have negligible demand and were presumably fairly hard to find before unless you had access to a niche weird video store. (I’d love to see some examples of the movies Netflix has been dropping, btw. I wanna see the damage!) Like, I don’t like seeing this kind of culling happening, but I find it difficult to say that Netflix is actively “destroying” art and culture here, since presumably nothing is disappearing from actual print - it’s just going back to being extremely hard to rent, which (again, lacking examples) may well have been the case when blockbuster and hollywood video were dominating things. (If you had a local weirdo DVD store and Netflix destroyed it, your loss is very real, but your position was kind of blessed.)
posted by Going To Maine at 1:47 PM on March 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Please go to your local library. You're going to find a lot of DVDs and Blu-rays. Many of them are out of print.
I am no film buff by any means whatsoever, but I literally just bought a DVD player in 2021 with Ask Metafilter's help, strictly in order to take advantage of my local libraries' DVD collection.
(I'm in New York City, so admittedly the three city library systems combined have a huge collection, something I'm aware is certainly not the fact for all library systems.)
I will say one minorly disagreeable surprise I have had is that the subtitling options for a lot of the non-English-language DVDs I have borrowed are not ideal. I've gotten used to Netflix where, at least in my experience, any show/movie that is not in English has at least subtitles in English and the original spoken language. A lot of the Spanish and French DVDs I have borrowed either have no subtitles at all, or only English subtitles.
posted by andrewesque at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
I am no film buff by any means whatsoever, but I literally just bought a DVD player in 2021 with Ask Metafilter's help, strictly in order to take advantage of my local libraries' DVD collection.
(I'm in New York City, so admittedly the three city library systems combined have a huge collection, something I'm aware is certainly not the fact for all library systems.)
I will say one minorly disagreeable surprise I have had is that the subtitling options for a lot of the non-English-language DVDs I have borrowed are not ideal. I've gotten used to Netflix where, at least in my experience, any show/movie that is not in English has at least subtitles in English and the original spoken language. A lot of the Spanish and French DVDs I have borrowed either have no subtitles at all, or only English subtitles.
posted by andrewesque at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Capitalism (and intellectual property law, one of capitalism's many bastard children) has erased far more of our cultural and artistic heritage than "cancel culture" ever will.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:59 PM on March 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:59 PM on March 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
"The reason Netflix was able to make video rental redundant was that the latter was, for most of its short history, a fairly marginal commercial concern. Good video rental shops were always the province of the kind of nerds, enthusiasts and obsessives who now share content unlawfully online, and many of them turned about the same amount of profit."
I just don't really think this is true. Speaking as someone who works in home media sales (DVDs, streaming, all that stuff), my colleagues who have been in the business for a long time remember the 80's and 90's as being a pretty amazing time. Everyone was making money. "Good video rental shops" moved into becoming a more niche thing as digital began to creep in, but during the heyday of video everyone used them. Even now, if Netflix orders DVDs from my employer (and this doesn't happen very often these days!) it is a very nice sale for us, the kind of figure that will make me think "damn, to have been doing this job in 1989!" To say that most of Netflix customer's previously only watched TV and never rented movies is...well, do you really believe that? I'm not THAT old and everyone I knew grew up renting movies all the time. My local Blockbuster in Brooklyn only closed down about ten years ago.
DVDs are much more lucrative to sell than their digital counterparts. They are cheap to make with a huge markup. Unless you are one of the major studios, you just can't make the same kind of profit off a $2 rental on Apple as you would on a DVD sale. Streaming hurts smaller distributors because we just can't be as competitive on that scale.
Do check out movies from your local library! After Amazon, public libraries are our biggest customer for home video sales.
posted by cakelite at 2:09 PM on March 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
I just don't really think this is true. Speaking as someone who works in home media sales (DVDs, streaming, all that stuff), my colleagues who have been in the business for a long time remember the 80's and 90's as being a pretty amazing time. Everyone was making money. "Good video rental shops" moved into becoming a more niche thing as digital began to creep in, but during the heyday of video everyone used them. Even now, if Netflix orders DVDs from my employer (and this doesn't happen very often these days!) it is a very nice sale for us, the kind of figure that will make me think "damn, to have been doing this job in 1989!" To say that most of Netflix customer's previously only watched TV and never rented movies is...well, do you really believe that? I'm not THAT old and everyone I knew grew up renting movies all the time. My local Blockbuster in Brooklyn only closed down about ten years ago.
DVDs are much more lucrative to sell than their digital counterparts. They are cheap to make with a huge markup. Unless you are one of the major studios, you just can't make the same kind of profit off a $2 rental on Apple as you would on a DVD sale. Streaming hurts smaller distributors because we just can't be as competitive on that scale.
Do check out movies from your local library! After Amazon, public libraries are our biggest customer for home video sales.
posted by cakelite at 2:09 PM on March 23, 2021 [7 favorites]
Browsing is key. Serendipity rules.
I used to spend hours in a video store doing this. I now spend hours doing this with the streaming services I have, much to the annoyance of the SO. "Pick something already," she'd say as I watch yet another trailer and look for reviews on my phone.
It has made the algorithm that suggests things to me sometimes interesting, but I usually blitz through the "For You" and "Because You Watched" sections and just hit up generic categories, then browse, browse, browse.
Did streaming make it so people who don't want to browse don't have to, and just be fed their favorites? Sure. It worked the same way at Blockbuster when you walked in and faced the wall of New Releases and Popular Titles, only now it's personalized, which is a good thing. Because you can still browse.
Browsing Kanopy is actually quite fun as their library is immediately different on first glance (and a significant amount of Criterion movies are on there, too!). But browsing Prime, Hulu, Netflix, etc.? You'd be surprised at the amount of odd things that are on these services.
posted by linux at 2:13 PM on March 23, 2021
I used to spend hours in a video store doing this. I now spend hours doing this with the streaming services I have, much to the annoyance of the SO. "Pick something already," she'd say as I watch yet another trailer and look for reviews on my phone.
It has made the algorithm that suggests things to me sometimes interesting, but I usually blitz through the "For You" and "Because You Watched" sections and just hit up generic categories, then browse, browse, browse.
Did streaming make it so people who don't want to browse don't have to, and just be fed their favorites? Sure. It worked the same way at Blockbuster when you walked in and faced the wall of New Releases and Popular Titles, only now it's personalized, which is a good thing. Because you can still browse.
Browsing Kanopy is actually quite fun as their library is immediately different on first glance (and a significant amount of Criterion movies are on there, too!). But browsing Prime, Hulu, Netflix, etc.? You'd be surprised at the amount of odd things that are on these services.
posted by linux at 2:13 PM on March 23, 2021
Is there any reason to believe that netflix's DVD library has shrunk? I scanned the article and did not see it.
I have had the same experience as the author, where disks are moved to your "saved" queue and eventually disappear from the site entirely.
This includes disks that I had previously rented.
I think the longest lived title in my saved queue has been there for at least a year.
So either they are going missing and netflix isn't replacing them or they have decided to no longer have that title in inventory.
Either way, they are no longer available.
posted by madajb at 2:15 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have had the same experience as the author, where disks are moved to your "saved" queue and eventually disappear from the site entirely.
This includes disks that I had previously rented.
I think the longest lived title in my saved queue has been there for at least a year.
So either they are going missing and netflix isn't replacing them or they have decided to no longer have that title in inventory.
Either way, they are no longer available.
posted by madajb at 2:15 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
Tbf, there’s now the criterion channel, though its existence is of course another sign of the ongoing fragmenting of streaming into more niche services.
I mentioned this in a parenthetical above, but here's me adding more about it. Kanopy works like a library: you need a card from a participating library and you have a limited number of tokens a month to use to watch something.
And Kanopy has a Criterion collection. Of significant size. For free.
posted by linux at 2:18 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I mentioned this in a parenthetical above, but here's me adding more about it. Kanopy works like a library: you need a card from a participating library and you have a limited number of tokens a month to use to watch something.
And Kanopy has a Criterion collection. Of significant size. For free.
posted by linux at 2:18 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I miss the ability to hear about a movie and have a place to quickly go and add it to my queue, perhaps never to be reached, but at least remember.
Now, I can’t even remember.
posted by meinvt at 2:20 PM on March 23, 2021
Now, I can’t even remember.
posted by meinvt at 2:20 PM on March 23, 2021
I find it strange that nowhere in this article is any mention of Redbox, which for years has had the largest share of the physical DVD rental business. I’d be willing to bet that DVD.com considers Redbox to be it’s biggest competitor, which makes the choice to focus on a smaller library of the most popular titles (like Redbox does) pretty obvious.
posted by cali at 2:24 PM on March 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by cali at 2:24 PM on March 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
Not only is Netflix scaling way back on their DVD library, they are also acquiring a much less diverse field of content than they did in the beginning. It is very difficult to get Netflix to look seriously at a documentary or a foreign film, because their business model is shifting to original programming, that is, acquiring movies off a festival run and slapping their name on it as "Netflix Original." And making their own productions, of course. This was always their plan. It is often very bad for filmmakers.
This is starting to happen with other services as well. Amazon doesn't even accept streaming documentary films from distributors anymore. Amazon was a great platform to work with for a long time because it was basically the yard sale of the internet and they would accept any movie you threw at them (as you have probably assumed if you've ever browsed very deeply!), but they are pulling the plug. Now that they are moving more aggressively into releasing their own branded content, they don't need to work with the smaller companies anymore.
Kanopy is often heralded for being "free," but it is a for-profit corporation just like Netflix and Amazon, and their business model hasn't scaled up very well, to the point that New York Public Library system had to bail. You know what is a great cost-benefit prospect for public libraries? DVDs!
All of this is very bad for anyone who likes to discover new cool shit and not just watch the new series from the Duplass brothers. There are a lot of boutique SVOD services trying to fill the gap.
posted by cakelite at 2:29 PM on March 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
This is starting to happen with other services as well. Amazon doesn't even accept streaming documentary films from distributors anymore. Amazon was a great platform to work with for a long time because it was basically the yard sale of the internet and they would accept any movie you threw at them (as you have probably assumed if you've ever browsed very deeply!), but they are pulling the plug. Now that they are moving more aggressively into releasing their own branded content, they don't need to work with the smaller companies anymore.
Kanopy is often heralded for being "free," but it is a for-profit corporation just like Netflix and Amazon, and their business model hasn't scaled up very well, to the point that New York Public Library system had to bail. You know what is a great cost-benefit prospect for public libraries? DVDs!
All of this is very bad for anyone who likes to discover new cool shit and not just watch the new series from the Duplass brothers. There are a lot of boutique SVOD services trying to fill the gap.
posted by cakelite at 2:29 PM on March 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
I still rent Netflix DVDS. For older titles, they can't be beat, and I love the DVD extras, such as deleted scenes. The new Jumanji sequel has a ton of extra content that was fun to watch, and you don't get any of that stuff from streaming unless you want to track down the bits and pieces on Youtube. It's too bad that Netflix is going to let it wither on the vine.
posted by Beholder at 2:30 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Beholder at 2:30 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
There was something special about going the few blocks to a rental place, and discovering titles, that I do not get from any streaming service.
Huh. It’s exactly the opposite for me. I hated the process of going to a rental place and browsing. Knowing that I had to commit to a movie stressed me out. What if it sucked? What if my boyfriend/roommate hated it? I always felt like my friends/family/SO were judging my selection — and frankly they usually were, because it was always for group viewing, so we had to agree on something. Plus the worry about wasting money and a trip on something that turned out to be stupid. I never felt like I could just discover and experiment.
Anyway, we mostly had Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, and they did not exactly have a deep catalogue of brilliant underground films to be discovered.
With streaming, I feel much more free to experiment, even for viewing with others. If something looks even a little bit interesting, I can just give it a try. If it sucks, we can just turn it off and watch something else — no harm, no foul. I actually have discovered some enjoyable things that way — things I would never, ever have been sure enough about to rent.
posted by snowmentality at 2:38 PM on March 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
Huh. It’s exactly the opposite for me. I hated the process of going to a rental place and browsing. Knowing that I had to commit to a movie stressed me out. What if it sucked? What if my boyfriend/roommate hated it? I always felt like my friends/family/SO were judging my selection — and frankly they usually were, because it was always for group viewing, so we had to agree on something. Plus the worry about wasting money and a trip on something that turned out to be stupid. I never felt like I could just discover and experiment.
Anyway, we mostly had Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, and they did not exactly have a deep catalogue of brilliant underground films to be discovered.
With streaming, I feel much more free to experiment, even for viewing with others. If something looks even a little bit interesting, I can just give it a try. If it sucks, we can just turn it off and watch something else — no harm, no foul. I actually have discovered some enjoyable things that way — things I would never, ever have been sure enough about to rent.
posted by snowmentality at 2:38 PM on March 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm irked* that there's not more (any) porn in the "mainstream" streaming services. Then again, I watched bits of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" on Disney+ last night, which I know isn't porn but even still... what a world we live in.
(*Not really irked. Finding porn to watch is ... trivial.)
posted by chavenet at 2:42 PM on March 23, 2021
(*Not really irked. Finding porn to watch is ... trivial.)
posted by chavenet at 2:42 PM on March 23, 2021
As to Kanopy, I’ve been told that each movie you watch on their “free” service costs the library, whose card you used to sign up with Kanopy, something like $2 per movie. Given the sad state of library finances I feel sort of bad about using Kanopy. As to library DVDs, a set of coasters usually plays better than their actual severely scratched up DVDs.
posted by njohnson23 at 2:45 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by njohnson23 at 2:45 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
> Please go to your local library. You're going to find a lot of DVDs and Blu-rays. Many of them are out of print.
Better hurry though, because anything that rare or unusual gets stolen fairly quickly.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:47 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Better hurry though, because anything that rare or unusual gets stolen fairly quickly.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:47 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've gotten used to Netflix where, at least in my experience, any show/movie that is not in English has at least subtitles in English and the original spoken language.
FWIW, I have found quite the opposite. Not to say that it's any worse than the situation with DVDs, but for some reason subtitles for many shows are weirdly, and seemingly deliberately, unavailable on Netflix in the language spoken, at least when viewed from a US IP address. (And even VPNs have been of limited help in getting Japanese-language subtitles for Japanese shows, even though Japanese subtitles are readily available for lots of non-Japanese shows.)
I've entertained a theory that it is part of some plot to underpay subtitlers, but I have no idea if that even makes sense. Probably more likely, it's just the same malign indifference that makes non-English (and especially non-Roman) books so cussedly hard to find on Amazon.
posted by Not A Thing at 2:55 PM on March 23, 2021
FWIW, I have found quite the opposite. Not to say that it's any worse than the situation with DVDs, but for some reason subtitles for many shows are weirdly, and seemingly deliberately, unavailable on Netflix in the language spoken, at least when viewed from a US IP address. (And even VPNs have been of limited help in getting Japanese-language subtitles for Japanese shows, even though Japanese subtitles are readily available for lots of non-Japanese shows.)
I've entertained a theory that it is part of some plot to underpay subtitlers, but I have no idea if that even makes sense. Probably more likely, it's just the same malign indifference that makes non-English (and especially non-Roman) books so cussedly hard to find on Amazon.
posted by Not A Thing at 2:55 PM on March 23, 2021
iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there.
Hah, but iTunes was cool enough for you to take that salary for 3 years, wasn't it Trent???
I kid, I kid. We both came in via the Beats Music acquisition. He was the CMO at Beats Music, and had some artist relations job when we went to the "iTunes Store" part of Apple. That guy wasn't happy unless he had like 15 concurrent full time jobs.
The complaint therefore is not that these movies can't be seen. It's that they can't be seen... for no extra charge after already having paid for a subscription service.
This is the crux of the matter. While there are situations where either the rights holders don't want to go the legal hassle of getting things up to stuff (such as solving the music clearances for Homicide: Life on the Street), or properties where multiple parties are involved in active litigation (which happened to the early Popeye stuff forever), most everything else is available digitally. People just want it for free, or for whatever they are already paying other services.
posted by sideshow at 3:00 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Hah, but iTunes was cool enough for you to take that salary for 3 years, wasn't it Trent???
I kid, I kid. We both came in via the Beats Music acquisition. He was the CMO at Beats Music, and had some artist relations job when we went to the "iTunes Store" part of Apple. That guy wasn't happy unless he had like 15 concurrent full time jobs.
The complaint therefore is not that these movies can't be seen. It's that they can't be seen... for no extra charge after already having paid for a subscription service.
This is the crux of the matter. While there are situations where either the rights holders don't want to go the legal hassle of getting things up to stuff (such as solving the music clearances for Homicide: Life on the Street), or properties where multiple parties are involved in active litigation (which happened to the early Popeye stuff forever), most everything else is available digitally. People just want it for free, or for whatever they are already paying other services.
posted by sideshow at 3:00 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
DVDs are uniquely awful because they play from the centre of the disc outwards, and when a DVD gets knocked around it tends to take damage towards the outside of the disc. So the disc is most likely to skip, judder and fail towards the end of the movie, right at the worst possible time for it to do so.
I've no love lost for optical media. It's just too damn fragile. But I do enjoy getting movies from the library! So my drill, a sponge buffing pad and Meguiar's Ultra Cut is often a central feature of movie nights. Toothpaste? Pah. Ultra Cut will sort anything out.
Keep the pad moving or you'll melt the disc.
posted by FeatherWatt at 3:03 PM on March 23, 2021
I've no love lost for optical media. It's just too damn fragile. But I do enjoy getting movies from the library! So my drill, a sponge buffing pad and Meguiar's Ultra Cut is often a central feature of movie nights. Toothpaste? Pah. Ultra Cut will sort anything out.
Keep the pad moving or you'll melt the disc.
posted by FeatherWatt at 3:03 PM on March 23, 2021
Vox.com piece on the topic of the DVD-to-streaming shift at Netflix, with some commentary from Vorel.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:10 PM on March 23, 2021
posted by soundguy99 at 3:10 PM on March 23, 2021
Or you could do the library a solid and fix it with toothpaste.
Keep the pad moving or you'll melt the disc.
I know your hearts are in the right place, but please, let the library do its own repairs to its materials.
My library has automated buffing machines that remove the minimum required amount from the surface of the disc, so as to maximize its longevity. Toothpaste and power drills are the equivalent of repairing books with Scotch tape--it might get you through the next checkout, but it's not the long-term play.
posted by box at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2021 [20 favorites]
Keep the pad moving or you'll melt the disc.
I know your hearts are in the right place, but please, let the library do its own repairs to its materials.
My library has automated buffing machines that remove the minimum required amount from the surface of the disc, so as to maximize its longevity. Toothpaste and power drills are the equivalent of repairing books with Scotch tape--it might get you through the next checkout, but it's not the long-term play.
posted by box at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2021 [20 favorites]
most everything else is available digitally.
This has not been my experience. More often than not, when I've learned of an interesting movie or show (through some source other than the streaming services themselves), I have been utterly unable to find it streaming on any US-accessible service. (Of course geofencing is a huge part of the problem here, and while we're on the topic, everyone involved in spreading that toxic idea to DVD "regions" should be forever banned from polite society. Or any society.) Or at best I'll only find a few digital traces that show that it used to be available somewhere online and no longer is.
Poking at my browser history, an obvious example is the Belgian show Cordon, which seems like it should have had a breakout moment about a year ago, but which I still can't find available anywhere. The Bong Joon Ho movie Memories of Murder was in this category for a while, but as of my latest Google search it seems to have resurfaced on YouTube Premium. The Korean movies YMCA Baseball Team and Attack the Gas Station, which don't have quite the same star power, are still in the wind AFAICT.
The constant cycle of disappearance and re-surfacing makes it hard to say anything with confidence. A huge number of Korean dramas and movies used to be available on Netflix, were unceremoniously dumped, and have now come back on Vudu or some other random platform (except the ones that haven't).
I've framed this as a US problem, on account of I live here. But it seems likely to be basically the same problem everywhere (although the exact shows and movies will vary). Is anyone tracking what gets fenced out and what comes back, and when?
posted by Not A Thing at 3:29 PM on March 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
This has not been my experience. More often than not, when I've learned of an interesting movie or show (through some source other than the streaming services themselves), I have been utterly unable to find it streaming on any US-accessible service. (Of course geofencing is a huge part of the problem here, and while we're on the topic, everyone involved in spreading that toxic idea to DVD "regions" should be forever banned from polite society. Or any society.) Or at best I'll only find a few digital traces that show that it used to be available somewhere online and no longer is.
Poking at my browser history, an obvious example is the Belgian show Cordon, which seems like it should have had a breakout moment about a year ago, but which I still can't find available anywhere. The Bong Joon Ho movie Memories of Murder was in this category for a while, but as of my latest Google search it seems to have resurfaced on YouTube Premium. The Korean movies YMCA Baseball Team and Attack the Gas Station, which don't have quite the same star power, are still in the wind AFAICT.
The constant cycle of disappearance and re-surfacing makes it hard to say anything with confidence. A huge number of Korean dramas and movies used to be available on Netflix, were unceremoniously dumped, and have now come back on Vudu or some other random platform (except the ones that haven't).
I've framed this as a US problem, on account of I live here. But it seems likely to be basically the same problem everywhere (although the exact shows and movies will vary). Is anyone tracking what gets fenced out and what comes back, and when?
posted by Not A Thing at 3:29 PM on March 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
I broadly agree with the article, and a lot of the sentiments expressed here. An aspect of this I think hasn't been touched on though is the way in which modern video media has bonkers amount of DRM built into it. I gave up on collecting movies some time ago because media companies hate the idea of people owning a copy of a video they buy.
Ultimately I feel like this has all been by design, as streaming provides a level of content security which satisfies the powers that be. I don't think laziness killed the video store (I really miss them), but rather media companies' fear of letting libraries/video stores/individuals amass collections outside of corporate control.
I still collect music (bandcamp), video games (gog), and books (books!), and it perplexes me why movies and television cannot follow a more open model. Maybe there are good reasons, but I suspect it's just a combination of historical accident and short-sighted greed.
posted by Alex404 at 3:57 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
Ultimately I feel like this has all been by design, as streaming provides a level of content security which satisfies the powers that be. I don't think laziness killed the video store (I really miss them), but rather media companies' fear of letting libraries/video stores/individuals amass collections outside of corporate control.
I still collect music (bandcamp), video games (gog), and books (books!), and it perplexes me why movies and television cannot follow a more open model. Maybe there are good reasons, but I suspect it's just a combination of historical accident and short-sighted greed.
posted by Alex404 at 3:57 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is one of the reasons that the Hollywood Theater in Portland bought the collection of Movie Madness. There are a lot of films there that are not streaming and likely never will be, not to mention the massive haul of memorabilia on display.
(Did something similar happen to Scarecrow Video in Seattle or am I misremembering?)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:31 PM on March 23, 2021
(Did something similar happen to Scarecrow Video in Seattle or am I misremembering?)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:31 PM on March 23, 2021
I remain a die-hard DVD fan. I have a send-me-discs-in-the-mail Netflix subscription (apparently it's been DVD.com for a long time now? I hadn't noticed. I don't actually care), and I am also a very heavy borrower of DVDs from my fantastic public library.
I have not actually noticed things disappearing from the Netflix DVD service. I mean, I'm sure it's happening - I do occasionally notice something has dropped from Queue into Saved - but I still have 384 items in my queue, along with 112 items in Saved, so it's not like I'm hurting for options. (And once in a great while, something actually does move from Saved into the Queue.)
I will stick with DVDs for as long as I can, because they have bonus features I never see on streaming services, and they don't have the world's most annoying interfaces ruining my movie night - I hate, hate, hate the previews that streaming services show before movies (I actually LIKE trailers, but only if I'm in the mood, and only when I know it's not going to be featuring some bloody thriller when I've settled in for a heartwarming romcom); and I am an inveterate credits watcher, and it infuriates me to have to jump up to keep the streaming service from cutting off the credits (yes, I have heard of these things called "remotes" but I haven't gotten around to replacing the one that works with my computer) - or even to have an obnoxious set of controls appear over the credits when I pause to read something.
I do watch a fair amount of stuff on streaming services, but I usually do a trial month or two with a service and then cancel as soon as I've watched the things I cared about.
I would infinitely rather watch a good movie from DVD.
Fortunately, thanks to my library and the still-extensive collection of DVDs at Netflix (sorry, DVD.com), I still have plenty of options in my preferred format ... at least for the time being.
(Another reason to support public libraries - they keep less "profitable" formats available to the general public. I am such a fan of my library.)
posted by kristi at 4:36 PM on March 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have not actually noticed things disappearing from the Netflix DVD service. I mean, I'm sure it's happening - I do occasionally notice something has dropped from Queue into Saved - but I still have 384 items in my queue, along with 112 items in Saved, so it's not like I'm hurting for options. (And once in a great while, something actually does move from Saved into the Queue.)
I will stick with DVDs for as long as I can, because they have bonus features I never see on streaming services, and they don't have the world's most annoying interfaces ruining my movie night - I hate, hate, hate the previews that streaming services show before movies (I actually LIKE trailers, but only if I'm in the mood, and only when I know it's not going to be featuring some bloody thriller when I've settled in for a heartwarming romcom); and I am an inveterate credits watcher, and it infuriates me to have to jump up to keep the streaming service from cutting off the credits (yes, I have heard of these things called "remotes" but I haven't gotten around to replacing the one that works with my computer) - or even to have an obnoxious set of controls appear over the credits when I pause to read something.
I do watch a fair amount of stuff on streaming services, but I usually do a trial month or two with a service and then cancel as soon as I've watched the things I cared about.
I would infinitely rather watch a good movie from DVD.
Fortunately, thanks to my library and the still-extensive collection of DVDs at Netflix (sorry, DVD.com), I still have plenty of options in my preferred format ... at least for the time being.
(Another reason to support public libraries - they keep less "profitable" formats available to the general public. I am such a fan of my library.)
posted by kristi at 4:36 PM on March 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have not actually noticed things disappearing from the Netflix DVD service. I mean, I'm sure it's happening - I do occasionally notice something has dropped from Queue into Saved - but I still have 384 items in my queue, along with 112 items in Saved
That’s huge. If a physical store advertised lots of products, but a quarter of them were not only sold out, but practically out of print, there would be an outcry.
I have been a Netflix member for almost 2 decades. About 20% of my queue disappeared into the Saved section. Sometimes it’s discs I’ve checked out multiple times, but I guess Netflix decided they no longer sparked joy.
posted by Monochrome at 4:57 PM on March 23, 2021
That’s huge. If a physical store advertised lots of products, but a quarter of them were not only sold out, but practically out of print, there would be an outcry.
I have been a Netflix member for almost 2 decades. About 20% of my queue disappeared into the Saved section. Sometimes it’s discs I’ve checked out multiple times, but I guess Netflix decided they no longer sparked joy.
posted by Monochrome at 4:57 PM on March 23, 2021
I have been a Netflix member for almost 2 decades.
Me too! I loved it when I was single. I was really disciplined about watching the movies the day I got them and mailing them back the next day, so I was able to watch tons of movies without spending a lot of money.
Now we have a bunch of DVDs that we never watch. I wanted to digitize them and put them on a movie server so we could use Plex to watch them on on our TV, but my spouse balked at the cost of the server.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:13 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Me too! I loved it when I was single. I was really disciplined about watching the movies the day I got them and mailing them back the next day, so I was able to watch tons of movies without spending a lot of money.
Now we have a bunch of DVDs that we never watch. I wanted to digitize them and put them on a movie server so we could use Plex to watch them on on our TV, but my spouse balked at the cost of the server.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:13 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
There are a lot of films there that are not streaming and likely never will be
Even if licensing ever gets sorted out, many production companies no longer exist.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:25 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
Even if licensing ever gets sorted out, many production companies no longer exist.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:25 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I just don't really think this is true. Speaking as someone who works in home media sales (DVDs, streaming, all that stuff), my colleagues who have been in the business for a long time remember the 80's and 90's as being a pretty amazing time.
I think the picture for rental vs sales is more complex than rising figures from a wholesale perspective would suggest. One thing to remember, when thinking about home video consumption in the last ~25 years, is that DVD changed things for rental almost as much as streaming did. While DVD sales were fantastic, DVD rental never took off in the way that VHS rental did (at its peak DVD rental was somewhere around 50% of peak VHS rental, with much less diversity of stock). In particular, it should be noted that, around the turn of the century, supermarkets and other non-specialist retailers switched from offering VHS rental as a loss-leader to using DVD retail in the same role. Places like Walmart and Tesco were causing serious harm to the English-language rental market for some years before Netflix became a concern.
Home video became available outside Japan in 1977, and the rental industry as traditionally conceived of was pretty much done by 2017, so maybe we can call home video rental a roughly 40 year era. Of those 40 years, the period 1987-1997 was the golden age of rental, in which there genuinely was a very good chance of finding a thriving, or at least comfortably surviving, independent video store in most towns. It can't be denied some people were making good money in rental after this, but, by that point, a huge and increasing amount of market share and profit belonged to Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, both of which (the former in particular) carried a much shallower stock than independent stores, focusing mainly on high turnover titles. The shift to DVD, with its lower per unit production cost, made sales (particularly TV box-set sales) a more viable model, and accelerated an already developing trend. There's more complexity to it than this (Redbox, in particular, seems to have bucked some trends for at least some period of time), but I think it's reasonable to say that capitalism was eating diversity and forcing interesting movie stocking policies toward the financial margins long before streaming was a thing.
I share many people's nostalgia for the independent video store, but also remember that it was getting increasingly difficult to find a good example of such a thing by 2000. Technological change has played a big part in how things played out, but the primary drivers have, ultimately, been economic ones.
posted by howfar at 5:59 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think the picture for rental vs sales is more complex than rising figures from a wholesale perspective would suggest. One thing to remember, when thinking about home video consumption in the last ~25 years, is that DVD changed things for rental almost as much as streaming did. While DVD sales were fantastic, DVD rental never took off in the way that VHS rental did (at its peak DVD rental was somewhere around 50% of peak VHS rental, with much less diversity of stock). In particular, it should be noted that, around the turn of the century, supermarkets and other non-specialist retailers switched from offering VHS rental as a loss-leader to using DVD retail in the same role. Places like Walmart and Tesco were causing serious harm to the English-language rental market for some years before Netflix became a concern.
Home video became available outside Japan in 1977, and the rental industry as traditionally conceived of was pretty much done by 2017, so maybe we can call home video rental a roughly 40 year era. Of those 40 years, the period 1987-1997 was the golden age of rental, in which there genuinely was a very good chance of finding a thriving, or at least comfortably surviving, independent video store in most towns. It can't be denied some people were making good money in rental after this, but, by that point, a huge and increasing amount of market share and profit belonged to Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, both of which (the former in particular) carried a much shallower stock than independent stores, focusing mainly on high turnover titles. The shift to DVD, with its lower per unit production cost, made sales (particularly TV box-set sales) a more viable model, and accelerated an already developing trend. There's more complexity to it than this (Redbox, in particular, seems to have bucked some trends for at least some period of time), but I think it's reasonable to say that capitalism was eating diversity and forcing interesting movie stocking policies toward the financial margins long before streaming was a thing.
I share many people's nostalgia for the independent video store, but also remember that it was getting increasingly difficult to find a good example of such a thing by 2000. Technological change has played a big part in how things played out, but the primary drivers have, ultimately, been economic ones.
posted by howfar at 5:59 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Netflix was well beyond 100,000 titles strong
Today's private sites are larger than this. That's curated movies, each with its own page, trailers, synopsis, etc.
And unless something has changed recently, I have more movies stored locally on my computer than all of Netflix streaming. I overtook them last year, even though I haven't added new content in ages. My collection is only larger because Netflix has kept shrinking.
posted by ryanrs at 6:35 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Today's private sites are larger than this. That's curated movies, each with its own page, trailers, synopsis, etc.
And unless something has changed recently, I have more movies stored locally on my computer than all of Netflix streaming. I overtook them last year, even though I haven't added new content in ages. My collection is only larger because Netflix has kept shrinking.
posted by ryanrs at 6:35 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Now we have a bunch of DVDs that we never watch. I wanted to digitize them and put them on a movie server so we could use Plex to watch them on on our TV, but my spouse balked at the cost of the server
Depending on your needs, you could put them onto an external hard drive (HDD is fine) and then use a local computer as a server. I got by with this setup for quite some time, until I got sick of cables. There are all sorts of personal ifs about this, but just my experience.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:36 PM on March 23, 2021
Depending on your needs, you could put them onto an external hard drive (HDD is fine) and then use a local computer as a server. I got by with this setup for quite some time, until I got sick of cables. There are all sorts of personal ifs about this, but just my experience.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:36 PM on March 23, 2021
I won't re-up with Netflix until the last season of Better Call Saul starts. The movie selection now is simply sad, at least the US English selection. I'll be happy to watch "Mank" as well.
I have a DVD player waiting for me in storage, and I'm looking forward to getting some DVDs out of the (Mexican city) library (after library visits are safer than they are now). I'm looking forward to seeing what Mexican libraries and stores offer: Criterion is devoid of much of Buñuel's Mexican work, for example, and YouTube scans aren't great.
But one thing I really don't miss about DVDs: the obnoxious fragility of the medium. Worse than vinyl records.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 7:06 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have a DVD player waiting for me in storage, and I'm looking forward to getting some DVDs out of the (Mexican city) library (after library visits are safer than they are now). I'm looking forward to seeing what Mexican libraries and stores offer: Criterion is devoid of much of Buñuel's Mexican work, for example, and YouTube scans aren't great.
But one thing I really don't miss about DVDs: the obnoxious fragility of the medium. Worse than vinyl records.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 7:06 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't miss the very early days of Netflix, when it took over a week to turn around a rental even if you used the "I returned this" button on the website because they were shipping and receiving from exactly one location in California.
I very much miss the days when they unexpectedly sent me a nice DVD holder to help ensure nothing got lost and they had set up regional distribution facilities such that rentals could be turned around in 3 days and they were still charging me only $8.99 a month for four DVDs at a time. The only reason to sail the high seas in search of booty was impatience.
I abandoned my boat for a while, but the increasing balkanization of streaming services has caused me to start fixing it up again. It's sad how hard won lessons are forgotten so quickly.
posted by wierdo at 8:11 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I very much miss the days when they unexpectedly sent me a nice DVD holder to help ensure nothing got lost and they had set up regional distribution facilities such that rentals could be turned around in 3 days and they were still charging me only $8.99 a month for four DVDs at a time. The only reason to sail the high seas in search of booty was impatience.
I abandoned my boat for a while, but the increasing balkanization of streaming services has caused me to start fixing it up again. It's sad how hard won lessons are forgotten so quickly.
posted by wierdo at 8:11 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
But browsing Prime
Prime Video in particular seems to be a hotbed of obscure and deeply weird shit, often with an excellent premise but terrible production values. Also a bunch of insane conspiracy theory movies and masturbatory Libertarian propaganda.
The UI is total shit, but if you can find it there is stuff that in years past would never have seen the light of day anywhere, even the most arty of art house theaters. Amazon has the advantage of nearly everybody else in the world paying for AWS, meaning their incremental cost of storing and streaming a film is zero. Not near zero, actually zero since it uses storage space that they'd buy regardless and bandwidth on peering links that would otherwise go unused. The only cost is licensing, which I expect is close enough to free from their perspective that they see no downside to buying streaming rights to just about anything if there's even a chance some people will watch it.
posted by wierdo at 8:30 PM on March 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
Prime Video in particular seems to be a hotbed of obscure and deeply weird shit, often with an excellent premise but terrible production values. Also a bunch of insane conspiracy theory movies and masturbatory Libertarian propaganda.
The UI is total shit, but if you can find it there is stuff that in years past would never have seen the light of day anywhere, even the most arty of art house theaters. Amazon has the advantage of nearly everybody else in the world paying for AWS, meaning their incremental cost of storing and streaming a film is zero. Not near zero, actually zero since it uses storage space that they'd buy regardless and bandwidth on peering links that would otherwise go unused. The only cost is licensing, which I expect is close enough to free from their perspective that they see no downside to buying streaming rights to just about anything if there's even a chance some people will watch it.
posted by wierdo at 8:30 PM on March 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
Chicago's venerable cinephile haven Facets Multimedia has a rent-by-mail service for their deep, deep catalog. $10/month plus $6 shipping for 3 movies at a time.
Facet's oversized print catalog was a feature in my home growing up. This summer I cleaned out my mom's condo and found a clutch of musty pages in the storage unit. Six or seven columns of blurbs in tiny type, dozens of listings per page. Glancing through, hundreds of obscure films were familiar to me even though I'd never seen them, just from thumbing through the catalog decades ago. I can't imagine forming such lasting memories from browsing through the streaming services. I can never figure out where anything is anyway and let my wife navigate.
We go through movies slowly at our place, and I've got an old Netflix DVD list a yard long on my shared account under my wife's main account. Netflix got rid of shared accounts years ago but somehow my list remains, inaccessible to my wife or me. Every few weeks it sends us a surprise, some whim from my younger self, whenever we get around to sending an envelope back. I don't know what will happen to my curatorial efforts with the purge of so many titles, but feel like I should see it through. Once it's exhausted, I'll set up our Facets membership. I have a feeling Facets will outlive DVD.com anyway.
posted by hydrophonic at 9:02 PM on March 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
Facet's oversized print catalog was a feature in my home growing up. This summer I cleaned out my mom's condo and found a clutch of musty pages in the storage unit. Six or seven columns of blurbs in tiny type, dozens of listings per page. Glancing through, hundreds of obscure films were familiar to me even though I'd never seen them, just from thumbing through the catalog decades ago. I can't imagine forming such lasting memories from browsing through the streaming services. I can never figure out where anything is anyway and let my wife navigate.
We go through movies slowly at our place, and I've got an old Netflix DVD list a yard long on my shared account under my wife's main account. Netflix got rid of shared accounts years ago but somehow my list remains, inaccessible to my wife or me. Every few weeks it sends us a surprise, some whim from my younger self, whenever we get around to sending an envelope back. I don't know what will happen to my curatorial efforts with the purge of so many titles, but feel like I should see it through. Once it's exhausted, I'll set up our Facets membership. I have a feeling Facets will outlive DVD.com anyway.
posted by hydrophonic at 9:02 PM on March 23, 2021 [5 favorites]
“It can't be denied some people were making good money in rental after this, but, by that point, a huge and increasing amount of market share and profit belonged to Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, both of which (the former in particular) carried a much shallower stock than independent stores, focusing mainly on high turnover titles. “
What I think people don’t remember is that there used to be much less content. The amount of VHS title available to rent in 2000 was infinitesimal compared to what people can access at home today. Even going by the obvious assumption that big Hollywood properties would edge out lesser-known films, even the well-known chains had to fill out their stock. Who cares if it had high turnover? It’s all in a landfill now anyway. I remember going to my local Hollywood Video as a little kid, before I could even read, and trying to puzzle out the backs of the VHS boxes in the horror section. I was especially intrigued by Eraserhead. What was this arthouse midnight movie (and this was pre-Twin Peaks) doing in a suburban Hollywood Video? The manager probably ordered one of each of whatever was in the reseller catalog that month. Even the tiniest little distributors you can imagine, the ones that release black and white lesbian comedies and French movies about siblings having sex with each other were making huge profits off of wholesale to video rental companies up until the mid-late 2000s. None of these companies have yet to completely figure out how to compensate financially for the death of physical media.
“I think it's reasonable to say that capitalism was eating diversity and forcing interesting movie stocking policies toward the financial margins long before streaming was a thing.“
Well of course. The movie business has been edging out “quality” and “interesting” in the interests of profit margins since its inception. That is just an ever-present factor at play.
I mean, rental obviously declined and eventually died, that’s pretty self-evident, I just question the idea that it was already wholly irrelevant when I signed up for my first Netflix membership in 2004. I just don’t remember much of a liminal period where video stores were passé but Netflix didn’t exist. (And I was in college - the ideal early adopter and avid media consumer!) Streaming won because once it is technologically feasible, people overwhelmingly prefer to access content from home as opposed to driving to the video store. It’s a new technology replacing one that has become obsolete. Companies like Blockbuster did not invest time and money into trying to stay ahead of changing times and they were replaced by entities that did.
posted by cakelite at 9:06 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
What I think people don’t remember is that there used to be much less content. The amount of VHS title available to rent in 2000 was infinitesimal compared to what people can access at home today. Even going by the obvious assumption that big Hollywood properties would edge out lesser-known films, even the well-known chains had to fill out their stock. Who cares if it had high turnover? It’s all in a landfill now anyway. I remember going to my local Hollywood Video as a little kid, before I could even read, and trying to puzzle out the backs of the VHS boxes in the horror section. I was especially intrigued by Eraserhead. What was this arthouse midnight movie (and this was pre-Twin Peaks) doing in a suburban Hollywood Video? The manager probably ordered one of each of whatever was in the reseller catalog that month. Even the tiniest little distributors you can imagine, the ones that release black and white lesbian comedies and French movies about siblings having sex with each other were making huge profits off of wholesale to video rental companies up until the mid-late 2000s. None of these companies have yet to completely figure out how to compensate financially for the death of physical media.
“I think it's reasonable to say that capitalism was eating diversity and forcing interesting movie stocking policies toward the financial margins long before streaming was a thing.“
Well of course. The movie business has been edging out “quality” and “interesting” in the interests of profit margins since its inception. That is just an ever-present factor at play.
I mean, rental obviously declined and eventually died, that’s pretty self-evident, I just question the idea that it was already wholly irrelevant when I signed up for my first Netflix membership in 2004. I just don’t remember much of a liminal period where video stores were passé but Netflix didn’t exist. (And I was in college - the ideal early adopter and avid media consumer!) Streaming won because once it is technologically feasible, people overwhelmingly prefer to access content from home as opposed to driving to the video store. It’s a new technology replacing one that has become obsolete. Companies like Blockbuster did not invest time and money into trying to stay ahead of changing times and they were replaced by entities that did.
posted by cakelite at 9:06 PM on March 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
But browsing Prime
If a streaming service can remember what I rated a film then they can also remember to never show my any title that I wish never to be shown again. The inefficiency of the browser is a deliberate time waster, just the same as having to wait approximately forever before an ATT rep answers your ticket.
posted by Beholder at 10:47 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
If a streaming service can remember what I rated a film then they can also remember to never show my any title that I wish never to be shown again. The inefficiency of the browser is a deliberate time waster, just the same as having to wait approximately forever before an ATT rep answers your ticket.
posted by Beholder at 10:47 PM on March 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I temped for Netflix doing phone customer service back when they only did DVDs. Many requests for adult films, some requests for the same service but for VHS tapes, lots of tracking where DVDs tended to go missing and credit card fraud stuff.
posted by subocoyne at 10:58 PM on March 23, 2021
posted by subocoyne at 10:58 PM on March 23, 2021
The whole thing is capitalism hogwash that's hellbent on destroying art that isn't "profitable."
Just start allowing libraries to pull old movies from torrent sites or something, this is all just fucking absurd.
Capitalism is the system that enabled most of the movies we're talking about to be created in the first place.
And if everyone torrented everything, the capital that capitalists have poured into making films and TV would dry up.
It's not that I idealize capitalism -- by no means -- but I find sweeping attempts to blame it for everything bad that ever happens to be pretty simplistic.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:11 PM on March 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
Just start allowing libraries to pull old movies from torrent sites or something, this is all just fucking absurd.
Capitalism is the system that enabled most of the movies we're talking about to be created in the first place.
And if everyone torrented everything, the capital that capitalists have poured into making films and TV would dry up.
It's not that I idealize capitalism -- by no means -- but I find sweeping attempts to blame it for everything bad that ever happens to be pretty simplistic.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:11 PM on March 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
What I think people don’t remember is that there used to be much less content. The amount of VHS title available to rent in 2000 was infinitesimal compared to what people can access at home today.
Unless you’re including pirate sites in that count, I wonder if you’re misremembering. The big indie video store near CU Boulder used to claim 50,000 titles for rent in its heyday and even that is weak compared to Scarecrow, which today claims to have 130,000. I don’t know what the exact numbers were in 2000, but I think they were competitive with today’s streaming services — according to Wikipedia, iTunes offered 65,000 film titles in 2020.
posted by Mothlight at 11:28 PM on March 23, 2021
Unless you’re including pirate sites in that count, I wonder if you’re misremembering. The big indie video store near CU Boulder used to claim 50,000 titles for rent in its heyday and even that is weak compared to Scarecrow, which today claims to have 130,000. I don’t know what the exact numbers were in 2000, but I think they were competitive with today’s streaming services — according to Wikipedia, iTunes offered 65,000 film titles in 2020.
posted by Mothlight at 11:28 PM on March 23, 2021
In the era of video rental there were two different kinds of available. Things that were in the catalog and things that the managers of the various rental stores that happened to be nearby found interesting.
The former may as well have not existed for most people (even if you could get the catalog, they were stupid expensive even in today's dollars), and the latter included only whatever was popular enough that people would look for it specifically and be upset not to find it and whatever matched the idiosyncratic taste of said owners/managers. Not great if your taste didn't align with theirs.
There was one particular store when I was still in elementary school that had all kinds of weird and often terrible shit, including The Philadelphia Experiment, Buck Rogers, and other stuff that was rarely rented but I'm pretty sure that only worked as long as it did because the back room titles subsidized everything else.
That place shut down abruptly thanks to IRS trouble if I'm remembering correctly. After that the movie channels were far better sources of never-were-blockbusters than any of the rental stores in town. It was all box office hits during prime time (except for Encore when it first launched and literally only played 20+ year old films), but after the softcore porn through until noonish they'd play all kinds of totally obscure stuff just to fill the time.
The early days of HDTV on cable brought back that kind of "throw whatever we can find on the air" vibe back for a while because it was basically a tech demo they expected to lose money on while figuring out when/how to move their cash cows to HD, but it didn't last long. I still remember watching The Equalizer (the series) on Universal HD not because it was a great show but because it was like a damn time capsule, showing off the grime and seediness. I often forget how terrible VHS (and to a lesser extent DVD) actually was/is.
posted by wierdo at 12:52 AM on March 24, 2021
The former may as well have not existed for most people (even if you could get the catalog, they were stupid expensive even in today's dollars), and the latter included only whatever was popular enough that people would look for it specifically and be upset not to find it and whatever matched the idiosyncratic taste of said owners/managers. Not great if your taste didn't align with theirs.
There was one particular store when I was still in elementary school that had all kinds of weird and often terrible shit, including The Philadelphia Experiment, Buck Rogers, and other stuff that was rarely rented but I'm pretty sure that only worked as long as it did because the back room titles subsidized everything else.
That place shut down abruptly thanks to IRS trouble if I'm remembering correctly. After that the movie channels were far better sources of never-were-blockbusters than any of the rental stores in town. It was all box office hits during prime time (except for Encore when it first launched and literally only played 20+ year old films), but after the softcore porn through until noonish they'd play all kinds of totally obscure stuff just to fill the time.
The early days of HDTV on cable brought back that kind of "throw whatever we can find on the air" vibe back for a while because it was basically a tech demo they expected to lose money on while figuring out when/how to move their cash cows to HD, but it didn't last long. I still remember watching The Equalizer (the series) on Universal HD not because it was a great show but because it was like a damn time capsule, showing off the grime and seediness. I often forget how terrible VHS (and to a lesser extent DVD) actually was/is.
posted by wierdo at 12:52 AM on March 24, 2021
The Netflix DVD catalog was, for awhile, huge, but overstated in how available many of those titles were, as it seemed that a lot were single DVDs purchased to boost the claims of numbers, but were often quickly lost, broken or not returned, making the titles effectively empty placeholders unless you were one of the first to rent them. I know, for example, that Netflix bought a selection of the Warner Bros Pedro Infante dvds, a famous Mexican actor of the 50s, since I saw a couple and had others in my queue. When I would receive one, the title would be shown as a "wait", and the one's I had in queue would increasingly start to show that "wait" interminably. The same was true of their selection of Egyptian films from that era and many other really hard to find titles.
The "long tail" effect is what drew me in to Netflix, but is also what got me to abandon it as it became clear they weren't replacing those limited interest dvds when they were lost or damaged. That appears to be similar to the model Amazon works from, no cost to store the bandwidth so the number of selections becomes the draw to get people to sign up for Amazon Prime, in expectation they'll use the service for other purchases once they join. There's little money in the films themselves. With Netflix, that created another issue, where by centralizing and making access, or potential access to a single copy of a movie easier across the US, the companies that specialized in releasing limited appeal dvds suffered because they lost part of the limited market they had from consumers or, eventually, specialty video stores ordering the imprints.
In hindsight, that should have been the obvious effect, given the way Blockbuster killed off so many of the more film lover centered videostores. The centralization of mass market titles, made cheaper by bulk purchasing, took a lot of the traffic from the niche stores, who would then have to limit their purchases of less popular films and/or raise their prices to compensate, driving more people to Blockbuster.
Netflix wasn't the first company to recognize the value of streaming, they came somewhat late to that and faced a lot of pushback when they first tried to pivot from dvds, but once they did move consumers accepted watching movies online, they faced the problem of no longer having the same benefits dvd renting allowed, having to negotiate with the studios to show the films, so they pivoted again to production themselves, expecting people would stick with the site for the popular "older" titles until they could transition more fully to production. With Disney and other film companies seeing the value in streaming, Netflix knew it would lose the competitive edge in new releases from the big Hollywood players, so they instead are focused more on global sales by producing films in a wide variety of countries and languages to block off a section of the market for them to control.
It's a good, but by no means, certain bet, with US dominance in decline and growing competition from Chinese and other film markets and, for me, makes Netflix a bit more interesting again if I can stream shows and films from other parts of the world rather than the big ticket Hollywood stuff.
Incidentally, one of the other reasons I left Netflix way back when was because I kept getting cracked discs that there was no replacement for. When I once received five discs that were all cracked I took some pains to watch the postal worker who delivered to my building drop off the mail and saw how "tenderly" they crammed those dvds into the mail boxes, I'd say not caring if they were damaged but it was more actively trying to break them. Complained to the post office, as useless as I expected that to be, then dropped the service so others would have at least a slightly better chance of being able to get their films undamaged. For "long tail" movies, the Netflix mail system wasn't a great one with those envelopes doing so little to protect the films.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:38 AM on March 24, 2021
The "long tail" effect is what drew me in to Netflix, but is also what got me to abandon it as it became clear they weren't replacing those limited interest dvds when they were lost or damaged. That appears to be similar to the model Amazon works from, no cost to store the bandwidth so the number of selections becomes the draw to get people to sign up for Amazon Prime, in expectation they'll use the service for other purchases once they join. There's little money in the films themselves. With Netflix, that created another issue, where by centralizing and making access, or potential access to a single copy of a movie easier across the US, the companies that specialized in releasing limited appeal dvds suffered because they lost part of the limited market they had from consumers or, eventually, specialty video stores ordering the imprints.
In hindsight, that should have been the obvious effect, given the way Blockbuster killed off so many of the more film lover centered videostores. The centralization of mass market titles, made cheaper by bulk purchasing, took a lot of the traffic from the niche stores, who would then have to limit their purchases of less popular films and/or raise their prices to compensate, driving more people to Blockbuster.
Netflix wasn't the first company to recognize the value of streaming, they came somewhat late to that and faced a lot of pushback when they first tried to pivot from dvds, but once they did move consumers accepted watching movies online, they faced the problem of no longer having the same benefits dvd renting allowed, having to negotiate with the studios to show the films, so they pivoted again to production themselves, expecting people would stick with the site for the popular "older" titles until they could transition more fully to production. With Disney and other film companies seeing the value in streaming, Netflix knew it would lose the competitive edge in new releases from the big Hollywood players, so they instead are focused more on global sales by producing films in a wide variety of countries and languages to block off a section of the market for them to control.
It's a good, but by no means, certain bet, with US dominance in decline and growing competition from Chinese and other film markets and, for me, makes Netflix a bit more interesting again if I can stream shows and films from other parts of the world rather than the big ticket Hollywood stuff.
Incidentally, one of the other reasons I left Netflix way back when was because I kept getting cracked discs that there was no replacement for. When I once received five discs that were all cracked I took some pains to watch the postal worker who delivered to my building drop off the mail and saw how "tenderly" they crammed those dvds into the mail boxes, I'd say not caring if they were damaged but it was more actively trying to break them. Complained to the post office, as useless as I expected that to be, then dropped the service so others would have at least a slightly better chance of being able to get their films undamaged. For "long tail" movies, the Netflix mail system wasn't a great one with those envelopes doing so little to protect the films.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:38 AM on March 24, 2021
Though I should add that Netflix trying to "go global" carries a risk to other film releasing companies trying to basically be the Netflix of their areas of the world. This is already beginning to have an effect on African cinema, for example, where Nigeria is a big film production center and there are companies trying to corner that market for streaming.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:59 AM on March 24, 2021
posted by gusottertrout at 1:59 AM on March 24, 2021
50,000
When was this mysterious heyday? I never, not once in my life, have been in a video store that could provide anything near that quantity of films - and certainly not the mom and pop shops that were fighting with Hollywood Video.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:19 AM on March 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
When was this mysterious heyday? I never, not once in my life, have been in a video store that could provide anything near that quantity of films - and certainly not the mom and pop shops that were fighting with Hollywood Video.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:19 AM on March 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
The videostore I used to frequent had well over 30,000 titles before its demise, as can be seen in this commercial, the "when" of it might be best judged by their former webpage only linking their Myspace account. I last visited it back in 2007 when I moved from Minneapolis, it was gone by the time I returned for a visit in 2010, right when Netflix was hitting the big time as a streaming service.
posted by gusottertrout at 3:24 AM on March 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by gusottertrout at 3:24 AM on March 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Capitalism is the system that enabled most of the movies we're talking about to be created in the first place.
Mosfilm produced a lot of interesting stuff during the Soviet period and then went on to release it for free on youtube. Capitalism isn't the only way things get done.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:52 AM on March 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
Mosfilm produced a lot of interesting stuff during the Soviet period and then went on to release it for free on youtube. Capitalism isn't the only way things get done.
posted by drstrangelove at 3:52 AM on March 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
> I miss the ability to hear about a movie and have a place to quickly go and add it to my queue, perhaps never to be reached, but at least remember.
You can use one of the movie database sites (imdb; themoviedb; letterboxd) for that. I have a "to watch" list on the go.
posted by Aethelwulf at 8:04 AM on March 24, 2021
You can use one of the movie database sites (imdb; themoviedb; letterboxd) for that. I have a "to watch" list on the go.
posted by Aethelwulf at 8:04 AM on March 24, 2021
Please don't feel badly about using Kanopy from your local library. We estimate how many views we think we'll get in a given month and budget accordingly. If we find that there are more views than anticipated we can adjust the budget. You're not digging into our bottom line by watching Dian M for Murder. Go for it!
posted by Biblio at 8:32 AM on March 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Biblio at 8:32 AM on March 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
What about the Great Courses? They don't count toward my five-per-month, so who is absorbing that, the library or Kanopy?
posted by RobotHero at 10:21 AM on March 24, 2021
posted by RobotHero at 10:21 AM on March 24, 2021
This is what Kanopy is supposed to accomplish.
A bit upthread, but since we're still on the topic, I came here to respond to this and add to the point cakelite made above. Kanopy is just another streaming service whose primary customer base is libraries.
Which isn't to say that you should feel bad about using it, but it can be quite expensive without pretty aggressive monitoring, and it certainly doesn't allow libraries to "digitize stuff and make their own streaming servers."
posted by aspersioncast at 10:51 AM on March 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
A bit upthread, but since we're still on the topic, I came here to respond to this and add to the point cakelite made above. Kanopy is just another streaming service whose primary customer base is libraries.
Which isn't to say that you should feel bad about using it, but it can be quite expensive without pretty aggressive monitoring, and it certainly doesn't allow libraries to "digitize stuff and make their own streaming servers."
posted by aspersioncast at 10:51 AM on March 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Please don't feel badly about using Kanopy from your local library.
I don't feel badly about using Kanopy — our local taxes help pay for one of the best public library systems in the country — but I didn't know how Kanopy's business model worked, and so I now know what might explain the five-stream-per-month limit.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:52 PM on March 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't feel badly about using Kanopy — our local taxes help pay for one of the best public library systems in the country — but I didn't know how Kanopy's business model worked, and so I now know what might explain the five-stream-per-month limit.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:52 PM on March 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yes, I have also benefitted from hearing more about the Kanopy model. I've approached my local library (very small municipality, and unsure if an institutional subscription can be shared across a region of small libraries?) but knowing how this works is crucial to determining if it's a viable model for my library.
posted by elkevelvet at 5:11 PM on March 24, 2021
posted by elkevelvet at 5:11 PM on March 24, 2021
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The article has no way to answer this, but I wonder where all of the vanishing DVD.com movies are going. Probably dumpsters, but perhaps some number are headed home with employees. How I’d love a peek inside that infrastructure.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:21 PM on March 23, 2021 [4 favorites]