The High Cost of Clearing Tent Cities
April 18, 2021 12:37 PM Subscribe
Thank you! Surely housing could be built for less than the cost of repeated clearings?!!
I didn't realize there are regional differences in unhoused populations - veterans in CA but not Chi, Native in MSP, etc. I asume this points to differences in local resources or is it something else?
Not at all surprised that recognition that these are people living in a -community- and are from the places they can no longer afford to live is taking so long, but frustrating to see. I've heard misguided muttering on the west coast of the US about people 'visiting' during our mild summers yet surveys consistently show that people living here are from here, not random tourists.
posted by esoteric things at 1:07 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
I didn't realize there are regional differences in unhoused populations - veterans in CA but not Chi, Native in MSP, etc. I asume this points to differences in local resources or is it something else?
Not at all surprised that recognition that these are people living in a -community- and are from the places they can no longer afford to live is taking so long, but frustrating to see. I've heard misguided muttering on the west coast of the US about people 'visiting' during our mild summers yet surveys consistently show that people living here are from here, not random tourists.
posted by esoteric things at 1:07 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
I am just floored that there had to be a study done to find this out.
Isn't this, just kinda obvious? People aren't living in a tent under the highway because they love it, they are living there because they have no other option that works for them.
I live in Oakland and there are a ton of homeless folks here. The current cycle looks something like this: people complain about a camp, the cops mulch the encampment, and people move on to a new place. None of the root causes are ever addressed. Will a study like this make city administrators do something concrete about why homelessness happens?
posted by thebigdeadwaltz at 1:14 PM on April 18, 2021 [24 favorites]
Isn't this, just kinda obvious? People aren't living in a tent under the highway because they love it, they are living there because they have no other option that works for them.
I live in Oakland and there are a ton of homeless folks here. The current cycle looks something like this: people complain about a camp, the cops mulch the encampment, and people move on to a new place. None of the root causes are ever addressed. Will a study like this make city administrators do something concrete about why homelessness happens?
posted by thebigdeadwaltz at 1:14 PM on April 18, 2021 [24 favorites]
Near me, a homeless encampment that had almost completely taken over a beloved neighborhood park was cleared a few weeks ago. The city is putting up dozens of these Pallet shelters in a previously empty lot a few blocks away, which actually seems like quite a good alternative.
posted by kickingtheground at 1:23 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by kickingtheground at 1:23 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
The city is putting up dozens of these Pallet shelters in a previously empty lot a few blocks away, which actually seems like quite a good alternative
Or, the city could build affordable, livable, housing.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 1:30 PM on April 18, 2021 [32 favorites]
Or, the city could build affordable, livable, housing.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 1:30 PM on April 18, 2021 [32 favorites]
No, it won't.
We know how to fix it. In study after study and trial after trial, it comes out that the most effective and cheapest way to solve homelessness is give people a place to live without means testing or requirements or paperwork. Offer services like drug and alcohol counseling and whatnot, but let them be services they can access, not hard requirements. Also it needs to be around where they already live homelessly because they don't want to go live in a dorm in the sticks where they don't k ow anyone or know their way around.
It's easier. It's intuitive. It's simple. It is cheaper because you don't need to spin up a whole bureaucracy of case workers and patrol officers and counselors to force them to check in or jump through the hoops (and letting people live indoors solves a lot of medical issues).
We just don't want to.
You can pick your reason why:
Capitalism requires an underclass
Capitalism requires the threat of suffering and death if you don't work
It undermines the "They're just lazy" narrative
It undermines the "this is a complicated problem with a complicated solution" narrative
It doesn't serve the "these unpersons are fundamentally broken addicts that can't get their acts together so they should suffer!"
It undermines the "social services are just too expensive and require huge bureaucracies" narrative
And so on.
But research wise the problem is basically solved.
We just don't want to.
It's like the endless experiments and trials with a universal basic income: giving people money without strings attached is basically good and most of them spend it in ways to improve or enhance their lives and it puts more value into the economy than it costs because poor people spend money rather than sitting on it.
We just don't want to do it because it undermines so many of our society's principles.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 1:31 PM on April 18, 2021 [192 favorites]
We know how to fix it. In study after study and trial after trial, it comes out that the most effective and cheapest way to solve homelessness is give people a place to live without means testing or requirements or paperwork. Offer services like drug and alcohol counseling and whatnot, but let them be services they can access, not hard requirements. Also it needs to be around where they already live homelessly because they don't want to go live in a dorm in the sticks where they don't k ow anyone or know their way around.
It's easier. It's intuitive. It's simple. It is cheaper because you don't need to spin up a whole bureaucracy of case workers and patrol officers and counselors to force them to check in or jump through the hoops (and letting people live indoors solves a lot of medical issues).
We just don't want to.
You can pick your reason why:
Capitalism requires an underclass
Capitalism requires the threat of suffering and death if you don't work
It undermines the "They're just lazy" narrative
It undermines the "this is a complicated problem with a complicated solution" narrative
It doesn't serve the "these unpersons are fundamentally broken addicts that can't get their acts together so they should suffer!"
It undermines the "social services are just too expensive and require huge bureaucracies" narrative
And so on.
But research wise the problem is basically solved.
We just don't want to.
It's like the endless experiments and trials with a universal basic income: giving people money without strings attached is basically good and most of them spend it in ways to improve or enhance their lives and it puts more value into the economy than it costs because poor people spend money rather than sitting on it.
We just don't want to do it because it undermines so many of our society's principles.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 1:31 PM on April 18, 2021 [192 favorites]
It's almost as if they could have asked somebody, "Does getting forcibly kicked out out where you're at and having all your possessions/documentation/stuff destroyed on a regular basis make it easier or harder for you?"
How can you help anybody if you can't find them on a regular basis, because the cops are spending a kajillion dollars harassing the same people over and over and over and over again? More than half the arrests in Portland in 2019 were the same <1% of the population. That is not value for money, at all.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:32 PM on April 18, 2021 [26 favorites]
How can you help anybody if you can't find them on a regular basis, because the cops are spending a kajillion dollars harassing the same people over and over and over and over again? More than half the arrests in Portland in 2019 were the same <1% of the population. That is not value for money, at all.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:32 PM on April 18, 2021 [26 favorites]
I am just floored that there had to be a study done to find this out....Isn't this, just kinda obvious?
I don't think this is how the game is played in public policy. There comes a point where, to be taken seriously, you need to have something other than just claiming, well, everyone knows this. That point comes very early.
posted by thelonius at 1:36 PM on April 18, 2021 [17 favorites]
I don't think this is how the game is played in public policy. There comes a point where, to be taken seriously, you need to have something other than just claiming, well, everyone knows this. That point comes very early.
posted by thelonius at 1:36 PM on April 18, 2021 [17 favorites]
I don't think this is how the game is played in public policy. There comes a point where, to be taken seriously, you need to have something other than just claiming, well, everyone knows this. That point comes very early.
Kinda depends what you want to be taken seriously about. When it come to wasting a fortune on sports stadia, for example, the point local governments stop taking seriously those who say "everyone knows it will help the economy" has yet to come.
posted by howfar at 1:57 PM on April 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
Kinda depends what you want to be taken seriously about. When it come to wasting a fortune on sports stadia, for example, the point local governments stop taking seriously those who say "everyone knows it will help the economy" has yet to come.
posted by howfar at 1:57 PM on April 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
Well, here, you're, I suppose, trying to get cities to stop doing this, and there are going to be people who want them to carry on, and they are also going to say it is simply obvious that clearing encampments achieves the results that they want.
posted by thelonius at 2:08 PM on April 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 2:08 PM on April 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
kickingtheground - thank you for the link to the Pallet shelters website. What an awesome concept! Every city should be using these.
Ghostride The Whip - I wish I could favorite your comment a 1000 more times.
posted by pjsky at 2:15 PM on April 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
Ghostride The Whip - I wish I could favorite your comment a 1000 more times.
posted by pjsky at 2:15 PM on April 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
In Vancouver, the government has been buying motels/ hotels and putting people up - the problem is that there are subpopulations of the underhoused who are unsocial and immediately destroy whatever housing is provided to them, not to mention, pose a source of violence against to other sheltered persons and the community at large.
It's a difficult problem with many different roots and the situation is compounded by "activists," some of whom are transplants, who muddy the waters and end up protecting some of the most egregious offenders.
The horror stories coming out of the tent cities, assault and sexual assault not being reported and when they are or are so obvious, community members actively prevent police intervention.
There have always been homeless, and in this community many really are from parts of the country with untenable winters. However, property crime and aggressive and violent outbursts have spiked post-Olympics and even moreso during covid.
Drugs are certainly a major contributor but are themselves a symptom.
posted by porpoise at 2:41 PM on April 18, 2021 [12 favorites]
It's a difficult problem with many different roots and the situation is compounded by "activists," some of whom are transplants, who muddy the waters and end up protecting some of the most egregious offenders.
The horror stories coming out of the tent cities, assault and sexual assault not being reported and when they are or are so obvious, community members actively prevent police intervention.
There have always been homeless, and in this community many really are from parts of the country with untenable winters. However, property crime and aggressive and violent outbursts have spiked post-Olympics and even moreso during covid.
Drugs are certainly a major contributor but are themselves a symptom.
posted by porpoise at 2:41 PM on April 18, 2021 [12 favorites]
Why is activists in scare quotes?
What percentage of the unhoused "immediately destroy whatever housing is provided to them"?
posted by Ahmad Khani at 2:49 PM on April 18, 2021 [8 favorites]
What percentage of the unhoused "immediately destroy whatever housing is provided to them"?
posted by Ahmad Khani at 2:49 PM on April 18, 2021 [8 favorites]
You can pick your reason why:
Because no one wants to be first.
My area, rightly or wrongly, has a reputation for being "homeless friendly".
We have people who are willing to spend their last dime to get here because they think it is better to live on the street here than wherever it is they came from.
And that's without the allure of safe, free housing.
This is a national problem that somehow local municipalities are expected to solve.
posted by madajb at 2:52 PM on April 18, 2021 [10 favorites]
Because no one wants to be first.
My area, rightly or wrongly, has a reputation for being "homeless friendly".
We have people who are willing to spend their last dime to get here because they think it is better to live on the street here than wherever it is they came from.
And that's without the allure of safe, free housing.
This is a national problem that somehow local municipalities are expected to solve.
posted by madajb at 2:52 PM on April 18, 2021 [10 favorites]
Solve the problem?! Are you a bunch of communists or something? We don't want to solve the problem, we want to wring the maximum amount of suffering from these folks, because it makes the bullies errr nice middle class folk, feel better about their lives, and someone that the cops can beat up on, to keep in fighting trim for the next round of police riots errr antifa riots, yes, that.
posted by evilDoug at 2:55 PM on April 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 2:55 PM on April 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
Why is activists in scare quotes?
They have a local appellation as "poverty pimps" - fundraising ostensibly to help support the homeless but a lot of it goes to overhead rather than to the community. Some also cosplay being homeless themselves but aren't.
What percentage of the unhoused "immediately destroy whatever housing is provided to them"?
Enough.
posted by porpoise at 3:11 PM on April 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
They have a local appellation as "poverty pimps" - fundraising ostensibly to help support the homeless but a lot of it goes to overhead rather than to the community. Some also cosplay being homeless themselves but aren't.
What percentage of the unhoused "immediately destroy whatever housing is provided to them"?
Enough.
posted by porpoise at 3:11 PM on April 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
We have people who are willing to spend their last dime to get here because they think it is better to live on the street here than wherever it is they came from.
And that's without the allure of safe, free housing.
This is just the immigration debate made hyper local. Enable the people coming to be productive instead of spending millions shuffling them back and forth down the road and the community will be stronger. Pay for it with property taxes on second homes.
posted by Mitheral at 3:28 PM on April 18, 2021 [7 favorites]
And that's without the allure of safe, free housing.
This is just the immigration debate made hyper local. Enable the people coming to be productive instead of spending millions shuffling them back and forth down the road and the community will be stronger. Pay for it with property taxes on second homes.
posted by Mitheral at 3:28 PM on April 18, 2021 [7 favorites]
In Vancouver, the government has been buying motels/ hotels and putting people up - the problem is that there are subpopulations of the underhoused who are unsocial and immediately destroy whatever housing is provided to them, not to mention, pose a source of violence against to other sheltered persons and the community at large.
That's been my life for the last year or so, I work at a hotel that's providing housing for those who need it and it's been incredibly difficult. The ideal of providing housing is the right one to pursue, but what makes it hard is that so many of the problems aren't solved by housing and require constant ongoing attention. Using the hotels as housing, for example, has shifted the burden of dealing with a host of issues to the staff of the hotel, who are neither qualified or equipped to deal with them and make near minimum wage.
It's easy to say provide housing, but that housing is going to be somewhere and that somewhere is going to be affected by a variety of problems no one wants to have to deal with everyday. In the last year we've had overdoses, deaths, assaults on staff and other clients, child abuse, sexual abuse and trafficking, hard drug dealing and the associated traffic that goes along with that, near constant police and EMT presence, mostly summoned by the clients themselves to address problems between each other, major damage to the property and a constant array of trash, including used needles, heroin, and other dangerous drug paraphernalia, and sometimes literal shit strewn about the property.
There is no "quiet" time at the hotel, there is noise and activity 24 hours a day, much of it loud and, for lack of better word, unusual. While concern for social justice is understandably what people here are looking at, many of the clients do not share that interest. Racism, homophobia, verbal and other abuse of all sorts are not uncommon issues, mask wearing is minimal, even after repeated requests for it, and, as almost an aside, the support for Trump and his ideology is quite high.
The entire staff is burned out, but we don't have many options for dealing with it. It isn't that all the clients are dangerous or "bad", many are victims of abuse where they turn to the staff for counseling or to just tell their often horrible stories, which we then also have to live with as another element of our work life. Many still live with their abusers, some actively violating the restraining orders they themselves applied for to sneak in those they once feared, putting themselves and the staff at risk and frequently asking us to later police things when the relationship goes bad again.
CPS has come many times for a number of things that they were required to address, while many other behaviors with kids are deeply troubling that we have to witness without intervention. All of this just shifts the burden of dealing with these problems from the larger society to that of another part of the underclass, which is how treating homelessness usually works. It gets shoved to the areas where people have the least resources to deal with the issue because those with more don't want it around where they live and work.
Talking about housing without addressing all the associated problems that can follow is a way to feel like something is solved by "fixing" one part and then shunting it away for others to deal with as the collective conscience is cleared. None of that is to argue against the need for housing and that being the first consideration, but without thinking about all those associated issues, then the problem isn't so much fixed as just resituated.
(Oh, and there are definitely "activists" that deserve the scare quotes, like the group that tried to take over a hotel and threatened the staff with weapons. it might seem like "justice" to demand housing in hotels in that manner from a distance, but only if you're willing to ignore the low wage workers threatened to make that point.)
posted by gusottertrout at 3:34 PM on April 18, 2021 [121 favorites]
That's been my life for the last year or so, I work at a hotel that's providing housing for those who need it and it's been incredibly difficult. The ideal of providing housing is the right one to pursue, but what makes it hard is that so many of the problems aren't solved by housing and require constant ongoing attention. Using the hotels as housing, for example, has shifted the burden of dealing with a host of issues to the staff of the hotel, who are neither qualified or equipped to deal with them and make near minimum wage.
It's easy to say provide housing, but that housing is going to be somewhere and that somewhere is going to be affected by a variety of problems no one wants to have to deal with everyday. In the last year we've had overdoses, deaths, assaults on staff and other clients, child abuse, sexual abuse and trafficking, hard drug dealing and the associated traffic that goes along with that, near constant police and EMT presence, mostly summoned by the clients themselves to address problems between each other, major damage to the property and a constant array of trash, including used needles, heroin, and other dangerous drug paraphernalia, and sometimes literal shit strewn about the property.
There is no "quiet" time at the hotel, there is noise and activity 24 hours a day, much of it loud and, for lack of better word, unusual. While concern for social justice is understandably what people here are looking at, many of the clients do not share that interest. Racism, homophobia, verbal and other abuse of all sorts are not uncommon issues, mask wearing is minimal, even after repeated requests for it, and, as almost an aside, the support for Trump and his ideology is quite high.
The entire staff is burned out, but we don't have many options for dealing with it. It isn't that all the clients are dangerous or "bad", many are victims of abuse where they turn to the staff for counseling or to just tell their often horrible stories, which we then also have to live with as another element of our work life. Many still live with their abusers, some actively violating the restraining orders they themselves applied for to sneak in those they once feared, putting themselves and the staff at risk and frequently asking us to later police things when the relationship goes bad again.
CPS has come many times for a number of things that they were required to address, while many other behaviors with kids are deeply troubling that we have to witness without intervention. All of this just shifts the burden of dealing with these problems from the larger society to that of another part of the underclass, which is how treating homelessness usually works. It gets shoved to the areas where people have the least resources to deal with the issue because those with more don't want it around where they live and work.
Talking about housing without addressing all the associated problems that can follow is a way to feel like something is solved by "fixing" one part and then shunting it away for others to deal with as the collective conscience is cleared. None of that is to argue against the need for housing and that being the first consideration, but without thinking about all those associated issues, then the problem isn't so much fixed as just resituated.
(Oh, and there are definitely "activists" that deserve the scare quotes, like the group that tried to take over a hotel and threatened the staff with weapons. it might seem like "justice" to demand housing in hotels in that manner from a distance, but only if you're willing to ignore the low wage workers threatened to make that point.)
posted by gusottertrout at 3:34 PM on April 18, 2021 [121 favorites]
It's a difficult problem with many different roots
Nope. Homelessness really isn't that "difficult". It can be almost entirely eliminated by ensuring sufficient housing stock to ensure that everyone can afford to access decent housing.
The problems that homeless people have, other than not having somewhere to live, are as complex as the problems affecting everyone else, but not a single one of those problems is made easier to solve or manage by not providing them with somewhere decent and safe to live. Yes, a small proportion of those people will damage their homes, but...so what? Short of imprisoning or executing people, what else are you actually proposing? That we just let people suffer and our societal problems deepen because "it's complex". The causal relationship between housing costs and homelessness is clear. So let's do the simple thing now and sort out the complexity later, ok?
They have a local appellation as "poverty pimps" - fundraising ostensibly to help support the homeless but a lot of it goes to overhead rather than to the community.
Without some actual facts, numbers, or evidence, this is indistinguishable for every right-wing claim about "do-gooders" and "activists" ever made. "Overhead rather than to the community" is a meaningless claim in itself. Lots of organisations with allegedly high "overhead" costs turn out to be those doing the sort of absolutely vital support and advocacy work that people would literally die without.
Some also cosplay being homeless themselves but aren't.
What does "cosplaying" being homeless involve? How do you cosplay not having a home. By going outside?
Enough.
Enough for what? And what does your link to a piece about exploitative landlords tell us about it?
posted by howfar at 3:35 PM on April 18, 2021 [20 favorites]
Nope. Homelessness really isn't that "difficult". It can be almost entirely eliminated by ensuring sufficient housing stock to ensure that everyone can afford to access decent housing.
The problems that homeless people have, other than not having somewhere to live, are as complex as the problems affecting everyone else, but not a single one of those problems is made easier to solve or manage by not providing them with somewhere decent and safe to live. Yes, a small proportion of those people will damage their homes, but...so what? Short of imprisoning or executing people, what else are you actually proposing? That we just let people suffer and our societal problems deepen because "it's complex". The causal relationship between housing costs and homelessness is clear. So let's do the simple thing now and sort out the complexity later, ok?
They have a local appellation as "poverty pimps" - fundraising ostensibly to help support the homeless but a lot of it goes to overhead rather than to the community.
Without some actual facts, numbers, or evidence, this is indistinguishable for every right-wing claim about "do-gooders" and "activists" ever made. "Overhead rather than to the community" is a meaningless claim in itself. Lots of organisations with allegedly high "overhead" costs turn out to be those doing the sort of absolutely vital support and advocacy work that people would literally die without.
Some also cosplay being homeless themselves but aren't.
What does "cosplaying" being homeless involve? How do you cosplay not having a home. By going outside?
Enough.
Enough for what? And what does your link to a piece about exploitative landlords tell us about it?
posted by howfar at 3:35 PM on April 18, 2021 [20 favorites]
Could I gently request that when people post a link to a site that requires sign-in, they provide credentials, so that people don't have to sign up themselves? It takes time and often incurs spam.
In this case, I found an existing login I could use at bugmenot.com. Username: bloomies@mailinator.com password getrekt2
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 3:39 PM on April 18, 2021 [11 favorites]
In this case, I found an existing login I could use at bugmenot.com. Username: bloomies@mailinator.com password getrekt2
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 3:39 PM on April 18, 2021 [11 favorites]
Certainly in America the woefully inadequate services for people with addiction and/or mental health issues complicates the problem of housing people. There has to be different housing arrangements for the various types of people who need places to stay. There is no one-size-fits-all solution. But the fact that there isn't a simple solution is no excuse for cities to ignore these problems. Unfortunately Reagan + GOP did a really great job of convincing half of America that the government can't actually fix problems, only create them.
posted by pjsky at 4:16 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by pjsky at 4:16 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
Is there a country that has a housing first program that we’d do well to do emulate?
posted by Selena777 at 4:18 PM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Selena777 at 4:18 PM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
The horror stories coming out of the tent cities, assault and sexual assault not being reported and when they are or are so obvious, community members actively prevent police intervention.
So those homeless folks are just like the middle and especially upper class then
Huh
Why do we allow anyone to have homes?!
posted by armoir from antproof case at 4:22 PM on April 18, 2021 [16 favorites]
So those homeless folks are just like the middle and especially upper class then
Huh
Why do we allow anyone to have homes?!
posted by armoir from antproof case at 4:22 PM on April 18, 2021 [16 favorites]
Sarcasm aside, what we as a society rail against the homeless for, is hypocrisy writ large and ignored by many, lest anyone’s inflated self-worth not get the most out of the glory of scapegoating
(Not directed at porpoise)
posted by armoir from antproof case at 4:24 PM on April 18, 2021 [5 favorites]
(Not directed at porpoise)
posted by armoir from antproof case at 4:24 PM on April 18, 2021 [5 favorites]
>CityGate Network, the nation’s largest shelter provider, which operates more than 300 faith-based missions across the country, prioritizes sobriety, employment and spiritual salvation. CityGate opposes Housing First, arguing that this system makes homelessness worse. So did the Trump administration.
The positive research on Housing First speaks for itself, but the enemies of Housing First are a heck of a secondary argument
posted by Skwirl at 5:13 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
The positive research on Housing First speaks for itself, but the enemies of Housing First are a heck of a secondary argument
posted by Skwirl at 5:13 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
Mod note: Few comments removed - please don't bring other people's hateful comments over here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:39 PM on April 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:39 PM on April 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
My hope is that the solution is safe, no strings attached housing for everyone living in encampments. My fear is that even that would not solve the problem.
My brother has lives on the streets for over a decade. He is bipolar, often delusional, and a drug addict. He has tried a number of different housing options, but has never stayed longer that a week or two. He will continue living on the streets until he gets treatment, and he does not want treatment.
Is there any good data on what percentage of the people who live in encampments are like my brother? If it’s a substantial percentage, then providing housing will not solve the problem.
The question then becomes how do you help people struggling with mental illness and/ drug abuse who are unwilling or unable to seek treatment. Do any of the proposed solutions to the encampment problem address that?
posted by lumpy at 5:53 PM on April 18, 2021 [17 favorites]
My brother has lives on the streets for over a decade. He is bipolar, often delusional, and a drug addict. He has tried a number of different housing options, but has never stayed longer that a week or two. He will continue living on the streets until he gets treatment, and he does not want treatment.
Is there any good data on what percentage of the people who live in encampments are like my brother? If it’s a substantial percentage, then providing housing will not solve the problem.
The question then becomes how do you help people struggling with mental illness and/ drug abuse who are unwilling or unable to seek treatment. Do any of the proposed solutions to the encampment problem address that?
posted by lumpy at 5:53 PM on April 18, 2021 [17 favorites]
In my town, Community Supported Shelters is building Conestoga Huts for the homeless population. It's a great program, supported by private donations and individuals.
Every year the city goes through a ritual of hand-wringing about building a $30 million homeless services center and shelter, which will never happen because....that's pretty obvious.
Community Supported Shelters takes a scrap of land and puts up low-cost sturdy shelters that gets people off the street and into a safe place they can recover their lives.
Even with this program here's plenty of homeless people stranded by the pandemic living in fields and parks, yet this organization is pointing the way to an effective, relatively cost solution for homelessness.
posted by diode at 5:56 PM on April 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
Every year the city goes through a ritual of hand-wringing about building a $30 million homeless services center and shelter, which will never happen because....that's pretty obvious.
Community Supported Shelters takes a scrap of land and puts up low-cost sturdy shelters that gets people off the street and into a safe place they can recover their lives.
Even with this program here's plenty of homeless people stranded by the pandemic living in fields and parks, yet this organization is pointing the way to an effective, relatively cost solution for homelessness.
posted by diode at 5:56 PM on April 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
Last time I read a HUD report written by a not completely evil administration, it broke down to something close to:
1/3 people fleeing bad circumstances but otherwise capable of cycling back into society in 6 months. These include teenagers and abused spouses. It's important to make sure they don't fall farther in the process of getting their lives back together.
1/3 people who are victims of systemic poverty, they may have problems and education issues but could hold down a basic job.
1/3 chronic substance abuse and mental illness. This is the crowd who will destroy almost any environment and who pose the most danger to the other homeless.
Housing the last 1/3 with the first 2/3 is actively harmful and complicates matters a lot. This last 1/3 includes a lot of people who would be institutionalized pre-Reagan. I know there were a lot of horrors from that time but we have to figure out how to house people who are actively destructive without it being prison, or foisting their problems on poor hotel staff.
posted by benzenedream at 6:32 PM on April 18, 2021 [58 favorites]
1/3 people fleeing bad circumstances but otherwise capable of cycling back into society in 6 months. These include teenagers and abused spouses. It's important to make sure they don't fall farther in the process of getting their lives back together.
1/3 people who are victims of systemic poverty, they may have problems and education issues but could hold down a basic job.
1/3 chronic substance abuse and mental illness. This is the crowd who will destroy almost any environment and who pose the most danger to the other homeless.
Housing the last 1/3 with the first 2/3 is actively harmful and complicates matters a lot. This last 1/3 includes a lot of people who would be institutionalized pre-Reagan. I know there were a lot of horrors from that time but we have to figure out how to house people who are actively destructive without it being prison, or foisting their problems on poor hotel staff.
posted by benzenedream at 6:32 PM on April 18, 2021 [58 favorites]
benzenedream, the HUD report is missing something: housing costs. In the SF Bay Area there is basically no place you can afford to live even if you have a well-above minimum-wage job. Housing prices are insane. One big political issue here is people living in RVs because they just can't afford rent. One moment of unemployment and missed rent payment, and now you are homeless.
I can't help but think the real long-term solution is to prevent the enormous income inequality in this country along with treating housing as a human right rather than as an exploitable investment. This would require changes in the political culture and the tax code, maybe back to what we had in the 50s and 60s when it would have been very difficult to have these insanely rich and relatively untaxed people and companies.
Capitalism should be seen as a sometimes useful tool instead of some kind of religion or cult. There are Democratic societies where there is capitalism but people don't worship it to the extent that they give up their sense of responsibility to the society. See Taiwan, South Korea, which have much more income equality (and, by the way, have done really well during the Covid crisis). Even in these countries they are having issues with housing costs, but at least they recognize the issue and are looking at how to best resolve it.
posted by eye of newt at 7:10 PM on April 18, 2021 [15 favorites]
I can't help but think the real long-term solution is to prevent the enormous income inequality in this country along with treating housing as a human right rather than as an exploitable investment. This would require changes in the political culture and the tax code, maybe back to what we had in the 50s and 60s when it would have been very difficult to have these insanely rich and relatively untaxed people and companies.
Capitalism should be seen as a sometimes useful tool instead of some kind of religion or cult. There are Democratic societies where there is capitalism but people don't worship it to the extent that they give up their sense of responsibility to the society. See Taiwan, South Korea, which have much more income equality (and, by the way, have done really well during the Covid crisis). Even in these countries they are having issues with housing costs, but at least they recognize the issue and are looking at how to best resolve it.
posted by eye of newt at 7:10 PM on April 18, 2021 [15 favorites]
It's a difficult problem with many different roots
Nope. Homelessness really isn't that "difficult".
Uh, what? People have all kinds of reasons for being homeless. It isn't as simple as just putting them in boxes.
My ex worked in a government-run apartment building for the hard-to-house, where you have the inflexibility of government rules (some of which are necessary for worker or resident protection, some of which are arbitrary) against the diversity of individual needs and habits. Many residents are unable to maintain personal hygiene or to cook for themselves without burning down the building. Many are actively being exploited by members of their close communities. Many are dealing with addiction issues. Many have children and are fleeing abuse. Many are suffering from PTSD. Many are working poor and just need a place to sleep.
Put all these people together (which is what happens when you think homelessness is simply about providing people with shelter) and you get more homelessness because people simply can't endure it. It's hard to live with people who are troubled.
So, what I, gusottertrout and porpoise are saying may not constitute "data," but these are real things that happen in the real world and they serve contradict the notion that this is "easy."
posted by klanawa at 7:19 PM on April 18, 2021 [53 favorites]
Nope. Homelessness really isn't that "difficult".
Uh, what? People have all kinds of reasons for being homeless. It isn't as simple as just putting them in boxes.
My ex worked in a government-run apartment building for the hard-to-house, where you have the inflexibility of government rules (some of which are necessary for worker or resident protection, some of which are arbitrary) against the diversity of individual needs and habits. Many residents are unable to maintain personal hygiene or to cook for themselves without burning down the building. Many are actively being exploited by members of their close communities. Many are dealing with addiction issues. Many have children and are fleeing abuse. Many are suffering from PTSD. Many are working poor and just need a place to sleep.
Put all these people together (which is what happens when you think homelessness is simply about providing people with shelter) and you get more homelessness because people simply can't endure it. It's hard to live with people who are troubled.
So, what I, gusottertrout and porpoise are saying may not constitute "data," but these are real things that happen in the real world and they serve contradict the notion that this is "easy."
posted by klanawa at 7:19 PM on April 18, 2021 [53 favorites]
It is cheaper because you don't need to spin up a whole bureaucracy of case workers and patrol officers and counselors to force them to check in or jump through the hoops
Realistically, for a considerable minority of this population, you really are going to need those case workers and counselors and other support services. Saying "oh, services shouldn't be mandatory" doesn't really address the problem of people who are genuinely incapable of caring for themselves, or incapable of doing so when off their meds. Consider this investigative report about mentally-ill people who weren't even homeless when they began living independently. These are people who would be better served in some form of institution, if only ("only") we could figure out a way to make institutions not hotbeds of neglect, abuse, and coercion. It doesn't take very many such people, or even very long, for situations to become dangerous and unlivable for all involved. We really cannot kid ourselves about the need to invest in intensive and expensive wraparound services for everyone coming off the streets. Reallocation from the police budget sounds fine to me.
posted by praemunire at 7:20 PM on April 18, 2021 [11 favorites]
Realistically, for a considerable minority of this population, you really are going to need those case workers and counselors and other support services. Saying "oh, services shouldn't be mandatory" doesn't really address the problem of people who are genuinely incapable of caring for themselves, or incapable of doing so when off their meds. Consider this investigative report about mentally-ill people who weren't even homeless when they began living independently. These are people who would be better served in some form of institution, if only ("only") we could figure out a way to make institutions not hotbeds of neglect, abuse, and coercion. It doesn't take very many such people, or even very long, for situations to become dangerous and unlivable for all involved. We really cannot kid ourselves about the need to invest in intensive and expensive wraparound services for everyone coming off the streets. Reallocation from the police budget sounds fine to me.
posted by praemunire at 7:20 PM on April 18, 2021 [11 favorites]
It's hard to live with people who are troubled.
People don't refuse to go into a shelter just because they're independent-minded and like the fresh air, after all. Shelters can be very difficult and dangerous places to live.
posted by praemunire at 7:21 PM on April 18, 2021 [24 favorites]
People don't refuse to go into a shelter just because they're independent-minded and like the fresh air, after all. Shelters can be very difficult and dangerous places to live.
posted by praemunire at 7:21 PM on April 18, 2021 [24 favorites]
It's hard to live with people who are troubled
This is totally anecdotal, coming from someone I know who works in government, but in the city I'm in, roughly 30-40 years ago the policy was to build huge social housing "blocks" - roughly 40,000 units worth - where anyone at risk of homelessness could for residency, rent and utilities were capped at 25% of their total income.
It turned out to be a horrible idea, because those tall apartment blocks became a nexus for drug trafficking and other criminal issues / gangs. To the point that recovering addicts actually preferred to live on the street, rather than live in the same building with dozens of drug dealers who would tempt them every day. They also wanted to get out of the gangs.
Apparently the new policy is to "tax" each new development a certain percentage of their units - say a developer applies to build a 50 unit apartment block - that 2-3 units must be reserved for social housing. This distributes the issues evenly through the population and prevents a concentration of drug traffickers / gang activity.
It by far benefits the 2/3 of people who are homeless just due to financial or family issues, as they get to live in a "normal" apartment block and allows them to socialize with people there, and it prevents the 1/3 of people with substance abuse / psychological issues from harming the 2/3 who are the most vulnerable. Instead, fine, you may get one single person with substance abuse / psychological issues in a regular block of 50 apartment units who ends up disturbing the peace repeatedly, but those people there have the resources to deal with it.
posted by xdvesper at 7:29 PM on April 18, 2021 [18 favorites]
This is totally anecdotal, coming from someone I know who works in government, but in the city I'm in, roughly 30-40 years ago the policy was to build huge social housing "blocks" - roughly 40,000 units worth - where anyone at risk of homelessness could for residency, rent and utilities were capped at 25% of their total income.
It turned out to be a horrible idea, because those tall apartment blocks became a nexus for drug trafficking and other criminal issues / gangs. To the point that recovering addicts actually preferred to live on the street, rather than live in the same building with dozens of drug dealers who would tempt them every day. They also wanted to get out of the gangs.
Apparently the new policy is to "tax" each new development a certain percentage of their units - say a developer applies to build a 50 unit apartment block - that 2-3 units must be reserved for social housing. This distributes the issues evenly through the population and prevents a concentration of drug traffickers / gang activity.
It by far benefits the 2/3 of people who are homeless just due to financial or family issues, as they get to live in a "normal" apartment block and allows them to socialize with people there, and it prevents the 1/3 of people with substance abuse / psychological issues from harming the 2/3 who are the most vulnerable. Instead, fine, you may get one single person with substance abuse / psychological issues in a regular block of 50 apartment units who ends up disturbing the peace repeatedly, but those people there have the resources to deal with it.
posted by xdvesper at 7:29 PM on April 18, 2021 [18 favorites]
This is why the expression is, "it takes a village" and not, "it takes a house"
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:41 PM on April 18, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:41 PM on April 18, 2021 [8 favorites]
I wish, for once, we could admit here that homelessness is NOT a problem we know how to fix, and that it IS difficult. That people making such brave and ludicrous assertions to the contrary get so many likes by people who actually want to fix it gives little hope that it will ever transition to anything close to a simple problem that's easy to resolve. It's not easy or simple or intuitive.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:48 PM on April 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 8:48 PM on April 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
We could fix it for a lot of people with what we already know. It doesn't have to be this bad.
posted by aniola at 8:52 PM on April 18, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by aniola at 8:52 PM on April 18, 2021 [7 favorites]
I wish, for once, we could admit here that homelessness is NOT a problem we know how to fix, and that it IS difficult.
For people for whom homelessness is primarily an economic phenomenon, with only at worst mild/non-disabling mental illness or substance abuse problems, "housing first" with a modest array of supportive services helping people reconnect to work and social supports works quite well. It's the minority of seriously ill people who are quite challenging to help, especially after years of trauma from street living. I don't know that we've ever had a good solution to the needs of these people, though the current approach (dump them on the street and cycle them through jail) may be one of the worst.
posted by praemunire at 9:15 PM on April 18, 2021 [27 favorites]
For people for whom homelessness is primarily an economic phenomenon, with only at worst mild/non-disabling mental illness or substance abuse problems, "housing first" with a modest array of supportive services helping people reconnect to work and social supports works quite well. It's the minority of seriously ill people who are quite challenging to help, especially after years of trauma from street living. I don't know that we've ever had a good solution to the needs of these people, though the current approach (dump them on the street and cycle them through jail) may be one of the worst.
posted by praemunire at 9:15 PM on April 18, 2021 [27 favorites]
I don't know what the answer is to this issue, especially for those who will always really struggle with sheltered living of any sort. But it has to be better than what Vancouver does. They are acting now, but only after providing such terrible sanitary services for the Downtown Eastside that there was an outbreak of dysentery which raged for weeks. In the middle of a pandemic.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:29 PM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:29 PM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
One thing I know is it's better to apply what imperfect but humane solutions we have (and we are doing very, very little of this) than to feign helplessness, which is by implication a form of eliminationism.
posted by klanawa at 9:30 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by klanawa at 9:30 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
Homelessness is a solved problem, but we want moral solutions to practical problems. And in seeking the former (which hinges on a completely bogus concept of the 'deserving poor') we end up wasting millions of dollars on initiatives that do literally nothing. Malcolm Gladwell sums it up brilliantly in his piece Million Dollar Murray.
posted by tim_in_oz at 9:43 PM on April 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by tim_in_oz at 9:43 PM on April 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
i find there are two kinds of political conversations that people who disagree but are trying to talk in good faith often still end up getting nowhere on: homelessness and middle east peace.
having lived next door to various encampments over the last 20 years in los angeles, my two cents is that the misunderstanding stems from imprecise terms. there are homeless people who are indeed very accepting of "housing first" types of solutions. these tend to be people who lose housing because they lose a job or have a medical bankruptcy. then there are people who have deep underlying problems like mental health, addiction, or involvement with violent crime (including those preyed upon by gangs) or who are recently released from incarceration. for them, housing first often ends up in just another eviction when dangerous things happen in the units where they are housed.
and then there are those for whom living in encampments is almost a political issue, and they assert they have a right to refuse housing and live in parks if they wish to. this last group is the kind certain activists attach to, as we recently had in the echo park lake clearing debacle in LA.
and on top of all that, housing all three of these groups, even when they agree to accept it, has to overcome NIMBYs who file lawsuits and take advantage of blue state environmental review to tie up solutions for years, even when there is ample funding.
at least in big american cities where the homeless population is in the thousands or tens of thousands, we are way past the days when we could say "funding" and "housing first" and have that be the go-to answer. it's far, far more complicated than that, and no single solution will apply to the various different populations, with different needs, that are involved.
posted by wibari at 9:55 PM on April 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
having lived next door to various encampments over the last 20 years in los angeles, my two cents is that the misunderstanding stems from imprecise terms. there are homeless people who are indeed very accepting of "housing first" types of solutions. these tend to be people who lose housing because they lose a job or have a medical bankruptcy. then there are people who have deep underlying problems like mental health, addiction, or involvement with violent crime (including those preyed upon by gangs) or who are recently released from incarceration. for them, housing first often ends up in just another eviction when dangerous things happen in the units where they are housed.
and then there are those for whom living in encampments is almost a political issue, and they assert they have a right to refuse housing and live in parks if they wish to. this last group is the kind certain activists attach to, as we recently had in the echo park lake clearing debacle in LA.
and on top of all that, housing all three of these groups, even when they agree to accept it, has to overcome NIMBYs who file lawsuits and take advantage of blue state environmental review to tie up solutions for years, even when there is ample funding.
at least in big american cities where the homeless population is in the thousands or tens of thousands, we are way past the days when we could say "funding" and "housing first" and have that be the go-to answer. it's far, far more complicated than that, and no single solution will apply to the various different populations, with different needs, that are involved.
posted by wibari at 9:55 PM on April 18, 2021 [14 favorites]
Homelessness is a solved problem, but we want moral solutions to practical problems. And in seeking the former (which hinges on a completely bogus concept of the 'deserving poor') we end up wasting millions of dollars on initiatives that do literally nothing. Malcolm Gladwell sums it up brilliantly in his piece Million Dollar Murray.
Wow. It’s great to hear that Malcolm Gladwell solved homelessness in 2006. Don’t have to worry about that anymore!
posted by mr_roboto at 10:14 PM on April 18, 2021 [5 favorites]
Wow. It’s great to hear that Malcolm Gladwell solved homelessness in 2006. Don’t have to worry about that anymore!
posted by mr_roboto at 10:14 PM on April 18, 2021 [5 favorites]
Y'know, I've thought for a while now that sarcasm should be spelled sarchasm because of its ability to create chasms rather than bridges in relationships.
posted by aniola at 11:39 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by aniola at 11:39 PM on April 18, 2021 [6 favorites]
Apparently the new policy is to "tax" each new development a certain percentage of their units - say a developer applies to build a 50 unit apartment block - that 2-3 units must be reserved for social housing.
This has been the policy in the UK for a while now, and it brings its own problems with it.
Blocks have been built on apartheid models, i.e. front entrance for private owners, back entrance for social housing; I've even heard of a case where a children's playground was effectively walled off so that the social housing had no access to it.
Also, since the crash of 2008 priced regular people out of home ownership, the vast majority of units on new estates are bought to let by private landlords; if the social housing turns into a drug den, they couldn't care less, because they don't have to live next door to it.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:02 AM on April 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
This has been the policy in the UK for a while now, and it brings its own problems with it.
Blocks have been built on apartheid models, i.e. front entrance for private owners, back entrance for social housing; I've even heard of a case where a children's playground was effectively walled off so that the social housing had no access to it.
Also, since the crash of 2008 priced regular people out of home ownership, the vast majority of units on new estates are bought to let by private landlords; if the social housing turns into a drug den, they couldn't care less, because they don't have to live next door to it.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:02 AM on April 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
Listen up theorists telling me how complicated it all is. I've spent a decade of my life working for homeless and vulnerably housed people. And yes, many of those people have complex needs that will not be solved by building enough decent housing. And a very small minority of them would be unable to sustain even very good and very supportive housing. But for the overwhelming majority of the thousands of people I have worked directly with, some for months or years, what would be solved by building more decent and affordable housing is their lack of decent and affordable housing.
And if you know so little about housing and homelessness policy to think that housing first approaches are about shoving people into towerblocks to rot, maybe it's time to listen to some people who actually know something about the subject.
posted by howfar at 12:11 AM on April 19, 2021 [24 favorites]
And if you know so little about housing and homelessness policy to think that housing first approaches are about shoving people into towerblocks to rot, maybe it's time to listen to some people who actually know something about the subject.
posted by howfar at 12:11 AM on April 19, 2021 [24 favorites]
if the social housing turns into a drug den, they couldn't care less, because they don't have to live next door to it.
Because that's what poor people do, right? Deal drugs?
posted by howfar at 12:20 AM on April 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
Because that's what poor people do, right? Deal drugs?
posted by howfar at 12:20 AM on April 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
So I'm old enough to remember when homelessness became a problem. In the late 70's there was a switch thrown and suddenly homeless people were everywhere. Extrapolating from my experience in Los Angeles I believe that the problem has gotten worse since then. Ronald Reagan's policies caused the initial problem and we should be able to undo whatever evil shit he did. That probably won't solve homelessness since we've accumulated other social ills in the last decades that factor into homelessness. Anyone who tries to convince you that homelessness is an unsolvable problem is wrong. What they mean is homelessness will be an expensive problem to solve. Not expensive in comparison to other things we spend money on but expensive as in having to spend money on poor and disadvantaged people. We choose this.
posted by rdr at 1:09 AM on April 19, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by rdr at 1:09 AM on April 19, 2021 [12 favorites]
Interesting approach in which a city hands out gift cards to keep homeless camps clean.
"We could easily have spent $10,000 a month on that program [public works team], just doing regular cleanups. And now, our entire program operating for about a year, we haven’t even spent $10,000."
posted by fairmettle at 1:50 AM on April 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
"We could easily have spent $10,000 a month on that program [public works team], just doing regular cleanups. And now, our entire program operating for about a year, we haven’t even spent $10,000."
posted by fairmettle at 1:50 AM on April 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
...Pallet shelters in a previously empty lot...
Or, the city could build affordable, livable, housing.
That sounds reasonable, but in practice it leads to an "all or nothing" approach. If we can't do "all", we just do "nothing". I've come to know quite a few homeless, over decades, and a "less than all" approach would be very helpful to many if not most of them. It's worth considering a "ramp-like" spectrum of provisions, ranging from, say, a section of wide concrete pipe with locking access and a garden hose, up to a one-bedroom apartment with a garden.
Some homeless have cascading problems, extended sleep deprivation, loss of ID, possessions that must be constantly guarded, all family contact lost, and they are unable to participate in services meant to help them. If they could just get up from the bottom rungs, then they might proceed to climb with some dignity.
It is problematical, I know, if critics can point at concrete pipes, and say: "Look! This is how we treat the poor in our society! Elect me, and I will do away with this shamefulness". But I also know there are homeless that would actually prefer to first be able to get themselves up to basic functionality, so they are able to more fully participate in getting the kind of help they want, otherwise they end up stuck in the pit.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:20 AM on April 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
Or, the city could build affordable, livable, housing.
That sounds reasonable, but in practice it leads to an "all or nothing" approach. If we can't do "all", we just do "nothing". I've come to know quite a few homeless, over decades, and a "less than all" approach would be very helpful to many if not most of them. It's worth considering a "ramp-like" spectrum of provisions, ranging from, say, a section of wide concrete pipe with locking access and a garden hose, up to a one-bedroom apartment with a garden.
Some homeless have cascading problems, extended sleep deprivation, loss of ID, possessions that must be constantly guarded, all family contact lost, and they are unable to participate in services meant to help them. If they could just get up from the bottom rungs, then they might proceed to climb with some dignity.
It is problematical, I know, if critics can point at concrete pipes, and say: "Look! This is how we treat the poor in our society! Elect me, and I will do away with this shamefulness". But I also know there are homeless that would actually prefer to first be able to get themselves up to basic functionality, so they are able to more fully participate in getting the kind of help they want, otherwise they end up stuck in the pit.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:20 AM on April 19, 2021 [5 favorites]
And now, our entire program operating for about a year, we haven’t even spent $10,000."
Hello, journalism? The obvious question next is, what is the city spending the money saved on?
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:30 AM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Hello, journalism? The obvious question next is, what is the city spending the money saved on?
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:30 AM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Listen up theorists telling me how complicated it all is . . . maybe it's time to listen to some people who actually know something about the subject.
sadly i've seen experts that sound just like this flounder for decades in my (big, blue) city to even ameliorate, much less solve, the problem. and that's with billions of dollars allocated and entire tax regimes stood up just for this purpose. so when i say it's complicated, it's not to make myself sound smart, it's to reflect reality.
posted by wibari at 9:03 AM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
sadly i've seen experts that sound just like this flounder for decades in my (big, blue) city to even ameliorate, much less solve, the problem. and that's with billions of dollars allocated and entire tax regimes stood up just for this purpose. so when i say it's complicated, it's not to make myself sound smart, it's to reflect reality.
posted by wibari at 9:03 AM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
In Vancouver, the government has been buying motels/ hotels and putting people up - the problem is that there are subpopulations of the underhoused who are unsocial and immediately destroy whatever housing is provided to them, not to mention, pose a source of violence against to other sheltered persons and the community at large.
a huge part of the problem in British Columbia is the number of people living without housing who suffer serious mental health issues. As a friend who's been dealing with this stuff professionally put it, "You could give them five thousand dollars a month, they'd still end up on the street. They are incapable of properly taking care of themselves as we (society) imagines adults should. And this, of course, muddies everything else up because there are also lots of people who are just down on their luck for whatever reason. My most recent client is a guy who spent his past five years living with and taking care of his aging mom. She died. There was virtually no inheritance for him. He couldn't make the rent of the apartment they'd been sharing, so he lost it. He ended up living out of his van. He's the kind of guy who, with some short term financial help, some professional training, skills upgrading -- it's a pretty good bet he'll be back paying his bills (and his taxes) sooner than later."
posted by philip-random at 9:18 AM on April 19, 2021 [10 favorites]
a huge part of the problem in British Columbia is the number of people living without housing who suffer serious mental health issues. As a friend who's been dealing with this stuff professionally put it, "You could give them five thousand dollars a month, they'd still end up on the street. They are incapable of properly taking care of themselves as we (society) imagines adults should. And this, of course, muddies everything else up because there are also lots of people who are just down on their luck for whatever reason. My most recent client is a guy who spent his past five years living with and taking care of his aging mom. She died. There was virtually no inheritance for him. He couldn't make the rent of the apartment they'd been sharing, so he lost it. He ended up living out of his van. He's the kind of guy who, with some short term financial help, some professional training, skills upgrading -- it's a pretty good bet he'll be back paying his bills (and his taxes) sooner than later."
posted by philip-random at 9:18 AM on April 19, 2021 [10 favorites]
sadly i've seen experts that sound just like this flounder for decades in my (big, blue) city to even ameliorate, much less solve, the problem. and that's with billions of dollars allocated and entire tax regimes stood up just for this purpose. so when i say it's complicated, it's not to make myself sound smart, it's to reflect reality.
Have they used that money to build enough high-quality, easily accessible (for everyone, not just homeless people, poor people or vulnerable people) public housing to reduce the cost of all forms and tenures of housing in the city to an affordable level for everyone? Because if not, they haven't done the simple thing that needs to be done to (almost entirely) end homelessness.
The myth that homelessness is a mysterious, unsolvable problem caused by almost anything and everything except the commodification of housing is progaganda. This myth is aggressively and near-universally promoted, so I don't entirely blame people for swallowing it. We are conditioned to believe that homelessness is fundamentally a consequence of problems afflicting a minority of people, rather than a reflection of the systemic refusal (I won't call it a failure, as this would imply a lack of culpability) of market-driven housing policy to keep housing costs in line with median income, most significantly in urban areas.
That said, I will note that there is a financial motivation for believing this myth, and that this motivation correlates strongly with the value of residential property one owns and the proportion of one's net worth which that represents.
Pretty much everyone on Metafilter agrees that free universal healthcare is a good idea. When it comes up, we don't get a bunch of people explaining that health is actually complex and just treating everyone won't solve the underlying issues. Why do we think that is?
posted by howfar at 9:52 AM on April 19, 2021 [10 favorites]
Have they used that money to build enough high-quality, easily accessible (for everyone, not just homeless people, poor people or vulnerable people) public housing to reduce the cost of all forms and tenures of housing in the city to an affordable level for everyone? Because if not, they haven't done the simple thing that needs to be done to (almost entirely) end homelessness.
The myth that homelessness is a mysterious, unsolvable problem caused by almost anything and everything except the commodification of housing is progaganda. This myth is aggressively and near-universally promoted, so I don't entirely blame people for swallowing it. We are conditioned to believe that homelessness is fundamentally a consequence of problems afflicting a minority of people, rather than a reflection of the systemic refusal (I won't call it a failure, as this would imply a lack of culpability) of market-driven housing policy to keep housing costs in line with median income, most significantly in urban areas.
That said, I will note that there is a financial motivation for believing this myth, and that this motivation correlates strongly with the value of residential property one owns and the proportion of one's net worth which that represents.
Pretty much everyone on Metafilter agrees that free universal healthcare is a good idea. When it comes up, we don't get a bunch of people explaining that health is actually complex and just treating everyone won't solve the underlying issues. Why do we think that is?
posted by howfar at 9:52 AM on April 19, 2021 [10 favorites]
Is the commodification of housing something a society could abolish?
posted by Selena777 at 10:01 AM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 10:01 AM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
If you mean complete decommodification, it's unlikely it will happen. But commodification is a sliding scale, not an all or nothing. Build good and diverse public housing, buy private rental properties from landlords, increase security of rental tenure and decrease rents (I should note that I tend to think rent caps are generally the worst way to do this latter, although they may be a useful tool in some circumstances). All of these things (particularly the first) can significantly reduce the extent to which housing functions as a commodity rather than infrastructure.
posted by howfar at 10:21 AM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by howfar at 10:21 AM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
The roots of our current situation are complicated. My observations:
- The demise of low-cost “SRO” housing. These were not ideal (far from it), but they provided shelter, a secure place to store one’s belongings, and basic hygiene. Often characterized as “flops”, these places kept many many people off the streets. With urban renewal, such buildings were torn down wholesale, with no thought to replacement. In Denver, the buildings were “replaced” by parking lots for decades.
- The closure of mental health facilities under Reagan. The promised group homes, halfway houses and the like never materialized.
The above two things happened relatively close to one another, and with the tremendous growth in income inequality of the last two decades - we are where we are.
This didn’t happen overnight, and solutions won’t either. Housing first and greater resources and facilities for treating mental illness are the bare minimum needed to make a dent in this. Oh, and the public will to do it.
posted by dbmcd at 10:22 AM on April 19, 2021 [10 favorites]
- The demise of low-cost “SRO” housing. These were not ideal (far from it), but they provided shelter, a secure place to store one’s belongings, and basic hygiene. Often characterized as “flops”, these places kept many many people off the streets. With urban renewal, such buildings were torn down wholesale, with no thought to replacement. In Denver, the buildings were “replaced” by parking lots for decades.
- The closure of mental health facilities under Reagan. The promised group homes, halfway houses and the like never materialized.
The above two things happened relatively close to one another, and with the tremendous growth in income inequality of the last two decades - we are where we are.
This didn’t happen overnight, and solutions won’t either. Housing first and greater resources and facilities for treating mental illness are the bare minimum needed to make a dent in this. Oh, and the public will to do it.
posted by dbmcd at 10:22 AM on April 19, 2021 [10 favorites]
Is the commodification of housing something a society could abolish?
the immediate and BIG stumbling block in my current town (Vancouver) is how very many people have almost all of their equity tied up in their homes. It's been such a boom market for so long that it's become effectively the defacto way to go with regard to making the most out of your savings. It doesn't matter how you lean politically, if you've had a few extra bucks to work with over the years, you've probably sunk them into your homes and mortgages. So to suddenly somehow de-commodify the market would be chaotic to say the least.
That said, it needs to happen. On a fundamental level, one's home (the roof over their head, the bed they sleep in) should not be entangled with the drives and intentions of a commodity market ... assuming we want any level of socioeconomic stability in our culture. We've fumbled our way into this mess (these compounding messes) over a long period years. The way out will also take some time.
[and no, I'm not a homeowner]
posted by philip-random at 10:59 AM on April 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
the immediate and BIG stumbling block in my current town (Vancouver) is how very many people have almost all of their equity tied up in their homes. It's been such a boom market for so long that it's become effectively the defacto way to go with regard to making the most out of your savings. It doesn't matter how you lean politically, if you've had a few extra bucks to work with over the years, you've probably sunk them into your homes and mortgages. So to suddenly somehow de-commodify the market would be chaotic to say the least.
That said, it needs to happen. On a fundamental level, one's home (the roof over their head, the bed they sleep in) should not be entangled with the drives and intentions of a commodity market ... assuming we want any level of socioeconomic stability in our culture. We've fumbled our way into this mess (these compounding messes) over a long period years. The way out will also take some time.
[and no, I'm not a homeowner]
posted by philip-random at 10:59 AM on April 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
"The demise of low-cost “SRO” housing."
It seems to me that the existence of low-cost SRO housing was the result of a pretty unique set of historical events, where central locations with ample infrastructure were abandoned by large portions of the population, because there was a massive government push to subsidize the construction of new neighborhoods and housing, leaving a lot of "low-value" buildings in central but declining locations that became or could be converted to cheap housing. This doesn't seem likely to be repeated-- these central locations are valued more highly today, and the declining areas that exist or will exist have higher maintenance and running costs (e.g. things like transportation, miles of sewer line, square feet of roof area per capita are all higher in the now-declining neighborhoods than they were in the SROs of 50 years ago), so they're unlikely to offer the same dirt-cheap housing opportunities.
posted by alexei at 1:18 PM on April 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
It seems to me that the existence of low-cost SRO housing was the result of a pretty unique set of historical events, where central locations with ample infrastructure were abandoned by large portions of the population, because there was a massive government push to subsidize the construction of new neighborhoods and housing, leaving a lot of "low-value" buildings in central but declining locations that became or could be converted to cheap housing. This doesn't seem likely to be repeated-- these central locations are valued more highly today, and the declining areas that exist or will exist have higher maintenance and running costs (e.g. things like transportation, miles of sewer line, square feet of roof area per capita are all higher in the now-declining neighborhoods than they were in the SROs of 50 years ago), so they're unlikely to offer the same dirt-cheap housing opportunities.
posted by alexei at 1:18 PM on April 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
Were SROs converted? I assumed they were just the last survivors from the 1880s-1940s when a bed sit with a lock and a shared bathroom was respectable housing well up into the clerking classes, let alone the laboring ones.
posted by clew at 4:43 PM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by clew at 4:43 PM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
That's my impression as well. I know the Hotel International in San Francisco definitely was a holdover, and had been housing Asian workers since the early 20th century.
posted by tavella at 4:57 PM on April 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 4:57 PM on April 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
Have they used that money to build enough high-quality, easily accessible (for everyone, not just homeless people, poor people or vulnerable people) public housing to reduce the cost of all forms and tenures of housing in the city to an affordable level for everyone?
yes i think we are in agreement: high quality, low cost, universally accessible, and publically provided housing would indeed solve homelessness.
just like free, universally available green energy would solve climate change, and a guaranteed universal basic income of $75k would solve poverty, and, yes, as you say, medicare for all would solve healthcare access.
the difficulty in public policy is not in simply naming theoretical solutions. anyone can do that. it's finding ways to get people to agree how to pay for it and enact it in their communities, even when they dont all agree with you on the details. my orig point was just that using clearer language helps, but i see this has devolved just as i thought it would. over and out.
posted by wibari at 6:38 PM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
yes i think we are in agreement: high quality, low cost, universally accessible, and publically provided housing would indeed solve homelessness.
just like free, universally available green energy would solve climate change, and a guaranteed universal basic income of $75k would solve poverty, and, yes, as you say, medicare for all would solve healthcare access.
the difficulty in public policy is not in simply naming theoretical solutions. anyone can do that. it's finding ways to get people to agree how to pay for it and enact it in their communities, even when they dont all agree with you on the details. my orig point was just that using clearer language helps, but i see this has devolved just as i thought it would. over and out.
posted by wibari at 6:38 PM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
Housing is essential, but it's not the only answer... I used to see this guy when I'd go to the grocery store. He would shout at cars, pedestrians, thin air. It didn't matter if it was raining or the sun was shining full blast -- he wore a raggedy t-shirt and no shoes. He literally spoke gibberish and behaved erratically. I'm sure the guys at the gas station on the corner where he hung out have called 911 or other services for him multiple times. But here, you cannot get someone help or treatment if they cannot advocate for themselves. He didn't necessarily pose a danger to himself or others, so I can see why he was just left to his own devices, day after day. Hell, many mentally ill people often turn away services.
This guy is part of a good sized population of mentally ill people in the SF Bay Area. If you put him in housing, would he even understand what was happening to him? Someone like him needs even more than just a social worker. I've encountered so many severely mentally ill people when I lived in Berkeley, Oakland, San Francisco. It's overwhelming. One guy tried to elbow me in the head out of nowhere. One guy crossed the street to harass me while I was waiting for the bus in the morning (he yelled nonsensical stuff at me... thankfully the bus came). Another guy grabbed my head and hugged me to his chest while I was chatting with a friend in Berkeley. Another guy in SF used to draw with his own poop on the sidewalk and then sleep next to it. This other dude would always bring trash onto the train when I commuted home from work, and he would flip all the seats in the train car and then proceed to sort through and catalog his trash (mainly plastic and paper items) and spread it everywhere before bolting through the doors. One guy who has been acting erratically and harassing residents on a particular block near my neighborhood ended up setting a fire that displaced multiple families when the buildings burned down.
Sure housing helps, but what do we do with unhoused mentally ill people? Housing is just one part of the equation, and getting them housing does not mean they will be able to stay in housing or make the most of their housing situation. When people say it's complicated, it's because it IS complicated, at least here in the Bay Area. I can't think of any local programs that have worked for this particular population.
posted by extramundane at 7:21 PM on April 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
This guy is part of a good sized population of mentally ill people in the SF Bay Area. If you put him in housing, would he even understand what was happening to him? Someone like him needs even more than just a social worker. I've encountered so many severely mentally ill people when I lived in Berkeley, Oakland, San Francisco. It's overwhelming. One guy tried to elbow me in the head out of nowhere. One guy crossed the street to harass me while I was waiting for the bus in the morning (he yelled nonsensical stuff at me... thankfully the bus came). Another guy grabbed my head and hugged me to his chest while I was chatting with a friend in Berkeley. Another guy in SF used to draw with his own poop on the sidewalk and then sleep next to it. This other dude would always bring trash onto the train when I commuted home from work, and he would flip all the seats in the train car and then proceed to sort through and catalog his trash (mainly plastic and paper items) and spread it everywhere before bolting through the doors. One guy who has been acting erratically and harassing residents on a particular block near my neighborhood ended up setting a fire that displaced multiple families when the buildings burned down.
Sure housing helps, but what do we do with unhoused mentally ill people? Housing is just one part of the equation, and getting them housing does not mean they will be able to stay in housing or make the most of their housing situation. When people say it's complicated, it's because it IS complicated, at least here in the Bay Area. I can't think of any local programs that have worked for this particular population.
posted by extramundane at 7:21 PM on April 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
I don't think "free energy" and "$75k UBI" are usefully comparable to universal healthcare and a public-sector housebuilding programme. The latter two are extant infrastructure that we are already paying for, of which the price is grotesquely inflated and the efficacy horribly diminished by market-driven systems. Saying "we need to build public housing" or "healthcare needs to be free to all" is not asking for more of GDP to be invested in something we don't currently have: it's indicating how GDP can be more efficiently invested.
And yes, that is a difficult thing to achieve given the sort of lies people believe about the universal efficiency of markets. But difficult is not the same as complex. On the Titanic, turning the ship around rather than steaming into sea ice was a difficult argument to win, but that doesn't mean it was complex, or that lobbying the captain to conduct a review into deckchair arrangements would have been a good use of anyone's time.
posted by howfar at 7:23 PM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
And yes, that is a difficult thing to achieve given the sort of lies people believe about the universal efficiency of markets. But difficult is not the same as complex. On the Titanic, turning the ship around rather than steaming into sea ice was a difficult argument to win, but that doesn't mean it was complex, or that lobbying the captain to conduct a review into deckchair arrangements would have been a good use of anyone's time.
posted by howfar at 7:23 PM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
Don't get me started. I can talk for days. I have a lot of interest and ideas - maybe some answers - and way more anger about houselessness than pretty much anything else in my world.
You can see some of it in my past posts and I want to come back to this thread.
posted by bendy at 8:26 PM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
You can see some of it in my past posts and I want to come back to this thread.
posted by bendy at 8:26 PM on April 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
In my town the ‘faith based’ shelter system is run by fascists playing at being Christians. Only the YWCA women’s shelter and the drop in place for young people aren’t fascist run. They not very subtlety brainwash people toward fascism. Their shelters are dangerous places especially for girls and young women. The city has a serious fascist infiltration problem. They organized through a swing dance club ( ironicsince swing dancing was unacceptable among European fascists..). They run anti-masking candidates for local office and the game of Whack-A-Mole is out of hand. There is a need for science based and logic based solutions for the root causes of homelessness, and where applicable, science based treatment to help people with addictions. In some cases, institutionalization is not awful. It is hardly humane to let people die on the streets, nor is it fair to let people with mental issues become a danger to others.
I am old enough to remember when homelessness was not that common.
There were cheap housing options, and more basic jobs you could get. People with serious mental issues were not out on the street. Housing generally was not so expensive in relation to people’s incomes.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 9:33 AM on April 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
I am old enough to remember when homelessness was not that common.
There were cheap housing options, and more basic jobs you could get. People with serious mental issues were not out on the street. Housing generally was not so expensive in relation to people’s incomes.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 9:33 AM on April 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
Every response to homelessness that can be expressed as a slogan or other simple statement is useless.
- Paying living wages and not allowing obscene aggregation of wealth (which includes a lot of real estate investment, pricing it out of reach for many) is one prong, assisting people who are able to work. In many parts of the world, SROs of various sorts used to be common, low-cost housing used to be common. The new housing being built in my area is resolutely upper-middle-income. or it's condos, whose monthly fee includes 'forever profit' for developers, or it's subsidized.
- Paying reasonable pensions to people who are disabled will help. Most SSDI recipients receive between $800 and $1,800 per month (the average for 2021 is $1,277). I'm a geezer and get not all that much in Social Security, but I've also had years of work so I could buy a house and establish some retirement savings. The pittance paid to people on disability is cruel; many have never been able to work much, if at all, and can only live adequately if there's family money, and it's made incredibly difficult to use outside funds.
- Addressing substance abuse is hard. Availability of decent pay may help, as some substance abuse is a response to deep poverty and hopelessness. Addressing mental illness is very hard, and this crosses over with substance abuse. Currently, in the US, severe mental illness is responded to with some combination of denial, family money, and/or prison. Very hard in this case = expensive.
- The quick housing options are appealing, but many ignore the critical need for sanitation and access to transportation and other services. People will create tent cities, cardboard homes, etc., but they lack sanitation and garbage pickup, and become foul and dangerous. They are dangerous for surrounding community, and especially dangerous for the people who live there.
Homelessness is a reflection of how fucked up and damaging capitalism is, and it's getting a lot worse, as capitalism reaches extremes of advantage for the already very wealthy. The simple approaches to it come from a place of love, but it needs an energetic and complex solution.
posted by theora55 at 10:16 AM on April 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
- Paying living wages and not allowing obscene aggregation of wealth (which includes a lot of real estate investment, pricing it out of reach for many) is one prong, assisting people who are able to work. In many parts of the world, SROs of various sorts used to be common, low-cost housing used to be common. The new housing being built in my area is resolutely upper-middle-income. or it's condos, whose monthly fee includes 'forever profit' for developers, or it's subsidized.
- Paying reasonable pensions to people who are disabled will help. Most SSDI recipients receive between $800 and $1,800 per month (the average for 2021 is $1,277). I'm a geezer and get not all that much in Social Security, but I've also had years of work so I could buy a house and establish some retirement savings. The pittance paid to people on disability is cruel; many have never been able to work much, if at all, and can only live adequately if there's family money, and it's made incredibly difficult to use outside funds.
- Addressing substance abuse is hard. Availability of decent pay may help, as some substance abuse is a response to deep poverty and hopelessness. Addressing mental illness is very hard, and this crosses over with substance abuse. Currently, in the US, severe mental illness is responded to with some combination of denial, family money, and/or prison. Very hard in this case = expensive.
- The quick housing options are appealing, but many ignore the critical need for sanitation and access to transportation and other services. People will create tent cities, cardboard homes, etc., but they lack sanitation and garbage pickup, and become foul and dangerous. They are dangerous for surrounding community, and especially dangerous for the people who live there.
Homelessness is a reflection of how fucked up and damaging capitalism is, and it's getting a lot worse, as capitalism reaches extremes of advantage for the already very wealthy. The simple approaches to it come from a place of love, but it needs an energetic and complex solution.
posted by theora55 at 10:16 AM on April 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
@theora55 Spot on wrt SSDI. If all you qualify for is SSI well you better be able to get into public housing. A typical SSI grant is not as good as an SSDI grant and you aren’t allowed to have resources over $2000 per month.
Living on a low income in harsh circumstances with no way to better your life is going to affect your mental health. People have a hard time living on $2000 a month. Yet people with disabilities are expected to livye on far less.
There are also demeaning requirements to getting any sort of practical help about things like shopping, and household help. Ever hear of Electronic Visit Verification? That tracks caregivers, in your home and it tracks YOU. Seriously a convicted felon has more basic rights than a disabled person. Add to the equation things like ‘protective payees’ and ‘conservators’ and you can see why a lot of older people are upset.
They never impose a ‘protective payee’ on a young addict.
The worst single expense for poor people is housing and the attendant expenses involved with housing, the next worst expense is health care.
Many people are one serious illness away from bankruptcy and homelessness.
And I am also here to tell you getting SSI or SSD can take years.
Also if you cannot drive, you will never have a good job. I don’t care how educated and otherwise capable you are. Maybe the East Coast is an exception.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 11:34 AM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
Living on a low income in harsh circumstances with no way to better your life is going to affect your mental health. People have a hard time living on $2000 a month. Yet people with disabilities are expected to livye on far less.
There are also demeaning requirements to getting any sort of practical help about things like shopping, and household help. Ever hear of Electronic Visit Verification? That tracks caregivers, in your home and it tracks YOU. Seriously a convicted felon has more basic rights than a disabled person. Add to the equation things like ‘protective payees’ and ‘conservators’ and you can see why a lot of older people are upset.
They never impose a ‘protective payee’ on a young addict.
The worst single expense for poor people is housing and the attendant expenses involved with housing, the next worst expense is health care.
Many people are one serious illness away from bankruptcy and homelessness.
And I am also here to tell you getting SSI or SSD can take years.
Also if you cannot drive, you will never have a good job. I don’t care how educated and otherwise capable you are. Maybe the East Coast is an exception.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 11:34 AM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
Per the LA Times, a federal judge has ordered the city and county of Los Angeles to offer housing to the entire homeless population of LA's Skid Row by October. The 110-page opinion discusses the issue in the context of the historic racism, redlining, etc.
I don't know whether the order will stand up on appeal or whether the city or county have the ability to comply with the order. But it sure seems like a bold move.
posted by lumpy at 4:53 PM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
I don't know whether the order will stand up on appeal or whether the city or county have the ability to comply with the order. But it sure seems like a bold move.
posted by lumpy at 4:53 PM on April 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
California governor Gavin Newsom, former mayor of San Francisco, has started a statewide program to buy hotels.
With the travel industry hobbled and stimulus money continuing to flow, Gov. Gavin Newsom has since doubled down by creating a program to buy hotels in hopes of creating permanent homeless housing en masse. “This is going to put us on a trajectory to do in literally a couple of years what would have easily taken us a decade or two,” he said in an interview.
I’ve read about agencies renting hotel rooms in other cities - New Orleans and PDX come to mind now - and I think it’s a fantastic boost to the resources for mitigating homelessness, not to mention an economic benefit for the hospitality industry that’s been gutted because of the pandemic.
A friend of mine was a concierge at the fancy Hilton here in Portland, OR, but got laid off last year when their occupancy rate dropped to 4%.
posted by bendy at 5:32 PM on April 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
With the travel industry hobbled and stimulus money continuing to flow, Gov. Gavin Newsom has since doubled down by creating a program to buy hotels in hopes of creating permanent homeless housing en masse. “This is going to put us on a trajectory to do in literally a couple of years what would have easily taken us a decade or two,” he said in an interview.
I’ve read about agencies renting hotel rooms in other cities - New Orleans and PDX come to mind now - and I think it’s a fantastic boost to the resources for mitigating homelessness, not to mention an economic benefit for the hospitality industry that’s been gutted because of the pandemic.
A friend of mine was a concierge at the fancy Hilton here in Portland, OR, but got laid off last year when their occupancy rate dropped to 4%.
posted by bendy at 5:32 PM on April 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
We know how to fix it. In study after study and trial after trial, it comes out that the most effective and cheapest way to solve homelessness is give people a place to live without means testing or requirements or paperwork.
Housing First worked well in Utah until the program ran out of money.
Before COVID I discovered Room In the Inn. It looks like they’ve cut back on their services a lot, but the gist of the program was that a church in Nashville would volunteer their space for a night. The program brought people from their service center in the late afternoon and volunteers from the church would set up beds, cook dinner and give the folks a warm place to sleep. In the morning the volunteers would cook breakfast and Room In the Inn would drive the folks back to their day center.
More info about Room In the Inn [PDF]
There are definitely “Christians” who play fast and loose with their interpretation of the bible and its teachings but I certainly believe that there are good, compassionate Christians who remember what Jesus would actually do and act accordingly.
Here in PDX, a prison almost two decades old that had never been occupied is being converted to a homeless shelter.
One of the initial concerns about using the prison for people who rely heavily on medical and other services in Portland was that there was no public transportation between the jail - which is kind of in the middle of nowhere - and downtown. After a recent conversation with a local woman who works for Transition Projects, I learned that there will be bus or shuttle service to the prison.
When I lived in San Francisco I worked for Episcopal Community Services at their school for adults. We offered basic math and reading classes as well as GED prep. We had computer labs - I felt very lucky I got to build computer labs in two different shelters.
Another great program they have is the CHEFS program that was a multi-month program that taught residents how to work in a restaurant kitchen. Guest chefs would come in and help with the classes. At the end of each program, at their graduation, the students would host a banquet for all residents and staff. There was always much hugging and crying in a good way.
At ECS one of our residences was for “dual-diagnosis” clients - they had two or more challenges, drug addiction, HIV, mental illness, etc. The unfortunate thing is that the front of the building looks like a hypodermic needle.
There are many reasons that people choose not to go to shelters - not only drugs and violence - but their mental illness doesn’t allow them to consider it. Wet shelters are few and far between and the desire to drink often outweighs the desire for shelter. Another issue is people sleeping rough sometimes have dogs or other pets for companionship - there’s no way their pets would be welcome in a shelter.
There’s been a man sleeping in a tent on the sidewalk across the street from my apartment for a month(?). I didn’t see him outside of his tent for awhile and several times a day/night he would shout a string of curse words for ten or fifteen minutes.
Shortly after the recent snowpocalypse here he was sitting in a chair outside his tent. I walked over and told him that I was glad to see him and that I’d been worried about him during the storm. We introduced ourselves and talked for a couple minutes. He is deeply concerned about his territory and people taking his stuff. I believe that’s the main reason for his yelling.
I had heard a couple neighbors making comments about him in the foyer outside my door and was worried that they might call the police on him. One day I bumped into them on the porch and told them his situation and that his name is Robb - with two b’s.
In my opinion, the biggest crimes against the homeless are the ridiculous wealth inequity in this country and the dehumanization and criminalization of people forced to sleep outside or in shelters who don’t have the support they need.
“There’s only one rule that I know of, babies—God damn it, you’ve got to be kind.”
posted by bendy at 6:37 PM on April 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
Housing First worked well in Utah until the program ran out of money.
Before COVID I discovered Room In the Inn. It looks like they’ve cut back on their services a lot, but the gist of the program was that a church in Nashville would volunteer their space for a night. The program brought people from their service center in the late afternoon and volunteers from the church would set up beds, cook dinner and give the folks a warm place to sleep. In the morning the volunteers would cook breakfast and Room In the Inn would drive the folks back to their day center.
More info about Room In the Inn [PDF]
There are definitely “Christians” who play fast and loose with their interpretation of the bible and its teachings but I certainly believe that there are good, compassionate Christians who remember what Jesus would actually do and act accordingly.
Here in PDX, a prison almost two decades old that had never been occupied is being converted to a homeless shelter.
One of the initial concerns about using the prison for people who rely heavily on medical and other services in Portland was that there was no public transportation between the jail - which is kind of in the middle of nowhere - and downtown. After a recent conversation with a local woman who works for Transition Projects, I learned that there will be bus or shuttle service to the prison.
When I lived in San Francisco I worked for Episcopal Community Services at their school for adults. We offered basic math and reading classes as well as GED prep. We had computer labs - I felt very lucky I got to build computer labs in two different shelters.
Another great program they have is the CHEFS program that was a multi-month program that taught residents how to work in a restaurant kitchen. Guest chefs would come in and help with the classes. At the end of each program, at their graduation, the students would host a banquet for all residents and staff. There was always much hugging and crying in a good way.
At ECS one of our residences was for “dual-diagnosis” clients - they had two or more challenges, drug addiction, HIV, mental illness, etc. The unfortunate thing is that the front of the building looks like a hypodermic needle.
There are many reasons that people choose not to go to shelters - not only drugs and violence - but their mental illness doesn’t allow them to consider it. Wet shelters are few and far between and the desire to drink often outweighs the desire for shelter. Another issue is people sleeping rough sometimes have dogs or other pets for companionship - there’s no way their pets would be welcome in a shelter.
There’s been a man sleeping in a tent on the sidewalk across the street from my apartment for a month(?). I didn’t see him outside of his tent for awhile and several times a day/night he would shout a string of curse words for ten or fifteen minutes.
Shortly after the recent snowpocalypse here he was sitting in a chair outside his tent. I walked over and told him that I was glad to see him and that I’d been worried about him during the storm. We introduced ourselves and talked for a couple minutes. He is deeply concerned about his territory and people taking his stuff. I believe that’s the main reason for his yelling.
I had heard a couple neighbors making comments about him in the foyer outside my door and was worried that they might call the police on him. One day I bumped into them on the porch and told them his situation and that his name is Robb - with two b’s.
In my opinion, the biggest crimes against the homeless are the ridiculous wealth inequity in this country and the dehumanization and criminalization of people forced to sleep outside or in shelters who don’t have the support they need.
“There’s only one rule that I know of, babies—God damn it, you’ve got to be kind.”
posted by bendy at 6:37 PM on April 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
In November 2017, Tim Boyle, the CEO of Columbia Sportswear posted a plea to the mayor of Portland to hire more police because his employees were being “threatened” and “menaced” by homeless people near the door of his new Portland office. The op-ed.
Anger and criticism were immediate - I wish I could find the perfectly-worded, compassionate op-ed a man in homeless services published the next day.
Within a few weeks Boyle pledged $1.5 million dollars to build a ”navigation center” in Portland.
After this proof of his hypocrisy I put my really nice Columbia jacket outside for someone who needed it. It gives me some comfort to know that someone now is warm in a jacket that has “Fuck Tim Boyle” written in Sharpie on the tag
posted by bendy at 6:56 PM on April 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
Anger and criticism were immediate - I wish I could find the perfectly-worded, compassionate op-ed a man in homeless services published the next day.
Within a few weeks Boyle pledged $1.5 million dollars to build a ”navigation center” in Portland.
After this proof of his hypocrisy I put my really nice Columbia jacket outside for someone who needed it. It gives me some comfort to know that someone now is warm in a jacket that has “Fuck Tim Boyle” written in Sharpie on the tag
posted by bendy at 6:56 PM on April 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
Not to make this post all about me, but I sent this email to “Corporate Responsibility” at Columbia shortly after his op-ed... (I warned you I’m angry.)
Hey Tim,
It’s 2:30 AM on Christmas and I just spent some time with a guy named Mike sleeping on NW 23rd Street. In fact this is the second night in a row I’ve talked to him. Last night it was cold, but he has a warm sleeping bag and lots of layers and plenty of corrugated to build a fort.
After about an hour sitting with him last night - when it was at least ten degrees warmer than it is tonight - I got up to go home because I was almost the coldest I’ve ever been.
Tonight I went back down to see if he was there again and he was - all the cold-weather shelters are full tonight. His corrugated fort was thicker and has a roof now, but he was awake because he was too cold to sleep. His sleeping bag “wasn’t cutting it.”
I brought him a coffee and some of those hand-warmer things from the Chevron. I tucked a couple candy canes into the bag in a pathetic attempt to bring him some Christmas cheer.
I’m going back down there at 5AM to catch my bus to the airport and I’m going to check on him again just to make sure he didn’t freeze to death in 29 degree weather on Christmas morning on the streets of a city that you claim to care about.
I’ve been unemployed for 3.5 years now. This year I earned $0. How much was your salary? I notice your company netted 1.82 billion dollars last year.
I give homeless people whatever I can spare. I sit down on the street with them and I talk to them. I treat them as real people, ask them their names, ask them their stories, offer them hugs. Homeless people are people before and in spite of being homeless.
I imagine you’ll never see this message - corporate responsibility can only go so far, right? But if you do I hope you think about my friend Mike every night you get in a warm bed in a room with heat where you aren’t hungry.
I can’t, in good conscience, wear my Columbia jacket anymore - I’ve already Sharpied over the logo - and I’m donating it to the Transitions Project where it will do more good than you whining about the city needing to hire more police. Fortunately it was a gift and I didn’t have to contribute to your personal wealth.
In fact I’m going to thrift stores after I start my job next month and buying up all the Columbia jackets I can find to donate. I would love to see every homeless person in Portland wearing Columbia stuff with its gigantic logos.
Maybe you have a spare Columbia jacket or sleeping bag you could donate that could help keep someone less-fortunate than you alive. Ah, I didn’t think so.
There but for the grace of whoever, go I. You too Tim Boyle.
I hope your Christmas is cozy!
Wendy
posted by bendy at 7:12 PM on April 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hey Tim,
It’s 2:30 AM on Christmas and I just spent some time with a guy named Mike sleeping on NW 23rd Street. In fact this is the second night in a row I’ve talked to him. Last night it was cold, but he has a warm sleeping bag and lots of layers and plenty of corrugated to build a fort.
After about an hour sitting with him last night - when it was at least ten degrees warmer than it is tonight - I got up to go home because I was almost the coldest I’ve ever been.
Tonight I went back down to see if he was there again and he was - all the cold-weather shelters are full tonight. His corrugated fort was thicker and has a roof now, but he was awake because he was too cold to sleep. His sleeping bag “wasn’t cutting it.”
I brought him a coffee and some of those hand-warmer things from the Chevron. I tucked a couple candy canes into the bag in a pathetic attempt to bring him some Christmas cheer.
I’m going back down there at 5AM to catch my bus to the airport and I’m going to check on him again just to make sure he didn’t freeze to death in 29 degree weather on Christmas morning on the streets of a city that you claim to care about.
I’ve been unemployed for 3.5 years now. This year I earned $0. How much was your salary? I notice your company netted 1.82 billion dollars last year.
I give homeless people whatever I can spare. I sit down on the street with them and I talk to them. I treat them as real people, ask them their names, ask them their stories, offer them hugs. Homeless people are people before and in spite of being homeless.
I imagine you’ll never see this message - corporate responsibility can only go so far, right? But if you do I hope you think about my friend Mike every night you get in a warm bed in a room with heat where you aren’t hungry.
I can’t, in good conscience, wear my Columbia jacket anymore - I’ve already Sharpied over the logo - and I’m donating it to the Transitions Project where it will do more good than you whining about the city needing to hire more police. Fortunately it was a gift and I didn’t have to contribute to your personal wealth.
In fact I’m going to thrift stores after I start my job next month and buying up all the Columbia jackets I can find to donate. I would love to see every homeless person in Portland wearing Columbia stuff with its gigantic logos.
Maybe you have a spare Columbia jacket or sleeping bag you could donate that could help keep someone less-fortunate than you alive. Ah, I didn’t think so.
There but for the grace of whoever, go I. You too Tim Boyle.
I hope your Christmas is cozy!
Wendy
posted by bendy at 7:12 PM on April 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
His sleeping bag “wasn’t cutting it.”
Also, add to this sentence, “his arms were crossed over his chest for warmth and in one hand he held a very big knife for protection from others on the street.”
posted by bendy at 12:48 AM on April 22, 2021
Also, add to this sentence, “his arms were crossed over his chest for warmth and in one hand he held a very big knife for protection from others on the street.”
posted by bendy at 12:48 AM on April 22, 2021
Jeff Bezos visits family shelter in Amazon's Seattle HQ, celebrates 1-year anniversary: 'Thank you' - "Amazon's CEO and Washington's governor toured the Mary's Place Family Center in the tech giant's headquarters."[1,2]
posted by kliuless at 10:21 PM on April 26, 2021
"Built inside an Amazon office building at our Seattle HQ, Washington State's largest family shelter has already provided 700 people with safe shelter, served over 130,000 meals to guests, and welcomed 26 babies born to moms in residence," Bezos said in a statement. "Thank you to the Mary's Place and Amazon teams for their heart and their dedication to making The Regrade shelter a critical resource for our community."Daddy Warbucks: "I'm a businessman. I love money, I love power, I love capitalism. I do not now and never will love children."
The eight-floor facility has sleeping quarters that can accommodate up to 200 family members per night. Two floors hold 30 Popsicle Place rooms where families can care for medically fragile children. According to Amazon’s most recent press release, 26 children and 26 newborn babies have been cared for in its Popsicle Place.
Other amenities at the emergency shelter include an industrial kitchen and dining room, an onsite health clinic, recreation areas and spaces dedicated to connecting residents with local service providers or pro-bono legal assistance – some of which came from Amazon lawyers.
posted by kliuless at 10:21 PM on April 26, 2021
In January 2020 the yearly Point-in-Time count in King County, Washington, found 11,751 people homeless either sheltered or unsheltered.
Thanks Bezos from 0.05% of the bottom of my heart.
posted by bendy at 5:42 AM on April 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Thanks Bezos from 0.05% of the bottom of my heart.
posted by bendy at 5:42 AM on April 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
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