Sinead O'Connor Remembers Things Differently
May 20, 2021 12:49 PM Subscribe
...the overreaction to O’Connor was not just about whether she was right or wrong; it was about the kinds of provocations we accept from women in music. “Not because I was famous or anything, but because I was a human being, I had a right to put my hand up and say what I felt,” O’Connor said....O’Connor has seen a little bit of herself in women who came after her — in Amy Winehouse and Britney Spears. “What they did to Britney Spears was disgusting,” she said. “If you met a stranger in the street crying, you’d put your arms around her. You wouldn’t start taking photos of her, you know?” Amanda Hess (New York Times soft paywall; Archive.org link) interviews Sinead O'Connor ahead of the June 1st release of her new memoir, Rememberings. [Content warnings: trauma and abuse]
No, they don't, not at rock concerts anyway. That would be really weird.
posted by Jess the Mess at 1:44 PM on May 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Jess the Mess at 1:44 PM on May 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
I had a lot of discomfort reading this article the other day. I am very sympathetic to her having a voice right now, but this seemed to just... take her at her word for everything, and that feels really irresponsible to me.
I remember the absolutely heartbreaking videos she posted a few years ago on social media, absolutely at bottom, claiming that she was alone in a motel broke and having to fend for herself. People were very upset on her behalf and asking where her family was, where were her doctors, what terrible people they must be, etc. Meanwhile those very people had been working their asses off trying to make sure she stayed safe and healthy when she had been sabotaging the efforts thanks to mental illness. I'm not blaming her - mental illness is amazing at self-sabotage - but iirc those caregivers never got any "hey, thanks" or a statement clarifying the situation once she was stabilized again.
Between that and the Arsenio Hall/Prince thing, I don't know how it helps her to frame this as "every time we call her crazy, she's always right." That framework seems to feed into encouraging the self-sabotage.
posted by queensissy at 2:07 PM on May 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
I remember the absolutely heartbreaking videos she posted a few years ago on social media, absolutely at bottom, claiming that she was alone in a motel broke and having to fend for herself. People were very upset on her behalf and asking where her family was, where were her doctors, what terrible people they must be, etc. Meanwhile those very people had been working their asses off trying to make sure she stayed safe and healthy when she had been sabotaging the efforts thanks to mental illness. I'm not blaming her - mental illness is amazing at self-sabotage - but iirc those caregivers never got any "hey, thanks" or a statement clarifying the situation once she was stabilized again.
Between that and the Arsenio Hall/Prince thing, I don't know how it helps her to frame this as "every time we call her crazy, she's always right." That framework seems to feed into encouraging the self-sabotage.
posted by queensissy at 2:07 PM on May 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
this seemed to just... take her at her word for everything, and that feels really irresponsible to me.
If we’d done that back when she was on SNL it might have saved a lot of kids from a lot of pain, including her.
posted by mhoye at 2:16 PM on May 20, 2021 [42 favorites]
If we’d done that back when she was on SNL it might have saved a lot of kids from a lot of pain, including her.
posted by mhoye at 2:16 PM on May 20, 2021 [42 favorites]
“If you met a stranger in the street crying, you’d put your arms around her. You wouldn’t start taking photos of her, you know?my goodness, this
Sinead means a great deal to me. Every call for empathy, for justice, that her voice has radiated over the years is just...resonant. Please see me, it says, over and over.
I had a really shitty cassette copy of The Lion and the Cobra years ago, and I'd sometimes play it on a crummy Walkman while moping around campus. "just like u said it would b" could really hit hard - the way it pulled me into the narrator's testimony, into her pain and resilience and fury and recapture of her voice and strength? I'm not sure I can capture what that did for me, but I think of it again and again.
When Joe Pesci answered her SNL statement? It was so clear, in that moment, just how much larger her mind and heart are.
What voices approach hers? I think of Janis, and, recently, Billie Eilish. I am sure there are others. I'd love to hear them.
posted by Caxton1476 at 2:24 PM on May 20, 2021 [9 favorites]
A friend grew up with her and will happily testify to her generosity to others
posted by mbo at 2:34 PM on May 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by mbo at 2:34 PM on May 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
but iirc those caregivers never got any "hey, thanks" or a statement clarifying the situation once she was stabilized again.
From the article: "She spent six years in and out of mental health facilities — the book is partly dedicated to the staff and patients at St. Patrick’s University Hospital — and she now has some clarity about how her mind works: Chiefly, that she has complex post-traumatic stress disorder and borderline personality disorder."
I, personally, am not comfortable with the idea that someone with mental illness (or any illness) owes any public apologies for the 'trouble' and upset caused by their illness, no more than someone with cancer owes apologies for making their friends and loved ones sad and anxious with worry. Yes, sometimes mental illness can be a factor that leads people to do or say specific things to specific people that may warrant an apology, but I don't think that we have any evidence that this is the case here. Even if it is, I don't think that O'Connor is required to tell us about it.
posted by cilantro at 2:42 PM on May 20, 2021 [42 favorites]
From the article: "She spent six years in and out of mental health facilities — the book is partly dedicated to the staff and patients at St. Patrick’s University Hospital — and she now has some clarity about how her mind works: Chiefly, that she has complex post-traumatic stress disorder and borderline personality disorder."
I, personally, am not comfortable with the idea that someone with mental illness (or any illness) owes any public apologies for the 'trouble' and upset caused by their illness, no more than someone with cancer owes apologies for making their friends and loved ones sad and anxious with worry. Yes, sometimes mental illness can be a factor that leads people to do or say specific things to specific people that may warrant an apology, but I don't think that we have any evidence that this is the case here. Even if it is, I don't think that O'Connor is required to tell us about it.
posted by cilantro at 2:42 PM on May 20, 2021 [42 favorites]
Some of the discussion we've had on this site about the difficulty of separating the Art from the Artist came to mind after reading this article.
Take the unfortunate behavior of Prince as recounted in this interview, it doesn't seem to have risen to the level of Michael Jackson, Woody Allen, Kevin Spacey, etc, but still very problematic.
I mention this only because Sinead O'Connor's Art and her as an Artist seemed fused from the beginning. Her debut album "The Lion and the Cobra" is a ferocious work of music, where she's singing about betrayals, abuse, and other dark themes, all sung to (mostly) catchy melodies. It's one of my favorite albums from the 80s.
Her background of mental illness is relevant to the music, but should also be separate, no? But wait, it can't be separate because that's what's she singing about! I respect her tremendously for being able to channel her pain into song, it's a remarkably difficult thing to do.
posted by jeremias at 3:05 PM on May 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
Take the unfortunate behavior of Prince as recounted in this interview, it doesn't seem to have risen to the level of Michael Jackson, Woody Allen, Kevin Spacey, etc, but still very problematic.
I mention this only because Sinead O'Connor's Art and her as an Artist seemed fused from the beginning. Her debut album "The Lion and the Cobra" is a ferocious work of music, where she's singing about betrayals, abuse, and other dark themes, all sung to (mostly) catchy melodies. It's one of my favorite albums from the 80s.
Her background of mental illness is relevant to the music, but should also be separate, no? But wait, it can't be separate because that's what's she singing about! I respect her tremendously for being able to channel her pain into song, it's a remarkably difficult thing to do.
posted by jeremias at 3:05 PM on May 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
I’m glad to know that she’s finally finding some peace in her life.
She always sang like she was bleeding into the microphone. Nothing held back. And I’ve always said that if it was a man who tore that picture, nobody would have given a damn.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:14 PM on May 20, 2021 [10 favorites]
She always sang like she was bleeding into the microphone. Nothing held back. And I’ve always said that if it was a man who tore that picture, nobody would have given a damn.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:14 PM on May 20, 2021 [10 favorites]
Take the unfortunate behavior of Prince as recounted in this interview
I love Sinead as a singer. And I'm trying really hard to feel compassion for her obviously very severe mental illness.
But it's hard for me to just feel ok with her dragging Prince's name through the mud repeatedly. She has trotted out this same story numerous times over the years, starting when Prince was still alive, and it reliably gets her attention from people who didn't hear it the first time... or the second...
There is zero corroboration that Prince ever acted that way. Even bandmates who had issues with Prince back in the day never ever say he was violent. Ex-wives and girlfriends say this is BS. I wish Prince or his estate would have shut this defamation down with a lawsuit like Arsenio did.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 3:53 PM on May 20, 2021
I love Sinead as a singer. And I'm trying really hard to feel compassion for her obviously very severe mental illness.
But it's hard for me to just feel ok with her dragging Prince's name through the mud repeatedly. She has trotted out this same story numerous times over the years, starting when Prince was still alive, and it reliably gets her attention from people who didn't hear it the first time... or the second...
There is zero corroboration that Prince ever acted that way. Even bandmates who had issues with Prince back in the day never ever say he was violent. Ex-wives and girlfriends say this is BS. I wish Prince or his estate would have shut this defamation down with a lawsuit like Arsenio did.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 3:53 PM on May 20, 2021
She always sang like she was bleeding into the microphone.
This performance is so, so good.
posted by nushustu at 4:03 PM on May 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
This performance is so, so good.
posted by nushustu at 4:03 PM on May 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
→
Maybe, just maybe, she's right. Prince has been practically canonized since he died.
posted by scruss at 4:07 PM on May 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
But it's hard for me to just feel ok with her dragging Prince's name through the mud repeatedly
Maybe, just maybe, she's right. Prince has been practically canonized since he died.
posted by scruss at 4:07 PM on May 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
I remember the SNL moment, watched it live on TV, with my Catholic girlfriend. I was so excited I cheered -- the bravery, the clarity of message, something real happening on TV, to the utter shock of the live studio audience, who sat in hushed silence in the moments before commercial. My gf was rather offended, offering various defenses of how much good the Pope had done in the world for poor people, etc. But plenty of people knew, even back then, about the church (see: altar boy jokes). The fact that the picture once belonged to Sinead's mother gives that moment a whole other dimension. We witnessed not just an act of defiance, but an exorcism.
posted by swift at 4:20 PM on May 20, 2021 [21 favorites]
posted by swift at 4:20 PM on May 20, 2021 [21 favorites]
There is zero corroboration that Prince ever acted that way. Even bandmates who had issues with Prince back in the day never ever say he was violent. Ex-wives and girlfriends say this is BS.
Maybe he wasn't violent to them but he was still violent to her, there doesn't need to be a long history or pattern of violence. I'm reminded of the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard situation where ex-wives and girlfriends said he wasn't abusive.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:36 PM on May 20, 2021 [12 favorites]
Maybe he wasn't violent to them but he was still violent to her, there doesn't need to be a long history or pattern of violence. I'm reminded of the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard situation where ex-wives and girlfriends said he wasn't abusive.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:36 PM on May 20, 2021 [12 favorites]
I have multiple Prince songs on my "repeat all day long" playlist. But am I missing something about why people are upset about the stories she's telling related to Prince? Isn't he very very well known for eccentric behavior including a lot of stuff related to power? Google yields a ton of hits for this. Here's one quote from Carmen Electra :
Electra: I don't know one beautiful woman who didn't want to be with him. But it did hurt me. It hurt me really bad. And I was too young to really communicate with him, so I just kind of pulled away. And during that time I went out with a guy—I hadn't slept with this person—and Prince found out. He said, "I wrote this song about you," and then he played "I Hate U." It was hard to hear. And it was even harder to hear the parts of the song that said it could have been a completely different way. Then to say, "I hate you because I love you"—I literally cried in front of him. I think he just wanted me to hear it and know that he was really upset. Then he flew me back to Los Angeles.
Or this anecdote involving Michael Jackson:
When both were recording at the same Los Angeles studio, Prince invited [Michael] Jackson to play ping-pong. Michael, who had lived a sheltered life, didn’t know how. ‘You want me to slam it?’ Prince asked, according to engineer David Z, who was there. Michael dropped his paddle and held his hands up in front of his face so the ball wouldn’t hit him. Michael walked out with his bodyguard, and Prince started strutting around like a rooster. ‘Did you see that? He played like Helen Keller.’ ” — Jon Bream, music critic, Minneapolis Star Tribune (2009)
Jackson and Electra were familiar with the weird life distortions that come with fame, and it sounds like O'Connor was not (and probably was a lot less socially smooth overall). Without evidence either way, I don't see it as exactly out of character that Prince might have decided she had to eat soup, or followed her in his car if he felt she was "abrasive" or "disobeyed". And it seems completely reasonable that this would be really freaking upsetting for her. If O'Connor had been a more fame oriented person, her "Prince is so crazy!" anecdotes might have ended up in one of these articles, and they wouldn't have looked out of place. "Remember the time with the soup?"
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 4:42 PM on May 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
Electra: I don't know one beautiful woman who didn't want to be with him. But it did hurt me. It hurt me really bad. And I was too young to really communicate with him, so I just kind of pulled away. And during that time I went out with a guy—I hadn't slept with this person—and Prince found out. He said, "I wrote this song about you," and then he played "I Hate U." It was hard to hear. And it was even harder to hear the parts of the song that said it could have been a completely different way. Then to say, "I hate you because I love you"—I literally cried in front of him. I think he just wanted me to hear it and know that he was really upset. Then he flew me back to Los Angeles.
Or this anecdote involving Michael Jackson:
When both were recording at the same Los Angeles studio, Prince invited [Michael] Jackson to play ping-pong. Michael, who had lived a sheltered life, didn’t know how. ‘You want me to slam it?’ Prince asked, according to engineer David Z, who was there. Michael dropped his paddle and held his hands up in front of his face so the ball wouldn’t hit him. Michael walked out with his bodyguard, and Prince started strutting around like a rooster. ‘Did you see that? He played like Helen Keller.’ ” — Jon Bream, music critic, Minneapolis Star Tribune (2009)
Jackson and Electra were familiar with the weird life distortions that come with fame, and it sounds like O'Connor was not (and probably was a lot less socially smooth overall). Without evidence either way, I don't see it as exactly out of character that Prince might have decided she had to eat soup, or followed her in his car if he felt she was "abrasive" or "disobeyed". And it seems completely reasonable that this would be really freaking upsetting for her. If O'Connor had been a more fame oriented person, her "Prince is so crazy!" anecdotes might have ended up in one of these articles, and they wouldn't have looked out of place. "Remember the time with the soup?"
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 4:42 PM on May 20, 2021 [16 favorites]
Prince does have that reputation of not being a nice person. Does that mean he was abusive, or should be labeled as an abuser?
Something that I find interesting about this is that even though her biggest hit was a Prince song, I don’t know if she really ever “crossed over.” Like I don’t think I’ve ever really heard a black person talk about her, or if they did, it was as a one hit wonder, or maybe a joke. Her ripping of the portrait didn’t really resonate in that community—there aren’t a lot of black Catholics. So seeing how many people feel so strongly about her and what she did is somewhat surreal to me. For people wondering why her Prince story hasn’t gotten much traction, I think this is partially why.
posted by girlmightlive at 4:51 PM on May 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
Something that I find interesting about this is that even though her biggest hit was a Prince song, I don’t know if she really ever “crossed over.” Like I don’t think I’ve ever really heard a black person talk about her, or if they did, it was as a one hit wonder, or maybe a joke. Her ripping of the portrait didn’t really resonate in that community—there aren’t a lot of black Catholics. So seeing how many people feel so strongly about her and what she did is somewhat surreal to me. For people wondering why her Prince story hasn’t gotten much traction, I think this is partially why.
posted by girlmightlive at 4:51 PM on May 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
The comments about how Sinead should just shut up about Prince remind me way too much of the mainstream reaction to her ripping that photograph. I mean, if you want to sound like Sinatra calling her "one stupid broad," go for it, but a good look it's not.
posted by Lyme Drop at 5:14 PM on May 20, 2021 [31 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 5:14 PM on May 20, 2021 [31 favorites]
the bravery, the clarity of message, something real happening on TV, to the utter shock of the live studio audience, who sat in hushed silence in the moments before commercial.
The opening line of the opening monologue of the following show was Joe Pesci saying, “She was very lucky it wasn't my show, because if it was my show, I would have gave her such a smack” to raucous applause.
posted by mhoye at 5:36 PM on May 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
The opening line of the opening monologue of the following show was Joe Pesci saying, “She was very lucky it wasn't my show, because if it was my show, I would have gave her such a smack” to raucous applause.
posted by mhoye at 5:36 PM on May 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
This blog post from 2010 has stayed with me for a long, long time: Isn’t Sinead O’Connor overdue a massive, grovelling apology from absolutely everybody?
As recently as 2019, Lorne Michaels had no regrets about he handled the situation, and felt like he was the one who was owed an apology.
The way she was treated after her SNL performance was appalling, and there are an awful lot of (currently well-regarded) folks who owe her an apology.
Prince is a difficult conversation that feels like it's overdue. There a long and well-documented history of him being a nightmare person, and O'Connor's anecdote fits in with those stories. I see no reason not to take her word here.
posted by schmod at 7:10 PM on May 20, 2021 [19 favorites]
As recently as 2019, Lorne Michaels had no regrets about he handled the situation, and felt like he was the one who was owed an apology.
The way she was treated after her SNL performance was appalling, and there are an awful lot of (currently well-regarded) folks who owe her an apology.
Prince is a difficult conversation that feels like it's overdue. There a long and well-documented history of him being a nightmare person, and O'Connor's anecdote fits in with those stories. I see no reason not to take her word here.
posted by schmod at 7:10 PM on May 20, 2021 [19 favorites]
I'm not blaming her - mental illness is amazing at self-sabotage - but iirc those caregivers never got any "hey, thanks" or a statement clarifying the situation once she was stabilized again.
You have no idea if they got a "hey thanks" back then, but if you read the article you know they've gotten one now. As for self-sabotage, it's an odd thing to blame a person with an illness for the symptoms of that illness.
Sinead is a brilliant woman who's had some real hard times. I'm glad she's in a good place now and hope she can stay there.
posted by Mavri at 7:51 PM on May 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
You have no idea if they got a "hey thanks" back then, but if you read the article you know they've gotten one now. As for self-sabotage, it's an odd thing to blame a person with an illness for the symptoms of that illness.
Sinead is a brilliant woman who's had some real hard times. I'm glad she's in a good place now and hope she can stay there.
posted by Mavri at 7:51 PM on May 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
there aren’t a lot of black Catholics.
Well except for the Caribbean and a whole lot of Africa.
posted by Miko at 8:46 PM on May 20, 2021 [34 favorites]
Well except for the Caribbean and a whole lot of Africa.
posted by Miko at 8:46 PM on May 20, 2021 [34 favorites]
The piece did contextualize her in a big way for me by framing her as an indie punk artist - and a super original one - who got taken up by the pop
machine (because she was beautiful as well as an amazing singer, and in the wake of U2 they saw dollar signs), and she was just unwilling to fit that agenda, instead of being “a pop artist who lost it.”
That narrative shift alone is huge and a good indictment of the whole industry.
The SNL thing was an utterly transgressive moment. I it was a powerful statement , but the US TV audience lacked the context to understand. Even now people don’t know how the Church covered up not only sexual abuse but the starvation and abuse and secret burial of poor children. What Sinead knew about as an Irish woman was not yet knowledge in wide circulation - so it hit the audience like, WTF?
I agree ; if it had been someone make like Bono or John Lennon who had done it (and he came pretty close) it would be like a sanctified act that people would have lionized him for. A woman without a long pedigree in pop culture didn’t have that latitude.
posted by Miko at 8:54 PM on May 20, 2021 [18 favorites]
machine (because she was beautiful as well as an amazing singer, and in the wake of U2 they saw dollar signs), and she was just unwilling to fit that agenda, instead of being “a pop artist who lost it.”
That narrative shift alone is huge and a good indictment of the whole industry.
The SNL thing was an utterly transgressive moment. I it was a powerful statement , but the US TV audience lacked the context to understand. Even now people don’t know how the Church covered up not only sexual abuse but the starvation and abuse and secret burial of poor children. What Sinead knew about as an Irish woman was not yet knowledge in wide circulation - so it hit the audience like, WTF?
I agree ; if it had been someone make like Bono or John Lennon who had done it (and he came pretty close) it would be like a sanctified act that people would have lionized him for. A woman without a long pedigree in pop culture didn’t have that latitude.
posted by Miko at 8:54 PM on May 20, 2021 [18 favorites]
If you haven't seen this, do so: Sinead O´connor - Madison Square Garden
posted by signal at 9:07 PM on May 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by signal at 9:07 PM on May 20, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think the best concert I ever went to was a double bill in 1990 Berlin, just after the wall came down - Sinead and Midnight Oil (Beds are Burning had just come out) - simply amazing - Pink Floyd were setting up to play "The Wall" the following week, but we went to this and likely got the better deal
posted by mbo at 9:41 PM on May 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by mbo at 9:41 PM on May 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
Saved me from Catholicism, anyway. Thanks, my tender comrade.
posted by eustatic at 10:15 PM on May 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 10:15 PM on May 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
Well except for the Caribbean and a whole lot of Africa.
Yeah, and the more charitable reading is that I was speaking about black Americans, as the performance was on American TV.
posted by girlmightlive at 3:03 AM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
Yeah, and the more charitable reading is that I was speaking about black Americans, as the performance was on American TV.
posted by girlmightlive at 3:03 AM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
I was a kid in North Carolina surrounded by Protestants when she was on SNL. I did not really know any Catholics or much about Catholicism. The outrage about the Pope's picture made zero sense to me. He's just some guy, and it was just a picture of him. I sort of get it now, but still, I don't think there's anyone in the world whose picture being torn would make me issue death threats. It's just weird, y'all.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:43 AM on May 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 5:43 AM on May 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
if it had been someone make like Bono or John Lennon who had done it (and he came pretty close) it would be like a sanctified act that people would have lionized him for.
It seems like you are familiar with what happened when John Lennon said the Beatles were "more popular than Jesus," but perhaps others are not. There were protests, record burnings, and death threats. The backlash contributed to the Beatles' decision not to tour again. Mark David Chapman destroyed his Beatles albums and ultimately murdered Lennon.
posted by FencingGal at 6:00 AM on May 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
It seems like you are familiar with what happened when John Lennon said the Beatles were "more popular than Jesus," but perhaps others are not. There were protests, record burnings, and death threats. The backlash contributed to the Beatles' decision not to tour again. Mark David Chapman destroyed his Beatles albums and ultimately murdered Lennon.
posted by FencingGal at 6:00 AM on May 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
Well except for the Caribbean and a whole lot of Africa.
Yeah, and the more charitable reading is that I was speaking about black Americans, as the performance was on American TV.
There are about 3 million African American Catholics, which is probably more than most people realize. About a quarter of those worship in historically Black parishes.
posted by FencingGal at 6:05 AM on May 21, 2021 [16 favorites]
Yeah, and the more charitable reading is that I was speaking about black Americans, as the performance was on American TV.
There are about 3 million African American Catholics, which is probably more than most people realize. About a quarter of those worship in historically Black parishes.
posted by FencingGal at 6:05 AM on May 21, 2021 [16 favorites]
I love Sinead O'Connor to an inordinate degree, and The Lion and the Cobra came along at a pivotal time in my life and was a really important album to me. I was 14 and kind of a mess, and I think that album was the first time I had been exposed to any artistic expression of female emotion that wasn't intended to be pretty. It's beautiful, but it's also messy and raw. I was fairly messy and raw at that particular moment, and I related. And that wasn't an experience that I got to have a lot as a teenager: encountering popular culture to which I could relate without doing a lot of translation.
Having said that, I think that ripping up the picture on SNL was probably the least interesting thing she did that year, and I also think it kind of missed the mark. The problem was the venue. It would have made sense to rip up a picture of the Pope and say "fight the real enemy" if she'd done it on Irish TV. In Ireland, there was basically no separation between church and state, and the Catholic Church, the Irish government, and the patriarchal family were completely bound up with each other. O'Connor is kind of the poster child for how this alliance led to abuse: her family situation was made much worse because her parents were unable to divorce when their marriage broke down, and she spent several years as a teenager in a Magdalene asylum, a Church-run workhouse for wayward girls and women. In Ireland, ripping up a picture of the Pope would clearly be a protest against the whole sordid patriarchal swamp that the country was for most of the 20th century, and "fight the real enemy" kind of makes sense in that context.
But she didn't rip up a picture of the Pope on Irish TV, and in the US, the Catholic Church didn't have the same status. It wasn't all-powerful. It didn't single-handedly dictate social policy. The government didn't outsource the punishment of teen shoplifters to Catholic workhouses. The American Catholic Church was powerful and patriarchal, but it was just one of a lot of powerful, patriarchal institutions. George W. Bush was a fundamentalist Protestant, not a Catholic, and that was true of many of the powerful patriarchs messing things up in the US. And in that context, singling out the Pope as "the real enemy" seemed like it was invoking a weird conspiracy theory. For older Catholics like Sinatra, it probably invoked a long history of anti-Catholic conspiracy theories in the US. So while the backlash was profoundly sexist and deeply overwrought, I also think that the gesture was kind of wrong-headed.
But I still love her. I still love her even though she frequently says and does things that miss the mark and even though I'm fairly certain she's a difficult person to know in real life.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:35 AM on May 21, 2021 [14 favorites]
Having said that, I think that ripping up the picture on SNL was probably the least interesting thing she did that year, and I also think it kind of missed the mark. The problem was the venue. It would have made sense to rip up a picture of the Pope and say "fight the real enemy" if she'd done it on Irish TV. In Ireland, there was basically no separation between church and state, and the Catholic Church, the Irish government, and the patriarchal family were completely bound up with each other. O'Connor is kind of the poster child for how this alliance led to abuse: her family situation was made much worse because her parents were unable to divorce when their marriage broke down, and she spent several years as a teenager in a Magdalene asylum, a Church-run workhouse for wayward girls and women. In Ireland, ripping up a picture of the Pope would clearly be a protest against the whole sordid patriarchal swamp that the country was for most of the 20th century, and "fight the real enemy" kind of makes sense in that context.
But she didn't rip up a picture of the Pope on Irish TV, and in the US, the Catholic Church didn't have the same status. It wasn't all-powerful. It didn't single-handedly dictate social policy. The government didn't outsource the punishment of teen shoplifters to Catholic workhouses. The American Catholic Church was powerful and patriarchal, but it was just one of a lot of powerful, patriarchal institutions. George W. Bush was a fundamentalist Protestant, not a Catholic, and that was true of many of the powerful patriarchs messing things up in the US. And in that context, singling out the Pope as "the real enemy" seemed like it was invoking a weird conspiracy theory. For older Catholics like Sinatra, it probably invoked a long history of anti-Catholic conspiracy theories in the US. So while the backlash was profoundly sexist and deeply overwrought, I also think that the gesture was kind of wrong-headed.
But I still love her. I still love her even though she frequently says and does things that miss the mark and even though I'm fairly certain she's a difficult person to know in real life.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:35 AM on May 21, 2021 [14 favorites]
One of the standout shows of my brief stint as a music critic was seeing her perform at Iceland Airwaves in 2011. I thought my review had disappeared from the internet, but a Sinead O’Connor fan site saved it, for which I’m glad.
She was one of the first contemporary musicians I knew about, and the first I can remember admiring as a person (as I go into in the review). I’m glad that she seems to be thriving.
posted by Kattullus at 8:24 AM on May 21, 2021
She was one of the first contemporary musicians I knew about, and the first I can remember admiring as a person (as I go into in the review). I’m glad that she seems to be thriving.
posted by Kattullus at 8:24 AM on May 21, 2021
I clearly remember the first appearances of both Prince and Sinéad O'Connor on Australian commercial music radio. Neither played the kind of music I was into at the time (prog or gtfo, essentially) but given the choice I would have paid to see that disconcerting, vulnerable, interesting woman over that overblown, self-important, tedious little poseur any day of the week.
Prince was constantly spruiked as "the next Jimi Hendrix" but he was nothing of the sort, and his automatic inclusion in so many people's lists of the greatest guitarists of all time continues to mystify me. Absolutely run-of-the-mill tryhard shredder, as far as I can tell. Flashy player, all tip and no iceberg. Complete absence of guts. Never heard him play anything that hasn't sounded better when delivered by somebody else, and that emphatically includes O'Connor.
When she says he terrified and hit her, I believe her. The man reeked of entitlement.
posted by flabdablet at 9:13 AM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
Prince was constantly spruiked as "the next Jimi Hendrix" but he was nothing of the sort, and his automatic inclusion in so many people's lists of the greatest guitarists of all time continues to mystify me. Absolutely run-of-the-mill tryhard shredder, as far as I can tell. Flashy player, all tip and no iceberg. Complete absence of guts. Never heard him play anything that hasn't sounded better when delivered by somebody else, and that emphatically includes O'Connor.
When she says he terrified and hit her, I believe her. The man reeked of entitlement.
posted by flabdablet at 9:13 AM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
It would have made sense to rip up a picture of the Pope and say "fight the real enemy" if she'd done it on Irish TV.
It was well covered in Ireland. I watched her rip up the photo of the pope (sitting beside my cheering mother) on Irish TV. I don't think it was any less impactful in Ireland because the original act was on SNL.
posted by roolya_boolya at 9:48 AM on May 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
It was well covered in Ireland. I watched her rip up the photo of the pope (sitting beside my cheering mother) on Irish TV. I don't think it was any less impactful in Ireland because the original act was on SNL.
posted by roolya_boolya at 9:48 AM on May 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
there aren’t a lot of black Catholics.
Well except for the Caribbean and a whole lot of Africa.
Yeah, and the more charitable reading is that I was speaking about black Americans, as the performance was on American TV.
New Orleans and Louisville, KY say hi. To name only two.
posted by Gelatin at 9:56 AM on May 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
Well except for the Caribbean and a whole lot of Africa.
Yeah, and the more charitable reading is that I was speaking about black Americans, as the performance was on American TV.
New Orleans and Louisville, KY say hi. To name only two.
posted by Gelatin at 9:56 AM on May 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
It would have made sense to rip up a picture of the Pope and say "fight the real enemy" if she'd done it on Irish TV.
Perhaps you missed the thousands of articles and films detailing the massive systematic cover-up of crimes against children by Catholic priests in the United States over the past 70 years.
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:59 AM on May 21, 2021 [14 favorites]
Perhaps you missed the thousands of articles and films detailing the massive systematic cover-up of crimes against children by Catholic priests in the United States over the past 70 years.
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:59 AM on May 21, 2021 [14 favorites]
The problem was the venue.
The venue brought Western-world-wide attention to her message, which an Irish venue would not have.
Somehow I never knew she was a victim of the laundries. Makes a lot of sense.
posted by praemunire at 11:39 AM on May 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
The venue brought Western-world-wide attention to her message, which an Irish venue would not have.
Somehow I never knew she was a victim of the laundries. Makes a lot of sense.
posted by praemunire at 11:39 AM on May 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
This is a sweet article that accepts Sinead O'Connor for where she's at in an unusual - for a newspaper - and for how public women are viewed - kind of way.
I love Lion and the Cobra, I have huge admiration for her ripping up the pope on TV, and I have no way to know the details of her relationship with Prince except to say that, despite my deep admiration for his incredible brilliance, he was a notorious dick so seems silly to dismiss claims about his behavior.
But having said all that, one thing the article discusses but doesn't exactly explore deeply is that she seems like she was also a complete dick and force for chaos to lots of people in her life, and so she's a polarizing person not just because of her 'controversial' (but admirable) radicalism, but also for being an asshole. With all the trauma and mental illness, it's no surprise she made mis-steps in her personal life, and given that those missteps don't harm me at all, I really admire the unusual perspective of this piece.
posted by latkes at 11:54 AM on May 21, 2021 [10 favorites]
I love Lion and the Cobra, I have huge admiration for her ripping up the pope on TV, and I have no way to know the details of her relationship with Prince except to say that, despite my deep admiration for his incredible brilliance, he was a notorious dick so seems silly to dismiss claims about his behavior.
But having said all that, one thing the article discusses but doesn't exactly explore deeply is that she seems like she was also a complete dick and force for chaos to lots of people in her life, and so she's a polarizing person not just because of her 'controversial' (but admirable) radicalism, but also for being an asshole. With all the trauma and mental illness, it's no surprise she made mis-steps in her personal life, and given that those missteps don't harm me at all, I really admire the unusual perspective of this piece.
posted by latkes at 11:54 AM on May 21, 2021 [10 favorites]
The SNL thing was an utterly transgressive moment. I it was a powerful statement , but the US TV audience lacked the context to understand. Even now people don’t know how the Church covered up not only sexual abuse but the starvation and abuse and secret burial of poor children. What Sinead knew about as an Irish woman was not yet knowledge in wide circulation - so it hit the audience like, WTF?it was massively transgressive. it's because of her, and watching her that night, that i found out what from what. i think in general americans thought: man, what a crazy, volatile irish woman. why would she do that?
and that's the problem. getting to 'why would she do that' and finding it easy to shrug, ignore, or dismiss. it revealed part of the national character. a bad part. about women and socio-political commentary.
a hero and a martyr and a lost soul, all at once.
posted by j_curiouser at 4:11 PM on May 21, 2021 [7 favorites]
I don't recall if I've written about this here, so forgive me if i have:
A few years back, my father was suffering from Congestive Heart Failure and was headed in for open heart surgery. He was already fairly weak and definitely well on in years, so they were giving him a 50/50 chance for his being strong enough to make it through the surgery, which would supposedly vastly improve his quality of life.
I was in my early 40s and we hadn't gotten along very well since before I was in HS. Things were slowly getting better because I had gone into "the family business" (stagehands/showbiz) so we had stories to trade and people in common to kibbitz about, but I didn't trust that his neverending anger was finally gone so I still kept my distance.
We talked it all out the day before his surgery, and I think we sort of finally settled things once and for all. I told him I had hated him for years because of how he treated me, he apologized and we both cried. He was never one to talk about his emotions or the past in any sort of "therapeutic" way to try to make things better, so it was a big deal.
He was very emotional in general at the time, for obvious reasons. I should also mention that he went to Catholic High School and then went on to Seminary School, in training to become a priest. He eventually dropped out of that but he was a hardcore churchgoer for a long time - once the child abuse scandals hit and he saw how the church was not protecting the weak but instead sheltering the powerful and the perpetrators he was very angry and stopped going altogether.
At the time he and I (atheist and Sinead fan) fell on vastly different sides of the spectrum after the SNL incident. He wasn't calling for her to be killed or anything, but was angry and couldn't believe she would do that.
But when he was 50/50 about being on his deathbed or on the cusp of a second lease on life, he started to cry. He said to me "I keep thinking about that bald woman on that show who ripped up a picture of the pope. Do you remember that? I can't stop thinking about how she was right, and that I wish everyone could know that. I just feel so bad for her, and so bad about how I was wrong and she was right." He understood the stranglehold his former church had on Ireland and how much evil they'd perpetrated on the land my family ultimately hails from, and he was heartbroken.
I can still get choked up thinking about it, and he's now gone just over two years. But facing death, he was thinking about Sinead O'Connor and how badly she was wronged. I think the fact that it was her mother's photo would really have blown his mind.
posted by nevercalm at 4:59 PM on May 21, 2021 [54 favorites]
A few years back, my father was suffering from Congestive Heart Failure and was headed in for open heart surgery. He was already fairly weak and definitely well on in years, so they were giving him a 50/50 chance for his being strong enough to make it through the surgery, which would supposedly vastly improve his quality of life.
I was in my early 40s and we hadn't gotten along very well since before I was in HS. Things were slowly getting better because I had gone into "the family business" (stagehands/showbiz) so we had stories to trade and people in common to kibbitz about, but I didn't trust that his neverending anger was finally gone so I still kept my distance.
We talked it all out the day before his surgery, and I think we sort of finally settled things once and for all. I told him I had hated him for years because of how he treated me, he apologized and we both cried. He was never one to talk about his emotions or the past in any sort of "therapeutic" way to try to make things better, so it was a big deal.
He was very emotional in general at the time, for obvious reasons. I should also mention that he went to Catholic High School and then went on to Seminary School, in training to become a priest. He eventually dropped out of that but he was a hardcore churchgoer for a long time - once the child abuse scandals hit and he saw how the church was not protecting the weak but instead sheltering the powerful and the perpetrators he was very angry and stopped going altogether.
At the time he and I (atheist and Sinead fan) fell on vastly different sides of the spectrum after the SNL incident. He wasn't calling for her to be killed or anything, but was angry and couldn't believe she would do that.
But when he was 50/50 about being on his deathbed or on the cusp of a second lease on life, he started to cry. He said to me "I keep thinking about that bald woman on that show who ripped up a picture of the pope. Do you remember that? I can't stop thinking about how she was right, and that I wish everyone could know that. I just feel so bad for her, and so bad about how I was wrong and she was right." He understood the stranglehold his former church had on Ireland and how much evil they'd perpetrated on the land my family ultimately hails from, and he was heartbroken.
I can still get choked up thinking about it, and he's now gone just over two years. But facing death, he was thinking about Sinead O'Connor and how badly she was wronged. I think the fact that it was her mother's photo would really have blown his mind.
posted by nevercalm at 4:59 PM on May 21, 2021 [54 favorites]
Yeah, and the more charitable reading is that I was speaking about black Americans, as the performance was on American TV.
Yeah, not to keep hashing this out, but if you live in/near NYC or any of the other places where there is a concentration of Black Catholics, you realize that they are here in great numbers, have been for decades (and in fact, for some, centuries,) and it really doesn't seem right to erase them.
posted by Miko at 8:09 PM on May 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yeah, not to keep hashing this out, but if you live in/near NYC or any of the other places where there is a concentration of Black Catholics, you realize that they are here in great numbers, have been for decades (and in fact, for some, centuries,) and it really doesn't seem right to erase them.
posted by Miko at 8:09 PM on May 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think there's a bit of a rhetorical ratchet or one-upmanship going on here.
A couple of nuances that I think interfered with her message as expressed in the US are a) the abuse was still quite under the radar here; and b) Catholics were famously disliked by the KKK.
While it wasn't the sum-total of the reaction that people would think to themselves "who is this foreign lady agreeing with the KKK about rumors," I think they combine to, let's say preserve question marks, about what the big deal is and where it's actually coming from. Plus, in the US you have to have much more power, power outside of the entertainment industry, to stick your neck out like that and be taken seriously.
posted by rhizome at 11:28 AM on May 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
A couple of nuances that I think interfered with her message as expressed in the US are a) the abuse was still quite under the radar here; and b) Catholics were famously disliked by the KKK.
While it wasn't the sum-total of the reaction that people would think to themselves "who is this foreign lady agreeing with the KKK about rumors," I think they combine to, let's say preserve question marks, about what the big deal is and where it's actually coming from. Plus, in the US you have to have much more power, power outside of the entertainment industry, to stick your neck out like that and be taken seriously.
posted by rhizome at 11:28 AM on May 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't consider her a lost soul.
A lot of sensitive, empathic beings end up on the street. Their ability to feel is, sometimes, too much. And there are few, if any people, they can talk to from this bandwith. Some attempt to do whatever it takes to fit it. They end up hating themselves for it.
My experiences being raised Catholic...
- As a five year old projecting so many stories on the imagery, statues and rituals
- Having a profound dream with Mary
- Beginning to see cracks. Priests who were alcoholic. Nuns who were just out and out mean. The
brutal hypocrisy of my own family and others
- Being an altar boy for a notorious
pedophile priest
- The slow creeping feeling that I was trapped and going nowhere.
- Stepping on stage, finding my voice, and realizing this was my only way out.
- Having a near death experience that made me realize if I don't "leave" now, I never will. I left my
family and the church.
I lived light and wandered for years, doing work that, in a sense, honored that dream of Mary and the good I took from the farm I was raised on. Throughout there were long bouts of depression, sense of having no "home", being an outlier as I "couldn't" be a part of the hypocrisy and cruelty I saw around me. I just knew I had a "voice"
When I found out that the pedophile priest had charges brought against. I was floored. I had no idea. I just knew that I didn't like him and he didn't like me. I wanted to scream at my family and say, "See? Now you know why I left"
The "crash" finally happened late 2015. A huge emotional loss happened. I couldn't stop screaming and crying, every thought I had had a chemical surge to it that I could feel and not stop. I thought of committing myself. I saw no life ahead of me. One evening I was mixing alcohol and medicine back and forth trying to stop the surges and get some sleep. I realized that this is how accidental suicides happened. That was a small turning point. I was desperate for certainty. To be a part of something. I reconnected with my family many years before. I did so on my terms. Because of what was going on, I began to "return' to them. I think the worst moment was when I went back for Christmas and slept in my old bedroom.
In 2019, I lived in a tent in someone's garage for five months. In August of last year, I spent two weeks on the street.
The voice is simple "How dare you. Who do you think you are" And when you fall, it's "see I told you so"
I can say now based on my past experiences that "I know what it is like to feel full and I know what it is like to feel empty" The place where you found your voice is where you want to be, here you are most comfortable, and feel most honest. It's easy for me to be on stage, to speak publicly without a script, without technique. In a YouTube clip I watched last night, Sinead spoke about how she was afraid that she would forget the words. That hit me. I am afraid that I have lost facility of thought.
The funny thing is is that I was never into her as an artist. The SNL experience angered me deeply as I already knew of the hypocrisy of the church. That how she was treated was so over the top and disgusting. As she struggled more and more over the decade, it always sounded that it was being done for publicity. Maybe I've lived in Hollywood too long. Then I had my experience.
I watched the motel video last night for the first time. I was horrified. I have a sense of those tears, pain, loss, wanting someone she could speak. If your voice is what you have, you put what your honesty out into the world. That is bravery and courage.
I then watched the post SNL, Madison Square Garden video and was stunned. The hypocrisy of the crowd, she standing them down, Kristofferson's support. My respect for that man today is off the charts. My respect for her too.
She is not a lost soul. She is just a stranger in a land of confusion.
Before my partner died, I would sit behind her in bed with my knees bent and feet apart, let her rest her back on my belly and breastbone and her head on my upper chest. Her body stretched out in front of me. My legs cradled her hips. I rested one hand on her heart and one had on her head. I did this because I knew she would then feel protected, touched, and cared for.
I do wish and want O'Conner to feel this. To be touched in a gentle, tender and heartfelt way
posted by goalyeehah at 9:38 PM on May 22, 2021 [10 favorites]
A lot of sensitive, empathic beings end up on the street. Their ability to feel is, sometimes, too much. And there are few, if any people, they can talk to from this bandwith. Some attempt to do whatever it takes to fit it. They end up hating themselves for it.
My experiences being raised Catholic...
- As a five year old projecting so many stories on the imagery, statues and rituals
- Having a profound dream with Mary
- Beginning to see cracks. Priests who were alcoholic. Nuns who were just out and out mean. The
brutal hypocrisy of my own family and others
- Being an altar boy for a notorious
pedophile priest
- The slow creeping feeling that I was trapped and going nowhere.
- Stepping on stage, finding my voice, and realizing this was my only way out.
- Having a near death experience that made me realize if I don't "leave" now, I never will. I left my
family and the church.
I lived light and wandered for years, doing work that, in a sense, honored that dream of Mary and the good I took from the farm I was raised on. Throughout there were long bouts of depression, sense of having no "home", being an outlier as I "couldn't" be a part of the hypocrisy and cruelty I saw around me. I just knew I had a "voice"
When I found out that the pedophile priest had charges brought against. I was floored. I had no idea. I just knew that I didn't like him and he didn't like me. I wanted to scream at my family and say, "See? Now you know why I left"
The "crash" finally happened late 2015. A huge emotional loss happened. I couldn't stop screaming and crying, every thought I had had a chemical surge to it that I could feel and not stop. I thought of committing myself. I saw no life ahead of me. One evening I was mixing alcohol and medicine back and forth trying to stop the surges and get some sleep. I realized that this is how accidental suicides happened. That was a small turning point. I was desperate for certainty. To be a part of something. I reconnected with my family many years before. I did so on my terms. Because of what was going on, I began to "return' to them. I think the worst moment was when I went back for Christmas and slept in my old bedroom.
In 2019, I lived in a tent in someone's garage for five months. In August of last year, I spent two weeks on the street.
The voice is simple "How dare you. Who do you think you are" And when you fall, it's "see I told you so"
I can say now based on my past experiences that "I know what it is like to feel full and I know what it is like to feel empty" The place where you found your voice is where you want to be, here you are most comfortable, and feel most honest. It's easy for me to be on stage, to speak publicly without a script, without technique. In a YouTube clip I watched last night, Sinead spoke about how she was afraid that she would forget the words. That hit me. I am afraid that I have lost facility of thought.
The funny thing is is that I was never into her as an artist. The SNL experience angered me deeply as I already knew of the hypocrisy of the church. That how she was treated was so over the top and disgusting. As she struggled more and more over the decade, it always sounded that it was being done for publicity. Maybe I've lived in Hollywood too long. Then I had my experience.
I watched the motel video last night for the first time. I was horrified. I have a sense of those tears, pain, loss, wanting someone she could speak. If your voice is what you have, you put what your honesty out into the world. That is bravery and courage.
I then watched the post SNL, Madison Square Garden video and was stunned. The hypocrisy of the crowd, she standing them down, Kristofferson's support. My respect for that man today is off the charts. My respect for her too.
She is not a lost soul. She is just a stranger in a land of confusion.
Before my partner died, I would sit behind her in bed with my knees bent and feet apart, let her rest her back on my belly and breastbone and her head on my upper chest. Her body stretched out in front of me. My legs cradled her hips. I rested one hand on her heart and one had on her head. I did this because I knew she would then feel protected, touched, and cared for.
I do wish and want O'Conner to feel this. To be touched in a gentle, tender and heartfelt way
posted by goalyeehah at 9:38 PM on May 22, 2021 [10 favorites]
Sinéad O’Connor on her teenage years: ‘I steal everything. I’m not a nice person. I’m trouble’ [Extract from Rememberings in the Irish Times, soft paywall]
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:38 AM on May 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:38 AM on May 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
and it really doesn't seem right to erase them.
I am black, and Catholic. It’s beyond me why you think I am erasing anyone.
posted by girlmightlive at 8:42 AM on May 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I am black, and Catholic. It’s beyond me why you think I am erasing anyone.
posted by girlmightlive at 8:42 AM on May 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
goalyeehah, thank you for bringing up the Madison Square Garden video. I watched it and also found it stunning. I'm a practicing Catholic, and her ripping up the Pope's picture just seemed like a silly adolescent stunt to me. This is a Pope who came close to dying after an attempted assassination and who met with and forgave his attacker - he did not need protection from a young girl tearing up his picture. I didn't realize then how much it cost her - and when she did it, I don't think she understood what it would cost either. At Madison Square Garden, she faced that cost bravely - it is clear how shaken she was, yet she stood in front of those people and sang. And then fell apart as soon as she was off the stage. That video is where I see true courage in her.
I have her CD of traditional Irish songs, Sean-Nos Nua, which is amazing.
posted by FencingGal at 9:05 AM on May 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have her CD of traditional Irish songs, Sean-Nos Nua, which is amazing.
posted by FencingGal at 9:05 AM on May 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
The opening line of the opening monologue of the following show was Joe Pesci saying, “She was very lucky it wasn't my show, because if it was my show, I would have gave her such a smack” to raucous applause.
Because I haven't seen it mentioned before, I'll mention this: I remember shortly after the SNL statement an episode of a case-of-the-week American TV police procedural, the name of which I've forgotten, which featured as the murder victim an obvious parody of O'Connor-- bald, Irish, dressed in white robes. At the beginning of the episode she says to the chief detective guy (all this played as humour, of course), "Don't you know that I was an abused child!" and said detective guy replies with a smirk, "Maybe your parents were onto something" (or words to that effect). In the next scene, the O'Connor look-alike is driving up the mountain singing along to Into the Mystic (of all things) when her car goes off the road. There's a distinct implication that it would be impossible to find whoever set up the accident because anyone in their right mind would have hated her and wished her dead. I was aghast. Imagine seeing that representation of yourself--though I have no idea if she did-- but that was how much she was scorned and belittled.
posted by jokeefe at 7:28 PM on May 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
Because I haven't seen it mentioned before, I'll mention this: I remember shortly after the SNL statement an episode of a case-of-the-week American TV police procedural, the name of which I've forgotten, which featured as the murder victim an obvious parody of O'Connor-- bald, Irish, dressed in white robes. At the beginning of the episode she says to the chief detective guy (all this played as humour, of course), "Don't you know that I was an abused child!" and said detective guy replies with a smirk, "Maybe your parents were onto something" (or words to that effect). In the next scene, the O'Connor look-alike is driving up the mountain singing along to Into the Mystic (of all things) when her car goes off the road. There's a distinct implication that it would be impossible to find whoever set up the accident because anyone in their right mind would have hated her and wished her dead. I was aghast. Imagine seeing that representation of yourself--though I have no idea if she did-- but that was how much she was scorned and belittled.
posted by jokeefe at 7:28 PM on May 24, 2021 [5 favorites]
Truly delighted to announce I've been hired by Alan English for the Irish Sunday Independent as a weekly diarist. A lifelong dream come true. I can finally tell my father I have a real job : ) Am due to start the first Sunday in July but will start sooner if I can.
Yaaaaaaay!!!
-- May 30 tweet, Sinead O'Connor (Shuhada Sadaqat) @MagdaDavitt77 (Thread reader link to single tweet)
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:56 PM on May 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
Yaaaaaaay!!!
-- May 30 tweet, Sinead O'Connor (Shuhada Sadaqat) @MagdaDavitt77 (Thread reader link to single tweet)
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:56 PM on May 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
Sinéad O’Connor Says She’s Retiring From Touring And Recording (Deadline, Jun. 5, 2021) The Irish singer-songwriter’s upcoming album, No Veteran Dies Alone, will be her final release, she said.
O'Connor made the announcement via Twitter:
This is to announce my retirement from touring and from working in the record business. I've gotten older and I'm tired. So it's time for me to hang up my nipple tassels, having truly given my all. NVDA in 2022 will be my last release. And there'll be no more touring or promo. -- June 4 tweet, Sinead O'Connor (Shuhada Sadaqat) @MagdaDavitt77
Apologies if any upset caused to booking agents or promoters or managers due to my tweeting about my retirement. I guess the book made me realise I'm my own boss. I didn't wanna wait for permission from the men, as to when I could announce it. Also, I'd had a few whiskeys : ) -- June 5 tweet, Sinead O'Connor (Shuhada Sadaqat) @MagdaDavitt77
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:11 PM on June 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
O'Connor made the announcement via Twitter:
This is to announce my retirement from touring and from working in the record business. I've gotten older and I'm tired. So it's time for me to hang up my nipple tassels, having truly given my all. NVDA in 2022 will be my last release. And there'll be no more touring or promo. -- June 4 tweet, Sinead O'Connor (Shuhada Sadaqat) @MagdaDavitt77
Apologies if any upset caused to booking agents or promoters or managers due to my tweeting about my retirement. I guess the book made me realise I'm my own boss. I didn't wanna wait for permission from the men, as to when I could announce it. Also, I'd had a few whiskeys : ) -- June 5 tweet, Sinead O'Connor (Shuhada Sadaqat) @MagdaDavitt77
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:11 PM on June 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
a double bill in 1990 Berlin, just after the wall came down - Sinead and Midnight Oil (Beds are Burning had just come out) - simply amazing - Pink Floyd were setting up to play "The Wall" the following week
That was Roger Waters plus many many guest stars, the Floyd having long since dissolved into acrimonious bickering over who got to keep the name; and I'll just drop Sinead's performance of Mother here because wow.
(There were technical problems on the night that the video covers up with footage from the previous night's rehearsal: the stage power went out towards the end of the song, and ISTR that she stumbled on one of the lyrics early in the song. Even so, even so; it was spine-tinging being in that crowd for that.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 8:04 PM on June 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
That was Roger Waters plus many many guest stars, the Floyd having long since dissolved into acrimonious bickering over who got to keep the name; and I'll just drop Sinead's performance of Mother here because wow.
(There were technical problems on the night that the video covers up with footage from the previous night's rehearsal: the stage power went out towards the end of the song, and ISTR that she stumbled on one of the lyrics early in the song. Even so, even so; it was spine-tinging being in that crowd for that.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 8:04 PM on June 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
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I'm trying to think of women solo singers who were big in the late 80s and early 90s and it seems like they were all treated horribly by the media. Only Celine Dion wasn't and she's royalty up here anyway. Imagine a show with a panel of Sinead O'Connor, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson, and Alanis Morissette, talking about how their press changed over time and how it affected them at the time and how it's changed them. You could have younger singers share their own experiences and show how things haven't really changed in the last 30 years.
*Did they actually play the national anthem at music concerts in the US? I've never heard it in Canada or Japan.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:30 PM on May 20, 2021 [5 favorites]